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These stats are all political. I dont trust either side. All i know is that when I walk into a CVS/Duane Reade in NYC, everything is locked up. Even the candy.

marcus0x62 3y ago
Why would CVS make it objectively more difficult to make a purchase if they didn’t have an earnestly held belief that the risk of theft outweighed the loss in sales of having everything “locked up”? In other words, what motive do retailers have to lie?
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  Thats my point, they might be saying one thing about shoplifting, but the locked up stores are telling a different story.
  - KerrAvon 3y ago
    being high on their own supply isn't a different story
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  Because there are dumb regional/store managers who took these now retracted statistics at face value?
  - wlesieutre 3y ago
    The store managers can’t compare how much inventory they ordered with got much of it was sold?
    - meepmorp 3y ago
      If you're really worried about this kind of thing, would you not take precautions to protect against it?
      - kristofferR 3y ago
        Because shopping for things behind plexiglass is such a major hassle that people won't bother purchasing at all? Time never moves slower than waiting for an indeterminate time, possibly forever, for someone to come to open the plexiglass for you, especially as you're not even sure the button you pressed to call for help even worked.
  - jonas21 3y ago
    The retracted statistics weren't about the total amount stolen. They were about the percentage stolen by organized retail theft rings. It still makes sense to lock up your inventory if you're seeing a high rate of theft, regardless of whether it's organized crime or not.
  - marcus0x62 3y ago
    Store Managers at retail chains are not buying locked cabinets for their stores. That decision is being made for them.
- oivey 3y ago
  Their businesses are failing because they’re mismanaged and online retailers are putting them out of business. Blaming a made up retail theft boogeyman distracts from their incompetence and hopefully keeps stock prices and golden parachutes up a little longer.
  - marcus0x62 3y ago
    Yes, it is a massive conspiracy to detract from…checks notes… recent losses from online retailers. Yeah, that’s it.
    - oivey 3y ago
      No, it isn’t a massive conspiracy. A handful of executives decided to score some political points by publicizing a demonstrably farcical narrative around organized retail theft.
- pfisherman 3y ago
  This is what I wonder about. Locking items behind glass has to have some second order effects? When Target started locking toothpaste and laundry detergent behind glass, I stopped going to that store entirely. They lost the sale of whole basket of goods to prevent shrinkage of one item! When I see this I can’t help but think that these big box retailers are in a death spiral.
fo76yo 3y ago
CVS leadership are influenced by BS assertions of data scientists. Ground truth doesn’t matter to upper management living across the globe from the problem. Onsite management is handed a recipe to implement, told someone is showing up to install locks in everything to, not because a specific store might need it but to normalize business operations with their paranoia.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  You think CVS doesnt have granular numbers on shoplifting? What planet are you living on. Whether they report those publicly is another story
  - fo76yo 3y ago
    Doesn’t matter. They want to normalize employee and customer experience. Think I’ll go with the anecdotes of my friends who managed retail locations for big box stores rather than an HN rando with a confrontational rhetorical style, as if projection is correctness Your experience is a reflection of their desire to normalize rather than customize Data is only useful to a point. Generate all the stats you want. Millions of other stats attenuate the usefulness of any given stat, except for those of broad application. Getting super granular is programming equivalent of bike shedding and yak shaving.
    - marcus0x62 3y ago
      What point are you trying to make? What anecdotes have your totally-legit-retail friends shared that are relevant to this discussion?
      - fo76yo 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - chimeracoder 3y ago
    > You think CVS doesnt have granular numbers on shoplifting? Take a look at what CVS disclosed in official shareholder reports > Whether they report those publicly is another story Well, no, if they have evidence of a massive material increase in organized shoplifting and don't disclose that, it's securities fraud. Conversely, if they make false material claims in direct shareholder reports, that's also fraud.
chimeracoder 3y ago
> All i know is that when I walk into a CVS/Duane Reade in NYC, everything is locked up. Even the candy. Who do you think the NRF consists of? The fact that Duane Reade locks everything up now isn't evidence of anything; the people making those decisions are by definition the same ones influencing the NRF.
AvAn12 3y ago
NYC resident here. Not sure where you are spending time, but I have not seen anything like that where I live and work: Midtown, upper west, upper east, greenwich village, Chelsea, Brooklyn.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  Greenwhich village on Broadway, Midtown/all over Chelsea, am in these areas daily
- BowBun 3y ago
  Just the 'nice parts', then? I'm down in South Brooklyn and the Walgreens has most of the pricier beauty products (and much more) locked up.
  - turquoisevar 3y ago
    GP was talking about “everything” being locked up, down to “the candy”. Does the Walgreens you’re talking about lock up everything, including the candy? If so, what’s it like at that store. Does every patron get a personal chaperone or is the store filled with patrons waiting for an associate who does the rounds to show up?
    - BowBun 3y ago
      Most if not all (the candy doesn't get stolen) the shelves have plexiglass, and there's buzzers placed every so often on the shelves. When you want someone, you press the buzzer and wait (usually pretty long) as they find you and open up the case. Repeat for multiple shelves. Also take into account that they downsized staff in all of these places, so sometimes it's literally the cashier that has to run up to the shelves. It's awful and the main reason I just stopped going and Amazon Prime everything now.
yieldcrv 3y ago
yeah, its lame. and its actually really annoying when its just lotion, hygienics, combs and I'm like "oooooooh its stuff homeless people of color need" but inconveniences people that are not stealing but have same hair and skin considerations
- manderley 3y ago
  Seems unlikely shops are locking up items to inconvenience people of a specific skin type.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    right, its things people of color are stealing or fencing for people of color, and its still a lame user experience to be inconvenienced by a corporate response in that specific way its obviously just a stop gap solution to exiting the market entirely since these stores no longer operate in a market based economy where property rights are enforced, so just close up instead of operating a crippled store hanging on by a thread, inconveniencing random swaths of their remaining customers just because an excel spreadsheet said so
ErasticBrub 3y ago
[flagged]
- fnordian_slip 3y ago
  I'm aware that we should steelman other viewpoints here on hn, but I have difficulty finding a non-racist interpretation of "shoplifters steal all kinds of stuff but not sunscreen" (Maybe if you think most thieves are goths, but that's a bit of an extreme stretch). Could you maybe clarify?
  - ErasticBrub 3y ago
    [dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

marcus0x62 3y ago

Why would CVS make it objectively more difficult to make a purchase if they didn’t have an earnestly held belief that the risk of theft outweighed the loss in sales of having everything “locked up”? In other words, what motive do retailers have to lie?

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
Thats my point, they might be saying one thing about shoplifting, but the locked up stores are telling a different story.
- KerrAvon 3y ago
  being high on their own supply isn't a different story
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
Because there are dumb regional/store managers who took these now retracted statistics at face value?
- wlesieutre 3y ago
  The store managers can’t compare how much inventory they ordered with got much of it was sold?
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    If you're really worried about this kind of thing, would you not take precautions to protect against it?
    - kristofferR 3y ago
      Because shopping for things behind plexiglass is such a major hassle that people won't bother purchasing at all? Time never moves slower than waiting for an indeterminate time, possibly forever, for someone to come to open the plexiglass for you, especially as you're not even sure the button you pressed to call for help even worked.
- jonas21 3y ago
  The retracted statistics weren't about the total amount stolen. They were about the percentage stolen by organized retail theft rings. It still makes sense to lock up your inventory if you're seeing a high rate of theft, regardless of whether it's organized crime or not.
- marcus0x62 3y ago
  Store Managers at retail chains are not buying locked cabinets for their stores. That decision is being made for them.
oivey 3y ago
Their businesses are failing because they’re mismanaged and online retailers are putting them out of business. Blaming a made up retail theft boogeyman distracts from their incompetence and hopefully keeps stock prices and golden parachutes up a little longer.
- marcus0x62 3y ago
  Yes, it is a massive conspiracy to detract from…checks notes… recent losses from online retailers. Yeah, that’s it.
  - oivey 3y ago
    No, it isn’t a massive conspiracy. A handful of executives decided to score some political points by publicizing a demonstrably farcical narrative around organized retail theft.
pfisherman 3y ago
This is what I wonder about. Locking items behind glass has to have some second order effects? When Target started locking toothpaste and laundry detergent behind glass, I stopped going to that store entirely. They lost the sale of whole basket of goods to prevent shrinkage of one item! When I see this I can’t help but think that these big box retailers are in a death spiral.

fo76yo 3y ago

CVS leadership are influenced by BS assertions of data scientists. Ground truth doesn’t matter to upper management living across the globe from the problem. Onsite management is handed a recipe to implement, told someone is showing up to install locks in everything to, not because a specific store might need it but to normalize business operations with their paranoia.

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
You think CVS doesnt have granular numbers on shoplifting? What planet are you living on. Whether they report those publicly is another story
- fo76yo 3y ago
  Doesn’t matter. They want to normalize employee and customer experience. Think I’ll go with the anecdotes of my friends who managed retail locations for big box stores rather than an HN rando with a confrontational rhetorical style, as if projection is correctness Your experience is a reflection of their desire to normalize rather than customize Data is only useful to a point. Generate all the stats you want. Millions of other stats attenuate the usefulness of any given stat, except for those of broad application. Getting super granular is programming equivalent of bike shedding and yak shaving.
  - marcus0x62 3y ago
    What point are you trying to make? What anecdotes have your totally-legit-retail friends shared that are relevant to this discussion?
    - fo76yo 3y ago
      [flagged]
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > You think CVS doesnt have granular numbers on shoplifting? Take a look at what CVS disclosed in official shareholder reports > Whether they report those publicly is another story Well, no, if they have evidence of a massive material increase in organized shoplifting and don't disclose that, it's securities fraud. Conversely, if they make false material claims in direct shareholder reports, that's also fraud.

chimeracoder 3y ago

> All i know is that when I walk into a CVS/Duane Reade in NYC, everything is locked up. Even the candy. Who do you think the NRF consists of? The fact that Duane Reade locks everything up now isn't evidence of anything; the people making those decisions are by definition the same ones influencing the NRF.

AvAn12 3y ago

NYC resident here. Not sure where you are spending time, but I have not seen anything like that where I live and work: Midtown, upper west, upper east, greenwich village, Chelsea, Brooklyn.

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
Greenwhich village on Broadway, Midtown/all over Chelsea, am in these areas daily
BowBun 3y ago
Just the 'nice parts', then? I'm down in South Brooklyn and the Walgreens has most of the pricier beauty products (and much more) locked up.
- turquoisevar 3y ago
  GP was talking about “everything” being locked up, down to “the candy”. Does the Walgreens you’re talking about lock up everything, including the candy? If so, what’s it like at that store. Does every patron get a personal chaperone or is the store filled with patrons waiting for an associate who does the rounds to show up?
  - BowBun 3y ago
    Most if not all (the candy doesn't get stolen) the shelves have plexiglass, and there's buzzers placed every so often on the shelves. When you want someone, you press the buzzer and wait (usually pretty long) as they find you and open up the case. Repeat for multiple shelves. Also take into account that they downsized staff in all of these places, so sometimes it's literally the cashier that has to run up to the shelves. It's awful and the main reason I just stopped going and Amazon Prime everything now.

yieldcrv 3y ago

yeah, its lame. and its actually really annoying when its just lotion, hygienics, combs and I'm like "oooooooh its stuff homeless people of color need" but inconveniences people that are not stealing but have same hair and skin considerations

manderley 3y ago
Seems unlikely shops are locking up items to inconvenience people of a specific skin type.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  right, its things people of color are stealing or fencing for people of color, and its still a lame user experience to be inconvenienced by a corporate response in that specific way its obviously just a stop gap solution to exiting the market entirely since these stores no longer operate in a market based economy where property rights are enforced, so just close up instead of operating a crippled store hanging on by a thread, inconveniencing random swaths of their remaining customers just because an excel spreadsheet said so

ErasticBrub 3y ago

[flagged]

fnordian_slip 3y ago
I'm aware that we should steelman other viewpoints here on hn, but I have difficulty finding a non-racist interpretation of "shoplifters steal all kinds of stuff but not sunscreen" (Maybe if you think most thieves are goths, but that's a bit of an extreme stretch). Could you maybe clarify?
- ErasticBrub 3y ago
  [dead]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]