6 ms·

In a way I understand why, however I still am always perplexed when a "we are kaput" announcement drowns the message in praise for all the amazing super awesome

by samhuk 3y ago

In a way I understand why, however I still am always perplexed when a "we are kaput" announcement drowns the message in praise for all the amazing super awesome they have done whilst not including a single character as to why, uh, perhaps the entire company/project/venture is ceasing. To me, it only communicates that the issues were embarrassing, inconvenient, or otherwise do not shine a good light. Am I reading too much into this, or does this kind of pithy announcement usually hide skeletons? Genuinely curious here.

ska 3y ago
No knowledge of the specifics here, but usually the underlying cause is the same: we are running out of money, the business model doesn't work, and we don't have enough time, ideas or both to try anything else - at least no with any confidence of success.
- samhuk 3y ago
  I wouldn't expect such a sudden death from "business plan just didn't work out" though. Take Docker for example. Curious. Competition perhaps?
  - zinekeller 3y ago
    Side-effects of higher interest rates are usually drying up of "easy money" (low-cost loans). Combined with the fact that VCs had a sudden shift (due to the loss of "easy money") and are now actually evaluating whether a startup is actually viable before committing funding to it, it is not surprising that investors demand existing companies that are no longer viable to orderly wind up in order to have some money than the real possibility of losing it all. Docker is different: it has a name already so it can bleed a lot of money (à la Twitter while it was a public company) and there is generally a significant holding in large enterprises. I'm guessing that Notable didn't have significant notable enterprises using it that will make investors more relaxed with their red sheets.
  - Kye 3y ago
    It's hard to accept something you've poured your life into and had such high hopes for isn't working out. This is why every company that gets bought has an optimistic blog post talking about how they can finally get things done with the support of the acquiring company. They really believe it. They just proved it's nonviable, and they still believe they'll be able to keep trying.
    - ska 3y ago
      It's not accurate that every company that is acquired is non-viable. For example sometimes it's more about timelines because building your viable business into a different kind of business will take a lot longer than you are up for. Sometimes it's because the principals are more interested in doing something else, etc.
  - ska 3y ago
    You are assuming it is sudden on the inside, because it was looks that way from the outside. It usually isn't.
    - justinpombrio 3y ago
      Yeah: what's the alternative? September, 2023 -- Notable.io announces one of its primary investors is pulling out. October, 2023 -- Notable.io announces it failed to raise as much as it hoped for in its latest fundraising round. November, 2023 -- Notable.io announces "Oh uh, we're running out of money. Someone come invest in us, quick!" December, 2023 -- Notable.io is shutting down.
  - nkrisc 3y ago
    Is it sudden? Most business aren’t advertising the fact they’re slowly failing.
irjustin 3y ago
> To me, it only communicates that the issues were embarrassing, inconvenient, or otherwise do not shine a good light. > Am I reading too much into this, or does this kind of pithy announcement usually hide skeletons? Genuinely curious here. This line of thinking bothers me. It reads as if you feel like you're owed something from the company. Why does it matter? If it's fundraising issues, lack of product market fit, founder disputes, team member stole the entire bank account, the end result is the same. They can't run the business. As long as there's a clear message and a path to EOL for active customers, what possible reason could help? To me, it actually highlights the praise of the team and the products they built together instead of focusing on the details of why they're no longer operable. And reading the other threads here, they did a great job but there simply wasn't large enough captive market.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  > It reads as if you feel like you're owed something from the company. Why does it matter? You paid them money and trusted them with your data. Any usage on your part is an investment in the company. Of course you would feel entitled to know why they are ceasing effective immediately
  - dangus 3y ago
    Not an investment, an exchange of goods and services. I’m not owed explanation if my local gas station closes down and I bought a tank of gas from them the day before.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      A subscription is different from a one-off exchange. The expectation is for it to continue.
      - dangus 3y ago
        Tell that to my local newspaper. Most things come to an end at some point.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jzb 3y ago
You’re not entitled to see the skeletons. The people shutting down their business owe their customers a notice. They don’t owe the world an exposé of their (possible) flaws. A business can fail just because it’s the wrong time or they were unlucky or many other reasons. If the issues were embarrassing? They don’t owe you those details.
- galaxyLogic 3y ago
  Right. Maybe the reason they failed is they priced their product too low. Maybe they were too altruistic. It would be nice to know why some businesses succeed while others fail. If I knew that I guess I would be rich.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  They're not asking to see the skeletons. They're trying to figure out if skeletons actually are likely, or if the phrasing is motivated by some weird fear of saying the business model failed and ran out of money. And it's more about this type of announcement in general than this specific business.
Hnrobert42 3y ago
Having been around when one of these was written, it could be: - this is a very difficult time emotionally for the author, so they aren’t thinking entirely rationally - the author is exhausted - the author is ashamed/embarrassed about having lost money for all their friends and family - they don’t want to expose themselves to liability - the message was vetted by a risk averse lawyer, aka a lawyer - the message has to satisfy a bunch of different audiences, so it is generic - it is almost an afterthought amongst all the other stuff that has to get done shutting down the business And most importantly, they may not explain why the business failed because they don’t really know. If they knew why they didn’t find product market fit, the business wouldn’t have failed.
- galaxyLogic 3y ago
  If they truly know why they failed, that would be valuable information, which they are not required to share with anybody. If you know why something fails it is the mirror image of why something succeeds. Valuable information.
phoenixstir 3y ago
I followed this company since there beginnings out of Netflix. The original founder Michelle Ufford left with no detail and no explanation. I'll bet there's more to dig into.

by samhuk 3y ago

ska 3y ago

No knowledge of the specifics here, but usually the underlying cause is the same: we are running out of money, the business model doesn't work, and we don't have enough time, ideas or both to try anything else - at least no with any confidence of success.

samhuk 3y ago
I wouldn't expect such a sudden death from "business plan just didn't work out" though. Take Docker for example. Curious. Competition perhaps?
- zinekeller 3y ago
  Side-effects of higher interest rates are usually drying up of "easy money" (low-cost loans). Combined with the fact that VCs had a sudden shift (due to the loss of "easy money") and are now actually evaluating whether a startup is actually viable before committing funding to it, it is not surprising that investors demand existing companies that are no longer viable to orderly wind up in order to have some money than the real possibility of losing it all. Docker is different: it has a name already so it can bleed a lot of money (à la Twitter while it was a public company) and there is generally a significant holding in large enterprises. I'm guessing that Notable didn't have significant notable enterprises using it that will make investors more relaxed with their red sheets.
- Kye 3y ago
  It's hard to accept something you've poured your life into and had such high hopes for isn't working out. This is why every company that gets bought has an optimistic blog post talking about how they can finally get things done with the support of the acquiring company. They really believe it. They just proved it's nonviable, and they still believe they'll be able to keep trying.
  - ska 3y ago
    It's not accurate that every company that is acquired is non-viable. For example sometimes it's more about timelines because building your viable business into a different kind of business will take a lot longer than you are up for. Sometimes it's because the principals are more interested in doing something else, etc.
- ska 3y ago
  You are assuming it is sudden on the inside, because it was looks that way from the outside. It usually isn't.
  - justinpombrio 3y ago
    Yeah: what's the alternative? September, 2023 -- Notable.io announces one of its primary investors is pulling out. October, 2023 -- Notable.io announces it failed to raise as much as it hoped for in its latest fundraising round. November, 2023 -- Notable.io announces "Oh uh, we're running out of money. Someone come invest in us, quick!" December, 2023 -- Notable.io is shutting down.
- nkrisc 3y ago
  Is it sudden? Most business aren’t advertising the fact they’re slowly failing.

irjustin 3y ago

> To me, it only communicates that the issues were embarrassing, inconvenient, or otherwise do not shine a good light. > Am I reading too much into this, or does this kind of pithy announcement usually hide skeletons? Genuinely curious here. This line of thinking bothers me. It reads as if you feel like you're owed something from the company. Why does it matter? If it's fundraising issues, lack of product market fit, founder disputes, team member stole the entire bank account, the end result is the same. They can't run the business. As long as there's a clear message and a path to EOL for active customers, what possible reason could help? To me, it actually highlights the praise of the team and the products they built together instead of focusing on the details of why they're no longer operable. And reading the other threads here, they did a great job but there simply wasn't large enough captive market.

Aeolun 3y ago
> It reads as if you feel like you're owed something from the company. Why does it matter? You paid them money and trusted them with your data. Any usage on your part is an investment in the company. Of course you would feel entitled to know why they are ceasing effective immediately
- dangus 3y ago
  Not an investment, an exchange of goods and services. I’m not owed explanation if my local gas station closes down and I bought a tank of gas from them the day before.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    A subscription is different from a one-off exchange. The expectation is for it to continue.
    - dangus 3y ago
      Tell that to my local newspaper. Most things come to an end at some point.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jzb 3y ago

You’re not entitled to see the skeletons. The people shutting down their business owe their customers a notice. They don’t owe the world an exposé of their (possible) flaws. A business can fail just because it’s the wrong time or they were unlucky or many other reasons. If the issues were embarrassing? They don’t owe you those details.

galaxyLogic 3y ago
Right. Maybe the reason they failed is they priced their product too low. Maybe they were too altruistic. It would be nice to know why some businesses succeed while others fail. If I knew that I guess I would be rich.
Dylan16807 3y ago
They're not asking to see the skeletons. They're trying to figure out if skeletons actually are likely, or if the phrasing is motivated by some weird fear of saying the business model failed and ran out of money. And it's more about this type of announcement in general than this specific business.

Hnrobert42 3y ago

Having been around when one of these was written, it could be: - this is a very difficult time emotionally for the author, so they aren’t thinking entirely rationally - the author is exhausted - the author is ashamed/embarrassed about having lost money for all their friends and family - they don’t want to expose themselves to liability - the message was vetted by a risk averse lawyer, aka a lawyer - the message has to satisfy a bunch of different audiences, so it is generic - it is almost an afterthought amongst all the other stuff that has to get done shutting down the business And most importantly, they may not explain why the business failed because they don’t really know. If they knew why they didn’t find product market fit, the business wouldn’t have failed.

galaxyLogic 3y ago
If they truly know why they failed, that would be valuable information, which they are not required to share with anybody. If you know why something fails it is the mirror image of why something succeeds. Valuable information.

phoenixstir 3y ago

I followed this company since there beginnings out of Netflix. The original founder Michelle Ufford left with no detail and no explanation. I'll bet there's more to dig into.