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When Google Fiber abandons your city as a failed experiment (2019)
- kyrra 3y agoRelated article from the time: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/04/google-fiber-exits-louisville-pays-city-3-8m-to-clean-up-the-mess-it-left/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/04/googl... Google paid the city $3.8M to the city, for the city to clean up the mess themselves.
- WorldMaker 3y agoThat hush money didn't cover how much the tax payers wound up paying for the whole mess. Keep in mind, too, that was also after the city spent a lot of money prosecuting a One Touch Make Ready law through multiple layers of federal courts against AT&T and Spectrum and its own electrical company. (That was supposed to have been the real experiment, if a city could take back a lot of the red tape on its electrical poles. The city won and instead of using just about "blank check" access to city electrical poles, Google Fiber decided to do something much dumber.)
- js2 3y agoSummary: Google tried to "nano"-trench Louisville, KY using 2" deep trenches (by comparison micro-trenching is typically 6" deep) then use epoxy to cover the trench. The epoxy didn't stand up to tires. Google tried to replace the epoxy with asphalt but that damaged the fiber. Google determined at that point that nano-trenching wouldn't work and didn't want to spend additional money to remedy the situation, so they abandoned Louisville. My story in NC: Aug 2015: Google Fiber sent me a T-shirt promising Fiber would be available soon! Jan 2017: AT&T Fiber available to my address. $70/month for 1 Gbps. Aug 2023: Google Fiber finally available at my address. $70/mo for 1 Gbps, $100/mo for 2 Gbps. So yeah, Google got AT&T to get off their butts, but it took Google 8 years to get to my address. Meanwhile, AT&T is still $70/mo, includes HBO (er, Max), and is reliable, so I don't really have any reason to switch. That said, I'm considering having GF installed anyway as long as they're in the neighborhood and running dual-WAN for a while. I can always cancel it and then my home is setup for both ISPs.
- bruce511 3y agoI'm not in the US, but in my country the fibre-provider and the ISP are unrelated companies. There are multiple fibre companies (typically an area is served by one or another of them although my area has two) and of course a couple dozen ISPs that do the ISP part. This model works -really- well. ISPs compete on price, and service. Fibre folks do the physical stuff. Fibre companies are incentivised to get rolled out in an area first. ISPs can scale up without having to raise huge capital. And the roadside only gets dug up once (mostly the fibre is buried, although some makes use of existing pole infrastructure. ) It's one of those (rare?) cases where good regulation, and a free market collide, and the result us that everyone has fibre. I say this not to gloat, but rather to show that it can be beneficial to separate access from service for best customer service. [1] my first ISP went under. I switched to a new ISP within an hour after the cause of the outage was understood. [2] a couple of outages have been ascribed to the fibre provider, the ISP escalates those for me, and have been rectified within the hour. Who knew competition could lead to such good customer service...
- aednichols 3y agoExcuse my ignorance, but at that point what does the ISP actually do other than send bills to customers and pay invoices for fiber plant and upstream bandwidth?
- monocasa 3y agoPeer in the internet.
- watson 3y agoThe ISP sets up rack-cabinets full of equipment in central buildings where the “last mile” fiber terminates, close to the neighborhoods that they service. Each ISP that provides service to the area needs to have their own equipment there. This is how they differentiate and how one ISP can do 1Gbps while another might be able to do 2Gbps. Simply because they have installed different equipment. The fiber itself can of course support much more
- stephenr 3y agoGiven their penchant for abandoning things on a whim, I never really understood why people would ever choose to use a service like this, from Google.
- Dylan16807 3y agoI can get new internet service easily enough, and it'll come with a sign-up bonus. So if one service has significant advantages, I'll switch. Even if it might not last a long time.
- amf12 3y agoBecause it got other providers to get off their butts. Besides, it's relatively easy to switch providers anyway (where available). I don't understand why people are scared of using services that have relatively low switching barriers, because they may be shut down one day. I've used so many services over the years - big tech and from start ups that I've since moved form because they closed down or remained stagnant over better alternatives, and I never had to give it a second thought.
- stephenr 3y ago> I don't understand why people are scared of using services that have relatively low switching barriers, because they may be shut down one day. This suggests there's alternative services available anyway, so why take the risk on Google at all?
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoWhat exactly do you think is the "risk" of going with Google in these situations as a consumer? I know people who have Google Fiber, and love it - super fast Internet at reasonable prices. If it got turned off, they would just go with someone else. What exactly do you think the downside is? As a municipality, sure, as the article explains. But as an end consumer, what's the problem?
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- ChrisArchitect 3y agoThen: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392404
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoI had Google Fiber installed in my crapbox Barton Hills duplex (Austin, Texas)... I want to say 2015? It was cool, a then-neat-gimmick that I had to wait years for installation. I now have Chattanooga's public utility fiber, provided by the local electricity provider (EPBfiber, part of the electric fiber board) to EVERY SINGLE ADDRESS SERVICED BY THE POWER COMPANY. The latter scenario is SO MUCH BETTER that the state of Tennessee effectively has banned [still cat-and-mouse] other cities from implementing Chattanooga's beloved solution to broadband infrastructure AS A RIGHT. I do not even know why Comcast/AT&T/etc. even send out advertisements when nobody in their right mind would choose anything other than the city-provided publicly-subsidized internet. <3 from Not Your Electrician
- anigbrowl 3y agothe state of Tennessee effectively has banned [still cat-and-mouse] other cities from implementing Chattanooga's beloved solution It's bleakly hilarious that politicians of a certain stripe fall over themselves to pass laws against policies that deliver value to the public.
- kortilla 3y agoFree market proponents don’t want the government competing with industry. It’s not that surprising
- sofixa 3y agoIf the government can provide a better and cheaper service, what exactly is the problem? The free market will decide if the government's competition makes sense.
- kortilla 3y agoThis is fine as long as: - the government doesn’t use any tax revenue to do this nor impose any debt on the government - the government doesn’t get any special privileges for access to lay fiber Then it’s no different than a regular competitor. This is often not the case though and it makes it very difficult for anyone to compete.
- hipadev23 3y agoI'm utterly shocked that once again Google half-assed a product and then completely abandoned it.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoAnother one: Mountain View's Google Public WiFi was never usable by anyone for anything.
- lstamour 3y agoIn their defense, I don’t actually know of any municipal-scale outdoor wifi project that was a success, though I’d love to hear about it.
- paradox460 3y agoLayton, UT has a fairly widespread public wifi system, called Layton Lightspeed. It's pretty speedy, for a muni wifi. https://www.deseret.com/2014/5/20/20541836/wi-fi-available-at-layton-parks https://www.deseret.com/2014/5/20/20541836/wi-fi-available-a...
- AlexAndScripts 3y agoBrisbane seems to be decent.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- walrus01 3y agoAnyone who knows outside plant fiber could have told you this was a recipe for disaster. The only way to "micro trench" fiber that will last is using a big-ass diamond bladed wet saw, like 10 to 12 inches down and then fill the slot with proper concrete/pavement grouting. NOT two inches down and filled with black rubber stuff. Vancouver BC has an extensive microtrenched fiber network in the busy downtown core, crossing many roads, and it's relatively trouble free.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoIt's exactly how a know-nothing MBA would create a broadband network. I've seen proper trenching with a 30" diamond saw the last bit from a telephone pole to a commercial building. The fiber ran as far as it could using public right-of-way to save installation labor costs.
- ivolimmen 3y agoWhy would you not put the cable under the ground? I understand that this is more cost effective.. in the SHORT RUN. Currently (I am Dutch) Odido (former T-Mobile) is planning to ship fiber in my town (23.000 people) where it will take 2 to 3 month before it is at my door. Every cable goes under the ground. I even know that in the Netherlands the ones that dig cables have an app that tells them what they can find under the ground at what level and what type. They are also required to tell where they are laying the cable, how deep and what type of cable it is. We might have a lot of weird rules but this for sure it better than this...
- daanluttik 3y agoWait, there are still places here in the Netherlands without gigabit fiber... Or are you just very brand-loyal to tmobile?
- ivolimmen 3y agoPlenty places to not have fiber. I am using Ziggo (cable) with 600Mbit down and 60Mbit up. It's sufficient but since they have a monopoly they can set the price however they want. I can lower my cost by switching over to Odido with 1Gbit fiber (up and down) for €30 less a month...
- 1letterunixname 3y agoSummary: Google isn't really a business, it's a confederation of dilettante, temporary experiments only interested in the paths of least resistance. I'm curious if anyone knows why there is a GF dead zone in Austin downtown except for the Google offices and a few other buildings. It's bounded by N Lamar to the west, W 30th to the north, I-35 to the east, and the Colorado to the south. Taxes? Permit $? Laziness? 2 Gbps GF ATX customer here. It takes under a week to activate. They have 5 Gbps now but I don't see the point. $70 1 G, $100 2 G, and $125 5 G. If GF goes under, there's always Spectrum who sends me 5 junkmail ads a week for their overpriced offering.
- bitcharmer 3y agoGoogle abandoning their service and its users? This can't be!
- Uptrenda 3y agoIt's okay guys, Google is only a small startup so you can't really fault them for not having the money to fix things.
- SilverBirch 3y agoThis is always quite an interesting dynamic in local government. It's the nature of the US that there's always going to be some mid sized city run by idiots and big corporations can just shop around to see who they can take advantage of. If you strip away the brand name this is just a city agreeing to install an incredibly sub-standard local utility. But it's cheaper! Yes, because it's bad! All the other people digging deep trenches aren't idiots, they're building out the infrastructure to a spec where it will actually be maintainable.
- aurelien 3y agoAnd so the man who does not make works is brain lost his place? “It is such a shame to think that we wouldn’t be having any of this conversation if they would have dug their little holes two inches deeper,” Coan said. Alphabet the Clown compagny!
- classified 3y agoAll of Google is a failed experiment. It's only a question of time.