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I didn’t know they have that many people (9000) to work for a single product. I’ve been a subscriber for more than 5 years and the app on the iPhone just gets w

I didn’t know they have that many people (9000) to work for a single product. I’ve been a subscriber for more than 5 years and the app on the iPhone just gets worse everyday. Why? - daily updates is gone. This is where I can get a snapshot of all new releases from artists I love. I’m not sure if Release Calendar is the new one but I don’t bother to check. - I listen to classical and the song title naming is just subpar. For example, “Well-tempered Clavier, Book 1, J.S Bach, Angela Hewitt, Prelude in C Major is too long to be in the title. Especially, the rat if the album is just a repeat alternate between prelude or fugue and the chord. - recently play list stopped syncing between my phone and my desktop app after 2022 for some reason. Is it a bug or they just stop doing this since it costs more to sync? I probably won’t switch to a different stream service for now as there is not much differences for me to migrate.

fennecbutt 3y ago
They keep changing the design of the app for the worse, just nonsensical stuff. Like how many UX design people do they have? Cause clearly they're just changing stuff to make themselves feel useful. The heart changing to a plus, what the fuck Spotify?
mdhen 3y ago
I can reccomend deezer. I switched away from spotify last year and ended up trying like 5 different options before settling on deezer. No complaints, great quality streams (lossless), can upload your own songs and their recommendations system is really good.
neycoda 3y ago
It's called "maximizing profit" "for the shareholders" by "saving money". They consider their workforce a liability and expense instead of an investment and necessary for quality and competitiveness. They're just cutting into their workforce to impress investors to bilk more money out of them. It's a sick philosophy for short-term gain that will ultimately destroy the company.
renegade-otter 3y ago
It's hundreds of "microservices". That's why they created Backstage. You just need that many people if you are going to go that route. Unfortunately for them, once the economy goes from "stupid good" to "very good", it all starts falling apart. It's unchecked complexity that at some point is going to destroy you. And it can literally destroy them. "From Unicorns to Zombies: Tech Start-Ups Run Out of Time and Money" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/07/technology/tech-startups-collapse.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/07/technology/tech-startups-...
keehun 3y ago
If you primarily listen to classical music, Apple's new Classical Music app (part of its Music subscription) is *fantastic*.
- alejoar 3y ago
  What's not fantastic is apple's lock down of their ecosystem. I'm not paying for some lacking android app by Apple.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    The screenshots in the Play Store make it seem like the same app I see in iOS.
  - toofy 3y ago
    anecdotal, I have the apple family plan and my partner has no problems with the apple music app on her android—we’ve been on it for a couple years. i’ve used her phone to control music on long car trips, if there are differences i haven’t noticed. again, anecdotal.
- crorella 3y ago
  another nice option is Qobuz, the sound quality is good for the newer releases.
  - raccoonDivider 3y ago
    The UI was one step below Spotify or Apple the last time I tried it though.
    - Anamon 3y ago
      It's noticeable that they're working with a much much smaller team than their competitors, and they occasionally roll out new bugs. On the other hand, they seem really dedicated and listen to the users. I've switched to Qobuz about five years ago and while I've had the occasional issue, I don't plan to move away from it. I usually get a personal reply to my bug reports (usually from the same guy -> small team! :D) and that tends to make me much more willing to support a company.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
Not to mention them killing playlist radio functionality, which was a great way to have a custom Pandora-like experience whose seed you could control.
saos 3y ago
> recently play list stopped syncing between my phone and my desktop app after 2022 for some reason. Is it a bug or they just stop doing this since it costs more to sync? I thought this was just me. Defo a bug.
dbtc 3y ago
Check out Idagio for classical. No affiliation.
jes5199 3y ago
I think that beyond some relatively small number, engineering headcount functions as a demonstration of wealth - it doesn't actually make the product better, it doesn't make you ship faster (Brooks's law). but it makes you look big and important and justifies your market cap
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  Sales scales as O(N), eng/product should scale at sqrt or log. Ideally, obviously.
- elicksaur 3y ago
  I want to like this theory, and it seems like there is some social clout aspect to the phenomenon. But, the bump these companies get in the stock market whenever they do a round of layoffs indicates the market cap is justified by what you would expect.
- renegade-otter 3y ago
  Exactly. VCs want to see growth by watching double the engineering headcount on every subsequent visit. It's ALL about optics and burning money for show. But the party is ending. I have seen it first-hand - company opening a new floor to show growth, but it was half-empty. They are laying off people this week.
DotaFan 3y ago
> I didn’t know they have that many people (9000) to work for a single product. I would presume it's many more products than just Spotify app.
Lalabadie 3y ago
> I didn’t know they have that many people (9000) to work for a single product. Having had a wee insight into how it worked at Rdio (obligatory: I miss Rdio!), one big chunk of the answer is they need a literal army of lawyers. A worldwide streaming music library is a hoard of licensing liabilities for every possible country, with deals that expire, renew and change hands daily on every possible mix of business days and holiday calendars. As for the design and development headcount, I guess they dispatch teams and tasks as efficiently as Meta with their thousands of acqui-hired product people.
- SleepilyLimping 3y ago
  Everyone misses Rdio.
dandesim 3y ago
It's very much more than supporting 'one product'. Off the top of my head, regarding engineering, I can think of: 1. iOS App 2. Android App 3. Windows App 4. Microsoft App 5. Web App 6. Underlying API 7. Artist Portal/App 8. Advertising Portal/App 9. PlayStation App 10. Xbox App There are probably entire engineering teams for each micro-service in the overall product (personalization, playlists, player, etc.).
- pants2 3y ago
  They have Spotify apps on everything: Garmin watches, Roku TVs, the "Car Thing", Amazon Echo, Facebook Portal, Discord, Bixby... That's a lot of apps to maintain and keep up to date with the latest features.
- ntlk 3y ago
  They used to have Soundtrap, which is a DAW in the browser and had two separate apps. They sold it back to the founders AFAIK.
tracerbulletx 3y ago
Every damned time this happens someone asks how it's possible they have so many employees when it's just an app... Spotify owns multiple large podcast studios, has sales people, negotiators, music industry people, lawyers, facility staff, lawyers, marketing, content curators. It is the business engine through which the vast majority of the world consumes music these days. You can quibble about if they have too many engineering employees, but at least get the real number first.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  This seems false, Whatsapp became 'the business engine through which the vast majority of the world' sends texts on the backs of 20ish employees. Even assuming delivering music, podcasts, royalty payments, negotiations with artists, etc..., takes 100x more headcount in total, that should still be only around 2000 employees. 9000 just means most are not being that productive.
  - tracerbulletx 3y ago
    Obviously you can do it leaner, if they couldn't they wouldn't be firing people. My point is that you shouldn't be trying to estimate based on the technical side when most of the head count is negotiating with record companies and producing podcasts. In any case I personally wouldn't be so obsessed with every company running as lean as possible, great way to have 5 people make 10 billion dollars and everyone else just gets to pound sand. In a healthy society companies should run fat to keep people employed, engaged, trained up, ready to fill in as a replacement, and lots and lots of vacation time.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      > ...when most of the head count is negotiating with record companies and producing podcasts. Can you link the source?
  - firecall 3y ago
    It does sound extreme doesn’t it! But I wonder if they have to replicate non-dev teams in multiple countries? I’d imagine they have to a seperate legal, promotional, marketing, sales and so on teams for each market. Replicating these business functions quickly adds up to thousands of people employed! As an English speaker I tend to think of music as being all in English, but each region has its own musical culture that would need addressing. France I believe mandates a certain amount of French speaking songs.
firecall 3y ago
For me it’s the forcing of Podcasts down my throat that I hate. No Spotify, I do not want to listen to Joe Rogan and other right wing podcasts. Just let me hide Podcasts already :-(
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  I don't care what American "wing" they are, I don't want podcasts and don't appreciate getting ads for them on the "ad-free" service I pay for.
- seoulbran 3y ago
  I may be in the minority here but I still enjoy the Joe Rogan Experience. As an avid listener the past 12 years I can tell you he is not "right wing" in any way. He was a liberal and believes the left "left him behind" when progressivism hijacked the democratic party. Most intellectually honest humans agree with him.
  - firecall 3y ago
    I stand corrected :-) Seems I unfairly bundled him in with online 'Right Wing' movement. He does have a certain reputation though in some quarters :-)
- some_furry 3y ago
  Spotify without podcasts would be delightful
commandlinefan 3y ago
> they have that many people (9000) ... just gets worse everyday As much as I hate to see layoffs from an empathization perspective, maybe this is the reason? Remember Brook's Law - adding manpower to a late project makes it later. Too many cooks spoil the broth and all that.
guluarte 3y ago
I count not open the app on my phone because the timezone reported by my carries was not compatible
shoulderfake 3y ago
[dead]

fennecbutt 3y ago

They keep changing the design of the app for the worse, just nonsensical stuff. Like how many UX design people do they have? Cause clearly they're just changing stuff to make themselves feel useful. The heart changing to a plus, what the fuck Spotify?

mdhen 3y ago

I can reccomend deezer. I switched away from spotify last year and ended up trying like 5 different options before settling on deezer. No complaints, great quality streams (lossless), can upload your own songs and their recommendations system is really good.

neycoda 3y ago

It's called "maximizing profit" "for the shareholders" by "saving money". They consider their workforce a liability and expense instead of an investment and necessary for quality and competitiveness. They're just cutting into their workforce to impress investors to bilk more money out of them. It's a sick philosophy for short-term gain that will ultimately destroy the company.

renegade-otter 3y ago

It's hundreds of "microservices". That's why they created Backstage. You just need that many people if you are going to go that route. Unfortunately for them, once the economy goes from "stupid good" to "very good", it all starts falling apart. It's unchecked complexity that at some point is going to destroy you. And it can literally destroy them. "From Unicorns to Zombies: Tech Start-Ups Run Out of Time and Money" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/07/technology/tech-startups-collapse.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/07/technology/tech-startups-...

keehun 3y ago

If you primarily listen to classical music, Apple's new Classical Music app (part of its Music subscription) is *fantastic*.

alejoar 3y ago
What's not fantastic is apple's lock down of their ecosystem. I'm not paying for some lacking android app by Apple.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  The screenshots in the Play Store make it seem like the same app I see in iOS.
- toofy 3y ago
  anecdotal, I have the apple family plan and my partner has no problems with the apple music app on her android—we’ve been on it for a couple years. i’ve used her phone to control music on long car trips, if there are differences i haven’t noticed. again, anecdotal.
crorella 3y ago
another nice option is Qobuz, the sound quality is good for the newer releases.
- raccoonDivider 3y ago
  The UI was one step below Spotify or Apple the last time I tried it though.
  - Anamon 3y ago
    It's noticeable that they're working with a much much smaller team than their competitors, and they occasionally roll out new bugs. On the other hand, they seem really dedicated and listen to the users. I've switched to Qobuz about five years ago and while I've had the occasional issue, I don't plan to move away from it. I usually get a personal reply to my bug reports (usually from the same guy -> small team! :D) and that tends to make me much more willing to support a company.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago

Not to mention them killing playlist radio functionality, which was a great way to have a custom Pandora-like experience whose seed you could control.

saos 3y ago

> recently play list stopped syncing between my phone and my desktop app after 2022 for some reason. Is it a bug or they just stop doing this since it costs more to sync? I thought this was just me. Defo a bug.

dbtc 3y ago

Check out Idagio for classical. No affiliation.

jes5199 3y ago

I think that beyond some relatively small number, engineering headcount functions as a demonstration of wealth - it doesn't actually make the product better, it doesn't make you ship faster (Brooks's law). but it makes you look big and important and justifies your market cap

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
Sales scales as O(N), eng/product should scale at sqrt or log. Ideally, obviously.
elicksaur 3y ago
I want to like this theory, and it seems like there is some social clout aspect to the phenomenon. But, the bump these companies get in the stock market whenever they do a round of layoffs indicates the market cap is justified by what you would expect.
renegade-otter 3y ago
Exactly. VCs want to see growth by watching double the engineering headcount on every subsequent visit. It's ALL about optics and burning money for show. But the party is ending. I have seen it first-hand - company opening a new floor to show growth, but it was half-empty. They are laying off people this week.

DotaFan 3y ago

> I didn’t know they have that many people (9000) to work for a single product. I would presume it's many more products than just Spotify app.

Lalabadie 3y ago

> I didn’t know they have that many people (9000) to work for a single product. Having had a wee insight into how it worked at Rdio (obligatory: I miss Rdio!), one big chunk of the answer is they need a literal army of lawyers. A worldwide streaming music library is a hoard of licensing liabilities for every possible country, with deals that expire, renew and change hands daily on every possible mix of business days and holiday calendars. As for the design and development headcount, I guess they dispatch teams and tasks as efficiently as Meta with their thousands of acqui-hired product people.

SleepilyLimping 3y ago
Everyone misses Rdio.

dandesim 3y ago

It's very much more than supporting 'one product'. Off the top of my head, regarding engineering, I can think of: 1. iOS App 2. Android App 3. Windows App 4. Microsoft App 5. Web App 6. Underlying API 7. Artist Portal/App 8. Advertising Portal/App 9. PlayStation App 10. Xbox App There are probably entire engineering teams for each micro-service in the overall product (personalization, playlists, player, etc.).

pants2 3y ago
They have Spotify apps on everything: Garmin watches, Roku TVs, the "Car Thing", Amazon Echo, Facebook Portal, Discord, Bixby... That's a lot of apps to maintain and keep up to date with the latest features.
ntlk 3y ago
They used to have Soundtrap, which is a DAW in the browser and had two separate apps. They sold it back to the founders AFAIK.

tracerbulletx 3y ago

Every damned time this happens someone asks how it's possible they have so many employees when it's just an app... Spotify owns multiple large podcast studios, has sales people, negotiators, music industry people, lawyers, facility staff, lawyers, marketing, content curators. It is the business engine through which the vast majority of the world consumes music these days. You can quibble about if they have too many engineering employees, but at least get the real number first.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
This seems false, Whatsapp became 'the business engine through which the vast majority of the world' sends texts on the backs of 20ish employees. Even assuming delivering music, podcasts, royalty payments, negotiations with artists, etc..., takes 100x more headcount in total, that should still be only around 2000 employees. 9000 just means most are not being that productive.
- tracerbulletx 3y ago
  Obviously you can do it leaner, if they couldn't they wouldn't be firing people. My point is that you shouldn't be trying to estimate based on the technical side when most of the head count is negotiating with record companies and producing podcasts. In any case I personally wouldn't be so obsessed with every company running as lean as possible, great way to have 5 people make 10 billion dollars and everyone else just gets to pound sand. In a healthy society companies should run fat to keep people employed, engaged, trained up, ready to fill in as a replacement, and lots and lots of vacation time.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    > ...when most of the head count is negotiating with record companies and producing podcasts. Can you link the source?
- firecall 3y ago
  It does sound extreme doesn’t it! But I wonder if they have to replicate non-dev teams in multiple countries? I’d imagine they have to a seperate legal, promotional, marketing, sales and so on teams for each market. Replicating these business functions quickly adds up to thousands of people employed! As an English speaker I tend to think of music as being all in English, but each region has its own musical culture that would need addressing. France I believe mandates a certain amount of French speaking songs.

firecall 3y ago

For me it’s the forcing of Podcasts down my throat that I hate. No Spotify, I do not want to listen to Joe Rogan and other right wing podcasts. Just let me hide Podcasts already :-(

averageRoyalty 3y ago
I don't care what American "wing" they are, I don't want podcasts and don't appreciate getting ads for them on the "ad-free" service I pay for.
seoulbran 3y ago
I may be in the minority here but I still enjoy the Joe Rogan Experience. As an avid listener the past 12 years I can tell you he is not "right wing" in any way. He was a liberal and believes the left "left him behind" when progressivism hijacked the democratic party. Most intellectually honest humans agree with him.
- firecall 3y ago
  I stand corrected :-) Seems I unfairly bundled him in with online 'Right Wing' movement. He does have a certain reputation though in some quarters :-)
some_furry 3y ago
Spotify without podcasts would be delightful

commandlinefan 3y ago

> they have that many people (9000) ... just gets worse everyday As much as I hate to see layoffs from an empathization perspective, maybe this is the reason? Remember Brook's Law - adding manpower to a late project makes it later. Too many cooks spoil the broth and all that.

guluarte 3y ago

I count not open the app on my phone because the timezone reported by my carries was not compatible

shoulderfake 3y ago

[dead]