9 ms·
Mice eating less isoleucine live longer, healthier
- gardenfelder 3y ago"“Very quickly, we saw the mice on the reduced isoleucine diet lose adiposity — their bodies got leaner, they lost fat,” says Lamming, while the bodies of the mice on the low-amino-acid diet also got leaner to start, but eventually regained weight and fat."
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoGood follow-up would be with Furanomycin, an isoleucine antagonist [1]. [1] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00318a035 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00318a035
- mahrain 3y agoSaving you a Wikipedia search: “ Foods that have high amounts of isoleucine include eggs, soy protein, seaweed, turkey, chicken, lamb, cheese, and fish.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoleucine?wprov=sfti1#Nutritional_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoleucine?wprov=sfti1#Nutriti...
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- unsupp0rted 3y agoSo 100% of my protein sources
- 317070 3y agoIt's as if proteins contain a lot of amino acids.
- FartyMcFarter 3y agoYou need it to survive. It's an essential amino acid.
- stephen_g 3y agoProbably don’t stress about it too much (or really at all), unless you are a mouse.
- lucisferre 3y agoSo everything except beef, pork, nuts and grains in terms of protein sources?
- elf25 3y ago[dead]
- croes 3y agoIsn't that the food normally linked with the longevity of people of the Mediterranean areas?
- api 3y agoYes, this study comes with the standard “in mice” caveat. We don’t know if this would replicate in humans. It is interesting though if for no other reason than to illustrate that all calorie sources are not equivalent.
- robwwilliams 3y agoEven in mice there is a large sex difference.Most beneficial in males.
- NeuroCoder 3y agoThis is a really good point. There are a lot of really odd outcomes these mice models consistently produce but we don't know what causes them and/or don't care because it's not within the scope of the primary research question
- robwwilliams 3y agoSome of us care ;-) including Dudley Lamming. Here is our group’s latest paper in Science. We try to get at genetics of sex differences in lifespan: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36173858/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36173858/ In this study we mapped 7 chromosomal regions that modulate lifespan in mice. We are now up to about 35 regions. Of course the goal is to understand the actual processes modulated by each so-called “locus”.
- hombre_fatal 3y agoIt doesn't make sense to me to focus-fire a single nutrient of a food, find some reason to not maximize it in mice, and then use that to avoid whole foods that contain that nutrient, especially as a human. A food could have all sorts of individual nutrients that look bad in isolation while the food only improves human health outcomes when put to the test.
- jfengel 3y agoRandomized controlled diet experiments over the lifetime of a human are pretty difficult. So they make do with what data they can get. Putting that data together to form a recommendation is incredibly difficult. If we could just get people not to imagine that it's trivial ("eat no isolucene and live forever"), we'd be several steps ahead of where we are.
- robwwilliams 3y agoTurkey should not be high on this list. This source is comparatively low in isoleucine according to Dudley Lamming—the senior author, sand here is a site to check other meats: tools.myfooddata.com
- scns 3y agoMy advocatus diaboli asks: Was this study financed by Turkey farmers?
- riazrizvi 3y agoFrom the summary of the paper > Restriction of the branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) leucine, isoleucine, and valine recapitulates many of these benefits in young C57BL/6J mice So maybe stop using that BCAA supplement?
- FartyMcFarter 3y agoThese days BCAAs have the reputation of being pretty useless anyway, unless your diet is very poor. You get enough BCAAs from complete protein sources.
- treprinum 3y agoLook up the AXA1125 for non-fatty liver disease and see how BCAA with a bunch of other amino acids (arginine, NAC, glutamine) gets your liver and mitochondria back in shape.
- FartyMcFarter 3y agoI didn't know about that, to clarify I meant for people using it to build muscle.
- seec 3y agoI just started using it out of curiosity and I have to say it does seem to improve recovery and building. I don't know if I'm hallucinating yet (just about a week in) but something has changed for sure and that's not confirmation bias (measurable on the bioimpedance meter) Putting muscle mass is not my priority as I am mostly a runner, but I do swim too and upper body strength makes a good difference there. So, I would rather not lose whatever I build and make it easier to maintain... My diet isn't very high in animal products most of the time which may be the reason. But between vegan doomerism and the price of quality meat it's not easy to find a balance...
- baxtr 3y ago[flagged]
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- jcutrell 3y agoHow does this square with the fact that isoleucine is important for muscle mass development?
- XorNot 3y agoIt doesn't. And honestly the result should be treated skeptically until someone replicates it. Mice studies like this have a ton caveats: the animal lives 3 years versus the human 100 years. Research like this is better for understanding biochemical pathways then whole organism affects, especially since "aging" isn't a well defined phenomenon (it's a grab bag of other things we want to prevent).
- globular-toast 3y agoThat muscle mass development has nothing to do with living healthier or longer?
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoWell it's correlated, in that the resistance training associated with developing muscle mass also increases bone density and other factors that lead to living longer. Curious what would happen if you did resistance training while simultaneously stunting the development of muscle. Would you still get the same health benefits?
- terribleperson 3y agoWild-assed guess: the benefits of increased muscle mass and bone density matter much more to humans than they do to mice. We are large and heavy, while mice are small and light.
- WillPostForFood 3y agoApparently it wasn't an issue? The article says mice on the low-isoleucine diet did better on muscle strength.
- 11235813213455 3y agowe don't need much muscle
- DonHopkins 3y agoWhy will I live longer and healthier if I eat mice???
- bell-cot 3y agoDespite common folk wisdom about "nine lives", field data strongly suggests that no individual living on an all-mouse diet has survived beyond age 40.
- tcbawo 3y agoThis reminds me of a cartoon I saw recently: “Every single person that confuses correlation and causation ends up dying!”
- NeuroCoder 3y agoNew favorite quote
- whyenot 3y agoYes, but what if the mice are living inside houses instead of in a field?
- bell-cot 3y agoFor starters, house mice are ~certain to contain far more microplastics, PFAS, and other pollutants and toxins than free-range field* mice. *As in "natural, organic field". Not a field of weeds growing atop some old toxic waste dump.
- twic 3y agoExcept that the mTOR pathway also promotes growth and preservation of muscle tissue, and we know that muscle tissue is rather important to quality of life and avoidance of injury in old age.
- heroiccocoa 3y agoManipulating the mTOR pathway involves making a trade-off based on your preferred type of death: on the one hand we have frailty, hip fractures, muscle wasting, etc, and in the other metabolic diseases, cancer, CVD, alzheimer's, diabetes etc. But, you can probably still grow strong enough from life-long resistance training a few times a week+eating enough other (plant) protein. I believe that this is the modern longevity recipe from what we have learned so far from the mTOR/fasting/leucine/isoleucine/methionine research. I hope we soon learn more about optimizing anabolism/autophagy in a targeted way instead of the entire body, that's what it all seems to boil down to.
- manmal 3y agoThere might be a timing aspect to it - eg by boosting mTOR only in the morning (protein rich breakfast etc).
- Attummm 3y agoCircadian rhythm of the body timing is quite important. There is some research pointing towards that most hunger pangs not caused by daily eating schedule are protein related.
- manmal 3y agoI think it’s multifactorial, but yes, protein is definitely an important part. Impaired gluconeogenesis or glycogen production, or insulin resistance could be other factors there. Chromium, vanadium, zinc, copper, selenium, iron, iodine deficiencies can all lead to problems in those areas. Certain (micro)biome pathogens, too, eg acetaldehyde producers.
- 3y ago
- robwwilliams 3y agoThis is a great study. And Thanksgiving is a perfect time for a low isoleucine dinner—-turkey is about as low as you can get.
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- LegitShady 3y agoImportant news for mice everywhere. Maybe we can make engine wiring harnesses out of isoleucine in the future.
- cosmin800 3y agoWe all know mice are the perfect human model.
- whatscooking 3y agoMetabolism is pretty conserved across organisms, so it’s not even that bad
- XorNot 3y agoYes but longevity isn't.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- whatscooking 3y agoAll these anti-aging posts make me cringe. Face it, you’re going to die one day. You want to be healthier? Eat a healthy diet and exercise instead of looking for shortcuts
- ironmagma 3y ago> healthy diet Easy to say that phrase, much harder to elucidate exactly what it means. And how will we find out what it means without studying it?
- InCityDreams 3y agoEveryone is different. Eat what you want. There is no perfect diet. And we are all going to die [if not tomorrow :-]
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- ironmagma 3y agoThat’s anti-science. It’s well established you shouldn’t just “eat what you want,” at least when it comes to living a long/healthy life. Death is a compounding statistical phenomenon, not a discrete one.
- jokethrowaway 3y agoIt's really hard to tell what's science in nutrition and what is some unreplicable crap Nestlé is using to say its cereals are healthy. Brief reminder we recommended sugar over fats for decades.
- ironmagma 3y agoIt’s all science, reproducibility is a larger crisis within science at the moment not unique to nutrition. But even if it was (and it is) slightly higher in food science, the solution is not “eat whatever you want”, it’s more like that you should understand the fundamentals instead of overfitting to individual studies.
- treprinum 3y agoDunno, (long) covid seems to deplete (iso)leucine and BCAA/HMB is necessary to supplement if one wants to recover from it and not function like a zombie for years...
- stephen_g 3y agoSince mice are mostly herbivores (they do eat insects and worms and stuff, but apart from that mostly grain, seeds and plants), I wouldn’t really expect them to thrive eating large quantities of an amino acid found mostly (in decently large quantities) in meats anyway… So don’t put too much stock in this being directly applicable to humans.
- frankus 3y agoInteresting n=1 experiment of a guy who lowered his fasting blood glucose from pre-diabetic to normal by restricting BCAAs: https://fireinabottle.net/how-i-both-aced-and-failed-my-oral-glucose-tolerance-test-ogtt/ https://fireinabottle.net/how-i-both-aced-and-failed-my-oral...
- nikolay 3y agoAnother point about why meat and milk is good when young, but not so much beyond middle age.
- stubish 3y agoIt would be interesting if less isoleucine was responsible for some of the longevity improvements of calorific restriction in mice.
- derbOac 3y agoI can't read the article but there's no explanation for why they would be interested in isoleucine in particular. They also seem nonplussed as to the mechanisms of any isoleucine-restriction longevity. As a result it comes across very post hoc. I suspect I'm missing something though?
- throw555chip 3y agoWay above my head but less of whatever isoleucine is doesn't sound advisable: https://aminoacidsguide.com/Ile.html https://aminoacidsguide.com/Ile.html "Isoleucine participates in hemoglobin synthesis, as well as in the regulation of blood sugar and energy levels. Studies revealed that this amino acid has a very low toxicity at pharmatological levels up to 8% of solution concentration in rats." "As a matter of fact, the three amino acids (Isoleucine, Leucine, and Valine) constitute nearly 70% of all the amino acids in the body's proteins. That is why their value in human body is so high."
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- 3seashells 3y ago100 years in this society, what more could one want..