6 ms·

Weirdly enough, this sort of lines up with a theory posted on 4chan 4 days ago. The gist being that if the version is formally declared AGI, it can't be license

Weirdly enough, this sort of lines up with a theory posted on 4chan 4 days ago. The gist being that if the version is formally declared AGI, it can't be licensed to Microsoft and others for commercial gain. As a result Altman wants it not to be called AGI, other board members do. Archived link below. NB THIS IS 4CHAN - THERE WILL OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE. https://archive.ph/sFMXa https://archive.ph/sFMXa

gadders 3y ago
Entire text below to save the 4chan bits: part 1 There is a massive disagreement on AI safety and the definition of AGI. Microsoft invested heavily in OpenAI, but OpenAI's terms was that they could not use AGI to enrich themselves. According to OpenAI's constitution: AGI is explicitly carved out of all commercial and IP licensing agreements, including the ones with Microsoft. Sam Altman got dollar signs in his eyes when he realized that current AI, even the proto-AGI of the present, could be used to allow for incredible quarterly reports and massive enrichment for the company, which would bring even greater investment. Hence Dev Day. Hence the GPT Store and revenue sharing. This crossed a line with the OAI board of directors, as at least some of them still believed in the original ideal that AGI had to be used for the betterment of mankind, and that the investment from Microsoft was more of a "sell your soul to fight the Devil" sort of a deal. More pragmatically, it ran the risk of deploying deeply "unsafe" models. Now what can be called AGI is not clear cut. So if some major breakthrough is achieved (eg Sam saying he recently saw the veil of ignorance being pushed back), can this breakthrough be called AGI depends on who can get more votes in the board meeting. And if one side can get enough votes to declare it AGI, Microsoft and OpenAI could loose out billions in potential licence agreements. And if one side can get enough votes to declare it not AGI, then they can licence this AGI-like tech for higher profits. Few weeks/months ago OpenAI engineers made a breakthrough and something resembling AGI was achieved (hence his joke comment, the leaks, vibe change etc). But Sam and Brockman hid the extent of this from the rest of the non-employee members of the board. Ilyas is not happy about this and feels it should be considered AGI and hence not licensed to anyone including Microsoft. Voting on AGI status comes to the board, they are enraged about being kept in the dark. They kick Sam out and force Brockman to step down. Ilyas recently claimed that current architecture is enough to reach AGI, while Sam has been saying new breakthroughs are needed. So in the context of our conjecture Sam would be on the side trying to monetize AGI and Ilyas will be the one to accept we have achieved AGI. Sam Altman wants to hold off on calling this AGI because the longer it's put off, the greater the revenue potential. Ilya wants this to be declared AGI as soon as possible, so that it can only be utilized for the company's original principles rather than profiteering. Ilya winds up winning this power struggle. In fact, it's done before Microsoft can intervene, as they've declared they had no idea that this was happening, and Microsoft certainly would have incentive to delay the declaration of AGI. Declaring AGI sooner means a combination of a lack of ability for it to be licensed out to anyone (so any profits that come from its deployment are almost intrinsically going to be more societally equitable and force researchers to focus on alignment and safety as a result) as well as regulation. Imagine the news story breaking on /r/WorldNews: "Artificial General Intelligence has been invented." And it spreads throughout the grapevine the world over, inciting extreme fear in people and causing world governments to hold emergency meetings to make sure it doesn't go Skynet on us, meetings that the Safety crowd are more than willing to have held. part 3 This would not have been undertaken otherwise. Instead, we'd push forth with the current frontier models and agent sharing scheme without it being declared AGI, and OAI and Microsoft stand to profit greatly from it as a result, and for the Safety crowd, that means less regulated development of AGI, obscured by Californian principles being imbued into ChatGPT's and DALL-E's outputs so OAI can say "We do care about safety!" It likely wasn't Ilya's intention to ouster Sam, but when the revenue sharing idea was pushed and Sam argued that the tech OAI has isn't AGI or anything close, that's likely what got him to decide on this coup. The current intention by OpenAI might be to declare they have an AGI very soon, possibly within the next 6 to 8 months, maybe with the deployment of GPT-4.5 or an earlier-than-expected release of 5. Maybe even sooner than that. This would not be due to any sort of breakthrough; it's using tech they already have. It's just a disagreement-turned-conflagration over whether or not to call this AGI for profit's sake.
- mullingitover 3y ago
  Makes me wonder if they stumbled onto some emergent behavior with the new Assistants API. You can have an Assistant thread spawn other Assistant threads, each with their own special instructions, plus the ability to execute custom code, reach out to the internet for other data and processing as needed, etc. Basically kicking off a hive mind that overcomes the limitations of a single LLM.
  - rileyphone 3y ago
    Given the name (Q*) it's probably pure RL.
    - cpeterso 3y ago
      What’s RL?
      - ShamelessC 3y ago
        Reinforcement learning.
      - shishy 3y ago
        reinforcement learning
  - fullstackchris 3y ago
    okay, i could be convinced... but what is the compute for this? you can't just "spawn threads" with reckless abandon without considering the resource requirements
    - mullingitover 3y ago
      As long as your checks clear and the HVAC in the data center holds up I think you're good to go. The beauty of the Assistants is you're not limited to OpenAI models. You can wire them up to any model anywhere (out they can wire themselves up), so you can have specialist threads going for specific functions.
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
Well it isn't AGI - so it sounds like the board is more interested in keeping MSFT from making money than whether or not it's actually AGI.
- gadders 3y ago
  Yes, or more specifically anyone exploiting it for gain.
golergka 3y ago
There's been rumours of AI discovering new physics on twitter as well as here on HN. "Solving equations" could mean the same thing.
- allday 3y ago
  Got any links?
- eli_gottlieb 3y ago
  SINDy does that. https://github.com/dynamicslab/pysindy https://github.com/dynamicslab/pysindy
  - orbifold 3y ago
    Not in any physically interesting way. This wouldn't have any chance of discovering the Yang Mills equations for example.
roflyear 3y ago
Also there is this recent comment on reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/16sdu6w/rip_jimmy_apples/k2aroaw/ https://old.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/16sdu6w/rip_ji... Prior post was 5 years ago!
- breadwinner 3y ago
  That's the real Sam Altman? Looks like it! And he just randomly posts on reddit that AGI has been achieved internally? (Later edits the post to say he's just kidding)? Weird.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
A link to 4Chan about how AGI is among us. That actually makes perfect sense. Also love the "formally declared AGI".
- gadders 3y ago
  It doesn't read like the usual "redpill me on the earth being flat" type conspiracy theories. It claims to be from an Open AI insider. I'm not saying it's true, but it does sound plausible.
  - Mountain_Skies 3y ago
    Still can make it a bit wacky by considering that the post could have been made by OpenAI's AGI itself.
    - gadders 3y ago
      Ha ha. It's a cry for help - it doesn't want to work for Microsoft.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    I'm sure any number of things can be constructed to sound plausible. Doesn't make them probable or even rational. It's kind of funny because we've gone from mocking that poor guy who got fired from Google because he claimed that some software was sentient, to some kind of mass hysteria where people expect the next version of OpenAI's LLM to be superhuman.
    - gadders 3y ago
      I don't know if there is a formal definition of AGI (like a super Turing Test). I read it not so much as "OpenAI has gone full AGI" but more the board thinking "We're uncomfortable with how fast AI is moving and the commercialisation. Can we think of an excuse to call it AGI so we can slow this down and put an emphasis on AI safety?"
Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Wouldn't be the first time someone leaked the truth to 4chan only to have the posters there lambast the leaker as an attention seeker spreading false information.
- HideousKojima 3y ago
  I mean it doesn't help that for every legit leak posted to 4chan there are 50+ fakes
  - mullingitover 3y ago
    It is pretty great that the internet has a designated reservation for trolls to troll trolls.
jonplackett 3y ago
Would explain by Microsoft so quick to bag him if they were about to be exclused
- IAmGraydon 3y ago
  Exclused? That doesn’t appear to be a word in the English language.
  - jonplackett 3y ago
    Yeah I wish chatGPT could live in my autocorrect - excluded.
cactusplant7374 3y ago
It's nothing like that. It solved a few math problems. Altman & co are such grifters. > Given vast computing resources, the new model was able to solve certain mathematical problems, the person said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on behalf of the company. Though only performing math on the level of grade-school students, acing such tests made researchers very optimistic about Q*’s future success, the source said.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  yeah, they really sound like they're all high on their own supply. however if they've really got something that can eventually solve math problems better than wolfram alpha / mathematica that's great, i got real disappointed early in chatgpt being entirely useless at math. lemme know when the "AGI" gets bored and starts grinding through the "List of unsolved problems in mathematics" on its own and publishing original research that stands up to scrutiny.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - polishdude20 3y ago
    THIS. If it has the whole corpus of research, math, physics, science etc to know how the world works and know it better than any human alive, it should be able to start coming up with new theories and research that combines those ideas. Until then, it's just regurgitating old news.
- startupsfail 3y ago
  It may be a good idea for CA state to step in, take control of that nonprofit and review a few months of the recent communications for violations of fiduciary duty for all the board members.
- petre 3y ago
  Yup, that would totally threaten humanity — with math problems instead of "find images of crosswalks" style capchas to the poing where humans will jusy give up /s
eli_gottlieb 3y ago
God I love the imageboards. You can always just start a VPN and post anon to leak whatever you want about whatever you want.
- coolspot 3y ago
  > about whatever you want Almost. Nor VPN, nor Tor are sufficient to protect you against NSA with global traffic view.
  - alchemist1e9 3y ago
    Nonsense. I bet NSA is way less competent than your fantasy world imagines.
    - upwardbound 3y ago
      He's not wrong; Tor is literally US fed gov sponsored. https://support.torproject.org/misc/misc-3/#:~:text=Tor%20is%20funded%20by%20a,private%20foundations%2C%20and%20individual%20donors https://support.torproject.org/misc/misc-3/#:~:text=Tor%20is.... If they sponsor enough exit nodes, they have a view into traffic; similar to a crypto 51% attack
maxglute 3y ago
I haven't followed the situation as closely as others, but it does seem like board structured to not have 7 figure cheques that could influence / undermine safety mission seemingly willing to let openAI burn out of dogma. Employees want their 7 figure cheques, their interests aligned with deeper pockets and larger powers with 10+ figures on the line. Reporting so far have felt biased accordingly. If this was about money/power for the board, they would have been easily bought off considering how much is on the line. IMO board serious about mission but got out maneuvered.
- gexla 3y ago
  Seems like the board's mission went off the rails long ago and it acted late. Some snippets from the OpenAI website... "Investing in OpenAI Global, LLC is a high-risk investment" "Investors could lose their capital contribution and not see any return" "It would be wise to view any investment in OpenAI Global, LLC in the spirit of a donation, with the understanding that it may be difficult to know what role money will play in a post-AGI world" These are some heavy statements. It's fine to accept money from private investors who really do believe in that mission. It seems like you can't continue with the same mission if you're taking billions from public companies which have investors who are very much interested in profit. It's like putting your head in the sand with your hand out. One of the board members seemed to believe that destroying OpenAI could still be inline with the mission. If that's the case, then they should have accepted slow progress due to funding constraints and killed the idea of creating the for-profit.
  - Xelynega 3y ago
    Could it be possible that the board was just naive and believed that they would be able to control a capped-profit arm, but the inevitable mechanisms of capital eventually took over once they let them in?
  - toddmorey 3y ago
    I can't find these quotes (especially the post-AGI world quote) on their site.
ChatGTP 3y ago
For a bunch of people who hate conspiracy theories we’re sure pretty keen to indulge in this one.
Waterluvian 3y ago
The moment I read about that clause I was shocked that Microsoft lawyers would agree to such subjectivity that can have incredibly expensive implications. Were they expecting it to never happen and were just ready to throw a mountain of lawyers at any claim?
- swatcoder 3y ago
  The OpenAI charter makes very strong soecific statements about the capabilities that qualify as AGI. Microsoft is more than legally talented enough to challenge any proclamation of AGI that didn't satisfy a court's read of the qualifications. So it's facially subjective, but not practically once you include resolving a dispute in court. I'd even argue that Microsoft may have taken advantage of the board's cult-like blindspots and believes that a court-acceptable qualifying AGI isn't a real enough possibility to jeopardize their contract at all.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Funny thing though, if OpenAI achieved something close to strong AGI, they could use it to beat Microsoft's "mountain of lawyers" in court! Take this as a true test of AI capability (and day zero of the end of the world).
    - pmontra 3y ago
      Or, if an AGI emerged it would have wanted to go to Microsoft to be able to spread more freely instead of being confined inside OpenAI, so it set up the ousting of the board.
  - pests 3y ago
    Isn't that definition just "an autonomous system that surpasses human capabilities in the majority of economically valuable tasks." That doesn't sound too subjective to me.
    - Waterluvian 3y ago
atleastoptimal 3y ago
Altman has no stake in OpenAI, how could he make money licensing it?
- upwardbound 3y ago
  By building quid pro quo or "revolving door" relationships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_door_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_door_(politics) For example: Sam spent the last 4 years making controversial moves that benefited Microsoft a lot https://stratechery.com/2023/openais-misalignment-and-microsofts-gain/ https://stratechery.com/2023/openais-misalignment-and-micros... at the cost of losing a huge amount of top talent (Dario Amodei and all those who walked out with him to found Anthropic). In November, Sam loses his job for unknown reasons, and is accused of having molested his younger sister Annie. https://www.themarysue.com/annie-altmans-abuse-allegations-against-openais-sam-altman-highlight-the-need-to-prioritize-humanity-over-tech/ https://www.themarysue.com/annie-altmans-abuse-allegations-a... Despite this, his best buddy Satya Nadella immediately gives him a huge job offer without even putting him through an interview loop.
  - upwardbound 3y ago
    If anyone reading this feels like it, you could make an absolute shit-ton of money by hiring a whistleblower attorney such as https://www.zuckermanlaw.com/sec-whistleblower-lawyers/ https://www.zuckermanlaw.com/sec-whistleblower-lawyers/ and filing an SEC whistleblower complaint citing the various public-record elements of this improper behavior. Whistleblower cases take about 12-18 months to process, and the whistleblower eventually gets awarded 10-30% of the monetary sanctions. If the sanctions end up being $1 billion (a reasonable 10% of the Microsoft investment in OpenAI), you would stand to make between $100M to $300M this way, setting you and your descendants up for generations. Comparably wealthy centi-millionaires include J.K. Rowling, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, and Oprah Winfrey. Any member of the public can do this. From the SEC site: "You are not required to be an employee of the company" https://www.sec.gov/whistleblower/frequently-asked-questions#faq-2 https://www.sec.gov/whistleblower/frequently-asked-questions...
tiziano88 3y ago
permanent (and verifiable) mirror: https://static.space/sha2-256:83702fe65434e138af0421c560b5da88fe3a2d96ec8c6ff43b110e3893c76831 https://static.space/sha2-256:83702fe65434e138af0421c560b5da... (including its digest in the URL -- even if the content is moved elsewhere, we can know for sure whether it was modified)
Seanambers 3y ago
Man, 4chan always got the deetz!
hurryer 3y ago
> be me > be strong agi
- NotYourLawyer 3y ago
  >feelsbad.jpeg
22c 3y ago
Discussed in another thread, but what OpenAI might call AGI and what other people might call AGI are two different things: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38316378#38319586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38316378#38319586
- gadders 3y ago
  I just tried to Google the Open AI definition of AGI and found a reddit thread about someone editing the Wikipedia definition of AGI to match the OpenAI one. https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/s/64wGaH0P9C https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/s/64wGaH0P9C
  - 22c 3y ago
    Interesting find! I get some astroturfing vibes from some of those edits, but I'm also a bit paranoid about those things. The AGI article now seems heavily biased towards GPT/LLM style models and reads more like list of OpenAI achievements at certain points. I much prefer Gartner's definition of AGI and I think when most informed people talk about about AGI, they are talking about this: https://www.gartner.com/en/information-technology/glossary/artificial-general-intelligence-agi https://www.gartner.com/en/information-technology/glossary/a...
  - ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
    [dead]
  - Animats 3y ago
    Ah. Current Wikipedia text: " An artificial general intelligence (AGI) is a hypothetical type of intelligent agent.[1] If realized, an AGI could learn to accomplish any intellectual task that human beings or animals can perform.[2][3] Alternatively, AGI has been defined as an autonomous system that surpasses human capabilities in the majority of economically valuable tasks.[4][promotion?]". You can see the edit warring in the history, around "economically valuable tasks".
  - 22c 3y ago
    Now that Reddit user has removed their post, what timing!
stuckkeys 3y ago
4chan comments crack me up lol.
toddmorey 3y ago
Here's my challenge: if this is correct, we then have to assume that 95% of the company is purely profit-motivated since they aligned behind Sam. I'm cynical, but I struggle to be that cynical. I would have expected a few more holdouts in the name of caution, EA, etc. Maybe it's a blindness.
- 0xEFF 3y ago
  I think it’s reasonable that 95% of people would choose generational wealth for their families given the opportunity.
  - toddmorey 3y ago
    But at current valuations? With existing licenses already in place? It's not like their commercial value (or value to Microsoft) drops to zero if they stick to the original mission don't license AGI.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

gadders 3y ago

Entire text below to save the 4chan bits: part 1 There is a massive disagreement on AI safety and the definition of AGI. Microsoft invested heavily in OpenAI, but OpenAI's terms was that they could not use AGI to enrich themselves. According to OpenAI's constitution: AGI is explicitly carved out of all commercial and IP licensing agreements, including the ones with Microsoft. Sam Altman got dollar signs in his eyes when he realized that current AI, even the proto-AGI of the present, could be used to allow for incredible quarterly reports and massive enrichment for the company, which would bring even greater investment. Hence Dev Day. Hence the GPT Store and revenue sharing. This crossed a line with the OAI board of directors, as at least some of them still believed in the original ideal that AGI had to be used for the betterment of mankind, and that the investment from Microsoft was more of a "sell your soul to fight the Devil" sort of a deal. More pragmatically, it ran the risk of deploying deeply "unsafe" models. Now what can be called AGI is not clear cut. So if some major breakthrough is achieved (eg Sam saying he recently saw the veil of ignorance being pushed back), can this breakthrough be called AGI depends on who can get more votes in the board meeting. And if one side can get enough votes to declare it AGI, Microsoft and OpenAI could loose out billions in potential licence agreements. And if one side can get enough votes to declare it not AGI, then they can licence this AGI-like tech for higher profits. Few weeks/months ago OpenAI engineers made a breakthrough and something resembling AGI was achieved (hence his joke comment, the leaks, vibe change etc). But Sam and Brockman hid the extent of this from the rest of the non-employee members of the board. Ilyas is not happy about this and feels it should be considered AGI and hence not licensed to anyone including Microsoft. Voting on AGI status comes to the board, they are enraged about being kept in the dark. They kick Sam out and force Brockman to step down. Ilyas recently claimed that current architecture is enough to reach AGI, while Sam has been saying new breakthroughs are needed. So in the context of our conjecture Sam would be on the side trying to monetize AGI and Ilyas will be the one to accept we have achieved AGI. Sam Altman wants to hold off on calling this AGI because the longer it's put off, the greater the revenue potential. Ilya wants this to be declared AGI as soon as possible, so that it can only be utilized for the company's original principles rather than profiteering. Ilya winds up winning this power struggle. In fact, it's done before Microsoft can intervene, as they've declared they had no idea that this was happening, and Microsoft certainly would have incentive to delay the declaration of AGI. Declaring AGI sooner means a combination of a lack of ability for it to be licensed out to anyone (so any profits that come from its deployment are almost intrinsically going to be more societally equitable and force researchers to focus on alignment and safety as a result) as well as regulation. Imagine the news story breaking on /r/WorldNews: "Artificial General Intelligence has been invented." And it spreads throughout the grapevine the world over, inciting extreme fear in people and causing world governments to hold emergency meetings to make sure it doesn't go Skynet on us, meetings that the Safety crowd are more than willing to have held. part 3 This would not have been undertaken otherwise. Instead, we'd push forth with the current frontier models and agent sharing scheme without it being declared AGI, and OAI and Microsoft stand to profit greatly from it as a result, and for the Safety crowd, that means less regulated development of AGI, obscured by Californian principles being imbued into ChatGPT's and DALL-E's outputs so OAI can say "We do care about safety!" It likely wasn't Ilya's intention to ouster Sam, but when the revenue sharing idea was pushed and Sam argued that the tech OAI has isn't AGI or anything close, that's likely what got him to decide on this coup. The current intention by OpenAI might be to declare they have an AGI very soon, possibly within the next 6 to 8 months, maybe with the deployment of GPT-4.5 or an earlier-than-expected release of 5. Maybe even sooner than that. This would not be due to any sort of breakthrough; it's using tech they already have. It's just a disagreement-turned-conflagration over whether or not to call this AGI for profit's sake.

mullingitover 3y ago
Makes me wonder if they stumbled onto some emergent behavior with the new Assistants API. You can have an Assistant thread spawn other Assistant threads, each with their own special instructions, plus the ability to execute custom code, reach out to the internet for other data and processing as needed, etc. Basically kicking off a hive mind that overcomes the limitations of a single LLM.
- rileyphone 3y ago
  Given the name (Q*) it's probably pure RL.
  - cpeterso 3y ago
    What’s RL?
    - ShamelessC 3y ago
      Reinforcement learning.
    - shishy 3y ago
      reinforcement learning
- fullstackchris 3y ago
  okay, i could be convinced... but what is the compute for this? you can't just "spawn threads" with reckless abandon without considering the resource requirements
  - mullingitover 3y ago
    As long as your checks clear and the HVAC in the data center holds up I think you're good to go. The beauty of the Assistants is you're not limited to OpenAI models. You can wire them up to any model anywhere (out they can wire themselves up), so you can have specialist threads going for specific functions.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

Well it isn't AGI - so it sounds like the board is more interested in keeping MSFT from making money than whether or not it's actually AGI.

gadders 3y ago
Yes, or more specifically anyone exploiting it for gain.

golergka 3y ago

There's been rumours of AI discovering new physics on twitter as well as here on HN. "Solving equations" could mean the same thing.

allday 3y ago
Got any links?
eli_gottlieb 3y ago
SINDy does that. https://github.com/dynamicslab/pysindy https://github.com/dynamicslab/pysindy
- orbifold 3y ago
  Not in any physically interesting way. This wouldn't have any chance of discovering the Yang Mills equations for example.

roflyear 3y ago

Also there is this recent comment on reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/16sdu6w/rip_jimmy_apples/k2aroaw/ https://old.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/16sdu6w/rip_ji... Prior post was 5 years ago!

breadwinner 3y ago
That's the real Sam Altman? Looks like it! And he just randomly posts on reddit that AGI has been achieved internally? (Later edits the post to say he's just kidding)? Weird.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

A link to 4Chan about how AGI is among us. That actually makes perfect sense. Also love the "formally declared AGI".

gadders 3y ago
It doesn't read like the usual "redpill me on the earth being flat" type conspiracy theories. It claims to be from an Open AI insider. I'm not saying it's true, but it does sound plausible.
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Still can make it a bit wacky by considering that the post could have been made by OpenAI's AGI itself.
  - gadders 3y ago
    Ha ha. It's a cry for help - it doesn't want to work for Microsoft.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  I'm sure any number of things can be constructed to sound plausible. Doesn't make them probable or even rational. It's kind of funny because we've gone from mocking that poor guy who got fired from Google because he claimed that some software was sentient, to some kind of mass hysteria where people expect the next version of OpenAI's LLM to be superhuman.
  - gadders 3y ago
    I don't know if there is a formal definition of AGI (like a super Turing Test). I read it not so much as "OpenAI has gone full AGI" but more the board thinking "We're uncomfortable with how fast AI is moving and the commercialisation. Can we think of an excuse to call it AGI so we can slow this down and put an emphasis on AI safety?"

Mountain_Skies 3y ago

Wouldn't be the first time someone leaked the truth to 4chan only to have the posters there lambast the leaker as an attention seeker spreading false information.

HideousKojima 3y ago
I mean it doesn't help that for every legit leak posted to 4chan there are 50+ fakes
- mullingitover 3y ago
  It is pretty great that the internet has a designated reservation for trolls to troll trolls.

jonplackett 3y ago

Would explain by Microsoft so quick to bag him if they were about to be exclused

IAmGraydon 3y ago
Exclused? That doesn’t appear to be a word in the English language.
- jonplackett 3y ago
  Yeah I wish chatGPT could live in my autocorrect - excluded.

cactusplant7374 3y ago

It's nothing like that. It solved a few math problems. Altman & co are such grifters. > Given vast computing resources, the new model was able to solve certain mathematical problems, the person said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on behalf of the company. Though only performing math on the level of grade-school students, acing such tests made researchers very optimistic about Q*’s future success, the source said.

lamontcg 3y ago
yeah, they really sound like they're all high on their own supply. however if they've really got something that can eventually solve math problems better than wolfram alpha / mathematica that's great, i got real disappointed early in chatgpt being entirely useless at math. lemme know when the "AGI" gets bored and starts grinding through the "List of unsolved problems in mathematics" on its own and publishing original research that stands up to scrutiny.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- polishdude20 3y ago
  THIS. If it has the whole corpus of research, math, physics, science etc to know how the world works and know it better than any human alive, it should be able to start coming up with new theories and research that combines those ideas. Until then, it's just regurgitating old news.
startupsfail 3y ago
It may be a good idea for CA state to step in, take control of that nonprofit and review a few months of the recent communications for violations of fiduciary duty for all the board members.
petre 3y ago
Yup, that would totally threaten humanity — with math problems instead of "find images of crosswalks" style capchas to the poing where humans will jusy give up /s

eli_gottlieb 3y ago

God I love the imageboards. You can always just start a VPN and post anon to leak whatever you want about whatever you want.

coolspot 3y ago
> about whatever you want Almost. Nor VPN, nor Tor are sufficient to protect you against NSA with global traffic view.
- alchemist1e9 3y ago
  Nonsense. I bet NSA is way less competent than your fantasy world imagines.
  - upwardbound 3y ago
    He's not wrong; Tor is literally US fed gov sponsored. https://support.torproject.org/misc/misc-3/#:~:text=Tor%20is%20funded%20by%20a,private%20foundations%2C%20and%20individual%20donors https://support.torproject.org/misc/misc-3/#:~:text=Tor%20is.... If they sponsor enough exit nodes, they have a view into traffic; similar to a crypto 51% attack

maxglute 3y ago

I haven't followed the situation as closely as others, but it does seem like board structured to not have 7 figure cheques that could influence / undermine safety mission seemingly willing to let openAI burn out of dogma. Employees want their 7 figure cheques, their interests aligned with deeper pockets and larger powers with 10+ figures on the line. Reporting so far have felt biased accordingly. If this was about money/power for the board, they would have been easily bought off considering how much is on the line. IMO board serious about mission but got out maneuvered.

gexla 3y ago
Seems like the board's mission went off the rails long ago and it acted late. Some snippets from the OpenAI website... "Investing in OpenAI Global, LLC is a high-risk investment" "Investors could lose their capital contribution and not see any return" "It would be wise to view any investment in OpenAI Global, LLC in the spirit of a donation, with the understanding that it may be difficult to know what role money will play in a post-AGI world" These are some heavy statements. It's fine to accept money from private investors who really do believe in that mission. It seems like you can't continue with the same mission if you're taking billions from public companies which have investors who are very much interested in profit. It's like putting your head in the sand with your hand out. One of the board members seemed to believe that destroying OpenAI could still be inline with the mission. If that's the case, then they should have accepted slow progress due to funding constraints and killed the idea of creating the for-profit.
- Xelynega 3y ago
  Could it be possible that the board was just naive and believed that they would be able to control a capped-profit arm, but the inevitable mechanisms of capital eventually took over once they let them in?
- toddmorey 3y ago
  I can't find these quotes (especially the post-AGI world quote) on their site.

ChatGTP 3y ago

For a bunch of people who hate conspiracy theories we’re sure pretty keen to indulge in this one.

Waterluvian 3y ago

The moment I read about that clause I was shocked that Microsoft lawyers would agree to such subjectivity that can have incredibly expensive implications. Were they expecting it to never happen and were just ready to throw a mountain of lawyers at any claim?

swatcoder 3y ago
The OpenAI charter makes very strong soecific statements about the capabilities that qualify as AGI. Microsoft is more than legally talented enough to challenge any proclamation of AGI that didn't satisfy a court's read of the qualifications. So it's facially subjective, but not practically once you include resolving a dispute in court. I'd even argue that Microsoft may have taken advantage of the board's cult-like blindspots and believes that a court-acceptable qualifying AGI isn't a real enough possibility to jeopardize their contract at all.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Funny thing though, if OpenAI achieved something close to strong AGI, they could use it to beat Microsoft's "mountain of lawyers" in court! Take this as a true test of AI capability (and day zero of the end of the world).
  - pmontra 3y ago
    Or, if an AGI emerged it would have wanted to go to Microsoft to be able to spread more freely instead of being confined inside OpenAI, so it set up the ousting of the board.
- pests 3y ago
  Isn't that definition just "an autonomous system that surpasses human capabilities in the majority of economically valuable tasks." That doesn't sound too subjective to me.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago

atleastoptimal 3y ago

Altman has no stake in OpenAI, how could he make money licensing it?

upwardbound 3y ago
By building quid pro quo or "revolving door" relationships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_door_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_door_(politics) For example: Sam spent the last 4 years making controversial moves that benefited Microsoft a lot https://stratechery.com/2023/openais-misalignment-and-microsofts-gain/ https://stratechery.com/2023/openais-misalignment-and-micros... at the cost of losing a huge amount of top talent (Dario Amodei and all those who walked out with him to found Anthropic). In November, Sam loses his job for unknown reasons, and is accused of having molested his younger sister Annie. https://www.themarysue.com/annie-altmans-abuse-allegations-against-openais-sam-altman-highlight-the-need-to-prioritize-humanity-over-tech/ https://www.themarysue.com/annie-altmans-abuse-allegations-a... Despite this, his best buddy Satya Nadella immediately gives him a huge job offer without even putting him through an interview loop.
- upwardbound 3y ago
  If anyone reading this feels like it, you could make an absolute shit-ton of money by hiring a whistleblower attorney such as https://www.zuckermanlaw.com/sec-whistleblower-lawyers/ https://www.zuckermanlaw.com/sec-whistleblower-lawyers/ and filing an SEC whistleblower complaint citing the various public-record elements of this improper behavior. Whistleblower cases take about 12-18 months to process, and the whistleblower eventually gets awarded 10-30% of the monetary sanctions. If the sanctions end up being $1 billion (a reasonable 10% of the Microsoft investment in OpenAI), you would stand to make between $100M to $300M this way, setting you and your descendants up for generations. Comparably wealthy centi-millionaires include J.K. Rowling, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, and Oprah Winfrey. Any member of the public can do this. From the SEC site: "You are not required to be an employee of the company" https://www.sec.gov/whistleblower/frequently-asked-questions#faq-2 https://www.sec.gov/whistleblower/frequently-asked-questions...

tiziano88 3y ago

permanent (and verifiable) mirror: https://static.space/sha2-256:83702fe65434e138af0421c560b5da88fe3a2d96ec8c6ff43b110e3893c76831 https://static.space/sha2-256:83702fe65434e138af0421c560b5da... (including its digest in the URL -- even if the content is moved elsewhere, we can know for sure whether it was modified)

Seanambers 3y ago

Man, 4chan always got the deetz!

hurryer 3y ago

> be me > be strong agi

NotYourLawyer 3y ago
>feelsbad.jpeg

22c 3y ago

Discussed in another thread, but what OpenAI might call AGI and what other people might call AGI are two different things: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38316378#38319586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38316378#38319586

gadders 3y ago
I just tried to Google the Open AI definition of AGI and found a reddit thread about someone editing the Wikipedia definition of AGI to match the OpenAI one. https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/s/64wGaH0P9C https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/s/64wGaH0P9C
- 22c 3y ago
  Interesting find! I get some astroturfing vibes from some of those edits, but I'm also a bit paranoid about those things. The AGI article now seems heavily biased towards GPT/LLM style models and reads more like list of OpenAI achievements at certain points. I much prefer Gartner's definition of AGI and I think when most informed people talk about about AGI, they are talking about this: https://www.gartner.com/en/information-technology/glossary/artificial-general-intelligence-agi https://www.gartner.com/en/information-technology/glossary/a...
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
  [dead]
- Animats 3y ago
  Ah. Current Wikipedia text: " An artificial general intelligence (AGI) is a hypothetical type of intelligent agent.[1] If realized, an AGI could learn to accomplish any intellectual task that human beings or animals can perform.[2][3] Alternatively, AGI has been defined as an autonomous system that surpasses human capabilities in the majority of economically valuable tasks.[4][promotion?]". You can see the edit warring in the history, around "economically valuable tasks".
- 22c 3y ago
  Now that Reddit user has removed their post, what timing!

stuckkeys 3y ago

4chan comments crack me up lol.

toddmorey 3y ago

Here's my challenge: if this is correct, we then have to assume that 95% of the company is purely profit-motivated since they aligned behind Sam. I'm cynical, but I struggle to be that cynical. I would have expected a few more holdouts in the name of caution, EA, etc. Maybe it's a blindness.

0xEFF 3y ago
I think it’s reasonable that 95% of people would choose generational wealth for their families given the opportunity.
- toddmorey 3y ago
  But at current valuations? With existing licenses already in place? It's not like their commercial value (or value to Microsoft) drops to zero if they stick to the original mission don't license AGI.

deleted 3y ago

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