9 ms·

> Maximal effects were found for tasks related to executive functions, (i.e., aspects of higher cognition principally associated with the functions of prefronta

by kortex 3y ago

> Maximal effects were found for tasks related to executive functions, (i.e., aspects of higher cognition principally associated with the functions of prefrontal cortex). Oh good, exactly what I'm looking for. If only the executive dysfunction didn't mess with my ability to form any kind of stable exercise routine.

dymk 3y ago
The hardest part of bootstrapping a routine with executive function problems is getting on medication to fix the executive function problems
- GrinningFool 3y ago
  Medication doesn't fix them though. It makes it possible for them to /be/ fixed -- but a lifetime of ingrained habit from when it was much more challenging is still a mountain to overcome.
pc86 3y ago
I don't say this to sound dismissive, which I think is all too common in discussions like this. If we're talking about aerobic exercise, you don't need to "form" anything. It's a monostructural movement. Buy a treadmill and jog on it for 20 minutes when you wake up. Buy a rower and do 5k every morning, or evening, or over lunch. Get a stationary bike and do 10 minutes on that whenever you remember to do it. This isn't strength training which benefits from having an actual program to follow put together by someone who knows what they're doing. Just pick a thing that you can do for 20 minutes without wanting to kill yourself, and do that thing for 20 minutes a few times a week. The most important part (in what the kids today would call "my lived experience") is to push yourself hard, sweat a lot, and do it at least 3 or 4 times a week. More is going to be better, especially at the beginning to build a habit, but twice a week is just sporadic enough where it's too easy to miss one and 2 becomes 1 becomes "once every 4 weeks." "Stable" also doesn't need to be the same amount of time at the same time of day on the same days every week.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  You are describing forming a stable routine I don't think GP meant "routine" as in an elaborate set of exercises, but rather the daily/weekly routine of doing any exercise at all.
  - pc86 3y ago
    Maybe. I'm more describing making this important enough to you that you start looking for places to slot it into your day. Yes, a routine will likely form out of that but I think it's secondary to getting you to want to do the thing, which is harder (at least for me).
    - phatskat 3y ago
      > I'm more describing making this important enough to you that you start looking for places to slot it into your day I get where you’re coming from, and I think you’re missing the point. Executive dysfunction (for me at least) means I can “want to do the thing” a LOT, heck I can even have the motivation, but getting my brain and body to actually do the damn thing can feel insurmountable. There are certainly ways to work with and around executive dysfunction, it’s just difficult that one of the key aspects of it is that it makes the act of executing feel incredibly difficult.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - agbrrw 3y ago
        I am the same kind of person, and believe me, it's a lost battle to try to explain how impossible it is to get to do something every day. People who are normal in that sense will never understand. Their concept of laziness or of that "ah, it's going to be hard to get on that treadmill today" feeling is completely different from ours. Their brains are wired differently. Just read the answer below > The only thing ever stopping you from going out the door and running is putting on shoes and shorts, its easy to form a habit! For people like us, this is akin to "if you are depressed, just cheer up!". It's ridiculous, bordering on the offensive.
beepbooptheory 3y ago
I don't have executive function disorder, but I have found the best thing for me is just, simply, running. You can reduce the friction getting from A to B a lot if from the beginning you resolve to be minimalist about it. Just buy shoes (don't think too much about it, go to running store and get fitted) and shorts, and... thats it. Don't try to get any other products, and don't even worry too much about how you do it. Just run, and measure your runs by time and not distance EDIT: The thing about time vs distance is that helps in running slow, very slow, slower than you think is appropriate, and you should take walking breaks as much as needed. You should not feel uncomfortable/destroyed at the end of a run, and at most minimally uncomfortable during. The only thing ever stopping you from going out the door and running is putting on shoes and shorts, its easy to form a habit! Only bad part is you get depressed when you don't get to run. EDIT: if you suffer from executive dysfunction disorder, this is not good advice, but running is awesome either way and will change your life in a small but significant way if you have the appropriate amount of neuro-typicality.
- phatskat 3y ago
  > I know what you mean I’m not sure that you do, because > The only thing ever stopping you from going out the door and running is putting on shoes and shorts, its easy to form a habit! feels very invalidating, as someone who struggles with an executive dysfunction disorder.
  - switchbak 3y ago
    I don't think they were talking to you specifically. They're probably just talking from their perspective, and don't have the knowledge of where you're at. If you feel invalidated, those are your feelings coming from inside you, not something they planted in you. Perhaps it's a sign that you have things you need to work on.
    - phatskat 3y ago
      They were responding to someone who started off saying they’re dealing with executive dysfunction. I do not know exactly how it affects GP, but I do know that typically it creates a crappy system of inaction despite intention, motivation, etc. And yes, I indeed have things I’m working on.
tomjen3 3y ago
An unstable execise rutine is better than no exercise routine.
Arcanum-XIII 3y ago
I found that using a calendar or some kind of tool where I can add a mark every time I do something I want to form an habit of, it helped. Especially with the fact that I also add my mark even if it's only 5 minutes. So it reduces the pressure tremendously if I fail, or change my mind. I moved from being mostly sedentary to being able to run 10km, swimming regularly, joining a field hockey team, doing archery. I also do hiit 3 times a week. Still my schedule is fucking chaotic, so beside the field hockey training which is on a fixed date, the other activities are done at, let's say, interesting and random time.
robrenaud 3y ago
Consider biking short distances if possible. Perhaps start with an ebike if your fitness level demands it. Since I've gotten fairly fit, I will outpace cars in city centers during busy times since I am not as influenced by traffic. Exercise becomes a time savings.
bitcurious 3y ago
I can’t articulate this as a how-to, but I’ve found that I can occasionally rewrite some low-level assumptions about myself in such a way that let me accomplish stuff. Like I convinced myself that working out every day isn’t a choice, it’s a default. It’s how I am. This means that the choice is to not work out, and that’s kind of lame, so no choice == working out.
- striking 3y ago
  Atomic Habits phrases this more or less as telling yourself e.g. "you are a runner" and then every time you could work out is an opportunity to prove it to yourself.
  - jassyr 3y ago
    This trick has helped me a lot. I think to myself "I'm the type of person that . . . " And it helps overcome the mental anguish of should I or shouldn't I. "I'm the type of person that works out everyday," and the decision has already been made.
niceice 3y ago
Read this book: Atomic Habits
- TheCleric 3y ago
  I did, and I could find no reward more appealing than "not doing that".
striking 3y ago
I found setting a really low Google Fit step goal and just trying to meet that daily goal 6/7 days a week was really helpful in just getting a basic foothold. And that basic foothold is kind of necessary when you're doing something you don't immediately want to do. After that, I came up with fun ways to meet that goal, like specific paths I might take or things I might do. It feels much less like work if there's some sort of reward along the way, like a coffee or something.
pton_xd 3y ago
> If only the executive dysfunction didn't mess with my ability to form any kind of stable exercise routine. It's not actually about any difficulty in establishing a stable routine. It'd be very easy for almost anyone to maintain a routine of eating snacks and watching Youtube for 20 minutes per day. The root issue is we've become conditioned to avoid discomfort. Collectively our mental fortitude relatively weak in this area. Engaging in an activity which requires enduring discomfort will be strongly avoided even if the benefits are clear. We need to figure out how to strengthen our mindset. Exercise is medicine! And requires exertion and discomfort.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > It's not actually about any difficulty in establishing a stable routine. It'd be very easy for most on here to maintain a routine of eating snacks and watching Youtube for 20 minutes per day. From GP's executive dysfunction reference I am assuming something like ADHD, and...you'd be surprised.
- delecti 3y ago
  Respectfully, you seem likely to not have ADHD. If I had "snacks and Youtube" on my calendar for 20 minutes every day, I would spend the preceding hour stressing about what video I would watch on a given day, and struggle to make myself go down to the kitchen to grab a snack when the time came. It's not even the discomfort, I enjoy exercise, it's overcoming the activation energy to get started. Executive dysfunction is fundamentally different from laziness in a way that a lot of people have trouble grasping.
  - pton_xd 3y ago
    Fair enough! Maybe the Youtube and snacks example was a bit misleading in that perspective. In my head exercise is in the same category of routine as brushing your teeth, showering, getting dressed, and feeding yourself. If one struggles with those on a daily basis then I agree that's a whole different issue. Putting a time slot for exercise on the calendar may work for some but in my view it's a more fundamental part of living.
p_j_w 3y ago
Have you tried approaching it with the idea that you don’t have to form a stable routine? The next time you’re sitting around with >20 minutes to kill, go for a run instead of doing social media/HN/Netflix/whatever it is you might do to kill time. If you found you woke up an hour early and can’t get back to sleep, go for a run. Maybe it’ll eventually lead to a routine, but maybe it won’t and that’s fine, too, you’re not trying to win a marathon. Running once is better than never, so no need to put pressure on yourself to form a stable routine.
- Doxin 3y ago
  This is how I managed to get weight lifting into my daily life. Worked for nearly a year. After which ?something? happened and now I've not done it in years. ADHD is a fickle mistress.
ddmf 3y ago
adhd sucks - i bought one of these pedal boxes so I could exercise while watching tv (i know, better than nothing though) and it was great until I moved it out of the way, now I can't see it I don't do it, and I remember when I'm not in front of it, think "oh i'll put it back" and then instantly forget.

by kortex 3y ago

dymk 3y ago

The hardest part of bootstrapping a routine with executive function problems is getting on medication to fix the executive function problems

GrinningFool 3y ago
Medication doesn't fix them though. It makes it possible for them to /be/ fixed -- but a lifetime of ingrained habit from when it was much more challenging is still a mountain to overcome.

pc86 3y ago

I don't say this to sound dismissive, which I think is all too common in discussions like this. If we're talking about aerobic exercise, you don't need to "form" anything. It's a monostructural movement. Buy a treadmill and jog on it for 20 minutes when you wake up. Buy a rower and do 5k every morning, or evening, or over lunch. Get a stationary bike and do 10 minutes on that whenever you remember to do it. This isn't strength training which benefits from having an actual program to follow put together by someone who knows what they're doing. Just pick a thing that you can do for 20 minutes without wanting to kill yourself, and do that thing for 20 minutes a few times a week. The most important part (in what the kids today would call "my lived experience") is to push yourself hard, sweat a lot, and do it at least 3 or 4 times a week. More is going to be better, especially at the beginning to build a habit, but twice a week is just sporadic enough where it's too easy to miss one and 2 becomes 1 becomes "once every 4 weeks." "Stable" also doesn't need to be the same amount of time at the same time of day on the same days every week.

ethanbond 3y ago
You are describing forming a stable routine I don't think GP meant "routine" as in an elaborate set of exercises, but rather the daily/weekly routine of doing any exercise at all.
- pc86 3y ago
  Maybe. I'm more describing making this important enough to you that you start looking for places to slot it into your day. Yes, a routine will likely form out of that but I think it's secondary to getting you to want to do the thing, which is harder (at least for me).
  - phatskat 3y ago
    > I'm more describing making this important enough to you that you start looking for places to slot it into your day I get where you’re coming from, and I think you’re missing the point. Executive dysfunction (for me at least) means I can “want to do the thing” a LOT, heck I can even have the motivation, but getting my brain and body to actually do the damn thing can feel insurmountable. There are certainly ways to work with and around executive dysfunction, it’s just difficult that one of the key aspects of it is that it makes the act of executing feel incredibly difficult.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - agbrrw 3y ago
      I am the same kind of person, and believe me, it's a lost battle to try to explain how impossible it is to get to do something every day. People who are normal in that sense will never understand. Their concept of laziness or of that "ah, it's going to be hard to get on that treadmill today" feeling is completely different from ours. Their brains are wired differently. Just read the answer below > The only thing ever stopping you from going out the door and running is putting on shoes and shorts, its easy to form a habit! For people like us, this is akin to "if you are depressed, just cheer up!". It's ridiculous, bordering on the offensive.

beepbooptheory 3y ago

I don't have executive function disorder, but I have found the best thing for me is just, simply, running. You can reduce the friction getting from A to B a lot if from the beginning you resolve to be minimalist about it. Just buy shoes (don't think too much about it, go to running store and get fitted) and shorts, and... thats it. Don't try to get any other products, and don't even worry too much about how you do it. Just run, and measure your runs by time and not distance EDIT: The thing about time vs distance is that helps in running slow, very slow, slower than you think is appropriate, and you should take walking breaks as much as needed. You should not feel uncomfortable/destroyed at the end of a run, and at most minimally uncomfortable during. The only thing ever stopping you from going out the door and running is putting on shoes and shorts, its easy to form a habit! Only bad part is you get depressed when you don't get to run. EDIT: if you suffer from executive dysfunction disorder, this is not good advice, but running is awesome either way and will change your life in a small but significant way if you have the appropriate amount of neuro-typicality.

phatskat 3y ago
> I know what you mean I’m not sure that you do, because > The only thing ever stopping you from going out the door and running is putting on shoes and shorts, its easy to form a habit! feels very invalidating, as someone who struggles with an executive dysfunction disorder.
- switchbak 3y ago
  I don't think they were talking to you specifically. They're probably just talking from their perspective, and don't have the knowledge of where you're at. If you feel invalidated, those are your feelings coming from inside you, not something they planted in you. Perhaps it's a sign that you have things you need to work on.
  - phatskat 3y ago
    They were responding to someone who started off saying they’re dealing with executive dysfunction. I do not know exactly how it affects GP, but I do know that typically it creates a crappy system of inaction despite intention, motivation, etc. And yes, I indeed have things I’m working on.

tomjen3 3y ago

An unstable execise rutine is better than no exercise routine.

Arcanum-XIII 3y ago

I found that using a calendar or some kind of tool where I can add a mark every time I do something I want to form an habit of, it helped. Especially with the fact that I also add my mark even if it's only 5 minutes. So it reduces the pressure tremendously if I fail, or change my mind. I moved from being mostly sedentary to being able to run 10km, swimming regularly, joining a field hockey team, doing archery. I also do hiit 3 times a week. Still my schedule is fucking chaotic, so beside the field hockey training which is on a fixed date, the other activities are done at, let's say, interesting and random time.

robrenaud 3y ago

Consider biking short distances if possible. Perhaps start with an ebike if your fitness level demands it. Since I've gotten fairly fit, I will outpace cars in city centers during busy times since I am not as influenced by traffic. Exercise becomes a time savings.

bitcurious 3y ago

I can’t articulate this as a how-to, but I’ve found that I can occasionally rewrite some low-level assumptions about myself in such a way that let me accomplish stuff. Like I convinced myself that working out every day isn’t a choice, it’s a default. It’s how I am. This means that the choice is to not work out, and that’s kind of lame, so no choice == working out.

striking 3y ago
Atomic Habits phrases this more or less as telling yourself e.g. "you are a runner" and then every time you could work out is an opportunity to prove it to yourself.
- jassyr 3y ago
  This trick has helped me a lot. I think to myself "I'm the type of person that . . . " And it helps overcome the mental anguish of should I or shouldn't I. "I'm the type of person that works out everyday," and the decision has already been made.

niceice 3y ago

Read this book: Atomic Habits

TheCleric 3y ago
I did, and I could find no reward more appealing than "not doing that".

striking 3y ago

I found setting a really low Google Fit step goal and just trying to meet that daily goal 6/7 days a week was really helpful in just getting a basic foothold. And that basic foothold is kind of necessary when you're doing something you don't immediately want to do. After that, I came up with fun ways to meet that goal, like specific paths I might take or things I might do. It feels much less like work if there's some sort of reward along the way, like a coffee or something.

pton_xd 3y ago

> If only the executive dysfunction didn't mess with my ability to form any kind of stable exercise routine. It's not actually about any difficulty in establishing a stable routine. It'd be very easy for almost anyone to maintain a routine of eating snacks and watching Youtube for 20 minutes per day. The root issue is we've become conditioned to avoid discomfort. Collectively our mental fortitude relatively weak in this area. Engaging in an activity which requires enduring discomfort will be strongly avoided even if the benefits are clear. We need to figure out how to strengthen our mindset. Exercise is medicine! And requires exertion and discomfort.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> It's not actually about any difficulty in establishing a stable routine. It'd be very easy for most on here to maintain a routine of eating snacks and watching Youtube for 20 minutes per day. From GP's executive dysfunction reference I am assuming something like ADHD, and...you'd be surprised.
delecti 3y ago
Respectfully, you seem likely to not have ADHD. If I had "snacks and Youtube" on my calendar for 20 minutes every day, I would spend the preceding hour stressing about what video I would watch on a given day, and struggle to make myself go down to the kitchen to grab a snack when the time came. It's not even the discomfort, I enjoy exercise, it's overcoming the activation energy to get started. Executive dysfunction is fundamentally different from laziness in a way that a lot of people have trouble grasping.
- pton_xd 3y ago
  Fair enough! Maybe the Youtube and snacks example was a bit misleading in that perspective. In my head exercise is in the same category of routine as brushing your teeth, showering, getting dressed, and feeding yourself. If one struggles with those on a daily basis then I agree that's a whole different issue. Putting a time slot for exercise on the calendar may work for some but in my view it's a more fundamental part of living.

p_j_w 3y ago

Have you tried approaching it with the idea that you don’t have to form a stable routine? The next time you’re sitting around with >20 minutes to kill, go for a run instead of doing social media/HN/Netflix/whatever it is you might do to kill time. If you found you woke up an hour early and can’t get back to sleep, go for a run. Maybe it’ll eventually lead to a routine, but maybe it won’t and that’s fine, too, you’re not trying to win a marathon. Running once is better than never, so no need to put pressure on yourself to form a stable routine.

Doxin 3y ago
This is how I managed to get weight lifting into my daily life. Worked for nearly a year. After which ?something? happened and now I've not done it in years. ADHD is a fickle mistress.

ddmf 3y ago

adhd sucks - i bought one of these pedal boxes so I could exercise while watching tv (i know, better than nothing though) and it was great until I moved it out of the way, now I can't see it I don't do it, and I remember when I'm not in front of it, think "oh i'll put it back" and then instantly forget.