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Apple to pause advertising on X after Musk backs antisemitic post
- hn1986 3y agoApple spends tens of millions on Twitter.. this is huge. and opens the gates for any other brand to stop advertising
- upon_drumhead 3y agoExcept it's just a "pause", so other brands can take it either way at this point
- KerrAvon 3y agoIBM and the EU are also "pauses." So yeah, but that's how this works.
- brookst 3y agoIt would be crazy to say anything other than pause. Why lock yourself in to some kind of permanent decision regardless of anything that changes?
- concinds 3y agoIt had to be a "pause", because it they said it was permanent, there was a risk of Musk lashing out and calling them out publicly.
- trogdor 3y agoCalling them out publicly how? For not wanting to spend money on his platform after he endorsed an unambiguously anti-Semitic statement? In response to a post that claimed Jewish communities support “hatred against whites,” Musk replied “You have said the actual truth.” He is the one being called out. What’s he gonna say? That Apple hates South Africans?
- concinds 3y agoYou're ignoring the fact that he's repeatedly attacked advertisers by name for leaving, for example for "hating free speech" or being "too left-wing", and that conservative influencers have in the past rallied these efforts by calling for boycotts. You're focusing on whether his attacks would be morally legitimate, which is besides the point (that hasn't stopped Musk in the past). His base would find it convincing, because many on the right refuse to admit that it was antisemitic.
- rsynnott 3y agoThey’re not going to say “we’re never ever advertising on Twitter again”. Like, if nothing else, Naughty Old Mr Car may not be running it forever.
- potatopatch 3y agoI find it odd that they feel the need to do that kind of advertising. They seem like the company that has made it as a brand and should be best served by broadcast advertising, word of mouth, paid/unpaid placement, etc.
- threatofrain 3y agoApple relies on specific advertising for to be well coordinated with their presentations and product releases.
- figassis 3y agoThey're still trying to eat into the PC market
- pjmlp 3y agoIBM already did it as well.
- rvz 3y agoHardly. Yet another storm in a teacup to drive up emotions again. Hence 'pause'. Pausing advertising for Twitter / X to clean up the mess on there and once everyone has calmed down for bit and is fed up with the coverage of Elon Musk 24/7 in their heads, Apple (and IBM) will continue to advertise once again, business as usual. I'm yet to see the uproar by Apple fans of Apple's so-called 'ethics' in China whilst they're profiting and benefiting from forced labor, just like when Facebook was called out for profiting from a genocide. Exactly. There is none.
- dgb23 3y agoIt seems like people care more about internet drama than about actual exploitation and oppression… The former seems to be something we can get involved in, but the latter seems insurmountable.
- dylan604 3y agoUnless Musk sales Twitt...er, X, when do you think coversation will not be about him?
- wwtrv 3y ago> Apple's so-called 'ethics' in China whilst they're profiting and benefiting from forced labor Just like almost every single other company which is making consumer electronics? And I don't think the conditions in Foxconn factories making Apple stuff are below average working conditions wise compare to the rest of China.
- true_religion 3y agoThe worry about China is odd. Human rights abuses are illegal in theory. If the US, believes China is so corrupt that it turns a blind eye to slavery then it should ban trade with that burgeoning slave state. We shouldn’t expect companies to do investigative work into actual crimes, nor make judgements about the morality of international trade. Lately it seems that people no longer look to governments to do their job. People ask for Uber to investigate rape cases, rather than the police. People expect universities to determine guilt on felony cases, rather than the actual judicial system. We should stop. We set up centralized government so we would end private fiefdoms. We cannot give private groups this sort of mandate. They don’t deserve it and cannot be trusted with it.
- Dig1t 3y agoSomewhat interesting that the full context of the thread is not published or any discussion around it, only the one sentence from Musk and a few words from the post to which he was responding.
- xenospn 3y agoWhat possible context could have made this any better?
- xcv123 3y ago[flagged]
- Dig1t 3y agoThe ADL also defines racism as something that only white people are capable of. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-racism-definition/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac... They changed the definition in 2022 from: "Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another." to "The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people." There is at least SOME nuance here.
- xcv123 3y ago[flagged]
- pharrington 3y agoThe is nothing "anti-white" about acknowledging race based privilege in a given society.
- xenospn 3y ago[flagged]
- 0xy 3y ago[flagged]
- rvz 3y ago> Extremely racist. Said about any other race it would be roundly condemned. The ADL is immune from criticism despite being an inherently racist organization. Why? Unfortunately, you are not going to get a grown up answer to this question here, since many of those unpopular questions are ready to be shut down immediately. For the others, let's keep it civil and we can all agree that no race should be hating on another race. Doesn't matter if you're white, black, green, orange, blue, whatever.
- InvestorType 3y ago[flagged]
- xenospn 3y ago[flagged]
- 0xy 3y ago[flagged]
- hyperhello 3y agoWithout saying anything else: I’m tired of seeing the word antisemetic used as such a thoughtless hate cliche. Palestinians are also Semites speaking Arabic and Hebrew.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- happytoexplain 3y agoThis seems pedantic - I think it's well understood that "antisemitism" means anti-Jewishness despite the definition of the word Semite. Sometimes words from the same root have varying meanings, colloquially, which eventually come to be definitive differences. That's just language. It doesn't have anything to do with whether it is a "hate cliche" (not sure exactly what you mean by that).
- drdaeman 3y agoIsn’t it coming overall from the same people who believe language nuances matter and who push for all sorts of language changes? (That’s a honest question - I’m not sure, just had a thought I might be seeing an inconsistency. Really, I could be wrong here.)
- kps 3y agoThe word “antisemitism” was popularized in late 19th century Germany by Jew-haters looking for a ‘scientific’ racial justification, since the traditional religious justification was becoming unfashionable. It has never meant anything else. “Semitic”, on its own, is a language group. But for some reason I can't possibly imagine, nobody ever says “Ethiopians are semites too”.
- hackerlight 3y agoLearn what compound words are, and learn what etymology is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
- InvestorType 3y ago[flagged]
- hulitu 3y ago[flagged]
- ars 3y agoFirst of all, no they aren't. I have showdead on, and there's just one removed thread, and it was killed for a good reason. And is "motivation for his post" a code for "let's bash Jews, they had it coming"? > Why can't this be topic even be discussed? Yah, I've seen this kind of language before. "Why can't we discuss how Jews deserve their antisemitism?"
- InvestorType 3y ago[flagged]
- Throwfi44 3y ago[flagged]
- Dig1t 3y agoIt's very true, you have to have a Twitter account otherwise it's really hard to tell what the heck is going on.
- throw310822 3y agoWhatever one can think of Musk's political orientation (I personally dislike it, his anti-wokism has become too extreme for my taste), if some Jewish organisations appear to engage in political activism of a specific kind, isn't it legitimate to criticise their political stances? Or should they be shielded from criticism because they're Jewish? Or should criticism be directed as towards no one in particular, to avoid mentioning their religious/ ethnic connotation?
- happytoexplain 3y ago>isn't it legitimate to criticise their political stances Yes. >should they be shielded from criticism No. >should criticism be directed as towards no one in particular No. Frankly I don't really think these are challenging questions, but I also don't think the answers affect the (un)reasonableness of Musk's comment given the specific words of the thread he was replying to.
- justapassenger 3y agoIf you criticize one religiously affiliated organization - there's a chance they're the problem. If you constantly criticize many organization/people affiliated with that religion - there's a chance you're the problem. Musk did WAY WAY more than criticize just one jewish organization.
- Dig1t 3y agoHere he is defending the Jewish state from calls to violence https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435 There is more nuance here than what the article is saying.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoThere was no nuance in his post, despite there being ample room for it. Nor would "nuance" have helped when the substance was him agreeing with bad stuff said about jews. Like, what would the nuance be? "Actually I believe the exact opposite, nuance yannow?" He could have posted "the bad stuff you said about jews was wrong". But nope, he did the exact opposite. He agreed with the bad stuff said about jews. Nuff said. It was just him agreeing. Period. Any other post is a distraction. Other posts don't cancel out this one showing how he feels about jews.
- handsclean 3y agoContext: https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299 https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299
- Freedom2 3y agoI wonder if this is a staged controversy to draw attention away from the CyberTruck's recent failings. Many on HN believe that Musk operates at a higher plane of existence, so maybe it's related?
- potatopatch 3y agoHis behaviors seem more like personal coping dysfunction to me. Maybe it was more beneficial in the past where everyone else was making their volume, but here it mostly just burns future good will, and for what? No one is going to have a lot to sell this year, but people who would have bought a US EV when capacity normalizes are going to buy a Chinese EV because he has bothered to make this personal connection that overrides any abstract ethical concerns.
- CodeWriter23 3y agoCalling out the ADL’s racism isn’t antisemitic. It’s anti-racist. Here’s a simple test, would you call out racists regardless of their ethnicity? If the answer is yes, it’s not racist. If no, then you are racist. Period.
- happytoexplain 3y agoI believe the ADL is not immune from being racist and has arguably engaged in racism, but I also believe that the post Musk was lauding was unreasonable and hateful. They aren't the mutually exclusive opinions you are implying they are. If that person had made a comment in the same format with the same tone about white people, I would feel the same way.
- trealira 3y agoHe conflated the ADL with western Jewish populations, though, and agreed that Jewish communities as a whole have been spreading anti-white hatred, not just the ADL. https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299#m https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299#m >> Okay. >> Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them. >> I'm deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about western Jewish populations coming to the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don't exactly like them too much. >> You want truth said to your face, there it is. > You have said the actual truth. > The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel. > This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat. >It is not right and needs to stop.
- anonymousab 3y agoPeople are going to read "Jewish communties" as "the Jews" with posts like this. The posters know it, we know it, and the advertisers know it. In positions like his, Musk should damn well know it too. It doesn't matter how unreasonable that is or isn't, it's clear how advertisers are going to react to something like this.
- misja111 3y agoAfter a lot of searching I managed to find some context about the post here: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/15/media/elon-musk-antisemitism-white-people/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/15/media/elon-musk-antisemit...
- ratsmack 3y ago>Antisemitic incidents in the United States reached a record high in 2022, according to the ADL. Is the ADL the de facto authority on determining what verbiage is a slight against Jewish people?
- whearyou 3y agoIt's a consensus organization that 90% of Jews right and left don't love but can generally agree on trusting for determining what is antisemitic and what isn't
- pauldenton 3y agoinstead of speculating what Jewish people who are Republican or Democrat think of the ADL, couldn't we actually poll them?
- kwere 3y agoADL showed a lot of ethnic bias in "exposing" hamas simpatizers compared to the demographics of such simpatizers. This organization and others (ACLU,BLM,...) hide behind "mighty missions" to covertly push narratives of its boards, revolving doors to political/influential positions. Usually such organizations focus mostly on "awareness" (manufactured consent, political propaganda) and fund raising ( guilt based extortions and publicity stunts / tax write off for corpos), most of their funds get eaten in administrative (good salaries) / fund raising expenses instead of helping whatever cause
- jiggawatts 3y agoIf I understand it correctly, Musk is criticising the ADL for having a policy the implies that only whites can be racist because of white privilege… or something to the effect? Am I missing something? What’s the big controversy here?
- justapassenger 3y agoYes, you're missing many other Musk's attacks (both open and using dog whistle) on the jewish people.
- jiggawatts 3y agoSome people have mentioned "dog whistle" attacks, but the stuff they linked to doesn't actually appear to be of that nature. Is it possible that people are just making assumptions and/or reading too much into his tweets? To me this seems like a storm in a teacup...
- Dig1t 3y agoPretty much, yes. From Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724933980276084909 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724933980276084909 Article from CNN talking about their definition of racism. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-racism-definition/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac... The ADL's definition: "The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people." Also they have defined saying "it's okay to be white" as hateful language. https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/its-okay-be-white https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/its-okay-be-white There are a few other such examples, such as statements from ADL leadership. The controversy is that people are calling this antisemitism
- Rebelgecko 3y agoThe article seems to say that the ADL stopped using that definition years ago. Why did he wait until this week to tweet about it? Especially by replying to a vague tweet about "Jewish communities"? Seems more like damage control to me
- youcantcook 3y ago[flagged]
- wdb 3y ago[flagged]
- shadowgovt 3y agoLionsgate has now followed suit. Today's a good day to no longer be a publicly-traded company under the symbol TWTR, because they'd be taking a bath on this news. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-17/lionsgate-has-suspended-all-advertising-on-x-spokesman-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-17/lionsgate...
- zzzcsgo 3y ago[flagged]
- zzzcsgo 3y ago[flagged]