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I don't really have an opinion on TikTok, but maybe more on the social harmony part. But just an observation as I'm getting older. Restricting your choices in l
by dukeofdoom 3y ago
I don't really have an opinion on TikTok, but maybe more on the social harmony part. But just an observation as I'm getting older. Restricting your choices in life, can often lead to good outcomes. Like what you eat, drink, who you socialize with, what you watch, who you sleep with, what you read...it's a long list.
Choice is great, but can be overwhelming.
Not that I'm for minimalism. But I'm guessing Nepal has a religious government...Buddhist? And like many other religions, part of it is restricting the behaviour of the adherents. Which like I mentioned before, is not always bad.
If the majority of the country feels this way, why should you push your Western Values on them.
- Waterluvian 3y agoIf there’s a majority who support this then they should just self-regulate and go on their merry way. This is always about imposing one’s beliefs on others. “Social harmony” is intentionally vague. Everyone will imagine their own meaning of that and be inclined to think, “yeah that’s something I’m on board with.”
- rayiner 3y agoThat’s just libertarianism applied to social issues, and has the same problems as libertarianism as applied to economic issues. People need social support to help them understand what decisions are good, and make good decisions. How many overweight and obese doctors and nurses are there? They’re only slightly healthier than the general population: https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/healthcare/why-don-t-doctors-and-nurses-have-more-healthy-lifestyles https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/healthcare/why-don-t-doctor.... Smart, educated Americans can’t force themselves to limit their eating. But in say east Asia, extensive social shaming over weight helps people stay slim. Humans didn’t evolve to be libertarian sovereign individuals. They’re members of communities and their welfare can be increased by allowing community reinforcement of good behaviors and decisions.
- Waterluvian 3y agoI dunno… I apply this sentiment to Christian Republicanism and it concerns me greatly. They also have a lot to say about what disrupts social harmony. And of course, it’s what they’ve decided “social harmony” means to them.
- rayiner 3y agoWhat you’re calling “Christian republicanism” is just how the entire US was until the liberal social revolution of the mid-20th century.
- Waterluvian 3y agoIt’s true. And there will always be resistance to sociocultural evolution and those who want to freeze the status quo.
- rayiner 3y agoFrom an “evolutionary” standpoint mid-20th century western liberalism seems to be a dead end, as its adherents are literally dying off and being replaced by people from more robust cultures.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dukeofdoom 3y ago> it’s what they’ve decided “social harmony” means to them". I think both sides, the secular humanists and the religious are prone to make stuff up, as it suits their needs. I was watching the Matt Dillahunty Vs Andrew debate. And Andrew gives a very rational counter to the current secular world view. https://youtu.be/S8U34ezKvrU?t=864 https://youtu.be/S8U34ezKvrU?t=864
- viraptor 3y ago> But in say east Asia, extensive social shaming over weight helps people stay slim. Does it help people stay slim with fewer overall negative effects then if people didn't stay slim? Eating disorders and mental health do come into the equation. There's many ways to keep people slim that doesn't result in a healthier society.
- kelipso 3y agoBeing fat is in itself an eating disorder.
- spookie 3y agoYou're generalising that small sample too much. Even their findings suggest healthcare professionals exercise more, and smoke less. As for "living in a community", I would trust more the kindness and humanity in general, than the same of a select group. By this I mean, alignment of good behaviour comes naturally from one's experience. And I guess I agree with you to an extent. But, I take the general sentiment of your post as advertising collectivism. Which, from personal experience, has a tendency to be non-inclusive. The worst of it comes in subtle ways. Causing considerable harm to anyone that steers just a little bit from the norm. But, that in no way is a harm to others.
- rayiner 3y ago> But, I take the general sentiment of your post as advertising collectivism. Which, from personal experience, has a tendency to be non-inclusive. The worst of it comes in subtle ways. Causing considerable harm to anyone that steers just a little bit from the norm. Yes, I do think western society has become too individualist, to its detriment. I also agree that collectivist societies can be non-inclusive. But the flip side of that is that it can be better for the people in the middle 80%. I think your average person, especially your average young person, needs more social guidance than contemporary, highly individualist western society is willing to provide. It also makes it difficult to achieve anything that requires solidarity and social coordination.
- collaborative 3y agoI will join you in being downvoted. Social shaming is necessary. We need to hold each other accountable or future generations wont stand a chance Also, shame is a language everyone understands. All ages
- Waterluvian 3y agoYou can certainly try to shame people into adopting your rigid ideology, religion, and culture. People have tried time and time again. That doesn’t make it right.
- collaborative 3y agoNuh, dont want to use shame for that. Only for things like stopping 5 year olds from showing their private parts in class. Cant even do that anymore
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago> People need social support to help them understand what decisions are good, and make good decisions. you mean to make the decisions you consider good.
- foobarian 3y agoI don't know what's going on with Nepal, but I noticed a sudden influx of specifically Nepalese migrant workers in East Europe. It's odd given how small that country is, and also because the area they visit for work is not that great itself. How bad can it be in Nepal then?!?
- kube-system 3y agoNepal is not a rich country. Income per capita is just over $1000 per year.
- blackoil 3y agoWow you discovered, there are poor people in the world. Also, Nepal has a population of 30 million, so not so small.
- wpasc 3y agoTikTok is a Chinese company, how is that an instance of Western Values being pushed?
- Cpoll 3y agoTikTok hosts "Western" content, doesn't it? China has Douyin (same app, different content) afaik.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoTikTok is full of Asian content that it promotes: there is still so much Chinese, Korean, Japanese, even some Indian content on tiktok even in an average westerner's feed. Some of this is straight taken form Douyin (by content creators in those country who want to earn money on tiktok).
- oefrha 3y ago> Some of this is straight taken form Douyin (by content creators in those country who want to earn money on tiktok). Having helped a Chinese friend taking down a couple of impersonating/infringing TikTok accounts, I believe the overwhelming majority of the content taken straight from Douyin is unauthorized, by people who think the original creators won’t notice and/or won’t do anything about it. It’s not like you can easily earn a meaningful amount from TikTok’s Creator Fund, so better focus on streaming or getting sponsorship deals for the Douyin market which is a lot larger and culturally aligned.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoA lot of the cultural movement on TikTok is Korean driven, or multi cultural, like the popularity of that Vietnamese See Tinh in Korea via a TikTok remix. TikTok is incredibly Asian, and gets lots of air from non-PRC Chinese communities (like mainland Douyin content on TikTok with traditional Chinese comments).
- steve_taylor 3y ago
- rayiner 3y ago> If the majority of the country feels this way, why should you push your Western Values on them. While social permissiveness is distinctly a phenomenon of the west, I wouldn’t characterize “western values” by that single phase. For most of the history of the American Republic, it was taken for granted the government could regulate morality as an aspect of the public welfare. Regulation of businesses believed to be morally harmful, such as strip clubs and pornographic magazines, was deemed within the scope of government power into the mid-20th century, until anti-democratic Supreme Court decisions interpreted constitutional provisions in ways that would have shocked the people who wrote them.
- kube-system 3y agoI took the parent to be referring to contemporary western values.
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoIndeed, as the classical and Christian notions of freedom, as opposed to the liberal variety, entails self-discipline, self-denial, and the restraint, disciplining, and purification of the appetites through things like fasting and abstinence.
- all2 3y agoAnd Justice. True justice is missing from the West.
- dukeofdoom 3y agoKind of ... Would a native Hawaiian, consider themselves free, that they live under Western Laws. They have western freedoms, and democracy, and all the shiny trinkets. But now also lack autonomy, and the real control over their native land. Democracy is kind of useless to a Native Hawaiian, when they'll be outvoted by outsiders every time. I think plenty of them would just want their land back. And Westerners can shove it. I think "contemporary western values" is just a feel good saying, a pretty wrapper, on economic expansionist policy ... globalism. And there are plenty of taboo topics in the West too, and it's enforced as well. Celebrities have handlers, FBI goes around planting informants and extorting dissenters for political gain. People get canceled, fired from jobs for saying dissenting opinions. And its done in the name of "social harmony" and greater good here as well.
- SanjayMehta 3y agoNepal is mostly Hindu. In fact it was the last Hindu kingdom in the world.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- isodev 3y ago“Western Values” is one of those words populist rhetoric just loves to conjugate. Government enforcing “social harmony” by limiting access to entertainment and cultural outlets is just another form of political censorship.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dukeofdoom 3y agoThere's plenty of choice of media in the West. But its like having 50 different flavours of Chips in a supper market. It's mostly the same few political ideas peddled with different wrapper. And what you think free, is actually pretty controlled and contrived.
- spookie 3y agoIs that so? I find a lot of value in certain Fediverse instances. They don't seem contrived, just humane (I know some aren't, I don't intend to go to those).
- dukeofdoom 3y agoMy comment was about the mainstream media, with actual public reach and influence. I don't even know what Fediverse is and I'm a computer guy. Imagine the general population.
- hgarg 3y agoNepal is currently ruled by a coalition of secular communist or socialist parties
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoPerhaps ironically (given the somewhat corrupted attribution to Alexandra Kollontai of the flippant remark that "the satisfaction of one's sexual desires should be as simple as getting a glass of water"), Stalin reeled in some of the sexual excesses that characterized the early Soviet regime, because, as it turns out, sex is indeed dangerous and deserving of honor and respect, and sexual degeneracy is a sure way to propel a society toward self-destruction and chaos.
- equinoxnemesis 3y agoI care about the people in Nepal who don't want their government to restrict their access to the web. The people who want to be restricted in that way can exercise self-control.
- mantas 3y agoIt’s like smoking in public places. People who don’t want smoking in their faces can find non-smoker cafes! Once such cafe pops up, some people will complain that it’s messing with human rights to smoke.
- selimthegrim 3y agoYou’re thinking of Bhutan. Nepal has literal Maoists in government.
- mock-possum 3y agoI think the key is to start with far less restriction then you think you need, and refine your approach over time until you hit upon a happy medium, that allows novel experiences while limiting irrecoverable consequences.
- dhruval 3y agoTheir current Prime Minister is from the Communist Party. It used to be a Hindu monarchy but one of the princes did a murder suicide with the whole royal family around 2002 or so.
- throwaway2037 3y agoBut I'm guessing Nepal has a religious government...Buddhist? Wiki says (top three): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nepal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nepal Religion in Nepal (2021) Hinduism (81.19%) Buddhism (8.21%) Islam (5.09%)
- moring 3y ago> Restricting your choices in life, can often lead to good outcomes. The article isn't about somebody restricting their own choices in life, but about the Nepalese government restricting others' choices in life, which is an entirely different thing.
- Lutger 3y agoIts a different thing, but not entirely. Having your choices restricted, by a government of all things, is something most Western people especially Americans find obscene. But it can also lead to good outcomes at considerable less effort. In a sense every government does this. It restricts the ability of its citizens to violently harm each other for example. Or of companies to poison the land. Or even of drivers to not wear seat belts, something which doesn't even harm others. All those are relatively uncontroversial restrictions on personal liberty.
- hacker_88 3y agoThere is a religious angle to it . it comes from christian conversion , spread more rapid after earthquake and in the name of aid . Let's not forget the divisive angles that get exploited in the name of Caste System of Hinduism but Buddhists in far flung places are being converted as well as well as people of older,native cultures . Tiktok made it easy to peddle a victimhood and prosecution complex to the masses . Deplore the current religion , festivals , cultural aspects etc . Send direct hate against a certain group , caste of people who are supposed to be more privileged and outsider. As per western values , things are mostly fine . LGBTQ is protected . Nepal ranks better in all Democratic and Human rights aspects . Freedom of press and so on .Leads in women rights and labors . Gay marriage is allowed but has fell short on bureaucratic paperworks related to it .