14 ms·

Having been at different levels in engineering (from junior up through C) there are a few things I've learned along the way. (1) Everyone needs to operate in g

Having been at different levels in engineering (from junior up through C) there are a few things I've learned along the way. (1) Everyone needs to operate in good faith. I've observed leaders ask their direct reports for something off-hand, without giving it more than 5 seconds of thought. I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. (2) If you're a manager/leader, there are no "one-off" requests. Any ask carries an implicit priority over everything else. You have to work within the overall system and environment, otherwise you are forcing your team to make choices about those things. Don't be this kind of manager/leader. (3) If you're the one receiving an ask, help your requestor understand what's involved. Eliminate implicit assumptions; that's where the dragons lie. Communicate, inform, educate. Nail down what the requestor wants and be sure you both agree. We do these things in the name of efficiency, of not wanting to waste time if it's not necessary. I've found if we all try to help each other in these requestor-requestee situations, it generally makes life much more tolerable.

chiefalchemist 3y ago
> Nail down what the requestor wants and be sure you both agree. I don't want to nitpick but the change of a single word is going to make significant difference in the outcome, time spent, satisfaction, next steps, etc. Nail down what the requestor *needs* and be sure you both agree... I wish I had $20 for everytime the initial "I want..." followed by a couple of questions - or even the famous The 5 Whys - evolved into the true (business) need.
- jroseattle 3y ago
  That's right. It's all part of the back-and-forth of good faith.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    It's also why senior's are so important and why the dichotomy between product people and technical people is so inane and stupid. There are developers that just want to keep their head down and write code, you'll never get those people to ask the questions that are being suggested here.
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      True. The problem is, eventually those devs will want to be promoted and yet haven't exhibited any business acumen or any skills outside their technology focus. When new / jr devs ask me what they should learn, I say: business, marketing, etc, and improve your comms skills ( speaking, writing, and listening). That's not the answer they get typically.
    - mock-possum 3y ago
      Yeah honestly I know I’m capable of asking those kinds of questions, but I’ve been realizing lately that I just don’t want to. I want other people to figure their shit out first, then come to me when it’s ready to be built.
      - chiefalchemist 3y ago
        Few users / clients actually know tho'. They think in wants. They think in - because of past disappointments - what they can get. They think in what they think the boss wants. They rarely think in actual biz needs. You can give them *exactly* what they ask for and still be wrong. The user / client isn't going to admit that. Nah. They'll just play the "Damn IT" card and it'll be back to the drawing board but now with a shit load of tension. It's best to ask - sooner rather than later.
        another2another 3y ago
        But expecting anybody to know all the details about a request, as well as the consequences to other bits of functionality in a system (especially if it's still being built) is unrealistic. Most people have a vague idea of the outcome they want, and the reason for it. They also quickly know what they don't want _once they see it_ And that's why agile and iterative development is actually great for GUI based user interactive app development.
        PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
        well shit, you should just roll over on your back and cry until someone puts a bottle in your mouth then. One of the advantages of being helpless is not taking responsibility.
- electrondood 3y ago
  "Can you tell me more about why you want X?" They actually need Y. Time saved.
  - snerbles 3y ago
    The real fun begins when an executive skips down the chain to directly order you to provide X, accompanied with another order forbidding any further efforts on Y. Then, six months later, said executive shows back up demanding to know why you haven't provisioned this great Y thingamajig that his golf buddy was raving about.
qsort 3y ago
> I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. I've had managers give stupid orders, and seen them immediately backpedal when asked "would you write that down for me, please?" So yeah, I'll definitely act in good faith but unfortunately I can't assume good faith on the other side, I occasionally need to be a human command line.
- jroseattle 3y ago
  > I've had managers give stupid orders I'd suggest that "good faith" means turning those stupid orders into sane orders. In a case like this, help your manager -- educate them. If your relationship is tenuous, I get this can be hard. Show your good faith and explain to your manager in clear detail why something is stupid. Manage up, as they say.
  - pphysch 3y ago
    Sometimes a manager will just throw something out there. "Can we get a dashboard for this (thing that has come up 0-1 times)". Feeding into those whims is rarely good for anyone, except the manager's ego.
  - lazyasciiart 3y ago
    A lot of the time they don’t need education, they need reminding to think. The request to write it down achieves that.
- maccard 3y ago
  The only time I've ever had a report ask me to confirm something in writing it was clear they were operating in CYA mode, but weren't willing to talk to me about why. It's the sort of thing that immediately escalates a situation, and in reality when the card is played it either breaks the trust, or the trust has already been broken.
  - smugma 3y ago
    I often ask people to write up requests and often write up my own verbal requests to provide documentation of the ask and allow for clarification. Over time I’ve learned that my verbal requests often leave out important details and then people make assumptions that aren’t always right.
everdrive 3y ago
Point #2 is correct, but there’s no good reason it _has_ to be correct. Why can’t we tell management that a question they asked is non-sensical? The answer of course is that you don’t buck the hierarchy. But this adherence to hierarchy doesn’t actually help the business. It seems like this is a value which needs to be more easily discarded.
- spacephysics 3y ago
  I think it’s important to make those requests as minimal as possible. If we have a well oiled system of Jira tickets, estimates, and expectations for each sprint, these one off requests fly under the radar and impede engineer performance and expectations You could have a percent of each sprint dedicated to one-offs, but then are they really one-offs in the colloquial sense? The smaller the team and org, the easier it is to handle the one-offs (imo), because we can more directly connect the request to tangible impact more often. At the very least, in a small co your manager (or C suite executive) would easily back you up as the engineer if other executives were questioning output or something etc etc In larger orgs the extra communication burden makes the one off requests more expensive
- jroseattle 3y ago
  > Why can’t we tell management that a question they asked is non-sensical? You should absolutely do that (I tell my team to inform me if what I'm asking doesn't make sense.) If I'm coming to someone with a request, it's because I think they're the right person to address it. Just tell me if I'm off-base. FWIW, I encourage everyone to not care about the hierarchy, so that may not work in every place.
  - everdrive 3y ago
    This is a great point -- and I do, when I can. I guess it's the culture shock that I find most difficult. I'm only asking for clarification so I can fulfill the request more effectively -- but even this is seen as risky and pushy in many businesses.
- r_hoods_ghost 3y ago
zeteo 3y ago
> Everyone needs to operate in good faith. I've observed leaders ask their direct reports for something off-hand, without giving it more than 5 seconds of thought. I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. Do you think people in either of those situation would agree they acted in bad faith? The leader could say they were trying to avoid bikeshedding on what was clearly a quick and simple task. The direct reports may bring up multiple past interactions where imprecise requests led to a waste of their time and negative feedback. Telling everyone to just "don't be these type of people" is not very likely to be helpful.
- jroseattle 3y ago
  "Good faith" doesn't mean being dishonest. Instead, it's about showing a little empathy between two people. This situation sounds more like people trying to cover their ass so they aren't blamed for something later. Work to get things accomplished, not to avoid some kind of criticism. So, rather than being these types of people -- be a person who helps get something accomplished and maybe improves this situation along the way.
  - zeteo 3y ago
    > "Good faith" doesn't mean being dishonest. Instead, it's about showing a little empathy https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/good+faith https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/good+faith
    - maccard 3y ago
      Being pedantic when talking about empathy is about the least empathetic thing you can do.
      - tekla 3y ago
        Being empathetic doesn't mean you have to accept wrong definitions.
Aurornis 3y ago
> (1) Everyone needs to operate in good faith. I've observed leaders ask their direct reports for something off-hand, without giving it more than 5 seconds of thought. I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. Operating in good faith is so important. Leaders who operate by pushing the limits of what they can get away with are a stark contrast from leaders who operate to form good faith relationships with their team. Managers who make thoughtless demands all the time will steadily lose their best employees. In my experience, after a long enough time these leaders are reduced to having only juniors reporting to them because everyone with experience avoids the team. Your description of “human command line” team members is a great example of bad faith operation, too. I’ve worked with people who thought they were so clever by demanding that even the smallest request be delivered through a form they created or a document they need people to fill out before they can get started, which they might try to debate, critique, or circulate for a couple days before they’ll even think about working on your small task. They think they’ve insulated themselves from small asks because nobody wants to go through all the trouble of asking the question just right to get them to acknowledge it, but over time they build a reputation as difficult to work with. Another variant is the person who tries to exploit ambiguities in every request; These people have a good idea of what’s being asked of them, but they think they’re “teaching a lesson” by exploiting ambiguities in the request to deliver something that technically matches the letter of the request, but that everyone knows isn’t really what was needed or wanted. Not coincidentally, most of the people I knew who tried these game found themselves laid off in the past year. I think people can tolerate a bad faith coworker who at least does some work for a while, but when it’s time to downsize they’re at the top of everyone’s list to remove.
- deadbeeves 3y ago
  >They think they’ve insulated themselves from small asks because nobody wants to go through all the trouble of asking the question just right to get them to acknowledge it, but over time they build a reputation as difficult to work with. Sounds like they're completely right, then. "Don't bother Steve unless you really need something from him", which is exactly what he wants.
throwawaysleep 3y ago
> I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Nope, I absolutely want to be this type of person. I don’t want any level of responsibility whatsoever. You get to hang yourself if you can’t give good orders. I am an employee. I don’t win if the company wins so I refuse to incur any risk.
- hooverd 3y ago
  How about a $25 gift card to Chili's if you do well this quarter? Would that change the equation?
  - datadrivenangel 3y ago
    And believe, me this is a hypothetical, but what if you were offered some kind of stock option equity program. Would that do anything for you?
    - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
      That comma placement is hurting me.
      - intelVISA 3y ago
        insubordinate clause
    - Fargren 3y ago
      Whenever I've been offered stock, it has either been stock options for a private company, or RSUs for a FAANG. In the first case, I value them at 0. The stock can't be sold unless there's an IPO or the company is sold, and me working harder is vanishingly unlikely to be the difference between there being or not being an IPO. In the second case, the impact of my actions on the stock price is nil. I'l be happy to take the RSUs and sell them ASAP, becasue they are actually worth money, but I don't see their value linked to my performance. I don't agree with the GP's position of zero responsibility, but stock is not a better incentive than cash in my experience. That's just internal marketing in my opinion.
ehutch79 3y ago
> (1) Everyone needs to operate in good faith. I've observed leaders ask their direct reports for something off-hand, without giving it more than 5 seconds of thought. I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. Yeah... until the 4th round of guessing what they mean, resulting in months of tossed out work for lack of the exec elaborating on what they want. think "i need a sales report". You'd think there would be a better brief after the first time.
trashtester 3y ago
> I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line" I've recently started teaching my daughters how to play chess. When they hang the queen, I ask them "do you really want to do that move?". If they ask why not, I tell them. If they insist on doing it anyway, I capture the queen. They've learned to listen when I ask "do you really want to do that?" I treat my managers the same. :)
- droopyEyelids 3y ago
  This could be interpreted like you've switched to giving them an implicit command
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    an intake of breath is risky because it could be poisonous and kill you. Yet you wouldn't suggest someone stop breathing. There's lots of ways this could be interpreted, that shouldn't stop anyone from attempting to execute a teachable moment.
hasoleju 3y ago
I see point (2) very often combined with a higer-up also bypassing hierachy. I even get the feeling that the higher-ups feel like they are helping because they are so hands-on. What happens in every case is that the priority of that task for the assignee is the highest. Sometimes this is a help, because often people have to multitask a lot of tasks with the same priority. But in even more cases it might be a huge distraction.
siva7 3y ago
>> I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. That's giving me PTSD. Run if you ever find yourself in such a team. Operating in good faith should be the base line of working together in and with a team but for some it's not. Then it just turns into politics and ego games.
mieubrisse 3y ago
Big +1 to "there are no off-hand requests"; this was a failure that I realized I was making as a leader a month ago. I was (ostensibly) trying to give my team ownership, blasting them with the multiple things that needed doing, but in practice I was pushing the stress of "what should they be working on in any given moment" to them. It's a sneaky trap, because you think "I'm making them so empowered!" but you're actually stressing them out and reducing their focus.
- swatcoder 3y ago
  > It's a sneaky trap, because you think "I'm making them so empowered!" but you're actually stressing them out and reducing their focus. As a head's up, the even sneakier trap is that different team members thrive best with different approaches. Some people flail and fret without explicit, procedural direction and others are completely discouraged by it and do feel disempowered. Rather than taking your lesson as the New Universal Rule, make sure to just add it to your toolbox while trying to learn how to discern who needs what. It's good that you're learning to work better with the people who need more explicit direction, but you're going to burn out managing a team where all of them need that all the time (and if you only practice one approach, you'll eventually get there: filtering down to only have those team members who do thrive by it)
  - jt2190 3y ago
    > Some people flail and fret without explicit, procedural direction… Is this different from the “human command line” mode of operation that the grandparent mentioned?
    - xeromal 3y ago
      Two different points. He's saying not to be one of those but as a leader, you will have to lead those. Some people are just not great at interpreting context and your job will be to spoon feed it.
  - rconti 3y ago
    Yup. As a team lead, I fretted that I wasn't giving me one of my new team members enough hands-on time / direction. I'd sort of give him stuff with as much context as I had, meaning to follow up in a few days to see how things were going, but never got around to it. I later got feedback from my manager that my teammate really appreciated that I was giving him space to figure things out on his own rather than micro-managing him!
j45 3y ago
Poor planning on their part doesn’t constitute an emergency on your part
irrational 3y ago
One time I laid down two options of what we could do. I did not mention that one would take much longer than the other, because I didn't want that to influence their decision. I thought we should do what was best for the business and end users, not what was easiest for me. Well, they chose the longer and harder one. Later on I learned that they really wanted to go with the other one, but thought it would be harder for me to do. Doh! Of course, this also happens in real life. I was building new kitchen cabinets and when we got to the doors I gave my wife two options of top rails. Again, one was harder than the other, but I didn't mention that because I wanted her to pick the one she liked better. Of course, she chose the harder one because she thought it would be the easier one even though it turned out that she preferred the other one. So... always give the other person all the information.
WendyTheWillow 3y ago
To reinforce (1), even interest in a topic from a leader, if clear operational structure isn't present, will result in additional work. Be careful what you care about!
panarky 3y ago
> brief ask ... imprecise ask ... any ask ... receiving an ask ... clarify that ask It's curious how "ask" has transformed from an ancient verb into a modern, trendy and awkward noun. According to the OED, nounification began with colloquial usage in Australia. https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?q=ask https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?q=ask We all know that language is a constantly changing biosocial cognitive artifact, so there really are no rules. But this usage grates like chewing sand, especially when we have perfectly good synonyms just sitting there, unused.
- 6031769 3y ago
  Just remember that the noun "ask" begins with a T.
  - panarky 3y ago
    And that ancient and perfectly good noun has transmogrified into a modern, trendy and awkward corpspeak verb with nauseating echos of milspeak.
- jkubicek 3y ago
  At one point, I was fastidiously replacing the word "ask" with "request" in every Google Doc I had edit access too. I've since given up, it's just too overwhelming. For every "ask" I squash, there's 5 more being thrown at me in Slack and emails and Google Docs and Slides.
  - panzagl 3y ago
    You can join me on my crusade changing 'utilize' to 'use'.
    - panarky 3y ago
      From an exhausted and humiliated veteran of the failed struggle against the verbification of "impact", you have my respect and sympathy.
mmsimanga 3y ago
Quite a few comments imply that asking for something in writing is mark of distrust. I ask for things in writing because I often forget. Run into manager in kitchen and he or she asks a question. It's not like I had nothing to do, I was probably taking a break from another task I needed to finish. By the time I am done with task I was working on the corridor conversation is now blurred. So I need it in writing as a reminder. I could also meet two managers on my walk to get coffee and get to vague requests. I am that employee, if you want something from me put it in writing.
esafak 3y ago
(2) is what agile sprints are supposed to protect workers from. The worker would simply respond "We'll triage it for our next sprint. If it can't wait please talk to our manager to decide which existing tickets need to be swapped out."

chiefalchemist 3y ago

> Nail down what the requestor wants and be sure you both agree. I don't want to nitpick but the change of a single word is going to make significant difference in the outcome, time spent, satisfaction, next steps, etc. Nail down what the requestor *needs* and be sure you both agree... I wish I had $20 for everytime the initial "I want..." followed by a couple of questions - or even the famous The 5 Whys - evolved into the true (business) need.

jroseattle 3y ago
That's right. It's all part of the back-and-forth of good faith.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  It's also why senior's are so important and why the dichotomy between product people and technical people is so inane and stupid. There are developers that just want to keep their head down and write code, you'll never get those people to ask the questions that are being suggested here.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    True. The problem is, eventually those devs will want to be promoted and yet haven't exhibited any business acumen or any skills outside their technology focus. When new / jr devs ask me what they should learn, I say: business, marketing, etc, and improve your comms skills ( speaking, writing, and listening). That's not the answer they get typically.
  - mock-possum 3y ago
    Yeah honestly I know I’m capable of asking those kinds of questions, but I’ve been realizing lately that I just don’t want to. I want other people to figure their shit out first, then come to me when it’s ready to be built.
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      Few users / clients actually know tho'. They think in wants. They think in - because of past disappointments - what they can get. They think in what they think the boss wants. They rarely think in actual biz needs. You can give them *exactly* what they ask for and still be wrong. The user / client isn't going to admit that. Nah. They'll just play the "Damn IT" card and it'll be back to the drawing board but now with a shit load of tension. It's best to ask - sooner rather than later.
      - another2another 3y ago
        But expecting anybody to know all the details about a request, as well as the consequences to other bits of functionality in a system (especially if it's still being built) is unrealistic. Most people have a vague idea of the outcome they want, and the reason for it. They also quickly know what they don't want _once they see it_ And that's why agile and iterative development is actually great for GUI based user interactive app development.
      - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
        well shit, you should just roll over on your back and cry until someone puts a bottle in your mouth then. One of the advantages of being helpless is not taking responsibility.
electrondood 3y ago
"Can you tell me more about why you want X?" They actually need Y. Time saved.
- snerbles 3y ago
  The real fun begins when an executive skips down the chain to directly order you to provide X, accompanied with another order forbidding any further efforts on Y. Then, six months later, said executive shows back up demanding to know why you haven't provisioned this great Y thingamajig that his golf buddy was raving about.

qsort 3y ago

> I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. I've had managers give stupid orders, and seen them immediately backpedal when asked "would you write that down for me, please?" So yeah, I'll definitely act in good faith but unfortunately I can't assume good faith on the other side, I occasionally need to be a human command line.

jroseattle 3y ago
> I've had managers give stupid orders I'd suggest that "good faith" means turning those stupid orders into sane orders. In a case like this, help your manager -- educate them. If your relationship is tenuous, I get this can be hard. Show your good faith and explain to your manager in clear detail why something is stupid. Manage up, as they say.
- pphysch 3y ago
  Sometimes a manager will just throw something out there. "Can we get a dashboard for this (thing that has come up 0-1 times)". Feeding into those whims is rarely good for anyone, except the manager's ego.
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  A lot of the time they don’t need education, they need reminding to think. The request to write it down achieves that.
maccard 3y ago
The only time I've ever had a report ask me to confirm something in writing it was clear they were operating in CYA mode, but weren't willing to talk to me about why. It's the sort of thing that immediately escalates a situation, and in reality when the card is played it either breaks the trust, or the trust has already been broken.
- smugma 3y ago
  I often ask people to write up requests and often write up my own verbal requests to provide documentation of the ask and allow for clarification. Over time I’ve learned that my verbal requests often leave out important details and then people make assumptions that aren’t always right.

everdrive 3y ago

Point #2 is correct, but there’s no good reason it _has_ to be correct. Why can’t we tell management that a question they asked is non-sensical? The answer of course is that you don’t buck the hierarchy. But this adherence to hierarchy doesn’t actually help the business. It seems like this is a value which needs to be more easily discarded.

spacephysics 3y ago
I think it’s important to make those requests as minimal as possible. If we have a well oiled system of Jira tickets, estimates, and expectations for each sprint, these one off requests fly under the radar and impede engineer performance and expectations You could have a percent of each sprint dedicated to one-offs, but then are they really one-offs in the colloquial sense? The smaller the team and org, the easier it is to handle the one-offs (imo), because we can more directly connect the request to tangible impact more often. At the very least, in a small co your manager (or C suite executive) would easily back you up as the engineer if other executives were questioning output or something etc etc In larger orgs the extra communication burden makes the one off requests more expensive
jroseattle 3y ago
> Why can’t we tell management that a question they asked is non-sensical? You should absolutely do that (I tell my team to inform me if what I'm asking doesn't make sense.) If I'm coming to someone with a request, it's because I think they're the right person to address it. Just tell me if I'm off-base. FWIW, I encourage everyone to not care about the hierarchy, so that may not work in every place.
- everdrive 3y ago
  This is a great point -- and I do, when I can. I guess it's the culture shock that I find most difficult. I'm only asking for clarification so I can fulfill the request more effectively -- but even this is seen as risky and pushy in many businesses.
r_hoods_ghost 3y ago

zeteo 3y ago

> Everyone needs to operate in good faith. I've observed leaders ask their direct reports for something off-hand, without giving it more than 5 seconds of thought. I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. Do you think people in either of those situation would agree they acted in bad faith? The leader could say they were trying to avoid bikeshedding on what was clearly a quick and simple task. The direct reports may bring up multiple past interactions where imprecise requests led to a waste of their time and negative feedback. Telling everyone to just "don't be these type of people" is not very likely to be helpful.

jroseattle 3y ago
"Good faith" doesn't mean being dishonest. Instead, it's about showing a little empathy between two people. This situation sounds more like people trying to cover their ass so they aren't blamed for something later. Work to get things accomplished, not to avoid some kind of criticism. So, rather than being these types of people -- be a person who helps get something accomplished and maybe improves this situation along the way.
- zeteo 3y ago
  > "Good faith" doesn't mean being dishonest. Instead, it's about showing a little empathy https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/good+faith https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/good+faith
  - maccard 3y ago
    Being pedantic when talking about empathy is about the least empathetic thing you can do.
    - tekla 3y ago
      Being empathetic doesn't mean you have to accept wrong definitions.

Aurornis 3y ago

> (1) Everyone needs to operate in good faith. I've observed leaders ask their direct reports for something off-hand, without giving it more than 5 seconds of thought. I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. Operating in good faith is so important. Leaders who operate by pushing the limits of what they can get away with are a stark contrast from leaders who operate to form good faith relationships with their team. Managers who make thoughtless demands all the time will steadily lose their best employees. In my experience, after a long enough time these leaders are reduced to having only juniors reporting to them because everyone with experience avoids the team. Your description of “human command line” team members is a great example of bad faith operation, too. I’ve worked with people who thought they were so clever by demanding that even the smallest request be delivered through a form they created or a document they need people to fill out before they can get started, which they might try to debate, critique, or circulate for a couple days before they’ll even think about working on your small task. They think they’ve insulated themselves from small asks because nobody wants to go through all the trouble of asking the question just right to get them to acknowledge it, but over time they build a reputation as difficult to work with. Another variant is the person who tries to exploit ambiguities in every request; These people have a good idea of what’s being asked of them, but they think they’re “teaching a lesson” by exploiting ambiguities in the request to deliver something that technically matches the letter of the request, but that everyone knows isn’t really what was needed or wanted. Not coincidentally, most of the people I knew who tried these game found themselves laid off in the past year. I think people can tolerate a bad faith coworker who at least does some work for a while, but when it’s time to downsize they’re at the top of everyone’s list to remove.

deadbeeves 3y ago
>They think they’ve insulated themselves from small asks because nobody wants to go through all the trouble of asking the question just right to get them to acknowledge it, but over time they build a reputation as difficult to work with. Sounds like they're completely right, then. "Don't bother Steve unless you really need something from him", which is exactly what he wants.

throwawaysleep 3y ago

> I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Nope, I absolutely want to be this type of person. I don’t want any level of responsibility whatsoever. You get to hang yourself if you can’t give good orders. I am an employee. I don’t win if the company wins so I refuse to incur any risk.

hooverd 3y ago
How about a $25 gift card to Chili's if you do well this quarter? Would that change the equation?
- datadrivenangel 3y ago
  And believe, me this is a hypothetical, but what if you were offered some kind of stock option equity program. Would that do anything for you?
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    That comma placement is hurting me.
    - intelVISA 3y ago
      insubordinate clause
  - Fargren 3y ago
    Whenever I've been offered stock, it has either been stock options for a private company, or RSUs for a FAANG. In the first case, I value them at 0. The stock can't be sold unless there's an IPO or the company is sold, and me working harder is vanishingly unlikely to be the difference between there being or not being an IPO. In the second case, the impact of my actions on the stock price is nil. I'l be happy to take the RSUs and sell them ASAP, becasue they are actually worth money, but I don't see their value linked to my performance. I don't agree with the GP's position of zero responsibility, but stock is not a better incentive than cash in my experience. That's just internal marketing in my opinion.

ehutch79 3y ago

trashtester 3y ago

> I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line" I've recently started teaching my daughters how to play chess. When they hang the queen, I ask them "do you really want to do that move?". If they ask why not, I tell them. If they insist on doing it anyway, I capture the queen. They've learned to listen when I ask "do you really want to do that?" I treat my managers the same. :)

droopyEyelids 3y ago
This could be interpreted like you've switched to giving them an implicit command
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  an intake of breath is risky because it could be poisonous and kill you. Yet you wouldn't suggest someone stop breathing. There's lots of ways this could be interpreted, that shouldn't stop anyone from attempting to execute a teachable moment.

hasoleju 3y ago

I see point (2) very often combined with a higer-up also bypassing hierachy. I even get the feeling that the higher-ups feel like they are helping because they are so hands-on. What happens in every case is that the priority of that task for the assignee is the highest. Sometimes this is a help, because often people have to multitask a lot of tasks with the same priority. But in even more cases it might be a huge distraction.

siva7 3y ago

>> I've watched direct reports operate as a "human command line", requiring precise syntax before they'll act. Don't be either of these type of people. That's giving me PTSD. Run if you ever find yourself in such a team. Operating in good faith should be the base line of working together in and with a team but for some it's not. Then it just turns into politics and ego games.

mieubrisse 3y ago

Big +1 to "there are no off-hand requests"; this was a failure that I realized I was making as a leader a month ago. I was (ostensibly) trying to give my team ownership, blasting them with the multiple things that needed doing, but in practice I was pushing the stress of "what should they be working on in any given moment" to them. It's a sneaky trap, because you think "I'm making them so empowered!" but you're actually stressing them out and reducing their focus.

swatcoder 3y ago
> It's a sneaky trap, because you think "I'm making them so empowered!" but you're actually stressing them out and reducing their focus. As a head's up, the even sneakier trap is that different team members thrive best with different approaches. Some people flail and fret without explicit, procedural direction and others are completely discouraged by it and do feel disempowered. Rather than taking your lesson as the New Universal Rule, make sure to just add it to your toolbox while trying to learn how to discern who needs what. It's good that you're learning to work better with the people who need more explicit direction, but you're going to burn out managing a team where all of them need that all the time (and if you only practice one approach, you'll eventually get there: filtering down to only have those team members who do thrive by it)
- jt2190 3y ago
  > Some people flail and fret without explicit, procedural direction… Is this different from the “human command line” mode of operation that the grandparent mentioned?
  - xeromal 3y ago
    Two different points. He's saying not to be one of those but as a leader, you will have to lead those. Some people are just not great at interpreting context and your job will be to spoon feed it.
- rconti 3y ago
  Yup. As a team lead, I fretted that I wasn't giving me one of my new team members enough hands-on time / direction. I'd sort of give him stuff with as much context as I had, meaning to follow up in a few days to see how things were going, but never got around to it. I later got feedback from my manager that my teammate really appreciated that I was giving him space to figure things out on his own rather than micro-managing him!

j45 3y ago

Poor planning on their part doesn’t constitute an emergency on your part

irrational 3y ago

One time I laid down two options of what we could do. I did not mention that one would take much longer than the other, because I didn't want that to influence their decision. I thought we should do what was best for the business and end users, not what was easiest for me. Well, they chose the longer and harder one. Later on I learned that they really wanted to go with the other one, but thought it would be harder for me to do. Doh! Of course, this also happens in real life. I was building new kitchen cabinets and when we got to the doors I gave my wife two options of top rails. Again, one was harder than the other, but I didn't mention that because I wanted her to pick the one she liked better. Of course, she chose the harder one because she thought it would be the easier one even though it turned out that she preferred the other one. So... always give the other person all the information.

WendyTheWillow 3y ago

To reinforce (1), even interest in a topic from a leader, if clear operational structure isn't present, will result in additional work. Be careful what you care about!

panarky 3y ago

> brief ask ... imprecise ask ... any ask ... receiving an ask ... clarify that ask It's curious how "ask" has transformed from an ancient verb into a modern, trendy and awkward noun. According to the OED, nounification began with colloquial usage in Australia. https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?q=ask https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?q=ask We all know that language is a constantly changing biosocial cognitive artifact, so there really are no rules. But this usage grates like chewing sand, especially when we have perfectly good synonyms just sitting there, unused.

6031769 3y ago
Just remember that the noun "ask" begins with a T.
- panarky 3y ago
  And that ancient and perfectly good noun has transmogrified into a modern, trendy and awkward corpspeak verb with nauseating echos of milspeak.
jkubicek 3y ago
At one point, I was fastidiously replacing the word "ask" with "request" in every Google Doc I had edit access too. I've since given up, it's just too overwhelming. For every "ask" I squash, there's 5 more being thrown at me in Slack and emails and Google Docs and Slides.
- panzagl 3y ago
  You can join me on my crusade changing 'utilize' to 'use'.
  - panarky 3y ago
    From an exhausted and humiliated veteran of the failed struggle against the verbification of "impact", you have my respect and sympathy.

mmsimanga 3y ago

Quite a few comments imply that asking for something in writing is mark of distrust. I ask for things in writing because I often forget. Run into manager in kitchen and he or she asks a question. It's not like I had nothing to do, I was probably taking a break from another task I needed to finish. By the time I am done with task I was working on the corridor conversation is now blurred. So I need it in writing as a reminder. I could also meet two managers on my walk to get coffee and get to vague requests. I am that employee, if you want something from me put it in writing.

esafak 3y ago

(2) is what agile sprints are supposed to protect workers from. The worker would simply respond "We'll triage it for our next sprint. If it can't wait please talk to our manager to decide which existing tickets need to be swapped out."