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It'll be a very dark day for us all when Valve turns evil. Steam Deck has been a modder's dream since it came out. Just having "desktop mode" be a standard opt

It'll be a very dark day for us all when Valve turns evil. Steam Deck has been a modder's dream since it came out. Just having "desktop mode" be a standard option has been amazing.

xbmcuser 3y ago
It's privately owned so does not have the shareholder pressure to keep increasing share holder value.
- wholesomepotato 3y ago
  The do increase shareholder value, just in exactly short-term. The problem with publicly traded companies is not as much wanting to increase the value, but how short is the time horizon, when most owners don't have any understanding of the bussiness other than just handful of numbers every quarter.
haunter 3y ago
>Valve turns evil Some people and legislators are arguing that unregulated digital gambling is very very evil
- hovering_nox 3y ago
  If you mean gambling in Counter Strike, at least it's not explicitly aimed at children.
  - andy_ppp 3y ago
    Children don’t play Counter Strike?
    - askiiart 3y ago
      Whether or not children play CS:GO/CS:2 is irrelevant. It is a game where 50% of the time you play as terrorists shooting law enforcement, it's very obviously not aimed at kids. The only way for kids to gamble in CS at all is to either steal a credit card, which is obviously not Valve's fault, or for them to have a Steam gift card. If anything is to be done about the children, I think Valve should just 1) require a users to have a credit card on file in order to buy lootboxes, and 2) require re-entering the full credit card details if the user makes several purchases in a short period of time, in order to stop kids who, for example, memorized the CVV of a card already on file in Steam. Keep in mind that uploading a government ID would have issues, seeing as in the US a driver's license is not universal, not to mention IDs all across the globe. Maybe there's an alternative form of ID that would work that I just can't think of, but anyways, I'm against needing to upload a government ID to access anything unless it's specifically for governmental purposes.
      - andy_ppp 3y ago
        > Whether or not children play CS:GO/CS:2 is irrelevant My opinion is that it is relevant... but each to their own I guess.
  - henriquez 3y ago
    I was a teenaged boy when I first started playing Counter Strike. Maybe I’m a Luddite but the game is still fun; I feel like you don’t have to gamble or buy 48 cosmetic collectibles to enjoy it.
  - kllrnohj 3y ago
    It's explicitly not aimed at children being rated M / mature and with obvious themes implying as much. Obviously children still play it, but there has to be some level of responsibility on the parents here.
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    Children are not the only group harmed by gambling. Regardless, many children most certainly do play Counter Strike.
    - heyoni 3y ago
      Ok but as a society we’ve settled on letting fully grown adults partake in some forms of gambling. Are we really equating loot boxes in a mature rated game to casinos that will empty your kids college fund in the span of 12 hours?
      - thomastjeffery 3y ago
        My point is that the "think of the children" angle is redundant and reductive. We simply don't need to go there to have a discussion on the pros and cons of lootboxes.
  - geraldhh 3y ago
    you mean because CS is such a mature community?
- brigadier132 3y ago
  Gambling is very different from csgo cases and pokemon cards. One of the insidious aspects of gambling is that people can delude themselves that they can actually get rich from it
  - RockRobotRock 3y ago
    I'm sorry to tell you this but csgo has a thriving secondary market where you can exchange items for real money.
    - brigadier132 3y ago
      I'm aware and I'm not going to deal in absolutes because I'm sure there are a few people out there that do think they can make money from csgo skins but it's absolutely nothing compared to actual gambling. I'm a former gambling addict, it is very very difficult for me to lose the amount of money I have lost at craps or blackjack playing magic the gathering. I don't think we can classify all variable reward systems as gambling. Even competitive online chess with elo and matchmaking could be classified as gambling.
      - riversflow 3y ago
        I find all this handwringing about cosmetics gambling ridiculous when sports betting is becoming more and more accepted and legal.
        jacksontheel 3y ago
        For me, if there's some good way to gate kids from participating then gambling with loot boxes should be perfectly accepted. Not that it's good game design, but adults can vote with their attention/money
        filoleg 3y ago
        > if there's some good way to gate kids from participating then gambling with loot boxes should be perfectly accepted There already is, you gotta have a credit card to buy lootboxes. And while I am not aware of the situation all across the globe, in most places you gotta be 18+ to get a credit card. For a debit one you might qualify a couple years earlier in the US (and probably some other countries), but an easy solution would be for Steam to just ping the bank for info on the age of the customer. However, I am not sure if that would be easily possible, especially if we are talking about API-like approaches. The only current workaround is using gift cards, but I somehow doubt that kids resort mostly to that instead of using their parents’ credit cards. But at that point, it is on parents, because there are all sorts of ways to solve the problem on an individual level (e.g., get a card with a low limit just for steam, use a paypal account that you have to manually log into for every transaction on steam and don’t give your kid the credentials, etc). Unfortunately, there is no way one could feasibly stop some parents from just handing their kid a credit card and mentally checking out. And any other solution to the problem that won’t massively inconvenience adult Steam customers seems to be difficult to imagine.
- tanepiper 3y ago
  laughs in Eve Online
madeofpalk 3y ago
Valve has a history of being pretty anti-consumer, especially in regard to obeying warranty and returns. They were very early on in pushing “gambling for kids” with loot boxes and microtransactions. But yeah, exposed screws are cool I guess.
- RockRobotRock 3y ago
  You're right. Steam also charges an atrociously high % of revenue, and yet people bitch endlessly when they have to use Epic Games Store or other marketplaces EVEN THOUGH we espouse so much about game developers being constantly fucked by big companies.
bastardoperator 3y ago
Valve already did the evil part, they were just so early to the game (pun intended) no one knew how to react or what it meant. They somehow avoided mass criticism, or I wasn't paying good enough attention. I question a 30% developer fee for using Steam. Loot boxes in CS and TF2 to get and keep kids gambling. Destroying nearly every mod and skin community. I don't think I'm willing to sweep all that under the rug because they made it easier to open a steam deck. I like Valve believe it or not, but I question a lot of these decisions.
- theyinwhy 3y ago
  Lot's of uproar back then. Many people did not switch to steam for as long as possible.
  - ChoGGi 3y ago
    I switched as soon as I could, the beta was great. Once release happened it went in the crapper.
- AceJohnny2 3y ago
  > They somehow avoided mass criticism, or I wasn't paying good enough attention. Let me tell you about the Counter-Strike 1.6 Beta update in 2002... https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Steam https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Steam (Geez, 21 years ago!) But yes, you are otherwise correct. That said, I argue that Valve has done an overall good job providing value to their users and even developers.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- davrosthedalek 3y ago
  I am with you on the loot boxes, not sure I agree on the rest. City skylines as an enormous modding community, on steam, for example. I am OK with the 30%, because it's not a monopoly. You can use any other store, "sideload", whatever, without restrictions. I think, but I am not sure, that you could actually offer your game cheaper on other channels in parallel. But because people like the convenience of steam (which is probably one if not the best implementation of a software store) that many would pay the premium to have the game on steam.
bhdlr 3y ago
Valve is a private company, so it would probably be after gaben leaves the company

It'll be a very dark day for us all when Valve turns evil. Steam Deck has been a modder's dream since it came out. Just having "desktop mode" be a standard option has been amazing.

xbmcuser 3y ago

It's privately owned so does not have the shareholder pressure to keep increasing share holder value.

wholesomepotato 3y ago
The do increase shareholder value, just in exactly short-term. The problem with publicly traded companies is not as much wanting to increase the value, but how short is the time horizon, when most owners don't have any understanding of the bussiness other than just handful of numbers every quarter.

haunter 3y ago

>Valve turns evil Some people and legislators are arguing that unregulated digital gambling is very very evil

hovering_nox 3y ago
If you mean gambling in Counter Strike, at least it's not explicitly aimed at children.
- andy_ppp 3y ago
  Children don’t play Counter Strike?
  - askiiart 3y ago
    Whether or not children play CS:GO/CS:2 is irrelevant. It is a game where 50% of the time you play as terrorists shooting law enforcement, it's very obviously not aimed at kids. The only way for kids to gamble in CS at all is to either steal a credit card, which is obviously not Valve's fault, or for them to have a Steam gift card. If anything is to be done about the children, I think Valve should just 1) require a users to have a credit card on file in order to buy lootboxes, and 2) require re-entering the full credit card details if the user makes several purchases in a short period of time, in order to stop kids who, for example, memorized the CVV of a card already on file in Steam. Keep in mind that uploading a government ID would have issues, seeing as in the US a driver's license is not universal, not to mention IDs all across the globe. Maybe there's an alternative form of ID that would work that I just can't think of, but anyways, I'm against needing to upload a government ID to access anything unless it's specifically for governmental purposes.
    - andy_ppp 3y ago
      > Whether or not children play CS:GO/CS:2 is irrelevant My opinion is that it is relevant... but each to their own I guess.
- henriquez 3y ago
  I was a teenaged boy when I first started playing Counter Strike. Maybe I’m a Luddite but the game is still fun; I feel like you don’t have to gamble or buy 48 cosmetic collectibles to enjoy it.
- kllrnohj 3y ago
  It's explicitly not aimed at children being rated M / mature and with obvious themes implying as much. Obviously children still play it, but there has to be some level of responsibility on the parents here.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  Children are not the only group harmed by gambling. Regardless, many children most certainly do play Counter Strike.
  - heyoni 3y ago
    Ok but as a society we’ve settled on letting fully grown adults partake in some forms of gambling. Are we really equating loot boxes in a mature rated game to casinos that will empty your kids college fund in the span of 12 hours?
    - thomastjeffery 3y ago
      My point is that the "think of the children" angle is redundant and reductive. We simply don't need to go there to have a discussion on the pros and cons of lootboxes.
- geraldhh 3y ago
  you mean because CS is such a mature community?
brigadier132 3y ago
Gambling is very different from csgo cases and pokemon cards. One of the insidious aspects of gambling is that people can delude themselves that they can actually get rich from it
- RockRobotRock 3y ago
  I'm sorry to tell you this but csgo has a thriving secondary market where you can exchange items for real money.
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    I'm aware and I'm not going to deal in absolutes because I'm sure there are a few people out there that do think they can make money from csgo skins but it's absolutely nothing compared to actual gambling. I'm a former gambling addict, it is very very difficult for me to lose the amount of money I have lost at craps or blackjack playing magic the gathering. I don't think we can classify all variable reward systems as gambling. Even competitive online chess with elo and matchmaking could be classified as gambling.
    - riversflow 3y ago
      I find all this handwringing about cosmetics gambling ridiculous when sports betting is becoming more and more accepted and legal.
      - jacksontheel 3y ago
        For me, if there's some good way to gate kids from participating then gambling with loot boxes should be perfectly accepted. Not that it's good game design, but adults can vote with their attention/money
        filoleg 3y ago
        > if there's some good way to gate kids from participating then gambling with loot boxes should be perfectly accepted There already is, you gotta have a credit card to buy lootboxes. And while I am not aware of the situation all across the globe, in most places you gotta be 18+ to get a credit card. For a debit one you might qualify a couple years earlier in the US (and probably some other countries), but an easy solution would be for Steam to just ping the bank for info on the age of the customer. However, I am not sure if that would be easily possible, especially if we are talking about API-like approaches. The only current workaround is using gift cards, but I somehow doubt that kids resort mostly to that instead of using their parents’ credit cards. But at that point, it is on parents, because there are all sorts of ways to solve the problem on an individual level (e.g., get a card with a low limit just for steam, use a paypal account that you have to manually log into for every transaction on steam and don’t give your kid the credentials, etc). Unfortunately, there is no way one could feasibly stop some parents from just handing their kid a credit card and mentally checking out. And any other solution to the problem that won’t massively inconvenience adult Steam customers seems to be difficult to imagine.
tanepiper 3y ago
laughs in Eve Online

madeofpalk 3y ago

Valve has a history of being pretty anti-consumer, especially in regard to obeying warranty and returns. They were very early on in pushing “gambling for kids” with loot boxes and microtransactions. But yeah, exposed screws are cool I guess.

RockRobotRock 3y ago
You're right. Steam also charges an atrociously high % of revenue, and yet people bitch endlessly when they have to use Epic Games Store or other marketplaces EVEN THOUGH we espouse so much about game developers being constantly fucked by big companies.

bastardoperator 3y ago

Valve already did the evil part, they were just so early to the game (pun intended) no one knew how to react or what it meant. They somehow avoided mass criticism, or I wasn't paying good enough attention. I question a 30% developer fee for using Steam. Loot boxes in CS and TF2 to get and keep kids gambling. Destroying nearly every mod and skin community. I don't think I'm willing to sweep all that under the rug because they made it easier to open a steam deck. I like Valve believe it or not, but I question a lot of these decisions.

theyinwhy 3y ago
Lot's of uproar back then. Many people did not switch to steam for as long as possible.
- ChoGGi 3y ago
  I switched as soon as I could, the beta was great. Once release happened it went in the crapper.
AceJohnny2 3y ago
> They somehow avoided mass criticism, or I wasn't paying good enough attention. Let me tell you about the Counter-Strike 1.6 Beta update in 2002... https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Steam https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Steam (Geez, 21 years ago!) But yes, you are otherwise correct. That said, I argue that Valve has done an overall good job providing value to their users and even developers.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
davrosthedalek 3y ago
I am with you on the loot boxes, not sure I agree on the rest. City skylines as an enormous modding community, on steam, for example. I am OK with the 30%, because it's not a monopoly. You can use any other store, "sideload", whatever, without restrictions. I think, but I am not sure, that you could actually offer your game cheaper on other channels in parallel. But because people like the convenience of steam (which is probably one if not the best implementation of a software store) that many would pay the premium to have the game on steam.

bhdlr 3y ago

Valve is a private company, so it would probably be after gaben leaves the company