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After luring customers with low prices, Amazon stuffs Fire TVs with ads
- wkat4242 3y agoIt's weird that this is news in the US. Here in Spain they've done that for 2 years now. Chocolates, perfumes and other stuff are advertised on the fire TV home screen: (
- smoldesu 3y agoAmazon's FireTV experience is pretty bad. Even as someone who pays for Prime, it's hard to escape the "ad carousel" interface when you just want to watch TV. That being said, I still use mine regularly for one reason; sideloading. You can install YouTube clients with SponsorBlock and ad-skipping built in. You can download Steam's streaming client and connect a controller, or load up Kodi with SFTP streaming from your local network. The quality of third-party apps is so good that I just ignore the FireTV experience as a whole and skip straight to the apps. Hopefully someone makes/has made a launcher app that bypasses Amazon's stuff. The underlying hardware is perfect for my needs; the first-party software is the crutch. Edit: prayers answered? https://gitlab.com/flauncher/flauncher https://gitlab.com/flauncher/flauncher
- _ea1k 3y agoYeah, tbh, the fact that they allow side loading makes up for this, IMO. I still wouldn't necessarily buy one. I've found that I like the Google TV ecosystem a little better. But being able to sideloaded whenever needed makes it much better to me than some of the "less intrusive" options.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago> Even as someone who pays for Prime, it's hard to escape the "ad carousel" interface when you just want to watch TV. I've recently (last week-ish) started to get the ads, too (I'm in France). But they don't seem to have made their way in the actual Prime Video app. I actually always used the "app" because I much preferred the organization.
- wkat4242 3y agoHere in Spain they've been in there for 2 years. Not even their shows, but for chocolates, perfumes etc
- wkat4242 3y agoWhich YouTube client do you use if I may ask?
- smoldesu 3y agoThis is the one I'd prefer, if hypothetically I did such a thing :) https://github.com/yuliskov/SmartTube https://github.com/yuliskov/SmartTube
- RajT88 3y agoMy wife and I bought a Fire TV for a particular use case: - The hot tub room in the winter - The outdoor patio in the summer It was so cheap, we don't mind the ads on the home screen. If it dies from the moisture, we'll just buy another one. The apps are the key anyways, as I use a few totally ad-free apps to stream stuff: - JellyFin - VLC - HDHomeRun (for my antenna on the roof) PlutoTV is not ad-free, but has so much amazing shit, I don't mind it much. Meanwhile, the big LG OLED we bought, I have been on a crusade to neuter all the ads without causing issues with downloading apps/updates/streaming. The RootMyTV exploit no longer works: https://github.com/RootMyTV/RootMyTV.github.io https://github.com/RootMyTV/RootMyTV.github.io I have found blocking the IP of the local Akamai peer works for blocking some ads and the OS update check, but at the cost of other things which also use the CDN. It seems to use internal DNS, which complicates things.
- edhelas 3y agoI love how you think that TV can be throw away when used <3 You're like a Environmental Hero to me.
- RajT88 3y agoYou'll notice I did not mention what we do with it when done with it. Point of fact, we use the (many, free) electronics recycling programs available to us in our area. Thanks for making dumb and uncharitable assumptions.
- speedgoose 3y agoRecycling the TV is better than not doing it, but not wasting it is even better for the environment.
- RajT88 3y agoYou'll be happy to know we're not wasting it. We use that TV frequently.
- isoprophlex 3y agoWell don't worry. You buy a premium "lifestyle tv" like a Samsung Frame, and the moment you connect it to the internet, it too slams every user interface panel full of advertising. This amazon is shit egregious, but par for the course. They're hardly the only ones. TVs are enshittified pretty badly. Thankfully my Samsung forgot those ads after wiping it to factory defaults. So now it is only connected to the apple tv, and not the rest of the internet. No network at all, never, seems to be the only winning move right now.
- ska 3y agoI think this is the real value prop of the Apple TV now for many people, particular non technical types or those who just don't want to monkey with networking etc. Usable interface and isolates your TV from the network. I met someone doing something similar with a PS5 but that seemed awkward.
- aldanor 3y agoWhy connect any tv to internet?
- sneak 3y agoMany TVs now have dark patterns during setup that suggest initial configuration is impossible without network access. I recently set up a TV that required I scroll to the very bottom of the list of visible Wi-Fi networks to skip the network setup.
- aldanor 3y agoThat's pretty shady indeed. But I guess that comes from how the majority of consumers use those tvs, not discerning the screen itself from software that provides content access.
- mulmen 3y agoTo access content.
- whalesalad 3y agoThe trick is to never give your TV access to the internet and to pair it with an Apple TV. If you buy a TV and it won't even boot or work without an internet connection - return it and get a different one.
- vladvasiliu 3y agoThat works fine with a TV. I bought one knowing that the "smart" features weren't all that great. I tried connecting it to the internet, and it felt more sluggish, although it's a brand new 2023 model. I was able to reset it to factory defaults and it's working well enough for what I bought it for (the image is very good, at least for my needs). For reference, it's a TCL with Google TV. But the Fire TV TFA talks about... well, the whole point of the thing is to stream internet content. So not connecting it to the internet kinda defeats 90% of the thing's purpose.
- EricE 3y agoyou can still stream stuff - just use something else and just leverage it as a cheap display. Unless it won't work if not connected to the internet (wouldn't put it past them). I bought my Xbox mainly because it was the best/cheapest option for a 4K bluray player. I think I've loaded a game on it a handful of times at best, but watched lots of movies and other content with it. Thanks gamers for subsidizing a great BR player!
- bombcar 3y agoThe key is to verify that the TV will return to just showing "HDMI 1" or whatever after power off. Because the smart TVs have a history of returning to whatever ads they want to show after power on.
- vladvasiliu 3y agoMy particular TV, if it's never been connected to the internet, will not show any ads. It will show a notification that it isn't connected to the internet when you turn it on, but it will work fine otherwise. It'll even switch to the correct video input if you power it on through that port, say through a firetv stick. Otherwise, there's a setting for power on behaviour: 1. go to home screen 2. Go to last used input.
- cooljacob204 3y agoGoogle has started to do the same thing making my nvidia shield a paperweight to me.
- jampekka 3y agoChromecast as well. Everything shall be enshittified.
- treypitt 3y agoChromecast has ads now? I just bought one because it was cheaper to buy a new chromecast 4k plus ethernet adapter, than replace my apple tv remote
- jampekka 3y agoChromecast with Google TV has half of the screenspace for streaming service ads. In some locations they have other ads too. This can't be removed even with the "Apps only" mode. I was kind of forced to get a Chromecast, because they actively block independent receiver implementations, and the prevalent Cast button in Android apps is used by other inhabitants. This should obviously be illegal, and probably is, but megacorps are above the law. https://www.androidpolice.com/google-tv-ads/ https://www.androidpolice.com/google-tv-ads/
- yamazakiwi 3y agoI never see ads on chromecast unless I'm using an application that has ads, e.g. youtube without premium
- jampekka 3y agoThis is with the newer chromecasts with Google TV.
- manicennui 3y agoI have a fairly expensive Google TV and I have to navigate past rows of promoted content to get to the streaming apps I actually installed and want to use.
- crazygringo 3y ago> "A non-Amazon TV displaying a fire." The caption to the hero image is particularly hilarious.
- wkat4242 3y agoYeah so annoying. And very hard to block.
- snoman 3y agoWith DNS over HTTPS (DOH) gaining traction, it will eventually become impossible to block.
- manicennui 3y agoAre there any Smart TVs that aren't stuffed with ads? Apple TV might be the least bad, but it still allows apps to display recommended nonsense on the home screen when they are highlighted.
- tomComb 3y agoMy Sony, which comes with Google TV, is no worse than Apple TV in its default configuration, and I've read about other people installing alternate home pages with no ads.
- thinkingtoilet 3y agoI just bought a large computer monitor and use an old computer to stream. The quality is absolutely fine.
- whalesalad 3y agoonly for home row apps. tbh you’re being a lil over dramatic they aren’t ads they are showing a subset of available content. being able to swipe over the Netflix app and get a clean grid of the current top content on Netflix without opening it is a great feature.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago> tbh you’re being a lil over dramatic they aren’t ads they are showing a subset of available content. Including content you didn't ask for in apps you don't use? What's your definition of an ad?
- whalesalad 3y agoRe: apps I don’t use - I uninstall those :)
- gainda 3y agoI will also add that in my experience it is typically recommending shows you are in progress with, or next in a queue, or on some list you have curated before recommending anything else. So quite handy at times.
- cbdumas 3y agoI may be in the minority here but I bought an LG TV in 2020 and the built in webOS interface and streaming apps have been great. I think there might be some ads but I'm honestly not 100% sure as they are very unintrusive. We had a Roku from our previous set up I had planned to use after hearing terrible things about the typical smart TV software, but have since gotten rid of it.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoIt might be a subjective preference thing. For me, smart TVs have a lot of features that make me angry: surveillance capitalism, manufacturers acting like the own a device I bought, subjecting me to ads, etc. Even if I'm arguably wrong about those views, subjectively the infringements make me experience unpleasant emotions, which detracts from the product's value for me.
- MarkusWandel 3y agoBut can you use the TV as a dumb monitor and just supply HDMI input from some other device? I.e. the input stays selected across powerdowns, and no GUI/ads come up? Other "Fire" devices are a great deal. I have 2021-ish Fire HD8 and HD10 tablets, that merely needed a de-amazonification script from xda-developers to turn into "almost completely normal" vanilla Android tablets, Play Store and all, and have been very satisfactory as such.
- troupo 3y ago> But can you use the TV as a dumb monitor and just supply HDMI input from some other device Most "other devices" are also filled with ads
- fckgw 3y agoThere are some TVs with FireOS built in, but this article is mainly talking about the FireTV sticks and such. That's your primary content device, you cannot bypass the ads no matter your TV.
- extraduder_ire 3y agoCan you root or otherwise put an alternative ROM on these things? They are basically just running android, right?
- mdasen 3y agoYes and no. People have figured out how to unlock the boot loader of some Fire TV devices, but it can sometimes involve opening up the device and making physical modifications (like shorting something on the motherboard) or having an older version of the Fire TV OS installed (it depends on the device). So yes, you can put an alternative ROM on some of these things, but I think the practicality of it isn't really there. I would just say "no", but someone will link to an XDA post showing how you can (at least on some Fire TV devices) through a really complicated setup that even a lot of people on HN wouldn't get though. If you actually want a custom rom, it's better to get something like an Nvidia Shield where you can just unlock the boot loader. The problem with the Nvidia Shield is that it isn't cheap like the Fire TV devices. It's priced more expensive than an Apple TV with less capable hardware ($130 gets you an Apple TV 4K with A15 processor getting 2,100 single-core and 5,100 multi-core, 4GB of RAM, and 64GB of storage; $150 gets you a Tegra X1+ with 300 single-core, 800 multi-core, 2GB of RAM, and 8GB storage). When a company's business model (like the Fire TV) is selling you cheap hardware and then pumping you full of ads, they often don't make it easy to avoid that.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoI'm curious if there's a practical way to replace the offending electronics. I.e., retain the device's panel, panel driver, chasis, speakers/amplifier, IR receiver, and perhaps power supply. But replace the computing hardware with something more open? I guess I have no idea how much custom firmware is needed to really get the most out of such devices. Especially for e.g. getting good color, and avoiding burn-in, on the display.
- fatherzine 3y agoNot sure why to expect TV-over-Internet be any different than TV-over-cable: 1 minute of ads for every 3 minutes of content. Sure, for some years the industry held back the ads in a capital fueled chase for market share. Yet at some point capital requires returns, and so the ads spigot will eventually be turned wide open.
- sand500 3y agoDumb TVs are still a thing https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1629173-REG/nec_e658_65_class_4k.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1629173-REG/nec_e658_...
- joshmlewis 3y ago> powered by Samsung's Tizen OS for business Not exactly (or at least bad example.)
- sand500 3y agoI missed that, updated with a different brand.
- wcfields 3y agoThe "OS" on the commercial TVs is more or less for digital signage purposes only. Samsung is kind of the defacto in the market, but I've worked with some new Panasonics that are just as nice. As far as the OS: It doesn't have an 'app store' and essentially you can program it to check in to an RSS feed / FTP / etc.. to grab new content, schedule content, or use a USB to load up a scheduler (Think like restaurant menu that changes from breakfast to lunch at 10:30am). Other nice features may include ability to daisy chain to make a video wall, fallback/failover if HDMI1 goes off, RS-232 control or command of other systems. Some models also are built for 24/7 duty cycle, though, if you go to a local sports-bar or the like they will buy consumer TVs that will look blotchy within a year or two because they aren't built to be on 20 hours a day.
- squeaky-clean 3y agoIt's a shame it's so expensive for an LCD tv without 10bit HDR. Are there dumb OLED TVs?
- karaterobot 3y agoSceptre was the go-to brand for dumb TVs for a while. I bought a 60" 4K from them for like $500 4-5 years ago. For anyone looking for a dumb TV, Sceptre does not appear to sell TVs on Amazon anymore, but they do exist as a company, and they still sell TVs (just search for their brand name and you'll find their website). I don't know the backstory.
- Ancalagon 3y ago> The changes [showing more ads for money] mirror similar moves from others in the TV maker industry. Tbh this is every industry at this point and its driving me nuts.
- nerdponx 3y agoAnd why not? From the perspective of any individual company, it's free money. Some consumers will leave or switch to other products, but most won't, either because they're already locked into your product ecosystem or because there's no equivalent competitor. So you just need to make more money overall than you lose on the minority of sales or subscriptions that you lose.
- xenadu02 3y agoSome product categories are nearly monopolies too: - Garage Door Openers. Chamberlain (also Liftmaster). They have like 80% of the market. Its them or Genie. Almost everyone else got out of the market. Decent products with OK prices. Competition would bring prices down some but not by a huge amount. However they are desperate to generate MRR and so despite originally having openers with WiFi and local APIs they've locked everything down to MyQ so they can force everything through the cloud and charge both you and 3rd party integrators money. - Sink Food Disposals - Insinkerator (part of Emerson) has almost the entire US market. Three product lines for the low, middle, upmarket segments. - Luxor. Owns basically all retail eyeglass sales in the US. Charges literal 10x-100x markups on simple plastic frames. Also the easiest slam-dunk for anti-trust action even under the super high bar used by the government today... but no one seems to care. For everything else we have a missing middle situation. You can't buy a "decent" TV, microwave, toaster, etc. There's only bottom-feeder dreck or high-end. Everyone else disappeared or doesn't want to serve that market. A lot of the products are objectively worse than they were 20+ years ago. We have a restored Sunbeam Radiant toaster... besides automatically lowering and raising the toasted items it also makes toast about 2x as fast as anything you can buy at Target/Walmart today regardless of price. Kitchen appliances are similar. Your standard GE/Whirlpool/etc ovens, fridges, washers, and so on are uber cheap, not as repairable as they used to be, and are intended to be used for about 10 years then thrown away. To get a well engineered appliance that has proper service manuals and are designed to last you have to make a huge jump to something like Thermador, SpeedQueen, etc. TVs? The only way to get one not jammed with ads and tracking garbage is via "commercial signage" which is what I ended up doing. I bought a Sony Bravia "commercial signage" display. It runs Android but you can reject Google's license agreement and the TV works as a display anyway. It also has a documented API I can use to control it. Oh and it has a higher brightness rating than equivalent consumer TVs and is rated to be on 24/7. The extra money was worth it to me.
- inanutshellus 3y agoThe Kindle Fire tablet is an upseller's paradise. The OS walls the user into an experience was built on constantly FOMOing the user over today's new Amazon content. Given that it was supposed to help my kids study for school during covid, that was a hard pass. I won't buy Amazon OS goods again, but if other people are lured by the low prices and then just accept what Amazon offers then I can only assume it's done wonders to their bottom line.
- specproc 3y agoMy brother was given one as a freebie and has another tablet, so I took it off his hands in the naive expectation I could root it and run lineage or such. A humbling experience.
- joezydeco 3y agoIf you own a FireTV stick or display you'll notice that the FreeVee streaming app has started to become more and more prominent. It's deceptively simple - they are taking old shows like Murder She Wrote and streaming them non-stop on a "channel" much like the old terrestrial broadcast networks did. They're solving the streaming problem for older customers that don't grok Netflix or Hulu. These shows take pseudo-commercial breaks and send you 2-3 ads tailored to you specifically. My wife didn't believe it until I did a simple Amazon search on my phone for automotive batteries. Not more than 30 minutes later the ads switched to some random LiPo battery for RVs.
- joombaga 3y agoPlutoTV is the same. I used to put on the Geek & Sundry channel and get ads from my employer.
- dsdsafklj 3y agoI know what you mean but I can't help but imagine a 60 year old man pointing at the camera and saying, "Get back to work, Steve."
- tommica 3y agoNow that's targeted advertising!
- supportengineer 3y agoI can think of something even more evil. What if ad networks allowed the advertiser to SUBSCRIBE to events generated by the ad viewer. For example, XYZ Toothpaste Inc gets a web hook that Targeted Consumer 123 has just started streaming TV Show "Foobar".
- ndriscoll 3y agoIt's not quite what you're describing, but look up demand side platforms. At scale, advertisers are given the opportunity to bid on real time events.
- sonicanatidae 3y agoWhat am I missing here? I mean, why not just not plug an ad box into the internet? Either use cable or a PC and voila, no ads. Or are they somehow tying basic functions like displaying images sent to the port with ads?
- apricot 3y agoYou can still do that. Many do. But the next generation of TVs probably won't even deign to turn on without you giving them Internet access.
- graphe 3y agoLol yeah right
- sonicanatidae 3y agoAhh. ok.. Thanks!
- rdp36 3y agoOn my five year old TCL Roku TV the other day I decided to plug back in an over the air antenna. I clicked on the live tv shortcut and no channel scan or grid schedule showed up, just row after row of links to free streaming "broadcasters". I had to go to system settings and check a box not to show those and finally I could select an over the air channel. A dark pattern indeed.
- andrewla 3y agoRoku has done the same thing with their appliance. If anyone from Roku is listening, I would pay a significant premium to never again see an ad.
- teeray 3y agoAnd advertisers will pay more than whatever that premium is to target you who have the disposable income to pay for ad-free experiences.
- hightrix 3y agoAnd if there is no way to pay for a truly ad-free experience, then I'll just make an ad-free experience myself by not paying anything and pirating everything. Piracy is nearly always a service problem. I'm happy to pay for content, but will not pay for content twice and I will not watch ads. If those options are not available, then I'll just take what I want and the service provder will get zero dollars and zero ad viewership rather than some dollars and zero ad viewership.
- jimmydddd 3y agoi once bought a 1st or second gen Kindle on sale ($20 off). It would put a static add on the home page when turned off. To get rid of thne ad, I had to pay $20.
- beebeepka 3y agoHonestly, that's what you get for not buying a cheap pc that can be hooked to any screen. It's easier, cheaper, and you don't have to deal with "apps". I am continuously amazed HTPCs are losing ground to commercial setups that are objectively worse by any conceivable metric. No, dealing with "apps" is not simpler.
- Sebb767 3y agoI've looked into those when I was setting up my living room and, while PCs have their strengths, they lack things like CEC support, proper support for a remote (which you can work around by using Kodi), apps like Netflix are hardly supported and getting them to stream 4K, HDR or even just to use Dolby is an exercise in futility. Not to mention that those setups tend to be pretty unstable. A technical user can definitely patch something together, but it will be a far less stable or streamlined experience and if you try to have your TV used by your non-technical family, good luck.
- mindslight 3y agoSeriously! I can't reproduce the general complaint with Kodi on Linux. The end game was always going to be enshittification with these surveillance ecosystems offering throwaway devices. Yet people still keep telling themselves excuses to take the Faustian bargain - that figuring out something non-corporate is too hard, that this other brand will be different, that they can avoid the worst of it with various workarounds etc. Meanwhile once you set them up, the libre options just carry on working as society used to expect from appliances.
- adamomada 3y agoIt’s tough to get anything decent that will play 4kHDR with frame rate switching etc and included remote control (or work with existing TV remote control) for less than a fire stick. It’s mainly why they are popular and relevant
- robomartin 3y agoI have written about this before, particularly as it pertains to Vizio. My conclusion is simple: Government intervention is now required. I hate to take that path. I just don't see anything at all limiting what TV manufacturers are doing. They are completely out of control. The way I put it is that you buy a TV and they deliver a data-gathering, privacy-abusing digital advertising device into your family room, bedroom, etc. The level of surveillance and abuse on consumers is truly unbelievable. And nobody is even talking about putting a stop to it. HN often focuses on solutions to such problems that only techies would generally be able to or consider implementing. The vast majority of consumers are unsuspecting victims. They don't really understand that the home page is a bunch cost-per-click ads and that every single action they take is being logged and sold. Most people just don't know. And this is why legislation is required, not a techie solution or work-around. This needs to stop. So...I did something about it. I wrote to my congressional representative, explaining the problem and asking for action. The response, a few weeks later, was a form letter thanking me for contacting the office. So much for taxation with representation.
- Kon-Peki 3y agoI bought a dumb TV from Walmart a few months ago (65" 4K). The brand is Sceptre. Picture quality is pretty much the same as any other 4K TV that you will get for <$500. Audio quality is horrendous and that is not an exaggeration. This appears to be due to the speakers more than anything else. I got a dumb soundbar from Best Buy for about $150 and that solved the problem (as much as a $150 soundbar can). I am not the kind of person that is willing to spend $1000+ on a TV and I don't expect to get the same audio/video quality as that kind of TV will offer. But at my all-in price of about $500, it is outstanding package. We've got an AppleTV, a Wii-U, and a DVD player hooked up to it, as well as an OTA antenna. Our total usage is probably around 5 hours a week, and I can't complain at all. No menu lag, no long boot up, no advertising, etc. Highly recommended.
- imp0cat 3y agoYou can start most Google TVs in "dumb" mode, can't you? I know Sony definitely does have that option available when you first turn them on. https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10408998?hl=en https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10408998?hl=en - Use your device without a Google Account - Use your device without an internet connection
- Kon-Peki 3y agoOur previous TV used the Roku OS and also had the option to use the device without an account or internet connection. What we found was that it still dedicated a lot of space to features that required the non-existent internet and on more than one occasion it started suggesting that we should connect to the internet. I am pretty sure that if your kids accidentally click on some internet-required thing, it will take that as a signal that perhaps you've changed your mind and want to start using it as a smart TV. I find that annoying. Also, menu navigation was agonizingly slow :)
- gentleman11 3y agoWe have a tcl Roku tv, but it’s nothing but 3 inputs we set up and some stuff below I’ve never read, presumably something Roku related. Never connected it to the internet, just to consoles or Apple TV. it’s been great. Low input lag it seems too
- Mrirazak1 3y agoThey need to make money of it somehow. The problem with smart home products that Amazon is learning now finally is that their loads of products in the home and you can’t replace all of them. Lots of them are bad ideas to turn into products. Throwing money at the problem doesn’t solve it.
- bozhark 3y agoOn ars, whose affiliate linked articles flood its own pages post-nast. Check their most recent “recommended” article filled with these devices
- webkike 3y agoAlright, fine, I'm getting an Apple TV
- Sharlin 3y agoIn a move that surprised approximately no one.
- neilv 3y agoAnd on other devices, Prime Video is getting incrementally worse, in recent months and weeks. I tried Prime Video with-ads, and it was not only unpleasant sucking of my attention and interruption of the show, but creepy with the targeting/mis-targeting. When the whole purpose is to relax and wind down for the day. Once I've run out of ads-free good content on Prime Video, I'm going to have to go through my GnuCash, to see whether the 5% rewards I get with my Amazon credit card is worth the Prime membership fee, compared to my normal 2% cash rewards Fidelity card. Hopefully, Netflix, Max, etc., will have ads-free accounts at reasonable prices.
- underbluewaters 3y agoPrime Video is by far the worst app on AppleTV. The are so cheap they don't even use 4k resolution icons and thumbnails. It shows how much they care about their customers.
- gumballindie 3y agoWhat is it with this ad madness creeping into products we paid for everywhere? I own the product, i paid for it, now go away. If amazon sold it underpriced that’s their problem, not mine. This practice should be made illegal. Anyway if you have a playstation laying around plug your tv into that and use that for online content.
- sarchertech 3y agoSimple fix. Any platform that sells targeted ads has to provide an option to completely disable ads for the amount that platform makes in ad revenue from an average customer.
- lost_tourist 3y agowaiting for the them to try this with roku. I have an old laptop ready to swap out and use my TV as just an 80" monitor
- pabs3 3y agoWonder if you can run Linux on these things. Running software you control is the best form of ad-block.