7 ms·

Roman coins discovered in the waters of Sardinia

94 points by michelangelo 3y ago

seydor 3y ago
I feel i entered a nightmare. I google XNUMX and it seems to be everywhere? What conspiracy is this? What is happening? What is XNUMX ?
- pyinstallwoes 3y ago
  > A rich deposit of follis dating back to the first half of the XNUMXth century AD was discovered in the sea of the north-eastern coast of Sardinia, in the territory of Arzachena. Did they forget the variable $NUM? lol.
  - pyinstallwoes 3y ago
    A site I found had this on the body content: > The arithmetic mean of the numbers XNUMX XNUMX XNUMX XNUMX XNUMX XNUMX > Answer is: XNUMX
- kentonv 3y ago
  Wow I thought the author just forgot to go back and replace these placeholders once they confirmed the right number but you're right, Google shows all kinds of articles across the internet referring to the XNUMXth century, what the heck? https://www.google.com/search?q=xnumxth https://www.google.com/search?q=xnumxth
- batch12 3y ago
  I'm seeing indications that this is sometimes related to language translation using GTranslate.io [1] > We use XNUMX variable instead of all numbers in our edit interface. For example "10 cents" in your original text is represented as "XNUMX cents" in the edit interface, so if you translate "XNUMX cents" once, the same translation will be used for all similar phrases like "11 cents", "18 cents", etc. This helps to do less work. [1] https://docs.gtranslate.io/en/articles/1348921-how-to-edit-translations https://docs.gtranslate.io/en/articles/1348921-how-to-edit-t...
  - eevilspock 3y ago
    That explanation tracks with the number of non-English results in this search: https://www.google.com/search?q=xnumx+-michigan&tbs=li:1 https://www.google.com/search?q=xnumx+-michigan&tbs=li:1 and the way XNUMX appears in these results. (apologies. I only use google when I need to do a verbatim search)
  - manojlds 3y ago
    Tokenization like this is why LLMs are also bad at math.
- jonchurch_ 3y ago
  Seems to be related to wordpress and working with translations. Haven't been able to pin if it is wordpress core related, or specific plugins. When you find those results on google, all the sites I saw it on were using wordpress. It seems like a missing placeholder? There's one report of this for the Polylang plugin [0] And another reference in another plugin's help docs [1] [0] https://wordpress.org/support/topic/i-have-some-error-with-the-plugin/ https://wordpress.org/support/topic/i-have-some-error-with-t... [1] https://docs.gtranslate.io/en/articles/1348921-how-to-edit-translations#6-dealing-with-numbers https://docs.gtranslate.io/en/articles/1348921-how-to-edit-t...
- chdavid 3y ago
  XNUMX looks like a placeholder for a number you'd find in a document where the actual number is supposed to be inserted later. There might be a glitch or it's just a weird coincidence
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  It is a metasyntactic variable for FNORD [1]. You have stumbled on the core of the Mother of All Conspiracy Theories, this is how they manipulate us all. Burn it I say, burn it with fire and spread the ashes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnord https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnord
primitivesuave 3y ago
There were over a thousand Roman hoards discovered in Great Britain alone [1]. Given the scale of Roman mining operations, there are certainly many more out there. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_hoards_in_Great_Britain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_hoards_in_Great_...
- rnk 3y ago
  And the uk has that interesting policy where I believe the govt owns any treasure you find. Is it that way in the EU? In the us I believe you own it if you find something, but we don't seem to have as much treasure sitting around everywhere.
  - toyg 3y ago
    Any developed European country will have very strict laws on the subject, typically ensuring the State gets ownership of the artefacts (occasionally in exchange for what it sees as "fair value" to the finder). > we don't seem to have as much treasure sitting around It depends on your definition of treasure, of course. Native-American items that survived generations of nomadic life are definitely treasure, but they clearly weren't seen as such until relatively recently. And as soon as you step into Mexico you have a lot of traditional treasure from pre-Columbian civilizations.
    - qwytw 3y ago
      > It depends on your definition of treasure, of course. Wouldn't it still be a tiny fraction of what was/can be found in Europe no matter how you define it?
      - roughly 3y ago
        You'd be surprised. Mexico & Central America in particular were very well populated - Teotihuacan and Tenochtitlan were among the largest cities in the world in their respected heydays, and the overall population of both Mexico and of the Andes + Amazonia were on par with European nations of the time. (Ed. - Noting that the thread here was specifically about the US, those populations were also much larger than most are aware, and also had a fairly rich material and social culture, especially in the Pacific Northwest, though admittedly both smaller and unfortunately more biodegradable than the empires in the south. Book recs below still stand.) If you're interested, Charles Mann's 1491 is a fantastic read on the pre-Colombian Americas - these were large, sophisticated, well-established civilizations before smallpox. Graeber & Wengrow's The Dawn of Everything also spends a lot of time with the various North American civilizations.
timmg 3y ago
Anyone collect ancient coins? I've always thought it would be interesting to own something that was created and handled by someone in ancient Rome or Greece or China. My wife is 100% against the idea, though, because you don't know where they might have come from and (therefore) you could be supporting grave/site robbers. (I wonder if a case like this, thousands of coins discovered -- maybe sell some to collectors -- and we can feel good that they haven't been stolen.)
- uni_rule 3y ago
  I think in places like Italy they discover something of that sort almost every single time they dig a hole deep enough into the ground (eg during construction).
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Same thing in France, Germany, UK and elsewhere, except the coins are unexploded ordnances.
    - anadem 3y ago
      Some decades ago, swimming in the Mediterranean off the Libyan coast, I dived to pick up what at first very-nearsighted glance (not wearing my specs in the sea) could be an amphora. At the surface it was obvious that it was an unexploded shell, which I put down very carefully then swam far away.
      - School-Cotton 3y ago
        Not sure about developing countries like Libya decades ago, but in places like France, Germany etc. there are well-developed procedures for dealing with this sort of thing, and you should definitely contact the police if you find something like this.
  - jl6 3y ago
    Related… I believe there are many discoveries still to be made beneath the foundations of historic buildings that are too revered to excavate. To do a thorough survey of these sites would amount to taking down the buildings that sit on them, and nobody’s touching those UNESCO-grade buildings, so the secrets beneath remain undisturbed in modern times.
marginalia_nu 3y ago
That's a lot of asses.
- gred 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_(Roman_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_(Roman_coin)
- altairTF 3y ago
  I see what you did there
adverbly 3y ago
> The finds were discovered by a private citizen who, during a dive, noticed some metallic remains at a shallow depth, not far from the coast. The following day the underwater archaeological unit of the Superintendency of archaeology, fine arts and landscape of Sassari and Nuoro together with the Carabinieri of the Unit for the protection of cultural heritage of Sardinia and the Underwater Carabinieri Unit of Sardinia carried out an initial reconnaissance in the stretch of sea concerned, with the collaboration of the diving unit of the Carabinieri of Cagliari and that of the Fire Brigade of Sassari, together with the State Police, the Financial Police and the Port Authorities. How on Earth did it take one day for some random citizen to report something and then for like 50 institutions to all collaborate with each other to launch a gigantic coordinated effort? This is just insane. I'm absolutely calling BS.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  Diver sees something and calls a museum. Museum sends down an archaeology diver next day who confirms that there's something there and then 48 other groups collectively take credit for political purposes. Or maybe I'm just jaded...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- boringg 3y ago
  I bet they figure they can balance the budget with a great find :)
- dmos62 3y ago
  Sardinia is small. All the pro drivers probably know each other. This sounds like a curiously exhaustive list of people that came to a beach party.
- hinkley 3y ago
  This is talked about peripherally in How Big Things Get Done. If you are a construction crew in Great Britain, you have an archaeologist on staff. Someone who is already recognized by the governmental agencies responsible for the Heritage rules for that jurisdiction. So you have one on staff who can swoop in at the first pottery shard and expedite an extraction or declare a detour. And if you are a construction company, you realize that you can find multiple sites in the same month on different projects. So you have every other archaeologist in your contact list on retainer, so you can get one in as backup. Not quite the same situation here, but it shows that people who want to GSD have ways to do it when governments are involved.
epolanski 3y ago
Sardinia is a trove of Roman artifacts. Most friends I know from the east coast have some roman vase or something in their house (and yes, it's illegal if they have found those in most recent times). Essentially as scuba diving became popular 50/60 years ago locals started finding lots of stuff in the sea and many did not report those to the Ministry of Culture. Also, another fun fact. One of the most common scams I've seen in Rome area where I live by farmers is to buy roman artifacts on the black market (few coins or something else will do). Then they report the finding to the ministry, which then pays them for years to not work the field and they bring entire teams to search for more artifacts. It's extremely sad, but there's like no way to prove it or report it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
boringg 3y ago
How much are ancient coins actually worth
- AlecSchueler 3y ago
  Depends on the age of the coin, where it was minted, the condition, the rarity of it, where/when it was found and what was found alongside it, plus the market at the time of sale.
- olddustytrail 3y ago
  As with most things, whatever someone is willing to pay. You can buy them at places like https://www.baldwin.co.uk/ancient-coins-for-sale/ancient-british/ https://www.baldwin.co.uk/ancient-coins-for-sale/ancient-bri... (no connection to the site just what I found) So a few hundred to a few thousand pounds.
throw0101c 3y ago
Meta: how did Sardinia end up with Italy but Corsica with France?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- toyg 3y ago
  Both were actually taken over by French nobility in the XVIII century; it just so happened that the owners of Sardegna ended up conquering the whole of Italy 100 years later, and rebranded themselves Italian.
- rmccue 3y ago
  Genoa gave it to France to pay for their debt apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles_(1768) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles_(1768)
- dboreham 3y ago
  Something something Habsburgs?
- School-Cotton 3y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_conquest_of_Corsica https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_conquest_of_Corsica Summary: “in 1767, the Republic of Genoa, exhausted by forty years of fighting, decided to sell the island to France which, after its defeat in the Seven Years' War, was trying to reinforce its position in the Mediterranean. In 1768, with the Treaty of Versailles (1768), the Genoese republic ceded all its rights on the island.” However, Corsica was already de facto independent from Genoa at this time, so France had to send troops to conquer it. In general, there are lots of places in Europe where language and culture don’t align with state borders (for example: Austria and parts of Switzerland and Italy are German-speaking, but not part of Germany). The reason usually dates to the time before modern nation-states.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > The reason usually dates to the time before modern nation-states. Also, the nation-state norm was largely aspirational when it arose (and now), and the attempts to realize it since have been as much about attempting to craft new national identities corresponding to states as to align states to pre-existing national identities.
slater 3y ago
From the XNUMXth century AD!
Tao3300 3y ago
> XNUMXth Someone forgot to go back and Find/Replace...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

94 points by michelangelo 3y ago

I feel i entered a nightmare. I google XNUMX and it seems to be everywhere? What conspiracy is this? What is happening? What is XNUMX ?

pyinstallwoes 3y ago
> A rich deposit of follis dating back to the first half of the XNUMXth century AD was discovered in the sea of the north-eastern coast of Sardinia, in the territory of Arzachena. Did they forget the variable $NUM? lol.
- pyinstallwoes 3y ago
  A site I found had this on the body content: > The arithmetic mean of the numbers XNUMX XNUMX XNUMX XNUMX XNUMX XNUMX > Answer is: XNUMX
kentonv 3y ago
Wow I thought the author just forgot to go back and replace these placeholders once they confirmed the right number but you're right, Google shows all kinds of articles across the internet referring to the XNUMXth century, what the heck? https://www.google.com/search?q=xnumxth https://www.google.com/search?q=xnumxth
batch12 3y ago
I'm seeing indications that this is sometimes related to language translation using GTranslate.io [1] > We use XNUMX variable instead of all numbers in our edit interface. For example "10 cents" in your original text is represented as "XNUMX cents" in the edit interface, so if you translate "XNUMX cents" once, the same translation will be used for all similar phrases like "11 cents", "18 cents", etc. This helps to do less work. [1] https://docs.gtranslate.io/en/articles/1348921-how-to-edit-translations https://docs.gtranslate.io/en/articles/1348921-how-to-edit-t...
- eevilspock 3y ago
  That explanation tracks with the number of non-English results in this search: https://www.google.com/search?q=xnumx+-michigan&tbs=li:1 https://www.google.com/search?q=xnumx+-michigan&tbs=li:1 and the way XNUMX appears in these results. (apologies. I only use google when I need to do a verbatim search)
- manojlds 3y ago
  Tokenization like this is why LLMs are also bad at math.
jonchurch_ 3y ago
Seems to be related to wordpress and working with translations. Haven't been able to pin if it is wordpress core related, or specific plugins. When you find those results on google, all the sites I saw it on were using wordpress. It seems like a missing placeholder? There's one report of this for the Polylang plugin [0] And another reference in another plugin's help docs [1] [0] https://wordpress.org/support/topic/i-have-some-error-with-the-plugin/ https://wordpress.org/support/topic/i-have-some-error-with-t... [1] https://docs.gtranslate.io/en/articles/1348921-how-to-edit-translations#6-dealing-with-numbers https://docs.gtranslate.io/en/articles/1348921-how-to-edit-t...
chdavid 3y ago
XNUMX looks like a placeholder for a number you'd find in a document where the actual number is supposed to be inserted later. There might be a glitch or it's just a weird coincidence
the_third_wave 3y ago
It is a metasyntactic variable for FNORD [1]. You have stumbled on the core of the Mother of All Conspiracy Theories, this is how they manipulate us all. Burn it I say, burn it with fire and spread the ashes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnord https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnord

primitivesuave 3y ago

There were over a thousand Roman hoards discovered in Great Britain alone [1]. Given the scale of Roman mining operations, there are certainly many more out there. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_hoards_in_Great_Britain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_hoards_in_Great_...

rnk 3y ago
And the uk has that interesting policy where I believe the govt owns any treasure you find. Is it that way in the EU? In the us I believe you own it if you find something, but we don't seem to have as much treasure sitting around everywhere.
- toyg 3y ago
  Any developed European country will have very strict laws on the subject, typically ensuring the State gets ownership of the artefacts (occasionally in exchange for what it sees as "fair value" to the finder). > we don't seem to have as much treasure sitting around It depends on your definition of treasure, of course. Native-American items that survived generations of nomadic life are definitely treasure, but they clearly weren't seen as such until relatively recently. And as soon as you step into Mexico you have a lot of traditional treasure from pre-Columbian civilizations.
  - qwytw 3y ago
    > It depends on your definition of treasure, of course. Wouldn't it still be a tiny fraction of what was/can be found in Europe no matter how you define it?
    - roughly 3y ago
      You'd be surprised. Mexico & Central America in particular were very well populated - Teotihuacan and Tenochtitlan were among the largest cities in the world in their respected heydays, and the overall population of both Mexico and of the Andes + Amazonia were on par with European nations of the time. (Ed. - Noting that the thread here was specifically about the US, those populations were also much larger than most are aware, and also had a fairly rich material and social culture, especially in the Pacific Northwest, though admittedly both smaller and unfortunately more biodegradable than the empires in the south. Book recs below still stand.) If you're interested, Charles Mann's 1491 is a fantastic read on the pre-Colombian Americas - these were large, sophisticated, well-established civilizations before smallpox. Graeber & Wengrow's The Dawn of Everything also spends a lot of time with the various North American civilizations.

timmg 3y ago

Anyone collect ancient coins? I've always thought it would be interesting to own something that was created and handled by someone in ancient Rome or Greece or China. My wife is 100% against the idea, though, because you don't know where they might have come from and (therefore) you could be supporting grave/site robbers. (I wonder if a case like this, thousands of coins discovered -- maybe sell some to collectors -- and we can feel good that they haven't been stolen.)

uni_rule 3y ago
I think in places like Italy they discover something of that sort almost every single time they dig a hole deep enough into the ground (eg during construction).
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  Same thing in France, Germany, UK and elsewhere, except the coins are unexploded ordnances.
  - anadem 3y ago
    Some decades ago, swimming in the Mediterranean off the Libyan coast, I dived to pick up what at first very-nearsighted glance (not wearing my specs in the sea) could be an amphora. At the surface it was obvious that it was an unexploded shell, which I put down very carefully then swam far away.
    - School-Cotton 3y ago
      Not sure about developing countries like Libya decades ago, but in places like France, Germany etc. there are well-developed procedures for dealing with this sort of thing, and you should definitely contact the police if you find something like this.
- jl6 3y ago
  Related… I believe there are many discoveries still to be made beneath the foundations of historic buildings that are too revered to excavate. To do a thorough survey of these sites would amount to taking down the buildings that sit on them, and nobody’s touching those UNESCO-grade buildings, so the secrets beneath remain undisturbed in modern times.

marginalia_nu 3y ago

That's a lot of asses.

gred 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_(Roman_coin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_(Roman_coin)
altairTF 3y ago
I see what you did there

adverbly 3y ago

> The finds were discovered by a private citizen who, during a dive, noticed some metallic remains at a shallow depth, not far from the coast. The following day the underwater archaeological unit of the Superintendency of archaeology, fine arts and landscape of Sassari and Nuoro together with the Carabinieri of the Unit for the protection of cultural heritage of Sardinia and the Underwater Carabinieri Unit of Sardinia carried out an initial reconnaissance in the stretch of sea concerned, with the collaboration of the diving unit of the Carabinieri of Cagliari and that of the Fire Brigade of Sassari, together with the State Police, the Financial Police and the Port Authorities. How on Earth did it take one day for some random citizen to report something and then for like 50 institutions to all collaborate with each other to launch a gigantic coordinated effort? This is just insane. I'm absolutely calling BS.

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
Diver sees something and calls a museum. Museum sends down an archaeology diver next day who confirms that there's something there and then 48 other groups collectively take credit for political purposes. Or maybe I'm just jaded...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
boringg 3y ago
I bet they figure they can balance the budget with a great find :)
dmos62 3y ago
Sardinia is small. All the pro drivers probably know each other. This sounds like a curiously exhaustive list of people that came to a beach party.
hinkley 3y ago
This is talked about peripherally in How Big Things Get Done. If you are a construction crew in Great Britain, you have an archaeologist on staff. Someone who is already recognized by the governmental agencies responsible for the Heritage rules for that jurisdiction. So you have one on staff who can swoop in at the first pottery shard and expedite an extraction or declare a detour. And if you are a construction company, you realize that you can find multiple sites in the same month on different projects. So you have every other archaeologist in your contact list on retainer, so you can get one in as backup. Not quite the same situation here, but it shows that people who want to GSD have ways to do it when governments are involved.

epolanski 3y ago

Sardinia is a trove of Roman artifacts. Most friends I know from the east coast have some roman vase or something in their house (and yes, it's illegal if they have found those in most recent times). Essentially as scuba diving became popular 50/60 years ago locals started finding lots of stuff in the sea and many did not report those to the Ministry of Culture. Also, another fun fact. One of the most common scams I've seen in Rome area where I live by farmers is to buy roman artifacts on the black market (few coins or something else will do). Then they report the finding to the ministry, which then pays them for years to not work the field and they bring entire teams to search for more artifacts. It's extremely sad, but there's like no way to prove it or report it.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

boringg 3y ago

How much are ancient coins actually worth

AlecSchueler 3y ago
Depends on the age of the coin, where it was minted, the condition, the rarity of it, where/when it was found and what was found alongside it, plus the market at the time of sale.
olddustytrail 3y ago
As with most things, whatever someone is willing to pay. You can buy them at places like https://www.baldwin.co.uk/ancient-coins-for-sale/ancient-british/ https://www.baldwin.co.uk/ancient-coins-for-sale/ancient-bri... (no connection to the site just what I found) So a few hundred to a few thousand pounds.

throw0101c 3y ago

Meta: how did Sardinia end up with Italy but Corsica with France?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
toyg 3y ago
Both were actually taken over by French nobility in the XVIII century; it just so happened that the owners of Sardegna ended up conquering the whole of Italy 100 years later, and rebranded themselves Italian.
rmccue 3y ago
Genoa gave it to France to pay for their debt apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles_(1768) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles_(1768)
dboreham 3y ago
Something something Habsburgs?
School-Cotton 3y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_conquest_of_Corsica https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_conquest_of_Corsica Summary: “in 1767, the Republic of Genoa, exhausted by forty years of fighting, decided to sell the island to France which, after its defeat in the Seven Years' War, was trying to reinforce its position in the Mediterranean. In 1768, with the Treaty of Versailles (1768), the Genoese republic ceded all its rights on the island.” However, Corsica was already de facto independent from Genoa at this time, so France had to send troops to conquer it. In general, there are lots of places in Europe where language and culture don’t align with state borders (for example: Austria and parts of Switzerland and Italy are German-speaking, but not part of Germany). The reason usually dates to the time before modern nation-states.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > The reason usually dates to the time before modern nation-states. Also, the nation-state norm was largely aspirational when it arose (and now), and the attempts to realize it since have been as much about attempting to craft new national identities corresponding to states as to align states to pre-existing national identities.

slater 3y ago

From the XNUMXth century AD!

Tao3300 3y ago

> XNUMXth Someone forgot to go back and Find/Replace...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]