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No matter how amazing this is and how many the possibilities this opens, I can't stop thinking over the fact that browser today are extremely complex and the cu

No matter how amazing this is and how many the possibilities this opens, I can't stop thinking over the fact that browser today are extremely complex and the curve to building your own is almost too step!

kaba0 3y ago
> curve to building your own is almost too step! It’s not too steep, it is literally impossible. A whole OS is a much easier deal than a browser.
- rileyphone 3y ago
  Definitely not "literally impossible", just a great deal of work. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ladybird https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ladybird
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    You're talking about different things. You're talking about a browser that can work with some web pages. Not too hard! He's talking about a browser that works with all the web pages. That's virtually impossible. Even Microsoft gave up. Mozilla are just about hanging in the fight but I would not at all be surprised if they fail at some point. Browsers that only work with some pages are interesting to nerds, but normal people will use Chrome because it's still a great browser and it always works.
chii 3y ago
> extremely complex and the curve to building your own is almost too ste[e]p a lot of modern things have reach this point. You cannot possibly build your own car. You cannot possibly build your own house from scratch (too much of it require specialist knowledge, like building code etc).
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Building your own Linux is impossible too, but no one bitches & moans about that. No one slams Android for saying they couldn't go make their own easily. Why would the world's most successful & available hypermedia platform need to be something one can easily implement? Of course the most successful online system in the world is complex & featureful. That's why we use it & it has won.
- fragmede 3y ago
  > Building your own Linux is impossible too, > Linux From Scratch (LFS) is a project that provides you with step-by-step instructions for building your own custom Linux system, entirely from source code. https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
  - amelius 3y ago
    They meant building as in "writing the source code from scratch", not "compiling existing code".
    - LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
      Uhm... Would something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerenityOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerenityOS / https://www.serenityos.org https://www.serenityos.org count?
      - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
        Yeah it's a perfect example of a one man OS and a one man browser! Shows it's technically possible. I still think what-one-person-can-solo-recreate is an awful terrible gate to limit what software is acceptable by though! I look at how quickly & how competently people can make interesting powerful software systems on the web, that they can share & that can connect people, and I am in awe. Prioritizing recreating the platform is so low on my list of priorities: it's this time to power for devs, new & experienced, that seems like the better goal. And here the web just trounces everything else. With just vanilla and some basic html one can take a page & very quickly begin to make it dance, in all kinds of wild ways. I can take someone with a couple days of programming & pair with them & in a couple hours we can write a user script to rewrite some kind of weird or suboptimal computing experience they're already having, show them how easy it is to modify & improve their life & the online things they go through. That power is just amazing, and that there is so much freedom under the hood to be creative & do great things: that's thrilling & exciting for us all. Time to start: fast, but with deep reserves of capabilities one can always tap into: that's greatness. The web's power curve is so much more exciting than anything else I've ever gotten to share with newcomers to the field. Connecting newcomers to computing has never been better, thanks to the great & powerful web.
influx 3y ago
Even Google and Apple didn't start from scratch, they used Webkit aka KDE KHTML.
skybrian 3y ago
That’s true, but this work is a foundation for simpler alternative runtimes that don’t need an entire browser engine to run. (consider Node or Deno, which rely on V8.)

kaba0 3y ago

> curve to building your own is almost too step! It’s not too steep, it is literally impossible. A whole OS is a much easier deal than a browser.

rileyphone 3y ago
Definitely not "literally impossible", just a great deal of work. https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ladybird https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Ladybird
- IshKebab 3y ago
  You're talking about different things. You're talking about a browser that can work with some web pages. Not too hard! He's talking about a browser that works with all the web pages. That's virtually impossible. Even Microsoft gave up. Mozilla are just about hanging in the fight but I would not at all be surprised if they fail at some point. Browsers that only work with some pages are interesting to nerds, but normal people will use Chrome because it's still a great browser and it always works.

chii 3y ago

> extremely complex and the curve to building your own is almost too ste[e]p a lot of modern things have reach this point. You cannot possibly build your own car. You cannot possibly build your own house from scratch (too much of it require specialist knowledge, like building code etc).

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

Building your own Linux is impossible too, but no one bitches & moans about that. No one slams Android for saying they couldn't go make their own easily. Why would the world's most successful & available hypermedia platform need to be something one can easily implement? Of course the most successful online system in the world is complex & featureful. That's why we use it & it has won.

fragmede 3y ago
> Building your own Linux is impossible too, > Linux From Scratch (LFS) is a project that provides you with step-by-step instructions for building your own custom Linux system, entirely from source code. https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
- amelius 3y ago
  They meant building as in "writing the source code from scratch", not "compiling existing code".
  - LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
    Uhm... Would something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerenityOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerenityOS / https://www.serenityos.org https://www.serenityos.org count?
    - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
      Yeah it's a perfect example of a one man OS and a one man browser! Shows it's technically possible. I still think what-one-person-can-solo-recreate is an awful terrible gate to limit what software is acceptable by though! I look at how quickly & how competently people can make interesting powerful software systems on the web, that they can share & that can connect people, and I am in awe. Prioritizing recreating the platform is so low on my list of priorities: it's this time to power for devs, new & experienced, that seems like the better goal. And here the web just trounces everything else. With just vanilla and some basic html one can take a page & very quickly begin to make it dance, in all kinds of wild ways. I can take someone with a couple days of programming & pair with them & in a couple hours we can write a user script to rewrite some kind of weird or suboptimal computing experience they're already having, show them how easy it is to modify & improve their life & the online things they go through. That power is just amazing, and that there is so much freedom under the hood to be creative & do great things: that's thrilling & exciting for us all. Time to start: fast, but with deep reserves of capabilities one can always tap into: that's greatness. The web's power curve is so much more exciting than anything else I've ever gotten to share with newcomers to the field. Connecting newcomers to computing has never been better, thanks to the great & powerful web.

influx 3y ago

Even Google and Apple didn't start from scratch, they used Webkit aka KDE KHTML.

skybrian 3y ago

That’s true, but this work is a foundation for simpler alternative runtimes that don’t need an entire browser engine to run. (consider Node or Deno, which rely on V8.)