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The million dollar question is though "How do we improve deep sleep?" I have a sleep tracker at home and my weak point is always not getting enough deep sleep.

The million dollar question is though "How do we improve deep sleep?" I have a sleep tracker at home and my weak point is always not getting enough deep sleep. I'm not sure there's a way to force deep sleep somehow...

hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago
Lots of low hanging fruit in this arena for people who haven't made a serious effort yet. Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made, then regular exercise, and finally a midday nap during my lunch break.
- twh270 3y ago
  That's a good list (though I personally find it impossible to nap during the day). I'd add one thing: reduce stress.
- wombat-man 3y ago
  Yeah, I sleep way better if I go to bed totally sober. Generally caffeine seems to be ok if I stop after 3pm or so.
  - nick222226 3y ago
    Yep, as I get into my 30s I notice alcohol consumption drastically affects my sleep quality and time to fall asleep. I've also cut out coffee and that has helped my sinuses/upper throat a lot in the morning which were being irritated. I drink some varieties of tea instead.
- manmal 3y ago
  I‘m intrigued by the midday nap, because I think I remember reading that daytime naps worsen night sleep. I do like naps though, and find them refreshing. Have you found research that supports this?
  - beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
    The primary benefit from mid-day naps is that they simply help you relax and get some rest. You don't want them to be long, just refreshing. This is well known in athletics where most major athletes take naps as a matter of recovery and to improve their sleep quality. Presumably, feeling relaxed and rested when you go to sleep helps you get some deeper sleep and improve sleep quality.
  - 2devnull 3y ago
    Naps are terrible sleep hygiene. Any deviation from a regular set sleep schedule is bad hygiene. Better to get less sleep than to nap and disturb the sleep schedule. Many people develop insomnia this way, especially shift workers.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      It’s almost like we are not some robots with scheduled downtimes - physiology is much more complicated than to have such a mathematical truths. The only true thing we can conclude is always: this factor might correspond to this effect (and sometimes may even say that it is not only correlation)
    - dev_hugepages 3y ago
      The siesta is natural and is different from the naps taken from shift workers that are likely either interrupting night time sleep or are shifting their circadian rythm so that their "biological night" is in the day. Same thing for the "biological day" (it will be put at night) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1
  - musha68k 3y ago
    AFAIR was only the case if nap was longer than ~20 min? I don't remember if this was a consistent thing, I doubt it though as this stuff is inherently individual. Experimentation is the only way with sleep optimization..
  - jlpom 3y ago
    It does not worsen night sleep, this is a misconception. It is better than nothing but often not as good as regular sleep since you often does not goes through a full cycle.
- leetrout 3y ago
  Similar for me. I'll add that I take a small magnesium supplement mid to late afternoon as well which helps me relax and if dreams are any indication of deeper sleep I have many more memorable dreams when I'm taking magnesium.
  - JoshTko 3y ago
    What form of magnesium?
    - DrThunder 3y ago
      I use a powdered drink called 'Calm'. It's got a bit of a berry flavor to it. Start with a small amount though or you'll be shitting your pants. There are a lot of studies showing magnesium levels are far too low in people anyway so it's a good idea to supplement it.
    - willseth 3y ago
      Magnesium glycinate is typically recommended, but any form that doesn't upset your stomach is probably good.
      - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
        Magnesium L-Threonate (a.k.a. magtein) supposedly crosses the blood-brain barrier better than any other form of magnesium.
        greenbush 3y ago
        I've read that Magnesium L-Threonate is better taken in the morning to help your brain function better during the day. So, I take this in the morning and Mg glycinate at night.
    - leetrout 3y ago
      I currently use magnesium oxide in a tablet form (I use half a tablet, ~125mg). I have previously used magnesium glycinate but I don't remember what dose I used of that. I'll add, the mag oxide always prevents leg cramps when I take a full tablet (250mg) when I am working outside all day (and staying hydrated). ETA: In my experience magnesium citrate is the one mostly likely to cause diarrhea though they all can.
- 1970-01-01 3y ago
  Its not so straightforward. Caffeine consumption has been shown to reduce the chance of dementia. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/
  - shlant 3y ago
    1. Can't be sure that the effect of caffeine is more worth it than the possible impact on sleep. Better sleep probably has a wider range of benefits compared to caffeine. 2. Might not have to be one or the other - just make sure caffeine consumption is very early in the day
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Almondsetat 3y ago
    All these studies seem like cope. You drink coffee because it makes you do more things at work / you are a slob without it because of addiction. You are not drinking it because it might make you better in bed or have less dementia in 50 years. On the other hand we all need to sleep so doing it properly is a net positive
    - brigadier132 3y ago
      Caffeine is really not unhealthy. It's one of the most studied supplements ever. If you drink one cup of coffee before noon you will be perfectly fine.
      - Almondsetat 3y ago
        >if you drink one cup If you only shoot heroin once a week you will be perfectly fine How many people resist the urge and only shoot heroin once a week? We are humans, not perfectly diligent robots. The first thing you say to a person with eating disorders is to throw all the junk food from their home. It’s close to impossible to resist even the “simple” temptation of food. It’s much easier for a person to never start drinking coffee in the morning to “wake up” than starting and then quitting
- Ironlikebike 3y ago
  I have always had insomnia and have to maintain very good sleep hygiene. Here's a few things I have found that help me get to sleep: - No exercise after 18:30/6:30pm - Absolutely avoid Vitamin D and Vitamin B supplements in the evening. These will suppress deep and REM sleep and I'll sleep lightly all night long if I take them. - Hot sauna, shower, or bath before bed. - Anti-histamine (cetirizine hydrochloride aka Zyrtec) as needed - I'm allergic to my wife's dog and some nights I feel like I have bugs crawling on my skin. It can even wake me up. Things that keep me from waking up at night: - Gas X as needed to avoid acid reflux - Anti Inflammatory helps keep me from having to use the bathroom when I know I'm inflamed (getting old sucks). - No alcohol in the evening - No videogames, interesting books, or French lessons right before bed, or I'll be sleeping lightly and find myself ruminating in light sleep over these mentally engaging topics.
  - iamdbtoo 3y ago
    Would you mind sharing what you take for the anti-inflammatory? Do you take it daily?
    - Ironlikebike 3y ago
      I take Ibuprofen, and only when I can tell there is a problem (like when I've been up several times on preceding nights). It also seems correlated with junk food and alcohol. I generally have a very clean diet, and if I slip, I generally feel like I have inflammation a few days later which keeps me up at night when I wake up needing to go.
  - appplication 3y ago
    No alcohol or weed in the evening is critical for me. Either after about 5pm completely ruins my sleep.
    - MrDrMcCoy 3y ago
      I on the other hand can't get to sleep without weed, and that's my sole purpose for consuming it.
- bogota 3y ago
  Im jealous of anyone who can sleep well. I have been doing all of the above for years as well as testing out different temperatures and also not looking at screens for well over an hour before going to bed. I just can’t get good consistent deep sleep. I will say one thing that did help was i use to live in the city and after i moved outside of it and it was much much quieter at night (no trucks driving through or random sounds or honking in the middle of the night) i did notice an improvement.
  - Jedd 3y ago
    Urban sounds are a big problem for me as well, but you may want to try a white noise generator (phone app or even a small low-power fan) to hide some of those noises. The fan for me doubles as a way of getting air circulation. I keep windows open in other rooms, but not the bedroom - due to street noises. Having a CO2 monitor may give you some insights into another key factor impacting your sleep quality.
  - mirekrusin 3y ago
    Start taking GlyNAC and see how you feel after a week or two. It's crazy nobody is recommending it but me here.
    - inerte 3y ago
      I might want to try! Do you have a particular product / brand you use that’s convenient to buy? I saw another comment of your mentioning then separated, is that how you take it?
      - mirekrusin 3y ago
        Yes, I'm taking Glycine in powder (it's very cheap) from Vitality (UltraPure Glycine) and NAC from Chrisana - but I'm based in Switzerland. You should be able to find it anywhere, I'd think any brand would do just like any brand of vitamine C is likely ok.
    - 0xcafefood 3y ago
      NAC can have a number of surprising side effects for some, including anhedonia. Just be aware of the possibility before beginning to supplement it.
- spelunker 3y ago
  The biggest improvement for me by far was a CPAP.
  - alostpuppy 3y ago
    Same! If you have poor sleep, it couldn’t hurt to see a sleep doc.
  - blinding-streak 3y ago
    CPAP nade a profound difference for me. Cognitively and physically.
  - musha68k 3y ago
    Could you elaborate? Are you talking about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pressure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pre...
    - inerte 3y ago
      Not OP but given the context, yeah. CPAP machines help you breathe better and not wake up hundreds of times due to respiratory blockage. It’s almost a necessity for fat or muscular people to sleep really well.
      - Lakuma 3y ago
        I'm 145 lbs and use a CPAP because my nasal turbinates majorly swell up during the night or when I lay down. I'm urging my insurance company to cover the ClariFix procedure to hopefully fix my issue.
    - m463 3y ago
      yes, it helps with sleep apnea that many older people eventually develop. You can sleep apnea it even if you don't snore. getting a cpap can be a life changer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea
- musha68k 3y ago
  I agree, it's hard but worth it. I have the data to back it up through sleep tracking. I've always felt somewhat unfazed by coffee, yet caffeine flashbacks can be very subtle and do seem to have a measurable impact on this "user" at least. Also really darkening the bedroom and keeping the temperature as low as possible. Now if there only were a consistent solution for energetic "night owl" toddlers to go with that ever more optimized regimen :D
- alistairSH 3y ago
  Just seconding many of the suggestions so far... - no alcohol after dinner (none at all is better) - eat dinner as early as possible (before 7pm, even earlier is better) - turn off screens after 9pm (Kindle doesn't seem to impact, but phone/tablet/TV do) - exercise regularly, but not too close to bedtime - regular bed time and wake time (we go to bedroom 9:30-10, lights out 10:30, alarm at 6am). Meditation and breathing exercise can help too, but I haven't had to try those much.
- VirusNewbie 3y ago
  >Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made Are you sure the latter improved deep sleep? Alcohol is known to interfere with REM sleep, but I've actually found it lengthens the amount of time I spend in deep sleep if I have a single beer or something at dinner. I tracked this over months with a sleep tracker.
- rpmisms 3y ago
  I sleep too deeply. 1oz of liquor immediately before sleep makes me able to comprehend alarms in the morning.
  - hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago
    That sounds like the opposite of sleeping too deeply to me. That sounds like you aren't getting enough. Do yourself a favor. Take off the nightcap, put on the striped pajamas and the old-timey candle holder, and book out a full 10 hours for a few weeks. Make it non-negotiable. Full darkness, clean air, quiet, the works. Maybe even get tested for sleep apnea if you're overweight. If you go through that for 3 weeks religiously and return to the nightcap I'll eat my words and consider you a medical anomaly. But I think you'll come out of it convinced it's worth the sacrifice.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      Been there, I just sleep a full 10 hours and can't fall asleep the next night. I sleep 7 hours, that's the right amount for me. If I don't feel like drinking, I'll eat something heavy to lighten my sleep quality. I obsessively track my sleep, and this is all I've found so far. The other option is polyphasic, but that's limited in terms of practicality.
lr4444lr 3y ago
Sleep, like digestion, wound healing, or respiration, seems to be one of those complex bodily processes that can suffer from dysfunction for a variety of reasons we're only now beginning to understand rigorously. A quality polysomnography is a good place to start.
- agos 3y ago
  and to top it off, issues with digestion or respiration will impact your sleep negatively
bnralt 3y ago
One thing I’ve found that really helps is actually not worrying too much about sleep. Try to follow good basic habits, but you can become neurotic trying to follow every suggestion that people make or thinking that a few nights of horrible sleep is going to damage you for life. If I get a few nights of poor sleep nowadays I try to just shrug it off.
- leokennis 3y ago
  I have a feeling that the more "advanced" tips seen in this thread are more (personal) solutions/improvements for the situation of "I am stressed and so I cannot sleep well". I.e. to make a non-optimal situation a little better. Which is fine, but in general I'd think having the luxury of being in a calm, comfortable and unworried state of mind is the most beneficial.
_Algernon_ 3y ago
I remember reading in Why we Sleep[1] about devices that you could wear which would increase the intensity of deep sleep brain waves, thereby causing deeper sleep. Not sure how legit this is seen these days or how close such devices are to becoming available to regular consumers, but was interesting to read about. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Sleep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Sleep
jacobsimon 3y ago
I think the other key question is causality - do people who get less deep sleep develop these diseases, or do people who are developing these diseases get less deep sleep, or both? I wonder if they could design an interventional study in which people who are predisposed to dementia are given more sleep or melatonin, and then demonstrate whether it protects against the disease.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  I mean one of the common correlations between dementia and 'something else' is stress, people who are stressed get dementia more often. I guess people who are not getting enough deep sleep are also stressed.
- kzz102 3y ago
  The study does not prove causality: it is right in the title of the paper: Association Between Slow-Wave Sleep Loss and Incident Dementia. Sorry for the rant: we should not share university press release articles, they are always clickbait. Just share the research directly.
  - bookofjoe 3y ago
    dang I smiled when I read this comment
  - bradley13 3y ago
    You're right about the journal paper, but the pop-sci title implies causation. So, for those who didn't click all the way through: There is zero proof of causation. It may well be that people getting dementia have increased problems sleeping. Or both may be caused by some third factor.
heipei 3y ago
Personal anecdote, but I sleep with earplugs most of the nights as I have a very light sleep. I would wake from really small noises multiple times every night. In contrast, sleeping with earplugs feels like entering a dark and quiet chamber and then suddenly emerging after 7-8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. YMMV, but for me it's a godsend.
- globular-toast 3y ago
  I have the same problem but I've yet to find earplugs that I can wear every night. The only only ones I've been able to sleep with at all are silicone ones that mould to the shape of the ear. I can only sleep which makes things significantly more difficult but with some practice I can get the silicone ones flat and not feeling like there's pressure inside my ear which will stop me sleeping. I don't travel without these now and they have been great, but after several successive nights of use I find my ear starts to get sore and sensitive to them. The best thing, of course, is to live somewhere actually quiet. Most noise is from cars. But failing that I have to sleep with some white noise source like a fan.
  - prirun 3y ago
    I use these earplugs every night and whenever I'm exposed to noise, like vacuuming. For me, it helps me sleep better and also seems to reduce tinnitus. Note: I'm not saying wearing earplugs directly reduces tinnitus, but IMO it reduces ear stimulation because my ears are processing less sound, so my ears don't get as tired, and that seems to make my tinnitus less noticeable. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051U7W32 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051U7W32 I re-use the same set, washing them when I take a shower. I bought the above set of 50 years ago and still have many left. A couple of tricks I use with these: - I cut about 1/4" off the small end. If I don't, the earplug starts to hurt my ear if I wear it a lot, I think because it goes too far into my ear. - before using a new earplug, I wash it several times with bar soap. There is something in a new ear plug that makes it stay mashed. Maybe it suppresses more noise with that, but it also makes it hard to fit for me. I keep washing it until it is springy. This is a one-time thing with a new ear plug.
Moldoteck 3y ago
no alcohol, no coffee after 12:00, try to eat less(caloric food) at dinner & try to eat no closer than 3h before your sleep, make sure the room you sleep in is fully dark, make sure you have comfortable temperature (if you are rich, you may as well get that ultrafancy mattress that regulates the temperature), make sure pillow is comfy, not too hard&not too soft
buzzdenver 3y ago
I do not have an answer for you, but I have a very low level of trust in the deep sleep numbers, as they are based on heart rate and not brain waves.
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago
  FWIW, my Apple Watch's reports of deep sleep line up with my Zeo (EEG)'s numbers from awhile ago.
  - inerte 3y ago
    This guy over here https://youtu.be/BQMIAkt4P48?si=XQY6jLLKFpS4wkzv https://youtu.be/BQMIAkt4P48?si=XQY6jLLKFpS4wkzv is always testing fitness / sleep devices and he compares to better machines that are known to more precise. The latest Apple Watches do pretty well overall.
petesergeant 3y ago
My deep sleep has massively improved recently and consistently for the last month. Two things I've done differently (and I'm not sure which is to thank) is taking magnesium before bed each night and inhaling fluticasone. No more snoring, no more waking up tired.
thelastgallon 3y ago
Whats the sleep tracker you use? I've been looking at a few, not sure which ones are really accurate.
jncfhnb 3y ago
Try brown noise
- IndySun 3y ago
  It's Brownian noise, to be precise.
cschmidt 3y ago
This probably doesn't help you directly, but I suspect the older people mentioned in the article may often have some sleep apnea, preventing them from reaching deep sleep. I just started using a CPAP machine, which has greatly improved it for me. Making sure it is always treated could help society wide.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
samuell 3y ago
I've always had trouble falling asleep properly. I got helped by the usual suspects like avoiding caffeine after 14-15, earplugs, thick curtains and light cover over the eyes as well as cool temperatures in the sleeping room, but the big improvement came after I stopped eating after 20 in the night, and preferably earlier than that.
perbu 3y ago
According to this researched I heard an interview with about 15-20% of the population has some level of intolerance for histamines. Having high histamine levels affect sleep. I find it interesting that it is never addressed in these common list of what to try to improve sleep. It's not rocket science managing it, just a matter of avoiding high histamine food after 5pm or so. Good sleep might be worth it.
atmosx 3y ago
How does the sensor track "deep sleep" reliably?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
GuB-42 3y ago
If your sleep tracker is one of these consumer devices that you put on your wrist, they are notoriously unreliable (here is a study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7603649/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7603649/ ). Worse, they have been shown to cause unnecessary stress by causing people who are actually perfectly fine to chase numbers. As for how to improve sleep, there are plenty of advise, many of them commonsense (see in this thread). But I think that unless you are actually followed by a healthcare professional, in which case he would probably give better advise than random people on HN, how well you feel the next day is probably a better metric than some number on a smartwatch. And if the answer is "fine", I don't think there is a reason to worry much.
- evanjrowley 3y ago
  Somewhat ironically, the sleep apnea screening device I was sent is also meant to be worn on the wrist. There were three additional sensors connected to it. One for monitor chest movements for breathing, one for monitoring breath itself, and another for blood oxygen level.
daralthus 3y ago
q10 coenzyme before bed turns me into a log for the whole night
2devnull 3y ago
That’s what I don’t get and would love someone to post full text of the study. They claim this is a “modifiable” risk. I find that claim dubious and would love to see how they support that, and why this isn’t simply descriptive/correlational.
konfusinomicon 3y ago
try nasal dilators. they can be a little uncomfortable to start and some brands like to fall out mid sleep (or I subconsciously take it out and drop it in the bed), but I can attest that I sleep much deeper when I use one, or atleast the increase in quality and quantity of dreams make me think I do. also I wake up in the morning in the same position I fell asleep in and not feeling tired more often, where I usually am sleep flopping all over the place according to my other half
- QuercusMax 3y ago
  I've had good luck with nasal strips (like Breathe Right) along with an anti-snoring mouth appliance. I got one from my dentist that worked OK but it cost $1K and broke after a year. I've had good luck with the non-prescription SnoreRx mouth appliance; not so great with ZQuiet which I found hurt my front teeth.
proee 3y ago
Exercise HARD. Try doing some Zone 2 cardio for +1 hours, and see if this makes a difference. Or try some HIIT workout (Zone 5) and see how your body responds. A good overall workout machine is a rower. Try to set some kind of PR, like a 2k time trial. Push beyond what you think is possible and see how your body responds. My best sleeps are when I am physically exhausted - so weak that I could fall asleep on a couch (which is normally impossible for me).
- gjstein 3y ago
  I have some mixed feelings about this. I used to do this ~10 years ago when I was a distance runner, but now exercising so hard will throw my body off in other ways and I don't feel good having pushed so hard. Perhaps this is exactly the point you're making, but I don't target zone 5 for long these days. Deep sleep, sure, but at what cost to the rest of my body?
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    All exercise causes fatigue and fatigue management is not really discussed but it's actually not that difficult. Most of your cardio should be done in zone 2 (look up the 80/20 rule). You also may need to start with easier workouts and work your way back up to what you expect you can do. I was also a former endurance athlete and in college I stopped exercising. Numerous times I kept on trying to get back into it and I didn't succeed at getting back into it until I realized that I needed to start from square 1. I'm not fully back into it yet mind you, but I'm running 20 miles a week and lifting weights 6 days a week. A lot of my workouts are zone 2. I sleep at least 8 hours and I get roughly 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight from my diet (i also make sure all my other macro and micro nutrient needs are met). The excessive fatigue goes away if you are meeting your nutrient and sleep requirements and not consuming drugs or alcohol. Look up the "repeated bout effect". I feel like a teenager again after getting my exercise, nutrition, and sleep routine locked in. edit: To clarify what I mean about "the excessive fatigue goes away", when I first started running there would be mornings where I would wake up and have significant mental and physical fatigue and the very thought of going to exercise was repulsive to me. That goes away with time, it's also a signal to maybe take it easy for the day and do zone 2 cardio instead.
f38zf5vdt 3y ago
The study is about duration of deep sleep, not quality. And that's an easy one, you can increase the amount of deep sleep with cannabis. > Cannabis users demonstrated significantly longer sleep latency and less REM sleep overall; no other differences occurred in objective sleep measures between groups. https://bmjopenrespres.bmj.com/content/6/Suppl_1/A23.1 https://bmjopenrespres.bmj.com/content/6/Suppl_1/A23.1
- joveian 3y ago
  Your link does not support your statement, which may not be the case. Even your quoted bit suggests that cannabis just caused less REM sleep that was replaced by taking longer to get to sleep. I couldn't find a particularly good citataion but some say that THC doesn't affect deep sleep (N3) while CBD actually reduces it. All say that the situation is unclear and needs more research.
sys32768 3y ago
Try no calories after 5PM. This gives me the deepest sleep and very vivid dreams.
buildsjets 3y ago
Try a Valerian root extract supplement about an hour before your bedtime. It's extraordinary effective for me. https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/valerian https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/valerian
- ac29 3y ago
  It should be noted that Valerian works on the brains GABA system in a very similar manner to alcohol or benzodiazapines (valium, xanax, etc). This is why it is effective, but also why it should only be used short term.
unsupp0rted 3y ago
I take Magnesium an hour or so before bed and boy does my Mi Band smartwatch show a difference in deep sleep those days. Is it "real" improved deep sleep? No idea. I do blood tests for Magnesium (and D3, B12, etc) every so often to make sure I'm not poisoning myself.
barbariangrunge 3y ago
What kills sleep for me is any feeling of unfinished business. If I feel like there's a thing I need to do, good luck sleeping unless I'm completely exhausted. So I think mental health is really important, learning to have your mind at peace. Or rather, learning, one by one, how to deal with the 1000 things disturb you individually until there's not many left to keep you up
deegles 3y ago
There was a device called the Dreem headband that would use EEG and specially timed tones to increase the duration of deep sleep (look up "sleep spindles"). Unfortunately that specific feature was blocked in the US and they took it off the market. But I hope that something like that will be launched again.
oooyay 3y ago
I went through a series of traumatic events before a deployment and I stopped sleeping. I started experiencing psychosomatic events where I'd see and feel bugs crawling on me. When I saw the Wizard™ he had me start doing breathing exercises right before bed, clearing my brain, and centering myself in a space with no distractions. For me that was a endless white room. It worked and I continue to do it today when I have stressful days and I generally sleep on a consistent schedule and wake up (nearly) on the hour of when I need to wake up. From my sleep tracker I get roughly 1.5-2 hours of REM each night and roughly 6-7 hours of "sleep".
- barbariangrunge 3y ago
  Interesting. Did you learn anything else that helped you?
  - oooyay 3y ago
    Since then? Probably better managing stress and emotional events. Setting aside time to think about and feel my stress, grief, or anxiety and allowing myself to defer those things to an appropriate time has helped me a lot. Learning to bend with life a bit more than being fed up with its twists and turns has also helped. I say that in the light that in a lot of twists and turns I've figured out how to make the best of things.
ulnarkressty 3y ago
I have improved my deep sleep by taking lavender oil extract capsules. They help relax and give me a 'knock-out' feeling that rapidly induces sleep. I also don't wake up in the middle of the night anymore when I take them. Unfortunately the quality of the extract varies wildly, I would get the same effect with 80mg as I would with 400mg from another supplier. Doubly unfortunate is that one rapidly builds tolerance to it. I use it every 3rd day, so I get a deep, restful sleep twice a week. Quite a few sleep supplements have started adding it to their formulas recently, using melatonin to initiate sleep and lavender oil to sustain it. It remains to be seen what side effects it has taken long term - there aren't any studies about this available as far as I could tell.
- krrrh 3y ago
  Just a note that lavender oil is estrogenic and topical use has been associated with precocious puberty or gynocomastia in children. Small doses in adults may not be a huge issue, but I would not use it as a sleep aid for kids. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/lavender-tea-tree-oils-may-cause-breast-growth-boys https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/lavender-tea-t...
pedalpete 3y ago
We're doing neurostimulation to increase the effectiveness at deep sleep, and have spoken with the research team at Monash (where the study took place) which is looking to use our tech in some of their future studies. There is a large body of research supporting this, a selection of which you can find on our website at https://soundmind.co https://soundmind.co We don't alter the amount of time you sleep, we increase the synchronous firing of neurons, which is the hallmark of deep sleep.
interstice 3y ago
I've been stuck on <30 minutes of deep sleep for as long as I've had an Apple watch and probably much longer. Some observations I recently made: - Japan has these drinks with 200mg of GABA, I don't know if it was the 20,000 steps we were doing every day or the drinks but on the days I had it deep sleep was often (not always) closer to an hour. Strangely enough GABA is illegal here in NZ so I'm trying L-Theanine with less obvious effects. - Exercise (even 2h+ moderate) doesn't have any effect, adjusting caffeine doesn't seem to either - A warm shower immediately before bed strangely did seem to have a considerable although not perfectly consistent effect - Just got put on Concerta for ADHD and although im getting less sleep i'm also getting 40+ minutes of deep sleep. After recently doing research into GABA + Dopamine + etc it seems to be a bit of a brain circuit thing for me.
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  + orgasm before washing up Edit: am i wrong, who doesn't sleep better and easier with that outcome in-hand?
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    K during. I agree with downvoters that its best not to seperate the two. Order of operations and all that
nunez 3y ago
you really can't. You can play around with caffeine, melatonin, magnesium, weed, whatever to improve falling asleep but very little is understood about these sleep stages to begin with except "you need them" and "everyone needs a different amount of them" by far the most important thing you CAN do is have a consistent sleep schedule (every day! Including weekends!) and make your bed for sleeping and sex only.

hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago

Lots of low hanging fruit in this arena for people who haven't made a serious effort yet. Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made, then regular exercise, and finally a midday nap during my lunch break.

twh270 3y ago
That's a good list (though I personally find it impossible to nap during the day). I'd add one thing: reduce stress.
wombat-man 3y ago
Yeah, I sleep way better if I go to bed totally sober. Generally caffeine seems to be ok if I stop after 3pm or so.
- nick222226 3y ago
  Yep, as I get into my 30s I notice alcohol consumption drastically affects my sleep quality and time to fall asleep. I've also cut out coffee and that has helped my sinuses/upper throat a lot in the morning which were being irritated. I drink some varieties of tea instead.
manmal 3y ago
I‘m intrigued by the midday nap, because I think I remember reading that daytime naps worsen night sleep. I do like naps though, and find them refreshing. Have you found research that supports this?
- beezlebroxxxxxx 3y ago
  The primary benefit from mid-day naps is that they simply help you relax and get some rest. You don't want them to be long, just refreshing. This is well known in athletics where most major athletes take naps as a matter of recovery and to improve their sleep quality. Presumably, feeling relaxed and rested when you go to sleep helps you get some deeper sleep and improve sleep quality.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  Naps are terrible sleep hygiene. Any deviation from a regular set sleep schedule is bad hygiene. Better to get less sleep than to nap and disturb the sleep schedule. Many people develop insomnia this way, especially shift workers.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    It’s almost like we are not some robots with scheduled downtimes - physiology is much more complicated than to have such a mathematical truths. The only true thing we can conclude is always: this factor might correspond to this effect (and sometimes may even say that it is not only correlation)
  - dev_hugepages 3y ago
    The siesta is natural and is different from the naps taken from shift workers that are likely either interrupting night time sleep or are shifting their circadian rythm so that their "biological night" is in the day. Same thing for the "biological day" (it will be put at night) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta?wprov=sfla1
- musha68k 3y ago
  AFAIR was only the case if nap was longer than ~20 min? I don't remember if this was a consistent thing, I doubt it though as this stuff is inherently individual. Experimentation is the only way with sleep optimization..
- jlpom 3y ago
  It does not worsen night sleep, this is a misconception. It is better than nothing but often not as good as regular sleep since you often does not goes through a full cycle.
leetrout 3y ago
Similar for me. I'll add that I take a small magnesium supplement mid to late afternoon as well which helps me relax and if dreams are any indication of deeper sleep I have many more memorable dreams when I'm taking magnesium.
- JoshTko 3y ago
  What form of magnesium?
  - DrThunder 3y ago
    I use a powdered drink called 'Calm'. It's got a bit of a berry flavor to it. Start with a small amount though or you'll be shitting your pants. There are a lot of studies showing magnesium levels are far too low in people anyway so it's a good idea to supplement it.
  - willseth 3y ago
    Magnesium glycinate is typically recommended, but any form that doesn't upset your stomach is probably good.
    - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
      Magnesium L-Threonate (a.k.a. magtein) supposedly crosses the blood-brain barrier better than any other form of magnesium.
      - greenbush 3y ago
        I've read that Magnesium L-Threonate is better taken in the morning to help your brain function better during the day. So, I take this in the morning and Mg glycinate at night.
  - leetrout 3y ago
    I currently use magnesium oxide in a tablet form (I use half a tablet, ~125mg). I have previously used magnesium glycinate but I don't remember what dose I used of that. I'll add, the mag oxide always prevents leg cramps when I take a full tablet (250mg) when I am working outside all day (and staying hydrated). ETA: In my experience magnesium citrate is the one mostly likely to cause diarrhea though they all can.
1970-01-01 3y ago
Its not so straightforward. Caffeine consumption has been shown to reduce the chance of dementia. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7836063/
- shlant 3y ago
  1. Can't be sure that the effect of caffeine is more worth it than the possible impact on sleep. Better sleep probably has a wider range of benefits compared to caffeine. 2. Might not have to be one or the other - just make sure caffeine consumption is very early in the day
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Almondsetat 3y ago
  All these studies seem like cope. You drink coffee because it makes you do more things at work / you are a slob without it because of addiction. You are not drinking it because it might make you better in bed or have less dementia in 50 years. On the other hand we all need to sleep so doing it properly is a net positive
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    Caffeine is really not unhealthy. It's one of the most studied supplements ever. If you drink one cup of coffee before noon you will be perfectly fine.
    - Almondsetat 3y ago
      >if you drink one cup If you only shoot heroin once a week you will be perfectly fine How many people resist the urge and only shoot heroin once a week? We are humans, not perfectly diligent robots. The first thing you say to a person with eating disorders is to throw all the junk food from their home. It’s close to impossible to resist even the “simple” temptation of food. It’s much easier for a person to never start drinking coffee in the morning to “wake up” than starting and then quitting
Ironlikebike 3y ago
I have always had insomnia and have to maintain very good sleep hygiene. Here's a few things I have found that help me get to sleep: - No exercise after 18:30/6:30pm - Absolutely avoid Vitamin D and Vitamin B supplements in the evening. These will suppress deep and REM sleep and I'll sleep lightly all night long if I take them. - Hot sauna, shower, or bath before bed. - Anti-histamine (cetirizine hydrochloride aka Zyrtec) as needed - I'm allergic to my wife's dog and some nights I feel like I have bugs crawling on my skin. It can even wake me up. Things that keep me from waking up at night: - Gas X as needed to avoid acid reflux - Anti Inflammatory helps keep me from having to use the bathroom when I know I'm inflamed (getting old sucks). - No alcohol in the evening - No videogames, interesting books, or French lessons right before bed, or I'll be sleeping lightly and find myself ruminating in light sleep over these mentally engaging topics.
- iamdbtoo 3y ago
  Would you mind sharing what you take for the anti-inflammatory? Do you take it daily?
  - Ironlikebike 3y ago
    I take Ibuprofen, and only when I can tell there is a problem (like when I've been up several times on preceding nights). It also seems correlated with junk food and alcohol. I generally have a very clean diet, and if I slip, I generally feel like I have inflammation a few days later which keeps me up at night when I wake up needing to go.
- appplication 3y ago
  No alcohol or weed in the evening is critical for me. Either after about 5pm completely ruins my sleep.
  - MrDrMcCoy 3y ago
    I on the other hand can't get to sleep without weed, and that's my sole purpose for consuming it.
bogota 3y ago
Im jealous of anyone who can sleep well. I have been doing all of the above for years as well as testing out different temperatures and also not looking at screens for well over an hour before going to bed. I just can’t get good consistent deep sleep. I will say one thing that did help was i use to live in the city and after i moved outside of it and it was much much quieter at night (no trucks driving through or random sounds or honking in the middle of the night) i did notice an improvement.
- Jedd 3y ago
  Urban sounds are a big problem for me as well, but you may want to try a white noise generator (phone app or even a small low-power fan) to hide some of those noises. The fan for me doubles as a way of getting air circulation. I keep windows open in other rooms, but not the bedroom - due to street noises. Having a CO2 monitor may give you some insights into another key factor impacting your sleep quality.
- mirekrusin 3y ago
  Start taking GlyNAC and see how you feel after a week or two. It's crazy nobody is recommending it but me here.
  - inerte 3y ago
    I might want to try! Do you have a particular product / brand you use that’s convenient to buy? I saw another comment of your mentioning then separated, is that how you take it?
    - mirekrusin 3y ago
      Yes, I'm taking Glycine in powder (it's very cheap) from Vitality (UltraPure Glycine) and NAC from Chrisana - but I'm based in Switzerland. You should be able to find it anywhere, I'd think any brand would do just like any brand of vitamine C is likely ok.
  - 0xcafefood 3y ago
    NAC can have a number of surprising side effects for some, including anhedonia. Just be aware of the possibility before beginning to supplement it.
spelunker 3y ago
The biggest improvement for me by far was a CPAP.
- alostpuppy 3y ago
  Same! If you have poor sleep, it couldn’t hurt to see a sleep doc.
- blinding-streak 3y ago
  CPAP nade a profound difference for me. Cognitively and physically.
- musha68k 3y ago
  Could you elaborate? Are you talking about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pressure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pre...
  - inerte 3y ago
    Not OP but given the context, yeah. CPAP machines help you breathe better and not wake up hundreds of times due to respiratory blockage. It’s almost a necessity for fat or muscular people to sleep really well.
    - Lakuma 3y ago
      I'm 145 lbs and use a CPAP because my nasal turbinates majorly swell up during the night or when I lay down. I'm urging my insurance company to cover the ClariFix procedure to hopefully fix my issue.
  - m463 3y ago
    yes, it helps with sleep apnea that many older people eventually develop. You can sleep apnea it even if you don't snore. getting a cpap can be a life changer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea
musha68k 3y ago
I agree, it's hard but worth it. I have the data to back it up through sleep tracking. I've always felt somewhat unfazed by coffee, yet caffeine flashbacks can be very subtle and do seem to have a measurable impact on this "user" at least. Also really darkening the bedroom and keeping the temperature as low as possible. Now if there only were a consistent solution for energetic "night owl" toddlers to go with that ever more optimized regimen :D
alistairSH 3y ago
Just seconding many of the suggestions so far... - no alcohol after dinner (none at all is better) - eat dinner as early as possible (before 7pm, even earlier is better) - turn off screens after 9pm (Kindle doesn't seem to impact, but phone/tablet/TV do) - exercise regularly, but not too close to bedtime - regular bed time and wake time (we go to bedroom 9:30-10, lights out 10:30, alarm at 6am). Meditation and breathing exercise can help too, but I haven't had to try those much.
VirusNewbie 3y ago
>Cutting out caffeine and alcohol entirely from my diet were by far the biggest improvements I made Are you sure the latter improved deep sleep? Alcohol is known to interfere with REM sleep, but I've actually found it lengthens the amount of time I spend in deep sleep if I have a single beer or something at dinner. I tracked this over months with a sleep tracker.
rpmisms 3y ago
I sleep too deeply. 1oz of liquor immediately before sleep makes me able to comprehend alarms in the morning.
- hiAndrewQuinn 3y ago
  That sounds like the opposite of sleeping too deeply to me. That sounds like you aren't getting enough. Do yourself a favor. Take off the nightcap, put on the striped pajamas and the old-timey candle holder, and book out a full 10 hours for a few weeks. Make it non-negotiable. Full darkness, clean air, quiet, the works. Maybe even get tested for sleep apnea if you're overweight. If you go through that for 3 weeks religiously and return to the nightcap I'll eat my words and consider you a medical anomaly. But I think you'll come out of it convinced it's worth the sacrifice.
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    Been there, I just sleep a full 10 hours and can't fall asleep the next night. I sleep 7 hours, that's the right amount for me. If I don't feel like drinking, I'll eat something heavy to lighten my sleep quality. I obsessively track my sleep, and this is all I've found so far. The other option is polyphasic, but that's limited in terms of practicality.

lr4444lr 3y ago

Sleep, like digestion, wound healing, or respiration, seems to be one of those complex bodily processes that can suffer from dysfunction for a variety of reasons we're only now beginning to understand rigorously. A quality polysomnography is a good place to start.

agos 3y ago
and to top it off, issues with digestion or respiration will impact your sleep negatively

bnralt 3y ago

One thing I’ve found that really helps is actually not worrying too much about sleep. Try to follow good basic habits, but you can become neurotic trying to follow every suggestion that people make or thinking that a few nights of horrible sleep is going to damage you for life. If I get a few nights of poor sleep nowadays I try to just shrug it off.

leokennis 3y ago
I have a feeling that the more "advanced" tips seen in this thread are more (personal) solutions/improvements for the situation of "I am stressed and so I cannot sleep well". I.e. to make a non-optimal situation a little better. Which is fine, but in general I'd think having the luxury of being in a calm, comfortable and unworried state of mind is the most beneficial.

_Algernon_ 3y ago

I remember reading in Why we Sleep[1] about devices that you could wear which would increase the intensity of deep sleep brain waves, thereby causing deeper sleep. Not sure how legit this is seen these days or how close such devices are to becoming available to regular consumers, but was interesting to read about. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Sleep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Sleep

jacobsimon 3y ago

I think the other key question is causality - do people who get less deep sleep develop these diseases, or do people who are developing these diseases get less deep sleep, or both? I wonder if they could design an interventional study in which people who are predisposed to dementia are given more sleep or melatonin, and then demonstrate whether it protects against the disease.

bryanrasmussen 3y ago
I mean one of the common correlations between dementia and 'something else' is stress, people who are stressed get dementia more often. I guess people who are not getting enough deep sleep are also stressed.
kzz102 3y ago
The study does not prove causality: it is right in the title of the paper: Association Between Slow-Wave Sleep Loss and Incident Dementia. Sorry for the rant: we should not share university press release articles, they are always clickbait. Just share the research directly.
- bookofjoe 3y ago
  dang I smiled when I read this comment
- bradley13 3y ago
  You're right about the journal paper, but the pop-sci title implies causation. So, for those who didn't click all the way through: There is zero proof of causation. It may well be that people getting dementia have increased problems sleeping. Or both may be caused by some third factor.

heipei 3y ago

Personal anecdote, but I sleep with earplugs most of the nights as I have a very light sleep. I would wake from really small noises multiple times every night. In contrast, sleeping with earplugs feels like entering a dark and quiet chamber and then suddenly emerging after 7-8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. YMMV, but for me it's a godsend.

globular-toast 3y ago
I have the same problem but I've yet to find earplugs that I can wear every night. The only only ones I've been able to sleep with at all are silicone ones that mould to the shape of the ear. I can only sleep which makes things significantly more difficult but with some practice I can get the silicone ones flat and not feeling like there's pressure inside my ear which will stop me sleeping. I don't travel without these now and they have been great, but after several successive nights of use I find my ear starts to get sore and sensitive to them. The best thing, of course, is to live somewhere actually quiet. Most noise is from cars. But failing that I have to sleep with some white noise source like a fan.
- prirun 3y ago
  I use these earplugs every night and whenever I'm exposed to noise, like vacuuming. For me, it helps me sleep better and also seems to reduce tinnitus. Note: I'm not saying wearing earplugs directly reduces tinnitus, but IMO it reduces ear stimulation because my ears are processing less sound, so my ears don't get as tired, and that seems to make my tinnitus less noticeable. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051U7W32 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051U7W32 I re-use the same set, washing them when I take a shower. I bought the above set of 50 years ago and still have many left. A couple of tricks I use with these: - I cut about 1/4" off the small end. If I don't, the earplug starts to hurt my ear if I wear it a lot, I think because it goes too far into my ear. - before using a new earplug, I wash it several times with bar soap. There is something in a new ear plug that makes it stay mashed. Maybe it suppresses more noise with that, but it also makes it hard to fit for me. I keep washing it until it is springy. This is a one-time thing with a new ear plug.

Moldoteck 3y ago

no alcohol, no coffee after 12:00, try to eat less(caloric food) at dinner & try to eat no closer than 3h before your sleep, make sure the room you sleep in is fully dark, make sure you have comfortable temperature (if you are rich, you may as well get that ultrafancy mattress that regulates the temperature), make sure pillow is comfy, not too hard&not too soft

buzzdenver 3y ago

I do not have an answer for you, but I have a very low level of trust in the deep sleep numbers, as they are based on heart rate and not brain waves.

mattgreenrocks 3y ago
FWIW, my Apple Watch's reports of deep sleep line up with my Zeo (EEG)'s numbers from awhile ago.
- inerte 3y ago
  This guy over here https://youtu.be/BQMIAkt4P48?si=XQY6jLLKFpS4wkzv https://youtu.be/BQMIAkt4P48?si=XQY6jLLKFpS4wkzv is always testing fitness / sleep devices and he compares to better machines that are known to more precise. The latest Apple Watches do pretty well overall.

petesergeant 3y ago

My deep sleep has massively improved recently and consistently for the last month. Two things I've done differently (and I'm not sure which is to thank) is taking magnesium before bed each night and inhaling fluticasone. No more snoring, no more waking up tired.

thelastgallon 3y ago

Whats the sleep tracker you use? I've been looking at a few, not sure which ones are really accurate.

jncfhnb 3y ago

Try brown noise

IndySun 3y ago
It's Brownian noise, to be precise.

cschmidt 3y ago

This probably doesn't help you directly, but I suspect the older people mentioned in the article may often have some sleep apnea, preventing them from reaching deep sleep. I just started using a CPAP machine, which has greatly improved it for me. Making sure it is always treated could help society wide.

deleted 3y ago

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samuell 3y ago

I've always had trouble falling asleep properly. I got helped by the usual suspects like avoiding caffeine after 14-15, earplugs, thick curtains and light cover over the eyes as well as cool temperatures in the sleeping room, but the big improvement came after I stopped eating after 20 in the night, and preferably earlier than that.

perbu 3y ago

According to this researched I heard an interview with about 15-20% of the population has some level of intolerance for histamines. Having high histamine levels affect sleep. I find it interesting that it is never addressed in these common list of what to try to improve sleep. It's not rocket science managing it, just a matter of avoiding high histamine food after 5pm or so. Good sleep might be worth it.

atmosx 3y ago

How does the sensor track "deep sleep" reliably?

deleted 3y ago
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GuB-42 3y ago

If your sleep tracker is one of these consumer devices that you put on your wrist, they are notoriously unreliable (here is a study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7603649/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7603649/ ). Worse, they have been shown to cause unnecessary stress by causing people who are actually perfectly fine to chase numbers. As for how to improve sleep, there are plenty of advise, many of them commonsense (see in this thread). But I think that unless you are actually followed by a healthcare professional, in which case he would probably give better advise than random people on HN, how well you feel the next day is probably a better metric than some number on a smartwatch. And if the answer is "fine", I don't think there is a reason to worry much.

evanjrowley 3y ago
Somewhat ironically, the sleep apnea screening device I was sent is also meant to be worn on the wrist. There were three additional sensors connected to it. One for monitor chest movements for breathing, one for monitoring breath itself, and another for blood oxygen level.

daralthus 3y ago

q10 coenzyme before bed turns me into a log for the whole night

2devnull 3y ago

That’s what I don’t get and would love someone to post full text of the study. They claim this is a “modifiable” risk. I find that claim dubious and would love to see how they support that, and why this isn’t simply descriptive/correlational.

konfusinomicon 3y ago

try nasal dilators. they can be a little uncomfortable to start and some brands like to fall out mid sleep (or I subconsciously take it out and drop it in the bed), but I can attest that I sleep much deeper when I use one, or atleast the increase in quality and quantity of dreams make me think I do. also I wake up in the morning in the same position I fell asleep in and not feeling tired more often, where I usually am sleep flopping all over the place according to my other half

QuercusMax 3y ago
I've had good luck with nasal strips (like Breathe Right) along with an anti-snoring mouth appliance. I got one from my dentist that worked OK but it cost $1K and broke after a year. I've had good luck with the non-prescription SnoreRx mouth appliance; not so great with ZQuiet which I found hurt my front teeth.

proee 3y ago

Exercise HARD. Try doing some Zone 2 cardio for +1 hours, and see if this makes a difference. Or try some HIIT workout (Zone 5) and see how your body responds. A good overall workout machine is a rower. Try to set some kind of PR, like a 2k time trial. Push beyond what you think is possible and see how your body responds. My best sleeps are when I am physically exhausted - so weak that I could fall asleep on a couch (which is normally impossible for me).

gjstein 3y ago
I have some mixed feelings about this. I used to do this ~10 years ago when I was a distance runner, but now exercising so hard will throw my body off in other ways and I don't feel good having pushed so hard. Perhaps this is exactly the point you're making, but I don't target zone 5 for long these days. Deep sleep, sure, but at what cost to the rest of my body?
- brigadier132 3y ago
  All exercise causes fatigue and fatigue management is not really discussed but it's actually not that difficult. Most of your cardio should be done in zone 2 (look up the 80/20 rule). You also may need to start with easier workouts and work your way back up to what you expect you can do. I was also a former endurance athlete and in college I stopped exercising. Numerous times I kept on trying to get back into it and I didn't succeed at getting back into it until I realized that I needed to start from square 1. I'm not fully back into it yet mind you, but I'm running 20 miles a week and lifting weights 6 days a week. A lot of my workouts are zone 2. I sleep at least 8 hours and I get roughly 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight from my diet (i also make sure all my other macro and micro nutrient needs are met). The excessive fatigue goes away if you are meeting your nutrient and sleep requirements and not consuming drugs or alcohol. Look up the "repeated bout effect". I feel like a teenager again after getting my exercise, nutrition, and sleep routine locked in. edit: To clarify what I mean about "the excessive fatigue goes away", when I first started running there would be mornings where I would wake up and have significant mental and physical fatigue and the very thought of going to exercise was repulsive to me. That goes away with time, it's also a signal to maybe take it easy for the day and do zone 2 cardio instead.

f38zf5vdt 3y ago

The study is about duration of deep sleep, not quality. And that's an easy one, you can increase the amount of deep sleep with cannabis. > Cannabis users demonstrated significantly longer sleep latency and less REM sleep overall; no other differences occurred in objective sleep measures between groups. https://bmjopenrespres.bmj.com/content/6/Suppl_1/A23.1 https://bmjopenrespres.bmj.com/content/6/Suppl_1/A23.1

joveian 3y ago
Your link does not support your statement, which may not be the case. Even your quoted bit suggests that cannabis just caused less REM sleep that was replaced by taking longer to get to sleep. I couldn't find a particularly good citataion but some say that THC doesn't affect deep sleep (N3) while CBD actually reduces it. All say that the situation is unclear and needs more research.

sys32768 3y ago

Try no calories after 5PM. This gives me the deepest sleep and very vivid dreams.

buildsjets 3y ago

Try a Valerian root extract supplement about an hour before your bedtime. It's extraordinary effective for me. https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/valerian https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/valerian

ac29 3y ago
It should be noted that Valerian works on the brains GABA system in a very similar manner to alcohol or benzodiazapines (valium, xanax, etc). This is why it is effective, but also why it should only be used short term.

unsupp0rted 3y ago

I take Magnesium an hour or so before bed and boy does my Mi Band smartwatch show a difference in deep sleep those days. Is it "real" improved deep sleep? No idea. I do blood tests for Magnesium (and D3, B12, etc) every so often to make sure I'm not poisoning myself.

barbariangrunge 3y ago

What kills sleep for me is any feeling of unfinished business. If I feel like there's a thing I need to do, good luck sleeping unless I'm completely exhausted. So I think mental health is really important, learning to have your mind at peace. Or rather, learning, one by one, how to deal with the 1000 things disturb you individually until there's not many left to keep you up

deegles 3y ago

There was a device called the Dreem headband that would use EEG and specially timed tones to increase the duration of deep sleep (look up "sleep spindles"). Unfortunately that specific feature was blocked in the US and they took it off the market. But I hope that something like that will be launched again.

oooyay 3y ago

I went through a series of traumatic events before a deployment and I stopped sleeping. I started experiencing psychosomatic events where I'd see and feel bugs crawling on me. When I saw the Wizard™ he had me start doing breathing exercises right before bed, clearing my brain, and centering myself in a space with no distractions. For me that was a endless white room. It worked and I continue to do it today when I have stressful days and I generally sleep on a consistent schedule and wake up (nearly) on the hour of when I need to wake up. From my sleep tracker I get roughly 1.5-2 hours of REM each night and roughly 6-7 hours of "sleep".

barbariangrunge 3y ago
Interesting. Did you learn anything else that helped you?
- oooyay 3y ago
  Since then? Probably better managing stress and emotional events. Setting aside time to think about and feel my stress, grief, or anxiety and allowing myself to defer those things to an appropriate time has helped me a lot. Learning to bend with life a bit more than being fed up with its twists and turns has also helped. I say that in the light that in a lot of twists and turns I've figured out how to make the best of things.

ulnarkressty 3y ago

I have improved my deep sleep by taking lavender oil extract capsules. They help relax and give me a 'knock-out' feeling that rapidly induces sleep. I also don't wake up in the middle of the night anymore when I take them. Unfortunately the quality of the extract varies wildly, I would get the same effect with 80mg as I would with 400mg from another supplier. Doubly unfortunate is that one rapidly builds tolerance to it. I use it every 3rd day, so I get a deep, restful sleep twice a week. Quite a few sleep supplements have started adding it to their formulas recently, using melatonin to initiate sleep and lavender oil to sustain it. It remains to be seen what side effects it has taken long term - there aren't any studies about this available as far as I could tell.

krrrh 3y ago
Just a note that lavender oil is estrogenic and topical use has been associated with precocious puberty or gynocomastia in children. Small doses in adults may not be a huge issue, but I would not use it as a sleep aid for kids. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/lavender-tea-tree-oils-may-cause-breast-growth-boys https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/lavender-tea-t...

pedalpete 3y ago

We're doing neurostimulation to increase the effectiveness at deep sleep, and have spoken with the research team at Monash (where the study took place) which is looking to use our tech in some of their future studies. There is a large body of research supporting this, a selection of which you can find on our website at https://soundmind.co https://soundmind.co We don't alter the amount of time you sleep, we increase the synchronous firing of neurons, which is the hallmark of deep sleep.

interstice 3y ago

I've been stuck on <30 minutes of deep sleep for as long as I've had an Apple watch and probably much longer. Some observations I recently made: - Japan has these drinks with 200mg of GABA, I don't know if it was the 20,000 steps we were doing every day or the drinks but on the days I had it deep sleep was often (not always) closer to an hour. Strangely enough GABA is illegal here in NZ so I'm trying L-Theanine with less obvious effects. - Exercise (even 2h+ moderate) doesn't have any effect, adjusting caffeine doesn't seem to either - A warm shower immediately before bed strangely did seem to have a considerable although not perfectly consistent effect - Just got put on Concerta for ADHD and although im getting less sleep i'm also getting 40+ minutes of deep sleep. After recently doing research into GABA + Dopamine + etc it seems to be a bit of a brain circuit thing for me.

Obscurity4340 3y ago
+ orgasm before washing up Edit: am i wrong, who doesn't sleep better and easier with that outcome in-hand?
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  K during. I agree with downvoters that its best not to seperate the two. Order of operations and all that

nunez 3y ago

you really can't. You can play around with caffeine, melatonin, magnesium, weed, whatever to improve falling asleep but very little is understood about these sleep stages to begin with except "you need them" and "everyone needs a different amount of them" by far the most important thing you CAN do is have a consistent sleep schedule (every day! Including weekends!) and make your bed for sleeping and sex only.