19 ms·

AI.gov

339 points by KoftaBob 3y ago

FBISurveillance 3y ago
Reminds me of healthcare.gov. By the way, we've seen it years ago: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27048048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27048048 * https://www.nextgov.com/artificial-intelligence/2019/03/white-house-launches-aigov/155668/ https://www.nextgov.com/artificial-intelligence/2019/03/whit... Still coming soon? Kudos to OP for submitting this as a reminder.
- KoftaBob 3y ago
  Seems the website has been updated in the last hour or so, probably as a result of the executive order announced this morning: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-issues-executive-order-on-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-artificial-intelligence/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...
cedws 3y ago
Our governments care dearly about "AI safety" (nobody actually knows what that means or is qualified to define it yet) but not a right to privacy.
- Beta-7 3y ago
  > nobody actually knows what that means I sure hope it doesn't mean the government will shape the future of AI development how they see fit.
  - mattnewton 3y ago
    No that seems to be exactly the plan. Or rather, how some lobbyists they are talking to see fit. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/30/biden-artificial-intelligence-executive-order/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/30/biden-a...
    - dylan604 3y ago
      this is the real thing. this looks like it's gov't legislation, but we all know that it is corporate lobbyists that actually provide that legislation.
- lawlessone 3y ago
  >nobody actually knows what that means or is qualified to define it yet Now is the time to start talking about it and taking it seriously though. If we keep avoiding trying to define it then we'll never be qualified to do so.
- pesfandiar 3y ago
  The United States has by far the largest consumer market in the world. A right to privacy hinders access to that market and slows it down.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- zzzzzzzza 3y ago
  "Protecting Americans’ Privacy" is the second top level bullet point out of 8 top level bullet points
  - oshout 3y ago
    I realize you're making a direct reference but scare-quotes seem more applicable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes "documents of the FVEY have shown that they are intentionally spying on one another's citizens and sharing the collected information with each other"
- simonw 3y ago
  There's a section on data privacy here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/data-privacy-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/data-priva...
- phillipcarter 3y ago
  If you read the fact sheet they released (linked to on the page) you can see there's some very specific things they're outlining with regards to safety: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-issues-executive-order-on-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-artificial-intelligence/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... Your comment is a cynical one. The very people qualified to define something like AI safety for the US population is...the US Government. Which is what they're doing. If you don't like some of what they're doing, there's many pathways to making sure your voice is heard, including voting for people who would explicitly support your policy preferences.
  - asynchronous 3y ago
    I personally don’t enjoy the government enforcing monopolies and moats for the FAANGs of the world.
    - phillipcarter 3y ago
      What specifically in the order do you disagree with?
- cbozeman 3y ago
  LOL, we all know exactly what that means... > Doesn't threaten the profits of entrenched gigantic megacorps. > Doesn't threaten the status quo of the megawealthy. > Doesn't threaten the highly-entrenched people in the government. AI safety is about making AI "safe" for their pocketbooks.
- EmilioMartinez 3y ago
  What else would you expect? Both issues are about power, and I say that in the most matter-of-fact and non-judgemental fashion I can. The US government will effectively defend the privacy of American people as long as it poses a vulneravility, and that is one facet of AI safety. But a "right to privacy" as a domestic matter is different beast and there's clear malalignment.
jayp1418 3y ago
https://github.com/jaypatelani/Project7AI https://github.com/jaypatelani/Project7AI
neotrope 3y ago
Can we get an AI Force as well? If AI is a threat, only option is escalation.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Can we get an AI Force as well? In case you actually didn’t know [1]. [1] https://www.ai.mil/ https://www.ai.mil/
  - filoleg 3y ago
    I think the grandparent comment was talking about making AI Force a separate military branch, rather than a joint office under DoD. Not arguing one way or another myself, I think it makes sense for it, at least for now, to be a joint office under DoD (like it currently is, according to your link). Just wanted to make it clear that CDAO is probably not what the grandparent poster had in mind when they made that comment.
    - RIMR 3y ago
      Imagine reading the OP comment and not recognizing it as hyperbole.
- civilitty 3y ago
  The recruitment posters write themselves: https://imgur.com/a/g5Eh2ka https://imgur.com/a/g5Eh2ka
  - dmix 3y ago
    Is this original (aka AI) content? I love it
  - bogwog 3y ago
    The first poster has a typo "ECALATION", but I think that's actually more appropriate since it makes it seem AI generated. Edit: wait are they actually AI generated?! That's pretty damn good if they are!
empath-nirvana 3y ago
The US government can't legally pay the salaries required to find AI experts right now (just look at the salaries on the open positions). So all this work will end up being done by contractors who _can_ pay those salaries while the contractors skim off the top. The US really needs a special schedule for software developers if they want technical expertise in house (and they really should have technical expertise in house)
- mattnewton 3y ago
  Can’t they just use the contractor loophole?
  - hiddencost 3y ago
    Career bureaucrats have historically been more loyal to the government, IME, and have their incentives better aligned.
  - acdha 3y ago
    They can but that has several widespread problems: the biggest is that you need skilled people in the government who can review bids and oversee work – otherwise you get a $10M contact form because someone at BigCo1 wanted to play buzzword bingo and keep their buddies employed, and the “overseer” from BigCo2 wasn’t going to saying the team, often former coworkers, wasn’t performing well because that’d invite honest grading on other contracts where the relations are reversed. Beyond that, you get various efficiency issues: contractor turnover tends to be higher, which is terrible when institutional memory matters or when you’re relying on their best people to keep a larger group productive, and there are often various contractual or policy issues making work less efficient. One challenge is that managing contracts is a lot of work, so there’s a temptation to go with the big companies who offer many services but that often means that they’re only good at one area and you get mediocre results in the other ones which were lumped into the same contract - often banking on the difficulty of taking corrective action meaning that people will accept low performance in non-core areas to avoid jeopardizing a core project by the same company. None of that’s intractable but it adds up and fixing it is hard.
latchkey 3y ago
Discussions on similar submissions related to this website: Agency inventories of AI use cases https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712177 (September 4, 2022 — 2 points, 0 comments) National Artificial Intelligence Initiative https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27048048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27048048 (May 5, 2021 — 202 points, 102 comments)
lettergram 3y ago
[flagged]
- RIMR 3y ago
  Imagine if you had clicked the link and learned that this was a site for finding AI-based Government jobs, and not some sort of regulatory statement where the government was planning to "ban AI models". But that would require basic literacy, something that conservative reactionaries simply don't have.
  - lettergram 3y ago
    Right at the top there’s a link to the executive order requiring regulations and certifications from government for LLMs
cj 3y ago
This CNBC article has a good description of what's in the executive order that was issued. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/30/biden-unveils-us-governments-first-ever-ai-executive-order.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/30/biden-unveils-us-governments...
- RIMR 3y ago
  What does this have to do with the USAjobs portal that this thread is about?
  - cj 3y ago
    Perhaps it's not related at all. I assumed (incorrectly) that ai.gov is a new site connected to the exec order.
clbrmbr 3y ago
I predict the rise of anti-technology cults as the moral panic over AI and “Social” takes hold. The millions of displaced workers and disillusioned social-users will need refuge.
- api 3y ago
  I predict that AI is going to increase demand for workers in knowledge work, though it will also change the nature of some of that work. When an efficiency increasing technology comes along, things tend to grow and not shrink. Cars massively increased the number of people employed in transportation related and adjacent fields, to give just one example. Social is another beast entirely. There's already a huge backlash there, and justifiably so.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  There will also be an increase in companies and products that safeguard your data and intellectual property against theft.
  - WD40forRust 3y ago
    1) No cloud, everything local or site-to-site. If cloud, then encrypted entirely. 2) Not only FOSS operating system, but FOSS firmware and microcode, and the hardware completely documented and published. Maybe a 100% sales tax on retail price of, and 25 year software service assurances on, products containing ANY kind of Universal Machine which fail to meet this? (Elect me Benevolent Dictator For Life and I will make this happen!) 3) Cryptography and cybersecurity basics need to be taught in public schools, just like resumé writing.
- swalsh 3y ago
  I believe we're witnessing a political realignment, and anti-technology sentiments play a significant role in the evolving left/right ideologies. There's something I term the "new right," which is distinctly different from the "alt-right." The new right leans more libertarian and has a younger demographic. This group values individual liberty in financial matters (e.g., cryptocurrency), individual liberty in computing (e.g., AI), and individual liberty in manufacturing and firearms (e.g., 3D printers and semi-automatic guns). Interestingly, they also advocate for transparency regarding extraterrestrial life. It's an unusual stance, but it's part of their ideology. Of course many prominant democrats have led the charge on this, so it's probably not as cut and dry like the others. During the COVID-19 pandemic, they were skeptical of mainstream narratives, but their views were diverse; they weren't strictly anti-vaccine or pro-vaccine, anti-mask, or pro-mask. They harbored various opinions, but universally believed that the experts' confidence was misplaced. In contrast, the opposing side seems to advocate for stringent regulations on AI, cryptocurrency, and firearms. They seldom discuss extraterrestrials, primarily because they view themselves as experts, and in their eyes, the existence of aliens is implausible. The "new moderate" recognizes the potential of AI to cause widespread unemployment but also understands its immense value. They believe that a balance must be struck. The new moderate acknowledges the benefits of cryptocurrency, especially in regions lacking a stable banking system, and the potential of smart contracts. However, they also recognize its misuse by terrorists and its frequent use in schemes that prey on uninformed investors. They believe that compromise is essential, and some form of regulation is inevitable.
Racing0461 3y ago
[flagged]
- BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
  Resist what? What exactly is unusual about this?
  - JustifyContent 3y ago
    Likely a right-winger who thinks immigration - even immigration of people who are talented in developing the most important technology of our time - is really bad. So they "couldn't resist" offering more immigration opportunities to people.
    - RIMR 3y ago
      Look at his post history. He recently complained that LLMs are too "woke". So yeah, 100% a racist right winger who didn't have anything of value to say, and decided to just throw shade at immigrants when he saw the opportunity. Good news is that these guys will open their mouths at work and get themselves canned, so we usually only have to worry about them online.
      - WD40forRust 3y ago
        >racist right winger Then there is the suicidally-altruistic left winger.
        RIMR 3y ago
        "Being pro-immigration is suicidal" A perfectly non-racist statement in a world where context isn't important. A very racist statement in a world where everyone knows that you're saying that foreigners are dangerous.
  - WD40forRust 3y ago
    Driving down native wages of course! What did you think? xD
tsunamifury 3y ago
So far the support of Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook and Cisco/Akami have given the US government a business, intelligence, and social engineering platform the likes the world has never seen before, and still people today wildly undervalue its power in the world today. They have effectively deplatformed Europe, South America, the Middle East and Asia, put anyone but China within second reach from a mass data collection perspective, and expanded the economic hegemony of the US more deeply and completely than the military ever could. The US is now on the verge of the second great breakthrough of mass automation of that data, intelligence and action. I am honestly shocked that this third stage of American Dominance has not be countered by any other nation save China, and even they're only defensively. America's global brain drain might have been the single most effective strategy that the planet has seen so far... The only question is if the rest of the world is going to wake up and counter this.
- thatguysaguy 3y ago
  No one else is really capable of making this technology at the level of the US, besides maybe China. Europe has the brainpower for sure, but they don't seem to be able to leverage it into actual innovation.
  - peanuty1 3y ago
    European technologists and engineers are hamstrung by EU regulations.
    - EricE 3y ago
      Good government are like good spices - a little bit can make a dish amazing, but too much utterly ruins it.
    - azinman2 3y ago
      Is it really regulation? Or is it financing, laws about firing, cultural approaches to work, or a myriad of other differences?
CobrastanJorji 3y ago
On their "immigrate" page ( https://ai.gov/immigrate/ https://ai.gov/immigrate/ ) , they say "We must attract, train, and retain the most talented workforce in the world," and mention H-1Bs as a part of that solution. But federal law caps H-1Bs at 60,000 a year, of which over a quarter goes right to Amazon and AWS (EDIT: Turns out I'm wrong about this!). Does the government as an employer get to circumvent the cap? Or are they suggesting that a larger share should be used for AI stuff? Or are they advocating raising the cap? Or is it just a meaningless website?
- elbasti 3y ago
  Do you have a source for AWS employing 15K H1B holders? That's an insane number!
  - spullara 3y ago
    Close enough: https://h1bgrader.com https://h1bgrader.com
  - atestu 3y ago
    [dead]
  - CobrastanJorji 3y ago
    https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2023-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2023-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... No idea how reliable that site is, but it says Amazon.com sponsored 16,299, Amazon Web Services sponsored 5,056, and Amazon Development Center sponsored 2,119. So 23,474 in total. Edit: I see a note that this is APPLICATIONS, not grants. Nevermind, that's probably not accurate.
    - returningfory2 3y ago
      Those LCA applications aren’t 1-1 with H1B quota numbers. Eg after 3 years when renewing a H1B the employer needs to file an LCA but that won’t count against the cap. Similar for H1B transfers and renewals past 6 years. Overall the claim that Amazon takes 25 percent of H1Bs is extremely incorrect.
ak_111 3y ago
Off topic, my initial reaction was it would have been more of a flex if they managed to get the domain gov.ai, since US gov already owns the .gov TLD, but it turns out that this domain is already used by government of Anguilla which already owns the ai TLD. Looking into this further, I also learnt that in fact selling ai TLD has become a non-trivial part of Anguilla's GDP since chatgpt was released.
- tbrownaw 3y ago
  Even if it wasn't already used, putting putting official government stuff somewhere that's under the control of a different government is maybe not the best of plans. I'm even mildly annoyed that the website for the city I live in is under .org rather than under .${STATE_CODE}.us where it should be.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Oh, look at the tortured path that .io dollars take, since it's technically a TLD for an occupied country, being operated by someone (Ethos Capital) with no connection to or permission from the original or current inhabitants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io#History
  - ak_111 3y ago
    There is surprisingly still a lot of short-ish .ai urls available by the way, unlike io, the transition from io is still not complete.
    - james-revisoai 3y ago
      Available yes, but many are "premium/aftermarket" pricing now. There is such a high proportion of these names/prices popping up when you do domain search compared to the dominant "Unavailable" of .io or .com. Source: I've registered .ai names since 2019. I use a 5 and 8 letter fairly common english word for two .ai domains; both were standard pricing originally, but comparable available domains are now >$10k. However, I could probably at best resell my domains for < $1k each, as resell value for .ai is hard once you use them. I guess investor dollars and being seen to do something might due the demand for these premium domain options.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
exabrial 3y ago
How do I not pay for this with my tax dollars?
- nerdponx 3y ago
  If you disagree with something the President or one of his subordinate agencies does, write your representatives in Congress and ask them to pass legislation. The President can't do anything that Congress tells him not to do.
- phillipcarter 3y ago
  Good news - you're not, because your tax dollars doesn't pay for much of anything. The US Government has monetary sovereignty and "pays for things" that way.
  - exabrial 3y ago
    Then for Christmas, all I want is my gross pay.
    - phillipcarter 3y ago
      Nope, sorry :) -- taxes exist to destroy the supply of money to keep the economy in check.
BD103 3y ago
Occasionally I enjoy viewing the HTML of websites to try to deduce what web framework they are using. I couldn't figure it out for this one, but here are some things that I find interesting: - On line 90 of the homepage, there is a single script called `document.createElement('main');` - The website uses the `<picture />` tag to support multiple sources for images - script.js on the website has ANSI art of the US flag (https://ai.gov/wp-content/themes/static/ai46/assets/js/scripts.js https://ai.gov/wp-content/themes/static/ai46/assets/js/scrip...)
- rob 3y ago
  You answered your question with your third point's URL ('/wp-content/themes/[...]') - they're using WordPress. :)
  - dmix 3y ago
    Wordpress isn't really a web framework, it's a CMS with custom built themes which may include various frameworks.
- aaviator42 3y ago
  CMS: WordPress UI: USWDS: https://designsystem.digital.gov/ https://designsystem.digital.gov/ Source: Wappalyzer
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ajcp 3y ago
  I do too! I cracked open an internal tool we had one of the big consulting firms build for us to see why it sucked so much. In one of the header elements they had hardcoded the URL for a QA site they built for a large car dealer. Fun stuff.
- cbozeman 3y ago
  America is so patriotic, we put our flag into a script. To quote Jeremy Irons playing Simon Gruber from Die Hard With A Vengeance, "HAH! God, I love this country!"
jjcm 3y ago
The Presidential Innovation Fellow is the highest level role they're offering as part of this. For this, the requirements are "mid-senior/executive career professional experience in a subject matter expertise" with "experience collaborating with and leading cross-functional teams". The requirements feel analogous to a staff/principal level role in the software industry, so just for comparison here's the compensation for these roles across the giants: Microsoft (level 66): $390,707 Amazon (L7): $547,490 Facebook (E6): $610,713 Apple (ICT5): $497,780 Google (L6): $506,141 US Gov: $155,700 to start, with a max of $183,500 after 18 years (step increases are limited on a time basis) The US government is trying to leverage AI by paying 30.4% the wage of the leaders in private industry. I just don't see how they're going to be effective in doing this.
- nojito 3y ago
  >I just don't see how they're going to be effective in doing this. Why not? That fellowship is extraordinarily competitive and is filled with former FAANG folks.
- 93po 3y ago
  I assume they're targeting people who aren't competitive candidates for big high paying companies. There's plenty of super mediocre to bad developers out there (myself included) that would never stand a chance applying there. I've been developing software for a decade and the most I've ever made is $110k, and that was in high cost of living areas like Denver and Seattle.
  - wslack 3y ago
    The pay cap is set in law, but you need people sufficiently invested in the mission to forgo a higher possible salary, which isn't possible for everyone (especially folks who might have to support their parents).
    - myhf 3y ago
      It's possible for anyone who can expect to make money from speculation or bribes due to steering policy in a certain direction.
atlasunshrugged 3y ago
There are a lot of folks interested in or concerned with what the government is doing here. I would just mention that going to government on a lower salary isn't a binary thing and you can do impactful work for 1-3 years. Places like TechCongress, Presidential Innovation Fellows, and myriad other fellowships have popped up to support this.
- ajcp 3y ago
  First I've heard of TechCongress, thanks much!
robg 3y ago
I was a Presidential Innovation Fellow for almost three years at FDA / Veterans Affairs, happy to answer any questions. The program is looking for industry experiences to better inform and shape government policies.
- lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
  Do you have any tips on how to stand out in the crowd? What is the government looking for in an application, generally?
  - wslack 3y ago
    Serving at USDS, posting personally. The biggest thing with the gov is the requirements on usajobs are always explained specifically so you know exactly what is needed. Beyond that, you'll want to show in your resume how you've delivered successfully and ideally in challenging circumstances, because working in the gov can be challenging. It will really vary depending on the job and agency.
  - robg 3y ago
    To echo wslack, experiences with moving initiatives through grit and collegiality is key. The PIF program is a bit easier to apply for than USAjobs and really focuses on being more of an entrepreneur-in-residence, as much as that’s possible in government. I was able to work horizontally in a way that would have been challenging otherwise.
ssalka 3y ago
Interesting that on the page of AI use cases[1], as well as the "full list" CSV[2], Department of Defense is simply left out. I guess they're happy to advertise all the Good Uses of AI, but don't want to publicize the Bad Uses that are definitely being pursued. [1] https://ai.gov/ai-use-cases/ https://ai.gov/ai-use-cases/ [2] https://ai.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023%20Consolidated%20AI%20Use%20Case%20Inventory%20(PUBLIC).csv https://ai.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023%20Consolidate...
seydor 3y ago
But why? Isn't AI supposed to replace the AI laborers they want to covet?
forthwall 3y ago
I would really love to work for the USDS; ever since their big publicity outreach during the obama admin, too bad the salaries are abysmal comparably to most tech companies. 184k top band in san francisco; 150k in DC. I could join a mid tier firm in SF for 250k base; not even bonus for a senior level. I wish they could create a special schedule.
- wslack 3y ago
  FWIW both DC and SF top out at 183,500 now.
curiousllama 3y ago
Lots of folks commenting about salary but that's not even the biggest drawback here. Org instability is. The presidential innovation fellows are 1-year stints, and after the next election, there might not be a next role. Maybe a campaign? Maybe a consulting firm? Unclear. Even if the parties don't flip - senior leaders churn through fast. I love this attempt, but I can't imagine trying to be a mid-senior tech leader in an organization where, in 18 months, the next guy might be trying to actively tear down your work.
- ajcp 3y ago
  I mean, that's an issue with administration turn-over in general. With the PIF it looks like they get spread around to various agencies, so I don't think a fellow from one cohort is likely to be assigned to the same agency and project as a previous one.
theultdev 3y ago
Is there any other type of development where you have to inform the US gov about it when you start developing it? The EO says you must inform the gov when you start the training the AI if it's a risk to public health, etc. How would one determine if it's a risk? Who determines the risk (I assume the government). So effectively that means the gov determines what is right/wrong, true/false. Not good.
- _mitterpach 3y ago
  My friend, it is quite literally the goverment's job to decide what is right or wrong through drafting and enacting laws. I am not stating that having to inform the government when you're training models is right. It's an asinine way of thinking by people who have no idea what they're talking about and are severely out of touch. The laws they've enacted were based on fear, often propagated by OpenAI themselves. It is still their job to do that though.
  - theultdev 3y ago
    > My friend, it is quite literally the goverment's job to decide what is right or wrong through drafting and enacting laws. It is not their job to say what is true or false. That's propaganda. They also do not have the right to enforce what you train your AI to say. Would love to see the SC challenge this EO. It violates the 1A.
acec 3y ago
Skynet.gov Soon.
acec 3y ago
Skynet.gov Soon...
spandextwins 3y ago
Most of the ai jobs advertised are with the IRS.
gardenhedge 3y ago
Silly question - but what do people in AI related roles do? Are they looking for software engineers to use/integrate AI products such as OpenAI APIs or are they looking for researchers working on AI papers trying to break new ground?

339 points by KoftaBob 3y ago

Reminds me of healthcare.gov. By the way, we've seen it years ago: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27048048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27048048 * https://www.nextgov.com/artificial-intelligence/2019/03/white-house-launches-aigov/155668/ https://www.nextgov.com/artificial-intelligence/2019/03/whit... Still coming soon? Kudos to OP for submitting this as a reminder.

KoftaBob 3y ago
Seems the website has been updated in the last hour or so, probably as a result of the executive order announced this morning: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-issues-executive-order-on-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-artificial-intelligence/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

cedws 3y ago

Our governments care dearly about "AI safety" (nobody actually knows what that means or is qualified to define it yet) but not a right to privacy.

Beta-7 3y ago
> nobody actually knows what that means I sure hope it doesn't mean the government will shape the future of AI development how they see fit.
- mattnewton 3y ago
  No that seems to be exactly the plan. Or rather, how some lobbyists they are talking to see fit. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/30/biden-artificial-intelligence-executive-order/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/10/30/biden-a...
  - dylan604 3y ago
    this is the real thing. this looks like it's gov't legislation, but we all know that it is corporate lobbyists that actually provide that legislation.
lawlessone 3y ago
>nobody actually knows what that means or is qualified to define it yet Now is the time to start talking about it and taking it seriously though. If we keep avoiding trying to define it then we'll never be qualified to do so.
pesfandiar 3y ago
The United States has by far the largest consumer market in the world. A right to privacy hinders access to that market and slows it down.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
zzzzzzzza 3y ago
"Protecting Americans’ Privacy" is the second top level bullet point out of 8 top level bullet points
- oshout 3y ago
  I realize you're making a direct reference but scare-quotes seem more applicable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes "documents of the FVEY have shown that they are intentionally spying on one another's citizens and sharing the collected information with each other"
simonw 3y ago
There's a section on data privacy here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/data-privacy-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/ai-bill-of-rights/data-priva...
phillipcarter 3y ago
If you read the fact sheet they released (linked to on the page) you can see there's some very specific things they're outlining with regards to safety: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-issues-executive-order-on-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-artificial-intelligence/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... Your comment is a cynical one. The very people qualified to define something like AI safety for the US population is...the US Government. Which is what they're doing. If you don't like some of what they're doing, there's many pathways to making sure your voice is heard, including voting for people who would explicitly support your policy preferences.
- asynchronous 3y ago
  I personally don’t enjoy the government enforcing monopolies and moats for the FAANGs of the world.
  - phillipcarter 3y ago
    What specifically in the order do you disagree with?
cbozeman 3y ago
LOL, we all know exactly what that means... > Doesn't threaten the profits of entrenched gigantic megacorps. > Doesn't threaten the status quo of the megawealthy. > Doesn't threaten the highly-entrenched people in the government. AI safety is about making AI "safe" for their pocketbooks.
EmilioMartinez 3y ago
What else would you expect? Both issues are about power, and I say that in the most matter-of-fact and non-judgemental fashion I can. The US government will effectively defend the privacy of American people as long as it poses a vulneravility, and that is one facet of AI safety. But a "right to privacy" as a domestic matter is different beast and there's clear malalignment.

jayp1418 3y ago

https://github.com/jaypatelani/Project7AI https://github.com/jaypatelani/Project7AI

neotrope 3y ago

Can we get an AI Force as well? If AI is a threat, only option is escalation.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Can we get an AI Force as well? In case you actually didn’t know [1]. [1] https://www.ai.mil/ https://www.ai.mil/
- filoleg 3y ago
  I think the grandparent comment was talking about making AI Force a separate military branch, rather than a joint office under DoD. Not arguing one way or another myself, I think it makes sense for it, at least for now, to be a joint office under DoD (like it currently is, according to your link). Just wanted to make it clear that CDAO is probably not what the grandparent poster had in mind when they made that comment.
  - RIMR 3y ago
    Imagine reading the OP comment and not recognizing it as hyperbole.
civilitty 3y ago
The recruitment posters write themselves: https://imgur.com/a/g5Eh2ka https://imgur.com/a/g5Eh2ka
- dmix 3y ago
  Is this original (aka AI) content? I love it
- bogwog 3y ago
  The first poster has a typo "ECALATION", but I think that's actually more appropriate since it makes it seem AI generated. Edit: wait are they actually AI generated?! That's pretty damn good if they are!

empath-nirvana 3y ago

The US government can't legally pay the salaries required to find AI experts right now (just look at the salaries on the open positions). So all this work will end up being done by contractors who _can_ pay those salaries while the contractors skim off the top. The US really needs a special schedule for software developers if they want technical expertise in house (and they really should have technical expertise in house)

mattnewton 3y ago
Can’t they just use the contractor loophole?
- hiddencost 3y ago
  Career bureaucrats have historically been more loyal to the government, IME, and have their incentives better aligned.
- acdha 3y ago
  They can but that has several widespread problems: the biggest is that you need skilled people in the government who can review bids and oversee work – otherwise you get a $10M contact form because someone at BigCo1 wanted to play buzzword bingo and keep their buddies employed, and the “overseer” from BigCo2 wasn’t going to saying the team, often former coworkers, wasn’t performing well because that’d invite honest grading on other contracts where the relations are reversed. Beyond that, you get various efficiency issues: contractor turnover tends to be higher, which is terrible when institutional memory matters or when you’re relying on their best people to keep a larger group productive, and there are often various contractual or policy issues making work less efficient. One challenge is that managing contracts is a lot of work, so there’s a temptation to go with the big companies who offer many services but that often means that they’re only good at one area and you get mediocre results in the other ones which were lumped into the same contract - often banking on the difficulty of taking corrective action meaning that people will accept low performance in non-core areas to avoid jeopardizing a core project by the same company. None of that’s intractable but it adds up and fixing it is hard.

latchkey 3y ago

Discussions on similar submissions related to this website: Agency inventories of AI use cases https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712177 (September 4, 2022 — 2 points, 0 comments) National Artificial Intelligence Initiative https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27048048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27048048 (May 5, 2021 — 202 points, 102 comments)

lettergram 3y ago

[flagged]

RIMR 3y ago
Imagine if you had clicked the link and learned that this was a site for finding AI-based Government jobs, and not some sort of regulatory statement where the government was planning to "ban AI models". But that would require basic literacy, something that conservative reactionaries simply don't have.
- lettergram 3y ago
  Right at the top there’s a link to the executive order requiring regulations and certifications from government for LLMs

cj 3y ago

This CNBC article has a good description of what's in the executive order that was issued. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/30/biden-unveils-us-governments-first-ever-ai-executive-order.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/30/biden-unveils-us-governments...

RIMR 3y ago
What does this have to do with the USAjobs portal that this thread is about?
- cj 3y ago
  Perhaps it's not related at all. I assumed (incorrectly) that ai.gov is a new site connected to the exec order.

clbrmbr 3y ago

I predict the rise of anti-technology cults as the moral panic over AI and “Social” takes hold. The millions of displaced workers and disillusioned social-users will need refuge.

api 3y ago
I predict that AI is going to increase demand for workers in knowledge work, though it will also change the nature of some of that work. When an efficiency increasing technology comes along, things tend to grow and not shrink. Cars massively increased the number of people employed in transportation related and adjacent fields, to give just one example. Social is another beast entirely. There's already a huge backlash there, and justifiably so.
gumballindie 3y ago
There will also be an increase in companies and products that safeguard your data and intellectual property against theft.
- WD40forRust 3y ago
  1) No cloud, everything local or site-to-site. If cloud, then encrypted entirely. 2) Not only FOSS operating system, but FOSS firmware and microcode, and the hardware completely documented and published. Maybe a 100% sales tax on retail price of, and 25 year software service assurances on, products containing ANY kind of Universal Machine which fail to meet this? (Elect me Benevolent Dictator For Life and I will make this happen!) 3) Cryptography and cybersecurity basics need to be taught in public schools, just like resumé writing.
swalsh 3y ago
I believe we're witnessing a political realignment, and anti-technology sentiments play a significant role in the evolving left/right ideologies. There's something I term the "new right," which is distinctly different from the "alt-right." The new right leans more libertarian and has a younger demographic. This group values individual liberty in financial matters (e.g., cryptocurrency), individual liberty in computing (e.g., AI), and individual liberty in manufacturing and firearms (e.g., 3D printers and semi-automatic guns). Interestingly, they also advocate for transparency regarding extraterrestrial life. It's an unusual stance, but it's part of their ideology. Of course many prominant democrats have led the charge on this, so it's probably not as cut and dry like the others. During the COVID-19 pandemic, they were skeptical of mainstream narratives, but their views were diverse; they weren't strictly anti-vaccine or pro-vaccine, anti-mask, or pro-mask. They harbored various opinions, but universally believed that the experts' confidence was misplaced. In contrast, the opposing side seems to advocate for stringent regulations on AI, cryptocurrency, and firearms. They seldom discuss extraterrestrials, primarily because they view themselves as experts, and in their eyes, the existence of aliens is implausible. The "new moderate" recognizes the potential of AI to cause widespread unemployment but also understands its immense value. They believe that a balance must be struck. The new moderate acknowledges the benefits of cryptocurrency, especially in regions lacking a stable banking system, and the potential of smart contracts. However, they also recognize its misuse by terrorists and its frequent use in schemes that prey on uninformed investors. They believe that compromise is essential, and some form of regulation is inevitable.

Racing0461 3y ago

[flagged]

BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
Resist what? What exactly is unusual about this?
- JustifyContent 3y ago
  Likely a right-winger who thinks immigration - even immigration of people who are talented in developing the most important technology of our time - is really bad. So they "couldn't resist" offering more immigration opportunities to people.
  - RIMR 3y ago
    Look at his post history. He recently complained that LLMs are too "woke". So yeah, 100% a racist right winger who didn't have anything of value to say, and decided to just throw shade at immigrants when he saw the opportunity. Good news is that these guys will open their mouths at work and get themselves canned, so we usually only have to worry about them online.
    - WD40forRust 3y ago
      >racist right winger Then there is the suicidally-altruistic left winger.
      - RIMR 3y ago
        "Being pro-immigration is suicidal" A perfectly non-racist statement in a world where context isn't important. A very racist statement in a world where everyone knows that you're saying that foreigners are dangerous.
- WD40forRust 3y ago
  Driving down native wages of course! What did you think? xD

tsunamifury 3y ago

So far the support of Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook and Cisco/Akami have given the US government a business, intelligence, and social engineering platform the likes the world has never seen before, and still people today wildly undervalue its power in the world today. They have effectively deplatformed Europe, South America, the Middle East and Asia, put anyone but China within second reach from a mass data collection perspective, and expanded the economic hegemony of the US more deeply and completely than the military ever could. The US is now on the verge of the second great breakthrough of mass automation of that data, intelligence and action. I am honestly shocked that this third stage of American Dominance has not be countered by any other nation save China, and even they're only defensively. America's global brain drain might have been the single most effective strategy that the planet has seen so far... The only question is if the rest of the world is going to wake up and counter this.

thatguysaguy 3y ago
No one else is really capable of making this technology at the level of the US, besides maybe China. Europe has the brainpower for sure, but they don't seem to be able to leverage it into actual innovation.
- peanuty1 3y ago
  European technologists and engineers are hamstrung by EU regulations.
  - EricE 3y ago
    Good government are like good spices - a little bit can make a dish amazing, but too much utterly ruins it.
  - azinman2 3y ago
    Is it really regulation? Or is it financing, laws about firing, cultural approaches to work, or a myriad of other differences?

CobrastanJorji 3y ago

On their "immigrate" page ( https://ai.gov/immigrate/ https://ai.gov/immigrate/ ) , they say "We must attract, train, and retain the most talented workforce in the world," and mention H-1Bs as a part of that solution. But federal law caps H-1Bs at 60,000 a year, of which over a quarter goes right to Amazon and AWS (EDIT: Turns out I'm wrong about this!). Does the government as an employer get to circumvent the cap? Or are they suggesting that a larger share should be used for AI stuff? Or are they advocating raising the cap? Or is it just a meaningless website?

elbasti 3y ago
Do you have a source for AWS employing 15K H1B holders? That's an insane number!
- spullara 3y ago
  Close enough: https://h1bgrader.com https://h1bgrader.com
- atestu 3y ago
  [dead]
- CobrastanJorji 3y ago
  https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2023-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2023-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... No idea how reliable that site is, but it says Amazon.com sponsored 16,299, Amazon Web Services sponsored 5,056, and Amazon Development Center sponsored 2,119. So 23,474 in total. Edit: I see a note that this is APPLICATIONS, not grants. Nevermind, that's probably not accurate.
  - returningfory2 3y ago
    Those LCA applications aren’t 1-1 with H1B quota numbers. Eg after 3 years when renewing a H1B the employer needs to file an LCA but that won’t count against the cap. Similar for H1B transfers and renewals past 6 years. Overall the claim that Amazon takes 25 percent of H1Bs is extremely incorrect.

ak_111 3y ago

Off topic, my initial reaction was it would have been more of a flex if they managed to get the domain gov.ai, since US gov already owns the .gov TLD, but it turns out that this domain is already used by government of Anguilla which already owns the ai TLD. Looking into this further, I also learnt that in fact selling ai TLD has become a non-trivial part of Anguilla's GDP since chatgpt was released.

tbrownaw 3y ago
Even if it wasn't already used, putting putting official government stuff somewhere that's under the control of a different government is maybe not the best of plans. I'm even mildly annoyed that the website for the city I live in is under .org rather than under .${STATE_CODE}.us where it should be.
ethbr1 3y ago
Oh, look at the tortured path that .io dollars take, since it's technically a TLD for an occupied country, being operated by someone (Ethos Capital) with no connection to or permission from the original or current inhabitants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.io#History
- ak_111 3y ago
  There is surprisingly still a lot of short-ish .ai urls available by the way, unlike io, the transition from io is still not complete.
  - james-revisoai 3y ago
    Available yes, but many are "premium/aftermarket" pricing now. There is such a high proportion of these names/prices popping up when you do domain search compared to the dominant "Unavailable" of .io or .com. Source: I've registered .ai names since 2019. I use a 5 and 8 letter fairly common english word for two .ai domains; both were standard pricing originally, but comparable available domains are now >$10k. However, I could probably at best resell my domains for < $1k each, as resell value for .ai is hard once you use them. I guess investor dollars and being seen to do something might due the demand for these premium domain options.

deleted 3y ago

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exabrial 3y ago

How do I not pay for this with my tax dollars?

nerdponx 3y ago
If you disagree with something the President or one of his subordinate agencies does, write your representatives in Congress and ask them to pass legislation. The President can't do anything that Congress tells him not to do.
phillipcarter 3y ago
Good news - you're not, because your tax dollars doesn't pay for much of anything. The US Government has monetary sovereignty and "pays for things" that way.
- exabrial 3y ago
  Then for Christmas, all I want is my gross pay.
  - phillipcarter 3y ago
    Nope, sorry :) -- taxes exist to destroy the supply of money to keep the economy in check.

BD103 3y ago

Occasionally I enjoy viewing the HTML of websites to try to deduce what web framework they are using. I couldn't figure it out for this one, but here are some things that I find interesting: - On line 90 of the homepage, there is a single script called `document.createElement('main');` - The website uses the `<picture />` tag to support multiple sources for images - script.js on the website has ANSI art of the US flag (https://ai.gov/wp-content/themes/static/ai46/assets/js/scripts.js https://ai.gov/wp-content/themes/static/ai46/assets/js/scrip...)

rob 3y ago
You answered your question with your third point's URL ('/wp-content/themes/[...]') - they're using WordPress. :)
- dmix 3y ago
  Wordpress isn't really a web framework, it's a CMS with custom built themes which may include various frameworks.
aaviator42 3y ago
CMS: WordPress UI: USWDS: https://designsystem.digital.gov/ https://designsystem.digital.gov/ Source: Wappalyzer
deleted 3y ago
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ajcp 3y ago
I do too! I cracked open an internal tool we had one of the big consulting firms build for us to see why it sucked so much. In one of the header elements they had hardcoded the URL for a QA site they built for a large car dealer. Fun stuff.
cbozeman 3y ago
America is so patriotic, we put our flag into a script. To quote Jeremy Irons playing Simon Gruber from Die Hard With A Vengeance, "HAH! God, I love this country!"

jjcm 3y ago

The Presidential Innovation Fellow is the highest level role they're offering as part of this. For this, the requirements are "mid-senior/executive career professional experience in a subject matter expertise" with "experience collaborating with and leading cross-functional teams". The requirements feel analogous to a staff/principal level role in the software industry, so just for comparison here's the compensation for these roles across the giants: Microsoft (level 66): $390,707 Amazon (L7): $547,490 Facebook (E6): $610,713 Apple (ICT5): $497,780 Google (L6): $506,141 US Gov: $155,700 to start, with a max of $183,500 after 18 years (step increases are limited on a time basis) The US government is trying to leverage AI by paying 30.4% the wage of the leaders in private industry. I just don't see how they're going to be effective in doing this.

nojito 3y ago
>I just don't see how they're going to be effective in doing this. Why not? That fellowship is extraordinarily competitive and is filled with former FAANG folks.
93po 3y ago
I assume they're targeting people who aren't competitive candidates for big high paying companies. There's plenty of super mediocre to bad developers out there (myself included) that would never stand a chance applying there. I've been developing software for a decade and the most I've ever made is $110k, and that was in high cost of living areas like Denver and Seattle.
- wslack 3y ago
  The pay cap is set in law, but you need people sufficiently invested in the mission to forgo a higher possible salary, which isn't possible for everyone (especially folks who might have to support their parents).
  - myhf 3y ago
    It's possible for anyone who can expect to make money from speculation or bribes due to steering policy in a certain direction.

atlasunshrugged 3y ago

There are a lot of folks interested in or concerned with what the government is doing here. I would just mention that going to government on a lower salary isn't a binary thing and you can do impactful work for 1-3 years. Places like TechCongress, Presidential Innovation Fellows, and myriad other fellowships have popped up to support this.

ajcp 3y ago
First I've heard of TechCongress, thanks much!

robg 3y ago

I was a Presidential Innovation Fellow for almost three years at FDA / Veterans Affairs, happy to answer any questions. The program is looking for industry experiences to better inform and shape government policies.

lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
Do you have any tips on how to stand out in the crowd? What is the government looking for in an application, generally?
- wslack 3y ago
  Serving at USDS, posting personally. The biggest thing with the gov is the requirements on usajobs are always explained specifically so you know exactly what is needed. Beyond that, you'll want to show in your resume how you've delivered successfully and ideally in challenging circumstances, because working in the gov can be challenging. It will really vary depending on the job and agency.
- robg 3y ago
  To echo wslack, experiences with moving initiatives through grit and collegiality is key. The PIF program is a bit easier to apply for than USAjobs and really focuses on being more of an entrepreneur-in-residence, as much as that’s possible in government. I was able to work horizontally in a way that would have been challenging otherwise.

ssalka 3y ago

Interesting that on the page of AI use cases[1], as well as the "full list" CSV[2], Department of Defense is simply left out. I guess they're happy to advertise all the Good Uses of AI, but don't want to publicize the Bad Uses that are definitely being pursued. [1] https://ai.gov/ai-use-cases/ https://ai.gov/ai-use-cases/ [2] https://ai.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023%20Consolidated%20AI%20Use%20Case%20Inventory%20(PUBLIC).csv https://ai.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023%20Consolidate...

seydor 3y ago

But why? Isn't AI supposed to replace the AI laborers they want to covet?

forthwall 3y ago

I would really love to work for the USDS; ever since their big publicity outreach during the obama admin, too bad the salaries are abysmal comparably to most tech companies. 184k top band in san francisco; 150k in DC. I could join a mid tier firm in SF for 250k base; not even bonus for a senior level. I wish they could create a special schedule.

wslack 3y ago
FWIW both DC and SF top out at 183,500 now.

curiousllama 3y ago

Lots of folks commenting about salary but that's not even the biggest drawback here. Org instability is. The presidential innovation fellows are 1-year stints, and after the next election, there might not be a next role. Maybe a campaign? Maybe a consulting firm? Unclear. Even if the parties don't flip - senior leaders churn through fast. I love this attempt, but I can't imagine trying to be a mid-senior tech leader in an organization where, in 18 months, the next guy might be trying to actively tear down your work.

ajcp 3y ago
I mean, that's an issue with administration turn-over in general. With the PIF it looks like they get spread around to various agencies, so I don't think a fellow from one cohort is likely to be assigned to the same agency and project as a previous one.

theultdev 3y ago

Is there any other type of development where you have to inform the US gov about it when you start developing it? The EO says you must inform the gov when you start the training the AI if it's a risk to public health, etc. How would one determine if it's a risk? Who determines the risk (I assume the government). So effectively that means the gov determines what is right/wrong, true/false. Not good.

_mitterpach 3y ago
My friend, it is quite literally the goverment's job to decide what is right or wrong through drafting and enacting laws. I am not stating that having to inform the government when you're training models is right. It's an asinine way of thinking by people who have no idea what they're talking about and are severely out of touch. The laws they've enacted were based on fear, often propagated by OpenAI themselves. It is still their job to do that though.
- theultdev 3y ago
  > My friend, it is quite literally the goverment's job to decide what is right or wrong through drafting and enacting laws. It is not their job to say what is true or false. That's propaganda. They also do not have the right to enforce what you train your AI to say. Would love to see the SC challenge this EO. It violates the 1A.

acec 3y ago

Skynet.gov Soon.

acec 3y ago

Skynet.gov Soon...

spandextwins 3y ago

Most of the ai jobs advertised are with the IRS.

gardenhedge 3y ago

Silly question - but what do people in AI related roles do? Are they looking for software engineers to use/integrate AI products such as OpenAI APIs or are they looking for researchers working on AI papers trying to break new ground?