29 ms·

The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

141 points by sharno 3y ago

asylteltine 3y ago
[dead]
lordofgibbons 3y ago
Hopefully news crews brought their satellite broadcasting equipment. It's important for the world not be blocked off from seeing what's going on regardless of which side you support.
- deleted 3y ago
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- bhouston 3y ago
  After the horrendous Hamas attacks of October 7 a portion of the Israeli public sort of lost it and have outright called for retribution. I worry that this indiscriminate bombing campaign combined with a near complete blockade of food, electricity, water of the last two weeks is reflective of that. Now with a lack of communication, I worry about Palestinians. You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredients for something really bad are all here.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    > You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredients for something really bad are all here. Something really bad has been happening there for the last decades, but it's so messed up and mixed up in past mistakes, revenge and religion that there is no more ability to reason with either side. What really galls me is that we were so close to finally solving this and then Rabin was murdered (by his own side, go figure) and it all went to pieces.
    - edanm 3y ago
      > and then Rabin was murdered (by his own side, go figure) I don't think you can really call the lunatic who killed Rabin (or worse, the lunatics that urged him on and enabled him) part of Rabin's side.
  - culi 3y ago
    > have outright called for retribution When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014 they killed 2,310 people. 70% were civilians. In return they lost only 67 soldiers. They also destroyed 7-10k homes and damaged 87k other homes. Between 2005-2008, 1,754 Palestinians and 117 Israelis have lost their lives due to the ongoing occupation. Between 2008-2023 2,329 more Palestinians and 308 more Israeli people lost their lives. The vast majority of Israeli casualties are soldiers and the vast majority of Palestinian casualties are civilian. Now in the span of just a few days Israel has killed over 7k more Palestinians. This isn't "retribution". This is an ongoing genocide. One which the UN has tried to intercede OVER and OVER and OVER again but always fails. Despite almost every single country in the UN voting on the side of Palestine there is one country that ensures Israel is never held accountable for its war crimes: the United States. Between 1954 and 2023 the US has used its Veto power to strike down 34 resolutions relating to Palestine and Israel. Resolutions that the entire rest of the world's countries supports. Resolutions that could've stopped or significantly reduced this ongoing bloodshed
    - whoknowsidont 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      White American Evangelicals are insane, they think it is their religious obligation to support Israel no matter what as a precondition for the resurrection of Jesus. White American Evangelicals are far more fanatical in their support of Israel than, for instance, American Jews. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-whit... https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-evangelicals-and-israel/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-eva... https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evangelicals-see-israel-hamas-war-as-part-of-a-prophecy/3d276994-7330-11ee-936d-7a16ee667359_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evan... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism
- deleted 3y ago
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- hbt 3y ago
  Israel is not allowing foreign / independent journalists in Gaza. From the foreign press: https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/middle-east-arab-world/article/ifjblog-gazas-journalists-prepare-for-an-onslaught https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/middle... If you are wondering why, here are the absurd reasons used: - lack of electricity / internet. No one heard of generators and starlink satellites? - Israel wants to prevent fake news and propaganda. This backfires as when a hospital gets bombed, we can't know who did it since there are no independent journalists on the ground. It sure doesn't help when your high officials brag about it on twitter. "Initial posts on X sent by Hananya Naftali, a digital aide to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, aroused suspicion. “Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas terrorist base inside a hospital in Gaza,” he wrote, but the post was almost immediately deleted." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-na... - Israel cannot guarantee the safety of journalists. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-journalists-safety-israel-military-1.7011083 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-journalists-safety-israel... Looks pretty bad when an IDF soldier shoots a journalist https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-israeli-forces-kill-al-jazeera-journalist https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-i... Of course, guaranteeing journalists safety doesn't seem to be an issue in conflicts like Ukraine. Israel is afraid of the international scrutiny and condemnation that would follow if the world saw the true extent of the suffering and devastation in Gaza So, better hide it.
_lvbh 3y ago
At this point, I think Gaza is pretty much doomed. There won’t be much left at the end of this special military operation.
- asylteltine 3y ago
  [dead]
- User23 3y ago
  There will be 25 miles of beautiful Mediterranean coastline for Israeli settlers. At least, that certainly has to have crossed the mind of someone in power.
  - r00fus 3y ago
    Israel has been expanding at the cost of Palestine for decades. This is just the last bit. Killing or displacing the 2.2M Palestinians is what it takes for Israel to finally complete their occupation.
    - petertodd 3y ago
      In the West Bank, yes. Not in Gaza, where Israel did the exactly opposite of expanding by deoccupying Gaza in 2005, even kicking out thousands of Israli Jews who were living there.
      - FireBeyond 3y ago
        When Israel "resettles" Jews in Gaza, they do it by giving them a home in Israel. When Israel "resettles" Palestinians in Gaza (interesting concept), they do it by bulldozing the homes they want them out of.
      - r00fus 3y ago
        Followed by continued settlements further reducing Gaza’s size.
      - megous 3y ago
scaredginger 3y ago
https://archive.md/eIXcA https://archive.md/eIXcA
bluish29 3y ago
Someday, people in the western countries will mourn the lives lost and wish they could help in time. Except this is the time. Not after the fact and a few remains. This is an occurring theme.
- zdragnar 3y ago
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  - bhouston 3y ago
    > Word on the street is Hamas is actively preventing people from evacuating. The majority of Palestinians from the north have evacuated to the south. So if they tried it was completely ineffective.
    - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
      What's Israel doing to the south? Oh, right, they're bombing it.
      - bhouston 3y ago
        They are but not the same extent. Not that this makes it better.
  - bluish29 3y ago
    Do you have evidence or this is just a literal word on street? By the way there is nowhere to escape the Isreali bombardment in gaza strip. And Palestinians don't want to leave their lands because they know they will never see it again. Hell most gazans are refugees from other parts in Palestine who had endured something like this before.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Evacuate to where? There's only two border crossings: to Egypt, which I believe is closed. And if Israel is letting Palestinians cross the border into Israel, that'd be news to me.
DudeOpotomus 3y ago
[flagged]
bawolff 3y ago
Dirupting enemy communications is a pretty standard goal of any army in a war. I'm more surprised it took this long.
- bluish29 3y ago
  Cutting communication with outside world is a standard step in genocide and committing war crimes too.
  - victorbjorklund 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - bluish29 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - hamster77 3y ago
        That wasn’t his point. You threw out an accusation of genocide and he refuted it.
      - fortran77 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - geertj 3y ago
        Ask yourself, if Hamas had the a-bomb, would they hesitate to use it?
        deleted 3y ago
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        deleted 3y ago
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    - shihab 3y ago
petertodd 3y ago
> Taking Gaza completely off the grid while launching an unprecedented bombardment campaign only means something atrocious is about to happen. A war is happening of course. Communications are critical to military operations, and Hamas has been happy to use civilian infrastructure for military purposes. Of course Israel is going to destroy it all. Sure, Hamas can still use older tech like radios. But that's a huge win for Israel's signal intelligence units: radios are much easier to intercept than internet connections, especially fiber.
- jowea 3y ago
  I've seen some speculation about the intelligence failure in not predicting the attack being related to Hamas avoiding the Internet for planning, and even deliberately sending false info on channels they knew were compromised.
  - petertodd 3y ago
    ...or Hamas just used modern encryption, which does work when implemented and used correctly. Merely using Signal consistently and correctly could very well be enough. There isn't an unlimited supply of over-the-air zero-day exploits.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      That would still give a lot of meta data to analyze.
    - BannedByKikes 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      Signal’s devs recommend that it be installed from the Play Store, and that is what the vast majority of people do. There has been heavy speculation that certain state actors are able to push a compromised Play Store update to users of interest. Moreover, the Signal board has been overhauled recently, Moxie left, and at least one new member has a US government background. It’s possible that the organization itself has been somehow compromised. (While Signal still offers an .apk for download from its website, the organization does not recommend it. Moreover, that APK comes with its own update functionality where the same risks may exist as with the Play Store.)
uoaei 3y ago
Watching mainstream news as well as tier-2 and -3 outlets perfect the passive voice has been validating for recognizing how status quo services specific political and ideological alignments despite assumptions of an ideal impartiality.
- stavros 3y ago
  > has been able to keep some of its services online during Israel’s military response to Hamas’s attack. Looks clear-cut whose fault it is, everything was just peachy for everyone until Hamas just decided to attack out of the blue.
  - nharada 3y ago
    > everything was just peachy ???
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Except of course for those who ended up living in Gaza without that being their choice.
    - stavros 3y ago
      I'm afraid the sarcasm didn't come across well. The article makes it sound like Israel was just peacefully minding its business when Hamas attacked, forcing it to retaliate, which we all know is not the case.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        You really should add a /s if you feel the need to be sarcastic on sensitive subjects such as these, and maybe better still to not do it at all because it just invites more sarcasm or even worse.
        stavros 3y ago
        It seems like it, from the responses. Thanks Jacques.
h2odragon 3y ago
Starlink still working?
- standardUser 3y ago
  Starlink isn't available in that region. If it was, it would of course depend on Elon Musk's mood at any given moment.
  - bhouston 3y ago
    Musk tends to favor the powerful who can help his other companies succeed. That is definitely not the Palestinians.
fortran77 3y ago
[flagged]
fortran77 3y ago
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- bluish29 3y ago
  Come on. Isreal have modern army which have the most advanced weapons and technologies with the fu support of the most powerful countries in the world. It is open secret that they have a medium sized nuclear arsenal. US sent troops and weapons everytime they are in war. They occupy the 1967 Palestinian borders except gaza, Golan from syria and some parts of Lebanon. They are fighting a bunch of people whatever they are are confined in an open prison. They have the most advanced air force in the region which until now dropped thousands of bombs daily on gaza. There is no danger from any arab country armed intervention. What survival are you talking about? Are you trying to play the victim of holocaust and use the historical suffering now?
  - culi 3y ago
    > US sent troops and weapons everytime they are in war Let's not pretend it's just occasional. The US sends $3.8 billion annually to Israel's military
fortran77 3y ago
[flagged]
culi 3y ago
Nearly all of the over 7k people killed in Gaza in the past few days are civilians. Sure Hamas, with the help of the media framing of this as a 9/11, gave them a good Casus belli, but Israel has always been good at finding Casus bellis. When Israel again invaded Gaza in 2014, they killed 2,310 people, 70% civilians and lost 67 soldiers in return. Even more destructive was the 7-10k homes completely demolished and 87k homes severely damaged. Since 2008 until before the recent invasion of Gaza, Israel has killed 6,407 Palestinians—mostly civilians—and lost only 308 Israelis in return.
- fortran77 3y ago
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  - defrost 3y ago
    Which is both deplorable and fails to justify the killing of innocents. I've dug bodies out of bombed buildings and am no fan of real life bloodied and burned bodies - whether the cause is Hamas, Israel, or an earthquake.
    - fortran77 3y ago
      Sometimes you have to seek a solution when someone commits an act of war, like murdering 1400 civilians--brutally--and taking over 200 people hostage. The goal is to make sure this never happens again.
      - defrost 3y ago
        Sure; Cause --> effect. > like murdering 1400 civilians--brutally--and taking over 200 people hostage. Was there any prior cause for this, or did this just happen "out of the blue" with no prior provacation and no warning from various citizens of Israel that such an event was inevitable if the state continued down certain paths of action?
  - omnimus 3y ago
    Somebody is confusing Hamas with Palestinian civilians.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
Sounds to me like they destroyed the wrong tunnels.
solarpunk 3y ago
how does Israel give evacuation warnings if Palestinian telcos are offline?
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  2 weeks ago...
  - solarpunk 3y ago
    can you elaborate?
    - orionsbelt 3y ago
      Israel has given repeated warnings for the north of Gaza to evacuate south for the past two weeks while Gaza has had internet. In addition, they have dropped leaflets all over the are stating the same thing.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        The only real problem is that there isn't anything to evacuate to and whatever they leave behind they'll lose forever.
        onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
        "Israel didn't warn them." "Okay, they did, but it doesn't matter." Got it.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        I don't think I can follow your reasoning.
        tyre 3y ago
        and bombing the roads and executing strikes on the fleeing civilians
speransky 3y ago
[flagged]
brucethemoose2 3y ago
History suggests expunging determined, fortified, modern militants embedded in a civilian population never goes well. The expunger loses or gets a pyrrhic victory, even with a huge economic advantage. Honestly, however dire the need, I don't see what Israel is thinking. If Israel, the US, Europe, China and Russia all held hands and invaded the Gaza strip together, they still probably couldn't route out Hamas.
- jacknews 3y ago
  Exactly, and in fact they will just create more radicals, and push the existing ones to even more barbaric extremes. I'm starting to feel radical myself, and I have no connection at all to events, other than being able to spot a bully obviously about to carry out systematic barbarism in retribution.
  - orionsbelt 3y ago
    Was the U.S. entering WW2 after Pearl Harbor just systematic barbarism in retribution?
    - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
      Honest question — how else would you describe dropping a nuclear bomb each on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, cities full of civilians, causing "between 129,000 and 226,000" deaths (source: Wikipedia)? Those were not military targets.
      - defrost 3y ago
        Honest contextual answer: .. a rush job to test two different designs for a new weapon, snuck in before the very same cities were destroyed much more cheaply with conventional heavy explosives and incideriaries, just as 72 Japanese cities had already been destroyed. That answer because you asked about the nuclear bombs rather than the total destruction of complete cities in the European and Japanese theatres. You can compare the death toll from the Tokyo firebombings to that in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki, you can look up the names of the other 71 cities destroyed and you can find the full list of planned targets (now long forgotten save for H & N) in the archives.
ChumpGPT 3y ago
I wonder what is the tipping point for the Arab world. What is the magic number, 10k,20k,100k dead. Does it get to a point where Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon even Jordan, SA, etc start to say enough is enough. This could turn into a pretty big war, dragging in all kinds of countries. If they end up destroying all of Gaza and killing 50k and no one does anything then the Palestinians should understand they have been abandon by the Arab world and have no future. Interesting times...
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Unfortunately it could get even worse than that.
- raindear 3y ago
  There are around 40k Hamas gunmen. So the reported numbers can get that high.
- hackerlight 3y ago
  > Does it get to a point where Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon even Jordan, SA, etc start to say enough is enough. They'll do nothing -- because they can't -- and then get overthrown by hardline Islamists. West Bank, Jordan, Egypt, who knows. They'll then become yet another security risk for Israel instead of a potential ally. One of the many possible unintended consequences of an invasion that Israel is failing to consider in its post-9/11-esque emotional fervor.
teleforce 3y ago
Guess which building first demolished to the ground by Israel military in Gaza at the beginning of the conflict? No price of getting the right answer, it's the Watan Tower building that hosted most of Gaza Internet Sevice Provider (ISP) companies Paltel and Jawwal and their infrastructure. It was also a hub for several international media outlets, including the Associated Press and Al Jazeera [1],[2],[3]. We are somewhow supposed to believe by Israel propaganda that the demolition of the Watan building is necessary to cripple the resistance but in war truth is always the first casualty that further leads to countless human casualties. [1] Israels warns Palestinians on Facebook but Israel bombing decimated Gaza Internet Access: https://theintercept.com/2023/10/12/israel-gaza-internet-access/ https://theintercept.com/2023/10/12/israel-gaza-internet-acc... [2] #KeepItOn: Telecommunications Blackout In The Gaza Strip Is An Attack On Human Rights: https://m.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO2310/S00117/keepiton-telecommunications-blackout-in-the-gaza-strip-is-an-attack-on-human-rights.htm https://m.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO2310/S00117/keepiton-telecom... [3] Destruction of Watan Tower: A Blow to Press Freedom or a Military Necessity? https://bnn.network/world/palestine/destruction-of-watan-tower-a-blow-to-press-freedom-or-a-military-necessity/ https://bnn.network/world/palestine/destruction-of-watan-tow...
- invalidname 3y ago
  It also included offices for the Hamas and was a symbol of its power. That was the main motivation for removing it.
  - bluish29 3y ago
    Any solid evidence?
    - invalidname 3y ago
      Only what Israeli press published at the time. I doubt they would pick that as their first major target if it didn't have some connection to the Hamas.
      - 3y ago
raindear 3y ago
The article sympathizes with only with one side of a horrible war, and only about losing its internet connection. It's surrealistic. It's like reading an article about Berlin citizens losing telephone connection in May 1945.
- megous 3y ago
  The article is about the damage to an internet/mobile operator infrastructure. If there's any comparable damage to internet/mobile infrastructure of Israel, feel free to share, otherwise I don't see your point. I haven't seen any comparable damage on the Israel side to be sympathetic about. Not sure if you realize how destructive, and dangerous to regular people complete prolonged blackout of all communication is. People give briths, have hart attacks, strokes, get injured, need to organize aid delivery so not to starve, disabled people need contact with people that can help them, thousands of people daily call for medical help for general health issues, psychological issues,... Disabling the entire communication infrastructure is absolutely disastrous. Many people died because of this.
heyheyhouhou 3y ago
[flagged]
- snird 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - heyheyhouhou 3y ago
    It's important to understand the context, this did not started this month, it started 70~ years ago by strangling people in a confined space. Also it's important to separate Hamas than Palestinian civilians. They did not have any democratic chance to elect what they have. Why do they pay for it? What Israel is doing is not smart and is going to create an endless conflict. Hate creates more hate.
    - snird 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - hypefi 3y ago
    No sign of raped teenage girls and burned babies alive, what is sure is that everyday there are babies killed in Gaza by Israel and US bombs
    - snird 3y ago
      [flagged]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rinka_singh 3y ago
The feeling I get from the article AND some of the comments here is that the Palestinians / Hamas did nothing but to sit and wait for Israel to invade & bomb Gaza to dust. It is completely Israel's fault... Wondering why they didn't go into Gaza before Oct 7th... This is also called playing the victim...

141 points by sharno 3y ago

[dead]

Hopefully news crews brought their satellite broadcasting equipment. It's important for the world not be blocked off from seeing what's going on regardless of which side you support.

deleted 3y ago
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bhouston 3y ago
After the horrendous Hamas attacks of October 7 a portion of the Israeli public sort of lost it and have outright called for retribution. I worry that this indiscriminate bombing campaign combined with a near complete blockade of food, electricity, water of the last two weeks is reflective of that. Now with a lack of communication, I worry about Palestinians. You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredients for something really bad are all here.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > You can never be sure what will happen, but the ingredients for something really bad are all here. Something really bad has been happening there for the last decades, but it's so messed up and mixed up in past mistakes, revenge and religion that there is no more ability to reason with either side. What really galls me is that we were so close to finally solving this and then Rabin was murdered (by his own side, go figure) and it all went to pieces.
  - edanm 3y ago
    > and then Rabin was murdered (by his own side, go figure) I don't think you can really call the lunatic who killed Rabin (or worse, the lunatics that urged him on and enabled him) part of Rabin's side.
- culi 3y ago
  > have outright called for retribution When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014 they killed 2,310 people. 70% were civilians. In return they lost only 67 soldiers. They also destroyed 7-10k homes and damaged 87k other homes. Between 2005-2008, 1,754 Palestinians and 117 Israelis have lost their lives due to the ongoing occupation. Between 2008-2023 2,329 more Palestinians and 308 more Israeli people lost their lives. The vast majority of Israeli casualties are soldiers and the vast majority of Palestinian casualties are civilian. Now in the span of just a few days Israel has killed over 7k more Palestinians. This isn't "retribution". This is an ongoing genocide. One which the UN has tried to intercede OVER and OVER and OVER again but always fails. Despite almost every single country in the UN voting on the side of Palestine there is one country that ensures Israel is never held accountable for its war crimes: the United States. Between 1954 and 2023 the US has used its Veto power to strike down 34 resolutions relating to Palestine and Israel. Resolutions that the entire rest of the world's countries supports. Resolutions that could've stopped or significantly reduced this ongoing bloodshed
  - whoknowsidont 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    White American Evangelicals are insane, they think it is their religious obligation to support Israel no matter what as a precondition for the resurrection of Jesus. White American Evangelicals are far more fanatical in their support of Israel than, for instance, American Jews. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-whit... https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-evangelicals-and-israel/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2005/04/15/american-eva... https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evangelicals-see-israel-hamas-war-as-part-of-a-prophecy/3d276994-7330-11ee-936d-7a16ee667359_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/25/many-evan... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism
deleted 3y ago
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hbt 3y ago
Israel is not allowing foreign / independent journalists in Gaza. From the foreign press: https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/middle-east-arab-world/article/ifjblog-gazas-journalists-prepare-for-an-onslaught https://www.ifj.org/media-centre/news/detail/category/middle... If you are wondering why, here are the absurd reasons used: - lack of electricity / internet. No one heard of generators and starlink satellites? - Israel wants to prevent fake news and propaganda. This backfires as when a hospital gets bombed, we can't know who did it since there are no independent journalists on the ground. It sure doesn't help when your high officials brag about it on twitter. "Initial posts on X sent by Hananya Naftali, a digital aide to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, aroused suspicion. “Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas terrorist base inside a hospital in Gaza,” he wrote, but the post was almost immediately deleted." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-na... - Israel cannot guarantee the safety of journalists. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-journalists-safety-israel-military-1.7011083 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-journalists-safety-israel... Looks pretty bad when an IDF soldier shoots a journalist https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-israeli-forces-kill-al-jazeera-journalist https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-i... Of course, guaranteeing journalists safety doesn't seem to be an issue in conflicts like Ukraine. Israel is afraid of the international scrutiny and condemnation that would follow if the world saw the true extent of the suffering and devastation in Gaza So, better hide it.

_lvbh 3y ago

At this point, I think Gaza is pretty much doomed. There won’t be much left at the end of this special military operation.

asylteltine 3y ago
[dead]
User23 3y ago
There will be 25 miles of beautiful Mediterranean coastline for Israeli settlers. At least, that certainly has to have crossed the mind of someone in power.
- r00fus 3y ago
  Israel has been expanding at the cost of Palestine for decades. This is just the last bit. Killing or displacing the 2.2M Palestinians is what it takes for Israel to finally complete their occupation.
  - petertodd 3y ago
    In the West Bank, yes. Not in Gaza, where Israel did the exactly opposite of expanding by deoccupying Gaza in 2005, even kicking out thousands of Israli Jews who were living there.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      When Israel "resettles" Jews in Gaza, they do it by giving them a home in Israel. When Israel "resettles" Palestinians in Gaza (interesting concept), they do it by bulldozing the homes they want them out of.
    - r00fus 3y ago
      Followed by continued settlements further reducing Gaza’s size.
    - megous 3y ago

scaredginger 3y ago

https://archive.md/eIXcA https://archive.md/eIXcA

bluish29 3y ago

Someday, people in the western countries will mourn the lives lost and wish they could help in time. Except this is the time. Not after the fact and a few remains. This is an occurring theme.

zdragnar 3y ago
[flagged]
- bhouston 3y ago
  > Word on the street is Hamas is actively preventing people from evacuating. The majority of Palestinians from the north have evacuated to the south. So if they tried it was completely ineffective.
  - MisterBastahrd 3y ago
    What's Israel doing to the south? Oh, right, they're bombing it.
    - bhouston 3y ago
      They are but not the same extent. Not that this makes it better.
- bluish29 3y ago
  Do you have evidence or this is just a literal word on street? By the way there is nowhere to escape the Isreali bombardment in gaza strip. And Palestinians don't want to leave their lands because they know they will never see it again. Hell most gazans are refugees from other parts in Palestine who had endured something like this before.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Evacuate to where? There's only two border crossings: to Egypt, which I believe is closed. And if Israel is letting Palestinians cross the border into Israel, that'd be news to me.

DudeOpotomus 3y ago

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bawolff 3y ago

Dirupting enemy communications is a pretty standard goal of any army in a war. I'm more surprised it took this long.

bluish29 3y ago
Cutting communication with outside world is a standard step in genocide and committing war crimes too.
- victorbjorklund 3y ago
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  - bluish29 3y ago
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    - hamster77 3y ago
      That wasn’t his point. You threw out an accusation of genocide and he refuted it.
    - fortran77 3y ago
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    - geertj 3y ago
      Ask yourself, if Hamas had the a-bomb, would they hesitate to use it?
      - deleted 3y ago
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      - deleted 3y ago
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  - shihab 3y ago

petertodd 3y ago

> Taking Gaza completely off the grid while launching an unprecedented bombardment campaign only means something atrocious is about to happen. A war is happening of course. Communications are critical to military operations, and Hamas has been happy to use civilian infrastructure for military purposes. Of course Israel is going to destroy it all. Sure, Hamas can still use older tech like radios. But that's a huge win for Israel's signal intelligence units: radios are much easier to intercept than internet connections, especially fiber.

jowea 3y ago
I've seen some speculation about the intelligence failure in not predicting the attack being related to Hamas avoiding the Internet for planning, and even deliberately sending false info on channels they knew were compromised.
- petertodd 3y ago
  ...or Hamas just used modern encryption, which does work when implemented and used correctly. Merely using Signal consistently and correctly could very well be enough. There isn't an unlimited supply of over-the-air zero-day exploits.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    That would still give a lot of meta data to analyze.
  - BannedByKikes 3y ago
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  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    Signal’s devs recommend that it be installed from the Play Store, and that is what the vast majority of people do. There has been heavy speculation that certain state actors are able to push a compromised Play Store update to users of interest. Moreover, the Signal board has been overhauled recently, Moxie left, and at least one new member has a US government background. It’s possible that the organization itself has been somehow compromised. (While Signal still offers an .apk for download from its website, the organization does not recommend it. Moreover, that APK comes with its own update functionality where the same risks may exist as with the Play Store.)

uoaei 3y ago

Watching mainstream news as well as tier-2 and -3 outlets perfect the passive voice has been validating for recognizing how status quo services specific political and ideological alignments despite assumptions of an ideal impartiality.

stavros 3y ago
> has been able to keep some of its services online during Israel’s military response to Hamas’s attack. Looks clear-cut whose fault it is, everything was just peachy for everyone until Hamas just decided to attack out of the blue.
- nharada 3y ago
  > everything was just peachy ???
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Except of course for those who ended up living in Gaza without that being their choice.
  - stavros 3y ago
    I'm afraid the sarcasm didn't come across well. The article makes it sound like Israel was just peacefully minding its business when Hamas attacked, forcing it to retaliate, which we all know is not the case.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      You really should add a /s if you feel the need to be sarcastic on sensitive subjects such as these, and maybe better still to not do it at all because it just invites more sarcasm or even worse.
      - stavros 3y ago
        It seems like it, from the responses. Thanks Jacques.

h2odragon 3y ago

Starlink still working?

standardUser 3y ago
Starlink isn't available in that region. If it was, it would of course depend on Elon Musk's mood at any given moment.
- bhouston 3y ago
  Musk tends to favor the powerful who can help his other companies succeed. That is definitely not the Palestinians.

fortran77 3y ago

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fortran77 3y ago

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bluish29 3y ago
Come on. Isreal have modern army which have the most advanced weapons and technologies with the fu support of the most powerful countries in the world. It is open secret that they have a medium sized nuclear arsenal. US sent troops and weapons everytime they are in war. They occupy the 1967 Palestinian borders except gaza, Golan from syria and some parts of Lebanon. They are fighting a bunch of people whatever they are are confined in an open prison. They have the most advanced air force in the region which until now dropped thousands of bombs daily on gaza. There is no danger from any arab country armed intervention. What survival are you talking about? Are you trying to play the victim of holocaust and use the historical suffering now?
- culi 3y ago
  > US sent troops and weapons everytime they are in war Let's not pretend it's just occasional. The US sends $3.8 billion annually to Israel's military

fortran77 3y ago

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culi 3y ago

Nearly all of the over 7k people killed in Gaza in the past few days are civilians. Sure Hamas, with the help of the media framing of this as a 9/11, gave them a good Casus belli, but Israel has always been good at finding Casus bellis. When Israel again invaded Gaza in 2014, they killed 2,310 people, 70% civilians and lost 67 soldiers in return. Even more destructive was the 7-10k homes completely demolished and 87k homes severely damaged. Since 2008 until before the recent invasion of Gaza, Israel has killed 6,407 Palestinians—mostly civilians—and lost only 308 Israelis in return.

fortran77 3y ago
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- defrost 3y ago
  Which is both deplorable and fails to justify the killing of innocents. I've dug bodies out of bombed buildings and am no fan of real life bloodied and burned bodies - whether the cause is Hamas, Israel, or an earthquake.
  - fortran77 3y ago
    Sometimes you have to seek a solution when someone commits an act of war, like murdering 1400 civilians--brutally--and taking over 200 people hostage. The goal is to make sure this never happens again.
    - defrost 3y ago
      Sure; Cause --> effect. > like murdering 1400 civilians--brutally--and taking over 200 people hostage. Was there any prior cause for this, or did this just happen "out of the blue" with no prior provacation and no warning from various citizens of Israel that such an event was inevitable if the state continued down certain paths of action?
- omnimus 3y ago
  Somebody is confusing Hamas with Palestinian civilians.

TacticalCoder 3y ago

Sounds to me like they destroyed the wrong tunnels.

solarpunk 3y ago

how does Israel give evacuation warnings if Palestinian telcos are offline?

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
2 weeks ago...
- solarpunk 3y ago
  can you elaborate?
  - orionsbelt 3y ago
    Israel has given repeated warnings for the north of Gaza to evacuate south for the past two weeks while Gaza has had internet. In addition, they have dropped leaflets all over the are stating the same thing.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      The only real problem is that there isn't anything to evacuate to and whatever they leave behind they'll lose forever.
      - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
        "Israel didn't warn them." "Okay, they did, but it doesn't matter." Got it.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        I don't think I can follow your reasoning.
      - tyre 3y ago
        and bombing the roads and executing strikes on the fleeing civilians

speransky 3y ago

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brucethemoose2 3y ago

History suggests expunging determined, fortified, modern militants embedded in a civilian population never goes well. The expunger loses or gets a pyrrhic victory, even with a huge economic advantage. Honestly, however dire the need, I don't see what Israel is thinking. If Israel, the US, Europe, China and Russia all held hands and invaded the Gaza strip together, they still probably couldn't route out Hamas.

jacknews 3y ago
Exactly, and in fact they will just create more radicals, and push the existing ones to even more barbaric extremes. I'm starting to feel radical myself, and I have no connection at all to events, other than being able to spot a bully obviously about to carry out systematic barbarism in retribution.
- orionsbelt 3y ago
  Was the U.S. entering WW2 after Pearl Harbor just systematic barbarism in retribution?
  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
    Honest question — how else would you describe dropping a nuclear bomb each on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, cities full of civilians, causing "between 129,000 and 226,000" deaths (source: Wikipedia)? Those were not military targets.
    - defrost 3y ago
      Honest contextual answer: .. a rush job to test two different designs for a new weapon, snuck in before the very same cities were destroyed much more cheaply with conventional heavy explosives and incideriaries, just as 72 Japanese cities had already been destroyed. That answer because you asked about the nuclear bombs rather than the total destruction of complete cities in the European and Japanese theatres. You can compare the death toll from the Tokyo firebombings to that in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki, you can look up the names of the other 71 cities destroyed and you can find the full list of planned targets (now long forgotten save for H & N) in the archives.

ChumpGPT 3y ago

I wonder what is the tipping point for the Arab world. What is the magic number, 10k,20k,100k dead. Does it get to a point where Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon even Jordan, SA, etc start to say enough is enough. This could turn into a pretty big war, dragging in all kinds of countries. If they end up destroying all of Gaza and killing 50k and no one does anything then the Palestinians should understand they have been abandon by the Arab world and have no future. Interesting times...

jacquesm 3y ago
Unfortunately it could get even worse than that.
raindear 3y ago
There are around 40k Hamas gunmen. So the reported numbers can get that high.
hackerlight 3y ago
> Does it get to a point where Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon even Jordan, SA, etc start to say enough is enough. They'll do nothing -- because they can't -- and then get overthrown by hardline Islamists. West Bank, Jordan, Egypt, who knows. They'll then become yet another security risk for Israel instead of a potential ally. One of the many possible unintended consequences of an invasion that Israel is failing to consider in its post-9/11-esque emotional fervor.

teleforce 3y ago

Guess which building first demolished to the ground by Israel military in Gaza at the beginning of the conflict? No price of getting the right answer, it's the Watan Tower building that hosted most of Gaza Internet Sevice Provider (ISP) companies Paltel and Jawwal and their infrastructure. It was also a hub for several international media outlets, including the Associated Press and Al Jazeera [1],[2],[3]. We are somewhow supposed to believe by Israel propaganda that the demolition of the Watan building is necessary to cripple the resistance but in war truth is always the first casualty that further leads to countless human casualties. [1] Israels warns Palestinians on Facebook but Israel bombing decimated Gaza Internet Access: https://theintercept.com/2023/10/12/israel-gaza-internet-access/ https://theintercept.com/2023/10/12/israel-gaza-internet-acc... [2] #KeepItOn: Telecommunications Blackout In The Gaza Strip Is An Attack On Human Rights: https://m.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO2310/S00117/keepiton-telecommunications-blackout-in-the-gaza-strip-is-an-attack-on-human-rights.htm https://m.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO2310/S00117/keepiton-telecom... [3] Destruction of Watan Tower: A Blow to Press Freedom or a Military Necessity? https://bnn.network/world/palestine/destruction-of-watan-tower-a-blow-to-press-freedom-or-a-military-necessity/ https://bnn.network/world/palestine/destruction-of-watan-tow...

invalidname 3y ago
It also included offices for the Hamas and was a symbol of its power. That was the main motivation for removing it.
- bluish29 3y ago
  Any solid evidence?
  - invalidname 3y ago
    Only what Israeli press published at the time. I doubt they would pick that as their first major target if it didn't have some connection to the Hamas.
    - 3y ago

raindear 3y ago

The article sympathizes with only with one side of a horrible war, and only about losing its internet connection. It's surrealistic. It's like reading an article about Berlin citizens losing telephone connection in May 1945.

megous 3y ago
The article is about the damage to an internet/mobile operator infrastructure. If there's any comparable damage to internet/mobile infrastructure of Israel, feel free to share, otherwise I don't see your point. I haven't seen any comparable damage on the Israel side to be sympathetic about. Not sure if you realize how destructive, and dangerous to regular people complete prolonged blackout of all communication is. People give briths, have hart attacks, strokes, get injured, need to organize aid delivery so not to starve, disabled people need contact with people that can help them, thousands of people daily call for medical help for general health issues, psychological issues,... Disabling the entire communication infrastructure is absolutely disastrous. Many people died because of this.

heyheyhouhou 3y ago

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snird 3y ago
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- heyheyhouhou 3y ago
  It's important to understand the context, this did not started this month, it started 70~ years ago by strangling people in a confined space. Also it's important to separate Hamas than Palestinian civilians. They did not have any democratic chance to elect what they have. Why do they pay for it? What Israel is doing is not smart and is going to create an endless conflict. Hate creates more hate.
  - snird 3y ago
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- hypefi 3y ago
  No sign of raped teenage girls and burned babies alive, what is sure is that everyday there are babies killed in Gaza by Israel and US bombs
  - snird 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago

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rinka_singh 3y ago

The feeling I get from the article AND some of the comments here is that the Palestinians / Hamas did nothing but to sit and wait for Israel to invade & bomb Gaza to dust. It is completely Israel's fault... Wondering why they didn't go into Gaza before Oct 7th... This is also called playing the victim...