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Tesla threatens to bring in strikebreakers as Swedish workers strike
- knurra 3y agoUPS, FedEx, McDonald and Toys R Us already tried to make up their own rules. They've all ended up singing the agreement. Tesla will see that the demands are sound and reasonable. Tesla will comply or leave. Simple as that
- magback 3y ago[flagged]
- magback 3y agoAs a Swede, perhaps I can shed some light on the "Tesla situation". Tesla is not breaking the law when they don't sign a collective agreement with IF Metall. Tesla would not break any laws if they brought in workers from other countries, as long as those workers are able to get work visas or are from countries within the EU. They WOULD be breaking the law if they tried to fire employees for going on strike, so they would end up paying double salary. However, Tesla's real problem is not the law. It is the solidarity between unions in Sweden. Once the IF Metall strike gets going, other unions will join in. Tesla's business would grind to a halt in days and people who own a Tesla would not be able to get their cars serviced anywhere. All this is a given, since there is absolutely no chance that the Swedish unions will back down. A number of years ago, Toys'r'us tried the same thing. They were brought to their knees in about a week, if memory serves. They ended up signing the agreement, despite the fact that they had also said that "they never signed agreements with the unions". They had apparently not done their homework when it comes to "the Swedish model". Their stance was simply impossible, as is Tesla's. There are two things I don't understand: 1. What does Tesla think will happen? Do they really think that they can do business in Sweden without getting along with the unions? 2. Why are they so negative towards unions? The Swedish model is built on a century of cooperation between employers and unions and it is working very well. I have myself been on the employer side many times when speaking to unions, and by far the most common situation is that we have good and productive discussions, where both parties are focused on helping the company to succeed. There are of cours exceptions, but they are not very common.
- ncr100 3y agoThank you for this fascinating insight into labor organizations in Sweden. Observations: The things that stand out to me are that Tesla owners would potentially not be able to have their car serviced, and the overall unity of seemingly unrelated unions in organizing. Also coming from an American perspective I muse about how America would be if we had a similarly strong human-centered organized labor. It sounds nice to me. Q hassle for corporations but making money can be arbitrarily complicated!
- repelsteeltje 3y agoYet another scar on Tesla's public image. For context I'm alluding to recent reports of extremely high injury rates in Tesla's German factories, rumours about Chinese factory conditions. [Cynical] Might be beneficial to outsource the this type of dirty work to subsidiaries or subcontractors, the way Apple offloads to Foxcon?
- maxehmookau 3y agoThis kind of nonsense doesn't play well in Europe. Nor should it. > The company is refusing to sign one, IF Metall has reported, saying that company claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world. Welcome to Europe, Elon.
- johnchristopher 3y agoI am not following Tesla things but don't they have factories in Germany and didn't they face the same problem ?
- masklinn 3y agoHave the German unions forced the issue yet?
- Arnt 3y agoThe situation is a little different. IIRC Tesla's trying to hire on the cheap here in Germany, and not succeeding very well, and is in... a... let's say a discussion process with the Man about the number of accidents in a Tesla factory. Such discussions with the Man tend to be quiet, polite and slow at first, but the Man will eventually lose patience. I saw a photo in the newspaper of someone who couldn't discuss his tax issues due to health issues; the photo showed him being wheeled into court in his hospital bed.
- hnbad 3y agoTesla tried to keep unions out but apparently IG Metall (the largest and politically most powerful industrial trade union in Germany) announced earlier this month that more than a thousand workers at the Gigafactory Berlin-Brandenburg joined the union: https://www.igmetall.de/im-betrieb/ig-metall-organisiert-tesla-beschaeftigte https://www.igmetall.de/im-betrieb/ig-metall-organisiert-tes... According to the union's statement, a third of all workers is on sick leave at any given time due to workplace injuries. They're also paid below union rate despite claims to the contrary by Tesla management. Tesla also tried to preempt a union recruiting event by giving the workers free pea soup so they'd stay in throughout the lunch break and not talk to the union reps waiting outside the factory. To me it sounds like the union just got its foot in the door at Tesla Germany and we're not at the point yet where organized action like a strike is feasible. It's worth mentioning that German employment law prohibits a company from hiring temp workers to take over the job of a striking employee, at the threat of a fine of up to €500k. On the other hand, there are strict laws around strikes for workers too, e.g. solidarity strikes are prohibited.
- anttisalmela 3y agoEmpty threats, Nordic unions would just block all the imports.
- livrem 3y agoYes. The Swedish Transport Union just now declared that workers will stop unloading Tesla cars in the harbors starting noon November 7, if Tesla has not yet signed the collective agreement. Other unions are expected to follow with similar announcements. Source in Swedish: https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/transport-hotar-att-stoppa-tesla-import/ https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/transport-hotar-att-stoppa-tesla-i...
- StevenWaterman 3y agoFrom a previous discussion: https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2021/09/21/when-mcdonalds-came-to-denmark/ https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2021/09/21/when-mcdonal...
- DoreenMichele 3y agoOnce the sympathy strikes got going, McDonalds folded pretty quickly and decided to start following the hotel and restaurant agreement in 1989. Thank you for posting this.
- bitshiftfaced 3y agoI think this case could be a bit different. You can easily go to another restaurant if you have a grudge against McDonald's. It's not so simple if you already own an expensive Tesla that you need serviced and repaired.
- DoreenMichele 3y agoMaybe. Maybe not. Europe has better public transportation than the US.
- TraspSE 3y agoSympathy strikes is not the same thing as boycotts. "Sixteen different sector unions participated in the sympathy strikes. Dockworkers refused to [...]. Printers refused [...]. Truckers [...]. Typographers [...]. Food and beverage workers [...]" And the list goes on... How would anyone be able to repair that Tesla?
- will5421 3y ago“Truckers refused to deliver food and beer to McDonalds.“ Beer?
- prmoustache 3y agoAs a european, I didn't knew this was not a thing at McDonalds. I have always seen beer served there and I don't know why it should be exempt from serving it.
- VeejayRampay 3y agoelon is furious that european workers demand to work in a safe environment because this is not how fortunes are built (they're built the old fashion way, with broken limbs and lead poisoning)
- bitshiftfaced 3y agoAre the terms in question known?
- Cthulhu_ 3y agoExcept that it is how fortunes are built, it's just a few percent point (possibly, at most) lower than it could potentially be.
- maxerickson 3y agoModern production workers have a lot of training, losing planned hours to injuries isn't profitable.
- unmole 3y agoHow are Swedish Tesla employees unsafe? Does Sweden not have safety regulations? Are Swedish authorities failing to enforce them?
- rini17 3y agoIsn't voluntary agreement between employer and employees better than regulations? They should be last resort, and they can't catch everything, such as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38028660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38028660
- unmole 3y ago> Isn't voluntary agreement between employer and employees better than regulations? This this case the employee isn't volunteering. > such as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38028660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38028660 They can't catch social media surveys?
- 45634e36 3y ago[flagged]
- Cthulhu_ 3y agoSabotage would be self-sabotage + criminal investigation. Also, "the beatings will continue until morale improves" is a common tongue-in-cheek saying; morale will improve if working conditions do, not by removing people until whoever is left just sucks it up.
- slaw 3y agoBring it on. Let's union workers compete with non union workers.
- Cthulhu_ 3y agoAlternatively, let's just pay people a living wage and offer them safe working conditions. Unions are not the problem here, it's the working conditions. Unions form as a reaction to working conditions / terms. If there wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be a union.
- unmole 3y agoIs the Swedish economy not doing well? Why can't the workers switch to companies that offer better working conditions?
- RandomLensman 3y agoWhy are societies not allowed to chose certain models how to deal with some economic or employment situations? Why would only capital be allowed to pool but not workers?
- unmole 3y agoIs a competing model not allowed in that society? Why can't individuals make decisions for themselves?
- RandomLensman 3y agoThey can and they do - who says otherwise? If a model is very pervasive this also is expressed in people moving to other countries, which in the EU isn't that difficult (and conversely, there are also people moving the other way. A bit like a market for societal models). So really, individuals do make decisions and act on them on many levels.
- 3y ago
- tibbydudeza 3y agoElon acting like a true South African born in the 80's. Niemand gaan my fokken vertel nie :). Die Blerrie Commies. Translation - Nobody is going to tell me how to do things. Esp Bloody Socialists.
- waihtis 3y agoHe is the richest man in the world with many excellent companies. Seems to be working well for him.
- stuaxo 3y agoThis works if you read it in Trumps voice.
- tibbydudeza 3y agoHe is still an idiot - he did not start Tesla btw :).
- ben_w 3y ago> he did not start Tesla While true, this meme feels almost as petty as Musk himself: Tesla had barely shipped its first car when Musk took over. Founded July 1, 2003, the Roadster was officially revealed to the public on July 19, 2006; Eberhard was asked to step down as CEO in August 2007; Tesla had still only delivered 147 cars by January 2009.
- waihtis 3y agofacts have no place in the "rocket man bad"-crowd
- vasdae 3y agoSocialists are a scourge. Source: I'm Spanish.
- tibbydudeza 3y ago
- mattgrice 3y agoIt's understandable that swedish language sources don't know this, but the English word for 'strikebreakers' is 'scabs.'
- boredpudding 3y agoBoth are fine, and it's clear the majority of the audience wouldn't understand if the title said 'bring in scabs'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker
- yaseer 3y agoScabs is quite pejorative though, I had always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that it's usual usage is to insult.
- rsynnott 3y agoI mean, _so is strikebreakers_.
- mytailorisrich 3y agoIn the UK a 'scab' is usually a pejorative term for someone who does not strike, which is not the same as a strikebreaker.
- ghusto 3y agoI thought strikereaker meant someone who isn't striking, or who was but has now changed their minds?
- mytailorisrich 3y agoA strikebreaker is usually someone external hired specifically to replace a striking worker. That's why this may or may not be restricted by law. Very often a 'scab' (which, again, is an insult) is simply an existing worker who's decided not to srike and who constinues to work as usual. Though the term may also refer to a strikebreaker. Anyway, it's similar.
- RandomLensman 3y agoIn a way, it is always the companies which benefit(ed) most from state support that are the fiercest enemies of other "socialists inclinations".
- markjonsona989 3y agoI have to say I don't understand Elon's (Tesla's) reaction here. Surely he was advised on Swedish and EU laws and how things work over here before he decided to do business in Sweden?
- bigtex 3y agoLaws haven't stopped him before, so why would he stop now?
- rsynnott 3y agoI'm not sure he's that into advice, especially that which doesn't come from weird sycophants. See, well, absolutely everything relating to Twitter.
- hef19898 3y agoMaybe, but why do you think he would care?
- DoreenMichele 3y agoI take it you missed the part where he shot his mouth off in public about buying Twitter and then got dragged into court and forced to actually buy it.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoIm not sure what you are saying. Strikebreakers are not illegal in EU. They aren't anywhere AFAIK, unions workers just dont like scabs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker#Europe
- markjonsona989 3y agoThat's why I also said "the way things work here" because it's a cultural thing; you just don't mess with worker's right in Europe. It might not be against the law, but it's not a normal practise. From what I found online last time this happened in Sweden was in 1920s. I'm not from Sweden but I am European and I know that unions and strikes are a normal thing and everybody supports them. If Elon tries to forcefully break up a strike, he will just amass the wrath of other unions and the entire Swedish population turning an issue of collective agreement into a political problem. I honestly don't see this ending well for Tesla.
- 45634e36 3y ago[flagged]
- erikstarck 3y agoI suppose Swedish Tesla workers have the same beneficial stock buying agreement that other countries have. No more of that if they are unionized.
- dathos 3y agoI’m not sure if you find that a bad trade, in my opinion having a proper work environment beats buying stock at a good price
- livrem 3y agoMaybe. That has not been the case for the big American companies I have worked for here in Sweden. We always got the same benefits, including stock options etc, as everyone else in the companies. Not sure what the unions would say if a company tried to punish workers for being unionized, but I suspect they would not be happy about it, and there may very well be something in the collective agreement they want signed that already covers this.
- hef19898 3y agoAh, even the unionized Amazon workers in Europe get RSUs. To cite Ellen Ripley: I don't know which species is worse, but I'm sure they wont let themselves get killed forba percentage". And not everyone, especially outside the US, is willing to do so neither.
- 45634e36 3y ago[flagged]
- hef19898 3y agoOrganizing a labor union is not work? Fascinating opinion.
- ghusto 3y ago> company claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world LoL, yeah good luck with that. From my experiences working for American companies, this is typical behaviour where an American company doesn't (yet) realise the things that got them ahead in the U.S.A. won't necessarily work — or even be legal or accepted — in Europe. They'll learn ;)
- jeo123 3y agoElon Musk famous for sacking entire department or even close down factory PERMANENTLY. Europeans will find out their current unemployment will be doubling in coming months with no money to pay for American expensive oil and gas replacement to Russian. Swede will learn they arent that special and even influential. Their train schedules really under perform if you ever experienced the Japanese one.
- ghusto 3y agoAs was the sentiment when Facebook said they'd pull out of Europe if forced to abide by the laws: Don't threaten us with a good time :D
- rsynnott 3y agoYou're suggesting that Naughty Old Mr Car flouncing out of Sweden in a huff would double Europe's unemployment? How's that work?
- Moru 3y agoWell, those 130 people is a really big thing. Another company in Sweden just got a strike on their hand. That company has 2000 employees and is hardly mentioned on the news while everyone is talking about Tesla :-)
- steinzi 3y agoWhat a strange little person you are; I would like to get to know you better and try to understand you
- 3y ago
- bestouff 3y agoWelcome to Europe Elon.