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I think GCP is better than AWS (2020)

• firebaze 3y ago
  a.k.a. Freedom of thought. Warning: extremely large wall of text waiting for you. On a more serious note: I, and most of the business I work for, value stability over hype. Skip to the almost last paragraph "Fear that GCP may be abandoned by Google", if that is of interest to you :)
  • verdverm 3y ago
    this is a rather inaccurate description of the article not a wall of text, the abandoned part is in the middle, not the end GCP has more uptime than AWS, and is stable, not sure what you are insinuating with "value stability over hype", the businesses I work with leave AWS for GCP for (1) cost savings (2) developer experience it hits many of my points for choosing GCP over AWS
    • firebaze 3y ago
      You're obviously right. Have my upvote for the well founded, substantial answer.
• esafak 3y ago
  Does anyone have recent experience with both? I'm in the market, for a startup, and I need to decide. My priorities are the data warehouse (BigQuery vs. Redshift) and ML (Vertex AI vs. SageMaker). This article is three years old. Vertex did not even exist then.
  • js4ever 3y ago
    One of the 2 never deprecate anything and ensure your workload will run untouched for 10y or more. The other one will force you every 6 months to update sdk, api endpoints or even kill a service you need in weeks. I let you guess who's who
  • MisterPea 3y ago
    I've worked in AWS before and also in a company that uses GCP. Funnily enough, I would recommend AWS over GCP in every single category except for the two that you mentioned. Although Snowflake is my choice for DW and it is cloud agnostic
  • opjjf 3y ago
    Don't know enough about Vertex AI, SageMaker is great though. But on BigQuery v Redshift: Having used both over many years, BigQuery is the clear winner. It's a much better, much more modern product. BigQuery is also a central part of GCP, with almost all services having integrations to it (PubSub, CloudSQL, Bigtable, etc). It also seems to get a lot of resources and is continuously improved. That is not the case for Redshift, which is not as important to AWS.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • mardifoufs 3y ago
    Choose whoever gives you the biggest startup credits. The UX and UI experience is secondary to that imo, and the other technical differences aren't something you will care about as a smaller startup.
  • slotrans 3y ago
    I would choose Redshift over BigQuery but that's because I know how to use it. Actual skill at databases is increasingly rare, so BigQuery wins this one for most. Watch your bill.
• craigmcnamara 3y ago
  I find the GCP documentation to be lacking compared to AWS. Specifically while using GCP with Terraform I hit more frustrating nonsense error messages with little to no google hits or undocumented behavior around IAM config compared to my experience doing similar things on AWS.
  • shell0x 3y ago
    100%. My experience has been the same. The docs have their shortcomings and I ended up reading through so many Github issues and random blog posts trying to resolve the issues. From a documentation perspective, AWS is still the best.
    • s-xyz 3y ago
      Wow I would literally say the opposite. I even use GCP docs as an example for my engineers on how to write proper docs, and did several workshops using the GCP docs as reference. Happy to share the presentation if interested.
      • Something1234 3y ago
        Would be interested in the presentation if you can share publicly
  • div_zero 3y ago
    I'm a technical writing manager on GCP, and we are actively working on improving Terraform documentation. Thank you for bringing up two significant problems with using TF on GCP. If you are willing (and of course have the time), we would love to hear other issues you - or anyone else who reads this thread - are having with TF documentation on GCP as we try and make things better.
    • mdaniel 3y ago
      Given: https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hashicorp/google/5.3.0/docs/resources/cloud_run_v2_service https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hashicorp/google/5.3... how would any reasonable person know what https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hashicorp/google/5.3.0/docs/resources/google_project_service https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hashicorp/google/5.3... to enable without (a) trying it and squinting at the error message (b) clicking on the API documentation <https://cloud.google.com/run/docs/reference/rest/v2/projects.locations.services https://cloud.google.com/run/docs/reference/rest/v2/projects...> then realizing it, also, does not mention run.googleapis.com, click on "supported service endpoints" <https://cloud.google.com/run/docs/reference/rest#rest_endpoints https://cloud.google.com/run/docs/reference/rest#rest_endpoi...> and only then learning about https://cloud.google.com/run/docs/reference/rest#service:-run.googleapis.com https://cloud.google.com/run/docs/reference/rest#service:-ru... Repeat for https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hashicorp/google/5.3.0/docs/resources/cloud_identity_group https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hashicorp/google/5.3... although in both cases I guess the astute reader may have spotted the run.googleapis.com in the forbidden service labels and cloudidentity.googleapis.com in the example Since, to the best of my knowledge those bindings are auto generated <https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/magic-modules#magic-modules https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/magic-modules#magic-m...>, I would hypothesize it is not insurmountable drop in the seemingly existing declaration of APIs required: https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/magic-modules/blob/7d76e3b6f834bcea8f0edf086207af30da5e4665/mmv1/products/cloudrunv2/product.yaml#L26-L29 https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/magic-modules/blob/7d... https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/magic-modules/blob/7d76e3b6f834bcea8f0edf086207af30da5e4665/mmv1/products/cloudidentity/product.yaml#L26-L29 https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/magic-modules/blob/7d...
• notfried 3y ago
  I don't buy the article's argument around the "Fear that GCP may be abandoned by Google". Yes, it is highly unlikely that Google will wake-up one day and announce a deprecation day for GCP, like they did with dozens of other products. What is not unlikely though is that they under-invest in it compared to AWS, and being a 2nd or 3rd player, they would fall behind in products and/or reliability, unable to compete on price or features due to better economies of scale of the competitors. Before Google kills products, they lose interest in them.
  • firebaze 3y ago
    It's not highly unlikely. Google has so much ad money at hand, anything else hardly matters.
  • esafak 3y ago
    Not going to happen; they kill consumer- not enterprise products. I searched https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/ for "Google Cloud" and the only dead enterprise products that stood out were Google Cloud Messaging and Google Cloud Prediction API. But they replaced those with Firebase Cloud Messaging and the AI Platform Prediction API.
    • slimsag 3y ago
      And Enterprise Hangouts: > Workspace customers (the paid business version of Google apps) finally had Hangouts removed in March 2022 And Google Domains.. And Google Cloud IoT Core.. And Google Go Links.. And Google Maps Coordinate.. ...
  • splix 3y ago
    It can create problems from a different angle, though. Google might lock your account for no reason for a week, without any explanation. If that happens, it's your problem if you lose your whole business after a week of downtime. Since it's Google, you can't even contact support. This has happened to me a couple of times. Once, my account was locked for a day because their system flagged one of my servers for suspicious traffic. They locked all my servers, databases, and everything else, not just that one server. Another time, they locked a different project for a week. It actually took me a week to find a human who could unlock it; otherwise, it could have been even longer. I still don't know the reason for the lock. So the main problem is that Google don't care about GCP at all, and threat paid customers in same way as free users (i.e., hostile to both)
• theshrike79 3y ago
  With even a medium level investment in AWS, I can get actual human people from Amazon on my company Slack on a channel and I can talk to them directly. I can get them to fly to our office to train people or workshop on how to use the resources more effectively. On GCP I get some AI bot that doesn't answer anything and if I anger it by accident, my account and my business is gone. Then my only option is getting on the HN front page to get some help.
• dang 3y ago
  Related: Many ways where GCP excels over AWS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23124350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23124350 - May 2020 (39 comments)
• skadamat 3y ago
  My biggest challenge with GCP is that I'm still not convinced Google cares that much about this division. They acquired Looker, fired the customer service staff, and then set it out to crumble. Looker used to be LOVED by its customers but now they were forced to make their semantic layer work with Tableau. Also, I'm still not convinced Google cares about divisions that aren't linked to advertising. Google Search, Gmail (kinda), Maps, Android, and YouTube are their darlings. Will GCP be around in 5 years? I honestly am not sure.
  • christkv 3y ago
    Considering their earnings today being down in cloud I think I would rightfully worry about their long term commitment.
    • resolutebat 3y ago
      GCP revenue is up 28% YoY, and it went from a $440M quarterly loss in 2022 Q3 to a $266M profit 2023 Q3. Who'd shut down a business like that?
      • x86x87 3y ago
        Lol. You're new around here? Google has closed time after time things that were profitable and/or loved by their customer. At this point I don't see how anyone would be willing to bet the farm on anything Google
  • danielmarkbruce 3y ago
    I used to work in GCP. They are definitely committed to it. Search, Android, Google Cloud, YouTube - definitely committed. It's the random little things they build too many of and hence close down. They never really understood branding. Slapping Google on everything doesn't help, it hurts. Many things are actually experiments and shouldn't be marketed as more than that.
    • idunno246 3y ago
• s-xyz 3y ago
  I share the same experience and opinion. I cannot imagine what a significant argument would be to use AWS instead of GCP that outweighs the benefits and the seemingly integrated services. GCP has so far covered 99% of my use cases, and I can testify that I have a lot of advanced cases linked to data management, information security, networking and more. I am open and do not judge AWS, and perhaps its also a matter of what you are used to. However my style and approach to problems is more in alignment with GCP. I am for example of the opinion that the cloud provider should take care of everything linked to infrastructure, maintenance and as well scaling. And all of that should be as simple as possible. There is no need to overcomplicate. In this way I can focus on what makes my product unique, rather than spending my time on over-engineering repetitive features with zero value added.
  • HideousKojima 3y ago
    > cannot imagine what a significant argument would be to use AWS instead of GCP that outweighs the benefits and the seemingly integrated services. Confidence that it will continue to exist in the next 3-10 years?
    • Eridrus 3y ago
      What odds would you like to bet that GCP is going to be gone in 10 years?
      • perelin 3y ago
        The sentiment is probably not abou GCP as a whole, but about its trigger happiness when it comes to deprecating services. Fun read: https://steve-yegge.medium.com/dear-google-cloud-your-deprecation-policy-is-killing-you-ee7525dc05dc https://steve-yegge.medium.com/dear-google-cloud-your-deprec...
        • Eridrus 3y ago
          I'm not going to read yegge's rants. Name the odds and condition you think gcp will violate.
• Ameo 3y ago
  My two cents, GCP has a few excellent gems which are better than pretty much any competing cloud offering: - Cloud Run. Best way to deploy containers hands down. All of the benefits of a serverless/containerized workload with all the ease of a traditional VPS deployment. Extremely cheap (pay $0 for side projects with little traffic). - BigQuery. Very easy to use with immense power without having to deal with the details yourself. Billing can be either extremely cheap or rather expensive depending on what you're doing, though. - GCS Archive Storage. 1/3 the cost of glacier for storage ($0.0012/GB/Month lol), but more for retrieval. Has none of the annoyances of Glacier (you can download your files instantly, upload using normal APIs). Perfect for extremely cheap backups. - Cloud Spanner. I've not had a reason to use this yet myself, but there really aren't any comparable offerings that I know of.
  • JSavageOne 3y ago
    Yes Google Cloud Run is my go-to for all my side projects, and AWS doesn't have anything equivalent. Never saw any reason to use AWS for that reason as Google has everything else I'd need. And if I just want a cheap VPS, would prefer to use something cheaper like Linode or Digital Ocean.
    • siquick 3y ago
      In my experience of using both, AWS AppRunner is as good as Cloud Run except you can’t scale AppRunner down to 0 instances so it has an ongoing cost.
      • pid-1 3y ago
        It basically doesn't have the main thing that makes Cloud Run so valuable. Speaking more generally, it seems AWS is allergic to creating products that scale to zero nowadays.
        • slrainka 3y ago
          App Runner is an abstraction on top of FarGate designed to compete with Cloud Run, which is why it doesn’t scale down to zero. I too haven’t found anything that beats the simplicity of a GCP deployment sigh..
• PaulHoule 3y ago
  I did a shootout of a number of cloud visual recognition APIs. All of them took less then 20 minutes to have a demo running except for GCP which rudely required me to install special software to log in which trashed the Python installation on my machine and overall took an order of magnitude more time than all the others... No thanks.
  • jeffbee 3y ago
    Python inside and outside of Google is a disaster. They broke their own API last year with a release of their own project. https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/2uFuNdeK9xXSwY9w7cCj https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/2uFuNdeK9xXSwY9w7c...
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Technology isn't a weakness with Google... never was. Most of their stuff is top-notch technology-wise. The problems are from a business-angle and being their customer. Meaning, even if you're a F500 company you are an insignificant gnat on the windshield of the gigantic G-machine that makes its money elsewhere. Now, I don't believe think they'd actually shut GCP down. Cloud is just too damn strategic in a post Y2k world. Complain about Amazon if you wish, and there are many reasons to. They are not as tech-oriented and the task-master culture of Bezos is well-known by now. But at the very least they are sales and customer focused, and retail and cloud is where they make their money. So incentives are better aligned with them. Even if their customer service is not amazing, the fact that it actually exists is a large factor in their favor.
  • ctvo 3y ago
    > Technology isn't a weakness with Google... never was. Most of their stuff is top-notch technology-wise. The problems are from a business-angle and being their customer. There's very little technologically impressive with GCP. It's the same products from all three vendors with few exceptions. What's a clear weakness with GCP is Google's lack of seriousness as operators. Regions in the same data center, outages that take down a whole region for 3+ days. It's not good.
    • mixmastamyk 3y ago
      I remember early on G was doing several second billing, while AWS was on minutes. There are other things like better performance, authoring K8s and http2/3 etc that gave them the edge. AWS was earlier and had greater breadth of course.
• simonebrunozzi 3y ago
  See Google/Alphabet's latest quarterly earnings. There's a decent chance that in a few years GCP will be no more. I had an argument with one of the biggest investors in Google a few years ago, in which I was predicting exactly this scenario. He didn't believe me. Perhaps I was right after all. GCP lost a ton of money since its inception. Its leadership is so far away from being able to run this business properly, that I would never recommend anyone to put all their eggs on GCP. Plus, as your company scales, you should REDUCE, not increase, your cloud usage, in favor of a properly optimized on-prem. Well, just my 0.02. What do I know, right?
  • VirusNewbie 3y ago
    Wait, so a few years ago you predicted that they'd deprecate cloud, and now, when GCP is making a profit and growing revenue substantially, you're more inclined to think your prediction is coming true? >Plus, as your company scales, you should REDUCE, not increase, your cloud usage, in favor of a properly optimized on-prem. Yes if you get to dropbox size it might make sense to go to on prem, but most F500 companies save money going to the cloud for a multitude of reasons.
  • throwaway2990 3y ago
    > What do I know, right? > you should REDUCE, not increase, your cloud usage, in favor of a properly optimized on-prem. Based on this. Not much. Unless all you need is a single location and a couple of load balancer servers. No you should not move to on-Prem. It has no benefit and isn’t magically cheaper.
  • heybrendan 3y ago
    While I appreciate you've disclosed your affiliations in your profile, can you claim complete objectivity on this topic? Would your stake in VMware and AWS not be {threatened,weakened}, perhaps severely, should Google succeed in Cloud?
    • simonebrunozzi 3y ago
      I haven't had any stake in VMW or AWS (AMZN) for a few years now (~6 as of now). I was AWS 2008-2014, and VMware 2014-2016.
• zoomzoom 3y ago
  My view is that there are areas where GCP is better and areas where AWS is better. AWS has a much bigger community, and better business continuity story. GCP has a better developer experience and more uniquely-amazing best-in-class products (e.g. Spanner, Cloud Run, BigQuery). In the end, I don't believe Google will shut down GCP. At Coherence (withcoherence.com) - I'm a cofounder - we deliver a developer platform that lets use use either cloud in a developer-friendly way. It also gives you some protection against lock-in to either cloud.
• mdaniel 3y ago
  non-slimey link: https://nandovillalba.scribe.rip/why-i-think-gcp-is-better-than-aws-ea78f9975bda https://nandovillalba.scribe.rip/why-i-think-gcp-is-better-t... and, as an AWS-er having to now support GCP, I violently and emphatically disagree with this: > The experience of GCP on the other hand is more like collecting the car keys and driving off from the parking lot, with the option of dismantling and customising the car if you wish, but the default is a fully built functioning car with cohesive parts so you can quickly achieve your objectives, which is driving around, not assemble the car. Oh, really? I invite the GCP newcomer to click on https://console.cloud.google.com/ https://console.cloud.google.com/ create a new Project, and then run $(gcloud functions list) or, as the sibling comment pointed out, $(gcloud run jobs list) and watch it cheerfully tell you that you must turn on those services for each and every Project. And not just cloudfunctions.googleapis.com or run.googleapis.com, it's for damn near everything a sane person would want to use cloud computing for I reiterate: you cannot turn on those APIs for your GCP "account," you must do it for each and every Project you create Oh, you're the Super Admin for your Google account? Well, be sure you grant yourself the resourcemanager.projectCreator Role because as super admin you don't automatically have it A reasonable person may retort that these are "secure by design" by opt-ing-in to surface area and permissions that one wishes to have, but as compared to "create AWS Account, start using ELB like it ain't no thing and I have AdministratorAccess granting me * permissions" -- let's not start talking about collecting car keys and driving off the lot
• nologic01 3y ago
  would GCP (or AWS for that matter) survive on their own? What does the relation with the parent company provide and what does it demand in return? From a business model perspective both these two entities are an aberration in how far they are from their corporate umbrella. Microsoft, IBM, Oracle etc are more natural players in this domain but DigitalOcean shows you don't need to be bigtech to carve a niche.
  • ajross 3y ago
    GCP, AWS and Azure are all, for sure, 100%, big revenue centers for their corporate overlords. Cloud is where you go to make money, not lose it. It's the "enterprise" of the modern world. The only problem with it from a business perspective is that it's increasingly commoditized and so everyone can only compete on price these days. So margins will trend to zero over the decades, but these will always be profitable.
• akulbe 3y ago
  All of the smack talk about AWS rings true in my experience. The documentation is terrible and incomplete. That said… there's one MASSIVE reason I trust AWS over GCP. Google has a knack for killing products/services. Even when they seem to be popular. You don't know if a service will exist next week. But you took the time to invest in the ecosystem and get to know the offering… But Google does what Google does, and off to the pile it goes.
  • xyzelement 3y ago
    Has Google killed Cloud services people relied on? I am asking in good faith as I don't know. Whether Google kills random small-traction consumer products is kind of orthogonal to the Cloud question. If Amazon retail discontinues some Amazon Basics product, we don't read into that for AWS.
    • jcrben 3y ago
      They recently sold Google Domains to Squarespace which is messy given how it was integrated with Cloud Domains https://cloud.google.com/domains/docs/faq https://cloud.google.com/domains/docs/faq
    • redditor98654 3y ago
      Google Cloud IOT.
• vasili111 3y ago
  How GCP support compares to AWS support? What is your personal experience with support?
  • pyrophane 3y ago
    Having had experience with both at the level of companies spending $50-100k/mo I can say both were pretty equally bad.
    • throwaway2990 3y ago
      I doubt you were experiencing bad support with aws. You’re just bias.
  • pirsquare 3y ago
    Amazon is A-tier. GCP is F-tier GCP - Shutdown our production servers and took 1 whole week to get it resolved. Nothing fraudulent on our end. Just for missing out on KYC form.
• preommr 3y ago
  I'll continue beating the dead horse: I don't trust Google. At best GCP is slightly better than AWS (debatable), which is not enough to offset the risk because of how much of a pain it is to switch cloud providers. Even if GCP shutting down is one in a million, aws shutting down is 1 in ten million. Also, I keep getting the feeling that Google keeps trying to automate their customer service through bots. I have use quite a few google services from youtube, to google workspaces (a paid service) - I have never talked to a Google representative. I have talked to AWS service reps multiple times, I have talked to Amazon reps multiple times. Amazon as a company has real people you can talk to. I don't trust google to not shut down my gcp account because my gmail was connected to some project where I accidentally sent a bunch of spam emails to a test account. And if that did I happen, I feel like I would just get an automated message and a bunch of hoops to jump through before I could talk to a real person.
  • ajross 3y ago
    No interest on engaging on the core issues of trust, except to say my standard bit: HN is a site predicated on the whole idea of embracing risk. Except with this one particular vendor who everyone loves to distrust. Maybe... it's not about risk at all?
    • inopinatus 3y ago
      There’s a stark difference between risk that is predicated on your own wits and risk that is mediated entirely through a capricious and aloof supplier with a bit of a reputation for the rug-pull.
    • DoctorOW 3y ago
      Generally the phrase is "High risk, high reward." This would be considered a relatively low reward.
      • ajross 3y ago
        Nonetheless the chances of a median HN poster's employer being shived by a rogue Angel or dying to a founder feud are vastly (like, vastly vastly) higher than having Google drop one of their dependencies. And I guess I'd expect the discourse to reflect that. But instead it's the boring tech giant (yes, also my employer, though I work nowhere near cloud) who everyone seems to think is the existential threat? Like I said, I don't think this is about risk at all.
• eximius 3y ago
  While I never spent a lot of time in GCP, it seemed like it was harder to understand GCP itself as a platform compared to AWS. That is to say that Google APIs and services seem fine, but figuring out project management and infrastructure management feel incredibly weird. Not necessarily bad, but arcane and awkward where in AWS I can just hit the ground running. Arguably, debatably, GCP might have the "more correct" model with resources scoped to projects and such, but it does make the learning curve harder.
  • mdaniel 3y ago
    > figuring out project management and infrastructure management feel incredibly weird It's not just you, and the situation is worse than if they had no configuration management offering because, as Google is wont to do, they have several of them in various states of disrepair - they cite terraform as their go-to deployment solution in damn near every blog post, but if you're trying to create something for (new users | deployment into _someone else's project_) the instructions start with "well, open a Terminal and ..." - they now have some kind of "hosted terraform runner + state" whose name escapes me but is hiding somewhere in this list of a bazillion similarly named Cloud Somethings https://cloud.google.com/products?hl=en#section-14 https://cloud.google.com/products?hl=en#section-14 ("Infrastructure Manager" is the one I was trying to think of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37548639 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37548639 and is, ha ha, not on that products page which is why I could not find it) - they started to have a CloudFormation replacement with Deployment Manager <https://cloud.google.com/deployment-manager/docs/configuration/syntax-reference?hl=en https://cloud.google.com/deployment-manager/docs/configurati...> but, again, I cannot stress enough how GODDAMN STUPID this is: one must enable deployment manager to use it, and the way one does that is via gcloud, click ops <https://console.cloud.google.com/apis/library/deploymentmanager.googleapis.com https://console.cloud.google.com/apis/library/deploymentmana...>, or terraform -- then, ha ha, you went through all that trouble but you can't create an IAM Role with it <https://cloud.google.com/deployment-manager/docs/configuration/supported-resource-types?hl=en https://cloud.google.com/deployment-manager/docs/configurati...> partially because it's not a supported resource type and partially because MUTATING ROLE BINDINGS IS A RACE-CONDITION EVENT And speaking of, there is, of course, no way to enable project services via Deployment Manager, so pound sand if your Project was not already carefully configured in advance of Deployment Manager - cloud shell tutorials, which is basically the union of all of those: https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/cloud-shell-tutorials/overview https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/cloud-shell-tutorials/ov... although in that case they do actually go out of their way to allow one to create a Project, with the activated service APIs, during the tutorial: https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/cloud-shell-tutorials/directives-project-setup#enable_apis https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/cloud-shell-tutorials/di...
• Shakahs 3y ago
  GCP has some nice things but AWS is simply more reliable. The GCP outage [1] in April is a great example. A fire in europe-west9-a "zone" took down the entire europe-west9 "region" (because this entire "region" is actually housed in a single datacenter), which then caused a global GCP console/API outage because GCP's single global control plane couldn't reach europe-west9. The fact that a zonal issue escalated to a regional and then global outage shows that GCP is not serious about limiting blast radius and all their talk of independent regional/zonal infrastructure is marketing fluff. In comparison, AWS AZs can be up to 60 miles apart, share no physical infrastructure, and every region hosts its own API/console/control plane. Also, Nitro. AWS has essentially eliminated the performance overhead of virtualization with Nitro, and years later GCP still has no equivalent so GCP customers still have to pay for that overhead. 1: https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPfkY https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/dS9ps52MUnxQfyDGPf...
  • esprehn 3y ago
    That Incident Report is phrased awkwardly. GCP does not have a single global control plane. Each product has a separate control plane, and many/most of those are regional. GCE (Compute) does have a global control plane today. The GCP Console, unlike other cloud providers, displays an aggregated view over all the regions. That means calling the control plane for a particular service which then in turn will do fan-out to all regions and merge the results. For example a page might call the GCE global control plane: https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/reference/rest/v1/instances/aggregatedList https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/reference/rest/v1/inst... Or a different page might call this with - as the location to globally fan-out instead of talking to a particular region's control plane: https://cloud.google.com/functions/docs/reference/rest/v2/projects.locations.functions/list https://cloud.google.com/functions/docs/reference/rest/v2/pr... (Specifying the location would call that particular region though) During the incident the small (but critical) subset of Console pages which needed aggregated data from GCE's global control plane failed to load. I agree it's unacceptable that the Console doesn't handle regional failures more gracefully, and it's very much been a priority to improve region down handling. Source: I work on the GCP Console.
  • rwiggins 3y ago
• pyrophane 3y ago
  We use GCP at my current company and I've used AWS a lot in the past. Managing IAM users and roles on GCP is much more pleasant than AWS, and if you happen to use Google Workspace for you org, it approaches (as an infra engineer) the sublime. GCP projects are a really intuitive way to isolate resources that you don't want to be able to talk to each other by default. GKE has been very reliable. BigQuery got expensive faster than I was expecting, but it works and integrates well with GCP IAM and makes managing access to datasets easy. On the less positive side, support is lackluster, and GA doesn't necessarily mean what you want it to mean. Edit: Almost forgot! Again, if you use Google Workspace, then IAP is fantastic.
  • lantry 3y ago
    This matches my experience. Google workspace + GCP IAM almost makes it a joy to manage permissions
  • te_chris 3y ago
    I miss the glory days a few years ago when getting someone on the phone across your org as $400. From what I've read the Oracle boys flooded in and "sorted" that "problem"...
  • ramoz 3y ago
    IAM / Asset Inventory was always very useful as well.
• TNWin 3y ago
  We unfortunately have three vendors (AWS, GCP, Azure) at my company because of acquisitions and the cost involved to consolidate. I am part of the central team that manages the provisioning users and accounts and billing. AWS is miles ahead of how we can express what we want in accounting. AWS reps are much much more knowledgeable and a pleasure to work with when it comes to billing.
  • flowingfocus 3y ago
    Shameless plug: At the company I work for (meshcloud) we have developed a freely available model that describes the capabilities your central team is building up: https://cloudfoundation.org/maturity-model/ https://cloudfoundation.org/maturity-model/ Disclaimer: meshcloud sells a product for teams in that space
  • Jgrubb 3y ago
    Could you elaborate on the accounting part? I'm deeply involved with billing on all three and while AWS seems to have all the data you're looking for in the CUR, it can be a multi-quarter job to build up the expertise to understand that fact. GCP has different notions, like multiple credits applying to any given charge but again once you build up the expertise you can work with it. Azure seems by far the simplest to deal with and require the least wrangling.
• balls187 3y ago
  GCP lost me when I had to enable API errors from the console in order to see actual error in the console rather than a user hostile “Something went wrong” type message. There is probably a rational reason for this behavior, but I don’t care. Just tell me the error.
• pyrophane 3y ago
  One fundamental difference between GCP and AWS is that AWS puts zones in different buildings in the same, well, "region," whereas GCP just isolated them in the same building. Not the end of the world, but you shouldn't assume that by deploying things regionally with GCP you will be protected against, idk, a fire or water issue that has building-wide impact.
  • negus 3y ago
    Who told you that GCP AZs typically coexist in the same building? Can you provide the source of this information? If you open for example one site of us-central1 region ( 41.17425599375981, -95.80193009453644 ) you will see that just this one site has several buildings.
• nathants 3y ago
  i’ve built bespoke automation at the api level for azure, gcp, and aws. using azure makes you want to watch the world burn. using gcp makes you want to give alcoholism a fair try. using aws makes you wonder why we can’t have nice things. ime those who prefer gcp tend to use a web interface. those who don’t have a preference tend to use iac. you want to work directly with the api, for innumerable reasons. aws is the canonical example of use boring tech. nobody cares which database you use, not even a little. if you’re talking about your stack choices, your product likely has negative value. of all the projects i pull into my rss reader, github commits on the aws-go-sdk-v1 are the most consistent and unsurprising. ive been following aws api and service changes since boto1. there’s a lot i wish was different about aws, but nothing that’s urgent. someday we’ll get better providers. it won’t be azure or gcp. it will be a new player. by 2030 i’d expect to see someone disrupting aws by offering api compatible clones of the core services without egress fees. r53, dynamo, ec2, ec2 spot, lambda, s3, apigateway, sqs.
  • catlover76 3y ago
    I defer to your expertise, esp when it comes to actually using these different services at scale, but as someone who used to deploy only to Heroku and wanted to learn real cloud deployment, AWS was pretty unapproachable. I almost laughed out loud at how unnecessarily arcane and difficult they made things when all I wanted to do was set up a simple Python app on EC2. Google Cloud felt easier and intuitive to get started with, so that's what I use now.
    • nathants 3y ago
      too much maybe? yelling at clouds just feels so good sometimes. apologies. i do actually wish we could have nice things. this is how aws became easy and fun for me[1]. a similar interface could exist for any provider. heroku is right about picking the good parts and exposing only that as an interface. 1. https://github.com/nathants/libaws https://github.com/nathants/libaws
      • MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
        Thats sounds sweet. I suppose its just for when you really love lambdas (I don't)?
• lowbloodsugar 3y ago
  I mean, the author makes the arbitrary decision to equate AWS accounts with GCP projects, and then from there determines that this is unsatisfactory. This is not my experience at all, and it wasn't until I joined a Fortune 500 company that I ever came across the idea of separate accounts - and they were split along corporate accounting divisions.
• pirsquare 3y ago
  GCP will shutdown your production servers and take one whole week to get it back. All for missing out on a KYC form. Our story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35133917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35133917 Forget about the initial shutdown, how can you take 1 whole week to resolve something critical like this. Even if Google is offering me $1mil cloud credits today I wouldn't risk my business with them anymore.
  • negus 3y ago
    Confirm. I like GCP and I'm going to use it for the new projects as well, but the situation with their antifraud checks is really troublesome
• QuinnyPig 3y ago
  They shut down Google Cloud IoT Core. Y’know, the thing you need to update all of your field devices to be aware of?
• bjord 3y ago
  To me, GCP does seem easier to use, but I've recently had some instances where I had externally-hosted services (Zaps) make calls to my cloud functions there and inexplicably fail, with no logs whatsoever. While I was trying to figure out what went wrong, I found some other people online who said that their Google rep had mentioned "service instability" or something of the sort to them. Thinking that must've been the case, I went to reach out to GCP support (as nothing was mentioned on their outages page), only to find that it costs $30 / month to get help with anything other than issues with billing (and their pricing page threatens to ban you from support access entirely if you are caught buying it and canceling it after use).
• sovnade 3y ago
  To everyone saying GCP will be gone - it generates over $8 billion in revenue per year and $400 million in profit. There's no chance they kill it any time soon. Yes it posted heavy losses in the past, but any major infrastructure does, and obviously there is a major amount of potential - and they have around 10% of the total cloud market share, not insignificant by any means.
  • hncommenter13 3y ago
    One correction. It's not $8B per year, it's $8.4B in the last quarter--which is over $32B annualized, especially considering the last quarter's revenue grew over 20% from the same time last year. GCP's profit margins are low (for now) but positive. [1] Moreover, per its filings, Google had almost $65B of contracted backlog representing customer commitments for future purchases (over multiple years), primarily related to Google Cloud. That is not to say those can't ever be unwound or delayed, but it's a pretty meaningful amount, even to a company the size of Google. [2] [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000165204423000094/goog-20230930.htm#:~:text=Disaggregated%20Revenues https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000165204423... [2] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000165204423000094/goog-20230930.htm#:~:text=remaining%20performance%20obligations%20(%E2%80%9C-,revenue%20backlog,-%E2%80%9D)%2C%20primarily%20related%20to https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1652044/000165204423... edit: formatting
• syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  What are people's thoughts on DigitalOcean compared to AWS and/or GCP?
• bloppe 3y ago
  A lot of people (understandably) complain about longevity of various Google products. One thing that's nice about their overall cloud strategy is their focus on interoperability. As the incumbents, AWS and Azure strive for lock-in. As the relative upstart, GCP aims to grease the wheels of switching to their platform. To that end, they've pioneered technologies like Kubernetes and the golang CDK to enable people implement their services in a vendor-agnostic way so they can easily switch around. GCP encourages that, which is nice, especially in the worst cases.
• grahamgooch 3y ago
  Perhaps from a technology standpoint (debateable). But from the perspective of a CEO, we want 1. Talent hiring should be easy, so we can plan growth 2. There should be a good self service support for developers 3. Need good sales support in architecture and tech selection (when needed) 4. Need to be able to get through to support engineer in 5 mins or less (we use aws premium support) 5. Need single vendor (as much as possible). We consume a lot if what aws has to offer - we use their workspaces, mac cloud, device farm, code commit etc We did a proper shoot out. While aws has its idiosyncrasies- it’s light years ahead of Google and Microsoft Ps. We use Gsuite (for the last decade) - teaching a live human used to a challenge - now it’s a major pain. If we find a better alternative to Gmail, Gdocs (etc). I’d switch in a heartbeat.
• ianpenney 3y ago
  Tell me what your company’s existing IAM strategy is and I’ll tell you what cloud you should go all in on.
  • raxxorraxor 3y ago
    What about the "I am the admin of everything and I grant specific users admin rights until they stop nagging"-strategy? Medium sized company with low fluctuation of engineers.
  • DEDLINE 3y ago
    Can you elaborate here? I think I agree with you but I want to know why.
• 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
  I use both. GCP sucks, AWS rocks. GCP is theoretically superior because it has more features and integrations built in. But in practice it's a big mess, and if you want to do anything the "not GCP way", you're better off just not using it at all. People talk about GCP "getting X right", which might be true, except to actually use the thing that they "got right" you have to use everything else they have, and good luck figuring out how to do that with their insanely bad/missing docs. Let's not even get into how they overload the same concept in multiple places, have tons of arbitrary limitations of naming conventions for different components, navigating the console is a pain (and again arbitrarily limiting), and services are weirdly implemented so the SDK is inconsistent. They tried really hard to pretend they had some unified, Enterprise-ready, perfect system/design, and of course failed at implementation, because perfect systems don't exist. Their support is crap and their services are down a lot, and very slow to orchestrate. AWS is less feature-filled by default, but everything that is there works, isn't complicated, can be used a-la-carte, and docs are easy to find. Support is insanely reliable. They take a one-useful-piece-at-a-time approach rather than making you use the kitchen sink, and it's not hard to get things working (well, not any harder than for any other cloud provider). Pretty much everything they do is simpler and more reliable.
  • negus 3y ago
    Can you be more specific? I experience no problems navigating the GCP Console UI. Though I mostly do not do it -- I have stuctured bookmarklets for everything I use and it works really great. And also I use gcloud and Terraform a lot. GCP support also provides the answers I need.
    • bng5 3y ago
      I have very little experience with GCP as not much of an infra person. However, for me the most annoying bit is how the profiler is using its welcome screen as a loading indicator as well as 'there is no data' page. Makes it very hard to browse data.
  • danpalmer 3y ago
    I've had nearly the opposite experience, except for support where I've had good and bad experiences with both AWS and GCP. I never understood why people love AWS support so much, it seemed pretty "meh" and I've heard from friends who have had truly awful experiences with paid support for security issues. In my experience, GCP has a solid, easy, happy-path, and reasonable options for the more esoteric use-cases. AWS typically had a happy path that was clearly poor engineering/dev-ops practice, and more esoteric use-cases required gross hacks and either worked or threw weird errors that suggested it was a pile of shell scripts under the hood. Everyone will have different experiences with this of course, but product excellence is not an advantage of AWS that I hear from people, it's always support, or pricing, or contracts.
• VincentEvans 3y ago
  Ah, the time has come for me to do another rant about Amazon - Open amazon app on your phone - Type in “craftsman firepit spark screen” into search and get results - Is the top result a craftsman product? No. Why? Who knows. But it’s ok, it’s like the third one down, though this is already hinting on the things to come. - Open up product details for the Craftsman one. It’s called, and make a mental note here “CRAFTSMAN 19.5 Spark Screen for Smokeless Fire Pit Stainless Steel Mesh Lid Outdoor Fire Safety for Backyard Bonfires“. - Oh no, it’s not quite the right size for the model I have. But there’s a helpful link to “Visit the Craftsman Store” at the top, which is I suppose a little section of Amazon that is all things Craftsman. Let’s click it to find the right size model. - It takes me to a page with a nice big Craftsman Logo and a search bar inviting me “Search all Craftsman”. - I enter “spark screen”. That’s the name of the product from the listing after all. - I get 5 results. They are: screwdriver socket, 46 inch lawnmower blades, screwdriver set, pressure washer, and an electric lawnmover. - The end. This is the company on the forefront of machine learning. PS: As a bonus story - I was recently trying to find “Wonderpets” cartoon for my daughter, using Amazon Prime Video apple tv app - and not quite remembering the name, I typed in “wonder pets” into the search box, and as you might have guessed, the cartoon I was searching for wasn’t in the results. Makes you wonder how many more resources of time, money and people does Amazon need so that my simple interactions with their consumer products are not such a subpar experience.
  • cjbgkagh 3y ago
    They’re optimizing on revenue not helping you find what you’re looking for
  • archgoon 3y ago
    [dead]
• mitaphane 3y ago
  I think YRMV depending on what you're trying to do, but I think the DX & web console experience is much more pleasant on GCP. On GCP, their services are cleanly organized and have distinct icons that tell me what it does with minimal reading. On AWS, often I'm left scratching my head (see https://awsiconquiz.com/ https://awsiconquiz.com/) The web console design on AWS is catching up (for a long time the UI just looked like an offshoot of the e-commerce site design and wasn't very clean) to GCP, but occasionally you still find elements of the old AWS console design. Often, it seems like AWS has more leaky abstractions that require you to be more aware of all the other connecting components of their infra services. For example, trying running managed Airflow on AWS/GCP. Both services require some VPC & storage infra setup to get your Airflow container services running. On GCP, you can spin up Cloud Composer without specifying your VPC or storage bucket details and they'll default them for you. AWS however, you'll need to have your VPC/S3 already setup ahead and if you've not configured your private/public subnets or S3 IAM policy, you can put your Airflow environment into a non-workable state. Overall, I think GCP has some advantages of not being saddled with legacy baggage that AWS has with making sure their services are interoperable.
  • robertlagrant 3y ago
    I agree - Kubernetes on AWS was a bit of a shock after using it on GCP (yay) and Azure (meh). I think it makes sense if you've used AWS for a while, and know the security groups etc dance, but it was a bit jarring.
• slantedview 3y ago
  Is there any good data comparing cloud provider uptimes? I know GCP had an outage recently that impacted me.
• ggm 3y ago
  AWS: there is a specific option to fix your specific problem, but it's buried in a menu with 258 choices in CamelCaseButWhichOne? GCP: gcloud --butwhichone --orIsitThisOne --No-Dammit-Its-In-YAML=./yaml-file
• deanCommie 3y ago
  > GCP has done well integrating their different services together. GCP provides a smaller set of core primitives that are global and work well for lots of use cases. Pub/Sub is probably the best example I have for this. GCP has Pub/Sub. Pub/Sub seems flexible enough to replace most (all?) of AWS’ various queues. I feel like if you're going to spend this much time writing something in this much detail, the least you can do is try to understand some of the things you're criticizing and not say things so wildly incorrect. > In AWS you have SQS, SNS, Amazon MQ, Kinesis Data Streams, Kinesis Data Firehose, DynamoDB Streams, and maybe another queueing service by the time you read this post. The most accurate criticism would be that Pub/Sub combines AWS's SQS and SNS. AWS had SQS first for 1-to-1 async queuing integrations. Then they added SNS for fan-out. GCP just started with fan-out from the start and said "well if you don't want to fan out, and just have one subscription, it's basically fine. That's actually also true with AWS too - nobody is stopping you from using SNS this way. SQS was the first AWS service (S3 went "GA" first, though), and AWS doesn't deprecate things that are popular with customers. Amazon MQ is Amazon's managed Apache MQ. You can criticize Amazon for hosting managed open source software, but there is a reason why it exists for customers that want to use an industry standard queueing service but not worry about operating it. GCP's competitor to Kinesis isn't Pub/Sub, it's Dataflow -> https://cloud.google.com/dataflow https://cloud.google.com/dataflow Both are described as for the same use case - streaming, analytics, batch processing. Kinesis Data Firehose may be another valid criticism. It can be thought of a "Simplified Kinesis that can push data instead of pulling it". It is clearly coupled tightly with Kinesis Data Streams itself, so in another company that cared less about not breaking backwards compatibility maybe they would've bolted those features on top of Kinesis. DynamoDB Streams is also not a separate service. It's a feature of DynamoDB - streams data capture streams from a database. Exactly like... https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/change-streams-overview https://cloud.google.com/bigtable/docs/change-streams-overvi... > 2019 Update: Amazon has now released another streaming service: Amazon Managed Streaming Kafka. GCP also has a Managed Kafka service only theirs is a collaboration with Confluent: https://cloud.google.com/learn/what-is-apache-kafka https://cloud.google.com/learn/what-is-apache-kafka "Confluent Cloud on Google Cloud provides fully managed Apache Kafka as a service so you can focus on building apps and not managing clusters."
• kristianpaul 3y ago
  Their kms offering is cheaper and that alway free tier for a small vm still helps.
• thiht 3y ago
  As much as I don’t like using a Google product, I have to admit GCP is wonderful. I really think GCP is the best UX Google has to offer. My favorite feature is that whatever you do on the web console, GCP will show you the equivalent gcloud CLI command. It can also give you the Terraform plan for some already created resources (maybe it’s even everywhere? Not sure) The configuration and naming of the services is also wayyy more sane than AWS overall, you actually know what they do from the name only most of the time.
• kitallis 3y ago
  GCP allows editing memory and CPU on VMs, which is super handy.
• bullen 3y ago
  The only real reason is GCP has a central US region. How AWS is still stuck at the coasts is beyond me.
  • Jgrubb 3y ago
    Us East 2 is in Ohio. Not sure which GCP region is central US, they have VA and SC in the East. Edit: looks Iowa and Texas and Ohio as well for GCP
    • bullen 3y ago
      Not bad but still east. GCP is Omaha in Iowa. So again what is AWS doing for multiplayer gaming?
      • CyberDildonics 3y ago
        Omaha is in Nebraska
• donatj 3y ago
  We still use AWS but it's been a couple years since I've really needed to dig into it because we have very competent people who'se job that is now. My memories of having to find the right form, paste the right ID of the right server/bucket/lambda into are pretty traumatic. A TON of guesswork. Lot of what felt like duct taping things together. If you don't have a full mental model of how everything works, they're certainly not going to help you get one without reading documentation. Their documentation is for the most part top tier, but the UX makes it more important than it arguably should be. There's a difference between not handholding and just being obtuse, and I feel like so much of AWS's UI/general design philosophy falls into the latter camp.
  • te_chris 3y ago
    Most of that stuff is far better managed with Terraform or similar as you have a record of which values go where that's mostly pretty easy to consume later. Using the console for anything beyond trivial admin is definitely an anti-pattern given how complicated the major cloud platforms are.
• h1fra 3y ago
  I personally enjoy GCP much more because it's easier. You can do almost everything from the UI and products are named the way you expect them to be named (except for a few exceptions). When you are doing devops on the side not as your main job, it's really a game changer compared to the cryptic AWS UI. The only part lacking imo is the log/monitoring which is definitely subpar, just logging proper json is a mess.
• Decabytes 3y ago
  In my opinion all of GCPs advantages are eliminated by the fact that it is a Google product and I wouldn’t want to trust my business/livelihood to google. And this is not just an opinion I share, it’s the opinion of the large company I work for
  • akoboldfrying 3y ago
    Do you (ETA: and your company) feel that way about Google, but not about Amazon or Microsoft? Genuinely curious.
    • Decabytes 3y ago
      We are a Microsoft shop now but used to be an Amazon shop. We don't feel the same way about Amazon and Microsoft as Google. I've seen plenty of people post on here or Twitter about how they've been locked out of a Google account. When exploring LLM solutions Google wasn't even on the table and killedbygoogle was referenced in that company meeting. Sure there is a killed by Microsoft website but if you look at the Microsoft one it spans 34 years and 158 products, while Google's spans 17 years and includes 293. That timeline alone gives me more confidence in Microsoft over Google. Personally there are only two products of Googles I feel comfortable relying on. Google Chrome and Go.
• begueradj 3y ago
  Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy is Killing You: https://steve-yegge.medium.com/dear-google-cloud-your-deprecation-policy-is-killing-you-ee7525dc05dc https://steve-yegge.medium.com/dear-google-cloud-your-deprec...
• tamarlikesdata 3y ago
  BigQuery is probably the strongest aspect
• ThinkBeat 3y ago
  A few years ago I worked at a company that lacked any form of CI/DF. I set up TeamCity in a few hours and it was up and running, but it did not see much adoption. Then they had a super long internal project on how to improve their development processes. The code base was more than 90% .Net code on the back end. The company decided they wanted to avoid vendor lock and thus, they would not use Azure, and decided that AWS was the best candidate. My team was assigned to configure and set up the CI/CD pipeline. After quite a lot of time, months, we had to admit that we had failed. The company hired an AWS expert who didn't get much done. That person was soon gone. At least a quarter has passed since it began. The company hired 2 "elite", "top of the line" AWS experts. They got it done, but it took them well over a month. Afterwards it mostly worked. I dont want to know the total cost but it was enormous. Since they were a Microsoft shop, going with Azure would have saved them a s*load of money, as well as time. Since Azure integrates pretty with Visual Studio configurations and solutions we would have it done in less than a month without external help. I set it up at a different shop and I spent a lot less than a month. I can't make a judgement that Azure is technically better, perhaps when it gets up and running it is a superior solution, but for a .Net shop I would choose Azure again the next time around.
  • autotune 3y ago
    Microsoft programming language works better on a Microsoft IaaS. Makes sense. Use the right tool for the job is a big part of the job.
• welzel 3y ago
  I don´t want to hate on the opinion of people, but "X is better then Y" is a pretty useless type of article. I have used AWS, GCP and Azure + some more that offer AWS style of services. In the end the question is "what is best for my organisation?" It really really really does not matter if a developer finds GCP more easy to use or if AWS is way better at feature X. The service has to fit the requirements. And even worse, sometimes the requirements do not care for usability, cost or features.
• Shorel 3y ago
  I would be very afraid of automatic blocking of our entire infrastructure if some developer gets his Google account banned. No one (human) to provide support either, just automated responses. Then the risk of some product being discontinued on Google is very real. The article just sidesteps it in the most unsatisfactory way, with a pinky promise that it won't happen. So the technology itself is not bad, but Google's customer management is so terrible that I would never risk a company's life on it.
• shantnutiwari 3y ago
  GCP has much better UI than AWS. GCP is easy and fun to use, while AWS looks like fighting 90s Windows 3.11 app (No comments on the poor behaviour towrds customers by both and Azure as well) Edit: And after fully reading the article, I agree with the author. Yes, GCP is very easy to use compared to the monster AWS is. Its Googles poor reputation, esp amongst the HN types, that I suspect is the reason not many people use it
• sfmike 3y ago
  Unfortunately it's all for nothing when your account is randomly deactivated for a TOS violation that can't be precisely named
• teitoklien 3y ago
  Google recently killed an important firebase feature around cross platform in-app links, not raise prices, no KILL IT. It’s a feature depended on by tons and tons of customers, that was a far bigger shock for me than google domains, atleast domain infra is designed with migration in mind usually (dns not included) But google killing of a vital feature[1] of firebase (with no google alternative provided) made me shit scared on if I should integrate with more of their products. They also randomly jacked up prices of sms authentication exponentially in a day without any major notice and caused a ton of people to get thousands of dollars in bill increase suddenly [2]. Staying away from google is a good idea unless playing russian roulette at work is your hobby. Every product there, is one manager’s ambition for promotion away from being killed and re-invented - [1] (https://firebase.google.com/docs/dynamic-links https://firebase.google.com/docs/dynamic-links) - [2] (https://www.reddit.com/r/Firebase/comments/14cj7au/firebase_new_sms_auth_costs/jus8hzp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Firebase/comments/14cj7au/firebase_...)