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Psytrance Guide
- harel 3y agoA while ago, In some nostalgic trip I've made a Spotify playlist of classic and classic-like tunes of the earlier sound (90s and Early 00): https://spotify.link/FidWchdd1Db https://spotify.link/FidWchdd1Db
- notrlyskeptik 3y ago[dead]
- standardly 3y agoDAE like Bluetech? Very accessible downtempo/psybient, used to listen to him a lot during my Simon Posford/IM phase.
- adnjoo 3y agoGreat! Reminds me of Ishkur’s guide
- ericHosick 3y agoIt's great to see a link specifically about Psytrance on Hacker News. I enjoy trying to understand how Psytrance is made and if that is something you find interesting too checkout @Projector_music on youtube (no affiliation).
- droopyEyelids 3y agoAny chance you typo'd that? I can't find it.
- nine_k 3y agoMaybe @projektor_music; seems to match the genre.
- sebosp 3y agoI would love to learn about this... Specially in the era of demucs, maybe some python automation to ableton live tracks that we can modify through the day slightly? I have playlist with dozens of 1+ hour videos on YouTube of psytrance and I find them so enjoyable, full of bass and good for focusing (granted there's the obligatory 1 minute muttering in the song of Terrence McKenna but OK, if psilocybin helped them create these amazing songs then so be it )
- jochem9 3y agoIf you want to literally program music, I can recommend Sonic Pi. The current top comment describes the typical psy bass line in technical terms, which is enough to recreate it in code.
- nonrandomstring 3y agoLearn about synthesis. Specifically the relation between the harmonic structure of the saw and square wave and the properties of a resonant filter that can pick these harmonics out in various ways. For psytrance many of the sequences are sparse, have subtle glissando and slides, in phrygian, hungarian minor and other exotic scales with canonical forms and contrapuntal rounds often achieved by shifting subsequences a few steps forward or backward.
- latchkey 3y agoDiscussions on similar submissions: Psytrance Guide https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20693904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20693904 (August 14, 2019 — 465 points, 210 comments)
- mellosouls 3y agoTerrific stuff - this is the sort of thing I use without really knowing what it is ("uh dark techno trance mix please YouTube") to get in the zone, so a very useful guide for me - even if the whole million-subgenre-effect feels somewhat like source material for a Monty Python sketch.
- mistermann 3y agoThis is the sort of project the world needs more of, thank you OP!
- z500 3y agoHi tech psytrance is some of the most aggressively weird stuff I've ever heard. I love it.
- dzolob 3y agoTry finnish psytrance. Texas Faggott, Flying Scorpions,OOOT… Suomisaundi psytrance is carzy.
- dylan604 3y agoI don't know why this is flagged. Texas Faggott perhaps? It the name of an artist. Soumisaundi - wikipedia[0] "In 1997 Exogenic Records became the first record label to focus on Suomisaundi and approximately during the same time Midiliitto was founded as an association focusing on the advancement of production and commercialisation of Suomisaundi. Pepe Kosminen was the founding Chairman of Midiliitto. Together with Flippin Bixies, Midiliitto counted within its members many of the future international stars of Suomisaundi, including the members of groups like Texas Faggott and Squaremeat." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomisaundi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomisaundi
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago[dead]
- maegul 3y agoNice! As an old Simon Posford (shpongle etc) fan boy … can anyone explain why exactly I’m not seeing his projects here? Too old, wrong genre?
- marssaxman 3y agoHallucinogen is listed under "goa trance", which seems like a reasonable place for it. Shpongle is downtempo, so not really psytrance, despite the goa flavor.
- dylan604 3y agoNot all of Shpongle is downtempo. That’s the beauty of Shpongle. One track is like a demo for a theatrical movie score. Pidgeon hole Shpongle at your own demise!
- unethical_ban 3y agoIs there something like this I can find for techno/trance/acid etc.? BPM, example songs, where to find more, lineage This site is awesome.
- dpc050505 3y agoBeatport is the main hub for digging for electronic music. A lot of producers are active on soundcloud and bandcamp. Looking at specific labels in particular is usually pretty good to find similar-but-different music.
- SturgeonsLaw 3y agohttps://music.ishkur.com/ https://music.ishkur.com/
- poisonarena 3y agoi use youtube, it has more music than soundcloud, beatport, spotify, etc.. I could explore it 24/7 and never hear it all, and i have a discogs window open to to research
- standardly 3y agolol I've been using YT for music for years. it's maybe slightly cumbersome, and a total waste of bandwidth. but i think its the largest catalogue of music available. i only recently stopped using it quite as much once they neutered the search function (all you get is "recommended for you" etc). but i'm happy to see a fellow youtube listener, thought I was the crazy one in my friend group
- an_aparallel 3y agodigging on discogs is great for electronic music imo. check out Telekom Beats TV on youtube - amazing german music channel. Their blind test is amazing. You'll get loads of recommendations. on discogs though if you enter a year range + combo of genres - then just listen to the results - you'll get some great recs imo!
- kortex 3y ago
- mateuspires 3y agoVery interesting guide. I liked the examples. The understanding of the author on each subgenre is surprisingly different from mine.
- empath-nirvana 3y agoSubgenres in dance music are _extremely_ fluid and change from year to year and even month to month. Some of them are basically just adjective + genre. The reason dance music has so many sub-genres has to do with how djs mix records. They want to mix songs _smoothly_ and to do that they need songs that sound substantially similar to other songs they want to play. So they find a song or two they like, then they go looking for songs with similar tempos, energy levels, instruments, etc, so they can mix them together. If enough people settle into a particular musical territory, that becomes a "sub-genre", at least for now. Even something sort of broad like "techno" evolves a lot over time.
- macNchz 3y agoI’ve enjoyed listening to psychedelic electronic music while programming since discovering Shpongle twenty years ago. I feel like it helps my brain get into the right mode somehow. I’m not familiar with the definitions of a lot of these sub-taxonomies but interested in listening to them! I have a coding playlist I’ve put together over the years that is more towards the psybient/chillout end but includes some trance as well, I like the variation in speed and intensity: https://spotify.link/CHSvf399YDb https://spotify.link/CHSvf399YDb
- dekhn 3y agothanks, my only comment on this topic was going to be "where can I find more like shpongle". Well, I guess the second comment would be "when will somebody make a Generative Shpongle?"
- aeontech 3y agoCheck out Benji Vaughan (the other half of Younger Brother along with Simon Posford), and his harder alias, Prometheus. his first solo album under his own name, Even Tundra, is incredible
- matt_j 3y agoHe just dropped a new album, Eidolon, last week. It's wonderful! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljzFWdax0iE&list=PL44Q4mKIiC8mjKAFJbEOWAevgr8wVgIlH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljzFWdax0iE&list=PL44Q4mKIiC...
- fein 3y agoI use this site fairly often to just browse stuff that comes up for bands I like. YMMV. https://www.music-map.com/shpongle https://www.music-map.com/shpongle
- dylan604 3y agoWalter Ego, Celtic Cross, Ott, Globular, Entheogenic, Younger Brother, Desert Dwellers, Jaia, Western Rebel Alliance, and the list goes on If Simon Posford is involved, give it a listen. Much better than some “AI” generative model
- booleanbetrayal 3y agoI have a couple of these recommendations on vinyl. Great guide!
- tikimcfee 3y agoThis is a treasure trove and I am immensely grateful for your sharing it.
- 29athrowaway 3y agoThis website helped me discover some psytrance genres. https://everynoise.com/ https://everynoise.com/
- Euphorbium 3y agoSome of those I absolutely love, some of those I absolutely hate and wish did not exist.
- jachee 3y ago“Hmm… I wonder where Infected Mushroom falls…” ^F Infected … zero results. o_O
- dylan604 3y agoOnce they started singing like Moby, well, whatevs. They laughed all the way to the bank with the explosion in popularity outside the 5000 people globally that knew who they were prior. Oforia, MFG, Astral Projection, and more fill the void the disinfected mushroom left
- paiute 3y agoI don’t know, converting vegetarians was a pretty awesome album.
- mock-possum 3y agoThey still make ‘classic’ style tracks often enough, but honestly I never started paying much attention to them until they started adding vocals - it really kicked them up to a new level of creativity and value for me. Vicious Delicious was the first time I was like, oh, yeah, this entire album!!!
- kortex 3y agoI don't understand why bands get so much animosity for "leaving their roots". IM make amazing, unique music and put on one hell of a live show. Is it as "pure" psytrance as Astral Projection et al? No but why does it have to be? They make music they like to make.
- dylan604 3y agoI don't understand your not understanding. Just because the band changes doesn't mean that the fans have to follow along if they don't like what they've started to produce. Everyone has their likes/dislikes. If someone makes specific reasonings for their tastes not following the new direction doesn't mean they are wrong. You're no better for making your comment than someone stating theirs. For example, how many people that like Ministry have ever heard their true first album and actually likes it?
- dylan604 3y agohttps://www.psydb.net/samples https://www.psydb.net/samples Is also fun to see a large library of the samples found in psytrance, but lots of other stuff on the site as well
- g-b-r 3y agoI used to listen all the time to http://spaceunicorn.radio http://spaceunicorn.radio *, most stuff is psytrance and great. I've rarely seen more than ten contemporary listeners and I don't remember how I ran into it myself, but it's the best psytrance thing I'm aware of. There are various djs though, not all equally good, so maybe check at different times (dj puddles is to a large degree a guarantee). * yes no tls : - (
- lolc 3y agoI was interested in that, but unless I missed it, it doesn't show the currently playing track. And no tracklist anywhere.
- g-b-r 3y agoYes that's one of its problems unfortunately. The radio seems to be an afterthought, with their main focus being on their Second Life (yes apparently it still exists) clubs. Anyhow, from Dj Puddles' YouTube videos ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz1rM6EhFvoqq6WC3f9fSwQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz1rM6EhFvoqq6WC3f9fSwQ ) it looks like the track is shown in the Second Life's clubs (the videos are often marred by the dj's unbearable distorted voice...). Furthermore, many of the mixes are published on mixcloud (https://www.mixcloud.com/DJBabeBPM https://www.mixcloud.com/DJBabeBPM , https://www.mixcloud.com/DJ_Gadget https://www.mixcloud.com/DJ_Gadget ), but you need to have a subscription to see the trackslist?? :facepalm: All in all, there seems to be an incredible effort on the music, the Second Life part and a lot more but the web side is definitely stuck in the 90s, disgracefully... They probably don't realize what they could be if they looked outside Second Life...
- ericyd 3y agoI have never understood why psytrance subgenres are so focused on BPM range. There is so much more to music than the tempo, it has always felt overly reductive to me. I had a friend who was a psytrance producer and even hearing him talk at length about it, I was never convinced that BPM was a critical differentiator. Also respectfully I think categorizing a subgenre as falling within 4 BPM is outrageously too narrow. Many casual listeners cannot even detect such a small change in tempo.
- bangkoksbest 3y agoBecause it's how DJs connect tracks together. That's the target audience for purchasing psytrance, and most electronic dance music, tracks.
- jjulius 3y agoYeah, but with most genres, you typically don't find them isolated to such small BPM ranges (I see on this guide ranges as low as 2 BPM). Most genres have a much wider range, eg ~10-ish or more BPMs. I really don't think it's accurate to limit these genres to such a small range, when a genre is more about the specific sound and style of a track. Source: DJ for ~25 years.
- bangkoksbest 3y agoYeah, I'm not saying all the genres operate the same with BPMs. Compared to most house and techno events I go to, I do feel that psytrance events are a bit more "unrelenting" in bpm where I wish there was more variety.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hutzlibu 3y ago"Many casual listeners cannot even detect such a small change in tempo." Maybe not consciously, but their heart can probably (literaly) feel it and react differently, which is what this is mostly about. And in general I totally agree, that there is way more to music than tempo and I am only partially into anything techno as I like more instruments and variations, but with electronic dance music the rhythm simply matters the most for dancing.
- dzolob 3y agoOh, boy. This post sent me way back in time, and I just realized psyshop closed its doors in 2021. It used to be my catalog for 0day psy mp3 to hunt in dc++ channels, where I used to hang for days, waiting for a slot to open. I think I still have some of those releases, and I sure was able to get a good chunk of Psytopia catalog. Dimension 5, Astral Projection, Infected Mushroom, Analog Pussy, Blue Planet Corporation, Mistery of the Yeti, Shiva Chandra… I miss my Spirit Zone Records shirt.
- panagathon 3y agoI love Mystery of the Yeti. What a great couple of albums. Surprised no Shpongle on the lists
- dzolob 3y agoHallucinogen/Shpongle/AnyPosford is always top, along with Astral Projection and other household names, but at this time (I’m talking 99-04+, when I was knee deep) there where plenty of efforts by so many people that somehow ended as cds and were sold on psyshop [0]. Some acts got to release two or three records in one year, all full of original songs and an hour+ long. Around that time, I became aware of 0day mp3 “scene”, and for some reason I became obsessed with getting all my psy/goa from scene releases. My day went back like this: check for weekly new releases on psyshop; monitor mp3 scene releases log dumps leaks on sites like mp3kings and others, and once the record was released, go hang on dc++ psyside, psyhub and other psy hubs and hit the search until someone appeared with the files. Then you could queue the files and idle until it got spread sufficiently or some “connected” user or admin was kind enough to grant you a slot. My method worked so well that I started getting requests from top users and admins to grant slots to get the latest stuff. I guess xkcd describes it better [1]. Some of the acts that got my attention or i can remember are: * Blue Planet Corporation * Phoney Orphans * Ticon * Son Kite * Flying Buddhas * Penta * Minilogue * Shiva Chandra * Shiva Shidappu * Astrix * Vibrasphere * Green nuns of the revolution * GMS * Talamasca * Total Eclipse * Astralasia * Cosma …and I could keep goin. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20200929135452/https://www.psyshop.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200929135452/https://www.psysh... [1] https://xkcd.com/1095/ https://xkcd.com/1095/
- jrflowers 3y agoI’m looking all around this website and haven’t found the works of Syd Dale anywhere
- nextstep 3y agoInteresting that this is on the front page of HN today. Tensions are running high in the psytrance subreddit this week. Psytrance is very popular among Israeli settlers, perhaps because many visit Goa after completing their military service.
- leptons 3y agoThe festival in Israel where 250 people were murdered by Palestinians while they were dancing in peace was a Psy Trance festival. One of the greatest Psy Trance bands of all time, Astral Projection, was supposed to play at the festival. You're right that tensions are running high. This was an absolute pogrom on a peace loving community that many people (including myself) have been a part of for 40+ years. Suggesting that "tensions are running high" is the understatement of the year.
- cyclecount 3y agoA survivor of this attack claims that IDF open-fired on the hostages https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861 https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-t...
- exodust 3y agoThat publication is dripping in propaganda. > "It happened when Israeli forces engaged in fierce gun battles with Palestinian fighters in Kibbutz Be’eri and fired indiscriminately at both the fighters and their Israeli prisoners." "terrorists took civilian hostages", has become "fighters took prisoners". That is the wheels of propaganda spinning. > "...said that prior to that, she and other civilians had been held by the Palestinians for several hours and treated “humanely.” She had fled the nearby “Nova” rave" Well sure, all I'd be talking about is the nice treatment of my captors too, who just slaughtered 250 of my fellow ravers. They offered tea and cake it was nice.
- swayvil 3y agoThis is the second such guide to ambient-vicinity I've seen here today. But big names. Boards of Canada. Tycho. Casino vs Japan. Amboy. Brian Eno... I do not see them in their lists. Where do they come in?
- minicoz 3y agoThey aren't under the psytrance tree. The author does include chillout. The artists you listed are more electronic, so down tempo, shoegaze, electronic.
- bandrami 3y agoMan this takes me back to Goa in the 90s. It was just about the only place that would book Russian DJs, so it was the only place where reel-to-reel DJing was better known than vinyl. It's amazing to see what people have done with the style in the intervening decades, but for me nothing beats the old tunes from the beach parties.
- amanaplanacanal 3y agoA little bummed not to see Blue Planet Corporation in there.
- duped 3y agoSomething not said explicitly but to me, is the characteristic sound of psy-x is the synth bass line. It's a very simple sound that you can make in any subtractive synth - you start with a single saw, add a lowpass filter, and instead of using the amplitude envelope to control the dynamics or "pluck" of the sound you modulate the cutoff of the filter by an envelope with a very short attack, quick decay, and low or zero sustain. If you're fancy you can use a stepper or lfo sync'd to 16th notes to do the same thing instead of programming loops of 16th notes. And of course, you sidechain compress that with the kick to get the pumping sound. That's how you get the deep vibe of a psy track that resonates in the club at 2am. That's just the basics. The really good tracks find ways to make it crazy, like modulating the decay of the filter envelope with velocity of the notes and then adding velocity curves to create dynamics with the baseline, or adding a reverb send and automating the send level as you build up to the end of a phrase. Or taking the basic idea (a plucky bass with sixteenth notes) and changing how the pluck is defined via an FM synth, or overdrive, or frequency shift, and so on. It's such a simple sound that can be driven to weird places.
- stavros 3y agoAh yes, of course.
- specproc 3y agoThis is what we're here for.
- stavros 3y agoDefinitely, but I can still joke about how I didn't understand anything from a comment on something I have no experience with.
- boredemployee 3y agoIt's called (I think) sound design. Changing parameters of a sound wave like filters, resonance, envelope, cutoff, etc, you can achieve desired sounds (you can do that using a real synthesizer or a virtual one). In this case they're explaining how to make a bass sound (which is in the lower frequency of the spectrum)
- jerrygoyal 3y agoI prefer psychill and chillout over lofi for work/chill.
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- codexb 3y agoRelevant xkcd - https://xkcd.com/1095/ https://xkcd.com/1095/
- unixhero 3y agoDimension 5, read the reviews, https://www.discogs.com/release/145286-Dimension-5-Transdimensional https://www.discogs.com/release/145286-Dimension-5-Transdime... eg: Wotzenknecht 1 Dec 2009 "An old classic, fortunately repressed thanks to Suntrip Records. What defines a classic goa record ? 1) Simplicity over complexity Take that, new-schoolers. Hear how simple the dreamy and uplifting "Deep Space 5D" is. Learn how to use space and time instead of adding huge layers of ultra-complex melodies one atop each other, then drowning everything into an ocean of reverb. Learn to know how the mind reacts to certain sound and patterns - learn buddhism. 2) A universe in each track Ten tracks, ten unique moods. From cosmic mysticism to numbing bliss, notwithstanding the mind-fucking psychotropic experiences of both "Omega Centaurus" and the incredible "Harmonic Convergence". The melodies stay in memory for a long time, and for nothing in the world would I let them flow away. 3) An ending (Ascent) No, this has nothing to do with Brian Eno. Or does it ? Learn that a downtempo track is not a pitched-down full-on stomper: again, it has to tell a story of its own. Remember how the best Transwave tracks always were their slowest one ? Speed is a measure, not a goal. "Flow" is beautiful, oneiric and chilling to the point of being terribly addictive. This may sound paradoxical, but classic records often define their own rules. A tip to remember. "Transdimensional" is unique although no other album could define more flawlessly what goa trance is about. Yes, they are other classics out there - but guess what ? They use their own rules as well. It's no use trying to catch their spirit these days - they are already way beyond stars, between past and timeless hyperspace."
- intellix 3y agoI've been listening to Infected Mushroom daily for about 15+ years, mostly on repeat and I love it (obviously). My problem is that I just can't find similar music. People will say: "Oh I like psy too" and then recommend various artists of which the music sounds very repetitive to me (it's not just 5 minutes of dunalun) One of the things I feel sets them apart (at least in for example in their best works) is that they're very complex tracks that feel like you're going on a journey where they start with a theme and then revisit it later in the track. I was excited to see this site cause I'd maybe finally understand what subgenre I need to search in specifically but they weren't mentioned even once which is strange since they're the most successful psy artist of all time. So what sub genre do they fit into and what else can I listen to?
- blub 3y agoBack when I was listening to Goa/Psy, I liked Infected Mushroom, Juno Reactor, Hallucinogen, Cosma and Shpongle. I also liked the chill Mystery of the Yeti albums. Have no clue who most of the artist on the topic website are. Sean Tyas’ Matter of Time’s quite nice, but aggressive.
- antupis 3y agoThey kinda spinned their own genre 2004- most similar stuff what I kind know is shpongle(more downtempo) and Suomisaundi(own psy subgenre, weird stuff from Finnish artists)
- Prcmaker 3y agoI remembered Shpongle earlier this year, after not even thinking of them for the better part of a decade. The work clean room hasn't been the same since. It's a welcome respite from pop radio in the main workshop.
- jona-f 3y agoYes, I feel the same. For me it was Infected Mushrooms and Shpongle. I didn't have 15+ years of tenacity though. So try Shpongle if you don't know them yet. Back in the day, i moved from listening to them all the time to listening to Igorrr (breakcore) all the time.
- uoaei 3y agoPsytrance is basically Zumba, but only in nighttime forest settings while quite high on mushrooms. I learned I like psytrance this summer.
- jesperlang 3y agoI was a psytrance DJ through much of the 00s and what a wonderful and diverse genre this is :) It takes some time getting used to though. My first listening experience I basically denounced it as "too hard" and noisy but my general love for electronic music made me keep listening and all of a sudden I was hooked. I listened to and played mostly goa-trance due to its very melodic nature, it really has something unique with its focus on melody (with non-western scales) and not just squeeky and strange sounds (which I do like). The explosion of "Full-on" in the mid 00s made me loose interest and it dominated the parties I went to and played at. Full on has this particular annoying feature of being, yes full on, hardly any buildups just cheap, cheesy breaks and "in your face" to please the fistbumping crowd. I still occasionally listen when there is an interesting release but this is mainly a fading memory from my youth.. This is in general a great guide, very impressive! I mean it even includes Suomisaundi (one of my favourites) which is such a small subsub-genre, back in the days it encompassed maybe a handful of artists on 1-2 record labels. The sometimes narrow BPM ranges I'd say you can ignore. The genre is very experimental so you can have pretty much any of the faster sub-genres speed down and then just call it "* chill". This was often the case when albums were made in the 00s, that an artist would end with a chill track, many times these were their best outputs and sometimes lead to new side projects. I don't want to pick on the song selection but there is at least one major artist missing here. Shpongle is probably the most successful psychill artist of all time and one of my most powerful musical experiences of any genre. Start with "Tales of the inexpressible" and work your way through their catalog :)
- pcthrowaway 3y agoI'd recommend starting with "Are you Shpongled" personally. More than Shpongle missing, I would have expected a sample from Hallucinogen (also Simon Posford's project) which predates Shpongle by a few years, and was at the forefront of the wave of Goa as it spilled over to the western world in its nascent years
- sharadov 3y agoI agree about full on, that killed it for me in the parties that I was going to in 2004/2005. I loves the melodic old school goa psytrance, but all everyone seemed to want was that.
- ravirajx7 3y agoThere are so many excellent examples out there. Personally, I love tracks like https://on.soundcloud.com/aV91kefmnviRJwxg7 https://on.soundcloud.com/aV91kefmnviRJwxg7
- apt-get 3y agoAs other people have said, it's a shame that so much of psytrance relegates itself to being "electronic dance music", playing off the same clichés and subdividing itself so much such that the most minute production details are catalogued. While you could reasonably say that about any electronic genre, Psytrance really ups the level of having any given median track sounding indistinguishable. Yeah, the sound design experimentations are cool; yeah, it's a good sound... but I wish I would actually remember it for _something_ specific it does well. In general, I think I miss the songwriting aspect most. Infected Mushroom really nailed it, which is why they're so popular. Nowadays, I can only find the Japanese doujin music scene among those that regularly mix and match psytrance with various other genres. A few other recs going more in that direction: - Talpa (https://sundancerecords.bandcamp.com/album/when-the-somberness-becomes-a-game https://sundancerecords.bandcamp.com/album/when-the-somberne...) - Jerico's Law (https://juno909.bandcamp.com/album/another-law https://juno909.bandcamp.com/album/another-law) - Migma Shelter (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l3dfWAOgloDDdev-nBt-kWtQPs-0-BbrQ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l3dfWAOgloDDde... -- j-pop psytrance!) - Hilight Tribe (https://hilighttribe.bandcamp.com/album/temple-of-light https://hilighttribe.bandcamp.com/album/temple-of-light) - Koxbox (https://koxboxmemo604.bandcamp.com/album/the-great-unknown https://koxboxmemo604.bandcamp.com/album/the-great-unknown) - Hallucinogen (https://hallucinogenmusic.bandcamp.com/album/the-lone-deranger https://hallucinogenmusic.bandcamp.com/album/the-lone-derang...) - And finally, the best hi-tech work I've ever heard. Sephax - Electric Currents (https://alice-drecords.bandcamp.com/album/sephax-electric-currents https://alice-drecords.bandcamp.com/album/sephax-electric-cu...)
- klabb3 3y ago> playing off the same clichés and subdividing itself so much such that the most minute production details are catalogued Agreed. It’s unnecessary and in my experience the music creators themselves dislike it. It’s largely the hobby of stamp collector and trivia-oriented minds who are inhibited in enjoying the music itself. That said, the terminology can be useful for liberal associative descriptions. But humans love strict hierarchical taxonomies, stuffing artists into single buckets.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
- bravura 3y agoI really enjoyed reading Ishkur's hyper-precise, super narrowly focused description of the trance genre, posted again yesterday (https://music.ishkur.com/ https://music.ishkur.com/). I wanted to share it in to see how others react to it. genre: Trance also: Trance scene: Trance emergence: early 90s Trance is the second most misattributed genre in all of electronic music (after Techno). If I asked you to give me a list of the best Trance DJs, all of them would be wrong. Because 1) You shouldn't have a concept of "best Trance DJs" and 2) Unless you have a copy of Harthouse or Eye Q's early catalogue on vinyl you probably don't know any actual Trance DJs. You probably don't know what Trance is either. So what, exactly, is Trance and where did it come from? As direct as I can put it: Trance was an offshoot of German EBM in the late 80s and early 90s and was probably coined in 1991 by Mark Reeder of MFS Records (although the word had been bandied about for several years before then). And we know this because he tells us as such in this 1993 documentary about the early Trance scene: That first literal needle drop is Secret Knowledge - Sugar Daddy -- a "fine example of trance music". Trance proper is a term that only applies to this short-lived style of music in Germany and the UK (and to a lesser extent the US) before it got ripped apart and pulled in different directions for different reasons, mangling its reputation beyond recognition. And that is all Trance should refer to and nothing else. The principle behind Trance was the unresolved, infinite track, with interweaving elements and layers and a ceaseless beat carrying it along like a metronome. Like a lot of early electronic music (and like all good electronic music), Trance borrowed heavily from the aesthetics of Minimalism and it disdained the usage of the dull verse-bridge-chorus format of pop songcraft. In the hands of a competent DJ Trance sounds like one long song, unceasing and unwavering, all night long. A single arpeggiating synth lead with phaser sweeps is all it really needs. That's not to say that Trance does not have hooks or melodies, or even anthems of the next-day-washing-the-dishes-whistling-to-yourself variety, or that it should not have breakdowns. They're just not supposed to dominate Trance to an insufferable extent. Trance is best when it lives up to its namesake: It entrances you. Anything else it tries to do (like make you cheer on the douche jockey or put your arms in the air) is fucking offensive. Unfortunately there is a common tendency among critics and historians to find a number of similar attributes in a specific media, group them into a genre, and then go back in time and retcon other things with those attributes as the same genre despite the fact that the people in those eras did not and would not have called it that. This happens a lot in things like books and movies (for instance: the Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope coined in 2007 and then retconned to include Audrey Hepburn movies from 50 years ago) and it also happens in music. And in electronic music's case it has happened most often with Trance. There are a lot of things in the past that have been called proto-Trance or indicated as having a great influence on Trance, from Giorgio Moroder's galloping synths to the electric body buzz of Liaisons Dangereuses to the experimental minimalism of Pink Floyd - On The Run to even some Trance forerunners like Psychic TV or The KLF. But none of those are really Trance. There is also a tendency among music magazines and fans to continuously call something that someone made Trance because they previously made Trance even though it's clearly evident that they have long since moved on from the sound and have no interest in returning to it, like Ferry Corsten's Electrohouse dumbassery, or whatever stupid shit Armin is trying to do, or Tiesto's pitiful attempts at trying to make Trouse happen. But none of those are really Trance either. This is also why you should stop following these dipshits like they're rock stars. Listen to Trance because you like Trance, not because you hero worship Dutch superdorks. And then there are the watered down pop offshoots of Trance (including Eurotrance and Vocal Trance) that you often hear in clothing stores at the mall. None of that is Trance either. That's not what this genre is. Ferry, Armin, and Tiesto are not here. Listen to what real Trance should sound like. Trance as a concept was so fragile it obviously could not and did not last. As with most things in electronic music, things go to shit when the Dutch get hold of it. The descendents of Trance -- Progressive Trance, Hard Dance, Psy Trance, Eurotrance -- all sold it down the river in their own unique way. When I think of pure Trance music, I really don't think of anything past 1994. There are some exceptions but generally all Trance music has been commercial pop drivel since the late 90s. I blame Oakenfold. Ish.
- dostick 3y agoWhere is Underworld on music map in relation to this genre?
- Shadowmist 3y agoInvisible.
- matt_j 3y agoUnderworld is usually closer to techno/tech-house than trance although I feel trying to fit Underworld into any genre is a disservice. They are masters of their own sound and a class act!
- AYBABTME 3y agoSomething strange is how prevalent listening to trance music seems to be amongst people doing deep work or study. I personally get my best work done when there's a good trance mix and no voice/intelligible conversation. I almost can't solve the harder types of problems if I'm not listening to trance.
- tanepiper 3y agoWhen I was 10 we got a CD player and one of the first CDs I owned - I bought a music magazine with a free cover disk - it happened to be the entire The Lone Deranger by Hallucinogen - through most of my teens I didn't really have a preference, but when I got to 18 I discovered clubs, and it likely had an effect on me liking techno and PsyTrance at the time which I prefered. In 2001 I spent a year in The Netherlands and went to warehouse parties in the North, at that time abandoned warehouses (also at that time Amsterdam was full of squats which are now > €1m flats) - it was both weird and an amazing time.
- lynx23 3y agoThe Lone Deranger was also one of my first (Goa) CDs. Simon Posford is pretty much a hero of the scene. Later found Shpongle and was pretty amazed that is the same guy. Also check out the Younger Brother project, also by him.
- globalise83 3y agoHaving grown up with psytrance, I find that 25 years later the modern stuff just sounds like a cheap, low-effort pastiche of what psytrance used to be. And... I just became my Dad.
- TonyTrapp 3y agoHappens probably to anyone loving a genre for an extended amount of time. Trance, Drum & Bass, Psytrance, you hear that sentiment everywhere.
- meow_cat 3y agoI really wonder if this is 1) Nostalgia.Obviously, the first tracks you heard were your introduction to the genre, so they will have emotional value. 2) First-mover advantage, for the lack of a better word. Obviously you perceive every new track t_i in the context of t_{0..i-1} that you already know. Maybe track t_443, which sounds cheap and commercial now, would have sounded innovative if you heard it as t_33? 3) Genre saturation. How many truly new tracks can be done in psytrance (or any other specific genre) while still being psytrance, before every track sounds like one that was done before? I don't envy the poor souls trying to express individuality in established, specialized genres. I also wonder whether we could use deep learning to learn representations unbiased by our own history with the genres, and analyze this in a more unbiased way. But I'm also sure you can make the model say whatever you want if you bend the data the right way :)
- Fnoord 3y agoMaybe, I don't think so. The first time I heard goa trance it was in 90s, Astral Projection. It was too weird for me. I couldn't stand it! Then in the early 00s I got introduced to psytrance. I started listening to it. Then I refound my love for goa trance (see my other post for examples) and I fell in love. It was an exciting time for me. I fell in love with two women, I used my first time MDMA and mushrooms later on, all of this while I learned to know this fantastic genre. One could argue it was related to my first listening of AP. But I don't think I heard MWNN before, and I instantly loved it, and he has a very distinctive style. If you take Shakta, he's also made psytance, same with Miranda, MWNN, AP, etc etc but I don't like it. Also, back in the 90s I listened to a lot of progressive trance as well (the usual names: Paul Oakenfold, Paul van Dyk, stuff mixed by Tiesto, Ferry Corsten, etc etc). How would you explain that? Plus I like a lot more electronic music, mostly (but not solely) from 90s. I even like some psydub/psybient. But psytance? Nope. Well, barely.
- VeejayRampay 3y agothe number of arbitrarily segmented subgenres is absolutely ridiculous and hints at a highly snobbish musical genre
- airtonix 3y ago[dead]
- hambos22 3y agoPsytrance (specifically psychedelic, goa, progressive & minimal) is one of the few genres that can keep me in the zone for many hours. It feels like I'm in a creativity bubble connecting dots from everywhere, riding the chain of thought without interruptions. Combine that with a good pair of headphones (Sony wh-1000xm5) and a biscuit edible I find myself coding and VIMing like playing the piano. Current favorite artist: DJ Bim & Drukverdeler https://open.spotify.com/artist/1mpYUkGqPoE5jZYUENa8Ig?si=1M56vlsOQ2yM75ntIjybAw https://open.spotify.com/artist/1mpYUkGqPoE5jZYUENa8Ig?si=1M...
- pmlnr 3y agoI'll never understand the fascination with naming/categorizing music into thinner and thinner things. There are artists like Neurotech out there who don't care about this, and those are by far the best music available. EDIT I'm still glad for this site to recommend artists, that is a nice thing to do.
- stinos 3y agoI'll never understand the fascination with naming/categorizing music into thinner and thinner things While I'm generally not a fan of trying to cram things into single boxes just for the sake of it, let alone have discussiona about which is which, it does really help to have categories. Maybe not too thin, ok, but still. Simple example: last weekend some local bands were playing and we were talking about whether or not to go. So instead of looking them up on the internet (if they were even to be found already), I could just ask the organizer to give me a general idea of the style. If they say 'one is goregrind, the other melodic death metal and the last one fairly standard grindcore' then we know pretty much what to expect. Same with psytrance: I really like when flyers simply state which of the various genres it roughly is. Like, if it's labelled as old-school goa trance then it's almost a gurantee for me I'll be able to completely lose my mind there, as opposed to hi-tech which I find interesting but isn't hours-long party material for me.
- myth_drannon 3y agoWhy is there a sudden interest in psytrance right now? Is it because of terror attack on the music festival in Israel?
- larodi 3y agoIt’s not sudden, it is perhaps only that psy* was not cool in your city for few years and is again. I don’t think interest in trance music ever ceased…
- vips7L 3y agoTrance in general is on its way back. Even Tiesto just put a trance track out again.
- mikrl 3y agoTrance Pop has been big for a few years. Career Boy by Dorian Electra comes to mind but there are more. Happy hardcore had a resurgence in 2021-2022 which is still going.
- larodi 3y agoInterestingly this misses one psy genre of paramount importance - the PsyDub. Hallucinogen in Dub by Ott, and the Dub Trees project for example to name a few. There is a recent dubstep/psydub crossover which sounds very promising. Also I would add what is called mental techno in this list, even though it’s more on the acid side of things.
- rpickering 3y agoI came here for this comment! Always loved that psy dub sound (also OTT - Blumenkraft, and Nagual Sound Experiment's Invisible Movements) and particularly the hybrids that have come out of it recently. Most 'classic' psy trance stuff I find pretty boring to be honest. Globular has done some distinctly psy dub albums in the last few years. And then on the bass/dubstep side, I'm hearing psy influences in releases by Om Unit (e.g. Acid Dub Studies) and also some of DjRUM's stuff.
- larodi 3y agoIndeed, uncle Om is turning back to acid sounds (not so much psychedelic), but I totally agree that psydub is the logical progression for the psy* genres (don't kill me goa ppl, pls). to me the real progress in the psychedelic sounds is techno dub - a true psychedelic genre for the 21ct century. psytrance/progressive trance seem too 90s in composition and aesthetics to me.
- Liquix 3y agoAnyone who enjoys Ott may also want to check out Cosmic Trigger [0] and/or Globular [1] https://shponglemusic.bandcamp.com/album/shpongle-remixed-by-cosmic-trigger https://shponglemusic.bandcamp.com/album/shpongle-remixed-by... https://globular.bandcamp.com/album/long-grass-for-small-frogs https://globular.bandcamp.com/album/long-grass-for-small-fro...
- tsukurimashou 3y agodowntempo as well
- hdbxhhsbs 3y ago[flagged]
- ykonstant 3y agoJust wanted to thank the submitter and the website creator for this lovely resource. I love the selection; it led me to some high quality music. It is hard to find among the mass-produced beats made to assemble "10 hours amazing treynsbibouent" yt videos.
- singingfish 3y agoI was hoping for more music theory.
- Theofrastus 3y agoAll those different subgenres are quite daunting as a newcomer. I've listened to songs labelled as “Psytrance” by Spotify, though I couldn't pinpoint the subgenre after listening to the examples provided by the guide. For example, what would the song “Shiva Style, Pt. 2” by Mandragora classify as (if it counts as Psytrance)?
- kinnth 3y agoI love this guide, I just absolutely detest psytrance :( Of all the dance genres available I am always frustrated that it's more popular than so many other great ones!
- tinix 3y agoI miss ektoplazm...
- echelon_musk 3y agoThe site is still online [0] although there haven't been any new releases since 2018. The site's FLAC releases have been preserved on archive.org [1] for posterity should it ever go offline. [0] https://ektoplazm.com/ https://ektoplazm.com/ [1] https://archive.org/details/ektoplazm-flac https://archive.org/details/ektoplazm-flac
- tinix 3y agooh wow i built a script years ago to rip it but basilisk asked not to use up all his bandwidth and offered to let me send him a hard drive for backup but i never got around to it... glad to know it's preserved thanks for the tip!
- gHA5 3y agoI'm glad to see Wizzy Noise on the recommendations for Full On Psytrance. Their remix of Flasback by GMS is the best melodic buildup Full On song I've ever listened to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PAoapibFWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PAoapibFWI
- gHA5 3y agoFor Astrix, check out "Sex Style" from the album "Artcore": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plcj3hKRxec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plcj3hKRxec
- brap 3y agoThis very, very cool and comprehensive! Notably missing influential artists: GMS, 1200 Micrograms, Shpongle, Infected Mushroom, Captain Hook, Ott… I probably forgot quite a few
- jononomo 3y agoEnvision Festival in Costa Rica is coming up -- March 4th to 11th in Costa Rica. It is an absolutely epic psytrance festival on the beach in a tropical jungle with the most beautiful people in the world. https://www.envisionfestival.com https://www.envisionfestival.com
- slicktux 3y agoGreat breakdown of the genres! DI.fm has good amount of psytrance genres…
- Temporary_31337 3y agoThe main feature of psytrance music is the copious amount of psychedelics you're supposed to consume to enjoy it.
- portpecos 3y agoIt may have started that way, but I enjoy it sober :). Hopefully our world doesn’t always need intoxicants to enjoy this style? But if you want to enjoy the intoxicants for the sake of the intoxicants, by all means!
- portpecos 3y agoWow!!! Now make one for Industrial/Goth, one of the earliest forms of EDM according to Iskur’s guide to EDM. I’d like to hear samples of the various sub genres, synth, future pop, EBM, etc. PLEASE!!
- harel 3y agoI'm mostly surprised that a post about psytrance gets over 400 upvotes on HN. I'm a former (goa/psy) trance producer (in another life and century), and recently coming back to the world of producing. Maybe I'm stuck in the 90s, but it still feels to me like that "underground" sound we dance in the forest or desert to. But nope - 400+ upvotes on HN means it's a lot less underground than it is in my head, and even though the millennium was just "2 years ago" it seems like there was a lot of progress in those "couple years".
- blackhaz 3y agoSame feeling here... Really surprised there are so many upvotes here. Well, the fact that we now have a vocal and even political psytrance only says that this is now part of the pop culture. And the sound has changed as well. Today's music is, well, uhm, different from what was produced back in the DAT tape era...
- harel 3y agoI kinda miss the DAT days. There was a certain aura around music and it's un-availability that is missing today when everything is available.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoVocal psytrance goes all the way back to the 1990s. Lost Tribes’ "Gamemaster" was released in what, 1998?
- pseudonamed 3y agoI’m an engineer who has enjoyed psytrance since the 90's and I’ve sometimes wondered how the two relate, if at all. In some aspects psytrance could be better described as sculpture in motion rather than music. The process of making it also feels more like sculpture than the live, in the moment creation of music on an instrument. Regarding the two, I visualise psytrance as form, motion, colour, etc., with a lot of slowly shifting, but often nested, repetition much in the same way I visualise computational processes.
- distantsounds 3y ago> control-f "infected mushroom" no results does this person even know what psytrance is? http://music.ishkur.com/?query=PsychedelicTrance http://music.ishkur.com/?query=PsychedelicTrance Here is a better breakdown of the genre, by an overly opinionated producer who has been cataloging electronic music styles for decades
- Configure0251 3y agoAnd yet from that (great) reference: "If you're waiting for me to say something about Juno Reactor, Hallucinogen or Infected Mushroom, the truth is I find their music to be middle of the pack. I understand they are very popular and they were the introduction to the world of Psy Trance for a lot of people so they win a lot of hearts and minds through first impressions. But the scene is massive with thousands of labels and artists around the world, and I find their contributions to be very ignorable. They aren't a good representation of what's actually out there."
- jjrh 3y agoishkur's guide is a really awesome resource for discovering electronic music.
- sixQuarks 3y agoAnyone got recommendations on dj sets that are more like offbeat psytrance but contain big drops that make you want to dance?
- DoodahMan 3y agooh man do i love to see psytrance pop up on HN! opened this while wearing my Shpongle hoodie from 2006, hah! i've been hooked ever since i first heard Astral Projection in the early 00's, though i stopped listening as much when full-on took over, when IM "sold out", when the music became a little lifeless for lack of better wording. there is only one other genre of music that gives me the same feelings of freedom, exploration, and adventure as psytrance: jam bands like the Dead, Phish, etc. which isn't strange if you think about the history of goa/psytrance, where such psychedelic rock was spun for the hippies before this other-worldy beep boop stuff was created. reckon it all comes from the same source, cut from the same cloth. i miss isratrance. psyshop. i miss going to shows in the forest for a weekend and the freedom of it all. walk around naked if you want, it's nothing but love! i'm going to share some artists and songs that i haven't seen listed yet from some other sub-genres of this weird music: - Psykovsky (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onYzuQUmQzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onYzuQUmQzo) caution: this one is relentless! - Eat Static (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzCjkXiVAdM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzCjkXiVAdM) - Planet B.E.N (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BadJg0pBwU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BadJg0pBwU0) - Hux Flux (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIO9DFmAOYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIO9DFmAOYs) - Derango (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fw7meaL83Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fw7meaL83Q) - Etnica (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A47EaYXcgnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A47EaYXcgnk) - The Antidote (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUf6aYUW3H4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUf6aYUW3H4) ... man this post sent me back to high school. thank you for the nostalgia trip! i really wish the parties near me were still happening. when isratrance died i lost touch with the scene. everyone moved to facebook. i really, really miss it. i had a lot of fun collaborating with folks on isra, bouncing project files and stems back and forth. especially the swedes, those crazy forest folks :) reckon this winter i should dust off the gear. take care HN & much love.
- sharadov 3y agoGoa trance was the sub-genre of psytrance that I really loved in the early 2000s. Astral Projection, Infected Mushroom, Neuromotor, Goa Gil. '99 I was in Goa, when everyone thought that Y2K was the end of the world! Can still remember 25 thousand people dancing on the beach in Anjuna! It was quite an experience! Heck I was at one gig where Goa Gil played a set straight for 24 hrs! Bom Shankar!!
- justaj 3y agoNot sure I agree with this. Psytrance _is_ Psychedelic Trance. Not sure why there is a separate genre for it. Goa Trance is part of this for example, as well as Forest Psy. I feel like it tries to define and narrow big overarching genres like that.
- pmarreck 3y agoWhere is Infected Mushroom here?
- burnsaga 3y agoVery cool. Would love to see this for other (closely related) genres e.g. Jungle, Drum n Bass, House, etc.