7 ms·

Windows 12 May Require a Subscription

45 points by zolbrek 3y ago

gjsman-1000 3y ago
Wasn’t this debunked already? Windows will almost certainly not require a subscription. However, certain new AI features might due to server costs; and licensing Windows as a subscription for those features is the only way that makes any sense in an Enterprise. Home users most likely can, and will, use Microsoft Accounts to pay which obviously isn’t an option in a corporate setting.
- Closi 3y ago
  It could make sense if Windows had a subscription for enterprise, and they offered things like SaaS-level support for your corporate Windows installs (i.e. I think there is probably a version of this that could provide genuine value to both Microsoft and enterprise customers). Don't think many consumers would stomach the charge, so suspect it would possibly be different on the home side.
  - layer8 3y ago
    They could integrate the Windows subscription into the existing Microsoft 365 subscription, and then slowly lock down Windows so that it becomes more and more difficult to use it without Microsoft 365, similar to how they make it ever more difficult to use Windows without a Microsoft account. And slowly increase pricing for Microsoft 365, of course. And you get the first year free with a new PC. Otherwise Windows degrades to the Starter edition.
- gruez 3y ago
  > Wasn’t this debunked already? yep. https://www.neowin.net/news/a-new-report-denies-rumors-of-a-subscription-based-windows-12/ https://www.neowin.net/news/a-new-report-denies-rumors-of-a-...
- tonyhart7 3y ago
  I mean is already happening in office and I doubt that wouldn't happen to windows they know most consumer wouldn't want to pay it but Enterprise and Pro level consumer ???? uuhhh that where the money come from
matteoraso 3y ago
Windows seems to become more and more anti-consumer every single day. That being said, I'm not convinced that Microsoft would push things quite so far, considering how easy it's becoming for users to switch to Linux. On the other hand, people were probably saying the same thing when Microsoft started putting ads in the OS, so what do I know?
- lordfrito 3y ago
  My next computer will be Linux. It's time. I can't follow where Microsoft is going any longer. Problwm is a few legacy windows apps I rely on, plus my large gaming collection. It didn't have to come to this. Sigh
- cesarb 3y ago
  > That being said, I'm not convinced that Microsoft would push things quite so far, considering how easy it's becoming for users to switch to Linux. Unfortunately, Microsoft is in a position where they can make it harder for users to switch to Linux, due to their control over SecureBoot: they can mandate that disabling SecureBoot or adding a custom key be forbidden, like they did on ARM (https://softwarefreedom.org/blog/2012/jan/12/microsoft-confirms-UEFI-fears-locks-down-ARM/ https://softwarefreedom.org/blog/2012/jan/12/microsoft-confi...).
- ssnistfajen 3y ago
  The barrier to switching to Linux is no longer present for anyone with basic IT knowledge, but Windows didn't get its market share by appealing to that demographic. As long as Linux is not the default installed OS for off-the-shelf computers like Windows currently is, it won't be able to capture the lions' share of Windows' userbase. Unfortunately I don't think any Linux distribution has the commercial/litigation power to stand up to Microsoft on that aspect. Satya won't making heart gestures about Linux anymore the moment he realizes someone is actually coming to eat Microsoft's lunch.
danjc 3y ago
Entrance to the park is free, it's the rides that you pay for.
andrewstuart 3y ago
Microsoft COULD go more open, less restrictive, less money grabbing, with Windows, look away while little people get away with piracy of windows, resulting in people installing it on everything everywhere, a huge user base and “success”. Instead, MS is imposing hardware restrictions, requiring accounts, requiring subscriptions, polluting it with advertising. As a result Windows will only lessen over time, fewer will install it, people will avoid it, stay in what they’ve got. This is Microsoft’s genius “strategy” for Windows - squeeze - and make people resentful and disinterested instead of making Windows an exciting “must have”. Who is it at Microsoft makes such decisions? I’m not running Windows 11 for these reasons and same thing for 12.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  Windows 11 pushed me into "My Mac is my primary computer, I use my PC for things I can't do on my Mac." Windows 12 will finally push me into Linux.
  - andrewstuart 3y ago
    Desktop Linux is in my personal opinion unusable compared to Windows and MacOS. I acknowledge there are those who feel otherwise. Every time I try desktop Linux I get rid of it when it does not even have copy and paste consistently implemented and compatible with Mac/Windows copy paste. This is the absolute most basic minimal thing a desktop needs to implement because it’s what users do every 60 seconds. I’m not pressing three keys to copy, sorry. Copy and paste was invented at Xerox PARC in the 1970s, and desktop Linux still hasn’t worked it out. And then there’s the visual and look and feel sense that it was made by Dr Frankenstein. Windows suffers from this too but not like Linux which is awful.
    - choilive 3y ago
      Been feeling the same way for the past 15 years. Desktop Linux has certainly gotten better, but its not even at a Windows XP level of usability and feels remarkably stagnant.
jkellermann 3y ago
I couldn't care less, I'll just file a day of vacation for 2024-05-12 then...
mjevans 3y ago
This rent-seeking subscription BS has got to stop. It's just another way of raising the price by forcing everyone to constantly pay money and more money over the lifetime of a product.
snickerbockers 3y ago
this is the same corporation that considers it "fair use" when their LLM copies code from github without obeying the terms of the license so you shouldn't feel guilty at all about pirating windows.
- Hammershaft 3y ago
  Frankly I'd rather pay a subscription for a quality operating system that meaningfully improves over time then get a free one that feeds me ads, wastes my time, and frustrates me. I'm just skeptical MS is capable of delivering on a higher quality OS.
  - readams 3y ago
    Unfortunately I think what we'll get is an operating system that you pay for and that feeds you ads and wastes your time. Both are possible!
  - ssnistfajen 3y ago
    Why not require a subscription and then still show ads to subscribers? It's what the leeches I mean shareholders must've wanted.
    - Tommstein 3y ago
      Which is exactly what will happen.
    - snickerbockers 3y ago
      They can even take a page out of paramount+'s book by charging extra for an "ad-free" tier that merely shows you less ads than the other tiers.
  - Tommstein 3y ago
    > Frankly I'd rather pay a subscription for a quality operating system that meaningfully improves over time then get a free one that feeds me ads, wastes my time, and frustrates me. This is Windows we're talking about, you will pay for the former and receive the latter.
stainablesteel 3y ago
i'm skeptical of messages like this, its not even out yet but lol
dboreham 3y ago
MBAs continuing to eat the world.
achrono 3y ago
Here's a seemingly ridiculous but serious/non-rhetorical question: other than staying up to date with more efficient hardware, what feature or capability does Windows 11 have that Windows 98 did not? OneDrive? BitLocker? ... Cortana? The difference between the sum of Windows licensing fees you've paid through the years and the cost of the Windows 98 license is the price you've paid to stay updated. Considering the fact that you cannot use Windows 98 today other than as a historical curiosity, I feel like what we're paying for is actually not software but a sort of annual (or triennial) ransom.
- eropple 3y ago
  This is just off the top of my head, but let's give it a go. Security, across all axes you'd care to evaluate. Actually-working multiprocessing, including across big/little architectures. SxS. A graphics subsystem that doesn't torpedo the computer if something goes wrong (and which continues to improve, e.g. DirectStorage). WSL2. WSA. BitLocker. Solid-state TRIM. Multiple desktops/task view. Aero Snap/Peek. The user-facing bits are emphatically not my favorite, but, even if I spotted you Windows 2000 so that you were on the NT kernel, there's a ton of stuff that's improved even from version to version, let alone over a twenty year gap.
  - kgabis 3y ago
    All right, but apart from that, what have the Romans ever done for us? /s
    - eropple 3y ago
      Let us use more than 4GB of RAM?
- riffraff 3y ago
  Windows 98 was vastly less stable and secure than its successors. When it crashed you may also get a screwed file system since there was no journaling. It was effectively single user and passwords were kept in a substantially rot13 user readable file. I have not used windows in fifteen years or so, but already XP was miles ahead of 98.
buro9 3y ago
It's for copilot which they believe is the future of everything. And can be disabled in Pro via group policy https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/manage-windows-copilot https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/...
taspeotis 3y ago
Fake news, click the first link; Neowin has updated their article. https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-might-want-to-be-making-windows-12-a-subscription-os-suggests-leak/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-might-want-to-be-makin...
- UberFly 3y ago
  The whole story does seem pretty speculative at this point. They're not going off much.
spandextwins 3y ago
All that AI and all that great stuff they're doing has a cost. Bill Gates himself wrote software shouldn't be free. And if you look at all the great stuff he's doing in the world today, I'd gladly give him more.
tortoise_in 3y ago
Another reason it's with you switch to Linux.
ssnistfajen 3y ago
If true, this could be one of the most significant propelling forces to encourage Linux desktop adoption in recent decades. All we need is for OEMs to strike deals with major Linux distributions, and for at least one distribution to hold their nose and make a further dumbed down version of Linux that can be installed and used with zero user configuration like Windows 11 currently is.
UberFly 3y ago
The concept doesn't make sense. So if someone stops paying what? They quit sending security updates? No more feature updates isn't a big enough carrot to keep paying for many. No way they'll lock you out of your OS. Dubious reporting.
vermaden 3y ago
That is very good news :)
Tommstein 3y ago
Linux remains 100% free in all ways.
Swisstone 3y ago
Speculative articles such as this one make no sense, Windows Subscription Activation is not something new... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/windows-10-subscription-activation https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/windows...
JohnDeHope 3y ago
Linux in 2024 may run DirectX games well enough.
butz 3y ago
Dear Windows users, think real hard if you still want to be abused by developer of your OS. Please try out Linux. We have cookies, but you have to make them yourselves.

45 points by zolbrek 3y ago

Wasn’t this debunked already? Windows will almost certainly not require a subscription. However, certain new AI features might due to server costs; and licensing Windows as a subscription for those features is the only way that makes any sense in an Enterprise. Home users most likely can, and will, use Microsoft Accounts to pay which obviously isn’t an option in a corporate setting.

Closi 3y ago
It could make sense if Windows had a subscription for enterprise, and they offered things like SaaS-level support for your corporate Windows installs (i.e. I think there is probably a version of this that could provide genuine value to both Microsoft and enterprise customers). Don't think many consumers would stomach the charge, so suspect it would possibly be different on the home side.
- layer8 3y ago
  They could integrate the Windows subscription into the existing Microsoft 365 subscription, and then slowly lock down Windows so that it becomes more and more difficult to use it without Microsoft 365, similar to how they make it ever more difficult to use Windows without a Microsoft account. And slowly increase pricing for Microsoft 365, of course. And you get the first year free with a new PC. Otherwise Windows degrades to the Starter edition.
gruez 3y ago
> Wasn’t this debunked already? yep. https://www.neowin.net/news/a-new-report-denies-rumors-of-a-subscription-based-windows-12/ https://www.neowin.net/news/a-new-report-denies-rumors-of-a-...
tonyhart7 3y ago
I mean is already happening in office and I doubt that wouldn't happen to windows they know most consumer wouldn't want to pay it but Enterprise and Pro level consumer ???? uuhhh that where the money come from

matteoraso 3y ago

Windows seems to become more and more anti-consumer every single day. That being said, I'm not convinced that Microsoft would push things quite so far, considering how easy it's becoming for users to switch to Linux. On the other hand, people were probably saying the same thing when Microsoft started putting ads in the OS, so what do I know?

lordfrito 3y ago
My next computer will be Linux. It's time. I can't follow where Microsoft is going any longer. Problwm is a few legacy windows apps I rely on, plus my large gaming collection. It didn't have to come to this. Sigh
cesarb 3y ago
> That being said, I'm not convinced that Microsoft would push things quite so far, considering how easy it's becoming for users to switch to Linux. Unfortunately, Microsoft is in a position where they can make it harder for users to switch to Linux, due to their control over SecureBoot: they can mandate that disabling SecureBoot or adding a custom key be forbidden, like they did on ARM (https://softwarefreedom.org/blog/2012/jan/12/microsoft-confirms-UEFI-fears-locks-down-ARM/ https://softwarefreedom.org/blog/2012/jan/12/microsoft-confi...).
ssnistfajen 3y ago
The barrier to switching to Linux is no longer present for anyone with basic IT knowledge, but Windows didn't get its market share by appealing to that demographic. As long as Linux is not the default installed OS for off-the-shelf computers like Windows currently is, it won't be able to capture the lions' share of Windows' userbase. Unfortunately I don't think any Linux distribution has the commercial/litigation power to stand up to Microsoft on that aspect. Satya won't making heart gestures about Linux anymore the moment he realizes someone is actually coming to eat Microsoft's lunch.

danjc 3y ago

Entrance to the park is free, it's the rides that you pay for.

andrewstuart 3y ago

Microsoft COULD go more open, less restrictive, less money grabbing, with Windows, look away while little people get away with piracy of windows, resulting in people installing it on everything everywhere, a huge user base and “success”. Instead, MS is imposing hardware restrictions, requiring accounts, requiring subscriptions, polluting it with advertising. As a result Windows will only lessen over time, fewer will install it, people will avoid it, stay in what they’ve got. This is Microsoft’s genius “strategy” for Windows - squeeze - and make people resentful and disinterested instead of making Windows an exciting “must have”. Who is it at Microsoft makes such decisions? I’m not running Windows 11 for these reasons and same thing for 12.

EA-3167 3y ago
Windows 11 pushed me into "My Mac is my primary computer, I use my PC for things I can't do on my Mac." Windows 12 will finally push me into Linux.
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  Desktop Linux is in my personal opinion unusable compared to Windows and MacOS. I acknowledge there are those who feel otherwise. Every time I try desktop Linux I get rid of it when it does not even have copy and paste consistently implemented and compatible with Mac/Windows copy paste. This is the absolute most basic minimal thing a desktop needs to implement because it’s what users do every 60 seconds. I’m not pressing three keys to copy, sorry. Copy and paste was invented at Xerox PARC in the 1970s, and desktop Linux still hasn’t worked it out. And then there’s the visual and look and feel sense that it was made by Dr Frankenstein. Windows suffers from this too but not like Linux which is awful.
  - choilive 3y ago
    Been feeling the same way for the past 15 years. Desktop Linux has certainly gotten better, but its not even at a Windows XP level of usability and feels remarkably stagnant.

jkellermann 3y ago

I couldn't care less, I'll just file a day of vacation for 2024-05-12 then...

mjevans 3y ago

This rent-seeking subscription BS has got to stop. It's just another way of raising the price by forcing everyone to constantly pay money and more money over the lifetime of a product.

snickerbockers 3y ago

this is the same corporation that considers it "fair use" when their LLM copies code from github without obeying the terms of the license so you shouldn't feel guilty at all about pirating windows.

Hammershaft 3y ago
Frankly I'd rather pay a subscription for a quality operating system that meaningfully improves over time then get a free one that feeds me ads, wastes my time, and frustrates me. I'm just skeptical MS is capable of delivering on a higher quality OS.
- readams 3y ago
  Unfortunately I think what we'll get is an operating system that you pay for and that feeds you ads and wastes your time. Both are possible!
- ssnistfajen 3y ago
  Why not require a subscription and then still show ads to subscribers? It's what the leeches I mean shareholders must've wanted.
  - Tommstein 3y ago
    Which is exactly what will happen.
  - snickerbockers 3y ago
    They can even take a page out of paramount+'s book by charging extra for an "ad-free" tier that merely shows you less ads than the other tiers.
- Tommstein 3y ago
  > Frankly I'd rather pay a subscription for a quality operating system that meaningfully improves over time then get a free one that feeds me ads, wastes my time, and frustrates me. This is Windows we're talking about, you will pay for the former and receive the latter.

stainablesteel 3y ago

i'm skeptical of messages like this, its not even out yet but lol

dboreham 3y ago

MBAs continuing to eat the world.

achrono 3y ago

Here's a seemingly ridiculous but serious/non-rhetorical question: other than staying up to date with more efficient hardware, what feature or capability does Windows 11 have that Windows 98 did not? OneDrive? BitLocker? ... Cortana? The difference between the sum of Windows licensing fees you've paid through the years and the cost of the Windows 98 license is the price you've paid to stay updated. Considering the fact that you cannot use Windows 98 today other than as a historical curiosity, I feel like what we're paying for is actually not software but a sort of annual (or triennial) ransom.

eropple 3y ago
This is just off the top of my head, but let's give it a go. Security, across all axes you'd care to evaluate. Actually-working multiprocessing, including across big/little architectures. SxS. A graphics subsystem that doesn't torpedo the computer if something goes wrong (and which continues to improve, e.g. DirectStorage). WSL2. WSA. BitLocker. Solid-state TRIM. Multiple desktops/task view. Aero Snap/Peek. The user-facing bits are emphatically not my favorite, but, even if I spotted you Windows 2000 so that you were on the NT kernel, there's a ton of stuff that's improved even from version to version, let alone over a twenty year gap.
- kgabis 3y ago
  All right, but apart from that, what have the Romans ever done for us? /s
  - eropple 3y ago
    Let us use more than 4GB of RAM?
riffraff 3y ago
Windows 98 was vastly less stable and secure than its successors. When it crashed you may also get a screwed file system since there was no journaling. It was effectively single user and passwords were kept in a substantially rot13 user readable file. I have not used windows in fifteen years or so, but already XP was miles ahead of 98.

buro9 3y ago

It's for copilot which they believe is the future of everything. And can be disabled in Pro via group policy https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/manage-windows-copilot https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/...

taspeotis 3y ago

Fake news, click the first link; Neowin has updated their article. https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-might-want-to-be-making-windows-12-a-subscription-os-suggests-leak/ https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-might-want-to-be-makin...

UberFly 3y ago
The whole story does seem pretty speculative at this point. They're not going off much.

spandextwins 3y ago

All that AI and all that great stuff they're doing has a cost. Bill Gates himself wrote software shouldn't be free. And if you look at all the great stuff he's doing in the world today, I'd gladly give him more.

tortoise_in 3y ago

Another reason it's with you switch to Linux.

ssnistfajen 3y ago

If true, this could be one of the most significant propelling forces to encourage Linux desktop adoption in recent decades. All we need is for OEMs to strike deals with major Linux distributions, and for at least one distribution to hold their nose and make a further dumbed down version of Linux that can be installed and used with zero user configuration like Windows 11 currently is.

UberFly 3y ago

The concept doesn't make sense. So if someone stops paying what? They quit sending security updates? No more feature updates isn't a big enough carrot to keep paying for many. No way they'll lock you out of your OS. Dubious reporting.

vermaden 3y ago

That is very good news :)

Tommstein 3y ago

Linux remains 100% free in all ways.

Swisstone 3y ago

Speculative articles such as this one make no sense, Windows Subscription Activation is not something new... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/windows-10-subscription-activation https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/windows...

JohnDeHope 3y ago

Linux in 2024 may run DirectX games well enough.

butz 3y ago

Dear Windows users, think real hard if you still want to be abused by developer of your OS. Please try out Linux. We have cookies, but you have to make them yourselves.