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ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment
- every 3y agoChromeOS is my x-window. Debian is my terminal. Google has done a nice job of integrating the two. The only real constraint is the hardware. Disclaimer: I was a pre-release beta tester for ChromeOS.
- badrequest 3y agoThe matte-black laptop they shipped out to beta testers for ChromeOS is still the best laptop I've ever owned. Maybe not processing speed-wise, but the size and everything else was perfection.
- every 3y agoAh yes, the CR-48 [1]. Named after an unstable isotope of the element chromium... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook#Cr-48 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook#Cr-48
- hyperhopper 3y agoI still have mine, but the hinge broke in a very annoying way that probably needs a full replacement.
- jauntywundrkind 3y agoThe team has both made a ton of effort switching off their proprietary Skia based rendering tech and adopting standard Wayland, and has put forward huge effort to making running incredibly well integrated real Linux containers just work. The headline is true. ChromeOS is Linux with Google’s desktop environment. But it obfuscates the details. It's a damned by omission statement. It has some really good sauce to help you not notice often, but it's not at all a Linux desktop environment one can regularly use. You can do a lot of Linux desktop-y things but only through well crafted special unique wrapped processes that mostly but not fully help mock & emulate a regular Linux desktop. Even though it now runs Wayland, the apps you want to run will have atypical intermediates up the wazoo. And no one else uses any of this tech. ChromiumOs has so much interesting container tech, does such an interesting job making containers think they have a regular Linux / FreeDesktop environment. It's far far far far deeper virtualization than for example https://github.com/containers/toolbox https://github.com/containers/toolbox . But you know what? Google has made zero effort to get these pieces adopted elsewhere. It's open source but not intended for use outside Chromium/ChromeOS. I respect & think ChromeOS is a quite viable Linux, and it's so much closer to the metal & more interesting, amazing tech, but my gods Microsoft has gone 300x further to establish wsl2 as a sustainable community effort folks could use & target, in a way that ChromiumOS has done nothing about. It's sad how Google has transformed from a company that appreciated & worked with ecosystems, that drove things collectively forward, into an individual player that does their own things & delivers from on high. ChromiumOS is such an incredible effort, but it's so internernally drive & focused, and it's hard to believe in such a wildcat effort, even though it's so so good. It keeps coming into better alignment with Linux Desktop actual, but via shims and emulations that no one else cares about or which seems marketed elsewhere. And that inward focus makes the whole effort both so exceptional & promising, but suspect. Such a different nearby but alternative & separately governed universe. ChromiumOS/ChromeOS do excellent at faking being a Linux desktop, and wonderfully have increasingly drawn more strength from that universe, but are still wholly their own very distinct very separate very controller other space. In many ways that's great, secure, good, and miraculously transparently done. But it's still hard to really trust, being such a weird alien impostor, faking so much for end user apps, and there's tension in believing ChromeOS will keep straddling the rift in pro-user manifestations forever.
- ramses0 3y agoEchoing: doing some "deep" troubleshooting of an issue on my Chromebook (since like 2006 + crouton/crostini), I read about their newer security/architecture for Linux apps running in chrome. https://chromeos.dev/en/linux/linux-on-chromeos-faq#why-run-vms-arent-containers-secure https://chromeos.dev/en/linux/linux-on-chromeos-faq#why-run-... ...see also the linked: "security" and then "glossary" to get a feel for the component complexity. It is pretty astounding, and astoundingly complicated, but mostly transparent as to how the host + guest integrate. Yeah, you can run "Inkscape" and the GUI just "shows right up" on the chromebook... but there's like 18 layers of security mitigations and complexity with virtualized device drivers and audited communication channels that are all (nearly) completely invisible to make it look like "it's just running /usr/bin/inkscape on the same machine, what's so hard about that?"
- _ea1k 3y agoYeah, it is funny how successful Linux became as a desktop while basically noone was paying attention. I just wish the keyboards were more developer friendly. Give me F keys!
- mksybr 3y agoYeah, I put Linux on my Chromebook, but I've yet to figure out how to use the F keys, in ChromeOS fn does it.
- mdwalters 3y agoYou can do Search/Launcher + [action key here], for example Search/Launcher + ← triggers F1. There is also a setting on ChromeOS that makes the action keys into function keys.
- loa_in_ 3y agoMy F keys go to 24, and I've got 7 macro keys in addition to that. It was just about enough for everything at any given time. Normal keyboards feel limited now. Actually the best thing was having keys nobody else has so their function was up to me to decide at absolutely all times.
- the_gipsy 3y agoI haven't used F keys in years.
- hnlmorg 3y agoI used them heavily. Multiple times an hour. I’d be utterly lost without them. It would be like taking the shift key away.
- mixmastamyk 3y agoLeaving a lot of productivity on the table. Those and rest of the hotkeys allow me to duck out early at work. ;-)
- hulitu 3y agoNo. Chrome OS is an OS using the Linux kernel and a custom userland. Android is also not "Linux".
- systems 3y agowould it be correct, to say, it is a linux, but not gnu linux ?
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y agoNo, it literally is GNU/Linux, with glibc and coreutils and everything. EDIT: Rereading the thread I should spell out: I only meant ChromeOS; Android is indeed different.
- talent_deprived 3y agoIncorrect. If it runs the Linux kernel, it is Linux. Period. End of story. Android is Linux.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y agoWhat do you think is incorrect, exactly? ChromeOS is a GNU/Linux distribution - a Linux kernel with GNU and other userspace components on top - derived from Gentoo. Android, it's true, is a non-GNU Linux distro, which does use mostly custom userspace parts over the Linux kernel. I wasn't intending to discuss Android, just to point out that ChromeOS is a GNU/Linux system, and a surprisingly vanilla one at that.
- charcircuit 3y ago>ChromeOS is a GNU/Linux system Personally, it doesn't qualify as GNU to me as the only GNU software included AFAIK is Bash. To me GNU requires coreutils to be there and usable.
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- maxamillion 3y agoGoogle put in a ton of work to make all the Linux and Android sandboxing while still being able to do file sharing into the sandboxes, Wayland GUI app bridging, usb pass-through, and a bunch of other stuff. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md#Overview https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con... ChromeOS got good and is wildly underrated for software development. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- slim 3y agoDo google developers develop on Chromebooks ?
- AJRF 3y agoAll new devs are given Chromebooks unless they need a specific device (like a MacBook for iOS devs)
- nolist_policy 3y agoAre they still given a Debian workstation besides that? Didn't know they are dogfooding ChromeOS that seriously.
- legolas2412 3y agoNopes, everyone uses cloud VMs by default. These VMs were very powerful too.
- 9front 3y agoYou could say that ChromeOS is Google's desktop environment with a Linux kernel, also. Which actually is!
- amelius 3y agoWhat happened to the Fuchsia project?
- wmf 3y agoIt's still going and Google still refuses to explain why it exists. It was rumored that some of the team was laid off during recent cost cutting.
- vineyardmike 3y agoIt’s not rumored. It was widely reported on and many people discussed their impact publicly. Fuchsia is shipping on real devices today (their home hubs) although yea it’s not clear why, they now have quite a few operating systems they manage. 1. Android of course. Chrome casts and phones and tablets use this. 2. Fuchsia for the home hubs. 3. ChromeOS for the chromebooks and stuff. 4. GCP probably has a cloud Linux like AWS but tbh I’m not familiar. They’ve killed “castOS” which was a very limited Linux based system I think.
- zeusk 3y agoSo more like 1. Linux - with some variations of user land based on use case. Primarily ChromeOS and Android. 2. Fuchsia - with unknown motivations and use cases
- ladyanita22 3y agocastOS was a stripped-down Android.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- martin1975 3y agoRumor has it, it may eventually replace Linux as the underlying OS to Android/ART. By now I'm thinking G's leadership is realizing the epic undertaking it would mean to bring Fuchsia to maturity... and I give Fuchsia a 50/50 chance of ending up in the vast Google graveyard (https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/) in the next 5 years. I'm curious why they couldn't poach one of the L4 microkernels to build Fuchsia on, specifically SEL4 which is used in Genode/SculptOS, same as they did with Linux and Android. It would've given them a strong base to build on, saved time/$$$....
- evasb 3y agoGoogle should invest in ChromeOS as a serious PC/Laptop OS. It is ridiculous that Google made the choice to make ChromeOS the "cheap" OS.
- amanzi 3y agoThis seems to be the direction they're heading with the recent Chromebook Plus announcement: https://blog.google/products/chromebooks/chromebook-plus/ https://blog.google/products/chromebooks/chromebook-plus/
- danans 3y ago> It is ridiculous that Google made the choice to make ChromeOS the "cheap" OS. The original goal was to make a laptop performant enough for a wide swath of common web based tasks that was very affordable to purchase and administer. It succeeded at that very well, especially in primary/secondary education. For many years now there have also been high performance Chromebooks available that can run a full Linux environment, drive multiple monitors at high resolution, and run heavy software like Figma. The engineering investment has been there, but the storytelling about the capabilities of these devices hasn't taken place. Now that's starting to happen, and probably non-coincidentally when Adobe Photoshop for the web is available.
- jshen 3y agoCan I install Firefox without jumping through a bunch of hoops and without it feeling like a second class experience?
- mattlondon 3y agoYes. I use Firefox on my work Chromebook so I can access my personal Gmail while logged in as my work account. It integrates perfectly and is installed as easily as e.g. vscode is. The do not put up any barriers just because it is Firefox.
- jshen 3y agoHow do you install it? Do the fonts look good?
- mattlondon 3y agohttps://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/run-firefox-chromeos https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/run-firefox-chromeos Indistinguishable from any other native app - fonts are fine.
- jshen 3y agoThanks! Sounds like it's improved a lot since I tried it years ago.
- daft_pink 3y agoExcept that most people view Linux as open source etc. Chromebooks aren’t Linux in the sense people who want a Linux computer care about
- c-hendricks 3y agohttps://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/ https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/
- jauntywundrkind 3y agoThat'd be more interesting a reference if it were actually possible to run without making your own conformamt special hardware. Google built their own embedded controllers to power this platform, unlike anything else that came before. The source may be open, but no other machine anywhere will run this. It has taken heroic efforts to port ChromoumOS to conventional x86 hardware platforms. Google then bought the people who spent years porting their proprietary impossible to run system on normal laptops. I don't know enought to say how actively Neverware's efforts have been continued, but so far it still seems like running Chromium OS elsewhere requires epic feats, that integration has not proceeded any further than before the acquisition. https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/16/22179242/google-neverware-chromebook-laptops-chrome-os-software https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/16/22179242/google-neverwar...
- SirGiggles 3y agoIt's to my understanding that the Neverware acquisition eventually led to ChromeOS Flex which is ChromeOS designed to run on any generic x86_64 platform. https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_ca/os/chromeosflex/ https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_ca/os/chromeosflex/ https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11552529 https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11552529
- Bu9818 3y agoMost of it is open source similarly to the Chrome/Chromium situation. But you're right that many Linux desktop users won't care about it due to it being locked down and limited, which was demonstrated in the article. It's not something I'd use on my personal devices.
- m463 3y ago... and tracking
- pentagrama 3y agoThat looks nice. I like the Material You look and feel and UX. I want to try it. Can I install Chrome OS as simply as I installed Ubuntu? With a USB drive and a friendly install process (on a separated partition on my SSD, my main OS is Windows 11 now).
- aesh2Xa1 3y agoYes. The chromeOS Flex installer image can be written to a USB drive and then booted from your usual computer. https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11552529 https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11552529 You can unzip this archive and write the unpacked BIN to a USB flash drive using `dd` like you would for Ubuntu. You can also just follow the Google instructions. https://dl.google.com/chromeos-flex/images/latest.bin.zip https://dl.google.com/chromeos-flex/images/latest.bin.zip
- pentagrama 3y agoGreat! Will try that since I see is an official documentation. I assume yes, but do you know if it is mandatory to have to login to the OS with a Google account? Or can be used with a local/offline account? I prefer the later.
- aesh2Xa1 3y agoYes, it's necessary to have a Google account for the typical case. You can login as a guest, but the data created in that session isn't saved – it's "ephemeral."
- qingcharles 3y agoI wonder why MS don't compile VS Code directly for ChromeOS?
- mattlondon 3y agoYou've been able to use vscode on ChromeOS for several years: https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2020/12/03/chromebook-get-started https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2020/12/03/chromebook-ge... I've used it a lot - works great.
- qingcharles 3y agoYeah, I always felt it was a kludge though to have to run it through Crostini rather than native. Felt like laziness on MS part when they easily have the resources to make it a native app. Glad to hear it works well, though!
- nbittich 3y agoI stopped reading when I saw "what is a desktop environment?" ...
- bedatadriven 3y agoI just recently switched from Ubunto to ChromeOS Flex and my quality of life has gone way up. I had so many frustrations with Ubuntu when switching displays, unlocking, sharing screens... all gone with ChromeOS flex and I get to keep my linuxdev tools. So happy!!
- IronWolve 3y agoAn yet, google still wont release a official vmware/virtualbox image for chrome os or generic ISO. If they dont believe enough to let users play and enjoy it, why would I buy a laptop just to play with it. I love how it has linux containers and linux available, why google has its artificial hands off policy, making you jump hoops of downloading a 3rd party install, convert it into a VM, and then dont do an OS upgrade or it breaks the vm, its just a bad experience.