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I live in DC and support this law not just from an accessibility standpoint but also from a privacy standpoint. I am tired of every retail/restaurant establish
by kxrm 3y ago
I live in DC and support this law not just from an accessibility standpoint but also from a privacy standpoint. I am tired of every retail/restaurant establishment building a profile of me.
- Spivak 3y agoBut like serious question, are you tired enough that you'll actually stop using payment cards? Is it worth the inconvenience and losing 2%ish off the top of everything you buy?
- kxrm 3y agoI am pragmatic about it, in DC, you will be penalized for not using a credit card as most people do use them and therefore businesses have baked in the fees. However having the option not to is a very important privilege I feel we should protect. Believe it or not we do have cash first businesses and I make it a point to use cash with them as they will only charge a fee if you use a credit card.
- charlie0 3y agoIf there are any laws we need to pass is that credit card fees should be disclosed on all receipts and optional. Cash buyers should not get penalized for not using a credit card.
- runnr_az 3y agoAt least in PHX, I’ve been seeing a lot of businesses with a 2-3% surcharge for cards
- amrocha 3y agoHuh, I thought that wasn't allowed by the card issuer rules. Isn't that why a lot of places don't take Amex? Because the fees are higher but they can't add a surcharge to cover it?
- HWR_14 3y agoThe rules were changed, I believe in some of the financial legislation passed post-2008.
- nulbyte 3y agoThey were changed in settling a class action lawsuit. But nothing was stopping merchants from offering a cash discount which would have served the same purpose.
- howLongHowLong 3y agoIn New Orleans, I've seen it advertised as "cash discount." So I guess technically its not a fee on card transactions - it's a discount on cash ones.
- bradfa 3y agoSame here in upstate NY. Mostly smaller businesses like pizza joints and such but pretty much every gas station has been doing this for years. The only cashless place I’ve seen around here is the major sports stadiums, everyone else seems to greatly prefer cash over cards.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoThat is for tax evasion purposes.
- blackshaw 3y agoWait, is it common in the US for brick-and-mortar businesses to charge you extra if you pay by card? That doesn't happen in the UK.
- howLongHowLong 3y agoVery common, in small, independent shops, though it often seems to be as much about avoiding taxes as avoiding the fee for the credit machine
- blackshaw 3y agoInteresting. I don't think I've ever seen it here in Britain. Some smaller businesses might insist on a £5 minimum spend if you're not paying cash, but even that has become very rare since the pandemic.
- arp242 3y agoWe definitely did that in the Netherlands when I worked at a computer store. Credit cards are comparatively rare, and while "2%" doesn't sound much it's a significant fraction of our profit margin. On a €600 laptop or desktop we'd earn maybe €50 to €75. The €12 is a comparatively large fraction of that. We didn't actually make that much more money from more expensive laptops, so for a €1,000 model we'd typically also earn €50 to €75, and with €20 of that going to Visa... yeah. After factoring in costs for sales, warranty, rant of the store, etc. there is not much left. On one hand you can say "well, it's only €20", but on the other hand if everyone started paying paying by CC we'd pretty much go bankrupt.
- glenneroo 3y agoThe official Apple store in Vienna adds 2% to the price if using a CC (at least last time I was there). Then again I don't know anybody who even has a CC here - AFAIK they just aren't that common and they aren't even accepted in a lot of places (though that is changing). They also don't work as normal credit cards in the US i.e. you don't really get credit, since it auto-deducts what you owe from your bank account during the next billing period.
- laurencerowe 3y agoCredit card processing costs in the US are absurd. Interchange fees are around 2% on average vs a cap of 0.3% for credit cards and 0.2% for debit cards in the EU. But cash handling costs a substantial amount too. We should probably all be paying by debit card and charging extra for cash or credit card.
- piaste 3y agoShould be noted that in most of the EU cashback programmes are also not as big as in the US. Never heard of anyone getting "2% back from everything". That said, a middleman that takes a smaller fee is still much better for the economy than a middleman that takes in an oversized fee and then magnanimously hands back a chunk of it. Especially when that middleman is a worldwide oligopoly with far too much power. I try to use local e-payment systems whenever possible.
- closewith 3y ago> Should be noted that in most of the EU cashback programmes are also not as big as in the US. Never heard of anyone getting "2% back from everything". Which, societally, is a good thing. Credit card rewards programmes are a tax on everyone that disproportionately affects the lowest earners who aren't availing of cashback.
- shapefrog 3y ago> Should be noted that in most of the EU cashback programmes are also not as big as in the US. If they charge 100% on everyones transactions then my delux diamond card (sorry you dont qualify) can give me 200% cashback and everyone else can go f' themselves. Ahh the land of the free
- bagels 3y agoYes. I try to pay with cash at all local places (mostly for food and the hardware store)
- maximilianroos 3y ago...then don't buy things from those businesses? We need a stronger reason than "I want that" to force businesses to give us things — otherwise how do we decide whose preferences we should mandate?
- kxrm 3y agoI specifically do avoid any business that is cashless. I appreciate any business that puts a sign up claiming to be cashless so that I can specifically avoid doing business with them.
- Findecanor 3y agoI used to have that position, but here in Sweden the cashless have won and there is nobody who even cares to uphold the law. The same could happen elsewhere. It is pretty much only the civil defence authority that encourages use of cash, because they are aware of the incessant hacking attacks that could disrupt the system at any moment. Cash has become less convenient for consumers: businesses refusing to take cash made it even more so.
- theshrike79 3y agoFinn here. I haven’t used cash since Covid, it’s all card-based. I do carry emergency cash with me, but it’s been in my wallet for 2 years now.
- sofixa 3y agoI visited Sweden and Denmark recently, and only coming home did I realise I didn't use any cash so don't have any for my "leftover cash and coins from places abroad I've travelled to" collection.
- dwallin 3y agoIdeally you decide by voting. It’s either that or you decide things by who has the most money / power / guns.
- jdjdjdjdjduuuu 3y agoThey probably can still do it with facial recognition
- xyzal 3y agoGreat idea for the next ban!
- jdjdjdjdjduuuu 3y agoToo bad it takes them decades to act on anything... Almost as if they wait for the next tracking method to be viable
- irrational 3y agoFace mask, fedora, and sunglasses.
- jmopp 3y agoThis. Masks are a lot more acceptable in public than they were 5 years ago. Given the mass surveillance going around, I'm surprised more people aren't in favour of regular mask wearing in public.
- klodolph 3y agoI think there’s too much overlap here between the people concerned about surveillance enough to wear a mask, and the people who don’t want to wear masks because it was the government who told them to do so in the first place. At least in the US.
- dgfitz 3y agoAs a data point, I hate wearing masks because, and maybe its just me, it's much harder for me to breathe wit a mask on. Makes me really, really out of breath. Also, if this counts as social media, this is the only one I use, because I don't want to give any information away about myself within my control. So given the option of mask/fedora/sunglasses or nothing, I'd take the former. If you see someone passed out in a fedora/sunglasses/mask outside, it may be me or someone like me who just got really dizzy because of a lack of oxygen. On the breathing thing, I am quite tall and have a large lung capacity, I've always wondered if that had anything to do with my mask struggles. I guess my point is, masks aren't a political thing for everyone, just the loud ones.
- didntcheck 3y agoThe new "meta" seems to be charging you a tax for not using their loyalty card. Items at Tesco are now significantly more expensive if you don't scan a Clubcard. I suppose it is easier to rotate those than bank cards though
- QuarterReptile 3y agoCan you just type in a phone number? In the US, you can always type in the rickroll phone number as a reward card. If it doesn't work, it's incumbent upon you to set up the profile for that store to keep the system going.
- macintux 3y agoUp until about 10 years ago one local grocery chain required you to enter only the last 4 digits of a phone number. I have no idea who thought that was a good idea.
- nathancahill 3y agoI hate to ask, but what's the rickroll phone number?
- QuarterReptile 3y ago(248)434-5508
- tim333 3y agoI've got three 'cards' for Waitrose as you can get one coffee per card per day and I wanted a few one time. I put the cards in quotes as they are actually images of bar codes on the phone.
- op00to 3y agoFeel free to use my phone number for these if you’re in the US. 212-867-5309. Replace area code with one near your location.
- fragmede 3y agoUse Apple Pay. It generates a new CC number (DPAN) for each transaction so they can't track you through that.
- SergeAx 3y agoImagine you entering a non-crowded venue and prices on wireless e-Ink tags are changing according to your profile got by face-recognition camera at the front door.