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A Woman’s Story
- jerrya 15y agoThat's a wonderful story; wonderfully written. If you don't mind, it reminds me of an Asimov story I've always loved, "Profession". http://www.inf.ufpr.br/renato/profession.html http://www.inf.ufpr.br/renato/profession.html
- sycr 15y agoSuperb. As a fellow Torontonian, programmer, and just a guy with a mom, this story warms me up. She sounds badass.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- exit 15y ago> The fact that she was a woman and black ultimately didn't make a difference to the, presumably, white men that hired her. so sticking it out is a credit to her. it's likely though that the industry missed out on others who were qualified, but too put off to get that far.
- cantastoria 15y agoDamn it, I didn't click on the link at the end. I've deleted my comment out of respect for raganwald's mother. Even I have lines I won't cross...
- raganwald 15y agoI don’t mind your comment. If it fosters productive discussion, it’s a win.
- davedx 15y agoAnd it's still missing out. My girlfriend was told that she was "in the wrong room" for one of her comp sci exams, back in the dark ages of... 2000 or so, in one of the most progressive countries in the world.
- html5iscancer 15y agoAnd she quit? We've become an oversensitive society of weaklings. When I was in school I was physically harassed daily. I had to fight people because I was into computers. People would come right out and say that they hated computer nerds and that they were going to "bash" me. It was fucking awful and I was miserable the entire time, but at no point did I consider giving computers up. So I have zero sympathy for the fashionable whining about how "hard" it is for some group of people to get into computers. It's never been easier to get into computers. You don't even need talent these days. The computer is practically designed for lazy, factory-style programmers.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- xibernetik 15y agoHowever, she had to go above and beyond to prove she was that capable and talented - she and her family had to fight to get her placed in a non-trade school and she had to take additional tests to show that her scores were legitimate. If she had been a white male, she would have been placed in the appropriate secondary school immediately and she would have been hired on the spot without further issue. It's a story about someone who, despite proving themselves to be capable and talented as their peers, would have been passed over if they hadn't fought to be recognized. Ultimately her race/gender didn't make a difference, but it certainly made getting where she wanted an ordeal.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- zafka 15y agoThis is delightful! Thanks for sharing.
- eugenejen 15y agoIt is a wonderful and inspiring story. It is the best way to honor one's parents. Thanks for sharing it with us.
- victorhn 15y agoDamn, I need to put more effort in my dance lessons.
- mhartl 15y agoThere were a lot of questions about numbers such as guessing the next number in a sequence. There were some logic puzzles, the kind where you have to figure out that it’s the baker who rides a bicycle and the mechanic who lives in the house with a red door. There were some strange questions where she was given a sketch of a three dimensional figure such as a cube with some missing pieces, and she had to guess which shaped piece would fill the missing space, or guess which of several other pieces was the same thing rotated or reflected. This is essentially an IQ test, and what they discovered is that Gwen was highly intelligent. They then did the smart thing and judged her based on her demonstrated aptitude rather than on the prevailing prejudices of the day. Indeed, there was an obvious financial incentive to do so, which serves to remind us that unfounded prejudice is unstable in a competitive market for labor. Nowadays, it is effectively illegal in the U.S. to give IQ tests to job applicants, and in the state of California it is illegal to give a black child an IQ test even when administered by a school psychologist as part of a professional assessment. To their proponents, such laws are mere "progress", but stories like Gwen's show how misguided these rules can be. When there is a clear incentive to discover the truth, objective assessments undermine prejudice rather than promoting it. It's a lesson we would do well to remember.
- starwed 15y agoI had a good friend who studied school psychology, and she let me see some of the IQ tests in use. I think you'd be surprised just how biased some of them are, and how reliant on cultural knowledge.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- pleasebehonest 15y agoI would be surprised. Do you have an example?
- raganwald 15y agoThere’s a long history of discussion about what exactly intelligence is, how whatever it is is measured, and why some social groups have statistically higher scores than others. Here’s an easy place to start looking into it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
- alexholehouse 15y agoCaptivating as ever, Mr Braithwaite. We all need heroes, and it's especially satisfying when such a hero is also a parent.
- davedx 15y agoReally nicely written post, thanks for sharing.
- _corbett 15y agothanks for sharing, a really inspiring story.
- lifeisstillgood 15y agoThe biggest lesson I see here is how much family solidarity and positive expectations makes in a childs education and life. Without her male tribe, and presumably the female tribe who sent the male tribe along, Reg's mum would have taken a different path. As a father of a young family with a spotty family past I wanted to focus on things I knew for my children. Perhaps I need to focus more on building that kind of supportive family or pseudo family. Inspiring stories have a tendancy to inspire things not first thought of. Thank you
- tomjen3 15y agoIf you want to raise your child to be successful look at the mars-mellow experiment. Unlike IQ they could come up with a really strong correlation to school performance and later success and it seems (at least partially) to be something the family has some influence over.
- Tichy 15y agoI've read about it recently and found a snippet interesting that said the kids who could wait longer were better at distracting themselves with other stuff. Interesting because the initial thinking would be "discipline", but just teaching your kid discipline might not be the thing that helps them over the marshmallow challenge...
- ugh 15y agoGoodbye HN. After repeatedly demonstrating your racism and sexism I just cannot take it anymore. It was nice knowing you.
- hazov 15y agoDon't go please, I really appreciate your comments and submissions, although I'm really not active here. You're one of the few users that I always read comments from, raganwald also is one. There's always a histrionic minority that read about some research and always come here bragging about it (ie, mainly about women, blacks or whatever else), this type of people, although mainly libertarian have a real dislike for the individual that is telling of their real beliefs.
- DanBC 15y agoI don't know if it makes any difference to you, but some people (at least me) have been down-voting and flagging the obvious troll in this thread. It is frustrating that people are keen to feed that troll.
- rickmb 15y ago'In Toronto, they could marry, but they couldn’t rent an apartment together as landlords were afraid of “trouble."' A bit off-topic, but I'm somewhat shocked by this (and my own ignorance). I know about the US, but this was an issue in Canada?
- raganwald 15y agoIn theory they could live anywhere they chose. But the gap between theory and practice is narrower in theory than it is in practice.
- RyanMcGreal 15y agoMy parents came to Toronto from Ireland in the 1960s and also experienced their share of covert racism. It may be hard to imagine that a city that is so cosmopolitan† today was so repressive and ethnocentric just a few decades ago. † Notwithstanding the Toronto Sun, et al.
- nandemo 15y agoGiven that it was 60 years ago, I'm not so surprised. For what is worth, even today the majority of landlords in Japan will not rent to foreigners.
- andrewflnr 15y agoDoes anyone else think it's weird that the principal seemed to have authority over where she could go to secondary school? Was that standard? Is it still true today?
- rdl 15y agoIt sounds like this woman was lucky to both be incredibly intelligent in her own right, and to have an excellent family who believed in her and were persuasive to overcome some societal obstacles. And to live in a place with excellent schools and jobs. I wonder if she would have gone to work for a big company today, or if she would have tried to do a startup.
- flocial 15y agoI immediately knew it was about your mother after the first few paragraphs. Just a bit sad that the debate here quickly degenerated into the political correctness of IQ tests and the very loaded debate of IQ and race. When you omit skin color and gender from the story, it's an inspiring story of family values triumphing over environment. It would also be reasonable to say that this family probably has a higher level of native intelligence than the average but they also have instilled the value of hard work and perseverance to make the most of their potential so even if they were average, they would get better results given the same potential. I'm always puzzled at how quickly intelligent debate breaks down among Americans the second gender or race become part of the discussion.
- einhverfr 15y agoFascinating article. I am reminded of things my grandmother said about breaking into the field of physics (and later really helping greatly expand the field of astrophysics). I am also reminded of women complaining about the problems with trying to raise a family and get tenure as science professors today, and conclude that in many ways my grandmother had it easy. So it sounds like Gwen's experience wasn't unique. It may be that we are actually becoming more rather than less hostile towards women breaking into male-dominated industries.
- k00kykelly 15y agoI think we are more hostile to women now than in the past if only because we say we aren't hostile at all and in the past women and minorities knew they needed to fight their way in. If you know you're up for a fight vs just thinking you're evaluating possibilities you're approach is going to be different. Basically, since the younger generation has bought into the idea that sexism/racism is on its way out they are more likely to believe someone when they say - you can't be any good. And why be persistent if maybe you aren't actually any good?
- MarkMc 15y agoI love this story because it shows how important it is to be persistent and stand up to authority. Lois had to challenge the principal not once but TWICE, and she was smart enough to get her male relatives involved. Gwen had to fight for her job application TWICE - once to receive the test paper and again to be credited for her answers. This persistence is even more impressive because in each case it involved personal confrontation with someone in authority. This cultural element of success is underrated. People understand the importance of intelligence, hard word and luck, but don't realise that 'culture' is also vital. Without a family culture of standing up to authority going back three generations, Gwen would not have got that great job. (Malcolm Gladwell devotes much of his book, 'Outliers' to this theme).
- donaq 15y agoThat was a very inspiring story about your mother, raganwald. Thanks for posting it.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- munyukim 15y agoIQ is very biased depending on the environment you grew up.if u grew up in zimbabwe or a country with high literacy levels the iq tests will be just too easy.
- munyukim 15y agoThe idea that some race have low IQ because of their race shows how low your IQ is and you ability to think outside box.
- lucb1e 15y agoThere are a lot of stories lately of women not taken for intelligent or made fun of, but I don't see that happen here at all. Recalling from a previous news item, a women said that men always told her to "lighten up" (assuming that means something along the lines "don't whine, I didn't mean it that seriously", it doesn't translate). Well either I'm one of the bastards, or the culture is different here. It appears here we, men and women, have a lot of... liberties I guess you could say. Looking at the list of countries allowing gay marriage lately, I was surprised to see the Netherlands listed as one of just a few. I once read a quote, "Mom, why do those two women hold hands? - Because they love each other.". I didn't get why it was upvoted at all (site similar to bash.org, don't remember which though). It seems rather obvious to me, like a girl asks her mother why a man and a woman hold hands. Now that I've learned that gay marriage is not actually that common, I get the point. Is this true for (black) women in America too? I don't get the impression the USA is 'behind', but reading these stories you'd almost think it is. Of course, this particular one is a story from many years ago and either way a good read. But still, it is one of many last days which make it to the front page, covering pretty much the same subject. I'm not saying people should stop posting or upvoting them, nor do I intend to offend anyone or any country. I'm just wondering aloud what the motivation is behind posting and upvoting these stories.
- raganwald 15y agoPerhaps this story is also about a person who overcame many obstacles to do somethng nobody thought was possible. If that doesn't belong on HN, what does?
- hef19898 15y agoThe most sencere respect for what Gwen did and achieved. I can't tell more and only draw my hat (bad translation of a german saying, please don't hold it against me!).
- patrickyeon 15y agoOT, but it sounds like you're trying to say "I've got nothing more to say, I just tip my hat [to her]." As in, no more words required, just a show of respect.
- hef19898 15y agoYep, that's it! Hope that's not considered spam.
- losethos 15y agoPeter Gadwa said the Bell Curve said people at all IQs existed in all races. IQ is based on deviation from average. I had some funny notions on what he meant. God said "sports" on the topic of racism. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\WEALTH.TXT ing trade. The number of sailors and shipping which any particular capital can employ, does not depend upon the nature of the trade, but partly upon the bulk of the goods, in proportion to their value, and partly upon the distance of the ports between which they are to be carried; chiefly upon the former of those two circumstances. The coal trade from Newcastle to London, for example, employs more shipping than all the carrying trade of England, though the ports are at no great distance. To force, t ---- IQ is crack -- this crowd secretly obsesses on it. I posted a story, "Neanderthal Cannibals had High IQ" just to make the most clicks. I think I spelled it wrong, though. On a serious, higher level note than these code monkeys... Angels make for funny musing. Muses make for funny musing. Monkeys can make shakespeare in theory, but that's simple theory. Ham fisted means you never get Shakespeare. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\BIBLE.TXT with thee in all thy quarters. 13:8 And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year. 13:11 And it shall be when the LORD s ---- They're all closet NAZIs, am I right? IQ and evolution are all they think about, not sex! ROFLMAO
- losethos 15y agoPeter Gadwa said the Bell Curve said people at all IQs existed in all races. IQ is based on deviation from average. I had some funny notions on what he meant. God said "sports" on the topic of racism. God says... C:\LoseThos\www.losethos.com\text\WEALTH.TXT ing trade. The number of sailors and shipping which any particular capital can employ, does not depend upon the nature of the trade, but partly upon the bulk of the goods, in proportion to their value, and partly upon the distance of the ports between which they are to be carried; chiefly upon the former of those two circumstances. The coal trade from Newcastle to London, for example, employs more shipping than all the carrying trade of England, though the ports are at no great distance. To force, t
- gadders 15y agoThe comments seem to have degenerated into a debate about the merits of IQ tests, but I wanted to say thank you for a beautiful and uplifting story.
- hardboiled 15y agoTo moms. To women. Thanks Raganwald.