11 ms·

This is only true for the non-Pro models. The flagship models get USB 3.0 speeds, which seems like a fair trade-off, and it seems like it's tied to the USB con

This is only true for the non-Pro models. The flagship models get USB 3.0 speeds, which seems like a fair trade-off, and it seems like it's tied to the USB controller inside the SoC, since the non-Pro models get the same SoC as the iPhone 14 Pros (last gen), it is pretty clear what happened. Nothing really to see here or complain about.

Night_Thastus 3y ago
That 'non-pro' model is still $1,000.
- quenix 3y ago
  What? The non-pro model is $799 The pro model is $999
- prettychill 3y ago
  the iphone 15 starts at 799.
  - horsawlarway 3y ago
    $800 before tax or accessories. Out the door... Minimum $900 bucks where I live. That feels close enough to a grand that trying to explain away usb 2 speeds with "But it's a budget phone!" is pretty disingenuous.
    - HWR_14 3y ago
      And out the door where I live they are free (or will be in a few months) if you switch cell carriers and trade in your old phone.
      - horsawlarway 3y ago
        > if you switch cell carriers and trade in your old phone. Soooo absolutely not free?
        HWR_14 3y ago
        Not 100% free, but a pretty low cost. If you were planning on switching carriers anyway for lower "new customer" rates and don't have a use for your old phone it is free.
    - prettychill 3y ago
      nobody is calling an iphone a budget phone. adding tax and optional accessories to call this a $1k phone is disingenuous
soulofmischief 3y ago
What is the difference then between an iPhone 14 Pro and an iPhone 15 non-Pro, beyond a slightly different exterior?
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  120hz.
  - soulofmischief 3y ago
    Interesting. From what I can see, the 14 Pro starts at $999, but the non-Pro 15 will start at $799. Are there any features the 14 Pro retains that the non-Pro 15 drops?
    - masklinn 3y ago
      According to the official comparator (https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-14-pro,iphone-15,iphone-15-pro https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-14-pr...) - always on display (alongside the 120Hz and variable refresh rate) - telephoto lens - 3x optical zoom (versus 2x) - macro photo - night mode portraits - macro video - proraw / prores
      - soulofmischief 3y ago
        Thanks! So beside the lens and zoom, it's mostly artificial differentiation?
        nekoashide 3y ago
        This is a skip a generation iPhone for me, USB-C is cool and all but by the time I'm ready to upgrade they should have something much better out there.
        norman784 3y ago
chiefalchemist 3y ago
> Nothing really to see here or complain about. Apple's brand is generally pro-consumer and pro-experience. How is such dated technology (i.e., USB 2.0) anywhere close to Apple's brand (read: market expectations)? If any other company said, "Here's a brand new 2023 $800 device with USB 2.0..." there would be blood in the social media streets. There were plenty of other ways to differentiate the pro and non-pro models. Using USB 2.0 is lazy and shortsighted. Obviously, not on-brand either.
- realPtolemy 3y ago
  They release it with 2.0 this year so that they can update it with 3.0 next year (or in two years) and it will all be forgotten.
- mfer 3y ago
  Think of this from the point of personas and their uses. What are the personas for 95% of the market and what tasks will they do that relate to USB transfer speeds? I suspect Apple has done this analysis and that most iPhone users won't notice the difference for the non-pro models. Remember, the hacker news crowd as a group does not represent the masses of iPhone users.
  - dalyons 3y ago
    They won’t even not notice the difference, they will never transfer anything by wire. No chance to even notice. This is such a non issue
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  To be fair to Apple, iPhone users (even those buying Pro models) have endured USB 2 data transfer rates for years. Why should they care now? Apple's customers are well-versed in apologetics.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    Because now that port isn't Apple-only any more. It's a market wide standard and now other device manufactures can trigger the market to care. "Let's go with the fax machine-y technology..." and the rest of the meeting attendees signed off? Perhaps the brand manager was on holiday? :) p.s Put another way, I was waiting for the 15 and the USB-C. I'm not going to spend $800 on a device w/ USB 2.0, and I'm not going to spend $1000 just to get what is also a relatively dated technology (i.e., USB 3.0). Which is kinda funny...we're debating the value of USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 isn't exactly the current standard either. Yeah, I get it. I'm an edge case. Most people don't care. I simply find it hard to believe that Apple so willing cut corners - for no reason - on the flagship devices.
o1y32 3y ago
"only true for non-Pro" (i.e. anything < $1K), "a fair trade-off" "nothing to complained about" As someone whose most devices are USB-C 3.0+ for the past few years and never need to think about speed, I have to say this comment is hilarious.
- raisedbyninjas 3y ago
  USB3 is 15 years old and was common at least 10 years ago.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    And yet USB2 is still the baseline standard for the USB-C standard ratified less than 10 years ago, the standard that the EU mandated compliance to. If the EU wanted to outlaw USB2 phones it should have done that. But there would have been pushback from other vendors too - and rightly so.
- jacob019 3y ago
  USB 2.0 speeds over USB-C are common on low to midrange android phones as well.
  - growse 3y ago
    Low to midrange android phones are not £800.
    - lukevp 3y ago
      They’re also not engineered to the standards of an iPhone either. The cost comes from somewhere… everyone has been fine paying for usb 2.0 speeds over lightning on even the pro max versions as recently as today because they’re still selling iphones. I get it, android phones have a better cost/benefit for you. Some people prefer the tradeoffs that Apple makes, like privacy, quality materials, a different OS, battery life, etc.
      - 3y ago
diogenes4 3y ago
> Nothing really to see here or complain about. Super odd attitude to have—consumers should be a lot angrier about a mediocre offering sold at sky-high prices.
- pivo 3y ago
  I don't think I've ever plugged my iPhone in. I've always used Qi charging. Should I still complain?
  - cassianoleal 3y ago
    This has nothing to do with charging. It's data transfer. I imagine cabled data transfer is even more niche than cabled charging, especially amongst the non-pro crowd.
    - pivo 3y ago
      Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. Why would should users complain about a spec-sheet item that they don't use.
- mrcwinn 3y ago
  I don’t want to be super angry. That sounds awful. Am I really supposed to be? Can someone make a case that a large group of mainstream iPhone users are plugging in their phones and need better charging speeds? More than 480mbps? And if that were true, where was the upheaval during the Lightning port area? I look around and I just don’t see this group of people, but maybe I’m missing something.
  - diogenes4 3y ago
    [dead]
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  This is what Apple is like as a company though. It's always been baffling that so many people that work in IT and should know better champion them so much. Being different is really important to some people I guess.
seydor 3y ago
Shareholders should be mad. Why give competitors reasons to mock you
- raydev 3y ago
  Because real world money speaks louder than words.
masklinn 3y ago
I would not discount market segmentation purposes, even though it seems like a bit of a mess: on the ipad front - the 4th gen ipad air supports 5Gb USB, the 10th gen iPad only supports 0.5Gb, both use an A14 - the 5th gen ipad pro supports 40Gb USB, the 5th gen ipad air only supports 10Gb, both use an M1 But I've been told these ports are not symmetrical, the highest speeds are only in host mode and come from a separate USB3 controller, and the soc integrated device mode has much lower specs (10G for the Pro, 0.5Gb on the A15-using 6th gen mini — 5Gb capable in host mode).
- dataworm 3y ago
  There is no separate USB3 host controller on the M1, it has a dual-role device USB 3.1 controller which supports up to 10 Gb/s and can act both in host and device modes. The 40 Gb/s speed on the iPad Pro comes from the Thunderbolt controller, which is completely unrelated to USB and disabled in software on the 5th gen iPad Air for market segmentation. The 4th gen iPad Air and 6th gen iPad Mini use a USB 2.0 dual-role device controller integrated into the SoC, which is limited to 480 Mb/s, and a USB 3.0 controller connected over PCIe, which supports up to 5 Gb/s. The PCIe USB controller isn't included on the 10th gen iPad. It doesn't support device mode, which explains the USB 2.0 speeds when connected to a computer.
  - masklinn 3y ago
    Thanks for all these explanations!
HWR_14 3y ago
They had announced that USB-C would be limited to USB2 speeds over a year ago. I don't know when I've ever felt the need to move data to or from my phone any faster over a wire. Unless backups are for some reason backups are wired, non-incremental and you have a 256+ gig drive filled up, in which case it could take just over an hour.
- hungryforcodes 3y ago
  The photos the iPhone 6 took were fine and image stabilized. Why so we need a better camera? I mean, you're going to put to market a $700 phone and cant upgrade one chip on it to do USB3? Really!
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    They have a stockpile of old chips. Better to use them up then scrap them. Especially if no one will notice the difference outside of people who read the tech specs.
itg 3y ago
"Nothing really to see here or complain about." For a device that starts at $799 and only has 128GB of storage, there is plenty to complain about.
- cesarb 3y ago
  > only has 128GB of storage Am I the only one who feels that 128GB is a huge amount of storage for a phone? Or is it because I still remember when even desktop computers had storage sizes best measured in megabytes?
  - bmitc 3y ago
    I'm not even a phone power user, and I have over 300GB used on my phone. I only have a couple games. A lot of the data is probably offline storage of cloud backups and downloaded music and movies. But I use a phone with an actual SD card slot, so I freely download things offline because of that.
    - philistine 3y ago
      > so I freely download things offline because of that. I'm sorry to say but if you download things offline you are a power user.
      - bmitc 3y ago
        I mean, it's a checkbox setting in like two apps (Spotify and Prime Video).
        philistine 3y ago
        I’m sorry to say, but with a phone, if you change the settings, you’re a power user.
  - justin66 3y ago
    > Am I the only one who feels that 128GB is a huge amount of storage for a phone? Do you think your feelings might vary depending on how you use the device?
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Totally agree. For all the complaints about "omg they're using a 23 year old spec", the article appears to say that this is the same speed limit as the lightning controller (the one sold in their 14Pro model) that no one seemed to have an issue with data transfer speeds. And the other commenter that pointed out "who exactly uses USB for data transfer anyway?" is spot on. I'm not even an iPhone user and about the only time I do data transfer by USB is when I'm moving stuff to a new phone. Point being, 99.9% of people who buy an iPhone are never going to notice the speed differential. I feel like all the people complaining are either people in that .1%, or people who just like to complain.
- belval 3y ago
  > or people who just like to complain People just like to complain. If you were to ask someone on the street with an iphone when is the last time they manually transfered files to their iphone using a USB cable the overwhelming majority would have no idea what you are talking about.
  - sterling6785 3y ago
    Hell, if you looked at the phone belonging to someone complaining, odds are high that either their phone or their data cable is using 2.0. I actually think this is a little bit Apple being spiteful for being forced to move to USB-C and honestly I'm a little bit on their side on this one.
    - turquoisevar 3y ago
      > I actually think this is a little bit Apple being spiteful for being forced to move to USB-C and honestly I'm a little bit on their side on this one. Honestly it’s probably not even that. It’s probably a SoC limitation that the base models reuse. On the Pro line they bumped it up to 3.0.
  - brokenmachine 3y ago
    Because you'd be asking an iCloud sucker.
boringuser2 3y ago
This is a level of corporate sycophancy that must be reviled in polite society for us to move forward.
- tristor 3y ago
  I assure you, I am not a corporate sycophant. However, the article linked here is a classic definition of FUD. The histrionics in the comments here seem to mostly be driven by anti-Apple zealotry rather than any reasonable analysis of the facts. There is exactly nothing forcing anyone to purchase an iPhone 15, and it very clear in all of the materials from Apple what the different between the Pro and non-Pro models is. The iPhone 14 Pro was discontinued (at a higher price) to make way for the non-Pro iPhone 15, since they are roughly equivalent in capabilities... including in their USB speeds. USB speed was a non-issue 30 days ago, and now it's an emergency that is worthy of histrionics, hand-wringing, and FUD, including calling anyone pointing out how ridiculous this is a "corporate sycophant". Please.
  - dzikimarian 3y ago
    > There is exactly nothing forcing anyone to purchase an iPhone 15 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35014499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35014499 Son was bullied in school, then father was bullied and flagged by HN.
    - tristor 3y ago
      Doesn't sound like force to me. Teenagers are assholes, news at 11. Note, that post was flagged for being pointless flamewar content, and I also flagged this submission we're in now for being pointless flamewar content and FUD.
      - dzikimarian 3y ago
        Except asshole teenagers are part of Apple business strategy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33500579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33500579 Do you flag other submissions where companies are called out for minor fuckups? :-)
justin66 3y ago
> The flagship models get USB 3.0 speeds, which seems like a fair trade-off To whom?
- dylan604 3y ago
  to the person making the comment, and probably others. there's no reason to be obstinate about it.
  - justin66 3y ago
    The point was that there is a point of view issue here. A person familiar with the issues of sourcing Apple's SoCs and less worried about their own costs in purchasing the device might view this as a "fair trade-off." A person unfamiliar with those issues, or merely a person highly concerned with value for money, might view it as a lame product feature segmentation. And I suppose there's the point of view of tech journalists to be contended with as well. > there's no reason to be obstinate about it. Strange comment. You're projecting or something.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      you make a pithy simple comment with "to whom?" because it's something you feel the opposite about. it's quite clear the very person you replied is one of the "whom" you're inquiring. to even challenge that is just gaslighting the situation after the fact.
      - justin66 3y ago
        > gaslighting the situation after the fact You’ve obviously discovered step #1 of a plan for which step #3 is Profit! There must be a lot of excitement that goes along with something like that.
        dylan604 3y ago
        everyone knows that it is cheaper for a company to mass produce the same hardware at scale then lock/unlock features via software based on the model the vendor wants to make. in order to make different lower price models, some features are disabled. why this is hard to accept is beyond me. well, actually it's not. it's clear that some people just have issues with retail and companies making things they don't agree with and just come to the internet to argue, and here i am falling for it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
distantsounds 3y ago
how is this a "fair tradeoff?" USB2 is over 2 decades old, why are you accepting this still?
- sleepybrett 3y ago
  Because it's a feature vanishingly few users actually use. They have all the numbers, it's a very small niche of people that actually transfer things by cable. Most of that niche is photographers and videographers that shoot using their phone. For those people a Pro or Pro Max is non-negotiable already because it has the better camera. So they get the fancy camera and the fancy transfer speed. They even address this IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT VIDEO.
- falcolas 3y ago
  And USB 3 is almost 2 decades old. How hard is it really to implement?
- mcphage 3y ago
  > why are you accepting this still Because the only think I plug my phone into is my car, and I'm pretty sure that's still running at USB 1.x speeds.
marcyb5st 3y ago
No, it's not clear what happened from just the transfer speeds. It becomes clear when you see that first party cables that enable hight transfer speeds are sold at 79, 149, and 179 bucks for the 1m, 1.8m, and 3m respectively [1]. So, in essence, they purposely did just enough to comply with EU regulations while still aiming at milking customers' wallets with crazy expensive accessories that you would take for granted from top or premium tier smartphones. [1] https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/product/MU883ZM/A/thunderbolt-4-usb%E2%80%91c-pro-cable-1m https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/product/MU883ZM/A/thunderbolt-...
- paulmd 3y ago
  those are thunderbolt cables, not usb-c cables. they're backwards compatible but they have extra signal pairs to support PCIe tunneling, and much more stringent shielding and termination that allows 40gbps bidirectional transfer (and the next thunderbolt standard goes to 120gbps). Also, Apple's 3m cable is actually not unreasonable when you consider that that's actually beyond what the thunderbolt spec theoretically allows, even with an active cable with a repeater chip the limit is supposed to be 2 meters. but lol @ people objecting to apple rolling out usb-c now, that's gotta be a conspiracy too for some people. every damn apple thread. if you want to buy a normal cable, just buy a normal cable.
- brianaker 3y ago
  Passive Thunderbolt Cables run at speeds of 40Gbp at 0.8m, otherwise they run at half the speed. Active Thunderbolt Cables run at speeds of 40Gbp at 1.8m/3m. All of Apple's Thunderbolt 4 cables are 40Gbp, the same cannot be said about all of the cables you buy from Amazon. If you feel the need to blame someone? I guess you can blame Intel for the design.
raverbashing 3y ago
Honestly, with Wi-Fi 6, who cares? Unless you're filming a 4k full-hd movie with your phone and download time is critical
- jabroni_salad 3y ago
  And if you are, you are using the pro anyways, so you can direct record to external storage and swap SD cards on the fly.
kwanbix 3y ago
An 800 euros gadget with USB 2.0? Come on!
asimovfan 3y ago
How do you ascertain that theres nothing to complain about? How does that follow?
tclover 3y ago
Nice try, apple
ASalazarMX 3y ago
Nothing forces Apple to use their own years-old USB controllers on brand new phones, which they're manufacturing right now. Nothing besides artificial market segmentation, I mean.
- tristor 3y ago
  The controller is built into the SoC. As is their standard practice for many years, non-Pro models receive the SoC from the previous generation of Pro models. Because this is the case, in fact they don’t have a choice other than spending billions of dollars to retool an older SoC. The fact you and others seem not to understand this should be an indication you aren’t informed enough to have a valid opinion on the topic.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  They'd have to produce a new SoC, which would be a lot of cost (and I believe generally a small power usage increase) for a feature that, to a first approximation, no-one would use. It is really, really uncommon to transfer large amounts of data over USB on an iPhone these days.

Night_Thastus 3y ago

That 'non-pro' model is still $1,000.

quenix 3y ago
What? The non-pro model is $799 The pro model is $999
prettychill 3y ago
the iphone 15 starts at 799.
- horsawlarway 3y ago
  $800 before tax or accessories. Out the door... Minimum $900 bucks where I live. That feels close enough to a grand that trying to explain away usb 2 speeds with "But it's a budget phone!" is pretty disingenuous.
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    And out the door where I live they are free (or will be in a few months) if you switch cell carriers and trade in your old phone.
    - horsawlarway 3y ago
      > if you switch cell carriers and trade in your old phone. Soooo absolutely not free?
      - HWR_14 3y ago
        Not 100% free, but a pretty low cost. If you were planning on switching carriers anyway for lower "new customer" rates and don't have a use for your old phone it is free.
  - prettychill 3y ago
    nobody is calling an iphone a budget phone. adding tax and optional accessories to call this a $1k phone is disingenuous

soulofmischief 3y ago

What is the difference then between an iPhone 14 Pro and an iPhone 15 non-Pro, beyond a slightly different exterior?

agloe_dreams 3y ago
120hz.
- soulofmischief 3y ago
  Interesting. From what I can see, the 14 Pro starts at $999, but the non-Pro 15 will start at $799. Are there any features the 14 Pro retains that the non-Pro 15 drops?
  - masklinn 3y ago
    According to the official comparator (https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-14-pro,iphone-15,iphone-15-pro https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-14-pr...) - always on display (alongside the 120Hz and variable refresh rate) - telephoto lens - 3x optical zoom (versus 2x) - macro photo - night mode portraits - macro video - proraw / prores
    - soulofmischief 3y ago
      Thanks! So beside the lens and zoom, it's mostly artificial differentiation?
      - nekoashide 3y ago
        This is a skip a generation iPhone for me, USB-C is cool and all but by the time I'm ready to upgrade they should have something much better out there.
        norman784 3y ago

chiefalchemist 3y ago

> Nothing really to see here or complain about. Apple's brand is generally pro-consumer and pro-experience. How is such dated technology (i.e., USB 2.0) anywhere close to Apple's brand (read: market expectations)? If any other company said, "Here's a brand new 2023 $800 device with USB 2.0..." there would be blood in the social media streets. There were plenty of other ways to differentiate the pro and non-pro models. Using USB 2.0 is lazy and shortsighted. Obviously, not on-brand either.

realPtolemy 3y ago
They release it with 2.0 this year so that they can update it with 3.0 next year (or in two years) and it will all be forgotten.
mfer 3y ago
Think of this from the point of personas and their uses. What are the personas for 95% of the market and what tasks will they do that relate to USB transfer speeds? I suspect Apple has done this analysis and that most iPhone users won't notice the difference for the non-pro models. Remember, the hacker news crowd as a group does not represent the masses of iPhone users.
- dalyons 3y ago
  They won’t even not notice the difference, they will never transfer anything by wire. No chance to even notice. This is such a non issue
lern_too_spel 3y ago
To be fair to Apple, iPhone users (even those buying Pro models) have endured USB 2 data transfer rates for years. Why should they care now? Apple's customers are well-versed in apologetics.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  Because now that port isn't Apple-only any more. It's a market wide standard and now other device manufactures can trigger the market to care. "Let's go with the fax machine-y technology..." and the rest of the meeting attendees signed off? Perhaps the brand manager was on holiday? :) p.s Put another way, I was waiting for the 15 and the USB-C. I'm not going to spend $800 on a device w/ USB 2.0, and I'm not going to spend $1000 just to get what is also a relatively dated technology (i.e., USB 3.0). Which is kinda funny...we're debating the value of USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 isn't exactly the current standard either. Yeah, I get it. I'm an edge case. Most people don't care. I simply find it hard to believe that Apple so willing cut corners - for no reason - on the flagship devices.

o1y32 3y ago

"only true for non-Pro" (i.e. anything < $1K), "a fair trade-off" "nothing to complained about" As someone whose most devices are USB-C 3.0+ for the past few years and never need to think about speed, I have to say this comment is hilarious.

raisedbyninjas 3y ago
USB3 is 15 years old and was common at least 10 years ago.
- paulmd 3y ago
  And yet USB2 is still the baseline standard for the USB-C standard ratified less than 10 years ago, the standard that the EU mandated compliance to. If the EU wanted to outlaw USB2 phones it should have done that. But there would have been pushback from other vendors too - and rightly so.
jacob019 3y ago
USB 2.0 speeds over USB-C are common on low to midrange android phones as well.
- growse 3y ago
  Low to midrange android phones are not £800.
  - lukevp 3y ago
    They’re also not engineered to the standards of an iPhone either. The cost comes from somewhere… everyone has been fine paying for usb 2.0 speeds over lightning on even the pro max versions as recently as today because they’re still selling iphones. I get it, android phones have a better cost/benefit for you. Some people prefer the tradeoffs that Apple makes, like privacy, quality materials, a different OS, battery life, etc.
    - 3y ago

diogenes4 3y ago

> Nothing really to see here or complain about. Super odd attitude to have—consumers should be a lot angrier about a mediocre offering sold at sky-high prices.

pivo 3y ago
I don't think I've ever plugged my iPhone in. I've always used Qi charging. Should I still complain?
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  This has nothing to do with charging. It's data transfer. I imagine cabled data transfer is even more niche than cabled charging, especially amongst the non-pro crowd.
  - pivo 3y ago
    Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. Why would should users complain about a spec-sheet item that they don't use.
mrcwinn 3y ago
I don’t want to be super angry. That sounds awful. Am I really supposed to be? Can someone make a case that a large group of mainstream iPhone users are plugging in their phones and need better charging speeds? More than 480mbps? And if that were true, where was the upheaval during the Lightning port area? I look around and I just don’t see this group of people, but maybe I’m missing something.
- diogenes4 3y ago
  [dead]
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
This is what Apple is like as a company though. It's always been baffling that so many people that work in IT and should know better champion them so much. Being different is really important to some people I guess.

seydor 3y ago

Shareholders should be mad. Why give competitors reasons to mock you

raydev 3y ago
Because real world money speaks louder than words.

masklinn 3y ago

I would not discount market segmentation purposes, even though it seems like a bit of a mess: on the ipad front - the 4th gen ipad air supports 5Gb USB, the 10th gen iPad only supports 0.5Gb, both use an A14 - the 5th gen ipad pro supports 40Gb USB, the 5th gen ipad air only supports 10Gb, both use an M1 But I've been told these ports are not symmetrical, the highest speeds are only in host mode and come from a separate USB3 controller, and the soc integrated device mode has much lower specs (10G for the Pro, 0.5Gb on the A15-using 6th gen mini — 5Gb capable in host mode).

dataworm 3y ago
There is no separate USB3 host controller on the M1, it has a dual-role device USB 3.1 controller which supports up to 10 Gb/s and can act both in host and device modes. The 40 Gb/s speed on the iPad Pro comes from the Thunderbolt controller, which is completely unrelated to USB and disabled in software on the 5th gen iPad Air for market segmentation. The 4th gen iPad Air and 6th gen iPad Mini use a USB 2.0 dual-role device controller integrated into the SoC, which is limited to 480 Mb/s, and a USB 3.0 controller connected over PCIe, which supports up to 5 Gb/s. The PCIe USB controller isn't included on the 10th gen iPad. It doesn't support device mode, which explains the USB 2.0 speeds when connected to a computer.
- masklinn 3y ago
  Thanks for all these explanations!

HWR_14 3y ago

They had announced that USB-C would be limited to USB2 speeds over a year ago. I don't know when I've ever felt the need to move data to or from my phone any faster over a wire. Unless backups are for some reason backups are wired, non-incremental and you have a 256+ gig drive filled up, in which case it could take just over an hour.

hungryforcodes 3y ago
The photos the iPhone 6 took were fine and image stabilized. Why so we need a better camera? I mean, you're going to put to market a $700 phone and cant upgrade one chip on it to do USB3? Really!
- HWR_14 3y ago
  They have a stockpile of old chips. Better to use them up then scrap them. Especially if no one will notice the difference outside of people who read the tech specs.

itg 3y ago

"Nothing really to see here or complain about." For a device that starts at $799 and only has 128GB of storage, there is plenty to complain about.

cesarb 3y ago
> only has 128GB of storage Am I the only one who feels that 128GB is a huge amount of storage for a phone? Or is it because I still remember when even desktop computers had storage sizes best measured in megabytes?
- bmitc 3y ago
  I'm not even a phone power user, and I have over 300GB used on my phone. I only have a couple games. A lot of the data is probably offline storage of cloud backups and downloaded music and movies. But I use a phone with an actual SD card slot, so I freely download things offline because of that.
  - philistine 3y ago
    > so I freely download things offline because of that. I'm sorry to say but if you download things offline you are a power user.
    - bmitc 3y ago
      I mean, it's a checkbox setting in like two apps (Spotify and Prime Video).
      - philistine 3y ago
        I’m sorry to say, but with a phone, if you change the settings, you’re a power user.
- justin66 3y ago
  > Am I the only one who feels that 128GB is a huge amount of storage for a phone? Do you think your feelings might vary depending on how you use the device?

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

Totally agree. For all the complaints about "omg they're using a 23 year old spec", the article appears to say that this is the same speed limit as the lightning controller (the one sold in their 14Pro model) that no one seemed to have an issue with data transfer speeds. And the other commenter that pointed out "who exactly uses USB for data transfer anyway?" is spot on. I'm not even an iPhone user and about the only time I do data transfer by USB is when I'm moving stuff to a new phone. Point being, 99.9% of people who buy an iPhone are never going to notice the speed differential. I feel like all the people complaining are either people in that .1%, or people who just like to complain.

belval 3y ago
> or people who just like to complain People just like to complain. If you were to ask someone on the street with an iphone when is the last time they manually transfered files to their iphone using a USB cable the overwhelming majority would have no idea what you are talking about.
- sterling6785 3y ago
  Hell, if you looked at the phone belonging to someone complaining, odds are high that either their phone or their data cable is using 2.0. I actually think this is a little bit Apple being spiteful for being forced to move to USB-C and honestly I'm a little bit on their side on this one.
  - turquoisevar 3y ago
    > I actually think this is a little bit Apple being spiteful for being forced to move to USB-C and honestly I'm a little bit on their side on this one. Honestly it’s probably not even that. It’s probably a SoC limitation that the base models reuse. On the Pro line they bumped it up to 3.0.
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  Because you'd be asking an iCloud sucker.

boringuser2 3y ago

This is a level of corporate sycophancy that must be reviled in polite society for us to move forward.

tristor 3y ago
I assure you, I am not a corporate sycophant. However, the article linked here is a classic definition of FUD. The histrionics in the comments here seem to mostly be driven by anti-Apple zealotry rather than any reasonable analysis of the facts. There is exactly nothing forcing anyone to purchase an iPhone 15, and it very clear in all of the materials from Apple what the different between the Pro and non-Pro models is. The iPhone 14 Pro was discontinued (at a higher price) to make way for the non-Pro iPhone 15, since they are roughly equivalent in capabilities... including in their USB speeds. USB speed was a non-issue 30 days ago, and now it's an emergency that is worthy of histrionics, hand-wringing, and FUD, including calling anyone pointing out how ridiculous this is a "corporate sycophant". Please.
- dzikimarian 3y ago
  > There is exactly nothing forcing anyone to purchase an iPhone 15 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35014499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35014499 Son was bullied in school, then father was bullied and flagged by HN.
  - tristor 3y ago
    Doesn't sound like force to me. Teenagers are assholes, news at 11. Note, that post was flagged for being pointless flamewar content, and I also flagged this submission we're in now for being pointless flamewar content and FUD.
    - dzikimarian 3y ago
      Except asshole teenagers are part of Apple business strategy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33500579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33500579 Do you flag other submissions where companies are called out for minor fuckups? :-)

justin66 3y ago

> The flagship models get USB 3.0 speeds, which seems like a fair trade-off To whom?

dylan604 3y ago
to the person making the comment, and probably others. there's no reason to be obstinate about it.
- justin66 3y ago
  The point was that there is a point of view issue here. A person familiar with the issues of sourcing Apple's SoCs and less worried about their own costs in purchasing the device might view this as a "fair trade-off." A person unfamiliar with those issues, or merely a person highly concerned with value for money, might view it as a lame product feature segmentation. And I suppose there's the point of view of tech journalists to be contended with as well. > there's no reason to be obstinate about it. Strange comment. You're projecting or something.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    you make a pithy simple comment with "to whom?" because it's something you feel the opposite about. it's quite clear the very person you replied is one of the "whom" you're inquiring. to even challenge that is just gaslighting the situation after the fact.
    - justin66 3y ago
      > gaslighting the situation after the fact You’ve obviously discovered step #1 of a plan for which step #3 is Profit! There must be a lot of excitement that goes along with something like that.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        everyone knows that it is cheaper for a company to mass produce the same hardware at scale then lock/unlock features via software based on the model the vendor wants to make. in order to make different lower price models, some features are disabled. why this is hard to accept is beyond me. well, actually it's not. it's clear that some people just have issues with retail and companies making things they don't agree with and just come to the internet to argue, and here i am falling for it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

distantsounds 3y ago

how is this a "fair tradeoff?" USB2 is over 2 decades old, why are you accepting this still?

sleepybrett 3y ago
Because it's a feature vanishingly few users actually use. They have all the numbers, it's a very small niche of people that actually transfer things by cable. Most of that niche is photographers and videographers that shoot using their phone. For those people a Pro or Pro Max is non-negotiable already because it has the better camera. So they get the fancy camera and the fancy transfer speed. They even address this IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT VIDEO.
falcolas 3y ago
And USB 3 is almost 2 decades old. How hard is it really to implement?
mcphage 3y ago
> why are you accepting this still Because the only think I plug my phone into is my car, and I'm pretty sure that's still running at USB 1.x speeds.

marcyb5st 3y ago

No, it's not clear what happened from just the transfer speeds. It becomes clear when you see that first party cables that enable hight transfer speeds are sold at 79, 149, and 179 bucks for the 1m, 1.8m, and 3m respectively [1]. So, in essence, they purposely did just enough to comply with EU regulations while still aiming at milking customers' wallets with crazy expensive accessories that you would take for granted from top or premium tier smartphones. [1] https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/product/MU883ZM/A/thunderbolt-4-usb%E2%80%91c-pro-cable-1m https://www.apple.com/ie/shop/product/MU883ZM/A/thunderbolt-...

paulmd 3y ago
those are thunderbolt cables, not usb-c cables. they're backwards compatible but they have extra signal pairs to support PCIe tunneling, and much more stringent shielding and termination that allows 40gbps bidirectional transfer (and the next thunderbolt standard goes to 120gbps). Also, Apple's 3m cable is actually not unreasonable when you consider that that's actually beyond what the thunderbolt spec theoretically allows, even with an active cable with a repeater chip the limit is supposed to be 2 meters. but lol @ people objecting to apple rolling out usb-c now, that's gotta be a conspiracy too for some people. every damn apple thread. if you want to buy a normal cable, just buy a normal cable.
brianaker 3y ago
Passive Thunderbolt Cables run at speeds of 40Gbp at 0.8m, otherwise they run at half the speed. Active Thunderbolt Cables run at speeds of 40Gbp at 1.8m/3m. All of Apple's Thunderbolt 4 cables are 40Gbp, the same cannot be said about all of the cables you buy from Amazon. If you feel the need to blame someone? I guess you can blame Intel for the design.

raverbashing 3y ago

Honestly, with Wi-Fi 6, who cares? Unless you're filming a 4k full-hd movie with your phone and download time is critical

jabroni_salad 3y ago
And if you are, you are using the pro anyways, so you can direct record to external storage and swap SD cards on the fly.

kwanbix 3y ago

An 800 euros gadget with USB 2.0? Come on!

asimovfan 3y ago

How do you ascertain that theres nothing to complain about? How does that follow?

tclover 3y ago

Nice try, apple

ASalazarMX 3y ago

Nothing forces Apple to use their own years-old USB controllers on brand new phones, which they're manufacturing right now. Nothing besides artificial market segmentation, I mean.

tristor 3y ago
The controller is built into the SoC. As is their standard practice for many years, non-Pro models receive the SoC from the previous generation of Pro models. Because this is the case, in fact they don’t have a choice other than spending billions of dollars to retool an older SoC. The fact you and others seem not to understand this should be an indication you aren’t informed enough to have a valid opinion on the topic.
rsynnott 3y ago
They'd have to produce a new SoC, which would be a lot of cost (and I believe generally a small power usage increase) for a feature that, to a first approximation, no-one would use. It is really, really uncommon to transfer large amounts of data over USB on an iPhone these days.