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Procreate Dreams
- pilgrim0 3y agoReally curious to get more info on that file format. Seems like it’s structured as a database and has internal addressing schemes and embedded caching structures to allow for partial IO. The idea of persistent history implies that it records changes as events, which is a good fit for an LSM. In any case it must be a container format, as an LSM alone would not suffice, perhaps it could be a filesystem volume disguised as a file with Apple specific tech behind it.
- Quinzel 3y agoIt’s time for me to buy a new iPad so I can enjoy Procreate once again!!
- boppo1 3y agoThis is huge, I've been looking for a non-subscription animation tool for ipad. Day one buy. I only have one gripe: I wish project management in procreate was more robust. Even stacks within stacks would be an improvement. But right now my projects are a scattered mess and there's nothing I can do.
- yoyopa 3y agoif you make everything easy there's no incentive to do it
- cassidoo 3y agoThis is so dang exciting. I love that they don't do subscriptions, too.
- winkelwagen 3y agoSuper exciting, procreate is such an awesome program. Bold move of making it portrait. I bought my iPad a long time ago for procreate, best purchase I’ve done. It reawakened illustration for me. Curious what we can make with this. Although I can’t find the minimum requirements anywhere yet.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- coldtea 3y agoI feel like they have neglected Procreate proper for a while now. A lot of the things they've added in the 5.x line are niche, while major features are ignored. Organic brushes (natural media like oil and watercolor behavior, not just controls like jitter) are still MIA, for example. And several more things. And Dreams is more of a diversion. Only a small fraction of users would be interested in animation. But they of course know that they will get those $19.99 anyway, out of curiosity, even if most Procreate users are going to rarely or never really use Dreams.
- 1123581321 3y agoI'm more optimistic. Procreate has gotten so many people into digital painting that avoided Photoshop. Dreams will introduce many people to animation. I'm excited about that because lots of people have ideas and talent but find animation tools too intimidating to explore.
- elicash 3y agoI might get downvoted for this, but it would make sense as one-time purchases lessen the need to provide more regular updates. It becomes unaffordable to continue, so they now are forced to launch separate, new products. Subscriptions can be good!
- rndmio 3y ago$20 one time purchase, I think I'll be getting this at release. I understand the subscription model but for things like this that I will probably play with for a bit then possibly not come back to for a few months I don't want to have to feel like I'm getting utility from my subscription, I just have it, whenever I want.
- criddell 3y agoI'll buy it even though I have no use for it just because I want to support the company. For me, Procreate is a killer app. It's the reason I bought my iPad. IMHO, the $450 or so that it costs to get an iPad + Pencil + Procreate is well worth it. I don't understand how they can make something as good as Procreate and sell it for $15.
- bugglebeetle 3y agoAs a (mostly) former illustrator, I bought Procreate once and made thousands of dollars with it. My Adobe subscription, conversely, felt like little more than a tax on being in a creative field.
- themagician 3y agoSo true. What sucks is you have to pay the Adobe tax even if you 100% move your workflow away from Adobe, because inevitably someone is going to send you an .AI file or .PSD.
- Kon-Peki 3y agoDo you think that this is an “extension” of the existing app? Existing users will buy the new app. But will new users need to buy both, or only this one?
- bugglebeetle 3y agoI imagine the animation features in the exist app will wither relative to Dreams. They’re fairly limited in the existing app, so IMO separating them out and focusing development there is probably for the better.
- famouswaffles 3y agoLooks nice. Too bad they won't develop for Android.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- criddell 3y agoAre there good Android tables with something like the Pencil? If so, then maybe that's an opportunity for somebody because there's clearly nothing like it on Android (at least that was the case a couple of years ago). The only problem is Procreate have set their price way too low. There's no way I'd want to start working on something as grand as Procreate and then sell it for $15.
- famouswaffles 3y agoSamsungs tablets are great and I prefer the S-pen to the Apple Pencil. Hardware isn't the bottleneck. They just don't want to. I think they have some exclusivity deal with Apple. Would explain a few things. Infinite Painter and Hipaint(procreate clone) are really the only android alternatives to what procreate is going for.
- dagmx 3y agoAs with anything Android, it comes down to market share and variance. I doubt there’s an exclusivity agreement. Samsung has really great products. How many people are buying that instead of an iPad? So many of my Android using friends will have an iPad. Google let Android on tablets languish for years and the result is they’re such a small part of the marketplace that very few app developers can justify the return on investment. And then even from those few Android tablets, how many have a good pen outside of Samsung? It’s a niche of a niche of a niche to target
- famouswaffles 3y agoSamsung's global tablet market share is still huge even if lagging apple. 23.1 vs 35.4 as of Q1 2023. People are buying android tablets and there are lots of downloads for the apps that do exist on Android. "Market Share" would be a silly reason not to expand. The market is evidently there. The only valid reasons are not having the capital to expand or having too small a team. Neither of which really apply to Procreate. Even procreate don't give the market share excuse when asked. It's not a valid one.
- VyseofArcadia 3y agoThat's a heck of a URL.
- maerF0x0 3y agoCame to say something similar... Was worried it was SFW to click. "Procreate" as in to reproduce....
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- dagmx 3y agoThis looks phenomenal. The Savage Interactive team have such great thought about doing UX for iPad and Pencil, that they've really captured the mobile artist market. I used to do 2D animation, and this is what so many people have been hoping Toon Boom would release instead of their half hearted approaches to tablet (not iPad strictly) interfaces in the past. I think this will be really well received, though given the more niche skillset needed, I doubt it'll be as popular as regular ProCreate and only $20? That's just a killer value proposition. Competing commercial apps are so much more expensive, and free apps leave a lot to desire for iPad interaction. I know a ton of artists who bought an iPad Air or Pro just for ProCreate. I can see a lot of my animator friends doing the same now too for this.
- catapart 3y agoHell yeah! Even if this app is problematic from a cross-platform or usability standpoint, the fact that people are making real investments in re-thinking our design tools for different contexts is very exciting. I can't wait until we get some better audio, video, drawing, and animation apps built with mobile in mind from the ground-up that AREN'T indie silos of interactive design and file formats. I know people will be itchy to give me some recommendations here, but I'm cynical about it because everything I've seen, so far, is "neat but not for team/studio production" for some reason or another. So it's nice to see something that is absolutely certain about how these things actually get used in the industries, and is willing to strike a new path, while focusing on what is required for industry interoperability. Once other people start picking up on this idea, we might get some really awesome new ways for people without specific domain knowledge to be as creative in their output as they are in their own heads. That will be pretty awesome, I think!
- brundolf 3y ago> problematic from a cross-platform or usability standpoint What do you mean by this?
- catapart 3y agoI mean "if this app comes out and has limitations on either your OS (desktop or mobile), your method of file replication (iCloud integration can be done even if you're using an agnostic file type but it could, alternatively, be tightly-coupled), your third-party hardware (any stylus should work), or any other area of application and binary development that would be detrimental to user freedom" Basically - even if all those things are locked down, instead of open like they SHOULD* be, it's still a net positive. *that's my editorializing; all apps SHOULD be web apps (or at least delivered without installation), unless there's some reason you simply can't get the performance you need out of web assembly (often the case, today; hopefully not often true in the future).
- brundolf 3y agoFor what it's worth, Procreate supports every relevant file type and iPads have a file manager now, support USB-C flash drives, etc. In my experience compatibility has never been a problem with these apps.
- mkaic 3y agoAs a loyal and long-time user of the original Procreate app (I bought my iPad basically exclusively to use it), and someone who's been interested in animation for a long time but too intimidated by the software to ever really get into making it myself, I'm extremely excited about this. If they can bring even a fraction of the usability and user-friendliness Procreate has to Procreate Dreams, I could easily see myself sinking many, many hours into it. As soon as this was announced I instantly sent it to all my artist and animator friends, I think this is going to be a wildly popular app.
- HellDunkel 3y agoIt is really the combination of ipad, pen and procreate where the magic is born. Of cource the app is very well executed an thoughtful. I wish i had more time and energy for drawing and painting.
- danielvaughn 3y agoProcreate is easily the best iPad app out there IMO. It's simply fantastic. I bought an iPad Pro just for Procreate, it's that good.
- mkaic 3y agoI bought my iPad Air for the same reason haha! If Dreams turns out to be as good as I'm hoping it will be, I may even end up upgrading to an M2 iPad Pro — though I'd have to really get obsessed with Dreams first for that to happen :P
- shannonclaude 3y agoAgreed—I got it just for that too!
- nacs 3y agoAnother great thing about it -- NO subscriptions or IAPs! They've done some huge updates over the last 5 years and not even charged for a new version.
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- cnees 3y ago$20 with no subscriptions is an astonishingly low price point!
- mkaic 3y agoYeah it's a stupidly good deal from the looks of it. It's very cool of them to resist the industry trend of trying to squeeze recurring revenue out of every product!
- jadtz 3y agoHow can they even afford doing this?
- Cu3PO42 3y agoQuantity, presumably. Procreate itself ist eben cheaper (or at least it was when I bought it) so the model must be working for them. And I'm the perfect example why: I'm not an artist, I barely draw, but I bought Procreate. Why? Because it's a really cool tech demo for that expensive new iPad Pro and at €10 one-time it was extremely easy to justify, even if I've only played with it a bit. I imagine a lot of people fall in the same category and bought it even if they're not the typical market for digital art apps.
- gallerdude 3y agoThis looks amazing. Over the last year, I’ve gone from a casual Disney/Ghibli fan, to a really deep lover of hand-drawn animation. The expressiveness and attention to detail are astounding. I also really like really smooth and intuitive interfaces, the iPad in particular is extremely natural (albeit at the things it’s designed to do well.) Inside I’m kind of nerding out at the combination of my two loves, I have zero artistic talent, but I will buy this immediately. Maybe I can learn to have ~some artistic talent.
- dagmx 3y agoI recommend buying the Animators Survival Kit and working through the exercises within. It’s what many animators use as their intro to animation and will teach you most of what you need to know of the mechanics. From there, it’s just a matter of acting and experience
- brundolf 3y agoThis is the way the majority of Procreate users came into it :)
- reactorpres 3y agoNeat! Flash finally makes it to iOS.
- silveira 3y ago"No subscriptions. Just $19.99 USD. Available November 22." I was sold at "No subscriptions". I'm buying this November 22 and putting a day off in my calendar.
- safeimp 3y agoI’m a long time Procreate user and am shocked at the value I get out of it for the price. It’s definitely a killer app on the iPad and was the main reason why I picked up the Pencil. Not to go off on too much of a tangent but thinking about animation on my iPad I was suddenly reminded of one of my favorite “toys” (tools?) from my childhood, The Etcha Sketch Animator: https://the80sand90s.com/articles/etch-a-sketch-animator?format=amp https://the80sand90s.com/articles/etch-a-sketch-animator?for...
- mortenjorck 3y agoWith Procreate having been the longest-running one-off purchase app on the App Store that I know of (I literally bought my copy in 2010) I was on the edge of my seat to see whether they were going to finally follow the subscription trend for Dreams. Even though I haven’t had a particular urge to get back into animation again, I think I’m going to have to buy this just to support this business and as a thank-you for 13 years of free updates to Procreate. And to do a little flipbooking for fun.
- bandergirl 3y agoThis is great but also unfortunate. $19.99 feels too low for this — and I say this as someone who doesn’t use paid/subscription apps. $2.99 would have been easily swallowable.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mejutoco 3y agoYou meant $29.99 right?
- 3y ago
- drcode 3y agoI want to point out that there is an excellent existing iPad app from a small developer called Callipeg, that has most of the same feature set described here (maybe everything except the effects features) I've had a great experience animating in Callipeg with both cell animation and transform animation. It is true though that Procreate is the gold standard for drawing apps, and the drawing functionality in Callipeg isn't as polished- So I will be tempted to switch to this new app for animation, if they can match the drawing experience from the core Procreate product.
- idk1 3y agoCan I just sat, what a gorgeous homepage, perfect for an animation app.
- quakeguy 3y agoNo subscriptions, no problems with me.
- howon92 3y agoNo subscriptions, just $20: what a nice offering.
- atentaten 3y agoI love the enthusiasm in the comments. I have no expertise, but I have some interest in animation. I’ve never heard of procreate. Can someone share a link to examples using this tool?
- WA 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=procreate https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=procreate
- nocoiner 3y agoGod bless them for maintaining transparent, user-friendly pricing. Sounds like a bargain at twice the price.
- alpark3 3y agoFrom the title, I thought Procreate was coming out with another crappy stable diffusion-derived AI image generator. Thank god that's not the case. Very excited for this.
- mannykannot 3y agoFWIW, I was thinking in terms of a conception-timing app.
- kalupa 3y agoI had the exact same thoughts here ... "Oh man, procreate AI?" "oh ... wait, this is kinda neat"
- Bjorkbat 3y agoThankfully, they're already made their stance on AI clear on Twitter https://twitter.com/Procreate/status/1661210079360700417?lang=en https://twitter.com/Procreate/status/1661210079360700417?lan...
- jw1224 3y agoIt’s sad to see blanket statements like this. Stable Diffusion can be an extraordinarily powerful tool for creatives. I know two professional artists who both hated the concept of AI image generators. But since Photoshop added Generative Fill, I know both have enjoyed using it, and I’ve not heard another complaint since. I’d bet Procreate add AI capabilities sooner or later. Once you’ve tried it in Photoshop, it’s impossible to look back.
- imachine1980_ 3y agothat's true, but is quite daunting that all tech art software are implementation of AI image generation, mainly low effort implementations of existing models, is quite rare seeing big announcement in art that isn't AI copycats of features this year.
- tobr 3y agoThat’s exactly what the name made me think as well, and I was a little confused trying to interpret the page in light of that. This really looks like an amazing app, though.
- jalino23 3y agothis is super cool!
- q_andrew 3y agoI was hoping their big announcement was going to be Procreate for PC, but I'm happy for all the people out there who will benefit from better accessible tools.
- cush 3y agoI absolutely love Procreate. Will be downloading this day one
- jrod16 3y agoOhhhh this is exciting!
- Gwarzo 3y agoInteresting name.. I too have dreams where I procreate.
- can16358p 3y agoReminds me of Bret Victor's lovely talk Inventing on Principle: https://youtu.be/PUv66718DII https://youtu.be/PUv66718DII Looking forward to give a try.
- px43 3y agoWhen did this site start having ads?
- criddell 3y agoI wouldn't call this an ad, but I know what you are getting at. I was curious myself so I want back and looked at the early submissions and it looks like submission #6 was the first one similar to this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6 That's from October 2006, which is 5 years before you made your account.
- px43 3y agoThat one looks like an actual blog post though, not just a blind link to a website that's trying to sell some random product which is completely unrelated to news or hacking. The link here is literally just a video advertising the pre-sale of some tablet app that isn't even coming out for a two and a half months. It's not open source, nor even available on open platforms. It has nothing to do with code, or security, or anything even mildly development related. It also isn't "news" in any sense of the word. Not even a press release saying what the app is, just a flashy ad trying to get you to pre-order some app. Futhermore, it was the #1 link on the site when I made my post, which feels a lot like someone paid to have their advertisement pinned to the top of the site.
- FireInsight 3y agoWell I upvoted this because I use Procreate the famous iOS drawing app often and think that it's cool that the same company is coming out with a high quality OTP app for animation. If this just isn't your cup of tea though, that's alright. But I wouldn't accuse this of being some advert pinned to the top artificially, even if this was outside my tech bubble. There are constantly links to products posted on this site without them being anything more than the marketing site. Heck, there's Show HN which sometimes features similar content, but even more explicitly posts that serve as advertisements.
- popol12 3y agoAs a french I expected something very different from that link :3
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y agoAustralia keeps producing some of these banger softwares. Best in class. Procreate, Sublime Text. I don't know why the government feels so mismatched though.
- Hamuko 3y agoBut do they balance out Jira?
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y agoTouché.
- gregsadetsky 3y agoSide note -- although it's noted by many people here -- to say that I'm very pleased to see ... some? seeming pushback against subscription-based models. The other example that comes to mind for a very polished and well loved app is Koala (a great audio sampler/sequencer) [0], which sells for a flat $4.99. Subscriptions have advantages of course, such as providing developers with a more sustained income vs one time purchases which necessarily mean a diminishing hourly rate when you take into account indefinite support. But still. I'm hopeful. [0] https://www.koalasampler.com/ https://www.koalasampler.com/
- SSLy 3y agoAnother iPadOS app with ridiculous price to capabilities ratio is Drambo.
- awfulneutral 3y agoThat's so cheap though, you'd have to sell hundreds of thousands of copies per year to even support a few developers, in the USA anyway. The app store model is driving companies towards subscriptions and micro-transactions, because otherwise like you say users pay a low price once, and get new development and support forever for free. IMO it would be better to raise prices and charge for new versions of apps every year or so, like we used to do, but the app store and user expectations make that unfeasible.
- bpicolo 3y agoThere's been a lack of silly solo-made animation content on the web ever since Flash went away. Wonder if this could start a new era of kids making fun things.
- lappet 3y agoI know! Are there no alternatives to Flash? I miss it so much.
- dbspin 3y agoI wonder if there's any chance of a beta programme? I literally just wrapped principle photography on a short film that has a bunch of animated elements I'm going to have to figure out how to do for budgetary reasons. Love ProCreate and this looks like a fascinating tool. November is quite a while away!
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- wishfish 3y agoFound this video of Alex Kunchevsky animating a butterfly in Dreams. If this is how the process actually works, then I could see Dreams being very popular. Simple and intuitive. https://twitter.com/kunchevsky/status/1697439424311853252 https://twitter.com/kunchevsky/status/1697439424311853252 Of course, I could also see edge cases where the simple & intuitive get in the way of what the artist actually wants to do. Will be interesting to see how it pans out in practice.
- yuck39 3y agoForgive me if this is a stupid question, but how is it determining how to color the inverse side of the wings of the butterfly in the animation? Did he keyframe that in and exclude it from the animation? Or is the app using vision models to infer that he is trying to animate wings specifically and just assume the perspective needed and do the coloring on the opposite side for him? From a technical standpoint the ladder would be very cool, but I could see how it could be troublesome for artists trying to do "real animation".
- HellDunkel 3y agoThis is done in procreate- not dreams. I think there are just a big number of steps skipped in that video.
- nacs 3y ago1) That's not Dreams, that's original Procreate's animation tools 2) The video is cutting out the drawing of other frames after the first of each layer.
- nacs 3y agoI don't think that's Dreams.. That's just the basic animation flow in Procreate (frame by frame).
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- evujumenuk 3y agoIn medieval Europe, "procreate dreams" were thought to be caused by succubi. This landing page isn't about that.
- theoldlove 3y agoYeah, the name brought me back to dirty sheets in my teenage years. Glad I wasn’t the only one
- xk_id 3y agoThe Procreate product page has a heading "Procreate on your face", which is so stupid, it must have actually been on purpose.
- buckethats444 3y ago[dead]
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y agoThe naming is almost as a bad a new place in weed-legal santa fe ("Baked & Brew" ... no, that's baked goods, no marijuana products). I mean, at least go for CamelCase ... ProCreate is sort of clear (and said in its own way). Procreate is ... weird.
- konfusinomicon 3y agomy first thought was that it's an AI girlfriend generator and that someone took it a step further and made an app to create an entire ai family. Sim games are about to get wierd!
- aidos 3y agoTake. My. Money. Not for me, but my eldest picked up procreate recently and was immediately able to create all sorts of amazing things. She’s even been able to create some great animations, but this makes procreate look like a toy in that regard. Feels a lot like ableton live with the way they’ve been able to reinject the playfulness into creating on a screen. Love it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dylan604 3y agoIf this works as well as the promo material, then this is hella cool software. I'm not in the world of 2D animation any more, but I've sent the link to a few people I know that are that this might have flew under they're radar. Waiting to hear back responses.
- throw1386456 3y agotheir timeline reminds me of the lottielab one, with the thumbnails and zooming and all that
- dang 3y agoI know there's a lot of appetite to discuss this but it isn't released yet, so the thread can only go so deep. We want to have space for discussion once the product is out, so downweighting this thread is probably best.
- benoliver999 3y agoI will check this out. I currently use the excellent ToonSquid, but I really like Procreate for drawing. ToonSquid does a really cool thing where their flashy marketing video turns out to be a demo project in the app you can look at and edit. Really good for getting underway quickly.
- cardimart 3y agoHow cringe is that keynote? Hard to watch
- jstummbillig 3y agoReleasing a major software product right now without a fat AI sign on it extrudes and instills enormous amounts of confidence.
- FireInsight 3y ago"Dreams" kind of sounds like some AI thing, which I feared at first. This is much better.