12 ms·

Fairphone 5

253 points by lars_francke 3y ago

rldjbpin 3y ago
i get that phones can last several years now, but it helps when you start with a good one. maybe i lucked out with the phone i chose, but what it offered for under 500 is still phones struggle to do 4+ years later (e.g. 4k 60fps recordings, baring the quality matter). meanwhile, this one is starting with an enterprise version of a dated midrange for a processor. while i keep respecting the mission they've managed to maintain, the oneplus-like price creep and catching up to the rest approach is not for everyone. but what you get is hard to argue if you'd *want* to use a phone like this after 8 years. also the audience that would commit to this phone also tends to be the most demanding, as you can see from other comments. i personally would've loved dp out over usb-C. it is indeed a tough market and i wish them the best.
Dharmaaa 3y ago
[dead]
raman162 3y ago
The fairphone now looks like the next phone I'll purchase when I need to. I'm still surviving off a pixel 2. The battery is crap but I always keep a portable on me to account for that.
itsTyrion 3y ago
6.46"? Why not rebrand it from fairphone to fairtab at this point?
samuell 3y ago
I see no mention of water proofness . To me, using a non-waterproof phone would be more wasteful even if it is a fairphone, because of the inevitable risk that it will be destroyed by moist too early. I must be able to cycle and run in the rain without risk to the phone. So, I'm afraid I'm sticking with my Sony for now :/
- lars_francke 3y ago
  The specs say IP55 None of my phones have been destroyed by moisture so it's not "inevitable" Which IP category does "water-proof" mean? I'm not an expert.
  - Sayrus 3y ago
    The several last Samsung Galaxy and iPhone are rated IP68. While it's considered water-resistant, it's usually called water-proof for a phone. Usually, you'll want IP X6 to begin calling it water-proof.
- catonmylap 3y ago
  It states IP55 in the specification, so don't take it for a dive.
- fbn79 3y ago
  Spare parts are expensive too. Fairphone 4 display is selling at 75 Euro. Samsung Galaxy M20 replacement screen that have same specs costs 25$.
  - walteweiss 3y ago
    I cannot believe the Samsung screen is so cheap. Is it genuine? Is it easy to replace yourself?
  - lucideer 3y ago
    Displays are the 2nd (sometimes 1st!) most expensive part of any phone (after mobo) - 75 as a % of the overall cost of the Fairphone is not a high %. The Galaxy M20 retails at a third of the price of the FP4...
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    I can't find any Samsung prices for the M20 screen. There are plenty of off-brand Chinese displays to be found, but none of them seem to have any guarantee of being genuine, original parts. If you're willing to go for a subpar screen replacement I suppose that's cheaper, but the two products serve completely different markets. A promise to keep a stock of replacement parts comes with higher prices, stripped screens from Chinese recyclers can sell replacement screens for much cheaper as long as supplies last.
smallerfish 3y ago
JerryRigEverything's teardown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1UJ5k3yMvA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1UJ5k3yMvA
terminous 3y ago
> Electronic-waste neutral: When you buy a Fairphone 5, we give a phone a new life or recycle the same amount of electronic waste. This means 100% compensation for the weight of electronics we put into the market. Making you phone e-waste neutral. You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. This seems as much of an accounting trick as carbon offsets, which don't really do anything. They could buy a bunch of used smartphones from a reseller market that probably would have been sold anyway, but Fairphone then resells them on the used market. Somehow, this means "100% compensation" for your purchase because they are giving another phone a new life.
- reedlaw 3y ago
  I would gladly use my Pixel 4a (5G) another few years but its support ends in two months [1]. Even though I run GrapheneOS, the open source community is not capable of maintaining firmware, kernel and vendor code [2]. 1. https://endoflife.date/pixel https://endoflife.date/pixel 2. https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices
  - gameoverhumans 3y ago
    I agree it's a shame that Google didn't do a better job with the older Pixel devices. It's worth noting, however, that all of their newer flagships (based on a CPU design they have more control over) have guaranteed security updates for 5 years after release. FWIW I despise Google and do my absolute best to avoid compensating them, but I do think things like their guaranteed security updates are a step in the right direction, and hopefully we can only get further improvements from here.
    - aziaziazi 3y ago
      5 years is too short, it means we need to buy at very least 10 brand new phones from 15yo to 60yo (oldies also need security updated right ?). We need a pocket device that do clock, agenda, media player, camera, web browser and obviously phone. Apps are great but can be replaced with on/offline sites. We’re going in a direction that sacrifice users and resources sustainability in favor of the economy. I’m not against economy but it should be a tool to empower humanity, not the opposite.
Sponge5 3y ago
I've had FP4 since the launch. I don't use a case and have dropped it a couple times, mostly on wood, but once on tiles. The screen hasn't cracked yet and I haven't had to do any repairs on it. All in all, good HW. Since owning it, the phone froze on me twice, once during the latest system update. Other than that, the SW seems solid. I've had an issue where the bottom SW buttons would disappear and not come back, but turns out, they come back with a swipe up. I don't particularly enjoy being in the walled gardens of Google, but feel that Apple is no better. Hopefully the EU regulation comes quick to allow me to install 3rd-party apps. In a perfect world, I'd be able to root the phone and still be able to use the banking app, but that won't happen ever. EDIT: By 3rd-party I mean apps from third-party app stores/package managers. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
- fersarr 3y ago
  Noob question perhaps: is there a way to maybe root the phone but have system profiles that are/look unrooted?
  - shrx 3y ago
    Magisk used to offer the root hiding functionality, but it looks like they removed it and it's only available as an external module now: https://droidwin.com/how-to-hide-root-from-apps-via-magisk-denylist/ https://droidwin.com/how-to-hide-root-from-apps-via-magisk-d...
- calini 3y ago
  Can't you already install 3rd party apps on Android?
  - Sponge5 3y ago
    Edited my comment
- dartharva 3y ago
  > I don't particularly enjoy being in the walled gardens of Google, but feel that Apple is no better. Hopefully the EU regulation comes quick to allow me to install 3rd-party apps. You.. can't install 3rd party apps? Really? Are you sure?
catonmylap 3y ago
I wish they would make a 5a version that is smaller and has lower specs and is therefore cheaper. I really like the idea of getting updates until 2031 and being able to just replace the battery.
- yosito 3y ago
  A €700 pricetag is already relatively low on the smartphone price spectrum.
  - Maken 3y ago
    A 700€ pricetag is definitely premium for me. I can understand why they have to charge that much for the Fairphone, but personally I have never spent more than 250€ on a phone (smart or not).
  - 9dev 3y ago
    It is not. You’re just not in the market for lower tier smartphones, but lot of people are.
    - Aachen 3y ago
      If you gifted them a 350€ phone and said it cost 1100€, I honestly be impressed if they'd notice without synthetic benchmarks or checking how many updates it'll still get. Make sure to pick a model with decent camera and oled screen, those are the noticeable differences, but there's no shortage of good options at that price point. Under 200 is where it gets tough.
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    There are a few too many compromises compared to other phones in this price range. I think you still have to consider the "Fair" in Fairphone to be a significant selling point. That's not a bad thing, but it's not going to go mainstream until it competes with other phones on everything else at their price point. Electric cars didn't go mainstream until Tesla (roughly) because before that they weren't competitive with mainstream cars in terms of performance, comfort, or other factors.
mendyberger 3y ago
Any idea if we can get it in North America?
- Vinnl 3y ago
  The Fairphone 4 was available via Murena, who will presumably also announce shipping the 5 today: https://mastodon.social/@murena/110967765299604592 https://mastodon.social/@murena/110967765299604592 Edit: ah, looks like they already do: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairphone-5/ https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho... Note that it does come with some markup and a degoogled OS.
  - cooperadymas 3y ago
    But not in the US. https://murena.com/america/murena-fairphone-5-availibility/ https://murena.com/america/murena-fairphone-5-availibility/
    - Vinnl 3y ago
      Oh damn, thanks for the update.
SSLy 3y ago
6.4" is wayy to big to be usable in my right hand.
- Aachen 3y ago
  And my left hand, for that matter
iknownothow 3y ago
Oof that stings. I bought a Fairphone 4 couple of months earlier after much deliberation about whether to wait for Fairphone 5 or not. I seemed to have missed out on: * +22% increased CPU GHz * ~40% increased performance on GPU benchmarks at same power consumption * D̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶S̶i̶m̶ * +7% battery * IP54 -> IP55 water resistance? * And almost every other metric that I don't care much about e.g. Network, Display and Camera. What's the F4 better at? * Slightly smaller display 6.30 inch vs 6.46 inch * ̶W̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶!̶ ̶I̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶F̶5̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶v̶i̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶F̶4̶ ̶(̶2̶2̶5̶ ̶g̶r̶a̶m̶s̶)̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶w̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶F̶5̶.̶ * No change in Audio jacks, both seem to still have a single USB C connector. I guess I'll just suck it up and wait for the Fairphone 6 or potentially Fairphone 7 in 5 years. EDIT: Two corrections. I wasn't aware F4 also has dual sim. Apparently F5 is lighter at 212 grams.
- Aachen 3y ago
  I bought the Fairphone 3 a few weeks before the 4 came out, but was able to sell it for nearly the original price. I wasn't happy with it anyway (and the FP4 didn't have a headphone jack so I got an S10e second hand, which also works 10x better — I'm happy to make compromises on top of paying extra but there are limits). Maybe that works for you too if it's still good as new
- frafra 3y ago
  Both Fairphone 4 and 5 are dual SIM (nanoSIM + eSIM).
- signaturefish 3y ago
  Yeah, same here: I upgraded to an FP4 about three months ago (from an increasingly-broken-down Samsung Galaxy S9), after puzzling for a while over whether I should wait for what looked like an imminent FP5 or just grab the FP4 that was available now. I don't regret my choice fwiw. The battery already lasts two days under my usage model, and the phone still has a five year warranty and OS support for another three years. I see that Fairphone are still selling some repair parts for FP2 and FP3, so I expect to be able to repair my phone through that whole time period unless something weird happens. The FP5 looks like a nice upgrade, but I don't feel short-changed: I got a new phone when my old one was failing, and it's not absolutely top-of-the-line, and that's fine. Like you, I'll think harder about the next round of upgrades (maybe to the FP6, maybe the FP7), and I'd love it if Fairphone were to be clearer about their release schedule, but I understand that they don't want to Osborne themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation#The_Osborne_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation#T...
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
I really wish GrapheneOS could be made to run on this. I know it probably can but not without quite a lot of work.
ittan 3y ago
Says the phone uses an IoT chipset. Unsure how the performance is when compared to mainstream mobility snapdragon chips.
- Sayrus 3y ago
  I'm curious about this as well, for all purposes the QCM6490 is made for Android and the benchmark I found seem to indicate that the TDP is half a Snapdragon 888 for ~30% less performance. The CPU looks pale in comparison to a Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 or Gen 2 but these are very high-end chips. I'm not sure how reliable these benchmark are and they don't indicate anything about actual power consumption or efficiency. I wonder if there are good and in-depth reviews for mobile CPUs.
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  Using an industrial chipset makes sense if you're trying to build phones with long-term software support.
mtlynch 3y ago
I was upgrading my Pixel 4a recently, and one of my top concerns was security updates. I wanted a phone that would continue receiving timely Android security fixes for at least 3 years, ideally 5+ years. I liked the idea of Fairphone, but I was skittish about their ability to fund a team to keep up with the latest Android updates for the next several years. Does anyone know how small players like this keep up with Android updates? I don't know much about how difficult it is to continue pushing Android updates out, but I assume it's at least somewhat difficult, as many of the major phone vendors do it so slowly and eventually stop after 2-3 years. I realize those vendors have perverse incentives to stop updates to encourage customers to upgrade phones, but I assume some of it is legitimate difficulty of continuing to provide the updates.
- Vinnl 3y ago
  I think they're focusing primarily on security updates, not Android updates in general (though a couple of those as well). And I believe they're also leaning heavily on the work of LineageOS, but don't hold me to that.
- schmuelio 3y ago
  I can't speculate on the extremely long term, but my fairphone 3 is still getting OS updates pretty regularly. Fairphone 3 was released 3 years ago and I think the last OS update I got was ~3 weeks ago, so they're at least doing 3 years, time will tell for 5+ though.
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  Fairphone 4 owner here. IMO Fairphone has a bit of a mixed record. On the one hand, they have proven themselves in the past with things like working with the community to get Android 10 ported to the Fairphone 2 [1]. On the other hand, they always seem to be pretty behind on security updates. They got particularly eviscerated by the GrapheneOS project lead [2]. My hot take is Fairphone is a pretty small company that is trying to fill too many niches at once. It's great that they're working on making the supply chain for gold less awful ([3]). It's also great that they're continuing to prove that repairable / user-upgradeable flagship(-ish) phones are possible. I originally chose Fairphone for those reasons, because they align with my values. Ultimately, though, I want a phone that I can rely on to be rock solid, secure, and highly usable. It's the thing I carry with me everywhere and rely on in emergencies, etc. To that end I recently ordered a used Pixel 6 Pro and plan to switch to that + GrapheneOS in the near future. I hope that Fairphone continues to succeed and help reform the (completely awful, IMO) mobile handset industry. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/23/22798512/fairphone-2-android-10-beta https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/23/22798512/fairphone-2-and... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_anyone_managed_to_install_grapheneos_on_a/j6fu6i1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_any... [3]: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2021/11/30/fairtrade-hirose/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/2021/11/30/fairtrade-hirose/
jokoon 3y ago
Mmmh, 5 years warranty, but if it uses android, I guess in 3 years the phone is going to slow down for a mysterious reason. What about in 6 years? By the way, I wish there was a trustworthy, technical investigation or study on why android slow down after a few years, what's the root cause, and how it can be justified.
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  Android slowdown is generally related to three things: shifting expectations because you can use the same outdated phone for seven years while apps get more demanding, flash storage and the battery wearing down, and half a decade of apps spawning listeners and messaging hooks on boot. Deleting a bunch of unused apps will quickly bring a slow Android system back to life. You can usually avoid this problem by looking for paid apps that aren't full of trackers and ads. If you're dealing with a slow phone, there is a wide variety of dev tools you can use to see what's going on. dumpsys will show you things like timers and memory allocations. It can also show you global or app specific battery drain statistics. Procstats will show you what apps used how much CPU over a specified period of time. Battery Historian will let you drill down into battery drain issues. In practice, you just need to remove that weather app you installed three years ago, though.
  - jokoon 3y ago
    I have always been very careful with all of this, I'm very picky with the app I install, and I uninstall things very easily and regularly. I rarely install a new app unless I'm going to use it. I had several phones that turned to a halt for no real good reason. Maybe it's the fault of the phone manufacturer and how it installs android, but to me it is still somewhat the fault of Android as a system and how it's designed. I have never used an Apple phone.
    - jeroenhd 3y ago
      I can't say my experience matches yours. What did it for me was using someone else's phone and realising how slow my phone has become in comparison, but that was mostly because of the advances in SoC technology. The phone was as fast as it ever was, everything around it just got a lot faster. Some apps have been rewritten from native code into Flutter/Jetpack Compose, heavily taxing the GPU (because modern phones, even cheap ones, have very powerful yet efficient GPUs in comparison to their predecessors); those run slower, but that's mostly only noticeable on older devices as newer devices get tested on. Then again, if I were to install the old APKs on my current phone, they would be blazing fast in comparison to their modern equivalent. Phones didn't need 6GB of RAM a few years ago and app developers have long stopped caring about performance, it seems. Downloading old APKs from apkmirror helps sometimes. When nothing else helps, factory resetting the phone can sometimes help but with modern Android I don't think that's much of an improvement anymore. I do have an old tablet with worn-down flash, but my OnePlus One still runs as fast as the day I got it (I think it may actually run faster because of ART upgrades?). It's no powerhouse by modern phone standards, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
suck-my-spez 3y ago
Would be all over this if GrapheneOS was supported
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  I think we're sadly a long way from that happening - as long as Fairphone continue to use Qualcomm SOCs and Qualcomm continue to have a terrible track record for planned obsolescence of their SOCs, lack of support for Linux kernel maintenance, etc.
- yankput 3y ago
  https://old.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_anyone_managed_to_install_grapheneos_on_a/j6fu6i1/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_any...
mrweasel 3y ago
To bad they didn't keep the speckled green color scheme. I really like that. As others have pointed out the screen is to large, personally I really don't want to go above the 4.7". The price seems reasonable, as compared to other phones, but still €500 above the value I place on phones, but that's not specific to Fairphone. I also wish they'd offer something other than Android, but I get why they don't.
- Aachen 3y ago
  They do? You can install Windows on it if you want, and I'm pretty sure all the linuxes will support it like with previous Fairphones. What OS can you install on any other phone that FP doesn't offer? e.g. here's the official manual for Ubuntu on FP4 https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/4436167982097-Fairphone-4-OS-manual-installation-with-Ubuntu https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/443616798209... Edit: I think I'm mistaken about Windows. On https://www.digitec.ch/de/page/fairphone-5-im-test-ein-smartphone-fuer-die-ewigkeit-29331 https://www.digitec.ch/de/page/fairphone-5-im-test-ein-smart... I read Windows 11 but that's about the chip being powerful enough to run that, not that the phone specifically supports it
  - gameoverhumans 3y ago
    Older FPs don't have particularly great Linux support, btw. That's mostly the fault of Qualcomm, though. https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_2_(fairphone-fp2) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_2_(fairphone-fp... https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_3_(fairphone-fp3) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_3_(fairphone-fp... https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_4_(fairphone-fp4) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_4_(fairphone-fp...
    - Vinnl 3y ago
      It appears they've worked with the right folks to at least give them pre-launch access, so there's also a page for the FP5 already: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp5) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp...
butterNaN 3y ago
If you want /e/OS (instead of Android), looks like the 'easy installer' is not available yet: https://doc.e.foundation/devices https://doc.e.foundation/devices Alternatively, Murena are selling FP5 with /e/OS pre-installed: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairphone-5/ https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho...
mendyberger 3y ago
Here's the launch video. Starts at about 9:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LINxz4GwaOQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LINxz4GwaOQ
nologic01 3y ago
I had a dream that I own a FP5 running Plasma Mobile [1]. Then I woke up and realized this is the real world and in the real world we can't have Good Things. [1] https://plasma-mobile.org/ https://plasma-mobile.org/
- Aachen 3y ago
  (Warning: link hijacks back button.) Why can't you run that on the FP5? Claim not found in source.
  - itsTyrion 3y ago
    what do you mean by "hijacks back button"? Works as it should on my end
  - nologic01 3y ago
    Well in theory you can or will be able soon [1] (there is commmunity support for FP4). But I don't want a device to tinker with. I want a reliable daily driver that is sustainable (repairable/replaceable), privacy focused, based on linux open source (convergent) and long-term supported by a well run entity. [1] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
    - Aachen 3y ago
      Edit: apparently they got the FP5 early and that's already got better support than the FP4 https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp5) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp... via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37320861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37320861 </edit> Wait, what does an "N" column mean? Surely basics like the battery, audio, camera, and GPS don't not work at all. If that's what this means, yeah I get that nobody should want to run that on this device. That's quite disappointing, but with the low volumes that FP is able to ship, I guess the volunteers on postmarket have to make choices Edit: five tables further down, there's a legend. Indeed, battery etc. is not just not tested or something, but actually tested not working. Weird, you'd think the battery works regardless of what software it runs o.O
gameoverhumans 3y ago
I posted in a comment elsewhere in this thread that I'm planning on transitioning soon from a Fairphone 4 to a Pixel 6 Pro + GrapheneOS. This announcement makes me even more sure of my choice, because it seems Fairphone are starting to lose their way. One of the reasons I really liked the company in the past was their commitment to extend the longevity of their flagships. They released a "plus upgrade" kit for both the FP2 and the FP3. To see them release a whole new flagship only a year or so after the FP4 release is ... a shame. Flatly put, their products aren't very good when you compare them to the "big" vendors like Samsung/Apple/Google. What differentiates them is their commitment to environmental sustainability, un-sucking the rare-metals supply chain, etc. If they're going to release a new flagship every year, how does that make them any better (from a sustainbility POV) to the morally and ethically bankrupt companies they're competing with?
- Nexxxeh 3y ago
  Are they discontinuing support for their previous phones any sooner? Are they cutting the warranty for them or stopping holding parts for them? Does the existence of a Fairphone 5 make any practical difference to an owner of an FP4? Or is it just the concern that some people will think, "Wah, this isn't the company's latest phone any more!" and upgrade sooner than they might otherwise?
  - gameoverhumans 3y ago
    > Are they discontinuing support for their previous phones any sooner? Are they cutting the warranty for them or stopping holding parts for them? Well obviously they can't back down on their promise to support FP4 for 5 years. But for example back in the FP2 era they went above and beyond and released Android 10 6 years after the release of the FP2. With more and more product lines to support, it seems less likely that such a thing would be feasible in future (limited resources and all that). > Does the existence of a Fairphone 5 make any practical difference to an owner of an FP4? Or is it just the concern that some people will think, "Wah, this isn't the company's latest phone any more!" and upgrade sooner than they might otherwise? A bit of both, I think. The reality is a lot of consumers are still in the mindset that there's no problem with their individual behavior ("it's the fault of Exxon that our planet is doomed, not little ol' me buying a new phone every year!"). So Fairphone is enabling that bad behaviour, here. Also, by matching the release cadence of the other companies, they're sending a signal that such a thing is okay (I think it isn't). Releasing "upgrade kits" that encourage consumers to extend the life of their handset by another couple of years, is a very different signal.
iuhaegpoinqhpoq 3y ago
- What is the black, solid round thing next to the rear cameras? - There are no hardware kill switches to turn the microphone and cameras off, are there? So if you don't trust smartphones to not be compromised you must always assume you're being filmed and recorded. (Yes, I know I am paranoid, you don't have to punish me with downvotes for that please. Instead please spread positivity by upvoting other people's comments, the effect is almost the same :) - The "hole punch" front camera makes it difficult to put e.g. duct tape over it to compensate for the lack of kill switches.
- Aachen 3y ago
  Fwiw, I used an EFF sticker on my old Note 2 front camera. The bezel nicely fit the sticker and it had some glue that let itself be removed and reapplied at least a dozen times. Not a perfect solution, but worked. I miss the sticker regularly, even after six years of having a phone without webcam sticker.
- PennRobotics 3y ago
  One question here is whether we should trust that Android 12+ has a proven 100% reliable method of showing the camera/microphone notification dot when these devices are being used. I wonder if Google's end game is for manufacturers to hardwire a power LED to the microphone and camera, as this would be close to a perfect system of notifying users they are being recorded, although there will always be a handful of reasons to oppose this and a handful of people adamant a hardwired power LED can still be bypassed without physical access to a device. ----- While annoying, you could just assume the pixels between the bezel and punch hole will almost never be useful and just put a thin, long tape piece over the entire edge. (The case would then conveniently keep it in place, where it can be temporarily flipped up.) ----- For the extreme privacy minded (e.g. a Richard Stallmann level of, uhh, prudence) you could probably pop out the modules holding the microphone and camera and then exclusively use a USB-C microphone/headset/webcam. Then usability comes down to whether the OS would continue to start with one of these peripherals missing, although in our experience with FP2 and 3, some of the microphones would sometimes fail with no other side effects. I imagine a missing camera would probably just crash the Camera app and any other you've given camera permission to.
skepticATX 3y ago
I’d love for this to come to the US, but I’d have a hard time switching because of iMessage. If you care about e2e encrypted messaging in the US, running an iPhone is really your only option. It’s a shame.
- esel2k 3y ago
  Is WhatsApp not common in the US? Here its the number 1 application but even without SMS is mostly unlimited free in all subscriptions.
  - skepticATX 3y ago
    It's not uncommon, but it's likely that the majority of people you communicate with will not actively use WhatsApp. iMessage truly is dominate, especially among younger people who lean towards iPhone even more.
    - abwizz 3y ago
      counterpoint from a euro, born around when linux came out. using an iphone for 5y+ and have never recieved or sent an imessage.
- dsauerbrun 3y ago
  I thought rcs provides this and is supposed to be a better alternative than iMessage... am I mistaken?
  - skepticATX 3y ago
    It does, but the majority of people in the US use iPhones so unless Apple decides to support it, it's somewhat irrelevant.
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  Afaik beeper app can work with iMessage no problem. They use a stack of iphones to provide this feature so you may want to check it
ploum 3y ago
I’ve been burned by Fairphone. Bought one only to realize a few months later that a new, incompatible model was released. And now yet another. https://ploum.net/2021-09-30.html https://ploum.net/2021-09-30.html How is that ecological ?
- Aachen 3y ago
  Already discussed in this subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37320327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37320327 The replies answer your question
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  So you thought fp is modular and surprised it's not? The out of stock is indeed a problem, question is, is this a temporary problem or outofstock forever? Fp never afaik promised a modular phone, just a phone with support for more years and easy to repair, not easy to upgrade. Fp4 is directed at new users, not at users of fp3, but you can still(afaik) send them fp3 to recycle and take a new fp4 if you want Modular phone is a wet dream for many, and it can be cool, but afaik bc of complexity it remains just a dream
onli 3y ago
A phone that wants to be sustainable but has no headphone jack is an oxymoron. The FP5 just isn't an option like this. Replaceable battery, SD-card slot and headphone jacks are the absolute minimum, otherwise the long software support and fair production just isn't enough. Especially not for the price, a bad compromise for 700€ is a no-go.
- Vinnl 3y ago
  IIRC the trade-off was: - Repairable - Headphone jack - ~~Water-proof~~ Water-resistant Choose two. They're all relevant to being sustainable, but I do think that of those three, the headphone jack is least relevant.
  - ChrisRR 3y ago
    Not waterproof, IP55 water resistant. Many 3.5mm jacks can absolutely manage IP55
    - Vinnl 3y ago
      Dammit, I was going back-and-forth between the two terms. Updated.
      - ChrisRR 3y ago
        There's a bit of back and forth between whether people consider IPX5 waterproof or not. Personally I think the layman expects waterproof to mean you can drop it in the bath and it won't get damaged. That occupies somewhere between IPX6 and IPX7 which is why it's a bit fuzzy
        PennRobotics 3y ago
        I'd counter that if you get water inside an IP68, it's screwed. (My Xperia got some moisture under the screen during a long bike tour through the rain, and it never really came back out.) Water seeping inside an IP55 because you drop it in the bath, sink, toilet, hurricane, etc? Turn the thing off right away, remove battery, get it in a box with desiccant, and it'll probably be fine in a day. If not? Still repairable.
the_third_wave 3y ago
One of the main selling points of these "fair" phones is that they are supposed to last longer than "unfair" phones. Seeing how as the main driver to get another phone for me has been the discontinuation of support by third parties like the Swedish BankID app - which first forced me to get another phone when they discontinued support for Android 4.4 and now is about to do the same when they insist on the device having NFC - and given that I actually still use all Android devices I ever had - the oldest are getting close to 13 years now - I do not consider this "fair" phone any more "fair" than those I have in use. I only get devices which can run AOSP-derived distributions so software longevity is more or less guaranteed (within the limits of the hardware, e.g. the 512 MB single core Motorola Defy won't run anything beyond 4.4), I repair what is broken (...which tend to be my wife and children's devices even though I use the things on the farm and in the woods, go figure...) and have yet to throw away a single phone. This, to me, is fair enough. I'm also quite fed up with the '...for a better planet' greenwash-posturing by any and all commercial actors so there's that as well.
gidorah 3y ago
I only got my FP4 last year, but def going to upgrade to this straight away.
pshirshov 3y ago
A Pixel with GrapheneOS seems to be a lot better choice, considering the price.
- was_a_dev 3y ago
  This is my intended upgrade path once my FP3 kicks it
maufl 3y ago
Do we know whether the camera will rely on DRMed drivers for good quality, like with Sony phones? Or is there hope that the camera would work well with a Linux distribution based on PostmarketOS?
solarkraft 3y ago
Of course I'll wait for reviews, but on first look this just doesn't seem good enough to replace the FP4. It STILL has no headphone jack. It STILL seems to be oversized. I kind of doubt that it'll feel much better in the hand (but we'll see). Maybe the camera is that much better, but why couldn't they have sold an upgraded FP4? Every new model muddies the supply chain making it harder to support existing models, after all.
- cooperadymas 3y ago
  It's not meant to replace the FP4 for people who already use it. The entire point of Fairphone is you can continue to use your phone for 5-7 years because you don't want to upgrade every year. The FP5 is intended to keep their product modern to bring in new users. Consider that the FP4 came out in 2021 and is supported through 2027. It's 2 years old now, which is fine for people who want to use it. They still have 5 years of life on it. But if someone is considering ditching their old Pixel 4 which is no longer receiving updates, are they going to want to buy a phone which is already 2 years old? Probably not. If Fairphone didn't release a new phone until the release cycle of the current one ended then the only option people would have is buying 6 year old phones. They still have to make regular updates in order to attract new customers. They are banking on a customer base that does not feel the need to upgrade to the latest and greatest every 1-2 years.
  - aembleton 3y ago
    Also, if they keep older phone designs in production then they'll have to reduce the length of time that they can support them for as their suppliers such as Qualcomm won't support them for as long.
_chu1 3y ago
No headphone jack. 100% dealbreaker and makes it seem like greenwashing. I might consider a Sony phone when my Pixel 5a either falls apart or becomes a smoldering crater, as they seem to support the custom ROM scene pretty well by open-sourcing their kernels. I quite literally do not care about waterproofing or IP ratings or whatever because the few times I've gotten my phone almost seriously water damaged they've never died.
- cooperadymas 3y ago
  Can you draw the line between how a lack of a niche specific feature makes it greenwashing? A feature, which btw, nearly every major manufacturer has abandoned. I think it's pretty clear that most people do not care about a headphone jack, but do care about water resistance ratings.
  - _chu1 3y ago
    My Pixel 5a has one and I think every single phone by Sony still has one. How is wanting to use audio equipment a niche? And even if so, you would expect the people buying a phone like this to want such a feature.
dmitrybrant 3y ago
Love the concept, and might even consider getting one. But please, please let me have my scrollbar when browsing your website.
nazgulnarsil 3y ago
List of phones in 2023 with screen sizes under 6 inches: Zen phone 10 End of list
j3s 3y ago
i've always been a little conflicted about fairphone. i like what they're doing in some ways (repairability, promise of a longer phone lifespan), but when I read quotes like this: > According to the company, increasing the lifespan of a phone by two years reduces CO₂ emissions by 30%.[4] i can't help but feel like i'm being lied to. cutting (a portion of) consumer smartphone emissions by 30% strikes me as an irrelevant drop in the bucket. companies hyping up how moral/virtuous they are in order to _sell products_ to a compassionate corner of a market always come off as disingenuous to me. i would rather fairphone just focused on lifespan and repairability & left the "saving the environment" spin completely alone. it's fine to target using conflict-free minerals and reduce carbon emissions - but marketing that as an advantage of buying the phone is really slimy.
- Vinnl 3y ago
  It's not so much an advantage of buying this particular phone; it's an advantage of pushing the entire industry to move in that direction. Either through market pressure, or though paving a path for regulation by showing what can be done.
ranguna 3y ago
No usb c displayport alt mode? Man that sucks.
ElectronBadger 3y ago
When time comes, I'll replace my Fairphone 3+ with 5.

253 points by lars_francke 3y ago

i get that phones can last several years now, but it helps when you start with a good one. maybe i lucked out with the phone i chose, but what it offered for under 500 is still phones struggle to do 4+ years later (e.g. 4k 60fps recordings, baring the quality matter). meanwhile, this one is starting with an enterprise version of a dated midrange for a processor. while i keep respecting the mission they've managed to maintain, the oneplus-like price creep and catching up to the rest approach is not for everyone. but what you get is hard to argue if you'd *want* to use a phone like this after 8 years. also the audience that would commit to this phone also tends to be the most demanding, as you can see from other comments. i personally would've loved dp out over usb-C. it is indeed a tough market and i wish them the best.

Dharmaaa 3y ago

[dead]

raman162 3y ago

The fairphone now looks like the next phone I'll purchase when I need to. I'm still surviving off a pixel 2. The battery is crap but I always keep a portable on me to account for that.

itsTyrion 3y ago

6.46"? Why not rebrand it from fairphone to fairtab at this point?

samuell 3y ago

I see no mention of water proofness . To me, using a non-waterproof phone would be more wasteful even if it is a fairphone, because of the inevitable risk that it will be destroyed by moist too early. I must be able to cycle and run in the rain without risk to the phone. So, I'm afraid I'm sticking with my Sony for now :/

lars_francke 3y ago
The specs say IP55 None of my phones have been destroyed by moisture so it's not "inevitable" Which IP category does "water-proof" mean? I'm not an expert.
- Sayrus 3y ago
  The several last Samsung Galaxy and iPhone are rated IP68. While it's considered water-resistant, it's usually called water-proof for a phone. Usually, you'll want IP X6 to begin calling it water-proof.
catonmylap 3y ago
It states IP55 in the specification, so don't take it for a dive.
fbn79 3y ago
Spare parts are expensive too. Fairphone 4 display is selling at 75 Euro. Samsung Galaxy M20 replacement screen that have same specs costs 25$.
- walteweiss 3y ago
  I cannot believe the Samsung screen is so cheap. Is it genuine? Is it easy to replace yourself?
- lucideer 3y ago
  Displays are the 2nd (sometimes 1st!) most expensive part of any phone (after mobo) - 75 as a % of the overall cost of the Fairphone is not a high %. The Galaxy M20 retails at a third of the price of the FP4...
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  I can't find any Samsung prices for the M20 screen. There are plenty of off-brand Chinese displays to be found, but none of them seem to have any guarantee of being genuine, original parts. If you're willing to go for a subpar screen replacement I suppose that's cheaper, but the two products serve completely different markets. A promise to keep a stock of replacement parts comes with higher prices, stripped screens from Chinese recyclers can sell replacement screens for much cheaper as long as supplies last.

smallerfish 3y ago

JerryRigEverything's teardown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1UJ5k3yMvA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1UJ5k3yMvA

terminous 3y ago

> Electronic-waste neutral: When you buy a Fairphone 5, we give a phone a new life or recycle the same amount of electronic waste. This means 100% compensation for the weight of electronics we put into the market. Making you phone e-waste neutral. You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. This seems as much of an accounting trick as carbon offsets, which don't really do anything. They could buy a bunch of used smartphones from a reseller market that probably would have been sold anyway, but Fairphone then resells them on the used market. Somehow, this means "100% compensation" for your purchase because they are giving another phone a new life.

reedlaw 3y ago
I would gladly use my Pixel 4a (5G) another few years but its support ends in two months [1]. Even though I run GrapheneOS, the open source community is not capable of maintaining firmware, kernel and vendor code [2]. 1. https://endoflife.date/pixel https://endoflife.date/pixel 2. https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  I agree it's a shame that Google didn't do a better job with the older Pixel devices. It's worth noting, however, that all of their newer flagships (based on a CPU design they have more control over) have guaranteed security updates for 5 years after release. FWIW I despise Google and do my absolute best to avoid compensating them, but I do think things like their guaranteed security updates are a step in the right direction, and hopefully we can only get further improvements from here.
  - aziaziazi 3y ago
    5 years is too short, it means we need to buy at very least 10 brand new phones from 15yo to 60yo (oldies also need security updated right ?). We need a pocket device that do clock, agenda, media player, camera, web browser and obviously phone. Apps are great but can be replaced with on/offline sites. We’re going in a direction that sacrifice users and resources sustainability in favor of the economy. I’m not against economy but it should be a tool to empower humanity, not the opposite.

Sponge5 3y ago

I've had FP4 since the launch. I don't use a case and have dropped it a couple times, mostly on wood, but once on tiles. The screen hasn't cracked yet and I haven't had to do any repairs on it. All in all, good HW. Since owning it, the phone froze on me twice, once during the latest system update. Other than that, the SW seems solid. I've had an issue where the bottom SW buttons would disappear and not come back, but turns out, they come back with a swipe up. I don't particularly enjoy being in the walled gardens of Google, but feel that Apple is no better. Hopefully the EU regulation comes quick to allow me to install 3rd-party apps. In a perfect world, I'd be able to root the phone and still be able to use the banking app, but that won't happen ever. EDIT: By 3rd-party I mean apps from third-party app stores/package managers. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

fersarr 3y ago
Noob question perhaps: is there a way to maybe root the phone but have system profiles that are/look unrooted?
- shrx 3y ago
  Magisk used to offer the root hiding functionality, but it looks like they removed it and it's only available as an external module now: https://droidwin.com/how-to-hide-root-from-apps-via-magisk-denylist/ https://droidwin.com/how-to-hide-root-from-apps-via-magisk-d...
calini 3y ago
Can't you already install 3rd party apps on Android?
- Sponge5 3y ago
  Edited my comment
dartharva 3y ago
> I don't particularly enjoy being in the walled gardens of Google, but feel that Apple is no better. Hopefully the EU regulation comes quick to allow me to install 3rd-party apps. You.. can't install 3rd party apps? Really? Are you sure?

catonmylap 3y ago

I wish they would make a 5a version that is smaller and has lower specs and is therefore cheaper. I really like the idea of getting updates until 2031 and being able to just replace the battery.

yosito 3y ago
A €700 pricetag is already relatively low on the smartphone price spectrum.
- Maken 3y ago
  A 700€ pricetag is definitely premium for me. I can understand why they have to charge that much for the Fairphone, but personally I have never spent more than 250€ on a phone (smart or not).
- 9dev 3y ago
  It is not. You’re just not in the market for lower tier smartphones, but lot of people are.
  - Aachen 3y ago
    If you gifted them a 350€ phone and said it cost 1100€, I honestly be impressed if they'd notice without synthetic benchmarks or checking how many updates it'll still get. Make sure to pick a model with decent camera and oled screen, those are the noticeable differences, but there's no shortage of good options at that price point. Under 200 is where it gets tough.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  There are a few too many compromises compared to other phones in this price range. I think you still have to consider the "Fair" in Fairphone to be a significant selling point. That's not a bad thing, but it's not going to go mainstream until it competes with other phones on everything else at their price point. Electric cars didn't go mainstream until Tesla (roughly) because before that they weren't competitive with mainstream cars in terms of performance, comfort, or other factors.

mendyberger 3y ago

Any idea if we can get it in North America?

Vinnl 3y ago
The Fairphone 4 was available via Murena, who will presumably also announce shipping the 5 today: https://mastodon.social/@murena/110967765299604592 https://mastodon.social/@murena/110967765299604592 Edit: ah, looks like they already do: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairphone-5/ https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho... Note that it does come with some markup and a degoogled OS.
- cooperadymas 3y ago
  But not in the US. https://murena.com/america/murena-fairphone-5-availibility/ https://murena.com/america/murena-fairphone-5-availibility/
  - Vinnl 3y ago
    Oh damn, thanks for the update.

SSLy 3y ago

6.4" is wayy to big to be usable in my right hand.

Aachen 3y ago
And my left hand, for that matter

iknownothow 3y ago

Oof that stings. I bought a Fairphone 4 couple of months earlier after much deliberation about whether to wait for Fairphone 5 or not. I seemed to have missed out on: * +22% increased CPU GHz * ~40% increased performance on GPU benchmarks at same power consumption * D̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶S̶i̶m̶ * +7% battery * IP54 -> IP55 water resistance? * And almost every other metric that I don't care much about e.g. Network, Display and Camera. What's the F4 better at? * Slightly smaller display 6.30 inch vs 6.46 inch * ̶W̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶!̶ ̶I̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶F̶5̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶v̶i̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶F̶4̶ ̶(̶2̶2̶5̶ ̶g̶r̶a̶m̶s̶)̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶w̶e̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶F̶5̶.̶ * No change in Audio jacks, both seem to still have a single USB C connector. I guess I'll just suck it up and wait for the Fairphone 6 or potentially Fairphone 7 in 5 years. EDIT: Two corrections. I wasn't aware F4 also has dual sim. Apparently F5 is lighter at 212 grams.

Aachen 3y ago
I bought the Fairphone 3 a few weeks before the 4 came out, but was able to sell it for nearly the original price. I wasn't happy with it anyway (and the FP4 didn't have a headphone jack so I got an S10e second hand, which also works 10x better — I'm happy to make compromises on top of paying extra but there are limits). Maybe that works for you too if it's still good as new
frafra 3y ago
Both Fairphone 4 and 5 are dual SIM (nanoSIM + eSIM).
signaturefish 3y ago
Yeah, same here: I upgraded to an FP4 about three months ago (from an increasingly-broken-down Samsung Galaxy S9), after puzzling for a while over whether I should wait for what looked like an imminent FP5 or just grab the FP4 that was available now. I don't regret my choice fwiw. The battery already lasts two days under my usage model, and the phone still has a five year warranty and OS support for another three years. I see that Fairphone are still selling some repair parts for FP2 and FP3, so I expect to be able to repair my phone through that whole time period unless something weird happens. The FP5 looks like a nice upgrade, but I don't feel short-changed: I got a new phone when my old one was failing, and it's not absolutely top-of-the-line, and that's fine. Like you, I'll think harder about the next round of upgrades (maybe to the FP6, maybe the FP7), and I'd love it if Fairphone were to be clearer about their release schedule, but I understand that they don't want to Osborne themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation#The_Osborne_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Computer_Corporation#T...

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

I really wish GrapheneOS could be made to run on this. I know it probably can but not without quite a lot of work.

ittan 3y ago

Says the phone uses an IoT chipset. Unsure how the performance is when compared to mainstream mobility snapdragon chips.

Sayrus 3y ago
I'm curious about this as well, for all purposes the QCM6490 is made for Android and the benchmark I found seem to indicate that the TDP is half a Snapdragon 888 for ~30% less performance. The CPU looks pale in comparison to a Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 or Gen 2 but these are very high-end chips. I'm not sure how reliable these benchmark are and they don't indicate anything about actual power consumption or efficiency. I wonder if there are good and in-depth reviews for mobile CPUs.
jeroenhd 3y ago
Using an industrial chipset makes sense if you're trying to build phones with long-term software support.

mtlynch 3y ago

I was upgrading my Pixel 4a recently, and one of my top concerns was security updates. I wanted a phone that would continue receiving timely Android security fixes for at least 3 years, ideally 5+ years. I liked the idea of Fairphone, but I was skittish about their ability to fund a team to keep up with the latest Android updates for the next several years. Does anyone know how small players like this keep up with Android updates? I don't know much about how difficult it is to continue pushing Android updates out, but I assume it's at least somewhat difficult, as many of the major phone vendors do it so slowly and eventually stop after 2-3 years. I realize those vendors have perverse incentives to stop updates to encourage customers to upgrade phones, but I assume some of it is legitimate difficulty of continuing to provide the updates.

Vinnl 3y ago
I think they're focusing primarily on security updates, not Android updates in general (though a couple of those as well). And I believe they're also leaning heavily on the work of LineageOS, but don't hold me to that.
schmuelio 3y ago
I can't speculate on the extremely long term, but my fairphone 3 is still getting OS updates pretty regularly. Fairphone 3 was released 3 years ago and I think the last OS update I got was ~3 weeks ago, so they're at least doing 3 years, time will tell for 5+ though.
gameoverhumans 3y ago
Fairphone 4 owner here. IMO Fairphone has a bit of a mixed record. On the one hand, they have proven themselves in the past with things like working with the community to get Android 10 ported to the Fairphone 2 [1]. On the other hand, they always seem to be pretty behind on security updates. They got particularly eviscerated by the GrapheneOS project lead [2]. My hot take is Fairphone is a pretty small company that is trying to fill too many niches at once. It's great that they're working on making the supply chain for gold less awful ([3]). It's also great that they're continuing to prove that repairable / user-upgradeable flagship(-ish) phones are possible. I originally chose Fairphone for those reasons, because they align with my values. Ultimately, though, I want a phone that I can rely on to be rock solid, secure, and highly usable. It's the thing I carry with me everywhere and rely on in emergencies, etc. To that end I recently ordered a used Pixel 6 Pro and plan to switch to that + GrapheneOS in the near future. I hope that Fairphone continues to succeed and help reform the (completely awful, IMO) mobile handset industry. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/23/22798512/fairphone-2-android-10-beta https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/23/22798512/fairphone-2-and... [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_anyone_managed_to_install_grapheneos_on_a/j6fu6i1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_any... [3]: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2021/11/30/fairtrade-hirose/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/2021/11/30/fairtrade-hirose/

jokoon 3y ago

Mmmh, 5 years warranty, but if it uses android, I guess in 3 years the phone is going to slow down for a mysterious reason. What about in 6 years? By the way, I wish there was a trustworthy, technical investigation or study on why android slow down after a few years, what's the root cause, and how it can be justified.

jeroenhd 3y ago
Android slowdown is generally related to three things: shifting expectations because you can use the same outdated phone for seven years while apps get more demanding, flash storage and the battery wearing down, and half a decade of apps spawning listeners and messaging hooks on boot. Deleting a bunch of unused apps will quickly bring a slow Android system back to life. You can usually avoid this problem by looking for paid apps that aren't full of trackers and ads. If you're dealing with a slow phone, there is a wide variety of dev tools you can use to see what's going on. dumpsys will show you things like timers and memory allocations. It can also show you global or app specific battery drain statistics. Procstats will show you what apps used how much CPU over a specified period of time. Battery Historian will let you drill down into battery drain issues. In practice, you just need to remove that weather app you installed three years ago, though.
- jokoon 3y ago
  I have always been very careful with all of this, I'm very picky with the app I install, and I uninstall things very easily and regularly. I rarely install a new app unless I'm going to use it. I had several phones that turned to a halt for no real good reason. Maybe it's the fault of the phone manufacturer and how it installs android, but to me it is still somewhat the fault of Android as a system and how it's designed. I have never used an Apple phone.
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    I can't say my experience matches yours. What did it for me was using someone else's phone and realising how slow my phone has become in comparison, but that was mostly because of the advances in SoC technology. The phone was as fast as it ever was, everything around it just got a lot faster. Some apps have been rewritten from native code into Flutter/Jetpack Compose, heavily taxing the GPU (because modern phones, even cheap ones, have very powerful yet efficient GPUs in comparison to their predecessors); those run slower, but that's mostly only noticeable on older devices as newer devices get tested on. Then again, if I were to install the old APKs on my current phone, they would be blazing fast in comparison to their modern equivalent. Phones didn't need 6GB of RAM a few years ago and app developers have long stopped caring about performance, it seems. Downloading old APKs from apkmirror helps sometimes. When nothing else helps, factory resetting the phone can sometimes help but with modern Android I don't think that's much of an improvement anymore. I do have an old tablet with worn-down flash, but my OnePlus One still runs as fast as the day I got it (I think it may actually run faster because of ART upgrades?). It's no powerhouse by modern phone standards, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

suck-my-spez 3y ago

Would be all over this if GrapheneOS was supported

gameoverhumans 3y ago
I think we're sadly a long way from that happening - as long as Fairphone continue to use Qualcomm SOCs and Qualcomm continue to have a terrible track record for planned obsolescence of their SOCs, lack of support for Linux kernel maintenance, etc.
yankput 3y ago
https://old.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_anyone_managed_to_install_grapheneos_on_a/j6fu6i1/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/10b5x4n/has_any...

mrweasel 3y ago

To bad they didn't keep the speckled green color scheme. I really like that. As others have pointed out the screen is to large, personally I really don't want to go above the 4.7". The price seems reasonable, as compared to other phones, but still €500 above the value I place on phones, but that's not specific to Fairphone. I also wish they'd offer something other than Android, but I get why they don't.

Aachen 3y ago
They do? You can install Windows on it if you want, and I'm pretty sure all the linuxes will support it like with previous Fairphones. What OS can you install on any other phone that FP doesn't offer? e.g. here's the official manual for Ubuntu on FP4 https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/4436167982097-Fairphone-4-OS-manual-installation-with-Ubuntu https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/443616798209... Edit: I think I'm mistaken about Windows. On https://www.digitec.ch/de/page/fairphone-5-im-test-ein-smartphone-fuer-die-ewigkeit-29331 https://www.digitec.ch/de/page/fairphone-5-im-test-ein-smart... I read Windows 11 but that's about the chip being powerful enough to run that, not that the phone specifically supports it
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  Older FPs don't have particularly great Linux support, btw. That's mostly the fault of Qualcomm, though. https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_2_(fairphone-fp2) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_2_(fairphone-fp... https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_3_(fairphone-fp3) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_3_(fairphone-fp... https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_4_(fairphone-fp4) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_4_(fairphone-fp...
  - Vinnl 3y ago
    It appears they've worked with the right folks to at least give them pre-launch access, so there's also a page for the FP5 already: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp5) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp...

butterNaN 3y ago

If you want /e/OS (instead of Android), looks like the 'easy installer' is not available yet: https://doc.e.foundation/devices https://doc.e.foundation/devices Alternatively, Murena are selling FP5 with /e/OS pre-installed: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairphone-5/ https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho...

mendyberger 3y ago

Here's the launch video. Starts at about 9:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LINxz4GwaOQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LINxz4GwaOQ

nologic01 3y ago

I had a dream that I own a FP5 running Plasma Mobile [1]. Then I woke up and realized this is the real world and in the real world we can't have Good Things. [1] https://plasma-mobile.org/ https://plasma-mobile.org/

Aachen 3y ago
(Warning: link hijacks back button.) Why can't you run that on the FP5? Claim not found in source.
- itsTyrion 3y ago
  what do you mean by "hijacks back button"? Works as it should on my end
- nologic01 3y ago
  Well in theory you can or will be able soon [1] (there is commmunity support for FP4). But I don't want a device to tinker with. I want a reliable daily driver that is sustainable (repairable/replaceable), privacy focused, based on linux open source (convergent) and long-term supported by a well run entity. [1] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
  - Aachen 3y ago
    Edit: apparently they got the FP5 early and that's already got better support than the FP4 https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp5) https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fairphone_5_(fairphone-fp... via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37320861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37320861 </edit> Wait, what does an "N" column mean? Surely basics like the battery, audio, camera, and GPS don't not work at all. If that's what this means, yeah I get that nobody should want to run that on this device. That's quite disappointing, but with the low volumes that FP is able to ship, I guess the volunteers on postmarket have to make choices Edit: five tables further down, there's a legend. Indeed, battery etc. is not just not tested or something, but actually tested not working. Weird, you'd think the battery works regardless of what software it runs o.O

gameoverhumans 3y ago

I posted in a comment elsewhere in this thread that I'm planning on transitioning soon from a Fairphone 4 to a Pixel 6 Pro + GrapheneOS. This announcement makes me even more sure of my choice, because it seems Fairphone are starting to lose their way. One of the reasons I really liked the company in the past was their commitment to extend the longevity of their flagships. They released a "plus upgrade" kit for both the FP2 and the FP3. To see them release a whole new flagship only a year or so after the FP4 release is ... a shame. Flatly put, their products aren't very good when you compare them to the "big" vendors like Samsung/Apple/Google. What differentiates them is their commitment to environmental sustainability, un-sucking the rare-metals supply chain, etc. If they're going to release a new flagship every year, how does that make them any better (from a sustainbility POV) to the morally and ethically bankrupt companies they're competing with?

Nexxxeh 3y ago
Are they discontinuing support for their previous phones any sooner? Are they cutting the warranty for them or stopping holding parts for them? Does the existence of a Fairphone 5 make any practical difference to an owner of an FP4? Or is it just the concern that some people will think, "Wah, this isn't the company's latest phone any more!" and upgrade sooner than they might otherwise?
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  > Are they discontinuing support for their previous phones any sooner? Are they cutting the warranty for them or stopping holding parts for them? Well obviously they can't back down on their promise to support FP4 for 5 years. But for example back in the FP2 era they went above and beyond and released Android 10 6 years after the release of the FP2. With more and more product lines to support, it seems less likely that such a thing would be feasible in future (limited resources and all that). > Does the existence of a Fairphone 5 make any practical difference to an owner of an FP4? Or is it just the concern that some people will think, "Wah, this isn't the company's latest phone any more!" and upgrade sooner than they might otherwise? A bit of both, I think. The reality is a lot of consumers are still in the mindset that there's no problem with their individual behavior ("it's the fault of Exxon that our planet is doomed, not little ol' me buying a new phone every year!"). So Fairphone is enabling that bad behaviour, here. Also, by matching the release cadence of the other companies, they're sending a signal that such a thing is okay (I think it isn't). Releasing "upgrade kits" that encourage consumers to extend the life of their handset by another couple of years, is a very different signal.

iuhaegpoinqhpoq 3y ago

- What is the black, solid round thing next to the rear cameras? - There are no hardware kill switches to turn the microphone and cameras off, are there? So if you don't trust smartphones to not be compromised you must always assume you're being filmed and recorded. (Yes, I know I am paranoid, you don't have to punish me with downvotes for that please. Instead please spread positivity by upvoting other people's comments, the effect is almost the same :) - The "hole punch" front camera makes it difficult to put e.g. duct tape over it to compensate for the lack of kill switches.

Aachen 3y ago
Fwiw, I used an EFF sticker on my old Note 2 front camera. The bezel nicely fit the sticker and it had some glue that let itself be removed and reapplied at least a dozen times. Not a perfect solution, but worked. I miss the sticker regularly, even after six years of having a phone without webcam sticker.
PennRobotics 3y ago
One question here is whether we should trust that Android 12+ has a proven 100% reliable method of showing the camera/microphone notification dot when these devices are being used. I wonder if Google's end game is for manufacturers to hardwire a power LED to the microphone and camera, as this would be close to a perfect system of notifying users they are being recorded, although there will always be a handful of reasons to oppose this and a handful of people adamant a hardwired power LED can still be bypassed without physical access to a device. ----- While annoying, you could just assume the pixels between the bezel and punch hole will almost never be useful and just put a thin, long tape piece over the entire edge. (The case would then conveniently keep it in place, where it can be temporarily flipped up.) ----- For the extreme privacy minded (e.g. a Richard Stallmann level of, uhh, prudence) you could probably pop out the modules holding the microphone and camera and then exclusively use a USB-C microphone/headset/webcam. Then usability comes down to whether the OS would continue to start with one of these peripherals missing, although in our experience with FP2 and 3, some of the microphones would sometimes fail with no other side effects. I imagine a missing camera would probably just crash the Camera app and any other you've given camera permission to.

skepticATX 3y ago

I’d love for this to come to the US, but I’d have a hard time switching because of iMessage. If you care about e2e encrypted messaging in the US, running an iPhone is really your only option. It’s a shame.

esel2k 3y ago
Is WhatsApp not common in the US? Here its the number 1 application but even without SMS is mostly unlimited free in all subscriptions.
- skepticATX 3y ago
  It's not uncommon, but it's likely that the majority of people you communicate with will not actively use WhatsApp. iMessage truly is dominate, especially among younger people who lean towards iPhone even more.
  - abwizz 3y ago
    counterpoint from a euro, born around when linux came out. using an iphone for 5y+ and have never recieved or sent an imessage.
dsauerbrun 3y ago
I thought rcs provides this and is supposed to be a better alternative than iMessage... am I mistaken?
- skepticATX 3y ago
  It does, but the majority of people in the US use iPhones so unless Apple decides to support it, it's somewhat irrelevant.
Moldoteck 3y ago
Afaik beeper app can work with iMessage no problem. They use a stack of iphones to provide this feature so you may want to check it

ploum 3y ago

I’ve been burned by Fairphone. Bought one only to realize a few months later that a new, incompatible model was released. And now yet another. https://ploum.net/2021-09-30.html https://ploum.net/2021-09-30.html How is that ecological ?

Aachen 3y ago
Already discussed in this subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37320327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37320327 The replies answer your question
Moldoteck 3y ago
So you thought fp is modular and surprised it's not? The out of stock is indeed a problem, question is, is this a temporary problem or outofstock forever? Fp never afaik promised a modular phone, just a phone with support for more years and easy to repair, not easy to upgrade. Fp4 is directed at new users, not at users of fp3, but you can still(afaik) send them fp3 to recycle and take a new fp4 if you want Modular phone is a wet dream for many, and it can be cool, but afaik bc of complexity it remains just a dream

onli 3y ago

A phone that wants to be sustainable but has no headphone jack is an oxymoron. The FP5 just isn't an option like this. Replaceable battery, SD-card slot and headphone jacks are the absolute minimum, otherwise the long software support and fair production just isn't enough. Especially not for the price, a bad compromise for 700€ is a no-go.

Vinnl 3y ago
IIRC the trade-off was: - Repairable - Headphone jack - ~~Water-proof~~ Water-resistant Choose two. They're all relevant to being sustainable, but I do think that of those three, the headphone jack is least relevant.
- ChrisRR 3y ago
  Not waterproof, IP55 water resistant. Many 3.5mm jacks can absolutely manage IP55
  - Vinnl 3y ago
    Dammit, I was going back-and-forth between the two terms. Updated.
    - ChrisRR 3y ago
      There's a bit of back and forth between whether people consider IPX5 waterproof or not. Personally I think the layman expects waterproof to mean you can drop it in the bath and it won't get damaged. That occupies somewhere between IPX6 and IPX7 which is why it's a bit fuzzy
      - PennRobotics 3y ago
        I'd counter that if you get water inside an IP68, it's screwed. (My Xperia got some moisture under the screen during a long bike tour through the rain, and it never really came back out.) Water seeping inside an IP55 because you drop it in the bath, sink, toilet, hurricane, etc? Turn the thing off right away, remove battery, get it in a box with desiccant, and it'll probably be fine in a day. If not? Still repairable.

the_third_wave 3y ago

One of the main selling points of these "fair" phones is that they are supposed to last longer than "unfair" phones. Seeing how as the main driver to get another phone for me has been the discontinuation of support by third parties like the Swedish BankID app - which first forced me to get another phone when they discontinued support for Android 4.4 and now is about to do the same when they insist on the device having NFC - and given that I actually still use all Android devices I ever had - the oldest are getting close to 13 years now - I do not consider this "fair" phone any more "fair" than those I have in use. I only get devices which can run AOSP-derived distributions so software longevity is more or less guaranteed (within the limits of the hardware, e.g. the 512 MB single core Motorola Defy won't run anything beyond 4.4), I repair what is broken (...which tend to be my wife and children's devices even though I use the things on the farm and in the woods, go figure...) and have yet to throw away a single phone. This, to me, is fair enough. I'm also quite fed up with the '...for a better planet' greenwash-posturing by any and all commercial actors so there's that as well.

gidorah 3y ago

I only got my FP4 last year, but def going to upgrade to this straight away.

pshirshov 3y ago

A Pixel with GrapheneOS seems to be a lot better choice, considering the price.

was_a_dev 3y ago
This is my intended upgrade path once my FP3 kicks it

maufl 3y ago

Do we know whether the camera will rely on DRMed drivers for good quality, like with Sony phones? Or is there hope that the camera would work well with a Linux distribution based on PostmarketOS?

solarkraft 3y ago

Of course I'll wait for reviews, but on first look this just doesn't seem good enough to replace the FP4. It STILL has no headphone jack. It STILL seems to be oversized. I kind of doubt that it'll feel much better in the hand (but we'll see). Maybe the camera is that much better, but why couldn't they have sold an upgraded FP4? Every new model muddies the supply chain making it harder to support existing models, after all.

cooperadymas 3y ago
It's not meant to replace the FP4 for people who already use it. The entire point of Fairphone is you can continue to use your phone for 5-7 years because you don't want to upgrade every year. The FP5 is intended to keep their product modern to bring in new users. Consider that the FP4 came out in 2021 and is supported through 2027. It's 2 years old now, which is fine for people who want to use it. They still have 5 years of life on it. But if someone is considering ditching their old Pixel 4 which is no longer receiving updates, are they going to want to buy a phone which is already 2 years old? Probably not. If Fairphone didn't release a new phone until the release cycle of the current one ended then the only option people would have is buying 6 year old phones. They still have to make regular updates in order to attract new customers. They are banking on a customer base that does not feel the need to upgrade to the latest and greatest every 1-2 years.
- aembleton 3y ago
  Also, if they keep older phone designs in production then they'll have to reduce the length of time that they can support them for as their suppliers such as Qualcomm won't support them for as long.

_chu1 3y ago

No headphone jack. 100% dealbreaker and makes it seem like greenwashing. I might consider a Sony phone when my Pixel 5a either falls apart or becomes a smoldering crater, as they seem to support the custom ROM scene pretty well by open-sourcing their kernels. I quite literally do not care about waterproofing or IP ratings or whatever because the few times I've gotten my phone almost seriously water damaged they've never died.

cooperadymas 3y ago
Can you draw the line between how a lack of a niche specific feature makes it greenwashing? A feature, which btw, nearly every major manufacturer has abandoned. I think it's pretty clear that most people do not care about a headphone jack, but do care about water resistance ratings.
- _chu1 3y ago
  My Pixel 5a has one and I think every single phone by Sony still has one. How is wanting to use audio equipment a niche? And even if so, you would expect the people buying a phone like this to want such a feature.

dmitrybrant 3y ago

Love the concept, and might even consider getting one. But please, please let me have my scrollbar when browsing your website.

nazgulnarsil 3y ago

List of phones in 2023 with screen sizes under 6 inches: Zen phone 10 End of list

j3s 3y ago

i've always been a little conflicted about fairphone. i like what they're doing in some ways (repairability, promise of a longer phone lifespan), but when I read quotes like this: > According to the company, increasing the lifespan of a phone by two years reduces CO₂ emissions by 30%.[4] i can't help but feel like i'm being lied to. cutting (a portion of) consumer smartphone emissions by 30% strikes me as an irrelevant drop in the bucket. companies hyping up how moral/virtuous they are in order to _sell products_ to a compassionate corner of a market always come off as disingenuous to me. i would rather fairphone just focused on lifespan and repairability & left the "saving the environment" spin completely alone. it's fine to target using conflict-free minerals and reduce carbon emissions - but marketing that as an advantage of buying the phone is really slimy.

Vinnl 3y ago
It's not so much an advantage of buying this particular phone; it's an advantage of pushing the entire industry to move in that direction. Either through market pressure, or though paving a path for regulation by showing what can be done.

ranguna 3y ago

No usb c displayport alt mode? Man that sucks.

ElectronBadger 3y ago

When time comes, I'll replace my Fairphone 3+ with 5.