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Putin’s Forever War
- sMarsIntruder 3y agohttps://archive.ph/ATOs7 https://archive.ph/ATOs7
- anoxor 3y ago[flagged]
- greesil 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- vidoc 3y ago[flagged]
- de6u99er 3y ago[flagged]
- klipt 3y agoSo you're saying Putin is a US puppet, who's deliberately crippling Russia for US benefit? Then I guess the Russians had better vote him out!
- de6u99er 3y agoI have never said that. But sanctions against Russia have been very good for US gas exports. Putin had two options. Either allow Ukraine become a NATO member which would have resulted in him being replaced or invading Ukraine.
- knowaveragejoe 3y ago> Either allow Ukraine become a NATO member which would have resulted in him being replaced By why does NATO exist, and why would countries seek to join it of their own accord?
- hindsightbias 3y agoThe Soviet Union collapsed over 3 decades ago. Ukraine was going to be admitted any minute now…
- EdwardDiego 3y agoIt's so strange how all these former Soviet Bloc countries have wanted to join a mutual defence alliance. Whatever could've prompted them to do so?
- mepian 3y agoWho would exactly replace Putin? He seems to have a pretty strong grasp on his power.
- jemmyw 3y agoBut only until he doesn't, which could happen very quickly.
- EdwardDiego 3y agoThe sanctions have also impacted Russia's economy, which is probably far more the point. Also, US isn't the only country that exports LNG, how would they ensure that the US reaped the benefits fully?
- de6u99er 3y agoAmerican voters don't care what happens in Russia. What they care about is how much money they make and how much they pay for gas. Since the Ukraine conflict Bidenomics has suddenly taken off. At least that's how I here on the old continent see it.
- EdwardDiego 3y ago[flagged]
- ch4s3 3y agoMaybe Germans didn’t want it, but hey I guess coal is always an option. Canada and Mexico have always been happy to buy it and the domestic market is booming. It’s been especially useful for converting coal plants to gas and we’ve cut net emissions as a result. And well… Neue Ostpolitik and that smug German sense of superiority am I right?
- nonethewiser 3y agoPlease elaborate on how you think the United States is escalating Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Presumably you mean they are truly escalating it, and not simply helping Ukraine defend themselves. Certainly this has helped prevent a swift Russian victory but I think we can agree self-defense is not escalation.
- de6u99er 3y agoI suggest to study this Wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations
- _kbh_ 3y agoSo Ukraine trying to defend itself from an imperialistic invader is escalatory now?.
- de6u99er 3y agoPlenty of NATO interventions, where not a single NATO member was attacked. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations Russias melting permafrost has made many natural resources available. I bet some political do ors want to get their hands on those resources.
- _kbh_ 3y ago> Plenty of NATO interventions, where not a single NATO member was attacked. But that’s not the context that Ukraine wants to join NATO in, Ukraine wants to join NATO to permanently kick the Russian imperialistic invaders out of their country and making sure they never come back. Effectively just holding Russia to the multiple agreements they signed where they promised to respect and not threaten Ukraines borders or sovereignty.
- me_me_me 3y ago
- foogazi 3y ago> then escalating an ongoing conflict in Ukraine would be highly useful. But why would a nuclear power fall for such a ruse
- de6u99er 3y agoIt's not a ruse. IMO Russia had two options. Allow NATO membership for Ukraine or invade them. I velieve if Putin would have allowed Ukraine to join NATO he would have had an accident qnd someone else would have ordered the invasion of Ukraine.
- _kbh_ 3y ago> If my country had huge amounts of excess fracking gas and the infrastructure to transport it overseas already existed but noone would want to buy it because it's much cheaper buying it from Russia transported through pipelines, then escalating an ongoing conflict in Ukraine would be highly useful. Surely if this was the case then it would be in Russias interest to just leave Ukraine right. That would stop this 5d CIA plot from succeeding.
- EdwardDiego 3y agoPity there wasn't enough port capacity to offload LNG in sufficient quantity to replace the pipelines. Plus the even larger carbon footprint per unit, which European countries do care about.
- de6u99er 3y agoTrue, but those ports exist now.
- EdwardDiego 3y agoI'm not surprised. The German plan to liberalise Russia via extensive trade and energy integration with them was definitely demonstrated to be the massively wrong theory without evidence it always was. So now they've realised what they were often told along the way, it's a strategic weakness. I'd be building port capacity like crazy also. Turns out, you can't introduce democracy to a country just by buying things from them, China is a very obvious exhibit B. It's the well-deserved public execution of a strain of ludicrous liberal(as in liberal economics, not the Democrats) pie-in-the-sky faith based thinking. Best summed up by that dumb quip about "no two countries with McDonalds restaurants have ever gone to war". All hail the (apparently democracy loving) Invisible Hand! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/15/gas-blackmail-how-putins-weaponised-energy-supplies-are-hurting-europe https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/15/gas-blackmail-...
- thsksbd 3y agoNothing is forever.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoPerhaps not, but a whole lot of people have already died -- and it's only been 1.5 years. Even if it only goes on for another 6 months that's going to be a lot of corpses. Iran-Iraq ran through most of the 1980s; Vietnam and Afghanistan took decades. World War 2 didn't last that long and killed far, far more.
- meepmorp 3y agoThis war started in 2014, with "little green men" in the Donbas and the annexation of Crime. It went hotter last year, but it's not a new thing.
- knowaveragejoe 3y agoI'm surprised by the level of conspiracy-mongering present in the comments here already. Putin's revanchism started this entire military misadventure, there are no if's, and's or but's about it. Sorry to say that sometimes the NYT and the US writ large are correct.
- pessimizer 3y ago[flagged]
- knowaveragejoe 3y agoIt's not that you're stupid, it's just that your standard of evidence you will accept around this crisis is embarrassingly low.
- mjfl 3y agoWe have a phone call recording of Victoria Nuland picking the president of Ukraine.
- ChumpGPT 3y agoI would like to hear it, please post it...
- knowaveragejoe 3y agoBy all means, produce the recording!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- SanjayMehta 3y ago1. BBC transcript of the recording https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 2. Nuland acknowledging recording is genuine https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-26079591 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-26079591
- j-wags 3y agoIn this vein, I recommend the 1420 channel on YouTube [1]. It has videos of random Russians being interviewed with provocative questions, mostly in the major cities but sometimes also in small towns/villages. It is admittedly anecdata, but folks often candidly share their thoughts, and it paints an interesting picture of modern Russian society. [1] https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel
- r721 3y agoYou should take into account that people can be charged for "wrongthink" shown in such interviews. Here's one of cases, for example: >Yuri Kokhovets, 37, was interviewed by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty outside a central Moscow metro station in July 2022. >Kokhovets has been accused of spreading false information about the army and being motivated by "political hatred" and now faces up to 10 years in prison. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/08/30/russian-man-in-court-for-critical-ukraine-interview-a82299 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/08/30/russian-man-in-cou... So many people with oppositional views just won't answer the questions, and state/war supporters will be overrepresented among participants.
- tim333 3y agoI'd question whether it's really Putin’s forever war. Moscow has been expanding its territory by invading the neighbours for five hundred or so years and Putin is just the latest administrator of that. And maybe the last with a bit of luck.