9 ms·

I recall two companies working on this - RightEye and Neuralight: https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/17/righteyes-portable-eye-tracking-test-catches-concussions-an

I recall two companies working on this - RightEye and Neuralight: https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/17/righteyes-portable-eye-tracking-test-catches-concussions-and-reading-problems-in-five-minutes/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/17/righteyes-portable-eye-tra... https://techcrunch.com/2022/05/24/neuralight-aims-to-track-als-parkinsons-and-more-with-an-ordinary-webcam/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/05/24/neuralight-aims-to-track-a... Probably there are more by now. As I recall this data is great for essentially saying "you should go get a real test." No one is diagnosing - just saying that a certain, say, eye movement slowness is correlated and you can detect it much earlier than a hand tremor or other more prominent symptoms.

harry8 3y ago
is early diagnosis useful?
- kadoban 3y ago
  If nothing else, it could allow you to make different decisions in your life. If my mind is going to be gone in 10 years, I'm sure as shit not saving for long term retirement anymore.
  - tasty_freeze 3y ago
    > If my mind is going to be gone in 10 years Parkinsons affects motor control, not mental functioning. The point still stands -- if I got a diagnosis I would be less likely to embark on learning to play the piano, and I'd start educating myself on the disease. EDIT: I'll correct myself. It primarily affects motor control, but late in the disease it can affect cognition.
    - JimtheCoder 3y ago
      "if I got a diagnosis I would be less likely to embark on learning to play the piano" Perhaps counterintuitively, doing something like learning to play the piano could potentially slow the progression of fine motor skill impairment. Same with things like Tai Chi, dancing, exercise in general...
    - wombatpm 3y ago
      Lewey Body Dementia is common with Parkinson’s
    - hacoo 3y ago
      Every case is different , but Parkinson’s is often associated with severe dementia that can manifest fairly quickly. I saw this happen to a close family member unfortunately.
      - jefozabuss 3y ago
        My friend's grandmother's hand started shaking badly eating soup and she got bedridden due to a fall in their home, 1 year later she started calling her daughter "nurse" because she didn't recognize her and passed away not too long after due to heart failure. I really hope they will find a treatment to this disease eventually.
    - 1234letshaveatw 3y ago
      I think "primarily" is overstating it. You don't just keep on truckin' with diminished motor control. It is degenerative and causes dementia
  - efitz 3y ago
    But what if you’re a false positive? What opportunities dis you forgo by choosing a path based on incorrect foreknowledge?
    - anonzzzies 3y ago
      As someone who is somewhat older and had a medical scare, I am going to say I wish I had done everything always as if I am going to die in a year.
      - OJFord 3y ago
        I can't really think of any significant short-term interests I have, I think if I (relatively young) was told I was going to die in a year, or otherwise decided I should heed this advice and live that way, I'd spend the year in depression. Or at best just closing out investments, selling things, etc. to make it easier for family to deal with. I just can't imagine thinking Oh right now's the time for that (quick) 'experience' I always wanted (because what?) - I could travel and eat & drink very well perhaps, but I think I'd just find it futile. And yes I'm well aware this applies inductively to all of life, it's just somehow better if you don't know the value of N.
        anonzzzies 3y ago
        > I could travel and eat & drink very well perhaps, but I think I'd just find it futile. I tried that and found it absolutely depressing and futile. Quick experiences never did anything for me or my family. But just doing what I like/want to do only (which not everyone can; some people seem to like/want things that cost a lot of money) is what I should've done for the past 40, not only the past 20 years is what I mean. Maybe dying next year is stressful for most, so make it 5 years; is that better? Or 7 as the article says?
      - darkclouds 3y ago
        > I wish I had done everything always as if I am going to die in a year. But euthanasia as a non traumatic form of death unlike suicide, is still prohibitively expensive. Crowdfunding steals your privacy. Science steals your privacy, and can keep you alive for longer. So are you not over rating life somewhat?
  - justin66 3y ago
    > If my mind is going to be gone in 10 years, I'm sure as shit not saving for long term retirement anymore. But hopefully if you could get a Parkinson's diagnosis seven years prior to symptoms, you'd be able to save some money to keep from becoming a burden on your family later on.
    - kadoban 3y ago
      There's other ways to avoid becoming a burden, but yes that would be worth planning for.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago
  If we could diagnose before actual Parkinsonian symptoms emerge, studying and developing preventative strategies and pharma will be a lot easier. Parkinson's is funny in that sometimes what initially presents as Parkinsonian symptoms could develop into something like MSA over a span of 5 or more years. If this person were in a clinical trial for pure Parkinson's, it would sort of mess things up...
- haldujai 3y ago
  I don't believe any disease modifying interventions exist which would suggest no, from a purely medical patient perspective at least. There are some candidates advertised as promising but I'm not sure how much stock I have in this. This isn't my area of expertise but disease modifying therapies for neurodegenerative diseases have been touted as being "around the corner" since I was a first year medical student.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  For insurance companies, yes.
- TaupeRanger 3y ago
  To medicine, generally? Yes, because we could enroll patients in trials to look at prevention/delay of symptom onset. To patients right now? No, and probably a net negative, because the psychological harms from knowing what's coming would cause greater harm than the benefit of planning.
- peterfirefly 3y ago
  Probably only for research at the moment. I expect people will look into why eye scans work and how to make them work better. I also expect them to use this to catch potential Parkinson's patients early and see if they can find out more about early stages of the disease. Maybe they'll find something that works even earlier than eye scans.
ShamelessC 3y ago
[flagged]
- ianbutler 3y ago
  I don't hate your comment because you're against VC or business or because you're a cynic, I hate it because it's not going to create good or interesting discussion because its a generic outrage rant with nothing new brought to the table that literally every one on this site hasn't heard before.
  - ShamelessC 3y ago
    Ya got me there guy!
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > Sometimes companies do good stuff! Obviously. Otherwise they wouldn't get paid for very long.
  - orangepurple 3y ago
    That's not necessarily true. Major US corporations like DICK's are all aboard the woke train despite hemorrhaging customers massively from the second and third order consequences of banning scary things from their stores several years ago. To the tune of $250 million. And the CEO kept his job!
    - flir 3y ago
      https://www.statista.com/statistics/205758/net-sales-of-dicks-sporting-goods-since-2006/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/205758/net-sales-of-dick... Not seeing much customer hemorrhaging in that graph.
      - orangepurple 3y ago
        Surprising if true. How do you dig yourself into a $250 million hole with ever increasing net sales?
playto 3y ago
> say, eye movement slowness It’s not just movement. Retinal tissue develops from the same embryonic tissue as the brain. They probably looked at structure, vasculature. The best anecdote in this space- nobody with congenital blindness has developed schizophrenia.
- divbzero 3y ago
  > nobody with congenital blindness has developed schizophrenia What’s the rationale for why this might happen?
  - tremon 3y ago
    You could posit that a necessary trigger for developing schizophrenia is (over)stimulation of the visual cortex. If that can't happen in blind people (I don't know if all blindness is the same), they'd be naturally protected without even having to consider a genetic component. But to me, very low incidence rate for both seems like a sufficient rationale. Given that there's both viral and genetic causes for congenital blindness, it just doesn't make sense to imply the protection is genetic: even if true, there would still be cases of schizophrenia among the people that were blinded by a viral infection in-utero.
- i_cannot_hack 3y ago
  That anecdote is not necessarily true. The combination world be very rare even if blindness offers no protection, and it seems to simply not have been studied enough to be confident those rare individuals have been identified as such and published as case reports. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/z9Syf3pGffpvHwfr4/i-m-mildly-skeptical-that-blindness-prevents-schizophrenia https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/z9Syf3pGffpvHwfr4/i-m-mildly...
  - srcreigh 3y ago
    It’s not an anecdote, it’s the idea that there are no anecdotes. That is a much more risky idea in the first place, and your link provides quite a few such anecdotes.
po8tin 3y ago
Tomorrow; new Worldcoin orbs with Parkinson’s detection!

harry8 3y ago

is early diagnosis useful?

kadoban 3y ago
If nothing else, it could allow you to make different decisions in your life. If my mind is going to be gone in 10 years, I'm sure as shit not saving for long term retirement anymore.
- tasty_freeze 3y ago
  > If my mind is going to be gone in 10 years Parkinsons affects motor control, not mental functioning. The point still stands -- if I got a diagnosis I would be less likely to embark on learning to play the piano, and I'd start educating myself on the disease. EDIT: I'll correct myself. It primarily affects motor control, but late in the disease it can affect cognition.
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    "if I got a diagnosis I would be less likely to embark on learning to play the piano" Perhaps counterintuitively, doing something like learning to play the piano could potentially slow the progression of fine motor skill impairment. Same with things like Tai Chi, dancing, exercise in general...
  - wombatpm 3y ago
    Lewey Body Dementia is common with Parkinson’s
  - hacoo 3y ago
    Every case is different , but Parkinson’s is often associated with severe dementia that can manifest fairly quickly. I saw this happen to a close family member unfortunately.
    - jefozabuss 3y ago
      My friend's grandmother's hand started shaking badly eating soup and she got bedridden due to a fall in their home, 1 year later she started calling her daughter "nurse" because she didn't recognize her and passed away not too long after due to heart failure. I really hope they will find a treatment to this disease eventually.
  - 1234letshaveatw 3y ago
    I think "primarily" is overstating it. You don't just keep on truckin' with diminished motor control. It is degenerative and causes dementia
- efitz 3y ago
  But what if you’re a false positive? What opportunities dis you forgo by choosing a path based on incorrect foreknowledge?
  - anonzzzies 3y ago
    As someone who is somewhat older and had a medical scare, I am going to say I wish I had done everything always as if I am going to die in a year.
    - OJFord 3y ago
      I can't really think of any significant short-term interests I have, I think if I (relatively young) was told I was going to die in a year, or otherwise decided I should heed this advice and live that way, I'd spend the year in depression. Or at best just closing out investments, selling things, etc. to make it easier for family to deal with. I just can't imagine thinking Oh right now's the time for that (quick) 'experience' I always wanted (because what?) - I could travel and eat & drink very well perhaps, but I think I'd just find it futile. And yes I'm well aware this applies inductively to all of life, it's just somehow better if you don't know the value of N.
      - anonzzzies 3y ago
        > I could travel and eat & drink very well perhaps, but I think I'd just find it futile. I tried that and found it absolutely depressing and futile. Quick experiences never did anything for me or my family. But just doing what I like/want to do only (which not everyone can; some people seem to like/want things that cost a lot of money) is what I should've done for the past 40, not only the past 20 years is what I mean. Maybe dying next year is stressful for most, so make it 5 years; is that better? Or 7 as the article says?
    - darkclouds 3y ago
      > I wish I had done everything always as if I am going to die in a year. But euthanasia as a non traumatic form of death unlike suicide, is still prohibitively expensive. Crowdfunding steals your privacy. Science steals your privacy, and can keep you alive for longer. So are you not over rating life somewhat?
- justin66 3y ago
  > If my mind is going to be gone in 10 years, I'm sure as shit not saving for long term retirement anymore. But hopefully if you could get a Parkinson's diagnosis seven years prior to symptoms, you'd be able to save some money to keep from becoming a burden on your family later on.
  - kadoban 3y ago
    There's other ways to avoid becoming a burden, but yes that would be worth planning for.
JimtheCoder 3y ago
If we could diagnose before actual Parkinsonian symptoms emerge, studying and developing preventative strategies and pharma will be a lot easier. Parkinson's is funny in that sometimes what initially presents as Parkinsonian symptoms could develop into something like MSA over a span of 5 or more years. If this person were in a clinical trial for pure Parkinson's, it would sort of mess things up...
haldujai 3y ago
I don't believe any disease modifying interventions exist which would suggest no, from a purely medical patient perspective at least. There are some candidates advertised as promising but I'm not sure how much stock I have in this. This isn't my area of expertise but disease modifying therapies for neurodegenerative diseases have been touted as being "around the corner" since I was a first year medical student.
mensetmanusman 3y ago
For insurance companies, yes.
TaupeRanger 3y ago
To medicine, generally? Yes, because we could enroll patients in trials to look at prevention/delay of symptom onset. To patients right now? No, and probably a net negative, because the psychological harms from knowing what's coming would cause greater harm than the benefit of planning.
peterfirefly 3y ago
Probably only for research at the moment. I expect people will look into why eye scans work and how to make them work better. I also expect them to use this to catch potential Parkinson's patients early and see if they can find out more about early stages of the disease. Maybe they'll find something that works even earlier than eye scans.

ShamelessC 3y ago

[flagged]

ianbutler 3y ago
I don't hate your comment because you're against VC or business or because you're a cynic, I hate it because it's not going to create good or interesting discussion because its a generic outrage rant with nothing new brought to the table that literally every one on this site hasn't heard before.
- ShamelessC 3y ago
  Ya got me there guy!
robertlagrant 3y ago
> Sometimes companies do good stuff! Obviously. Otherwise they wouldn't get paid for very long.
- orangepurple 3y ago
  That's not necessarily true. Major US corporations like DICK's are all aboard the woke train despite hemorrhaging customers massively from the second and third order consequences of banning scary things from their stores several years ago. To the tune of $250 million. And the CEO kept his job!
  - flir 3y ago
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/205758/net-sales-of-dicks-sporting-goods-since-2006/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/205758/net-sales-of-dick... Not seeing much customer hemorrhaging in that graph.
    - orangepurple 3y ago
      Surprising if true. How do you dig yourself into a $250 million hole with ever increasing net sales?

playto 3y ago

> say, eye movement slowness It’s not just movement. Retinal tissue develops from the same embryonic tissue as the brain. They probably looked at structure, vasculature. The best anecdote in this space- nobody with congenital blindness has developed schizophrenia.

divbzero 3y ago
> nobody with congenital blindness has developed schizophrenia What’s the rationale for why this might happen?
- tremon 3y ago
  You could posit that a necessary trigger for developing schizophrenia is (over)stimulation of the visual cortex. If that can't happen in blind people (I don't know if all blindness is the same), they'd be naturally protected without even having to consider a genetic component. But to me, very low incidence rate for both seems like a sufficient rationale. Given that there's both viral and genetic causes for congenital blindness, it just doesn't make sense to imply the protection is genetic: even if true, there would still be cases of schizophrenia among the people that were blinded by a viral infection in-utero.
i_cannot_hack 3y ago
That anecdote is not necessarily true. The combination world be very rare even if blindness offers no protection, and it seems to simply not have been studied enough to be confident those rare individuals have been identified as such and published as case reports. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/z9Syf3pGffpvHwfr4/i-m-mildly-skeptical-that-blindness-prevents-schizophrenia https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/z9Syf3pGffpvHwfr4/i-m-mildly...
- srcreigh 3y ago
  It’s not an anecdote, it’s the idea that there are no anecdotes. That is a much more risky idea in the first place, and your link provides quite a few such anecdotes.

po8tin 3y ago

Tomorrow; new Worldcoin orbs with Parkinson’s detection!