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Your comment about being continuously narked reminded me how in early human history people relied on low-alcohol beer as a safe water supply. So back then it w

Your comment about being continuously narked reminded me how in early human history people relied on low-alcohol beer as a safe water supply. So back then it was a double-whammy. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-conflicted-history-of-alcohol-in-western-civilization/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-conflicted-hi...

alentred 3y ago
As far as I understand, historically, alcoholic beverages were primarily invented and used as a water disinfectant. Rum was used in British navy to disinfect fresh water in barrels. Wine was used to dilute it in water till the 20th century. Fun fact, in ancient Greece people who drank pure wine (not diluting it in water) were considered alcoholics and could be publicly denounced. Beer was used as a typical beverage accompanying a meal in many populations (a sandwich with a beer was the closest analogy to the "fast food"). It appears that it is only recently that we have started to consume alcohol for pleasure.
- sithadmin 3y ago
  I'm not sure I buy your claim that rum was ever used to 'disinfect' fresh water on British Navy ships. The 'grog' mix they used was not of sufficient ABV to disinfect the water, as it was handed out at a 4:1 ratio of water:rum. It was moreso about making the daily rum ration difficult to hoard, and much more efficient to transport than beer or wine.
  - jaggederest 3y ago
    Grog was at least 10% alcohol, plus lime juice. Navy rum was 65% or 130 proof. That's more than enough to inhibit most waterborne diseases such as cholera (inhibited in wine at 6.25% abv, though wine has tannins and phenols).
    - vondur 3y ago
      Yikes, I just checked, and Captain Morgan's is 35% Alcohol. I'm aware of Bacardi 151 (75.5% alcohol) which is like fire water to me. Can't imagine drinking something so concentrated regularly.
      - jrockway 3y ago
        I suppose that's why 1 part of rum got mixed with 4 parts water and some limes.
        dgoldstein0 3y ago
        The lime got added to prevent scurvy, which was a major problem prior to it's addition
        Dah00n 3y ago
        Even with its addition as they didn't use fresh lime (some even boiled it) for many years. People got both lime and scurvy. Scurvy: The Disease of Discovery by J. Lamb is actually quite interesting.
      - dekhn 3y ago
        The only reason I'd ever buy everclear (95% ethanol) is for cleaning optics.
        MostlyStable 3y ago
        It's also great for doing various tinctures/extractions if you get into the more exotic side of cooking/food/mixology
        wlesieutre 3y ago
        Good solvent for shellac as well, without the nasty smell and headache from denatured alcohol fumes. Costs more though, since it’s sold and taxed for consumption.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    I think at times it also had to do with making disgusting water more palatable, not sterile or anything, just less awful to drink.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Rum was not generally used to disinfectant water on Royal Navy vessels. Typically the rum ration was only served with the midday meal. At other times the hands mostly drank plain water that had been stored in wooden barrels (and they complained about the taste). And it wasn't always rum. If a vessel was on foreign service and rum was unavailable then the crew would be issued an equivalent amount of other booze.
tobinfricke 3y ago
Previously: "Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) (hypotheses.org)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13535868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13535868
- EA-3167 3y ago
  The first comment is on point, pre-Prohibition the US was basically run on good old constitution juice. Turning excess grain into a storage-friendly form that also fetched a good price was a huge economic reality at all levels, from individual farmers to large land-owners. The side effect of that was that where people used to mostly drink cider and ale, applejack and the like, now it was cheaper and acceptable to just stay perpetually lit on whiskey.
Rodeoclash 3y ago
It's worth reading this comment about the use of beer to disinfect water: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ol1h45/deleted_by_user/h5bjn7s/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ol1h45/delet... It puts forward that the purpose of small beer was mainly because water is boring to drink all the time.
mnw21cam 3y ago
While other comments have clearly shown that the alcohol in beer isn't strong enough to disinfect it, the way beer is made is that you first have to disinfect the water you're going to use (by boiling it) and then you store the beer in conditions that stop pathogens getting in. So for those reasons the beer would be safer than water, but you'd have just as much success just boiling some water and using it straight away. The other advantage of beer over water is that if it does get pathogens in it, then it is really obvious, and people know not to drink foul beer [citation needed].

alentred 3y ago

As far as I understand, historically, alcoholic beverages were primarily invented and used as a water disinfectant. Rum was used in British navy to disinfect fresh water in barrels. Wine was used to dilute it in water till the 20th century. Fun fact, in ancient Greece people who drank pure wine (not diluting it in water) were considered alcoholics and could be publicly denounced. Beer was used as a typical beverage accompanying a meal in many populations (a sandwich with a beer was the closest analogy to the "fast food"). It appears that it is only recently that we have started to consume alcohol for pleasure.

sithadmin 3y ago
I'm not sure I buy your claim that rum was ever used to 'disinfect' fresh water on British Navy ships. The 'grog' mix they used was not of sufficient ABV to disinfect the water, as it was handed out at a 4:1 ratio of water:rum. It was moreso about making the daily rum ration difficult to hoard, and much more efficient to transport than beer or wine.
- jaggederest 3y ago
  Grog was at least 10% alcohol, plus lime juice. Navy rum was 65% or 130 proof. That's more than enough to inhibit most waterborne diseases such as cholera (inhibited in wine at 6.25% abv, though wine has tannins and phenols).
  - vondur 3y ago
    Yikes, I just checked, and Captain Morgan's is 35% Alcohol. I'm aware of Bacardi 151 (75.5% alcohol) which is like fire water to me. Can't imagine drinking something so concentrated regularly.
    - jrockway 3y ago
      I suppose that's why 1 part of rum got mixed with 4 parts water and some limes.
      - dgoldstein0 3y ago
        The lime got added to prevent scurvy, which was a major problem prior to it's addition
        Dah00n 3y ago
        Even with its addition as they didn't use fresh lime (some even boiled it) for many years. People got both lime and scurvy. Scurvy: The Disease of Discovery by J. Lamb is actually quite interesting.
    - dekhn 3y ago
      The only reason I'd ever buy everclear (95% ethanol) is for cleaning optics.
      - MostlyStable 3y ago
        It's also great for doing various tinctures/extractions if you get into the more exotic side of cooking/food/mixology
      - wlesieutre 3y ago
        Good solvent for shellac as well, without the nasty smell and headache from denatured alcohol fumes. Costs more though, since it’s sold and taxed for consumption.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  I think at times it also had to do with making disgusting water more palatable, not sterile or anything, just less awful to drink.
- nradov 3y ago
  Rum was not generally used to disinfectant water on Royal Navy vessels. Typically the rum ration was only served with the midday meal. At other times the hands mostly drank plain water that had been stored in wooden barrels (and they complained about the taste). And it wasn't always rum. If a vessel was on foreign service and rum was unavailable then the crew would be issued an equivalent amount of other booze.

tobinfricke 3y ago

Previously: "Were Early Modern People Perpetually Drunk? (2016) (hypotheses.org)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13535868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13535868

EA-3167 3y ago
The first comment is on point, pre-Prohibition the US was basically run on good old constitution juice. Turning excess grain into a storage-friendly form that also fetched a good price was a huge economic reality at all levels, from individual farmers to large land-owners. The side effect of that was that where people used to mostly drink cider and ale, applejack and the like, now it was cheaper and acceptable to just stay perpetually lit on whiskey.

Rodeoclash 3y ago

It's worth reading this comment about the use of beer to disinfect water: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ol1h45/deleted_by_user/h5bjn7s/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ol1h45/delet... It puts forward that the purpose of small beer was mainly because water is boring to drink all the time.

mnw21cam 3y ago

While other comments have clearly shown that the alcohol in beer isn't strong enough to disinfect it, the way beer is made is that you first have to disinfect the water you're going to use (by boiling it) and then you store the beer in conditions that stop pathogens getting in. So for those reasons the beer would be safer than water, but you'd have just as much success just boiling some water and using it straight away. The other advantage of beer over water is that if it does get pathogens in it, then it is really obvious, and people know not to drink foul beer [citation needed].