8 ms·

The Ultra-Rich Are Flourishing and Sticking Around in California

63 points by Tiktaalik 3y ago

bluefishinit 3y ago
Non-paywall version: https://archive.is/zVnpy https://archive.is/zVnpy
black_13 3y ago
[dead]
josephjrobison 3y ago
As a resident who was born here and left and then came back, I’ve had this idea kicking around in my head of “California is a luxury product”. If you look at the entire US, and assume you have the ability to move and live in any state, there are lots of options for everyone at every income level. (Disclaimer that this doesn’t address poverty, DEI, and other limitations to a good chunk of citizens). From the Gold Rush, to Hollywood, to East Coasters moving to health spas like Carlsbad or Calistoga, some moved here for necessity but many out of choice and luxury. A lot more to unpack here but I think it’s interesting.
- bhewes 3y ago
  As I kid who lived outside the US a couple of times and would boomerang back, I feel that way about the whole country. We have something like 8.8% of our population as millionaires so like 22M people. And I never have to hire guards for routine travel trips.
- squokko 3y ago
  It's a terrible luxury product though because 1) Prop 13 means that people from 50 years ago are still in the luxury neighborhoods 2) Crime is not sufficiently eradicated even from expensive areas
  - esotericimpl 3y ago
    California is in the top quartile of safest states in the US. Your complaint is that rich people wont have their property taxes jacked up and they haven't "eradicated" crime. As a response to the fact that California is as close to the French Riviera as we have in the US.
    - pookha 3y ago
      I've never seen this insanity anywhere in world except for California: https://nypost.com/2023/07/18/san-francisco-stores-lock-up-frozen-food-to-deter-shoplifters/ https://nypost.com/2023/07/18/san-francisco-stores-lock-up-f...
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        This KIND of thing however is extremely common in poverty stricken areas. Poor areas are crime ridden, because most people in poverty lack other choices, and very few people will choose to just lay down and die quietly like some people seem to think they should. Look at mcdonalds in detroit and stuff like that, they look like banks inside, with bulletproof plastic panels between customers and staff. Californian elitists just get pissy that they have to see it in their back yard, because they want the suffering required to support their profits to be out of sight and out of mind. People bitch and moan that "california already spends a shitload on homelessness" but like, it's california, even the small office you have to have just for a social worker to have a laptop to keep things organized will cost millions a year. If you want to function somewhere that has a land cost ten times anywhere else, you are going to have to pay more. Period. The janitors need to live there too.
      - esotericimpl 3y ago
        [dead]
  - ChuckMcM 3y ago
    Just to put a dose of reality here, Prop 13 property taxes reset on sales (there are exceptions when selling to children of the owners but generally they reset) and property turnover rates in California are generally in excess of 10%. What that means is that pretty much all of the taxes are reset every 10 years or so. This is more true of "desirable" places to live (Bay Area, LA, San Diego) than say "less desirable". I have encouraged (without success so far) the County Assessor's office to publish the "net" tax year (average, median, and mode) for the county to help people better understand this.
- dontmobile 3y ago
  [dead]
- detourdog 3y ago
  I refer to this idea as making our own inflation. We such stratified groups of spending so that if you want to spend $100 1980 dollars on a pair a jeans you can find that price range. If you never want to spend more than $20 on pants that is possible also. For all but the most constrained the same product category(inherent quality differences may or maynot exist) is available at any price point.
- squid_fm 3y ago
  It is 100% a luxury product for one reason alone: weather. Having lived in areas with harsh winters and then moving back to CA, you’re basically paying to gain an extra 3 months of life every year.
  - meragrin_ 3y ago
    > you’re basically paying to gain an extra 3 months of life every year. Huh? How so?
    - squid_fm 3y ago
      Harsh winters and humid summers are quite miserable. People are less likely to want to go out, certain businesses are closed, specific activities are not possible, etc. The amount of “nice days” you get in CA is much greater than elsewhere in the US.
      - tromp 3y ago
        Even compared to Hawaii?
        squid_fm 3y ago
        Fair point. I would argue that Hawaii also falls into this category (and it seems reflected in their housing prices).
        cvhashim04 3y ago
        Hawaii is for sure more expensive than Cali. My pockets were hurting when my vacation ended.
        cellis 3y ago
        Too distal, and there's not a thriving non-tourism industry to work in.
        hackeraccount 3y ago
        In terms of cost of living Hawaii is effectively an annex of California.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  They moved to CA in the 1840s to seek to get rich, not because they were already rich. People moved to CA to try to make it big in movies or music, although most failed, they still lived a pretty good lifestyle throughout most of the 20th century. Not because they were already Brad Pitt or Madonna. People moved to Silicon Valley, initially just to get jobs at a burgeoning semiconductor industry a few decades ago. Then later to start up companies in personal computing or internet businesses. Not because they were already Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos. Although most people never got that level of success, there was still a pretty good lifestyle available to young adults in the valley throughout most of the late 20th century. Most people throughout California's history moved there for opportunity not as a luxury.
  - josephjrobison 3y ago
    For sure, it’s always been a blend of both but you’d have to agree there was more of it than those moving to other parts of the Western US, which impacted many things downstream. And the question is more about whether it’s currently primarily a luxury option as a headline idea, with a thousand different caveats.
- francisofascii 3y ago
  It reminds me of cost of a minor league baseball game ticket, which is several times cheaper than a major league game. Of course the major league game is "better", but is it really 500% better? The seats, the game, pitching speeds, the hot dogs, beer, etc. are all the same. California is better than most places in the US, but probably not worth the financial hardship that people need to suffer to live there.
Xcelerate 3y ago
I loved living in the Bay Area, but I always thought it would be funny if a new company that was on track to reach FANG-level status required investors to move elsewhere to a mid-size or smaller city (as their primary residence) as a condition to invest in them. This is mandated all the time for employees, particularly with the RTO effort, and I would be quite interested to see which wins out among the psychology of the ultra-wealthy: remain in the Bay Area or move elsewhere to gain even more wealth.
- groby_b 3y ago
  A company that is on track to reach even remotely close to FANG status has already taken on significant investments. From, by necessity, many investors in the Bay Area. That means the board wouldn't put requirements on investors, and they'd reign in any attempt by the CEO to do so. Even if the idea of restricting investors by location wasn't incredibly bad business in the first place. You're also forgetting that money makes residence meaningless. If you are indeed in the "ultra wealthy" class, you have a residence in wherever is most advantageous to you, and other pads to hang in. Your investments will happen through companies located wherever is most advantageous to you as well. Need a new location, spin up an extra company. It's an interesting thought experiment, but it seriously misjudges the balance of power between folks having money and those possibly generating money at a later point.
game_the0ry 3y ago
I grew in upper middle class southern California. I work in tech for the last 7 years. My parents house went from $500K when they bought in 1995 to +$3M today. If my math is right, that would mean the all-in payment (principal, interest, taxes) would be around $20,000/month at today's rate. Assume you do not want to spend more than 1/3 of your income on housing, your household would need to make $720,000/year. Nominally, I make a lot more than my parents did at their peak, but in real terms, I can't afford a home in the neighborhood I grew up in. Anecdotally, the only people I know that can afford to live in my old neighborhood are young people who get help from their parents or people who bought way before covid and rolled up their existing equity into their new home purchases. Among the upper middle class people I know, no one can afford that area or they are not interested bc they think the cost is not worth it. What's going to happen to the firefighters, cops, and teachers in that area?
- jseliger 3y ago
  CA zoning is doing its work: https://www.worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-everything/ https://www.worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-e...
- riku_iki 3y ago
  Its modern form of feudalism, those who secured low rate loans, pay low prop13 taxes and benefited from equity bubbles are allowed to live good life, others have to serve them for pennies and miserable life in exchange.
- 71a54xd 3y ago
  Same thing is happening in Austin. It's sad.
  - game_the0ry 3y ago
    At least prices have been coming down in Austin. Same needs to happen in CA, but there are going to be a lot of bitter and distressed home owners.
    - 3y ago
hospitalJail 3y ago
When I visited Cali, I was hoping I'd be surrounded by ambitious people who wanted to work hard and make a lot of money. I was disappointed, everyone seemed normal. Maybe a bit Epicurean hedonist. Since my local friends are this work hard and make a lot of money type, and it took a half decade to meet and cultivate those friends, I decided to stay local. Me and the wife have the resume for Cali, but we decided that profiting 300k/yr + our ambitious friends made it obvious to stay. Maybe if she sells her local company, we'd reconsider it for that nice weather.
- matmatmatmat 3y ago
  Can I ask where you're living?
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    In a corporate colony on Terra 2 from The Outer Worlds
- groby_b 3y ago
  "I was disappointed, everyone seemed normal" In a total plot twist, you can make a lot of money without constantly obsessing about it. You can even be "a bit Epicurean hedonist", enjoy your money, and still make more. (Also, seriously, if you want people obsessed with "work hard, make lots of money" to the exclusion of anything else, there's no shortage of them. If you can't find any, may I gently suggest that the problem may lie with your search?)
- dekhn 3y ago
  The ideal californian is a combination of intensely ambitious (internally), while also seeming like an epicurean hedonist (externally). Like, you have to show how hard you are not trying, to be an unbelievable successful person.
ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
I have always been convinced that the general numbers on how many rich people (> 10M networth and > 50M networth) there are is a total lie. Maybe its the bubble that I live in, but there are ALOT of very wealthy people on the coasts. The government numbers dont match my anecdata, I think they are missing a ton of income/capital gains, and thus our wealth distribution charts dont match reality
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  Just to be clear, you doubt a large federal entity that employs thousands of professionals because you see a lot of people who you think are rich?
  - ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
    Yes. And I am a highly educated individual with a degree in statistics/CS
    - eep_social 3y ago
      Did that degree cover sample biases at all?
    - groby_b 3y ago
      I am so sorry your university fleeced you without giving you a decent education in your chosen field.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        You can lead a horse to water but sometimes that horse will do everything it can to indignantly die of dehydration while trying to kick you.
    - vorpalhex 3y ago
      So obviously you'd know that your sample size is so small as to be statistically insignificant, you can't actually measure wealth but may be guessing based on visible status symbols, and that the IRS taxes gains and not holdings. Obviously as someone highly educated you'd realize anecdotal data can't tell you about broad statistical trends and isn't actually a replacement for real sampling. And obviously with such a deep understanding of statistics, you'd never go off half cocked and attempt to suggest your vague gut feeling should beat out years and years of auditing, risk analysis and so on.
Slava_Propanei 3y ago
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dfxm12 3y ago
California is a beautiful state. It has a ton of natural beauty, recreation, entertainment options, food, anything you could want. It's no wonder people want to live there. The ultra rich are able to keep housing costs high and paint false narratives about crime in the media to keep the normies away, while enjoying it themselves. It's a great con.
- threatofrain 3y ago
  No, there is a crime problem, specifically a property crime problem. On crimes that involve loss of life, the biggest Californian cities are doing Okay, if not better than expected per capita. On property crime California's cities have very elevated risk per capita, especially SF. Being killed is a big deal, but no city has such a problem with murder that it can touch the scale of property crime. Thus property crime is the lens by which people will view the risk of crime.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > there is a crime problem, specifically a property crime problem Not in the Presidio. Nor much of the South Bay. I went to a nice sushi restaurant in an okay part of Sunnyvale, and came out to cops politely watching over my friend's car: he had sat on his keys during dinner thereby opening the boot unattended.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
There are also many shades of "ultra-rich". The article claims that millionaires are ultra-rich, but there is a big lifestyle divide between 7, 8 and 9 figures and beyond. Those people aren't living similar lives, it's silly to cluster them together as one unified block.
mrguyorama 3y ago
I don't understand Californian sprawl. When I interviewed at google, I stayed at a hotel in sunnyvale. To do ANYTHING required a drive, because NOTHING is walking distance because EVERYTHING is six lanes wide with a divided median and a 400 car parking lot. It's insanity. Sunnyvale surely isn't the most populated and busy area I'm sure, but I can't understand making ANYTHING like that for anyone. It's so dystopic, needing a car to do anything. It reminded me a lot of Florida actually. Everything built really flat and spread out, as if businesses can catch communicable diseases or something.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  Ya, that's 90% of the country. If anything, California is one of the biggest current densifiers, as the major metros have hit the natural borders and need to densify to accomodate new people. Lots of multistory and transit going up; not enough, but more than most places.
sacnoradhq 3y ago
K-shaped recovery in action. The very rich are swimming in profits extracted from the pandemic and profit-price spiral (driving 60% of inflation) while there are massive layoffs at most megacorps and loan rates are too high for people to afford to purchase a home. Even making $250k/year isn't enough to afford to live where I grew up in San Jose, CA. It became a tiered society of mostly low-paid and middle-income renters contrasted with some retired (maintaining Prop 13) but mostly ultra-rich (mostly people from abroad who bring huge piles of cash) who are the only ones who can afford to live there. It slides into becoming a miserable banana-republic (unless you're very rich).

63 points by Tiktaalik 3y ago

bluefishinit 3y ago

Non-paywall version: https://archive.is/zVnpy https://archive.is/zVnpy

black_13 3y ago

[dead]

josephjrobison 3y ago

As a resident who was born here and left and then came back, I’ve had this idea kicking around in my head of “California is a luxury product”. If you look at the entire US, and assume you have the ability to move and live in any state, there are lots of options for everyone at every income level. (Disclaimer that this doesn’t address poverty, DEI, and other limitations to a good chunk of citizens). From the Gold Rush, to Hollywood, to East Coasters moving to health spas like Carlsbad or Calistoga, some moved here for necessity but many out of choice and luxury. A lot more to unpack here but I think it’s interesting.

bhewes 3y ago
As I kid who lived outside the US a couple of times and would boomerang back, I feel that way about the whole country. We have something like 8.8% of our population as millionaires so like 22M people. And I never have to hire guards for routine travel trips.
squokko 3y ago
It's a terrible luxury product though because 1) Prop 13 means that people from 50 years ago are still in the luxury neighborhoods 2) Crime is not sufficiently eradicated even from expensive areas
- esotericimpl 3y ago
  California is in the top quartile of safest states in the US. Your complaint is that rich people wont have their property taxes jacked up and they haven't "eradicated" crime. As a response to the fact that California is as close to the French Riviera as we have in the US.
  - pookha 3y ago
    I've never seen this insanity anywhere in world except for California: https://nypost.com/2023/07/18/san-francisco-stores-lock-up-frozen-food-to-deter-shoplifters/ https://nypost.com/2023/07/18/san-francisco-stores-lock-up-f...
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      This KIND of thing however is extremely common in poverty stricken areas. Poor areas are crime ridden, because most people in poverty lack other choices, and very few people will choose to just lay down and die quietly like some people seem to think they should. Look at mcdonalds in detroit and stuff like that, they look like banks inside, with bulletproof plastic panels between customers and staff. Californian elitists just get pissy that they have to see it in their back yard, because they want the suffering required to support their profits to be out of sight and out of mind. People bitch and moan that "california already spends a shitload on homelessness" but like, it's california, even the small office you have to have just for a social worker to have a laptop to keep things organized will cost millions a year. If you want to function somewhere that has a land cost ten times anywhere else, you are going to have to pay more. Period. The janitors need to live there too.
    - esotericimpl 3y ago
      [dead]
- ChuckMcM 3y ago
  Just to put a dose of reality here, Prop 13 property taxes reset on sales (there are exceptions when selling to children of the owners but generally they reset) and property turnover rates in California are generally in excess of 10%. What that means is that pretty much all of the taxes are reset every 10 years or so. This is more true of "desirable" places to live (Bay Area, LA, San Diego) than say "less desirable". I have encouraged (without success so far) the County Assessor's office to publish the "net" tax year (average, median, and mode) for the county to help people better understand this.
dontmobile 3y ago
[dead]
detourdog 3y ago
I refer to this idea as making our own inflation. We such stratified groups of spending so that if you want to spend $100 1980 dollars on a pair a jeans you can find that price range. If you never want to spend more than $20 on pants that is possible also. For all but the most constrained the same product category(inherent quality differences may or maynot exist) is available at any price point.
squid_fm 3y ago
It is 100% a luxury product for one reason alone: weather. Having lived in areas with harsh winters and then moving back to CA, you’re basically paying to gain an extra 3 months of life every year.
- meragrin_ 3y ago
  > you’re basically paying to gain an extra 3 months of life every year. Huh? How so?
  - squid_fm 3y ago
    Harsh winters and humid summers are quite miserable. People are less likely to want to go out, certain businesses are closed, specific activities are not possible, etc. The amount of “nice days” you get in CA is much greater than elsewhere in the US.
    - tromp 3y ago
      Even compared to Hawaii?
      - squid_fm 3y ago
        Fair point. I would argue that Hawaii also falls into this category (and it seems reflected in their housing prices).
      - cvhashim04 3y ago
        Hawaii is for sure more expensive than Cali. My pockets were hurting when my vacation ended.
      - cellis 3y ago
        Too distal, and there's not a thriving non-tourism industry to work in.
      - hackeraccount 3y ago
        In terms of cost of living Hawaii is effectively an annex of California.
chrisco255 3y ago
They moved to CA in the 1840s to seek to get rich, not because they were already rich. People moved to CA to try to make it big in movies or music, although most failed, they still lived a pretty good lifestyle throughout most of the 20th century. Not because they were already Brad Pitt or Madonna. People moved to Silicon Valley, initially just to get jobs at a burgeoning semiconductor industry a few decades ago. Then later to start up companies in personal computing or internet businesses. Not because they were already Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos. Although most people never got that level of success, there was still a pretty good lifestyle available to young adults in the valley throughout most of the late 20th century. Most people throughout California's history moved there for opportunity not as a luxury.
- josephjrobison 3y ago
  For sure, it’s always been a blend of both but you’d have to agree there was more of it than those moving to other parts of the Western US, which impacted many things downstream. And the question is more about whether it’s currently primarily a luxury option as a headline idea, with a thousand different caveats.
francisofascii 3y ago
It reminds me of cost of a minor league baseball game ticket, which is several times cheaper than a major league game. Of course the major league game is "better", but is it really 500% better? The seats, the game, pitching speeds, the hot dogs, beer, etc. are all the same. California is better than most places in the US, but probably not worth the financial hardship that people need to suffer to live there.

Xcelerate 3y ago

I loved living in the Bay Area, but I always thought it would be funny if a new company that was on track to reach FANG-level status required investors to move elsewhere to a mid-size or smaller city (as their primary residence) as a condition to invest in them. This is mandated all the time for employees, particularly with the RTO effort, and I would be quite interested to see which wins out among the psychology of the ultra-wealthy: remain in the Bay Area or move elsewhere to gain even more wealth.

groby_b 3y ago
A company that is on track to reach even remotely close to FANG status has already taken on significant investments. From, by necessity, many investors in the Bay Area. That means the board wouldn't put requirements on investors, and they'd reign in any attempt by the CEO to do so. Even if the idea of restricting investors by location wasn't incredibly bad business in the first place. You're also forgetting that money makes residence meaningless. If you are indeed in the "ultra wealthy" class, you have a residence in wherever is most advantageous to you, and other pads to hang in. Your investments will happen through companies located wherever is most advantageous to you as well. Need a new location, spin up an extra company. It's an interesting thought experiment, but it seriously misjudges the balance of power between folks having money and those possibly generating money at a later point.

game_the0ry 3y ago

I grew in upper middle class southern California. I work in tech for the last 7 years. My parents house went from $500K when they bought in 1995 to +$3M today. If my math is right, that would mean the all-in payment (principal, interest, taxes) would be around $20,000/month at today's rate. Assume you do not want to spend more than 1/3 of your income on housing, your household would need to make $720,000/year. Nominally, I make a lot more than my parents did at their peak, but in real terms, I can't afford a home in the neighborhood I grew up in. Anecdotally, the only people I know that can afford to live in my old neighborhood are young people who get help from their parents or people who bought way before covid and rolled up their existing equity into their new home purchases. Among the upper middle class people I know, no one can afford that area or they are not interested bc they think the cost is not worth it. What's going to happen to the firefighters, cops, and teachers in that area?

jseliger 3y ago
CA zoning is doing its work: https://www.worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-everything/ https://www.worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-e...
riku_iki 3y ago
Its modern form of feudalism, those who secured low rate loans, pay low prop13 taxes and benefited from equity bubbles are allowed to live good life, others have to serve them for pennies and miserable life in exchange.
71a54xd 3y ago
Same thing is happening in Austin. It's sad.
- game_the0ry 3y ago
  At least prices have been coming down in Austin. Same needs to happen in CA, but there are going to be a lot of bitter and distressed home owners.
  - 3y ago

hospitalJail 3y ago

When I visited Cali, I was hoping I'd be surrounded by ambitious people who wanted to work hard and make a lot of money. I was disappointed, everyone seemed normal. Maybe a bit Epicurean hedonist. Since my local friends are this work hard and make a lot of money type, and it took a half decade to meet and cultivate those friends, I decided to stay local. Me and the wife have the resume for Cali, but we decided that profiting 300k/yr + our ambitious friends made it obvious to stay. Maybe if she sells her local company, we'd reconsider it for that nice weather.

matmatmatmat 3y ago
Can I ask where you're living?
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  In a corporate colony on Terra 2 from The Outer Worlds
groby_b 3y ago
"I was disappointed, everyone seemed normal" In a total plot twist, you can make a lot of money without constantly obsessing about it. You can even be "a bit Epicurean hedonist", enjoy your money, and still make more. (Also, seriously, if you want people obsessed with "work hard, make lots of money" to the exclusion of anything else, there's no shortage of them. If you can't find any, may I gently suggest that the problem may lie with your search?)
dekhn 3y ago
The ideal californian is a combination of intensely ambitious (internally), while also seeming like an epicurean hedonist (externally). Like, you have to show how hard you are not trying, to be an unbelievable successful person.

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago

I have always been convinced that the general numbers on how many rich people (> 10M networth and > 50M networth) there are is a total lie. Maybe its the bubble that I live in, but there are ALOT of very wealthy people on the coasts. The government numbers dont match my anecdata, I think they are missing a ton of income/capital gains, and thus our wealth distribution charts dont match reality

vorpalhex 3y ago
Just to be clear, you doubt a large federal entity that employs thousands of professionals because you see a lot of people who you think are rich?
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
  Yes. And I am a highly educated individual with a degree in statistics/CS
  - eep_social 3y ago
    Did that degree cover sample biases at all?
  - groby_b 3y ago
    I am so sorry your university fleeced you without giving you a decent education in your chosen field.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      You can lead a horse to water but sometimes that horse will do everything it can to indignantly die of dehydration while trying to kick you.
  - vorpalhex 3y ago
    So obviously you'd know that your sample size is so small as to be statistically insignificant, you can't actually measure wealth but may be guessing based on visible status symbols, and that the IRS taxes gains and not holdings. Obviously as someone highly educated you'd realize anecdotal data can't tell you about broad statistical trends and isn't actually a replacement for real sampling. And obviously with such a deep understanding of statistics, you'd never go off half cocked and attempt to suggest your vague gut feeling should beat out years and years of auditing, risk analysis and so on.

Slava_Propanei 3y ago

[dead]

dfxm12 3y ago

California is a beautiful state. It has a ton of natural beauty, recreation, entertainment options, food, anything you could want. It's no wonder people want to live there. The ultra rich are able to keep housing costs high and paint false narratives about crime in the media to keep the normies away, while enjoying it themselves. It's a great con.

threatofrain 3y ago
No, there is a crime problem, specifically a property crime problem. On crimes that involve loss of life, the biggest Californian cities are doing Okay, if not better than expected per capita. On property crime California's cities have very elevated risk per capita, especially SF. Being killed is a big deal, but no city has such a problem with murder that it can touch the scale of property crime. Thus property crime is the lens by which people will view the risk of crime.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > there is a crime problem, specifically a property crime problem Not in the Presidio. Nor much of the South Bay. I went to a nice sushi restaurant in an okay part of Sunnyvale, and came out to cops politely watching over my friend's car: he had sat on his keys during dinner thereby opening the boot unattended.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago

There are also many shades of "ultra-rich". The article claims that millionaires are ultra-rich, but there is a big lifestyle divide between 7, 8 and 9 figures and beyond. Those people aren't living similar lives, it's silly to cluster them together as one unified block.

mrguyorama 3y ago

I don't understand Californian sprawl. When I interviewed at google, I stayed at a hotel in sunnyvale. To do ANYTHING required a drive, because NOTHING is walking distance because EVERYTHING is six lanes wide with a divided median and a 400 car parking lot. It's insanity. Sunnyvale surely isn't the most populated and busy area I'm sure, but I can't understand making ANYTHING like that for anyone. It's so dystopic, needing a car to do anything. It reminded me a lot of Florida actually. Everything built really flat and spread out, as if businesses can catch communicable diseases or something.

reducesuffering 3y ago
Ya, that's 90% of the country. If anything, California is one of the biggest current densifiers, as the major metros have hit the natural borders and need to densify to accomodate new people. Lots of multistory and transit going up; not enough, but more than most places.

sacnoradhq 3y ago

K-shaped recovery in action. The very rich are swimming in profits extracted from the pandemic and profit-price spiral (driving 60% of inflation) while there are massive layoffs at most megacorps and loan rates are too high for people to afford to purchase a home. Even making $250k/year isn't enough to afford to live where I grew up in San Jose, CA. It became a tiered society of mostly low-paid and middle-income renters contrasted with some retired (maintaining Prop 13) but mostly ultra-rich (mostly people from abroad who bring huge piles of cash) who are the only ones who can afford to live there. It slides into becoming a miserable banana-republic (unless you're very rich).