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I'm constantly amazed by how people spend so much of their income on Apple products; it's almost like their lives are ruled by the status they feel an iPhone br

by zh3 3y ago

I'm constantly amazed by how people spend so much of their income on Apple products; it's almost like their lives are ruled by the status they feel an iPhone brings (and the consequential sacrificial purchasing). It likely varies by area and average income, here it's almost an inverse correlation - the less-well off kids at school tend to have parents on iPhones and the comfortable parents are on whatever works for them.

jnwatson 3y ago
It isn’t any different than buying Nike, Gucci, or Michael Kors. Many folks are extremely brand and status conscious. Appearing high status is more important than many other expenses.
- barbecue_sauce 3y ago
  Nike is high status?
  - chasd00 3y ago
    Nike can be extremely high status to some groups. Certain Air Jordans go for 10s of thousands of dollars.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Probably to at least some degree among kids. No one else cares. Just like no one else cares about green bubbles vs. blue bubbles. But some people feel a need to convince themselves that no one would buy an Apple product for any reason but status.
    - delecti 3y ago
      Certainly not every Apple user cares about the status of it, but certainly far more users that care about the status of their devices are Apple users.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        I guess but probably no more than the number of Samsung users who think they’re making some sort of anti-Apple statement.
- ghaff 3y ago
  You honestly equate buying an at least arguably better electronic device and ecosystem that you may interact with for hours a day with what’s mostly a logo on an I assume is an admittedly well-made bag?
- kernal 3y ago
  You lost me at Nike and Kors.
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    Brand status is a continuum. Nike and Kors may not be “high status” but they are much higher than something like a Walmart house brand.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  My phone is in my pocket 99% of the time, why would I care what people think about it? Anyway, a base model iPhone is only in the $600 range, that is like a week of minimum wage work in my state. Where’s the status? No, it is just a basic functional smartphone for people who don’t like to configure these things (I’ll happily tinker all day with my Linux laptop, but smartphones are just like the worst form-factor, I want it to just work and then go away).
  - kube-system 3y ago
    > a base model iPhone is only in the $600 range $429, actually. > https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Yeah it's very weird, here in Europe the SE is a lot more expensive. Here in Spain it's €559 which is much more $ to € markup than any of the other models. I don't think it's that interesting a model either because it ignores the last 5 years of innovations like bezelless phones. For €349 you can get a nice midrange Android which does have a bezelless screen, fingerprint in display, oled display and often even a 3.5mm jack. Sure it's not as fast but that's one one thing I care less about, if I need fast I'll use my computers. The phone is just for on the road.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > only in the $600 range "Only"? $600 is pretty steep. That it's not on the high end of modern phone prices is indicative of how crazy modern phone prices are.
    - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
      Consider that they're selling a pocket supercomputer. A 386 PC in the early 90's (already second tier to the first 486's) would sell for over $3000, which is $7000 today. Our contemporary expectation that consumer electronics must be rock bottom cheap is a little warped by globalism. This from someone who won't pay more than $300 for something that is easily lost or damaged.
TylerE 3y ago
You’re amazed that people pay a premium price for very premium products that they interact with constantly? Do you also question why people buy quality shoes or mattresses?
- Aerroon 3y ago
  >Do you also question why people buy quality shoes or mattresses? I do. I am 99% convinced that the majority of first world people waste way too much money on shoes that aren't any better or worse than cheaper options. Shoes don't really get all that much better than they were previously, but somehow they always change and the cost always goes up.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    Shoes haven't changed? Do you wear nothing but Chuck Taylors? As someone with a multitude of foot issues, my options have exploded in the last couple decades.
    - Aerroon 3y ago
      I haven't found any shoes that address my foot issues. Even if I did I'm sure they would cost 5x the price of regular shoes and would provide almost no improvement. Are there some kind of objective metrics on how modern shoes are better than shoes from 10 years ago? Are they objectively more durable? Is the shape somehow better for your feet? Because I haven't felt any of it. For me it's just like other clothing: change for the sake of change.
      - TheCleric 3y ago
        As someone with severe over pronation (due to completely flat feet) I know most of the developments have been in materials and shapes. It used to be there was a couple pairs of shoes I could buy, now it seems as if most manufacturers have a few models that help. My last pair cost a LOT of money (Brooks), but I can tell you I've never felt a shoe as good as this one. They get better every time I buy shoes which is every 2-3 years.
nordsieck 3y ago
> I'm constantly amazed by how people spend so much of their income on Apple products I don't know about other people, but I went iPhone specifically for the value/$. Got a used iPhone SE 2020 for $150 in late 2021, and expect to use it for 5+ years. I seriously doubt that there are any Androids out there that could get even close to that. It really helps that Apple's CPU/SoC is substantially superior to what everyone else uses, so older iPhones tend to feel snappier. Between that and Apple's clearly superior OS support, I don't know why value shoppers who don't want to install their own firmware would go with Android.
- kernal 3y ago
  >I seriously doubt that there are any Androids out there that could get even close to that. It's probably because you didn't really do any research into it. A $100 or less Pixel 4a released in 2020 will easily last 5+ years if you take care of it.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Depends on how someone values their time, I suppose.
  - SapporoChris 3y ago
    2nd data point, I'm using Galaxy s8+ from 2017. I haven't taken great care of it so the back glass has many cracks in it. However the front glass has no cracks, minor scratches but is otherwise in great shape. I don't notice the scratches when I'm using it, but they're easily visible when the phone is off and held at an angle in the light. I'm still very pleased with the performance and the battery life. I did not expect it to last more than 5 years.
  - nordsieck 3y ago
    > It's probably because you didn't really do any research into it. A $100 or less Pixel 4a released in 2020 will easily last 5+ years if you take care of it. I'm not optimizing for years alive in retirement; instead, it's years of active, healthy life. Similarly, I don't just care about years of software support in a phone - it's important how long the phone feels like it's still a snappy, responsive phone. I just don't have a lot of confidence that I'd feel that way about the Pixel 4a in 2027.
foobarbazetc 3y ago
iPhones just work. Macs just work. 99% of people don’t want to spend time configuring anything. Both iOS and Android stopped innovating like 5 years ago, but at least the Apple ecosystem doesn’t feel dead like Android.
- SapporoChris 3y ago
  From a sim card set of instructions that I was working with today: For iPhone customers: Please install APN after inserting sim card. Open the following website with Safari-Browser: *.*.com. That isn't just working. It looks like iPhone users have an extra configuration step when using this particular sim card.
  - jackvalentine 3y ago
    I’ve never seen that before and am interested. Can you post a link to those instructions?
    - SapporoChris 3y ago
      Sure thing. https://imgur.com/a/GsLYW6W https://imgur.com/a/GsLYW6W The specific instructions for iPhone users are at the very bottom.
      - jackvalentine 3y ago
        Thanks! Very interesting. I suspect this has something to do with the network arrangements of simcard-korea. That’s not standard for iphones with ‘normal’ in-country sims. I change my sim every few months and it ‘just works’ without any extra steps.
      - worrycue 3y ago
        I think the app is just for you to check your data usage. Things will work without it. Just insert the SIM card and reboot.
kube-system 3y ago
Time is valuable, and the ecosystem of Android phones is filled with time-wasting BS: bloatware, OEM specific UIs, varying device quality, lack of OEM support, confusing accessory compatibility, a marketplace full of malware, etc. For the type of people here that like to tinker with tech this might be a non-issue, but some other people just want to use the device to accomplish tasks with as little friction as possible.
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  >>lack of OEM support what does this even mean in this context? >bloatware, OEM specific UIs The problem here is calling in "ecosystem of Android", it is mainly Andriod vs Samsung. You are either in the Samsung Ecosystem (i.e Samsung UI) or in the Andriod world, Most of the other vendors, the few there are, run close to stock Andriod these days. Then of-course there is Pixel's Pure Android. Not really all that confusing, if you can not figure it out then I trust your better served by iPhone.... you likely have also given up on computers completely as windows or linux is far too complicated for you. >> confusing accessory compatibility what? >>a marketplace full of malware Yes, user freedom bad, must only have applications that Mr Tim approves.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    > >>lack of OEM support > what does this even mean in this context? The OEM doesn't have a store in the mall that will help an elderly family member with it. The OEM stops publishing updates after the phone leaves the shelf. etc. > Most of the other vendors, the few there are, run close to stock Andriod these days. Which is a gigantic pain in the butt when you're trying to talk your mother through the settings menu over the phone to change one setting, and the OEM decided that was the one feature they wanted to move/rename/omit/customize. > if you can not figure it out then I trust your better served by iPhone.... you likely have also given up on computers completely as windows or linux is far too complicated for you. > Yes, user freedom bad, must only have applications that Mr Tim approves. That's the thing, it shouldn't take someone like me to use a phone. Phones are mass market devices that children, elderly, disabled, and uneducated people use.
Tagbert 3y ago
You make a big assumption that it is all about status or that status is a simple equation. From what I have seen, Android phones appeal to people who want or must spend as little as possible on their phones. It also appeals to people who want to tweak and customize their phones. There is a brand appeal among some of those people to be the anti-Apple. Apple does appeal to some for brand identity. It also seems to appeal to people who are buying a phone that they can just take out of the box and use without spending much time in setup and configuration.
- Swizec 3y ago
  > just take out of the box and use without spending much time in setup and configuration That's me. I buy Apple because there's already enough hobbies in my life and I don't need my daily driver devices to also be playful area to tinker with. Give me good enough defaults and the least amount of customizability possible please thanks. Also, anecdotally, my mom who doesn't do English stopped asking me support questions about her devices almost immediately when we switched her from Android to Apple. On Android it was like nothing ever quite worked right and she couldn't at all figure out how to do things.
Loveaway 3y ago
No mate, people value themselves and get the best thing they can have. Smartphones are so essential now and used 24/7, don't cheap out on it. You don't cheap out on food either. Nothing to do with status. Not all about Apple either, there are nice premium Android phones as well. What are you doing, saving for a golden tombstone?
- pwb25 3y ago
  but they aren't the best, thats why it's weird.
- sangnoir 3y ago
  > No mate, people value themselves and get the best thing they can have. Not everyone is this embedded in consumerism. Most of us have our proclivities & things we are biased towards (clothing, cars, travel, house, hobbies), but most people don't splurge on everything.
- Barrin92 3y ago
  >You don't cheap out on food either Except many people do. Friend of mine is a chef and likes to quip that people will pour the most expensive oil into their car and the cheapest into their pan. The median American takes home like 35k a year, they're not saving anything for their tombstone, they're lucky if the house is paid off by that time. Yet you see a lot of people run around with the newest top line phone. That's just conspicuous consumption. Almost nobody except for mobile gaming enthusiasts or VR users gets meaningful premium value out of a new phone at this point. People drop serious money on new hardware every two years that they use for Whatsapp and TikTok.
  - ezconnect 3y ago
    I think the wide variety of payment scheme is the main reason for buying luxury or premium items from lots of consumers. The monthly payment is so low they don't feel it unless they lose their jobs.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    The house? 35k isn't enough to RENT a place of your own almost anywhere in the US, never mind a mortgage, and all the additional expenses that come with owning a home, like maintenance.
acchow 3y ago
It is not the status. Americans love to consume. They think their consumption brings them happiness. One of their most delightful purchases is a new phone.
- kcartlidge 3y ago
  > Americans love to consume. They think their consumption brings them happiness. One of their most delightful purchases is a new phone. If you replaced "Americans" with "Most people in capitalist countries who are subject to constant advertising" I'd probably agree.
  - ericmay 3y ago
    Those outside of capitalist countries who move to countries like America usually make the same consumption choices (sometimes it seems worse - Gucci purses and stuff) it’s just that they don’t have the ability in the country they live in. I think it’s less about the economic system and more about access. That being said I agree with you about advertising getting people to buy things they don’t want or don’t need (strong need) in capitalist economies but that’s a failure of regulation and this a failure by the people. Another experiment you can do though is look at highly capitalist countries like Norway or Denmark and look at the consumption patterns and then compare that with other capitalist countries like China (effectively capitalist) or the U.S. or Brazil and see whether or not it’s a cultural phenomenon or perhaps an economic one. As I’m sure you could guess I think it’s cultural.
meroes 3y ago
I’ve switched back and forth. Just had worse experience overall on android. Maybe I’ll try them in another few years. For a low budget I went through 3 androids and settled on a used iPhone which was waaay more stable.
- TheCleric 3y ago
  Yeah I tend to switch back and forth just about every cycle. Currently on Pixel 6. May swap to iPhone after September. When I'm on iPhone I miss the customizability of Android. When I'm on Android I miss the ease of use of the iPhone. Which is probably oxymoronic. Lol
manzanarama 3y ago
I push back super hard on the "status" thing for Apple products. I don't understand what status it brings you and who gives you that status.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
starttoaster 3y ago
> and the comfortable parents are on whatever works for them So, not necessarily Androids, but whatever they happen to choose? I'm not sure what we're observing, that people just use whatever phone they prefer? Honestly, iPhones aren't a heck of a lot more expensive than a flagship Pixel phone, especially not for a multi-year tech investment. The "iPhones are expensive" propaganda is underinformed. Apple computers on the other hand are way more expensive than the equivalent hardware in the PC ecosystem, however they also hold their value quite well for resale whereas I've found it quite difficult to offload old gaming PCs in the past. Usually people just want the CPU and GPU, if they're not older than about 4 years. The rest of the carcass just gets piled into an ever-growing closet stash of old PC components. If you have a Macbook on the other hand, you'll have a dozen people asking if it's still available every day until you sell it. Even if it's a relic, just with a working battery and hard drive. My bias in this conversation is that I've owned an iPhone 12 since late 2020 with no signs of needing an upgrade anytime soon. I don't know anybody living in poverty but shoveling all of their money into Apple tech.
- petsfed 3y ago
  >The "iPhones are expensive" propaganda is underinformed. Apple computers on the other hand are way more expensive than the equivalent hardware in the PC ecosystem, however they also hold their value quite well for resale whereas I've found it quite difficult to offload old gaming PCs in the past. I think you're perceiving the same thing in both cases, but interpreting the data wrong re: PC hardware. I just looked, the cheapest unlocked smart phone that Best Buy carries is $60. Yes, its pretty much garbage. But if you need to have a smart phone, and not much else, compare $60 to the cheapest iPhone ($430). So it goes with computers too. The floor on not Apple is quite a ways lower than the floor on Apple, even as the ceilings are pretty comparable. And what Apple is optimizing for is very different from what the average high-end PC manufacturer is optimizing for. When you do an oranges-to-oranges comparison of Macbooks and equivalent laptops, their prices end up pretty comparable. Saying "iPhones are expensive" is very much akin to saying "the Mercedes G-Class is expensive". Its under-informed (as you say) only because a lot of people get iPhones (and Mercedes G-Classes) as status symbols, not for the innate capabilities.
- MAGZine 3y ago
TheCleric 3y ago
By and large the Android phones cost the same as iPhones, so I don't understand this criticism.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  Thinly veiled classism
rootsudo 3y ago
It may just be that people who have lower income, and are guided by "status" may make worser choices or are can't/don't understand financial implications or maybe they are just doing their best to "peacock" and fit in with what they think is the right tool to achieve their goals? It's nothing new, you could've said the same thing in the 90's about Sega, Nintendo and Playstation and with Shoes, Clothes, anything -
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Yes 60% of Americans are guided by “status”. My 80 year old mom was just talking to me yesterday about how she feels superior to everyone else because she has Blue bubbles like the Instagram influencers she followx
  - briandear 3y ago
    Your 80 year old mom follows Insta influencers? Cool mom, but probably not representative.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Sarcasm is really lost on the internet…
Dig1t 3y ago
I have a ton of Apple products and I could not care less about the status they confer. They just genuinely have a better end to end user experience most of the time. They do, for the most part, live up to the “just works” mantra.
tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
I’m astounded by the pervasiveness of this meme, given its origins are really from a Mac vs PC internet flame war era that I would like to think we’ve moved past. I’m astounded by the fact that one can imply with a straight face no less that over half the market are status-driven dorks that have no legitimate reason to use an iPhone over an Android phone, the obviously superior for all people in all circumstances choice used by the enlightened few that aren’t concerned with such banal things as social status. Occam’s razor would imply that this view is perhaps wrong and that you’re just missing something. I use an iPhone for a lot of reasons. One of these is that I’m legally blind. For my purposes, accessibility features on iOS easily run rings around those on Android. Full stop. Arguing against that is ridiculous. Sectioning me out and saying “I wasn’t talking about you@ because disability is a sacred cow is ridiculous. Just please don’t make these conversations so charged with this tired old rhetoric that simultaneously chastises such a wide group for imagined status-seeking in a way that simultaneously ties your own (non-iPhone) choice in to an imagined desirable personality trait.
- mrdatawolf 3y ago
  [flagged]
- mlinhares 3y ago
  People just like to think they're special "thinking out of the box" rebels because they use android when the equivalent android phone costs the same as an iphone. There's very little price difference between the models for the main brands (you can off course find cheaper alternatives with their own issues) but if you get an iphone and a samsung side by side odds are they're at the same price range. And as a professional developer that uses a mac (that is by far the best bang for the buck if you're not into gaming) it just makes sense to pick an iphone instead of an android due to the ecosystem value. I doubt many people in developed countries care that much about the fact that you use an apple device or not, that's the kind of shit you'd expect from developing nations like Brazil (where I'm from), where they do remain a status symbol mostly because the population in general is still pretty poor.
  - behringer 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
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nerdbert 3y ago
I bought an iPhone because Android vendors kept leaving me high and dry after a few years. I'm now on year 6 with the iPhone and it's still working great. As I understand it, I have another year or two before Apple stops supporting it with updates. That makes the iPhone far cheaper than any comparable Android phone I could have bought back then. Maybe today Android vendors are offering longer support horizons but I've been burned multiple times and won't trust that ecosystem again. To me this feels more like the situation where someone with money in the bank can buy $200 shoes which will last 10 years, while someone living paycheck to paycheck has to keep buying $40 shoes that fall apart after a year.
mrcwinn 3y ago
Are you really constantly amazed? iPhone user here. I don’t see my phone as a status symbol. I just like it much better. If you like Android better, that’s cool too.
- briandear 3y ago
  Nobody pays attention to the phone I have. I am not some teenager sitting at the lunch table with her friends blabbing about phones. To suggest I have iPhone because of status seeking is just ridiculous. Most grown ups don’t care what other grown ups think of their phone. It isn’t 1996.
sundvor 3y ago
I watched a dating show episode, Updating, on YouTube. At one point the fact that the guy was using an Android and not an iPhone was a major "ick" (point of revulsion) to the audience and the (otherwise stunning) female contestant. Wtaf? Just had to shake my head. Ironically, my S21 Ultra with 16GB of memory/512 of storage was way ahead of anything Apple had made at time of release, probably cost the same as their top model at the time, and is still punching hard with no need whatsoever for me to .. update.
amelius 3y ago
It's quite clear that iPhone is a vending machine owned by Apple sitting in your pocket. Status has little to do with it.
megablast 3y ago
I used to get an iphone every year. Since it was for work, it was tax deductible, so I could sell last year, and make a small profit each year.
deleted 3y ago
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thorcodingson 3y ago
Yeah. At this point it’s becoming very toxic. Like people with iPhones look down on people with android phones. It’s becoming a societal pressure.
indemnity 3y ago
One or two purchases every two or three years isn't exactly breaking the bank. Probably spend more on coffees or alcohol.
brookst 3y ago
I'm amazed at the emotionality of people who dislike Apple. I guess it's a classic projection thing where those with strong emotions opposed assume that those who disagree must do so out of the polar opposite emotion. Apple products are less expensive the more money you make. Not just as a relative income statement, but because of resale value. You can buy a new $1000 phone every single year and end up spending $300/year net of taxes and depreciation. You just have to have the capital that you can tie up.
- paulmd 3y ago
  I’ve said the same thing and it turns out so have others http://paulgraham.com/fh.html http://paulgraham.com/fh.html It’s the flipside of fanboys - there are “hateboys” who are parasocially attached to the brand but it’s a negative parasocial attachment. Nvidia has the same thing going on.
rtpg 3y ago
You should look at the costs of most of the high-end Android phones. Apple does not sell the most expensive phones! "People don't need high-end phones" perhaps, but somehow I don't see people making this comment about Samsung phones. iphone 14 is only $800! Meanwhile loads of high-end Android phones are at $1000+. The meme is dead
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Do you have evidence of that or is it just based on anecdotes? Studies have been done that show the opposite of what you are claiming; eg https://www.deseret.com/2018/7/11/20648686/do-you-own-an-iphone-new-study-says-you-re-probably-rich#:~:text=A%20research%20paper%20published%20in,have%20a%20“high%20income.” https://www.deseret.com/2018/7/11/20648686/do-you-own-an-iph..., https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5933261/iPhone-Samsung-TV-Soy-Sauce-Scientists-reveal-10-items-make-people-wealthy.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5933261/iPho..., etc…
inkyoto 3y ago
> […] the status they feel an iPhone brings […] I am baffled why people keep making this asinine remark. Stock iPhone is not status. Vertu is status (and is an Android platform), moreso the Vertu Signature line. Aftermarket modded iPhones that are encrusted with gold and diamonds are status. The former is the Jane Birkin bag of the smartphones, the latter is pure bling. Both send the same message: I have done financially exceptionally well (or my daddy has paid for it). iPhone is equally unobtanium to anyone pre-launch nor does Apple make bespoke or customised editions for anyone, both of which also obliterate its purported status symbol. Ironically, it actually makes iPhone more equal and less status compared the status smartphones. iPhone might be a status symbol in low income countries, and so are Samsung Galaxy's, the top of the range Huawei's, Xiaomi's and whatever else expensive there is out there.
GeneralMaximus 3y ago
I use iPhones because I can get 5-7 years of use out of each one. Can you recommend an Android phone that has the same level of software support? Preferably something that also works properly with my MacBook, because that is what I use for work.
stouset 3y ago
I spend money on Apple products because I have been routinely delighted by them and have never once been burned.
rvdginste 3y ago
I'm on an iPhone 7 Plus since a year. It's an old model that I bought secondhand. It was partly experiment. I was using an Android phone: Motorola G5 (also old). I love that G5, but I have the variant with only 16GB internal memory, which is simply not enough nowadays. For me the G5 is still fast enough, but every time there are app updates, I need to free space so the update can install. My wife was already using a second hand iPhone and convinced me to try it too. I got that iPhone 7 Plus for cheap, it is in really good condition and it has 256GB internal memory. I was aware it would be stuck on iOS 15, but to my surprise, Apple still sends out security updates for iOS 15. I just checked: my phone is on 15.7.7 and I noticed 15.7.8 came out just a couple of days ago. See [1]. I know that Apple is a closed eco-system and all, but for my phone I don't care that much. My phone just has to work. I still use Google products (maps, mail, calendar, keep, chat), but those run just fine on iOS. The other apps I use, are also working just fine (no performance issues). To me, it's amazing that a phone from 2016 is still receiving security updates. That is simply non-existent in Android world. As someone who does not have the urge to always have the latest and hottest, that is very nice to see. [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212788 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212788
Spooky23 3y ago
You’re right. I spent an extra $14 on an iPhone 12 vs the Samsung. Now I have a blue bubble, and people treat me like I’m smart and better looking. Combined with drinking the beer I learned about on the Super Bowl ads, women think I’m cool too.
40yearoldman 3y ago
Probably because when they buy something they want it to work. I was a die hard android fan boy. Owned nearly all android flagships. I first was driven away from the Google branded phones because it was clear their priorities where something other than providing me the best hardware and software experience. Then I was driven away from Samsung because too much bloat and advertisements within the core OS. None is the home integration worked right. Too fractured and error prone. I got tied of seeing people use their iPhones to get shit done and not needing to tinker heir damn phone all the time. The iPhone is a tool. A well thought out tool that gets the fuxk out of my way so I can do the things I want. Android. IRS a toy. It’s an advertisement delivery vehicle. On Android you are the customer not the user.
- hnburnsy 3y ago
  Ive found 2 models ago Samsung phones, Fdroid, and Universal Debloater to be the trifecta... https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater

by zh3 3y ago

jnwatson 3y ago

It isn’t any different than buying Nike, Gucci, or Michael Kors. Many folks are extremely brand and status conscious. Appearing high status is more important than many other expenses.

barbecue_sauce 3y ago
Nike is high status?
- chasd00 3y ago
  Nike can be extremely high status to some groups. Certain Air Jordans go for 10s of thousands of dollars.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Probably to at least some degree among kids. No one else cares. Just like no one else cares about green bubbles vs. blue bubbles. But some people feel a need to convince themselves that no one would buy an Apple product for any reason but status.
  - delecti 3y ago
    Certainly not every Apple user cares about the status of it, but certainly far more users that care about the status of their devices are Apple users.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I guess but probably no more than the number of Samsung users who think they’re making some sort of anti-Apple statement.
ghaff 3y ago
You honestly equate buying an at least arguably better electronic device and ecosystem that you may interact with for hours a day with what’s mostly a logo on an I assume is an admittedly well-made bag?
kernal 3y ago
You lost me at Nike and Kors.
- Tagbert 3y ago
  Brand status is a continuum. Nike and Kors may not be “high status” but they are much higher than something like a Walmart house brand.
bee_rider 3y ago
My phone is in my pocket 99% of the time, why would I care what people think about it? Anyway, a base model iPhone is only in the $600 range, that is like a week of minimum wage work in my state. Where’s the status? No, it is just a basic functional smartphone for people who don’t like to configure these things (I’ll happily tinker all day with my Linux laptop, but smartphones are just like the worst form-factor, I want it to just work and then go away).
- kube-system 3y ago
  > a base model iPhone is only in the $600 range $429, actually. > https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Yeah it's very weird, here in Europe the SE is a lot more expensive. Here in Spain it's €559 which is much more $ to € markup than any of the other models. I don't think it's that interesting a model either because it ignores the last 5 years of innovations like bezelless phones. For €349 you can get a nice midrange Android which does have a bezelless screen, fingerprint in display, oled display and often even a 3.5mm jack. Sure it's not as fast but that's one one thing I care less about, if I need fast I'll use my computers. The phone is just for on the road.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > only in the $600 range "Only"? $600 is pretty steep. That it's not on the high end of modern phone prices is indicative of how crazy modern phone prices are.
  - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
    Consider that they're selling a pocket supercomputer. A 386 PC in the early 90's (already second tier to the first 486's) would sell for over $3000, which is $7000 today. Our contemporary expectation that consumer electronics must be rock bottom cheap is a little warped by globalism. This from someone who won't pay more than $300 for something that is easily lost or damaged.

TylerE 3y ago

You’re amazed that people pay a premium price for very premium products that they interact with constantly? Do you also question why people buy quality shoes or mattresses?

Aerroon 3y ago
>Do you also question why people buy quality shoes or mattresses? I do. I am 99% convinced that the majority of first world people waste way too much money on shoes that aren't any better or worse than cheaper options. Shoes don't really get all that much better than they were previously, but somehow they always change and the cost always goes up.
- TylerE 3y ago
  Shoes haven't changed? Do you wear nothing but Chuck Taylors? As someone with a multitude of foot issues, my options have exploded in the last couple decades.
  - Aerroon 3y ago
    I haven't found any shoes that address my foot issues. Even if I did I'm sure they would cost 5x the price of regular shoes and would provide almost no improvement. Are there some kind of objective metrics on how modern shoes are better than shoes from 10 years ago? Are they objectively more durable? Is the shape somehow better for your feet? Because I haven't felt any of it. For me it's just like other clothing: change for the sake of change.
    - TheCleric 3y ago
      As someone with severe over pronation (due to completely flat feet) I know most of the developments have been in materials and shapes. It used to be there was a couple pairs of shoes I could buy, now it seems as if most manufacturers have a few models that help. My last pair cost a LOT of money (Brooks), but I can tell you I've never felt a shoe as good as this one. They get better every time I buy shoes which is every 2-3 years.

nordsieck 3y ago

> I'm constantly amazed by how people spend so much of their income on Apple products I don't know about other people, but I went iPhone specifically for the value/$. Got a used iPhone SE 2020 for $150 in late 2021, and expect to use it for 5+ years. I seriously doubt that there are any Androids out there that could get even close to that. It really helps that Apple's CPU/SoC is substantially superior to what everyone else uses, so older iPhones tend to feel snappier. Between that and Apple's clearly superior OS support, I don't know why value shoppers who don't want to install their own firmware would go with Android.

kernal 3y ago
>I seriously doubt that there are any Androids out there that could get even close to that. It's probably because you didn't really do any research into it. A $100 or less Pixel 4a released in 2020 will easily last 5+ years if you take care of it.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Depends on how someone values their time, I suppose.
- SapporoChris 3y ago
  2nd data point, I'm using Galaxy s8+ from 2017. I haven't taken great care of it so the back glass has many cracks in it. However the front glass has no cracks, minor scratches but is otherwise in great shape. I don't notice the scratches when I'm using it, but they're easily visible when the phone is off and held at an angle in the light. I'm still very pleased with the performance and the battery life. I did not expect it to last more than 5 years.
- nordsieck 3y ago
  > It's probably because you didn't really do any research into it. A $100 or less Pixel 4a released in 2020 will easily last 5+ years if you take care of it. I'm not optimizing for years alive in retirement; instead, it's years of active, healthy life. Similarly, I don't just care about years of software support in a phone - it's important how long the phone feels like it's still a snappy, responsive phone. I just don't have a lot of confidence that I'd feel that way about the Pixel 4a in 2027.

foobarbazetc 3y ago

iPhones just work. Macs just work. 99% of people don’t want to spend time configuring anything. Both iOS and Android stopped innovating like 5 years ago, but at least the Apple ecosystem doesn’t feel dead like Android.

SapporoChris 3y ago
From a sim card set of instructions that I was working with today: For iPhone customers: Please install APN after inserting sim card. Open the following website with Safari-Browser: *.*.com. That isn't just working. It looks like iPhone users have an extra configuration step when using this particular sim card.
- jackvalentine 3y ago
  I’ve never seen that before and am interested. Can you post a link to those instructions?
  - SapporoChris 3y ago
    Sure thing. https://imgur.com/a/GsLYW6W https://imgur.com/a/GsLYW6W The specific instructions for iPhone users are at the very bottom.
    - jackvalentine 3y ago
      Thanks! Very interesting. I suspect this has something to do with the network arrangements of simcard-korea. That’s not standard for iphones with ‘normal’ in-country sims. I change my sim every few months and it ‘just works’ without any extra steps.
    - worrycue 3y ago
      I think the app is just for you to check your data usage. Things will work without it. Just insert the SIM card and reboot.

kube-system 3y ago

Time is valuable, and the ecosystem of Android phones is filled with time-wasting BS: bloatware, OEM specific UIs, varying device quality, lack of OEM support, confusing accessory compatibility, a marketplace full of malware, etc. For the type of people here that like to tinker with tech this might be a non-issue, but some other people just want to use the device to accomplish tasks with as little friction as possible.

phpisthebest 3y ago
>>lack of OEM support what does this even mean in this context? >bloatware, OEM specific UIs The problem here is calling in "ecosystem of Android", it is mainly Andriod vs Samsung. You are either in the Samsung Ecosystem (i.e Samsung UI) or in the Andriod world, Most of the other vendors, the few there are, run close to stock Andriod these days. Then of-course there is Pixel's Pure Android. Not really all that confusing, if you can not figure it out then I trust your better served by iPhone.... you likely have also given up on computers completely as windows or linux is far too complicated for you. >> confusing accessory compatibility what? >>a marketplace full of malware Yes, user freedom bad, must only have applications that Mr Tim approves.
- kube-system 3y ago
  > >>lack of OEM support > what does this even mean in this context? The OEM doesn't have a store in the mall that will help an elderly family member with it. The OEM stops publishing updates after the phone leaves the shelf. etc. > Most of the other vendors, the few there are, run close to stock Andriod these days. Which is a gigantic pain in the butt when you're trying to talk your mother through the settings menu over the phone to change one setting, and the OEM decided that was the one feature they wanted to move/rename/omit/customize. > if you can not figure it out then I trust your better served by iPhone.... you likely have also given up on computers completely as windows or linux is far too complicated for you. > Yes, user freedom bad, must only have applications that Mr Tim approves. That's the thing, it shouldn't take someone like me to use a phone. Phones are mass market devices that children, elderly, disabled, and uneducated people use.

Tagbert 3y ago

You make a big assumption that it is all about status or that status is a simple equation. From what I have seen, Android phones appeal to people who want or must spend as little as possible on their phones. It also appeals to people who want to tweak and customize their phones. There is a brand appeal among some of those people to be the anti-Apple. Apple does appeal to some for brand identity. It also seems to appeal to people who are buying a phone that they can just take out of the box and use without spending much time in setup and configuration.

Swizec 3y ago
> just take out of the box and use without spending much time in setup and configuration That's me. I buy Apple because there's already enough hobbies in my life and I don't need my daily driver devices to also be playful area to tinker with. Give me good enough defaults and the least amount of customizability possible please thanks. Also, anecdotally, my mom who doesn't do English stopped asking me support questions about her devices almost immediately when we switched her from Android to Apple. On Android it was like nothing ever quite worked right and she couldn't at all figure out how to do things.

Loveaway 3y ago

No mate, people value themselves and get the best thing they can have. Smartphones are so essential now and used 24/7, don't cheap out on it. You don't cheap out on food either. Nothing to do with status. Not all about Apple either, there are nice premium Android phones as well. What are you doing, saving for a golden tombstone?

pwb25 3y ago
but they aren't the best, thats why it's weird.
sangnoir 3y ago
> No mate, people value themselves and get the best thing they can have. Not everyone is this embedded in consumerism. Most of us have our proclivities & things we are biased towards (clothing, cars, travel, house, hobbies), but most people don't splurge on everything.
Barrin92 3y ago
>You don't cheap out on food either Except many people do. Friend of mine is a chef and likes to quip that people will pour the most expensive oil into their car and the cheapest into their pan. The median American takes home like 35k a year, they're not saving anything for their tombstone, they're lucky if the house is paid off by that time. Yet you see a lot of people run around with the newest top line phone. That's just conspicuous consumption. Almost nobody except for mobile gaming enthusiasts or VR users gets meaningful premium value out of a new phone at this point. People drop serious money on new hardware every two years that they use for Whatsapp and TikTok.
- ezconnect 3y ago
  I think the wide variety of payment scheme is the main reason for buying luxury or premium items from lots of consumers. The monthly payment is so low they don't feel it unless they lose their jobs.
- TylerE 3y ago
  The house? 35k isn't enough to RENT a place of your own almost anywhere in the US, never mind a mortgage, and all the additional expenses that come with owning a home, like maintenance.

acchow 3y ago

It is not the status. Americans love to consume. They think their consumption brings them happiness. One of their most delightful purchases is a new phone.

kcartlidge 3y ago
> Americans love to consume. They think their consumption brings them happiness. One of their most delightful purchases is a new phone. If you replaced "Americans" with "Most people in capitalist countries who are subject to constant advertising" I'd probably agree.
- ericmay 3y ago
  Those outside of capitalist countries who move to countries like America usually make the same consumption choices (sometimes it seems worse - Gucci purses and stuff) it’s just that they don’t have the ability in the country they live in. I think it’s less about the economic system and more about access. That being said I agree with you about advertising getting people to buy things they don’t want or don’t need (strong need) in capitalist economies but that’s a failure of regulation and this a failure by the people. Another experiment you can do though is look at highly capitalist countries like Norway or Denmark and look at the consumption patterns and then compare that with other capitalist countries like China (effectively capitalist) or the U.S. or Brazil and see whether or not it’s a cultural phenomenon or perhaps an economic one. As I’m sure you could guess I think it’s cultural.

meroes 3y ago

I’ve switched back and forth. Just had worse experience overall on android. Maybe I’ll try them in another few years. For a low budget I went through 3 androids and settled on a used iPhone which was waaay more stable.

TheCleric 3y ago
Yeah I tend to switch back and forth just about every cycle. Currently on Pixel 6. May swap to iPhone after September. When I'm on iPhone I miss the customizability of Android. When I'm on Android I miss the ease of use of the iPhone. Which is probably oxymoronic. Lol

manzanarama 3y ago

I push back super hard on the "status" thing for Apple products. I don't understand what status it brings you and who gives you that status.

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starttoaster 3y ago

> and the comfortable parents are on whatever works for them So, not necessarily Androids, but whatever they happen to choose? I'm not sure what we're observing, that people just use whatever phone they prefer? Honestly, iPhones aren't a heck of a lot more expensive than a flagship Pixel phone, especially not for a multi-year tech investment. The "iPhones are expensive" propaganda is underinformed. Apple computers on the other hand are way more expensive than the equivalent hardware in the PC ecosystem, however they also hold their value quite well for resale whereas I've found it quite difficult to offload old gaming PCs in the past. Usually people just want the CPU and GPU, if they're not older than about 4 years. The rest of the carcass just gets piled into an ever-growing closet stash of old PC components. If you have a Macbook on the other hand, you'll have a dozen people asking if it's still available every day until you sell it. Even if it's a relic, just with a working battery and hard drive. My bias in this conversation is that I've owned an iPhone 12 since late 2020 with no signs of needing an upgrade anytime soon. I don't know anybody living in poverty but shoveling all of their money into Apple tech.

petsfed 3y ago
>The "iPhones are expensive" propaganda is underinformed. Apple computers on the other hand are way more expensive than the equivalent hardware in the PC ecosystem, however they also hold their value quite well for resale whereas I've found it quite difficult to offload old gaming PCs in the past. I think you're perceiving the same thing in both cases, but interpreting the data wrong re: PC hardware. I just looked, the cheapest unlocked smart phone that Best Buy carries is $60. Yes, its pretty much garbage. But if you need to have a smart phone, and not much else, compare $60 to the cheapest iPhone ($430). So it goes with computers too. The floor on not Apple is quite a ways lower than the floor on Apple, even as the ceilings are pretty comparable. And what Apple is optimizing for is very different from what the average high-end PC manufacturer is optimizing for. When you do an oranges-to-oranges comparison of Macbooks and equivalent laptops, their prices end up pretty comparable. Saying "iPhones are expensive" is very much akin to saying "the Mercedes G-Class is expensive". Its under-informed (as you say) only because a lot of people get iPhones (and Mercedes G-Classes) as status symbols, not for the innate capabilities.
MAGZine 3y ago

TheCleric 3y ago

By and large the Android phones cost the same as iPhones, so I don't understand this criticism.

teaearlgraycold 3y ago
Thinly veiled classism

rootsudo 3y ago

It may just be that people who have lower income, and are guided by "status" may make worser choices or are can't/don't understand financial implications or maybe they are just doing their best to "peacock" and fit in with what they think is the right tool to achieve their goals? It's nothing new, you could've said the same thing in the 90's about Sega, Nintendo and Playstation and with Shoes, Clothes, anything -

scarface_74 3y ago
Yes 60% of Americans are guided by “status”. My 80 year old mom was just talking to me yesterday about how she feels superior to everyone else because she has Blue bubbles like the Instagram influencers she followx
- briandear 3y ago
  Your 80 year old mom follows Insta influencers? Cool mom, but probably not representative.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Sarcasm is really lost on the internet…

Dig1t 3y ago

I have a ton of Apple products and I could not care less about the status they confer. They just genuinely have a better end to end user experience most of the time. They do, for the most part, live up to the “just works” mantra.

tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago

I’m astounded by the pervasiveness of this meme, given its origins are really from a Mac vs PC internet flame war era that I would like to think we’ve moved past. I’m astounded by the fact that one can imply with a straight face no less that over half the market are status-driven dorks that have no legitimate reason to use an iPhone over an Android phone, the obviously superior for all people in all circumstances choice used by the enlightened few that aren’t concerned with such banal things as social status. Occam’s razor would imply that this view is perhaps wrong and that you’re just missing something. I use an iPhone for a lot of reasons. One of these is that I’m legally blind. For my purposes, accessibility features on iOS easily run rings around those on Android. Full stop. Arguing against that is ridiculous. Sectioning me out and saying “I wasn’t talking about you@ because disability is a sacred cow is ridiculous. Just please don’t make these conversations so charged with this tired old rhetoric that simultaneously chastises such a wide group for imagined status-seeking in a way that simultaneously ties your own (non-iPhone) choice in to an imagined desirable personality trait.

mrdatawolf 3y ago
[flagged]
mlinhares 3y ago
People just like to think they're special "thinking out of the box" rebels because they use android when the equivalent android phone costs the same as an iphone. There's very little price difference between the models for the main brands (you can off course find cheaper alternatives with their own issues) but if you get an iphone and a samsung side by side odds are they're at the same price range. And as a professional developer that uses a mac (that is by far the best bang for the buck if you're not into gaming) it just makes sense to pick an iphone instead of an android due to the ecosystem value. I doubt many people in developed countries care that much about the fact that you use an apple device or not, that's the kind of shit you'd expect from developing nations like Brazil (where I'm from), where they do remain a status symbol mostly because the population in general is still pretty poor.
- behringer 3y ago

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nerdbert 3y ago

I bought an iPhone because Android vendors kept leaving me high and dry after a few years. I'm now on year 6 with the iPhone and it's still working great. As I understand it, I have another year or two before Apple stops supporting it with updates. That makes the iPhone far cheaper than any comparable Android phone I could have bought back then. Maybe today Android vendors are offering longer support horizons but I've been burned multiple times and won't trust that ecosystem again. To me this feels more like the situation where someone with money in the bank can buy $200 shoes which will last 10 years, while someone living paycheck to paycheck has to keep buying $40 shoes that fall apart after a year.

mrcwinn 3y ago

Are you really constantly amazed? iPhone user here. I don’t see my phone as a status symbol. I just like it much better. If you like Android better, that’s cool too.

briandear 3y ago
Nobody pays attention to the phone I have. I am not some teenager sitting at the lunch table with her friends blabbing about phones. To suggest I have iPhone because of status seeking is just ridiculous. Most grown ups don’t care what other grown ups think of their phone. It isn’t 1996.

sundvor 3y ago

I watched a dating show episode, Updating, on YouTube. At one point the fact that the guy was using an Android and not an iPhone was a major "ick" (point of revulsion) to the audience and the (otherwise stunning) female contestant. Wtaf? Just had to shake my head. Ironically, my S21 Ultra with 16GB of memory/512 of storage was way ahead of anything Apple had made at time of release, probably cost the same as their top model at the time, and is still punching hard with no need whatsoever for me to .. update.

amelius 3y ago

It's quite clear that iPhone is a vending machine owned by Apple sitting in your pocket. Status has little to do with it.

megablast 3y ago

I used to get an iphone every year. Since it was for work, it was tax deductible, so I could sell last year, and make a small profit each year.

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thorcodingson 3y ago

Yeah. At this point it’s becoming very toxic. Like people with iPhones look down on people with android phones. It’s becoming a societal pressure.

indemnity 3y ago

One or two purchases every two or three years isn't exactly breaking the bank. Probably spend more on coffees or alcohol.

brookst 3y ago

I'm amazed at the emotionality of people who dislike Apple. I guess it's a classic projection thing where those with strong emotions opposed assume that those who disagree must do so out of the polar opposite emotion. Apple products are less expensive the more money you make. Not just as a relative income statement, but because of resale value. You can buy a new $1000 phone every single year and end up spending $300/year net of taxes and depreciation. You just have to have the capital that you can tie up.

paulmd 3y ago
I’ve said the same thing and it turns out so have others http://paulgraham.com/fh.html http://paulgraham.com/fh.html It’s the flipside of fanboys - there are “hateboys” who are parasocially attached to the brand but it’s a negative parasocial attachment. Nvidia has the same thing going on.

rtpg 3y ago

You should look at the costs of most of the high-end Android phones. Apple does not sell the most expensive phones! "People don't need high-end phones" perhaps, but somehow I don't see people making this comment about Samsung phones. iphone 14 is only $800! Meanwhile loads of high-end Android phones are at $1000+. The meme is dead

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Do you have evidence of that or is it just based on anecdotes? Studies have been done that show the opposite of what you are claiming; eg https://www.deseret.com/2018/7/11/20648686/do-you-own-an-iphone-new-study-says-you-re-probably-rich#:~:text=A%20research%20paper%20published%20in,have%20a%20“high%20income.” https://www.deseret.com/2018/7/11/20648686/do-you-own-an-iph..., https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5933261/iPhone-Samsung-TV-Soy-Sauce-Scientists-reveal-10-items-make-people-wealthy.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5933261/iPho..., etc…

inkyoto 3y ago

> […] the status they feel an iPhone brings […] I am baffled why people keep making this asinine remark. Stock iPhone is not status. Vertu is status (and is an Android platform), moreso the Vertu Signature line. Aftermarket modded iPhones that are encrusted with gold and diamonds are status. The former is the Jane Birkin bag of the smartphones, the latter is pure bling. Both send the same message: I have done financially exceptionally well (or my daddy has paid for it). iPhone is equally unobtanium to anyone pre-launch nor does Apple make bespoke or customised editions for anyone, both of which also obliterate its purported status symbol. Ironically, it actually makes iPhone more equal and less status compared the status smartphones. iPhone might be a status symbol in low income countries, and so are Samsung Galaxy's, the top of the range Huawei's, Xiaomi's and whatever else expensive there is out there.

GeneralMaximus 3y ago

I use iPhones because I can get 5-7 years of use out of each one. Can you recommend an Android phone that has the same level of software support? Preferably something that also works properly with my MacBook, because that is what I use for work.

stouset 3y ago

I spend money on Apple products because I have been routinely delighted by them and have never once been burned.

rvdginste 3y ago

I'm on an iPhone 7 Plus since a year. It's an old model that I bought secondhand. It was partly experiment. I was using an Android phone: Motorola G5 (also old). I love that G5, but I have the variant with only 16GB internal memory, which is simply not enough nowadays. For me the G5 is still fast enough, but every time there are app updates, I need to free space so the update can install. My wife was already using a second hand iPhone and convinced me to try it too. I got that iPhone 7 Plus for cheap, it is in really good condition and it has 256GB internal memory. I was aware it would be stuck on iOS 15, but to my surprise, Apple still sends out security updates for iOS 15. I just checked: my phone is on 15.7.7 and I noticed 15.7.8 came out just a couple of days ago. See [1]. I know that Apple is a closed eco-system and all, but for my phone I don't care that much. My phone just has to work. I still use Google products (maps, mail, calendar, keep, chat), but those run just fine on iOS. The other apps I use, are also working just fine (no performance issues). To me, it's amazing that a phone from 2016 is still receiving security updates. That is simply non-existent in Android world. As someone who does not have the urge to always have the latest and hottest, that is very nice to see. [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212788 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212788

Spooky23 3y ago

You’re right. I spent an extra $14 on an iPhone 12 vs the Samsung. Now I have a blue bubble, and people treat me like I’m smart and better looking. Combined with drinking the beer I learned about on the Super Bowl ads, women think I’m cool too.

40yearoldman 3y ago

Probably because when they buy something they want it to work. I was a die hard android fan boy. Owned nearly all android flagships. I first was driven away from the Google branded phones because it was clear their priorities where something other than providing me the best hardware and software experience. Then I was driven away from Samsung because too much bloat and advertisements within the core OS. None is the home integration worked right. Too fractured and error prone. I got tied of seeing people use their iPhones to get shit done and not needing to tinker heir damn phone all the time. The iPhone is a tool. A well thought out tool that gets the fuxk out of my way so I can do the things I want. Android. IRS a toy. It’s an advertisement delivery vehicle. On Android you are the customer not the user.

hnburnsy 3y ago
Ive found 2 models ago Samsung phones, Fdroid, and Universal Debloater to be the trifecta... https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater