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I hate to say this, stop applying. Find a recruiter on LinkedIn. This is what it has come to. There are thousands of resumes being sent at my company, yet the

I hate to say this, stop applying. Find a recruiter on LinkedIn. This is what it has come to. There are thousands of resumes being sent at my company, yet the recruiter can't find anyone. Why? Because no one is applying through her link. The regular resume channel is reserved for bots at this point. Contact a person and you have more chances.

rewmie 3y ago
> This is what it has come to. There are thousands of resumes being sent at my company, yet the recruiter can't find anyone. Why? Because no one is applying through her link. It sounds like your recruiter is purposely ignoring any resume that is not explicitly sent to her personally. It sounds like a job security move at the expense of both the company and candidate's best interests.
- firefoxd 3y ago
  A lot of resumes are not even for the job she posts. Bots and other 3rd party recruiters are also trying to game the system so they drown real candidates. When a resumes is from her link, there are high chances it's a real person who took the time to read the job description.
  - davidthewatson 3y ago
    The post-modern labor dichotomy between robots and human robots is mirrored on the hiring side in ATS and HR, respectively. Sadly, this is not new: https://medium.com/@jannaq/the-robot-takeover-is-already-here-5aa55e1d136a#:~:text=more%20robot%2Dlike.-,Algorithms%20are%20taking%20over%20much%20of%20the%20human%20work%20of%20hiring,the%20robots%20are%20most%20likely%20to%20hire%20the%20most%20robotic%20humans.,-The%20tests%20for https://medium.com/@jannaq/the-robot-takeover-is-already-her...
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > A lot of resumes are not even for the job she posts. I don't see how this can be a problem. People do look for jobs by contacting companies. Isn't the goal of a recruiter to check potential candidates? > Bots and other 3rd party recruiters are also trying to game the system so they drown real candidates. I fail to see how this problem is avoided by ignoring the company's inbox. > When a resumes is from her link, there are high chances it's a real person who took the time to read the job description. I don't but it. This does not pass the smell test, as screening does not depend on which input you use. It sounds like someone is failing to meet their job requirements.
    - solarmist 3y ago
      Really? You don’t see how a recruiter would miss things if there’s 100+ spam/totally unqualified resumes for every legitimate one?
      - rewmie 3y ago
        > Really? You don’t see how a recruiter would miss things if there’s 100+ spam/totally unqualified resumes for every legitimate one? Your comment makes no sense. You're arguing that a recruiter should miss 100% of all contacts because otherwise they would miss things. It's like arguing to throw the baby out with the bath water because otherwise your recruiter would miss things like the soap.
        solarmist 3y ago
        Where did I say everything? I didn't say that.
- dumpsterdiver 3y ago
  > It sounds like your recruiter is purposely ignoring any resume that is not explicitly sent to her personally. Curious, how does one ignore something that is never actually sent to them, explicitly or not?
  - OJFord 3y ago
    By my reading: ignore careers@acme.com, read ojford@acme.com (mail from the recruiter I hired, who has my email address, while direct applicants don't).
viraptor 3y ago
Why stop applying? If you have time to apply - apply. Meanwhile, if you're not happy with results, engage a recruiter too.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Recruiters will get you in the door. Better yet, recommendations from the company you are applying to will work even better.
Varriount 3y ago
I've had the best luck with recruiters that have contacted me directly on LinkedIn. Conversely, I've had zero luck with the recruiters that contact me via phone call. My assumption is that this is because many of the latter are operating under the "if we get you hired we get XX% percent of your salary" model, and are thus inclined to submit as many applications as they can.
- noitpmeder 3y ago
  I think this is only really an option for some sub-spaces of tech. As someone in a middling HFT shop my linkedin inbox is flooded with recruiter spam. But most of my friends in frontend work don't get any of this.
  - Roark66 3y ago
    There is definitely truth in this. I see lots of ads for senior full stack devs (and devops). Not so much for front end. I wonder why that is.
    - _jesse 3y ago
      I think it's easier to get away with not having someone who specializes in front end and so a lot of companies just don't prioritize it. I think a lot of them also don't realize how much they're missing either, but I'm maybe a little biased because I specialize in front end, haha. I do think that this is a contributing factor to why so many websites and web apps work and run so poorly.
  - CoastalCoder 3y ago
    > As someone in a middling HFT shop Hey, since we're on the topic of HFT developers... How do people break into that area? I've done a lot of performance-optimization work, so I thought I might be a good candidate for some of those roles. But for all the job postings I've seen in the past ~4 months, they want significant prior experience developing low-latency systems. Is this just a temporary thing, where the pool of already-experienced candidates is sufficient?
Pmop 3y ago
I also had good results with recruiters. They will actually get you at the door, so you better be prepared. Seems to be a decent strategy for people who are bad at networking like I am.
- supriyo-biswas 3y ago
  Recruiters get a lot of flak here and elsewhere, but having recently interacted with a few for a recent job change, their incentives are aligned to have some skin in the game, and they can do the emotionally draining part of pushing the company to speed up the process for you without having to send multiple emails or waiting for months for your rejection.
  - Paul-Craft 3y ago
    When you say "recruiters," do you mean in-house recruiters or third party recruiters? Getting an in-house person on your side certainly is a great way to speed along the hiring process, but I've literally never had a third party recruiter send anything my way that ever came close to working out. It's gotten to the point where if I get an email from a 3rd party recruiter, I just don't look at it -- although I'm not sure if taking a chance on one of them at this point is a higher percentage play than 100 cold applications, TBH. I suspect a lot of it has to do with the type of companies that tend to hire 3rd party recruiters. Namely, startups, and typically early stage startups who don't have any in-house recruiting staff. There's nothing at all wrong with early stage startup companies, except that my experience seems to indicate they don't actually know what they're even looking for. That's in addition to the likelihood that they just haven't been around long enough to develop a structured hiring process. I don't know. What I will say is that your incentives and a 3rd party recruiter's are not the same. They want to place you quickly and get the commission, regardless if it's the best company or the most competitive offer. You're right that they do want to keep you at least somewhat happy, because if they get a reputation for treating candidates badly, that can be fatal in their profession. But, the people they really want to keep happy are the ones writing the checks. And, in this situation, that ain't you. You are quite literally the product here.
ricardobayes 3y ago
So true, if you are applying through a webform or an email address, chances are, your application is never even going to reach human eyeballs.
skrebbel 3y ago
Fwiw: I’m an employer, and sometimes people ignore the “how to apply” instructions on our site (which say to email to jobs@) and reach out straight via eg LinkedIn and I always file those in my “can’t follow a simple instruction” pile. Not to say that what you say will never work, but I think it’s worth pointing out that at some companies, application processes might exist for a reason. For me, having all applications in a single place is key to actually being able to deal with them effectively.
- jkaplowitz 3y ago
  Finding a recruiter to apply through jobs which the recruiter is contracted or employed to hire for is very different than sending unsolicited spams to employees at a target company, even if both can happen on LinkedIn. It was the former suggestion that was being given.
  - skrebbel 3y ago
    Ah I thought they meant a recruiter at the company and not an intermediary. Thanks.
    - jkaplowitz 3y ago
      Either way, really - many in-house recruiters do actively source via LinkedIn and encourage inbound messages there from interested candidates. But it seemed like this was a suggestion to use LinkedIn as a front door rather than as a back door.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        The bigger the employer, the more likely it is, that after a first recruiter phone screen, you still havebto go through the normal recruotment / application process, for compliance reasons mostly. No big deal, as the recruiter is working on your behalf on the other end, if he decided to invite you to an interview with the hiring manager, to fast track you application through whatever arcane or byzantine process there is.
oxfordmale 3y ago
For what it is worth, I see a slight recovery in the software engineering job market. In the first half of 2023, voluntary staff turnover was historically low in my company after redundancies at the beginning of the year. Now the economy isn't doing as badly as predicted, industry-wide layoffs are reducing frequently, and staff are regaining the confidence to move jobs again.
mightykipper 3y ago
Depending on sector, you may find you only get traction through recruiters. I work in finance, almost everything is through third party recruiters and there are two reasons for this. 1. We are only allowed to hire through either an approved recruiter or the company job portal. The company job portal gets so many applications for each job it's absurd, and we have to sift these ourselves to some degree (HR are meant to confirm we only see qualified candidates, but they're idiots) so rather than sifting the portal applications we mostly use 2-5 known recruiters who only give us candidates who can do the job. They do the first screenings, if they give us shit candidates we never use them again, so we rarely get a bad candidate through them. 2. Perks. We often meet directly with recruiters in person, and they have expense accounts and take us for lunch/drinks we don't have to pay for. This makes us want to keep using them over direct applications (yes recruiters, this 100% works, we won't use you if you're shit regardless but we'll 100% entertain looking at your candidates if you take us for lunch or drinks - check compliance limits before suggesting a venue though).
- heavenlyblue 3y ago
  > Perks. We often meet directly with recruiters in person, and they have expense accounts and take us for lunch/drinks we don't have to pay for. This makes us want to keep using them over direct applications (yes recruiters, this 100% works, we won't use you if you're shit regardless but we'll 100% entertain looking at your candidates if you take us for lunch or drinks - check compliance limits before suggesting a venue though). How badly are you paid?
  - sebzim4500 3y ago
    Can't speak for that guy but there are definitely people who are well paid but who will go out of their way for free stuff. Don't really get it myself, I think typically such people are drastically undervaluing their time.
    - bt4u 3y ago
      [dead]
herodotusxviii 3y ago
If you don't mind, could you tell me how I should go about finding a recruiter directly on LinkedIn? I've been out of the market for three years now (had to take care of sick family) and it's extra brutal; I've been contacted by a few recruiters but I'd really like to speed up the process of networking with them if possible. Thank you. (I'm in the Inland Empire in Southern California).
- nelsonic 3y ago
  Connect with me: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonic https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonic I will help you fast-track this.
  - abathur 3y ago
    I have a parallel-universe version of the question--from a universe where I've ~idealistically refused to create a LinkedIn account. How would you go about finding a recruiter sans LinkedIn? :)
    - richardwhiuk 3y ago
      Swallow your pride.
      - mythrwy 3y ago
        No. I will never have a Linkedin profile. I will live in the woods and eat nuts and berries first. And I'm serious about this.
    - ohgodplsno 3y ago
      You could go out, network, go to hiring fairs and various places. At which point you're pretty much always going to be asked for a LinkedIn, and pretty much noone will want to put work in for someone not doing something has simple as creating an account. So, unfortunately, as the other comment said, swallow your pride. These networks have made it so that the cost of idealism is being cut off socially, whether that's friends or employers.
wizardforhire 3y ago
This and… Use your new free time by not applying to… Work on a project that interests you and share it online Exercise both physically and fiscally Spend time with people you care about and also care about you And keep working on projects and sharing them, maybe even with hn The comments on here are legion of individuals who post some project and have to then fight away recruiters…
- azangru 3y ago
  What do fiscal exercises look like?
  - expertentipp 3y ago
    You invest in Apple or Tesla, get hit with 30% tax, and receive communication from IRS while living in Europe and having nothing to do with USA. Then try to clarify the whole mess.
    - 0xfedbee 3y ago
      TradeRepublic
      - expertentipp 3y ago
        Not available in some EU countries I need it, but thanks!
  - skrebbel 3y ago
    I think they mean “learn to buy cheaper groceries” but I hope they mean “deadlift 20 years of income tax filings”
    - expertentipp 3y ago
      My self confidence and well-being from cardio was crushed by a 4-page letter from tax office in a language I don't understand, even though I speak 3 languages already.
username_my1 3y ago
Not necesarly the only way as someone who often interviews candidates, if I'm getting bombarded by spam applications, the least you can do for me to take your CV seriously is a cover letter related to the job posting / company. I don't understand any candidate who sends out a letter without researching the company for 30 minutes and taking another 10 to write a thoughtful cover letter. if you're not willing to put that effort into your potential future position, it's not even worth opening the CV from my side.
- hef19898 3y ago
  That goes a long way, tailoring the CV and, if absolutely needed, cover letter for each application. The CV also when recruiters reached out to you, as they still have to present it to HR and hiring managers (also having a recruiter presenting the CV and candidate helps a lot, and means the CV can be a bit less polished). And if recruiters, or the companies behind them, require a cover letter, being contacted first by the recruiter makes writing those a lot easier since you don't have to cold sell yourself as much. And the first discusion / phone screening, ehich propably didn't require a cover letter, gives you hints and hooks to use in the letter (I say that as person who hates selling myself and especially writing cover letters, also I found my last job that way). Now the trickey part is, so, to have solid recruiters hiring for real positions reaching out to you. For some reason, they did in my case more or less every time I kind of needed it. I have not the slightest clue so why, my LinkedIn profile was up to date but far from polished... Well, I content myself with being lucky for some reason, and I am aware how lucky I am when it comes to that and quite grateful to universe, and hope to never have to go through that whole process again, because applying, getting new jobs, tinse and repeat, gets stressful at a certain point. And now I reached a point in my career where I like the stability of a job, collectively (and relatively high) bargained salary, good, bordering very good to almost stellar, retirement benefits, I job that is truely challenging (new stuff that allows me use my experience almost completely, while being borderline scary at times) working on a product for which projected end-of-service-life is over a decade after my legal retirement age. That being said, I had a period in which I had to write a ton of applications whipe seeing the clock running down on my unemployment benefits. That alone can be soul crushing, so I try to cut people somenslack when it comes to CV and cover letter polishing. It still means one shouod put some thought behind both tasks so.
whstl 3y ago
I've given up on applying through company portals for a few years. Last job I applied myself was in 2016. The rest was people reaching me via LinkedIn. I'm not a recruiter and have no vested interest in this, but the experience with recruiters from the candidate side is just completely different to justify their existence. From the company side, we also get better candidates from recruiters. Applying through portals make you feel like a second-class citizen. Companies often ignore you, ghost you, have terrible screening, take ages to respond, give no feedback. Recruiters that reached directly to you have your back and will push for timely responses, will help you negotiate a salary and will prepare you for the interview. With that said: I had good experience with internal recruiting too. My best salary offer I got was from a company that had internal recruiting (I accepted and work at this company). But I hope I never have to fill a form in a website ever again.
- mooreds 3y ago
  I think the right time to apply through a company portal is when you already have had conversations with folks at the company (hiring managers, recruiters, other team members) and are just "checking the box". Definitely agree, hope I never have to apply via a portal again.
  - whstl 3y ago
    I would still probably refuse at this point, on grounds of having done this in the past and being "ghosted", even though there was prior conversations. If a company is interested in me, they won't make me jump through hoops. On the other hand, I'm quite experienced and popular in the job market, so things might be different for other folks.
- pnutjam 3y ago
  Just anecdotally, I got 2 of my last 4 jobs by direct applying with no networking, and 2 from recruiters. One internal and one external. The internal recruiter oversold the job and it was not great. The other jobs were all good and about what I expected.
otikik 3y ago
Not completely disagreeing with the OP but before going the recruiter route make sure you have exhausted the social network route. Your resume has way more chances to be considered seriously if instead of just sending it to the company inbox someone already working for that company recommends you. If you have any friends, family or ex-colleagues working on a nice place, tell them that you are looking for a position and ask them if they would mind referring you. Although it's becoming rare, some companies still have a "referral bonus" for employees that bring up other employees. You might even do them a favor.
- beowulfey 3y ago
  I would say an order of magnitude more likely, even. People always underestimate just how much even a tangential social connection improves your chances. (FWIW, this is also why I think recruiters work.)
marcusverus 3y ago
I would add to this that you should find a handful of recruiters and check in with all of them regularly. As long as you make sure that you don’t get submitted to the same job twice, the more recruiters you have working for you the faster you’ll find something. To find recruiters, do a Google search for recruiting firms that have physical offices in your town, find an experienced recruiter who works for them on LinkedIn, and call into the front desk asking to speak with them.
jamal-kumar 3y ago
I suggest an even more devious tactic. Run enumeration on their company and see if you can figure out their boss's PERSONAL direct email address. Send resumes there instead of info@whatevercompany.com - Often if you can figure out some scheme like first initial last name @ whatevercompany.com you can get that contact. I tend to do this by simply waltzing into the office and asking for a business card if I can. Apparently nobody does that anymore but it gets results.
drumttocs8 3y ago
I hate to say this, but many recruiters who contact me seem to reside and work from India. I get all kinds of recruiter attention, including unsolicited emails, calls, and texts, but most of them seem to be looking for a relationship where I do the work, and they subcontract with a subcontractor who's subcontracting for another contract for a major firm. It's basically spam at this point. How can we "stand out" without getting bombarded with low-quality "proposals"?
the_only_law 3y ago
> Find a recruiter on LinkedIn. They keep fucking me over. Had one a few weeks back that messaged me with 2 roles that looked like a perfect 1:1 fit for my resume. Never heard from him again.
ajhurliman 3y ago
I’ve literally never gotten a job that didn’t come through a recruiter (except my most recent job). 10 years experience, every time I want a new job I just reach out to recruiters who have contacted me recently and recruiters I’ve had good experiences with in the past, they’ll bring me a handful of random jobs and I interview for the ones that sound like a good fit. The most recent job the hiring manager saw my post on HN: who’s looking to be hired, and they just reached out directly.

rewmie 3y ago

> This is what it has come to. There are thousands of resumes being sent at my company, yet the recruiter can't find anyone. Why? Because no one is applying through her link. It sounds like your recruiter is purposely ignoring any resume that is not explicitly sent to her personally. It sounds like a job security move at the expense of both the company and candidate's best interests.

firefoxd 3y ago
A lot of resumes are not even for the job she posts. Bots and other 3rd party recruiters are also trying to game the system so they drown real candidates. When a resumes is from her link, there are high chances it's a real person who took the time to read the job description.
- davidthewatson 3y ago
  The post-modern labor dichotomy between robots and human robots is mirrored on the hiring side in ATS and HR, respectively. Sadly, this is not new: https://medium.com/@jannaq/the-robot-takeover-is-already-here-5aa55e1d136a#:~:text=more%20robot%2Dlike.-,Algorithms%20are%20taking%20over%20much%20of%20the%20human%20work%20of%20hiring,the%20robots%20are%20most%20likely%20to%20hire%20the%20most%20robotic%20humans.,-The%20tests%20for https://medium.com/@jannaq/the-robot-takeover-is-already-her...
- rewmie 3y ago
  > A lot of resumes are not even for the job she posts. I don't see how this can be a problem. People do look for jobs by contacting companies. Isn't the goal of a recruiter to check potential candidates? > Bots and other 3rd party recruiters are also trying to game the system so they drown real candidates. I fail to see how this problem is avoided by ignoring the company's inbox. > When a resumes is from her link, there are high chances it's a real person who took the time to read the job description. I don't but it. This does not pass the smell test, as screening does not depend on which input you use. It sounds like someone is failing to meet their job requirements.
  - solarmist 3y ago
    Really? You don’t see how a recruiter would miss things if there’s 100+ spam/totally unqualified resumes for every legitimate one?
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > Really? You don’t see how a recruiter would miss things if there’s 100+ spam/totally unqualified resumes for every legitimate one? Your comment makes no sense. You're arguing that a recruiter should miss 100% of all contacts because otherwise they would miss things. It's like arguing to throw the baby out with the bath water because otherwise your recruiter would miss things like the soap.
      - solarmist 3y ago
        Where did I say everything? I didn't say that.
dumpsterdiver 3y ago
> It sounds like your recruiter is purposely ignoring any resume that is not explicitly sent to her personally. Curious, how does one ignore something that is never actually sent to them, explicitly or not?
- OJFord 3y ago
  By my reading: ignore careers@acme.com, read ojford@acme.com (mail from the recruiter I hired, who has my email address, while direct applicants don't).

viraptor 3y ago

Why stop applying? If you have time to apply - apply. Meanwhile, if you're not happy with results, engage a recruiter too.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Recruiters will get you in the door. Better yet, recommendations from the company you are applying to will work even better.

Varriount 3y ago

I've had the best luck with recruiters that have contacted me directly on LinkedIn. Conversely, I've had zero luck with the recruiters that contact me via phone call. My assumption is that this is because many of the latter are operating under the "if we get you hired we get XX% percent of your salary" model, and are thus inclined to submit as many applications as they can.

noitpmeder 3y ago
I think this is only really an option for some sub-spaces of tech. As someone in a middling HFT shop my linkedin inbox is flooded with recruiter spam. But most of my friends in frontend work don't get any of this.
- Roark66 3y ago
  There is definitely truth in this. I see lots of ads for senior full stack devs (and devops). Not so much for front end. I wonder why that is.
  - _jesse 3y ago
    I think it's easier to get away with not having someone who specializes in front end and so a lot of companies just don't prioritize it. I think a lot of them also don't realize how much they're missing either, but I'm maybe a little biased because I specialize in front end, haha. I do think that this is a contributing factor to why so many websites and web apps work and run so poorly.
- CoastalCoder 3y ago
  > As someone in a middling HFT shop Hey, since we're on the topic of HFT developers... How do people break into that area? I've done a lot of performance-optimization work, so I thought I might be a good candidate for some of those roles. But for all the job postings I've seen in the past ~4 months, they want significant prior experience developing low-latency systems. Is this just a temporary thing, where the pool of already-experienced candidates is sufficient?

Pmop 3y ago

I also had good results with recruiters. They will actually get you at the door, so you better be prepared. Seems to be a decent strategy for people who are bad at networking like I am.

supriyo-biswas 3y ago
Recruiters get a lot of flak here and elsewhere, but having recently interacted with a few for a recent job change, their incentives are aligned to have some skin in the game, and they can do the emotionally draining part of pushing the company to speed up the process for you without having to send multiple emails or waiting for months for your rejection.
- Paul-Craft 3y ago
  When you say "recruiters," do you mean in-house recruiters or third party recruiters? Getting an in-house person on your side certainly is a great way to speed along the hiring process, but I've literally never had a third party recruiter send anything my way that ever came close to working out. It's gotten to the point where if I get an email from a 3rd party recruiter, I just don't look at it -- although I'm not sure if taking a chance on one of them at this point is a higher percentage play than 100 cold applications, TBH. I suspect a lot of it has to do with the type of companies that tend to hire 3rd party recruiters. Namely, startups, and typically early stage startups who don't have any in-house recruiting staff. There's nothing at all wrong with early stage startup companies, except that my experience seems to indicate they don't actually know what they're even looking for. That's in addition to the likelihood that they just haven't been around long enough to develop a structured hiring process. I don't know. What I will say is that your incentives and a 3rd party recruiter's are not the same. They want to place you quickly and get the commission, regardless if it's the best company or the most competitive offer. You're right that they do want to keep you at least somewhat happy, because if they get a reputation for treating candidates badly, that can be fatal in their profession. But, the people they really want to keep happy are the ones writing the checks. And, in this situation, that ain't you. You are quite literally the product here.

ricardobayes 3y ago

So true, if you are applying through a webform or an email address, chances are, your application is never even going to reach human eyeballs.

skrebbel 3y ago

Fwiw: I’m an employer, and sometimes people ignore the “how to apply” instructions on our site (which say to email to jobs@) and reach out straight via eg LinkedIn and I always file those in my “can’t follow a simple instruction” pile. Not to say that what you say will never work, but I think it’s worth pointing out that at some companies, application processes might exist for a reason. For me, having all applications in a single place is key to actually being able to deal with them effectively.

jkaplowitz 3y ago
Finding a recruiter to apply through jobs which the recruiter is contracted or employed to hire for is very different than sending unsolicited spams to employees at a target company, even if both can happen on LinkedIn. It was the former suggestion that was being given.
- skrebbel 3y ago
  Ah I thought they meant a recruiter at the company and not an intermediary. Thanks.
  - jkaplowitz 3y ago
    Either way, really - many in-house recruiters do actively source via LinkedIn and encourage inbound messages there from interested candidates. But it seemed like this was a suggestion to use LinkedIn as a front door rather than as a back door.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      The bigger the employer, the more likely it is, that after a first recruiter phone screen, you still havebto go through the normal recruotment / application process, for compliance reasons mostly. No big deal, as the recruiter is working on your behalf on the other end, if he decided to invite you to an interview with the hiring manager, to fast track you application through whatever arcane or byzantine process there is.

oxfordmale 3y ago

For what it is worth, I see a slight recovery in the software engineering job market. In the first half of 2023, voluntary staff turnover was historically low in my company after redundancies at the beginning of the year. Now the economy isn't doing as badly as predicted, industry-wide layoffs are reducing frequently, and staff are regaining the confidence to move jobs again.

mightykipper 3y ago

Depending on sector, you may find you only get traction through recruiters. I work in finance, almost everything is through third party recruiters and there are two reasons for this. 1. We are only allowed to hire through either an approved recruiter or the company job portal. The company job portal gets so many applications for each job it's absurd, and we have to sift these ourselves to some degree (HR are meant to confirm we only see qualified candidates, but they're idiots) so rather than sifting the portal applications we mostly use 2-5 known recruiters who only give us candidates who can do the job. They do the first screenings, if they give us shit candidates we never use them again, so we rarely get a bad candidate through them. 2. Perks. We often meet directly with recruiters in person, and they have expense accounts and take us for lunch/drinks we don't have to pay for. This makes us want to keep using them over direct applications (yes recruiters, this 100% works, we won't use you if you're shit regardless but we'll 100% entertain looking at your candidates if you take us for lunch or drinks - check compliance limits before suggesting a venue though).

heavenlyblue 3y ago
> Perks. We often meet directly with recruiters in person, and they have expense accounts and take us for lunch/drinks we don't have to pay for. This makes us want to keep using them over direct applications (yes recruiters, this 100% works, we won't use you if you're shit regardless but we'll 100% entertain looking at your candidates if you take us for lunch or drinks - check compliance limits before suggesting a venue though). How badly are you paid?
- sebzim4500 3y ago
  Can't speak for that guy but there are definitely people who are well paid but who will go out of their way for free stuff. Don't really get it myself, I think typically such people are drastically undervaluing their time.
  - bt4u 3y ago
    [dead]

herodotusxviii 3y ago

If you don't mind, could you tell me how I should go about finding a recruiter directly on LinkedIn? I've been out of the market for three years now (had to take care of sick family) and it's extra brutal; I've been contacted by a few recruiters but I'd really like to speed up the process of networking with them if possible. Thank you. (I'm in the Inland Empire in Southern California).

nelsonic 3y ago
Connect with me: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonic https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonic I will help you fast-track this.
- abathur 3y ago
  I have a parallel-universe version of the question--from a universe where I've ~idealistically refused to create a LinkedIn account. How would you go about finding a recruiter sans LinkedIn? :)
  - richardwhiuk 3y ago
    Swallow your pride.
    - mythrwy 3y ago
      No. I will never have a Linkedin profile. I will live in the woods and eat nuts and berries first. And I'm serious about this.
  - ohgodplsno 3y ago
    You could go out, network, go to hiring fairs and various places. At which point you're pretty much always going to be asked for a LinkedIn, and pretty much noone will want to put work in for someone not doing something has simple as creating an account. So, unfortunately, as the other comment said, swallow your pride. These networks have made it so that the cost of idealism is being cut off socially, whether that's friends or employers.

wizardforhire 3y ago

This and… Use your new free time by not applying to… Work on a project that interests you and share it online Exercise both physically and fiscally Spend time with people you care about and also care about you And keep working on projects and sharing them, maybe even with hn The comments on here are legion of individuals who post some project and have to then fight away recruiters…

azangru 3y ago
What do fiscal exercises look like?
- expertentipp 3y ago
  You invest in Apple or Tesla, get hit with 30% tax, and receive communication from IRS while living in Europe and having nothing to do with USA. Then try to clarify the whole mess.
  - 0xfedbee 3y ago
    TradeRepublic
    - expertentipp 3y ago
      Not available in some EU countries I need it, but thanks!
- skrebbel 3y ago
  I think they mean “learn to buy cheaper groceries” but I hope they mean “deadlift 20 years of income tax filings”
  - expertentipp 3y ago
    My self confidence and well-being from cardio was crushed by a 4-page letter from tax office in a language I don't understand, even though I speak 3 languages already.

username_my1 3y ago

Not necesarly the only way as someone who often interviews candidates, if I'm getting bombarded by spam applications, the least you can do for me to take your CV seriously is a cover letter related to the job posting / company. I don't understand any candidate who sends out a letter without researching the company for 30 minutes and taking another 10 to write a thoughtful cover letter. if you're not willing to put that effort into your potential future position, it's not even worth opening the CV from my side.

hef19898 3y ago
That goes a long way, tailoring the CV and, if absolutely needed, cover letter for each application. The CV also when recruiters reached out to you, as they still have to present it to HR and hiring managers (also having a recruiter presenting the CV and candidate helps a lot, and means the CV can be a bit less polished). And if recruiters, or the companies behind them, require a cover letter, being contacted first by the recruiter makes writing those a lot easier since you don't have to cold sell yourself as much. And the first discusion / phone screening, ehich propably didn't require a cover letter, gives you hints and hooks to use in the letter (I say that as person who hates selling myself and especially writing cover letters, also I found my last job that way). Now the trickey part is, so, to have solid recruiters hiring for real positions reaching out to you. For some reason, they did in my case more or less every time I kind of needed it. I have not the slightest clue so why, my LinkedIn profile was up to date but far from polished... Well, I content myself with being lucky for some reason, and I am aware how lucky I am when it comes to that and quite grateful to universe, and hope to never have to go through that whole process again, because applying, getting new jobs, tinse and repeat, gets stressful at a certain point. And now I reached a point in my career where I like the stability of a job, collectively (and relatively high) bargained salary, good, bordering very good to almost stellar, retirement benefits, I job that is truely challenging (new stuff that allows me use my experience almost completely, while being borderline scary at times) working on a product for which projected end-of-service-life is over a decade after my legal retirement age. That being said, I had a period in which I had to write a ton of applications whipe seeing the clock running down on my unemployment benefits. That alone can be soul crushing, so I try to cut people somenslack when it comes to CV and cover letter polishing. It still means one shouod put some thought behind both tasks so.

whstl 3y ago

I've given up on applying through company portals for a few years. Last job I applied myself was in 2016. The rest was people reaching me via LinkedIn. I'm not a recruiter and have no vested interest in this, but the experience with recruiters from the candidate side is just completely different to justify their existence. From the company side, we also get better candidates from recruiters. Applying through portals make you feel like a second-class citizen. Companies often ignore you, ghost you, have terrible screening, take ages to respond, give no feedback. Recruiters that reached directly to you have your back and will push for timely responses, will help you negotiate a salary and will prepare you for the interview. With that said: I had good experience with internal recruiting too. My best salary offer I got was from a company that had internal recruiting (I accepted and work at this company). But I hope I never have to fill a form in a website ever again.

mooreds 3y ago
I think the right time to apply through a company portal is when you already have had conversations with folks at the company (hiring managers, recruiters, other team members) and are just "checking the box". Definitely agree, hope I never have to apply via a portal again.
- whstl 3y ago
  I would still probably refuse at this point, on grounds of having done this in the past and being "ghosted", even though there was prior conversations. If a company is interested in me, they won't make me jump through hoops. On the other hand, I'm quite experienced and popular in the job market, so things might be different for other folks.
pnutjam 3y ago
Just anecdotally, I got 2 of my last 4 jobs by direct applying with no networking, and 2 from recruiters. One internal and one external. The internal recruiter oversold the job and it was not great. The other jobs were all good and about what I expected.

otikik 3y ago

Not completely disagreeing with the OP but before going the recruiter route make sure you have exhausted the social network route. Your resume has way more chances to be considered seriously if instead of just sending it to the company inbox someone already working for that company recommends you. If you have any friends, family or ex-colleagues working on a nice place, tell them that you are looking for a position and ask them if they would mind referring you. Although it's becoming rare, some companies still have a "referral bonus" for employees that bring up other employees. You might even do them a favor.

beowulfey 3y ago
I would say an order of magnitude more likely, even. People always underestimate just how much even a tangential social connection improves your chances. (FWIW, this is also why I think recruiters work.)

marcusverus 3y ago

I would add to this that you should find a handful of recruiters and check in with all of them regularly. As long as you make sure that you don’t get submitted to the same job twice, the more recruiters you have working for you the faster you’ll find something. To find recruiters, do a Google search for recruiting firms that have physical offices in your town, find an experienced recruiter who works for them on LinkedIn, and call into the front desk asking to speak with them.

jamal-kumar 3y ago

I suggest an even more devious tactic. Run enumeration on their company and see if you can figure out their boss's PERSONAL direct email address. Send resumes there instead of info@whatevercompany.com - Often if you can figure out some scheme like first initial last name @ whatevercompany.com you can get that contact. I tend to do this by simply waltzing into the office and asking for a business card if I can. Apparently nobody does that anymore but it gets results.

drumttocs8 3y ago

I hate to say this, but many recruiters who contact me seem to reside and work from India. I get all kinds of recruiter attention, including unsolicited emails, calls, and texts, but most of them seem to be looking for a relationship where I do the work, and they subcontract with a subcontractor who's subcontracting for another contract for a major firm. It's basically spam at this point. How can we "stand out" without getting bombarded with low-quality "proposals"?

the_only_law 3y ago

> Find a recruiter on LinkedIn. They keep fucking me over. Had one a few weeks back that messaged me with 2 roles that looked like a perfect 1:1 fit for my resume. Never heard from him again.

ajhurliman 3y ago

I’ve literally never gotten a job that didn’t come through a recruiter (except my most recent job). 10 years experience, every time I want a new job I just reach out to recruiters who have contacted me recently and recruiters I’ve had good experiences with in the past, they’ll bring me a handful of random jobs and I interview for the ones that sound like a good fit. The most recent job the hiring manager saw my post on HN: who’s looking to be hired, and they just reached out directly.