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Enhance – HTML-first full stack web framework
- Takennickname 3y agoI don't see any HTML in the examples. Just Javascript. I'm very confused. Edit: Or JSX. I dunno. I successfully avoided learning react so far.
- s4i 3y ago> SSR composable HTML Custom Elements I assume that by default all that JS runs on the server and HTML gets returned to the browser.
- nonethewiser 3y agoThis starter project example is html: https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/main/app/pages/index.html https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/... What examples are you referring to?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- M4v3R 3y agoThere's only one code example on the landing page and it's a JS class.
- nonethewiser 3y agoyeah an example of the scoped dom update feature. how are you going to do that in html? It says no javascript unless you want it, not no javascript.
- capableweb 3y agoIn the very same repository: https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/main/app/head.mjs https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/... GitHub says ~30% of that repository is JavaScript code. Seems strange for a HTML-first framework.
- flagrant_taco 3y agoThe other file in that example is JS, and interestingly it uses a plain template literal without an `html` tag or anything to help with language tools and syntax highlighting https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/main/app/head.mjs https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/...
- dgb23 3y agoI don't think it's JSX but pure JS. They seem to be using tagged template literals (like lit-html does). They are essentially functions. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Template_literals https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Refe...
- hnptuser 3y agoThe site does not render in chrome for Android. Just display "{}" Edit: maybe was hugged. It's working now. But worth to checkout.
- dsego 3y agoSo it's not HTML first then.
- Takennickname 3y ago5 minute old account with just this comment. Very sus.
- hnptuser 3y agoLong time lurker. Pointed an error in a website. Didn't try to sell you nothing or convince you about anything. Corrected/edited when the site worked for me as I see others do here. Sus you say? Can't imagine the nerves in your life. Best of luck.
- shaftoe444 3y agoCutesy cartoon saying no JavaScript but all examples are JavaScript. Html first but you need npm install. Convinced this is satire designed to annoy me.
- mattw2121 3y agoSame thing. Saw "No Javascript" and then went to the example app....nothing but Javascript?
- nonethewiser 3y agoit says "No Javascript required unless you want it", not just "No Javascript."
- mark38848 3y agoOne would expect better reading comprehension from people who want websites to look like it's 1993.
- Takennickname 3y agoAs opposed to this cute website that's built for toddlers.
- mattw2121 3y agoThe very first mention of Javascript on the site is a huge graphic (full width) that says "NO JAVASCRIPT REQUIRED".
- sam0x17 3y agoWas hoping for something like htmx based on that description, oh well
- jerf 3y agoNormally I wouldn't object like this, but this actually confused me so I'll share it. This should be "HTML-first full stack web framework". I initially read as "The HTML (first full stack web framework)" which immediately soured me on the claim to somehow be the first full stack web framework. Or some other reformulation of the motto which eliminates "first full stack web framework" from a potential garden-path interpretation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence , so as to spice up my grammar complaint with an HN-style link of interest.
- rob 3y agoYou're in luck, I can still edit my post! (I just copy/pasted the website's <meta> description without thinking too much about it. I agree though.)
- soneca 3y agoCool link, thanks. And I wondered if that was possible in Portuguese, there was a Portuguese example :)
- nonethewiser 3y agoI actually read it this way too. My first reaction was "wait, what are all these other frameworks missing?"
- ezfe 3y agoSvelteKit can also run without JavaScript enabled if you use SSR and have no dynamic content...not sure what advantage this confers
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y agoHTML-first web framework, where you type server-side JS... first. I have nothing against Node and SSR but why call it "HTML-first"? It also has client-side JS. It's just a page. In any case the gigantic pink sheep and clouds that is their entire landing page demonstrate those are either not serious people, or their audience isn't.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoFelt like they were trying to do the Remix front page thing, but Remix does it right, it shows you why you want to use it as you scroll down, though to be fair, I don't know why websites that do that, don't just have a video instead. Give me a traditional website with scrolling that feels familiar and a video. I'll click play.
- Spivak 3y agoI think having the cutesy landing page is designed specifically to exclude the kind of curmudgeons who consider themselves super serious developers who only do super serious work who are too good for fun. If you've ever hung out in dev communities that skew younger it's like 90% memes and mostly positivity. They're sending all the right signals that working with them would be enjoyable which is good when you want to build a community and are just starting out.
- 3cats-in-a-coat 3y agoWhen I open the page of a framework, I want to quickly understand the value proposition of a framework. Of course the attitude you're describing, is more about memes, being cool, having fun, and having lots of free time, and yes, a lot of modern young "developers" are like that these days. They don't do much developing, but they sure have a lot of fun.
- Spivak 3y agoYou must have had a very different experience than me because I will literally never pump out as much code as I did when I was ~14-19. Free time, nigh infinite motivation and energy, and a brain that sucks up information like a shop vac after a flood.
- nonethewiser 3y agoI'm not sure its fair to criticize this framework because it includes javascript in the examples and the website. HTML first doesn't mean HTML only. How about this example? https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/main/app/pages/index.html https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/...
- Takennickname 3y agoI think it's completely fair to criticize it. It's claiming to be "the" html framework, but then you have sveltekit and Astro which are far more HTML friendly and easier to get started on for non JS devs. This just comes off as a ploy to hijack the meaning of HTML.
- Takennickname 3y agoContinued: No one is complaining about the framework itself. Everyone is talking about what you're claiming to be, which you're not. The quality of the framework itself hasn't been alluded to.
- PaulHoule 3y agoThe docs do a really poor job of explaining what value the framework is bringing to the table. I’d contrast that to HTMX, Vue, Svelte and many other frameworks that do. (You may or may not like those frameworks but they all stand for something.). Even the new React documents do a great job of explaining they value of React even though React is so established it could easily have a “your team is using React, everybody is using React, you will use React” attitude. Instead “enhanced” jumps right into “Meet the new Javascript routing framework, same as the old Javascript routing framework”. Maybe it is “No Javascript” in the same sense that software vendor Salesforce.com had the tagline “No software”.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- yohannparis 3y ago
- Xeamek 3y agoAll the arguments about using javascript aside, I really enjoy this website's look&feel
- turnsout 3y agoAt this point, HTML+CSS is so full-featured, I think we need to question why a framework is necessary at all. Especially if you don’t need JS.
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoAnything new since? More discussion from last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32987840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32987840
- outsidetheparty 3y ago"HTML First" versus "HTML Only" aside, I hadn't heard of this one before, and it looks promising. I've been looking for simpler frameworks that do less, because I'm tired of coming back to projects I've set aside for six months or a year and having to basically relearn and rewrite them to match all the updates and incompatible changes the framework made in the meantime. At first glance this looks like it handles the essentials and doesn't try too hard to handle anything else; I'm going to give it a try.
- stagas 3y agoLooks great, congrats! For those wondering, it's a Web Components framework in the style of Next.js. Web Components are standard HTML elements, hence HTML-first (at least that's how I interpret it).
- beanjuiceII 3y agoofftopic: why do people think websites like this are useful?
- herio 3y agoIt looks like a 1990s webpage with modern visual design made for children. I kept waiting for the <blink> marquee and the "under construction" gif to show up as I was scrolling through. Utterly useless.
- russelg 3y agoYes, every website should look the same, and no one should ever get creative with design.
- noaoh 3y agoThey're good for selling people on your product. I think for a web framework it's a bit style over substance however.
- MichaelYuhe 3y agoJust tried to deploy the starter website on Zeabur and found this requires 130MB memory? https://enhance-demo.zeabur.app/ https://enhance-demo.zeabur.app/
- stefanvdw1 3y agoUnrelated but how do you like zeabur? Looks interesting but haven’t heard anything about it yet
- MichaelYuhe 3y agoUnlike Vercel, Zeabur can deploy full-stack services, including front-end, back-end, and the database. You can try it here: https://zeabur.com https://zeabur.com
- Alifatisk 3y agoWhat exactly required 130 MB of memory? The dev server? The website itself? The Zeabour executable?
- MichaelYuhe 3y agoI just saw the memory usage on Zeabur dashboard.
- timw4mail 3y agoSo I think what they are going for is making client-side and server-side html generation feel much more similar. If they are doing this without the huge inefficiency, of say, React server-side rendering, it seems like a good idea. Pretty sure what they mean by "no Javascript" is no client-side Javascript. The idea of component-based rendering for server-side is actually nice.
- CrzyLngPwd 3y agoThere's 3,000+ lines of CSS in that web page. :-O
- anon7331 3y agoI find it hard to trust a framework that looks so "cutesy".
- sazz 3y agoI'm curious - how does Enhance manage state updates? Is there some mechanism to push component updates to the client once the state changes?
- threesevenths 3y agoAs others might have pointed out, HTMX is an actual HTML framework. Load a single is file and use attributes in your HTML to perform actions and bind data.
- let_var 3y agoGreat work team enhance.dev, web components is the way to go. I read a lot of strong opinions about the use of NPM when the framework boasts “No JavaScript”. Probably it’s a fair point. But I’d still like to see more enhance and Lit-like frameworks - yes I said framework, cause it takes you one step closer to the native browser.
- throwaway290 3y agoI was wondering how it's built and I found out that it's "build-less" but requires a Node backend to serve. Can't just deploy on S3.
- whatdoyamean 3y ago[flagged]