11 ms·

Microsoft Owns the Trademark for “X”

215 points by CharlesW 3y ago

lordkrandel 3y ago
Looks on point, huh
Clamchop 3y ago
It's scoped to video games and associated entertainment and services so it shouldn't apply to Twitter, if that's what this post is getting at.
- devalnor 3y ago
  "Entertainment services, namely, providing interactive multiplayer game services for games played over computer networks and global communications networks; providing computer games and video games downloadable over computer global communications networks; providing information on the video game and computer game industries via the Internet; and providing information on computer games, video games, video game consoles and accessories therefor via the Internet"
- tchbnl 3y ago
  I recommend checking under "Goods and Services" on that page. Some of those seem _just_ vague enough that Twitter could run afoul of them.
  - gruez 3y ago
    The fact that it's vague also means it's easier to have it invalidated on the basis that it's too broad.
    - Retric 3y ago
      Vague but still within a narrow domain which is much harder to invalidate for being too broad. The Internet seems huge to programmers, but it’s still a fairly narrow slice of economic activity. We aren’t talking about nursery schools, hospitals, fast food, or even the XGames etc just because they happen to have a website.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- superfrank 3y ago
  Musk's vision for X seems to be an everything app similar to WeChat. Wouldn't MS's trademark at least limit him from expanding X into gaming?
  - netsharc 3y ago
    Or, it seems, any tweet that talks about gaming. It'd be funny if gaming companies and publications had to be removed from Twitter because of this trademark issue. Or if a Microsoft game studio tweeted about a game and it'd be a basis for a Microsoft trademark lawsuit against Twitter: A similar sort of trademark fight: > In 1978, Apple Corps, the Beatles-founded holding company and owner of their record label, Apple Records, filed a lawsuit against Apple Computer for trademark infringement. The suit was settled in 1981 with an undisclosed amount being paid to Apple Corps. [...] As a condition of the settlement, Apple Computer agreed not to enter the music business, and Apple Corps agreed not to enter the computer business. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
fredoralive 3y ago
At least in relation to video games.
deleted 3y ago
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colechristensen 3y ago
For computer gaming things yes. You could, for example register your own trademark on X for selling unusual bananas without violating Microsoft’s mark >Providing on-line chat rooms for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games; providing on-line electronic bulletin boards for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games > Entertainment services, namely, providing interactive multiplayer game services for games played over computer networks and global communications networks; providing computer games and video games downloadable over computer global communications networks; providing information on the video game and computer game industries via the Internet; and providing information on computer games, video games, video game consoles and accessories therefor via the Internet
- brewdad 3y ago
  This MS trademark could certainly put a damper on X becoming the "everything" app for the internet even if it doesn't appear to be an issue for The Site Formerly Known as Twitter currently.
  - valianteffort 3y ago
    No it won't, because you can't trademark usage of a letter generally.
signal_space 3y ago
https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_... ms sold this one to meta
- nateb2022 3y ago
  This one is much more applicable to Musk's X: > Design and development of computer software; providing interactive websites featuring technology that enable online users to create personal profiles; providing online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software, for transmitting and for receiving live streaming; providing online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software, for transmitting and for receiving video on demand; electronic storage of electronic media, namely, images, text, video, and audio data; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for broadcasting, transmitting, receiving, accessing, viewing, uploading, downloading, sharing, integrating, encoding, decoding, displaying, formatting, organizing, storing, caching, transferring and streaming of data, text, games, game content, digital media, images, music, audio, video and animations; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for sending, receiving and organizing electronic mail, messaging, enabling internet chat and social networking; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for purchasing and subscribing to digital media content; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for developing and publishing applications for interactive streaming; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for management and storage of digital media; computer software consulting services in the field of gaming technology and graphics software; computer programming services; providing temporary use of non-downloadable game software; Application service provider (ASP), namely, hosting computer software applications of others; hosting of third party digital content in the nature of photos, videos, audio, music, text, data, images, software, applications, games, web sites and other electronic works on the Internet; hosting of digital content on the Internet; consulting in the field of the design and development of computer hardware, software, software applications, and computer networks; digital and electronic file data transfer from one computer format to another; provision of Internet and computer network search engines; graphic design services; Software as a Service (SAAS) featuring software for facilitating audio, video and digital content creation, subscriptions and one-time purchases; creating an online community for computer users to participate in discussions, obtain feedback, form virtual communities, and engage in social networking; software maintenance, installation and update services; providing a website featuring technology that enables users to live stream gaming content, music, audio, video and animations > Online social networking services; online social networking services, namely, facilitating social introductions or interactions among individuals; social networking services in the fields of entertainment, gaming and application development; providing information about social networking that involves online gaming, online video games and online video gaming applications; providing an Internet website portal for engaging in social networking; providing information, news, commentary in the field of social networking
deleted 3y ago
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amelius 3y ago
Didn't Alphabet already own the entire alphabet?
- deleted 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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thisgoodlife 3y ago
I didn’t know a letter can be trademarked. If let’s say Xerox decides to get into the video game business, can Microsoft sue them for trademark infringement?
- bawolff 3y ago
  A trademark on "X" doesn't block using 'Xerox'
- killingtime74 3y ago
  Xerox is not "X". You may be interested in doing some research in this area what is trade markable and also the procedure. Even if the trademark is registered it can still be challenged. Other interesting things that can be trademarked include colours and sounds, even scents
  - panzi 3y ago
    In the EU there even is a "3D trademark". One famous example is the LEGO mini figure, which LEGO uses to sue anyone that tries to sell any remotely similar LEGO compatible mini figure.
jasmer 3y ago
[dead]
kibwen 3y ago
According to this one: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_... , it seems to be Meta that owns the trademark for X, for about a zillion application domains; expand the "Goods and Services" expando and see for yourself. EDIT: The last one in the list is in regard to this domain: > Online social networking services; online social networking services, namely, facilitating social introductions or interactions among individuals; social networking services in the fields of entertainment, gaming and application development; providing information about social networking that involves online gaming, online video games and online video gaming applications; providing an Internet website portal for engaging in social networking; providing information, news, commentary in the field of social networking
- soligern 3y ago
  Aren’t Musk and the Zuck feuding right now? This is a hilarious setup.
  - TX81Z 3y ago
    Elon had this planned out from the start, 50 steps ahead. Make an outrageously high bid on a site with no consistent profit, try desperately to get out of the deal, and fail (as a misdirection of course), alienate power users, kill 50% of revenue, totally nuke site reliability, lose all the top talent, and of course, rack up a pile of lawsuits a mile deep. And only THEN, blow everybody’s mind by jettisoning a brand so valuable it is a globally recognized verb, rebranding using your competitors IP, and take over 50% of global banking.* (* this is actually what he said.)
    - TechBro8615 3y ago
      Is Twitter usage (measured in daily active user hours per day) lower now than it was before the acquisition?
      - MBCook 3y ago
dfc 3y ago
Every time I have seen the logo I thought of X.org logo: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Foundation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Foundation
- Kye 3y ago
  They've been goofing on this on Mastodon. https://floss.social/@XOrgFoundation/110769211019949515 https://floss.social/@XOrgFoundation/110769211019949515
adfm 3y ago
There's also X, the moonshot company (Google, Alphabet) https://x.company https://x.company
eccodown 3y ago
X owns the trademark for "X" simply by using it, whether it was registered with a trademark office or not. It certainly doesn't hurt that Elon's company registered X.com in 1993, then he purchased it from Paypal in 2017 and has been using it in various capacities since then.
- thisgoesnowhere 3y ago
  Hasn't it been a blank page with a x for a long ass time?
  - eccodown 3y ago
    Transmitting an 'x' online, seems like he's in the data transmission business. It has also been used as a redirect to The Boring Company website to sell hats.
- ehhthing 3y ago
  They owned the trademark for X scoped to banking and financial services. Meta owns the trademark scoped to social media.
  - eccodown 3y ago
    Trademark is established by use. Registration can offer an extra level of protection, but is not necessary to own a trademark. Elon has been using his X.com since he bought it back from PayPal in 2017, which interestingly is around the time some of these other 'X' registrations took place.
  - CydeWeys 3y ago
    Is Meta using the trademark "X" for social media though? I haven't seen it. They're not gonna win anything if they're not actually using it. That's like the first and most important thing.
  - winddude 3y ago
    and it sounds like the logo is just a unicode character <https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F>, or from a standard font <https://catalog.monotype.com/font/monotype/special-alphabets/4 https://catalog.monotype.com/font/monotype/special-alphabets...>.
user3939382 3y ago
Twitter no doubt has a huge legal department that ran a trademark search and decided their use was permissible.
- cwkoss 3y ago
  not anymore!
- stevage 3y ago
  Had.
- arkitaip 3y ago
  They don't have departments anymore and I don't think they can afford legal advice. It's probably just Elon using ChatGPT.
- smegger001 3y ago
  not sure if sarcastic or not. with musk at the helm and with the how he has been firing large swaths of people and has a habit of impulsively acting i wouldn't count on it.
- lazide 3y ago
  First they’d need to still work there, and second he’d need to listen to them. Good luck!
dbingham 3y ago
Do you need to actively use and defend a trademark to maintain it? And does using and defending "X-box" don't the same as "X"?
freehorse 3y ago
> Standard Character Claim: No > Mark Drawing Type: 1 - TYPESET WORD(S) /LETTER(S) /NUMBER(S) They do not own the trademark for the letter "X" (that would make a "Standard Character Claim") but the very specific typeset, as featured on the right side of the linked page. Here [1] it patents a specific illustration format of X. Again no standard character claim. So no issue for former twitter, as you can easily see the typeset is very different. I do not know if there is any precedent of a standard character claim for a single letter, but that would really sound ridiculous to me tbh. [1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...
- ehhthing 3y ago
  https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/ https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/ The two are equivalent.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    No, they aren't, and your source doesn't say they are. This is your source's description of the type of trademark that Meta has on X (AN ILLUSTRATION DRAWING WITH WORD(S) /LETTER(S)/ NUMBER(S) INSTYLIZED FORM): > This Type is similar to “STANDARD CHARACTER MARK” in that it can only include words or phrases, and not images, however it does include a claim as to the particular stylization (font) and may, but do not have to, claim color. For example, the trademark “NETFLIX” written in stylized red font. Edit: The source below is a bit more clear on the differences. https://www.mavenip.com/blog/standard-character-mark-or-logo-design-mark/ https://www.mavenip.com/blog/standard-character-mark-or-logo...
    - PeterCorless 3y ago
      At least Meta made a unique mark. "𝕏" is a mathematical symbol, known as a doublestruck, or blackboard bold, letter X. You can't get trademark on a mathematical symbol, generally. https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_bold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_bold Such a letter 𝕏 is sometimes used to represent arbitrary or generic metric space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_space There is already another Hacker News thread that is dealing with this specific symbol: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36846076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36846076
zeroimpl 3y ago
> Mark Type: Service Mark Doesn't this just mean they own the rights to their use as a logo? Eg the stylized X on their products? I don't think this blocks anybody from using X in their products as long as the logos are clearly different.
panzi 3y ago
Can you trademark an Unicode character? 𝕏
electricmonk 3y ago
IANYL. Microsoft owns a trademark registration for X [standard character] for certain goods and services (see: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US...). Meta owns a trademark registration for X (Stylized), which Microsoft apparently assigned to Meta (see https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...). Musk as been using X in various capacities since the 90s, and depending on the specifics of that use, may have some common law trademark rights in the mark. Regardless of whether or not any party has a registration for a particular trademark/service mark identifying certain goods/services, the question about whether the marks should be allowed to co-exist depends on whether there is a likelihood that there will be confusion between the 2 marks in the marketplace (defining the appropriate marketplace is part of the test for any given likelihood of confusion analysis). There are some other concerns, such as dilution with respect to famous marks that may or may not come into play, but likelihood of [consumer] confusion is the root of it.
- CydeWeys 3y ago
  Meta and Microsoft may have registered those trademarks but I haven't seen them using them, so they might struggle to actually defend them in court against someone who is very clearly actually using "X". Honestly Apple probably has the best shot, as they do use "X" prominently. Mac OS X, iPhone X, etc.
  - electricmonk 3y ago
    IANYL. Just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean there is a market (e.g., b2b) where they may be using them. Also, in this particular instance, since these are registered we can look at what they have provided the USPTO as evidence of use in order to renew the registrations. Microsoft (I think the X involved might actually be the X on the globe logo): https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docId=SPE20221228152814&linkId=3#docIndex=2&page=1 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docI.... For Microsoft's use before assigning to Meta: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn87980831&docId=SPE20190508154150&linkId=12#docIndex=11&page=1 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn87980831&docI.... For that second one, looks like MS sold some assets to Meta after is shut down its Mixer service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(service) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(service) Apple does use X a lot in product names, but (i) the use is never on its own, so the comparison of the marks is, e.g., X vs Mac OS X, and (ii) Apple generally uses X to denote "10" so that portion of the mark is arguably descriptive or generic as a version number (see https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/print?version=current&href=TMEP-1200d1e6980.html https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/print?version=current&href=...).
10g1k 3y ago
The Microsoft application (which was granted) was only in relation to online games, messaging services related to such games, and so on, as described in the trademark application. It's not a universal "We own the letter x!"
hoc 3y ago
x> The Norwegian Blue... 44 billion volts... This is an X-Parrot!!
snoochyboochies 3y ago
I have no idea of the legalities of this. Personally, I feel the rebrand of Twitter to X was a pretty dumb move. However like most discourse nowadays, I can't trust a single take on any of this. It's all predictably far more political than fact-based in a sort of self-fulfilling, postmodern, prophesy. Digg was utterly destroyed by this. Then Reddit, which has not died, but is utterly captured and zombified. HackerNews is the last bastion of this - and it is certainly the best, but is clearly being Digg/Reddit'fied. Whatever this ideological capture cancer zombification is - it's cancer. If you are reading this, recognize it is probably happening to you too. Seems inevitable.
- hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
  What is this about reddit being zombified? Dont they have huge traffic?
  - snoochyboochies 3y ago
    The once hilarious, once satirical, r/pyongyang subreddit is now unironically an influential bastion of Communist propaganda. Its contributors are no longer ironic or ban-posting - they are true believers, and they're indistinguishable from the moderators of most all major subreddits & the corporate overlords who tacitly support them. At this point, none even bother to pretend they believe in "free speech" as a human right. The "you have now been banned by r/pyongyang" punchline is now far more relevant to any subreddit, thread or comment that is not sufficiently left wing (as defined by current date/time). Reddit is "democratic" insofar as the most upvoted thread/comment makes it to the top, right? No. Around 2016, something happened. (Won't speculate here). Now every default subreddit is run/moderated by explicitly far left wing activists. All non-default subreddits with any level of popularity is similarly run/moderated by explicitly far left wing activists. If it ain't far left Tumblr leftist, it's right wing, and it shall be either annexed by a left wing mod and converted or outright banned. I'd love to hear HN's strategy to combat this. It is truly nuts. But at this point, we all expect it.
    - snoochyboochies 3y ago
gerdesj 3y ago
This is getting out of hand. X: is it "ecs" or "chi" ... and that's only the Latin and Greek alphabets. https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docId=DRW20000503000000&linkId=25#docIndex=24&page=1 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docI... ... shows a u/c Latin X with serifs. However the current "status" shows the Mark as: X ie sans-serif. Is there a difference with respect to a trademark, in the US, between X avec au sans serif? You obviously can't trademark something drawn from the commons - so the letter X itself is probably out of bounds unless you use it in an innovative way. To become a trademark, you need to innovate in some way ... be distinctive. X ie two short lines crossing at their mid point at an angle between 30 and 45 degrees (can easily be made more formal) defines ... x. The original filing seems to define X with embellishments (serifs). The current Status implies X without embellishments. Also, the original depiction is pixelated and the L to R stroke is thicker than the R to L stroke. Its all a bit woolly
ejz 3y ago
The two classes focus on video games, so I think (Twitt)er is fine (though if Twitter launched a Twitch competitor one could see it becoming a problem for them!)
blairanderson 3y ago
Microsoft doesn't offer "X" social media service. This headline is FUD.
tamimio 3y ago
[flagged]
Sunspark 3y ago
> Twitter's autoresponder replied "We'll get back to you soon." This is impressive. No more poop emoji?

215 points by CharlesW 3y ago

Looks on point, huh

It's scoped to video games and associated entertainment and services so it shouldn't apply to Twitter, if that's what this post is getting at.

devalnor 3y ago
"Entertainment services, namely, providing interactive multiplayer game services for games played over computer networks and global communications networks; providing computer games and video games downloadable over computer global communications networks; providing information on the video game and computer game industries via the Internet; and providing information on computer games, video games, video game consoles and accessories therefor via the Internet"
tchbnl 3y ago
I recommend checking under "Goods and Services" on that page. Some of those seem _just_ vague enough that Twitter could run afoul of them.
- gruez 3y ago
  The fact that it's vague also means it's easier to have it invalidated on the basis that it's too broad.
  - Retric 3y ago
    Vague but still within a narrow domain which is much harder to invalidate for being too broad. The Internet seems huge to programmers, but it’s still a fairly narrow slice of economic activity. We aren’t talking about nursery schools, hospitals, fast food, or even the XGames etc just because they happen to have a website.
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superfrank 3y ago
Musk's vision for X seems to be an everything app similar to WeChat. Wouldn't MS's trademark at least limit him from expanding X into gaming?
- netsharc 3y ago
  Or, it seems, any tweet that talks about gaming. It'd be funny if gaming companies and publications had to be removed from Twitter because of this trademark issue. Or if a Microsoft game studio tweeted about a game and it'd be a basis for a Microsoft trademark lawsuit against Twitter: A similar sort of trademark fight: > In 1978, Apple Corps, the Beatles-founded holding company and owner of their record label, Apple Records, filed a lawsuit against Apple Computer for trademark infringement. The suit was settled in 1981 with an undisclosed amount being paid to Apple Corps. [...] As a condition of the settlement, Apple Computer agreed not to enter the music business, and Apple Corps agreed not to enter the computer business. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

fredoralive 3y ago

At least in relation to video games.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

colechristensen 3y ago

For computer gaming things yes. You could, for example register your own trademark on X for selling unusual bananas without violating Microsoft’s mark >Providing on-line chat rooms for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games; providing on-line electronic bulletin boards for transmission of messages among computer users concerning video and computer games > Entertainment services, namely, providing interactive multiplayer game services for games played over computer networks and global communications networks; providing computer games and video games downloadable over computer global communications networks; providing information on the video game and computer game industries via the Internet; and providing information on computer games, video games, video game consoles and accessories therefor via the Internet

brewdad 3y ago
This MS trademark could certainly put a damper on X becoming the "everything" app for the internet even if it doesn't appear to be an issue for The Site Formerly Known as Twitter currently.
- valianteffort 3y ago
  No it won't, because you can't trademark usage of a letter generally.

signal_space 3y ago

https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_... ms sold this one to meta

nateb2022 3y ago
This one is much more applicable to Musk's X: > Design and development of computer software; providing interactive websites featuring technology that enable online users to create personal profiles; providing online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software, for transmitting and for receiving live streaming; providing online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software, for transmitting and for receiving video on demand; electronic storage of electronic media, namely, images, text, video, and audio data; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for broadcasting, transmitting, receiving, accessing, viewing, uploading, downloading, sharing, integrating, encoding, decoding, displaying, formatting, organizing, storing, caching, transferring and streaming of data, text, games, game content, digital media, images, music, audio, video and animations; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for sending, receiving and organizing electronic mail, messaging, enabling internet chat and social networking; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for purchasing and subscribing to digital media content; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for developing and publishing applications for interactive streaming; providing temporary use of online non-downloadable software and software as a service (SaaS) services featuring software for management and storage of digital media; computer software consulting services in the field of gaming technology and graphics software; computer programming services; providing temporary use of non-downloadable game software; Application service provider (ASP), namely, hosting computer software applications of others; hosting of third party digital content in the nature of photos, videos, audio, music, text, data, images, software, applications, games, web sites and other electronic works on the Internet; hosting of digital content on the Internet; consulting in the field of the design and development of computer hardware, software, software applications, and computer networks; digital and electronic file data transfer from one computer format to another; provision of Internet and computer network search engines; graphic design services; Software as a Service (SAAS) featuring software for facilitating audio, video and digital content creation, subscriptions and one-time purchases; creating an online community for computer users to participate in discussions, obtain feedback, form virtual communities, and engage in social networking; software maintenance, installation and update services; providing a website featuring technology that enables users to live stream gaming content, music, audio, video and animations > Online social networking services; online social networking services, namely, facilitating social introductions or interactions among individuals; social networking services in the fields of entertainment, gaming and application development; providing information about social networking that involves online gaming, online video games and online video gaming applications; providing an Internet website portal for engaging in social networking; providing information, news, commentary in the field of social networking

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amelius 3y ago

Didn't Alphabet already own the entire alphabet?

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thisgoodlife 3y ago

I didn’t know a letter can be trademarked. If let’s say Xerox decides to get into the video game business, can Microsoft sue them for trademark infringement?

bawolff 3y ago
A trademark on "X" doesn't block using 'Xerox'
killingtime74 3y ago
Xerox is not "X". You may be interested in doing some research in this area what is trade markable and also the procedure. Even if the trademark is registered it can still be challenged. Other interesting things that can be trademarked include colours and sounds, even scents
- panzi 3y ago
  In the EU there even is a "3D trademark". One famous example is the LEGO mini figure, which LEGO uses to sue anyone that tries to sell any remotely similar LEGO compatible mini figure.

jasmer 3y ago

[dead]

kibwen 3y ago

According to this one: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_... , it seems to be Meta that owns the trademark for X, for about a zillion application domains; expand the "Goods and Services" expando and see for yourself. EDIT: The last one in the list is in regard to this domain: > Online social networking services; online social networking services, namely, facilitating social introductions or interactions among individuals; social networking services in the fields of entertainment, gaming and application development; providing information about social networking that involves online gaming, online video games and online video gaming applications; providing an Internet website portal for engaging in social networking; providing information, news, commentary in the field of social networking

soligern 3y ago
Aren’t Musk and the Zuck feuding right now? This is a hilarious setup.
- TX81Z 3y ago
  Elon had this planned out from the start, 50 steps ahead. Make an outrageously high bid on a site with no consistent profit, try desperately to get out of the deal, and fail (as a misdirection of course), alienate power users, kill 50% of revenue, totally nuke site reliability, lose all the top talent, and of course, rack up a pile of lawsuits a mile deep. And only THEN, blow everybody’s mind by jettisoning a brand so valuable it is a globally recognized verb, rebranding using your competitors IP, and take over 50% of global banking.* (* this is actually what he said.)
  - TechBro8615 3y ago
    Is Twitter usage (measured in daily active user hours per day) lower now than it was before the acquisition?
    - MBCook 3y ago

dfc 3y ago

Every time I have seen the logo I thought of X.org logo: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Foundation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Foundation

Kye 3y ago
They've been goofing on this on Mastodon. https://floss.social/@XOrgFoundation/110769211019949515 https://floss.social/@XOrgFoundation/110769211019949515

adfm 3y ago

There's also X, the moonshot company (Google, Alphabet) https://x.company https://x.company

eccodown 3y ago

X owns the trademark for "X" simply by using it, whether it was registered with a trademark office or not. It certainly doesn't hurt that Elon's company registered X.com in 1993, then he purchased it from Paypal in 2017 and has been using it in various capacities since then.

thisgoesnowhere 3y ago
Hasn't it been a blank page with a x for a long ass time?
- eccodown 3y ago
  Transmitting an 'x' online, seems like he's in the data transmission business. It has also been used as a redirect to The Boring Company website to sell hats.
ehhthing 3y ago
They owned the trademark for X scoped to banking and financial services. Meta owns the trademark scoped to social media.
- eccodown 3y ago
  Trademark is established by use. Registration can offer an extra level of protection, but is not necessary to own a trademark. Elon has been using his X.com since he bought it back from PayPal in 2017, which interestingly is around the time some of these other 'X' registrations took place.
- CydeWeys 3y ago
  Is Meta using the trademark "X" for social media though? I haven't seen it. They're not gonna win anything if they're not actually using it. That's like the first and most important thing.
- winddude 3y ago
  and it sounds like the logo is just a unicode character <https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F>, or from a standard font <https://catalog.monotype.com/font/monotype/special-alphabets/4 https://catalog.monotype.com/font/monotype/special-alphabets...>.

user3939382 3y ago

Twitter no doubt has a huge legal department that ran a trademark search and decided their use was permissible.

cwkoss 3y ago
not anymore!
stevage 3y ago
Had.
arkitaip 3y ago
They don't have departments anymore and I don't think they can afford legal advice. It's probably just Elon using ChatGPT.
smegger001 3y ago
not sure if sarcastic or not. with musk at the helm and with the how he has been firing large swaths of people and has a habit of impulsively acting i wouldn't count on it.
lazide 3y ago
First they’d need to still work there, and second he’d need to listen to them. Good luck!

dbingham 3y ago

Do you need to actively use and defend a trademark to maintain it? And does using and defending "X-box" don't the same as "X"?

freehorse 3y ago

> Standard Character Claim: No > Mark Drawing Type: 1 - TYPESET WORD(S) /LETTER(S) /NUMBER(S) They do not own the trademark for the letter "X" (that would make a "Standard Character Claim") but the very specific typeset, as featured on the right side of the linked page. Here [1] it patents a specific illustration format of X. Again no standard character claim. So no issue for former twitter, as you can easily see the typeset is very different. I do not know if there is any precedent of a standard character claim for a single letter, but that would really sound ridiculous to me tbh. [1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...

ehhthing 3y ago
https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/ https://trademarkgarden.com/2018/03/09/amazon-and-you/ The two are equivalent.
- lolinder 3y ago
  No, they aren't, and your source doesn't say they are. This is your source's description of the type of trademark that Meta has on X (AN ILLUSTRATION DRAWING WITH WORD(S) /LETTER(S)/ NUMBER(S) INSTYLIZED FORM): > This Type is similar to “STANDARD CHARACTER MARK” in that it can only include words or phrases, and not images, however it does include a claim as to the particular stylization (font) and may, but do not have to, claim color. For example, the trademark “NETFLIX” written in stylized red font. Edit: The source below is a bit more clear on the differences. https://www.mavenip.com/blog/standard-character-mark-or-logo-design-mark/ https://www.mavenip.com/blog/standard-character-mark-or-logo...
  - PeterCorless 3y ago
    At least Meta made a unique mark. "𝕏" is a mathematical symbol, known as a doublestruck, or blackboard bold, letter X. You can't get trademark on a mathematical symbol, generally. https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1D54F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_bold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_bold Such a letter 𝕏 is sometimes used to represent arbitrary or generic metric space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_space There is already another Hacker News thread that is dealing with this specific symbol: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36846076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36846076

zeroimpl 3y ago

> Mark Type: Service Mark Doesn't this just mean they own the rights to their use as a logo? Eg the stylized X on their products? I don't think this blocks anybody from using X in their products as long as the logos are clearly different.

panzi 3y ago

Can you trademark an Unicode character? 𝕏

electricmonk 3y ago

IANYL. Microsoft owns a trademark registration for X [standard character] for certain goods and services (see: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2693757&caseSearchType=US...). Meta owns a trademark registration for X (Stylized), which Microsoft apparently assigned to Meta (see https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=87980831&caseType=SERIAL_...). Musk as been using X in various capacities since the 90s, and depending on the specifics of that use, may have some common law trademark rights in the mark. Regardless of whether or not any party has a registration for a particular trademark/service mark identifying certain goods/services, the question about whether the marks should be allowed to co-exist depends on whether there is a likelihood that there will be confusion between the 2 marks in the marketplace (defining the appropriate marketplace is part of the test for any given likelihood of confusion analysis). There are some other concerns, such as dilution with respect to famous marks that may or may not come into play, but likelihood of [consumer] confusion is the root of it.

CydeWeys 3y ago
Meta and Microsoft may have registered those trademarks but I haven't seen them using them, so they might struggle to actually defend them in court against someone who is very clearly actually using "X". Honestly Apple probably has the best shot, as they do use "X" prominently. Mac OS X, iPhone X, etc.
- electricmonk 3y ago
  IANYL. Just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean there is a market (e.g., b2b) where they may be using them. Also, in this particular instance, since these are registered we can look at what they have provided the USPTO as evidence of use in order to renew the registrations. Microsoft (I think the X involved might actually be the X on the globe logo): https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docId=SPE20221228152814&linkId=3#docIndex=2&page=1 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docI.... For Microsoft's use before assigning to Meta: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn87980831&docId=SPE20190508154150&linkId=12#docIndex=11&page=1 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn87980831&docI.... For that second one, looks like MS sold some assets to Meta after is shut down its Mixer service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(service) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(service) Apple does use X a lot in product names, but (i) the use is never on its own, so the comparison of the marks is, e.g., X vs Mac OS X, and (ii) Apple generally uses X to denote "10" so that portion of the mark is arguably descriptive or generic as a version number (see https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/print?version=current&href=TMEP-1200d1e6980.html https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/print?version=current&href=...).

10g1k 3y ago

The Microsoft application (which was granted) was only in relation to online games, messaging services related to such games, and so on, as described in the trademark application. It's not a universal "We own the letter x!"

hoc 3y ago

x> The Norwegian Blue... 44 billion volts... This is an X-Parrot!!

snoochyboochies 3y ago

I have no idea of the legalities of this. Personally, I feel the rebrand of Twitter to X was a pretty dumb move. However like most discourse nowadays, I can't trust a single take on any of this. It's all predictably far more political than fact-based in a sort of self-fulfilling, postmodern, prophesy. Digg was utterly destroyed by this. Then Reddit, which has not died, but is utterly captured and zombified. HackerNews is the last bastion of this - and it is certainly the best, but is clearly being Digg/Reddit'fied. Whatever this ideological capture cancer zombification is - it's cancer. If you are reading this, recognize it is probably happening to you too. Seems inevitable.

hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
What is this about reddit being zombified? Dont they have huge traffic?
- snoochyboochies 3y ago
  The once hilarious, once satirical, r/pyongyang subreddit is now unironically an influential bastion of Communist propaganda. Its contributors are no longer ironic or ban-posting - they are true believers, and they're indistinguishable from the moderators of most all major subreddits & the corporate overlords who tacitly support them. At this point, none even bother to pretend they believe in "free speech" as a human right. The "you have now been banned by r/pyongyang" punchline is now far more relevant to any subreddit, thread or comment that is not sufficiently left wing (as defined by current date/time). Reddit is "democratic" insofar as the most upvoted thread/comment makes it to the top, right? No. Around 2016, something happened. (Won't speculate here). Now every default subreddit is run/moderated by explicitly far left wing activists. All non-default subreddits with any level of popularity is similarly run/moderated by explicitly far left wing activists. If it ain't far left Tumblr leftist, it's right wing, and it shall be either annexed by a left wing mod and converted or outright banned. I'd love to hear HN's strategy to combat this. It is truly nuts. But at this point, we all expect it.
  - snoochyboochies 3y ago

gerdesj 3y ago

This is getting out of hand. X: is it "ecs" or "chi" ... and that's only the Latin and Greek alphabets. https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docId=DRW20000503000000&linkId=25#docIndex=24&page=1 https://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn76041368&docI... ... shows a u/c Latin X with serifs. However the current "status" shows the Mark as: X ie sans-serif. Is there a difference with respect to a trademark, in the US, between X avec au sans serif? You obviously can't trademark something drawn from the commons - so the letter X itself is probably out of bounds unless you use it in an innovative way. To become a trademark, you need to innovate in some way ... be distinctive. X ie two short lines crossing at their mid point at an angle between 30 and 45 degrees (can easily be made more formal) defines ... x. The original filing seems to define X with embellishments (serifs). The current Status implies X without embellishments. Also, the original depiction is pixelated and the L to R stroke is thicker than the R to L stroke. Its all a bit woolly

ejz 3y ago

The two classes focus on video games, so I think (Twitt)er is fine (though if Twitter launched a Twitch competitor one could see it becoming a problem for them!)

blairanderson 3y ago

Microsoft doesn't offer "X" social media service. This headline is FUD.

tamimio 3y ago

[flagged]

Sunspark 3y ago

> Twitter's autoresponder replied "We'll get back to you soon." This is impressive. No more poop emoji?