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I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She t

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatically likely to have certain traits. Insulting to say the least, and hypocritical. This same girl had just been arguing with someone else about not making assumptions about people, but she couldn't see the issue.

luc4sdreyer 3y ago
I've experienced similar things many times. Maybe in the future I should propose a $10 bet, where they get three guesses.
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  Only a pisces would say that!
  - 1659447091 3y ago
    No, pretty obviously a capricorn
    - mattgreenrocks 3y ago
      As a Capricorn, I definitely would!
whakim 3y ago
While I agree that astrology is complete nonsense, you're not likely to win many people over when you treat stereotyping (which you've described here) and racism as equivalent.
- gedy 3y ago
  > when you treat stereotyping (which you've described here) and racism as equivalent. But that's literally what people now call stereotyping: "that's racist"
  - Thorrez 3y ago
    Some stereotyping is racist, but not all.
- ycombinete 3y ago
  Your parent said "akin to racism". You're not likely to win many people over, when you treat "akin" and "equivalent" as equivalent.
  - not_a_shill 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - nprateem 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - switch007 3y ago
        Hold up, you’re ok with treating her differently because you found her ugly?
        benterix 3y ago
        It's more and more difficult to detect sarcasm these days but in case you are serious yes, we all treat people differently based on their looks, and it happens especially in sexual relationships and is not limited to humans.
        sillysaurusx 3y ago
fHr 3y ago
I have arguments over this all the time when going on dates. Since the pandemic the topic astrology came up a lot more though, I don't know why. Now I just go with it and show fake interest, makes it way easier. Ofcourse the whole time I'm thinking about ending myself rather than hearing this bs but at least they don't go batshit crazy on me(hitting me sometimes even) and calling me stupid for not trusting it. Clear red flag though.
- cinntaile 3y ago
  Can't you add no astrology to your dating profile? That should filter them out. Assuming the process starts online.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    That probably depends on his goal in dating: does he want a long-term partner or some companionship for the evening? Adding "no astrology" to his profile may very well result in him getting almost no dates, depending on his demographic and location. Sounds like this craziness is really popular in some places among some circles.
- xiphias2 3y ago
  It seems like you don't even know what you want. If it's a red flag, you should just end the date fast. If it's not, have fun with astrology instead of just ,,faking it''. The cool thing is as it's all made up, you can show your creative side :) At the same time if you can think about ending yourself for something light and fun, you should go to psychologist to process why it's the case.
seer 3y ago
As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. Like the “flat earth model” is actually extremely useful if you don’t intend (can’t) travel significant distances - gives you a coordinate system, maps and ways to predict where you’re going to be tomorrow if you travel on foot/horse. I think astrology used to be a good foundation for people to think about personality types (psychology) in isolation and more importantly how they interact with one another. By slotting people into 12 “categories” you could start to theorise which personality type “jells well” or “vibes” with which. The time of birth can also correlate loosely with personality. Like the famous finding that successful atheletes usually have birthdays at the beginning of the year, because of practicalities of how our athletics programs are structured. Anyway, I don’t disparage people for talking about astrology, liking to ask people what do somebody “is like” if they were born at a different time, leads to some fun discussions.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  Yeah, in the end ask about your star sign is as consequential as asking which team is your favourite. It can be a fun conversation starter, but if you make your life out of that, then it gets ridiculous
  - noufalibrahim 3y ago
    It's, at best, a conversation starter. Hofstadter in his Metamagical Themas had a chapter on how the predictions are worded specifically to be vague and feel good so that any of them could apply to any one. Taken more seriously, they have serious social effects. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangala_Dosha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangala_Dosha I expect the interest in "new age" religions or quasi-religious practices to go up as traditional religions move out of societies. My experience is that there is a part of the human being that requires religion and spirituality and they will find outlets to satiate their needs.
    - Guthur 3y ago
onecommentman 3y ago
A few decades ago, when astrology was last really popular, I was in a high school class and a few kids knew that I could actually cast a full natal horoscope. So they asked me to guess their (Sun) sign. I stopped when I was ahead, but had gotten four out of four right on the first guess and had a legitimate (?) reason for each. Don’t know how my reputation changed as a result…I was way more pocket-protector nerd than goth/warlock (which wasn’t a thing yet). As far as archetypes go for human psychology, astrological signs themselves have a lot going for them: simple, vague, engaging, nice emojis, deep historical roots. Could be something going on in terms of seasonality, birth month, school entrance date and childhood development for Sun signs, but mostly natal astrology is a cute neutral way to get people to talk about themselves. Pretty certain the stars don’t impel much less compel but I’d prefer a frivolous discussion over what a Leo is really like over any given random political argument where no side has a clear enough understanding of the whole picture to justify their own rage.
- Hendrikto 3y ago
  > mostly natal astrology is a cute neutral way to get people to talk about themselves It‘s a way for people to excuse their shitty behavior, and take no responsibility for it. "Haha, I can‘t help it, I‘m an X." It‘s a way for people to harshly judge others, without knowing anything about them.
throwawaylinux 3y ago
Just when you thought you'd seen peak Hacker News...
furstenheim 3y ago
I blatantly lie. Then when they tell me what I should like, tell them it was a lie and say a different one, also fake.
polyamid23 3y ago
From time to time I mention the 13th "Ophiuchus" star sign to astrology inclined people. It is quite interesting how they react.
- thiht 3y ago
  How do they react?
  - polyamid23 3y ago
    They do not know about it (those I spoke with), so they are not "comfortable" in discussing it. Especially since it's existence changes the dates of all other signs, their sign is not their sign anymore. I do not push on them too hard though. Just eager to hear their thoughts on it.
mypastself 3y ago
If it were true, and your personality traits were truly defined by positions of constellations, why would that be racist? Or at least any more so than psychological examinations and diagnoses?
worklaptopacct 3y ago
It's lore like any other, and it's fun to research, discuss and share with others. No need to go nuclear over people playing silly, harmless games with each other.
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
I’m a 61-year-old software developer. It’s been interesting (and infuriating), experiencing some of the conclusions that younger techs have reached about me, due to my gray hair. I’m also a developer of Apple device software. That has resulted in even more abuse. There’s serious hate for Apple amongst techs. Human nature likes pigeonholing other people into simple “sort buckets,” and we have many ways to do that. It actually takes conscious effort, to avoid it.
- lrvick 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - rmbyrro 3y ago
    I dislike Apple as well, but judging people just because they work with their software stack is... inappropriate? May I ask how you make a living in modern society? Lots of people contribute to walled gardens to produce the food you eat. Heck, the constructor of your roof literally contributed to your walled garden... I don't think anyone has a choice, unless you go back 10,000 years and live like a hunter gatherer...
    - ilyt 3y ago
      > Lots of people contribute to walled gardens to produce the food you eat. Heck, the constructor of your roof literally contributed to your walled garden... I don't think you know what walled garden means in software context.
      - thatguymike 3y ago
        I don’t think you know what a metaphor means in a conversational context.
    - uoaei 3y ago
      I think you're simply not asking yourself hard enough questions. I'm making a pivot away from "lol nothing matters so it's everyone for themselves" now largely because my values are not aligned with how I've engaged with society so far. I reduce my burden on the environment by buying used rather than new whenever I can (for some reason no one wants to consider the upfront heavy burdens of manufacturing things like e-bikes and EVs when the used markets for both are so healthy). I try to avoid contributing to the workplace suffering of others and the normalization of antisocial, anticompetitive business strategies so I try not to encourage those practices by giving money to those who violate those (e.g. Amazon). I shop at overstock groceries (Grocery Outlet) and department stores (Ross, Marshalls) to circularize the economy that much more. Everyone has priorities, and especially as we emerge out of the pandemic and I observe the working and spending habits of those around me I see that many people value personal, individual conveniences often at the expense of dignity and comfort for others. I want to think I value those things for myself and others and so try to live in accordance with those values. Everyone must compromise but that doesn't excuse at all where exactly we end up drawing that line.
machina_ex_deus 3y ago
Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an intelligent discussion with GPT2 or with a talking parrot. I can tolerate conspiracy theories, or aliens, or whacky religions, but astrology is just so dumb. I can't see an intelligent person ever falling for it. Hell I would probably consider a flat earther with a tinfoil hat more intelligent.
- roenxi 3y ago
  Although broadly agreeing, it seems relevant that most people are irrational on most topics. I would expect belief in astrology to correlate negatively with beliefs that require systemic thinking but it is impolite to dismiss intelligent discussion with someone before testing them directly and making an effort to figure out what their strongest topics are.
- varjag 3y ago
  There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.
  - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
    I would argue that astrology is in principle testable and it should be able to make concrete predictions. Obviously, popular astrology uses such woolly terms that all of the predictions can be interpreted as accurate to the believer. However, the few times that anyone has tried to verify astrological predictions, it's turned out to be false. https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-30007-001 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-30007-001
    - varjag 3y ago
MassiveOwl 3y ago
I never reveal it at work, there are morons out there that have opinions like "I'm starsign x, and if you're y, then we won't get along". It's so frustrating
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  Typical Geminis
- data-ottawa 3y ago
  Recently my wife and I looked up our signs. I guess we aren’t compatible at all! Someone should have told us a decade ago and saved us from 10 years and counting of happiness. They’re kinda fun but I hope people aren’t making big decisions out of them.
Shrezzing 3y ago
I take it you're an Aries then?
ur-whale 3y ago
> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Very nice argument against the BS that is astrology. Thanks, will add it to my arsenal.
hereonout2 3y ago
I could imagine a much younger version of myself getting into an argument like this. Now days I just don't care, people like their own things and do stuff I disagree with or don't understand all the time. Live and let live, nod politely and try and steer the conversation to a topic of interest or even better find someone else to talk to. I like to think age has steadied me, but maybe I've just lost the will or become misanthropic.
- civilitty 3y ago
  I could imagine a much younger version of myself saying something so stupefyingly patronizing like this.
  - hereonout2 3y ago
    How will an older you look back on this response though?
kypro 3y ago
> I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. > I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. I get your point, and perhaps I'm miss reading your tone here, but I think you took this way too far. I 100% get your point – I'm autistic as hell and I appreciate your logical comparison to racism because I hadn't consider this perspective before, but I think this girl was probably just trying to be friendly? Intent is important. Someone can hold "racist" views implicitly while meaning no harm, but that's very different from a person who is racist and wishes harm based on someone's race. Calling someone "racist" is not nice and in this case seems far too strong a word given the context. Astrology might be silly, but it's limited in harm. It's similar to religion in that most people just think of it as a way to guide and improve their lives. In a world that's increasingly irreligious Astrology is obviously going to appeal to people with a less logical, evidence based outlook on life. My girlfriend is into Astrology. I mock her a little for it and try to explain to her why it's silly, but I think she feels like it gives her some level of control over things in her life that would otherwise feel random. But more importantly, she's not like me. She doesn't think about this stuff in depth or care if all of her views are logically consistent. I don't even think she denies what I'm saying when I point out how stupid Astrology is, I just don't think it matters to her like it does to me. A lot of people are like this. I guess I think it's fine to question Astrology and even mock it a little, but calling people racist and bigoted for believing in it is just cruel and unnecessary.
- data-ottawa 3y ago
  If you sit and listen to some friends doing a tarot reading or reading astrology the process itself drives meaningful introspection, and it helps people actively think about their recent behaviour and what they want. That’s a healthy thing to do and I can understand why people find it valuable. The actual content I think is full of self-affirming biases and wishful thinking, but it’s more of a backdrop. As long as someone isn’t reducing themself or people to their sign or whatever it’s mostly harmless, and without astrology I think there would be something mystical to fill the same void (crystals, “energy”, psychics, religion).
dghughes 3y ago
Just say you're Ophiuchus that really sets them off. It's a removed sign from the zodiac. If it's so accurate how can an entire sign be removed. Although I'm sure they'll have a ready-made excuse.
amelius 3y ago
> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. This is a good point, and also true for any system that may contain biases, e.g. deep learning systems. However ... generalization is also a key part of what makes us intelligent beings, so let's not assume it's all bad. For example, if someone is a heavy smoker then they are more likely to get lung cancer is a completely reasonable line of thinking.
VoodooJuJu 3y ago
Dude, lighten up. She was playing a game with you, probably flirting. And you didn't play the game very well. Mysticism is fun, aesthetic, and filled with more questions than answers. Play the game some time, you might enjoy it. I also can't believe you actually found a way to weasel racism into the conversation. It's all so tiresome.
- xwdv 3y ago
  Sorry, but I don’t see where it says he has to respond to a woman’s nonsense flirtatious mysticism by lowering his own standard for discourse down to her level. He does not have to tolerate her magical thinking. I think he drew an interesting correlation between racism and her astrological beliefs that she likely has never heard before, and perhaps will give her some much needed introspection. That is a far more meaningful outcome than whatever else their conversation about astrological signs could have had.
  - BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
    I agree with you, I think "just be yourself" or else get comfortable acting on the other hand, it's also important to 'go with the flow' sometimes, specially around things you don't consider too important; whichever those may be (I've noticed that what is important is even affected by my mood).
    - mettamage 3y ago
      I studied and believed astrology between the ages of 12 and 16. At 16, I found a few ways to strongly falsify it. The problem is that the readings always end up being somewhat true and people become enthusiastic about the readings. All I did was follow a particular book, but yea that was tough to falsify for me at that age. In any case, it depends on what you value. If you don't care that someone is into astrology, then go with the flow. If you deeply believe in science and it's one of your core values that people close to you believe in that as well then a short and polite conversation is all I see happening. I'm of the latter kind. I'd have never made such a strong comment though as it is my experience that people aren't really open to change their minds on this (having done readings on a few dozen people as a kid). So why waste the time?
flanked-evergl 3y ago
> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatically likely to have certain traits. If astrology was true, then ignoring astrology when interacting with some would tantamount to dehumanising them, because if it were true, that would determine who you are as an individual.
- civilitty 3y ago
  If astrology were true, that would be dehumanizing.
  - flanked-evergl 3y ago
    It is well established that certain genetic abnormalities result in severe cognitive deficiencies. You can analyse someone's genes, and without knowing anything more about the person than knowing they have three copies of chromosome 21, you can tell they have a severe mental deficiency. Is that dehumanizing? To me, that is just reality, and I think if you view reality as dehumanizing then the concept really is not that meaningful because then it is simply the default state. Similarly, if I were to believe in astrology, I don't think I could be convinced that it is any more dehumanizing than believing genetics is real.
vijucat 3y ago
I've always liked this one, "My sun sign is Xoltran". "There's no such sun sign!". "Hey, the others are all made up, too, so why not my own? ;-)"
nmilo 3y ago
There comes times that you need to put your own principles aside for the good of yourself and for the other person, and forget trying to be "correct" all the time. Life gets a lot better when you realize that you probably can't, and shouldn't, try to change people's minds.
- executesorder66 3y ago
  > shouldn't, try to change people's minds. Yeah the abolition of slavery was a mistake. We shouldn't have tried to change people's minds about that. We also should never have changed people's minds about smoking not being bad. Just let people believe what they want to believe. Live and let live. Fully agree with you.
  - alexb_ 3y ago
    What the hell are you talking about? Lecturing someone on racism because they asked about astrology is not the same as abolishing slavery.
    - executesorder66 3y ago
      I'm talking about whether you should or shouldn't try to change people's minds about things. A lot of people thought that slavery was okay. Do you think that others should have changed their mind about it? A lot of people think racism is okay. Do you think that others should change their mind about it? Astrology is just as stupid and discriminatory as racism. Being prejudice against people over things that they can't control (skin color, date of birth) and things that are just completely wrong, and made up, (all black people are bad, all Virgo's act this way, I could never date a Gemini's because blah blah)
  - nmilo 3y ago
    Slavery wasn't abolished by changing people's minds via rational debate. Did you forget we had to literally send people with guns to shoot and kill the people that held that belief. They only changed their beliefs after decades under new laws and culture. The research is out on changing people's beliefs, for most it usually causes them to dig their heels in and hate the other side even more. If you encounter a racist person or a Nazi in real life, you will not change their beliefs with rational debate, so don't even try. Just avoid them because they are unpleasant people. You will be happier if you stop fighting this futile moral crusade.
mayd 3y ago
I, for one, appreciate you candour, even though your story portrays you in a less than positive light, and this girl now probably tells everyone she meets that you are weird. Well done. A less punctilious man might have just smiled and made polite conversation.
a2tech 3y ago
I wonder if you ever think 'why don't I get a lot of dates'. If you do...this is why.
taylorius 3y ago
"I told her her beliefs were akin to racism." Oh I like that one. Inferring personality traits based on where someone was born - "Racism". Inferring personality traits based on when someone was born - "Astrology". "but she couldn't see the issue." What a surprise...
- mynameishere 3y ago
  Racism is inferring personality (and other) traits based upon genetics, not "where someone was born." I would argue that your genetics, unlike your star sign, is fairly meaningful.
  - WindyLakeReturn 3y ago
    This gets into the social construct of what makes a race and what qualifies as racism. For example, often discrimination based on ethnicity and not race still gets classified under racism even though it wasn't based on race. For a purely pedantic sense, it is ethnicism or some such word that doesn't seem to exist, not racism. Yet we generally recognize it as 'close enough' and group it together. Birth place discrimination can often be thrown in for the same reason, especially if there are racist beliefs concerning birth place that factor into the logic (assuming that anyone born in Asia must be Asian). Close enough to count if this were horseshoes.
shortrounddev2 3y ago
> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism !!SPOILERS!! There's an episode of The Orville where they encounter a relatively advanced planet with a government that classifies people based on astrological signs. People born under certain signs are better than others, and one astrological sign is considered to be so violent and dangerous that they lock them in concentration camps. Women intentionally induce labor early in order to prevent their kids from being born under the wrong sign, leading to a high infant mortality rate.
hasbot 3y ago
If you think astrology is dumb, how about witchcraft? I started dating a woman and after a few dates she told me she was a member of a Wicca. I never had much luck with the ladies; I shrugged it off and continued with the relationship.
carlosjobim 3y ago
I feel like printing this comment and nailing it to the wall, it has greatly helped me understand the hacker community and values in a way that I just couldn't put my finger on before.
yieldcrv 3y ago
You know if you want to have sex all you have to do is play along, learn what a moon and rising sign is and contribute that to the conversation This is literally the primary driver of people getting into this at this pace now Astrology proponents expect to be ridiculed by an analytical nerd. Literally all you have to so is not do that. People are catching on, you didnt and the article didnt but others are.
throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
Only a fool argues with a fool.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Ah! Right! This is totally the lesson that had not yet been learned prior to this interaction. It's wisdom I often forget about when politics comes up, but have no problem remembering when it's this kind of mysticism being discussed :)
MarcusE1W 3y ago
I recently had a discussion about astrology and made the point that it seems all without base. Then the discussion moved and we said maybe (no evidence here) the time of the year when your mother is pregnant could have an influence on you. Maybe the amount of sun she gets, the food she eats, the implications on her mood based on summer or winter weather and all the things she experiences that might be based on the time of the year when she is pregnant. I can't say that I think it's impossible that the baby is in some way influenced by that. Now, if you take the stars out of astronomy and just focus on certain characteristics that are attributed to you based on the time of year you are born, mayybe, just maybe the astrologers were onto something. Just for the completely wrong reason?
alexb_ 3y ago
A girl is curious about you and wants to talk about you, and you take it as an opportunity to argue? To show how "right" you are? Then you lecture her on how her interest in you is akin to racism? Maybe the person was just wanting to know more about you. It's incredible that you would take someone being interested in a minor thing as an opportunity to flex how right and correct you are. Let someone be incorrect, or laugh about minor things with you, or enjoy your company. Don't take situations like that to try and show everyone how much more logical you are - nobody is impressed.
flanked-evergl 3y ago
> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Did she say that people were of lesser moral worth, or did not deserve equal treatment under the law, or equal opportunity, or rights, based on their star sign? Did she suggest one should morally judge people based on their star signs and not on the content of their character? Nothing in your post suggests so, nor have I ever met someone who believes in astrology that does. If you think that holding the belief that the positions of stars impact our personalities is akin to racism, then I'm not certain why you actually think racism is wrong. If tomorrow we find out that we were wrong about the influence of hormones on our brains and mood that will not make the current medical consensus akin to racism, it would just make it wrong. If, however, someone believed someone should be morally judged because of hormones, that would make it akin to racism.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sanderjd 3y ago
la di da, just reading an interesting anecdote here ... > I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. needle scratch Seriously, no, this is deeply silly stuff, but no, it is not akin to racism.
JohnFen 3y ago
> I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. There's only one good answer to "what's your sign?" "Neon"
aslfjiasf 3y ago
Ha! Typical Scorpio thinking.
KingShabibo 3y ago
[flagged]
yadingus 3y ago
This is a fun proposition and I thought about this often, but in reality it's not really that fair to ask that question if they don't know you well, in the same way someone might fail to guess your exact age or nationality by just looking at you. That doesn't mean astrology is true, just that your question isn't as witty as you might think.

luc4sdreyer 3y ago

I've experienced similar things many times. Maybe in the future I should propose a $10 bet, where they get three guesses.

steve_adams_86 3y ago
Only a pisces would say that!
- 1659447091 3y ago
  No, pretty obviously a capricorn
  - mattgreenrocks 3y ago
    As a Capricorn, I definitely would!

whakim 3y ago

While I agree that astrology is complete nonsense, you're not likely to win many people over when you treat stereotyping (which you've described here) and racism as equivalent.

gedy 3y ago
> when you treat stereotyping (which you've described here) and racism as equivalent. But that's literally what people now call stereotyping: "that's racist"
- Thorrez 3y ago
  Some stereotyping is racist, but not all.
ycombinete 3y ago
Your parent said "akin to racism". You're not likely to win many people over, when you treat "akin" and "equivalent" as equivalent.
- not_a_shill 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nprateem 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - switch007 3y ago
      Hold up, you’re ok with treating her differently because you found her ugly?
      - benterix 3y ago
        It's more and more difficult to detect sarcasm these days but in case you are serious yes, we all treat people differently based on their looks, and it happens especially in sexual relationships and is not limited to humans.
        sillysaurusx 3y ago

fHr 3y ago

I have arguments over this all the time when going on dates. Since the pandemic the topic astrology came up a lot more though, I don't know why. Now I just go with it and show fake interest, makes it way easier. Ofcourse the whole time I'm thinking about ending myself rather than hearing this bs but at least they don't go batshit crazy on me(hitting me sometimes even) and calling me stupid for not trusting it. Clear red flag though.

cinntaile 3y ago
Can't you add no astrology to your dating profile? That should filter them out. Assuming the process starts online.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  That probably depends on his goal in dating: does he want a long-term partner or some companionship for the evening? Adding "no astrology" to his profile may very well result in him getting almost no dates, depending on his demographic and location. Sounds like this craziness is really popular in some places among some circles.
xiphias2 3y ago
It seems like you don't even know what you want. If it's a red flag, you should just end the date fast. If it's not, have fun with astrology instead of just ,,faking it''. The cool thing is as it's all made up, you can show your creative side :) At the same time if you can think about ending yourself for something light and fun, you should go to psychologist to process why it's the case.

seer 3y ago

As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. Like the “flat earth model” is actually extremely useful if you don’t intend (can’t) travel significant distances - gives you a coordinate system, maps and ways to predict where you’re going to be tomorrow if you travel on foot/horse. I think astrology used to be a good foundation for people to think about personality types (psychology) in isolation and more importantly how they interact with one another. By slotting people into 12 “categories” you could start to theorise which personality type “jells well” or “vibes” with which. The time of birth can also correlate loosely with personality. Like the famous finding that successful atheletes usually have birthdays at the beginning of the year, because of practicalities of how our athletics programs are structured. Anyway, I don’t disparage people for talking about astrology, liking to ask people what do somebody “is like” if they were born at a different time, leads to some fun discussions.

raverbashing 3y ago
Yeah, in the end ask about your star sign is as consequential as asking which team is your favourite. It can be a fun conversation starter, but if you make your life out of that, then it gets ridiculous
- noufalibrahim 3y ago
  It's, at best, a conversation starter. Hofstadter in his Metamagical Themas had a chapter on how the predictions are worded specifically to be vague and feel good so that any of them could apply to any one. Taken more seriously, they have serious social effects. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangala_Dosha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangala_Dosha I expect the interest in "new age" religions or quasi-religious practices to go up as traditional religions move out of societies. My experience is that there is a part of the human being that requires religion and spirituality and they will find outlets to satiate their needs.
  - Guthur 3y ago

onecommentman 3y ago

A few decades ago, when astrology was last really popular, I was in a high school class and a few kids knew that I could actually cast a full natal horoscope. So they asked me to guess their (Sun) sign. I stopped when I was ahead, but had gotten four out of four right on the first guess and had a legitimate (?) reason for each. Don’t know how my reputation changed as a result…I was way more pocket-protector nerd than goth/warlock (which wasn’t a thing yet). As far as archetypes go for human psychology, astrological signs themselves have a lot going for them: simple, vague, engaging, nice emojis, deep historical roots. Could be something going on in terms of seasonality, birth month, school entrance date and childhood development for Sun signs, but mostly natal astrology is a cute neutral way to get people to talk about themselves. Pretty certain the stars don’t impel much less compel but I’d prefer a frivolous discussion over what a Leo is really like over any given random political argument where no side has a clear enough understanding of the whole picture to justify their own rage.

Hendrikto 3y ago
> mostly natal astrology is a cute neutral way to get people to talk about themselves It‘s a way for people to excuse their shitty behavior, and take no responsibility for it. "Haha, I can‘t help it, I‘m an X." It‘s a way for people to harshly judge others, without knowing anything about them.

throwawaylinux 3y ago

Just when you thought you'd seen peak Hacker News...

furstenheim 3y ago

I blatantly lie. Then when they tell me what I should like, tell them it was a lie and say a different one, also fake.

polyamid23 3y ago

From time to time I mention the 13th "Ophiuchus" star sign to astrology inclined people. It is quite interesting how they react.

thiht 3y ago
How do they react?
- polyamid23 3y ago
  They do not know about it (those I spoke with), so they are not "comfortable" in discussing it. Especially since it's existence changes the dates of all other signs, their sign is not their sign anymore. I do not push on them too hard though. Just eager to hear their thoughts on it.

mypastself 3y ago

If it were true, and your personality traits were truly defined by positions of constellations, why would that be racist? Or at least any more so than psychological examinations and diagnoses?

worklaptopacct 3y ago

It's lore like any other, and it's fun to research, discuss and share with others. No need to go nuclear over people playing silly, harmless games with each other.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

I’m a 61-year-old software developer. It’s been interesting (and infuriating), experiencing some of the conclusions that younger techs have reached about me, due to my gray hair. I’m also a developer of Apple device software. That has resulted in even more abuse. There’s serious hate for Apple amongst techs. Human nature likes pigeonholing other people into simple “sort buckets,” and we have many ways to do that. It actually takes conscious effort, to avoid it.

lrvick 3y ago
[flagged]
- rmbyrro 3y ago
  I dislike Apple as well, but judging people just because they work with their software stack is... inappropriate? May I ask how you make a living in modern society? Lots of people contribute to walled gardens to produce the food you eat. Heck, the constructor of your roof literally contributed to your walled garden... I don't think anyone has a choice, unless you go back 10,000 years and live like a hunter gatherer...
  - ilyt 3y ago
    > Lots of people contribute to walled gardens to produce the food you eat. Heck, the constructor of your roof literally contributed to your walled garden... I don't think you know what walled garden means in software context.
    - thatguymike 3y ago
      I don’t think you know what a metaphor means in a conversational context.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    I think you're simply not asking yourself hard enough questions. I'm making a pivot away from "lol nothing matters so it's everyone for themselves" now largely because my values are not aligned with how I've engaged with society so far. I reduce my burden on the environment by buying used rather than new whenever I can (for some reason no one wants to consider the upfront heavy burdens of manufacturing things like e-bikes and EVs when the used markets for both are so healthy). I try to avoid contributing to the workplace suffering of others and the normalization of antisocial, anticompetitive business strategies so I try not to encourage those practices by giving money to those who violate those (e.g. Amazon). I shop at overstock groceries (Grocery Outlet) and department stores (Ross, Marshalls) to circularize the economy that much more. Everyone has priorities, and especially as we emerge out of the pandemic and I observe the working and spending habits of those around me I see that many people value personal, individual conveniences often at the expense of dignity and comfort for others. I want to think I value those things for myself and others and so try to live in accordance with those values. Everyone must compromise but that doesn't excuse at all where exactly we end up drawing that line.

machina_ex_deus 3y ago

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an intelligent discussion with GPT2 or with a talking parrot. I can tolerate conspiracy theories, or aliens, or whacky religions, but astrology is just so dumb. I can't see an intelligent person ever falling for it. Hell I would probably consider a flat earther with a tinfoil hat more intelligent.

roenxi 3y ago
Although broadly agreeing, it seems relevant that most people are irrational on most topics. I would expect belief in astrology to correlate negatively with beliefs that require systemic thinking but it is impolite to dismiss intelligent discussion with someone before testing them directly and making an effort to figure out what their strongest topics are.
varjag 3y ago
There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  I would argue that astrology is in principle testable and it should be able to make concrete predictions. Obviously, popular astrology uses such woolly terms that all of the predictions can be interpreted as accurate to the believer. However, the few times that anyone has tried to verify astrological predictions, it's turned out to be false. https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-30007-001 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-30007-001
  - varjag 3y ago

MassiveOwl 3y ago

I never reveal it at work, there are morons out there that have opinions like "I'm starsign x, and if you're y, then we won't get along". It's so frustrating

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
Typical Geminis
data-ottawa 3y ago
Recently my wife and I looked up our signs. I guess we aren’t compatible at all! Someone should have told us a decade ago and saved us from 10 years and counting of happiness. They’re kinda fun but I hope people aren’t making big decisions out of them.

Shrezzing 3y ago

I take it you're an Aries then?

ur-whale 3y ago

> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Very nice argument against the BS that is astrology. Thanks, will add it to my arsenal.

hereonout2 3y ago

I could imagine a much younger version of myself getting into an argument like this. Now days I just don't care, people like their own things and do stuff I disagree with or don't understand all the time. Live and let live, nod politely and try and steer the conversation to a topic of interest or even better find someone else to talk to. I like to think age has steadied me, but maybe I've just lost the will or become misanthropic.

civilitty 3y ago
I could imagine a much younger version of myself saying something so stupefyingly patronizing like this.
- hereonout2 3y ago
  How will an older you look back on this response though?

kypro 3y ago

> I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. > I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. I get your point, and perhaps I'm miss reading your tone here, but I think you took this way too far. I 100% get your point – I'm autistic as hell and I appreciate your logical comparison to racism because I hadn't consider this perspective before, but I think this girl was probably just trying to be friendly? Intent is important. Someone can hold "racist" views implicitly while meaning no harm, but that's very different from a person who is racist and wishes harm based on someone's race. Calling someone "racist" is not nice and in this case seems far too strong a word given the context. Astrology might be silly, but it's limited in harm. It's similar to religion in that most people just think of it as a way to guide and improve their lives. In a world that's increasingly irreligious Astrology is obviously going to appeal to people with a less logical, evidence based outlook on life. My girlfriend is into Astrology. I mock her a little for it and try to explain to her why it's silly, but I think she feels like it gives her some level of control over things in her life that would otherwise feel random. But more importantly, she's not like me. She doesn't think about this stuff in depth or care if all of her views are logically consistent. I don't even think she denies what I'm saying when I point out how stupid Astrology is, I just don't think it matters to her like it does to me. A lot of people are like this. I guess I think it's fine to question Astrology and even mock it a little, but calling people racist and bigoted for believing in it is just cruel and unnecessary.

data-ottawa 3y ago
If you sit and listen to some friends doing a tarot reading or reading astrology the process itself drives meaningful introspection, and it helps people actively think about their recent behaviour and what they want. That’s a healthy thing to do and I can understand why people find it valuable. The actual content I think is full of self-affirming biases and wishful thinking, but it’s more of a backdrop. As long as someone isn’t reducing themself or people to their sign or whatever it’s mostly harmless, and without astrology I think there would be something mystical to fill the same void (crystals, “energy”, psychics, religion).

dghughes 3y ago

Just say you're Ophiuchus that really sets them off. It's a removed sign from the zodiac. If it's so accurate how can an entire sign be removed. Although I'm sure they'll have a ready-made excuse.

amelius 3y ago

> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. This is a good point, and also true for any system that may contain biases, e.g. deep learning systems. However ... generalization is also a key part of what makes us intelligent beings, so let's not assume it's all bad. For example, if someone is a heavy smoker then they are more likely to get lung cancer is a completely reasonable line of thinking.

VoodooJuJu 3y ago

Dude, lighten up. She was playing a game with you, probably flirting. And you didn't play the game very well. Mysticism is fun, aesthetic, and filled with more questions than answers. Play the game some time, you might enjoy it. I also can't believe you actually found a way to weasel racism into the conversation. It's all so tiresome.

xwdv 3y ago
Sorry, but I don’t see where it says he has to respond to a woman’s nonsense flirtatious mysticism by lowering his own standard for discourse down to her level. He does not have to tolerate her magical thinking. I think he drew an interesting correlation between racism and her astrological beliefs that she likely has never heard before, and perhaps will give her some much needed introspection. That is a far more meaningful outcome than whatever else their conversation about astrological signs could have had.
- BSEdlMMldESB 3y ago
  I agree with you, I think "just be yourself" or else get comfortable acting on the other hand, it's also important to 'go with the flow' sometimes, specially around things you don't consider too important; whichever those may be (I've noticed that what is important is even affected by my mood).
  - mettamage 3y ago
    I studied and believed astrology between the ages of 12 and 16. At 16, I found a few ways to strongly falsify it. The problem is that the readings always end up being somewhat true and people become enthusiastic about the readings. All I did was follow a particular book, but yea that was tough to falsify for me at that age. In any case, it depends on what you value. If you don't care that someone is into astrology, then go with the flow. If you deeply believe in science and it's one of your core values that people close to you believe in that as well then a short and polite conversation is all I see happening. I'm of the latter kind. I'd have never made such a strong comment though as it is my experience that people aren't really open to change their minds on this (having done readings on a few dozen people as a kid). So why waste the time?

flanked-evergl 3y ago

> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatically likely to have certain traits. If astrology was true, then ignoring astrology when interacting with some would tantamount to dehumanising them, because if it were true, that would determine who you are as an individual.

civilitty 3y ago
If astrology were true, that would be dehumanizing.
- flanked-evergl 3y ago
  It is well established that certain genetic abnormalities result in severe cognitive deficiencies. You can analyse someone's genes, and without knowing anything more about the person than knowing they have three copies of chromosome 21, you can tell they have a severe mental deficiency. Is that dehumanizing? To me, that is just reality, and I think if you view reality as dehumanizing then the concept really is not that meaningful because then it is simply the default state. Similarly, if I were to believe in astrology, I don't think I could be convinced that it is any more dehumanizing than believing genetics is real.

vijucat 3y ago

I've always liked this one, "My sun sign is Xoltran". "There's no such sun sign!". "Hey, the others are all made up, too, so why not my own? ;-)"

nmilo 3y ago

There comes times that you need to put your own principles aside for the good of yourself and for the other person, and forget trying to be "correct" all the time. Life gets a lot better when you realize that you probably can't, and shouldn't, try to change people's minds.

executesorder66 3y ago
> shouldn't, try to change people's minds. Yeah the abolition of slavery was a mistake. We shouldn't have tried to change people's minds about that. We also should never have changed people's minds about smoking not being bad. Just let people believe what they want to believe. Live and let live. Fully agree with you.
- alexb_ 3y ago
  What the hell are you talking about? Lecturing someone on racism because they asked about astrology is not the same as abolishing slavery.
  - executesorder66 3y ago
    I'm talking about whether you should or shouldn't try to change people's minds about things. A lot of people thought that slavery was okay. Do you think that others should have changed their mind about it? A lot of people think racism is okay. Do you think that others should change their mind about it? Astrology is just as stupid and discriminatory as racism. Being prejudice against people over things that they can't control (skin color, date of birth) and things that are just completely wrong, and made up, (all black people are bad, all Virgo's act this way, I could never date a Gemini's because blah blah)
- nmilo 3y ago
  Slavery wasn't abolished by changing people's minds via rational debate. Did you forget we had to literally send people with guns to shoot and kill the people that held that belief. They only changed their beliefs after decades under new laws and culture. The research is out on changing people's beliefs, for most it usually causes them to dig their heels in and hate the other side even more. If you encounter a racist person or a Nazi in real life, you will not change their beliefs with rational debate, so don't even try. Just avoid them because they are unpleasant people. You will be happier if you stop fighting this futile moral crusade.

mayd 3y ago

I, for one, appreciate you candour, even though your story portrays you in a less than positive light, and this girl now probably tells everyone she meets that you are weird. Well done. A less punctilious man might have just smiled and made polite conversation.

a2tech 3y ago

I wonder if you ever think 'why don't I get a lot of dates'. If you do...this is why.

taylorius 3y ago

"I told her her beliefs were akin to racism." Oh I like that one. Inferring personality traits based on where someone was born - "Racism". Inferring personality traits based on when someone was born - "Astrology". "but she couldn't see the issue." What a surprise...

mynameishere 3y ago
Racism is inferring personality (and other) traits based upon genetics, not "where someone was born." I would argue that your genetics, unlike your star sign, is fairly meaningful.
- WindyLakeReturn 3y ago
  This gets into the social construct of what makes a race and what qualifies as racism. For example, often discrimination based on ethnicity and not race still gets classified under racism even though it wasn't based on race. For a purely pedantic sense, it is ethnicism or some such word that doesn't seem to exist, not racism. Yet we generally recognize it as 'close enough' and group it together. Birth place discrimination can often be thrown in for the same reason, especially if there are racist beliefs concerning birth place that factor into the logic (assuming that anyone born in Asia must be Asian). Close enough to count if this were horseshoes.

shortrounddev2 3y ago

> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism !!SPOILERS!! There's an episode of The Orville where they encounter a relatively advanced planet with a government that classifies people based on astrological signs. People born under certain signs are better than others, and one astrological sign is considered to be so violent and dangerous that they lock them in concentration camps. Women intentionally induce labor early in order to prevent their kids from being born under the wrong sign, leading to a high infant mortality rate.

hasbot 3y ago

If you think astrology is dumb, how about witchcraft? I started dating a woman and after a few dates she told me she was a member of a Wicca. I never had much luck with the ladies; I shrugged it off and continued with the relationship.

carlosjobim 3y ago

I feel like printing this comment and nailing it to the wall, it has greatly helped me understand the hacker community and values in a way that I just couldn't put my finger on before.

yieldcrv 3y ago

You know if you want to have sex all you have to do is play along, learn what a moon and rising sign is and contribute that to the conversation This is literally the primary driver of people getting into this at this pace now Astrology proponents expect to be ridiculed by an analytical nerd. Literally all you have to so is not do that. People are catching on, you didnt and the article didnt but others are.

throwawaaarrgh 3y ago

Only a fool argues with a fool.

sanderjd 3y ago
Ah! Right! This is totally the lesson that had not yet been learned prior to this interaction. It's wisdom I often forget about when politics comes up, but have no problem remembering when it's this kind of mysticism being discussed :)

MarcusE1W 3y ago

I recently had a discussion about astrology and made the point that it seems all without base. Then the discussion moved and we said maybe (no evidence here) the time of the year when your mother is pregnant could have an influence on you. Maybe the amount of sun she gets, the food she eats, the implications on her mood based on summer or winter weather and all the things she experiences that might be based on the time of the year when she is pregnant. I can't say that I think it's impossible that the baby is in some way influenced by that. Now, if you take the stars out of astronomy and just focus on certain characteristics that are attributed to you based on the time of year you are born, mayybe, just maybe the astrologers were onto something. Just for the completely wrong reason?

alexb_ 3y ago

A girl is curious about you and wants to talk about you, and you take it as an opportunity to argue? To show how "right" you are? Then you lecture her on how her interest in you is akin to racism? Maybe the person was just wanting to know more about you. It's incredible that you would take someone being interested in a minor thing as an opportunity to flex how right and correct you are. Let someone be incorrect, or laugh about minor things with you, or enjoy your company. Don't take situations like that to try and show everyone how much more logical you are - nobody is impressed.

flanked-evergl 3y ago

> I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Did she say that people were of lesser moral worth, or did not deserve equal treatment under the law, or equal opportunity, or rights, based on their star sign? Did she suggest one should morally judge people based on their star signs and not on the content of their character? Nothing in your post suggests so, nor have I ever met someone who believes in astrology that does. If you think that holding the belief that the positions of stars impact our personalities is akin to racism, then I'm not certain why you actually think racism is wrong. If tomorrow we find out that we were wrong about the influence of hormones on our brains and mood that will not make the current medical consensus akin to racism, it would just make it wrong. If, however, someone believed someone should be morally judged because of hormones, that would make it akin to racism.

deleted 3y ago

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sanderjd 3y ago

la di da, just reading an interesting anecdote here ... > I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. needle scratch Seriously, no, this is deeply silly stuff, but no, it is not akin to racism.

JohnFen 3y ago

> I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. There's only one good answer to "what's your sign?" "Neon"

aslfjiasf 3y ago

Ha! Typical Scorpio thinking.

KingShabibo 3y ago

[flagged]

yadingus 3y ago

This is a fun proposition and I thought about this often, but in reality it's not really that fair to ask that question if they don't know you well, in the same way someone might fail to guess your exact age or nationality by just looking at you. That doesn't mean astrology is true, just that your question isn't as witty as you might think.