7 ms·

Meta stops ordering new parts for Quest Pro

89 points by miiiiiike 3y ago

CBarkleyU 3y ago
I find myself having thoughts that I usually look very down on: What a waste X is because we could've done Y instead (think space exploration vs fixing famine type arguments). But honestly, what a huge waste of talent, including Carmack's, VR at Meta was. It's been over a decade, with three out of five the FAANG letters trying their luck with VR/AR and honestly I still havent seen a use case that would justify pumping in billions in the tech.
- seydor 3y ago
  quest 2 is the most interesting gadget i got the past decade. honestly space rockets are ok at current tech , but too much work just to see the blue planet from above, everything else looks pretty much the same as a clear night sky
  - maskedinvader 3y ago
    I agree (for quest 2 being the most interesting gadget in this space), quest 2 sold 10s of millions of devices and arguably came closest to making VR mainstream although they have much more ground to cover. Would be interesting to see the sales figures for their upcoming quest 3 , if it can sell as much or more units than quest 2 , I think there is a chance all this investment would be worth it. Ofcourse a cheaper consumer apple vision headset could easily come in and eat metas lunch. Edit: copies-> devices
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      I think Meta is still taking a loss on Quest device sales. So even if the sell a bunch of Q3s it might not be profitable for them (though I, hoping otherwise because I like the product and want to see it keep developing). The trick for Quest is to someday make meta money via a healthy market. I’m not really helpful here: I buy the hardware but only use a couple of apps (FirXR and BestSaber), I use them a lot, but I haven’t found anything else that I really want to buy into yet (I’ve bought other apps but they just sit unused). Whatever loss they are taking on hardware for me they aren’t making back. (But At least FitXR is a subscription now)
  - detourdog 3y ago
    I feel the same. Refocusing resources from space to earth seems like the magnanimous thing to be doing with extra billions. Anything off earth that needs exploring can be dome remotely.
- yamazakiwi 3y ago
  Thank god for that, VR is one of the only spaces people are having fun developing in. Once it goes full corporate it will be just like everything else in software.
- jrm4 3y ago
  I have a Quest 2 and...I'm just glad I got it from my aunt for free who didn't think much of it. The games that let you play Matrix shooting are good and...that's literally just about it. It feels like there should be better applications for it, and the reason there isn't is because the FAANGs are somehow sucking the fun out. I mean, keep it real -- the fact that the biggest public push we saw on VR was for people doing labor in a fake office is literally beyond hilarious; it's something you wouldn't write for an SNL skit because it's so on the nose and not funny enough.
  - jdshaffer 3y ago
    Very similar experience here. I have a Quest 2, handed down by my mother who bought it and never used it. I initially used it to run three screens via Immersed, but after a month or two, I only turn it on to check for updates. shrug
    - jrm4 3y ago
      I even went ahead and got sidequest going. It's a weirdly stale place and I can't figure out why; I say this as somewhat of an old-timer who remembers like "freeware" and "shareware" games. There was always something interesting there, but not here?
      - jdshaffer 3y ago
        I kinda enjoy the SideQuest version of Minecraft, but I cannot remember all the controller buttons.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
rwc 3y ago
Two possibilities, both can be true: 1. It's recognition that in a match up of "Pro v. Pro" products, Apple Vision Pro trounces Quest Pro and it's not feasible to make that gap up at this point; and 2. If Apple is going to mainstream the AR/VR market, it's not bad to position as the de facto low-cost alternative (see also Android/iPhone).
- seydor 3y ago
  Why would FB give up to an unreleased, unproven product? Apple goes for their ecosystem anyway. It s more likely there is a shortage of cheap components and they are focusing on what's most likely to sell
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Well the existing Quest Pro wasn’t exactly setting the sales charts on fire. The Quest 2 is doing great (as VR sales go). Does anyone know how well the Pro did? I imagine very poorly.
  - nomel 3y ago
    The Quest Pro uses the same chipset as Quest 2, with better cooling, allowing a bit better performance, but also has higher resolution than the 2, requiring more performance. There's not a significant difference between Quest Pro and Quest 2 performance. Quest 3 has a next gen chipset that is rumored to outperform the Quest 2/Pro significantly. These are primarily standalone devices, and graphics quality is important. The graphics quality is fairly abysmal for the vast majority of games available right now. I have a Quest 2 and Quest Pro.
- bagels 3y ago
  Or, they have come to the realization that there is no real future market for "pro" VR
  - dagmx 3y ago
    Or, that they cannot deliver the required product to make Pro VR a thing without burning billions more in capital. Apple controls the full stack. Processor, operating system, optical system and user facing software. Meta doesn’t really control much. They’re bound by Qualcomm so can’t optimize the firmware and signal handling, wasting CPU cycles on things that Apple can offload to custom silicon. They’re bound by Android which doesn’t have a progressive app system like Apple does. So apps are bespoke at the moment or run in a window with hacks. You can’t really do a hybrid app. They don’t have the ecosystem of apps that keep a user in the headset once the game session is over. So even though Apple is newer to the field, they can leapfrog metas capabilities for a pro device. The other aspect is that this market segment has fewer cost considerations. So they’re fighting an uphill battle for a segment that doesn’t care about the only thing they really win on: cost.
axg11 3y ago
This is a sensible strategy. Apple finally revealed their cards after 5+ years of rumours surrounding the Apple Vision Pro. Meta doesn't have the brand strength to launch a true high-end XR headset that can compete with the Vision Pro. Instead, they're trying to capture the lower end of the market.
- NBJack 3y ago
  Eh, I may eat my words later, but unless they are hiding some really big features somewhere, I don't think there's much to worry about with the Vision Pro. It is stylish and neat, but it seems to be shockingly limited both in VR and AR. If anything it seems like just an accessory for an iPhone or a Mac. Apple definitely has brand strength here, and I think Meta is even counting on it, but the utility of their device is underwhelming.
BigglesB 3y ago
I’m still pretty convinced that the only compelling use case for VR in the short-to-medium term is gaming despite both Apple & Meta apparently trying their hardest to pretend otherwise! Having said that, perhaps this move indicates that Meta are finally acknowledging that’s where they should have been focusing their efforts all along?
- NBJack 3y ago
  If there is one, single redeeming really cool feature of the Quest Pro (possibly the 2 as well, I haven't tried this), it's using your controller "upside down" as a virtual dry erase marker in Workrooms. I just wished that was available in other apps too.
- willsmith72 3y ago
  i still want use-anywhere sunglasses that plug into my laptop and give me monitors at an ergonomic height to use in libraries/cafes/parks. Like sightful without the weird computer
  - pzo 3y ago
    Xreal come close but for this use case not ready yet but if they ever release v2 with 4k resolution per eye + programmatically dimmable shades + better software then that would be better then vision pro or oculus for this use case
  - mellosouls 3y ago
    Those are already available from several brands (XReal the most well-known at the moment), though probably still in alpha mode as regards what people will actually buy and feel happy with.
    - cma 3y ago
      I think all so far are pentile so text is uncomfortable to read at their resolution. It is mostly ok for games and movies.
- 3y ago
zmmmmm 3y ago
This isn't correct as far as I understand. The only part based on actual information is they aren't ordering new parts. They are still producing new headsets, and continuing to sell those based on the existing stock of parts. We don't know what stock they have, it's quite possible that given the reduced rate of sales after Quest 3 is released they fully expect to be able to satisfy production requirements for the full lifetime of the device. Which may actually be an indication they are pulling forward a successor as much as that they are stopping further development. The "stops development of Quest Pro 2" is not new information, it is based on information from months ago that said they had decided to "skip" the Quest Pro's immediate successor in favor of focusing on the one that would come after it. To cap it all off, Andrew Bosworth directly contradicted this information today.
- dang 3y ago
  Ok, we've changed the title above to say that. Thanks!
  - zmmmmm 3y ago
    thank you! Much less click baity but far more informative / accurate.
Multiplayer 3y ago
I have a Quest Pro, after having had many of the predecessors - Vive, etc. I think that A/R needs to succeed before VR can really take off. And I think AR is going to really succeed. By VR I mean being totally cutoff from the rest of the world into this new world. It's exhausting in a way and feels like you are at a disadvantage if other people are around. The Pro has some limited AR and it's actually really exciting. Being in both worlds at the same time feels really really interesting. Apple is so far ahead, conceptually, that it makes sense to me for Meta/quest to recalibrate here.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  I really hope not. I get AR might work for some situation p, but the Quest is really good for I’m erosive situations where you just want slice some blocks apart with light sabers according to a nice song. Beat Saber is still the Quest’s killer app. How would AR improve on that experience? I don’t see much point to the quest pro and eagerly await the quest 3.
- jayd16 3y ago
  > Apple is so far ahead, conceptually I'm curious what you mean by this.
  - jsemrau 3y ago
    I suppose Apple's product is not a VR product but "Spatial Computing" Quote "Vision Pro, on the other hand, is primarily an AR device that just happens to have a few VR features" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/hands-on-with-apple-vision-pro-this-is-not-a-vr-headset/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/hands-on-with-apple-...
    - jayd16 3y ago
      In the same way "retina display" is not fundamentally unique, the Quest line is just as capable of "spatial computing." I'll argue that the one major difference in Apple's approach is they're going with multi-app support out of the gate. It positions the device as a low friction compute device instead of an engrossing entertainment device. ...but that's just software and I think it's within Meta's reach. It'll be interesting to see when Meta decides to make the pivot themselves and how much of Apple's custom stack will need to be replicated and how far ahead they actually are.
brutus1213 3y ago
I had an occulus rift back in the day. Collecting dust and obsolete now. I've experimented with HoloLens 2 and found the dev env to be crap. Likely going to grab a quest 3 when it comes out. Anyone hacking software for it give their opinion for how the tooling is? On the rift, it felt the tooling was unity or unreal, which sucked for me. I'd rather write python or c++ code, but something not too low level (OpenGL, Vulkan seem too low level) I don't want to work at shader level but at a level where I can position and compose meshes into objects. Does that exist yet? Or is it fundamentally too hard to be expressed without high level tools like Unity?
- poisonarena 3y ago
  > python or c++ code Yes. You can use Godot, I have played some great games on the Quest 2 made in Godot. GDScript is very similar to python, and there is ways to work with cpp as well.
  - brutus1213 3y ago
    Thank you! I didn't realize this can do 3D objects as well. Will check it out.

89 points by miiiiiike 3y ago

I find myself having thoughts that I usually look very down on: What a waste X is because we could've done Y instead (think space exploration vs fixing famine type arguments). But honestly, what a huge waste of talent, including Carmack's, VR at Meta was. It's been over a decade, with three out of five the FAANG letters trying their luck with VR/AR and honestly I still havent seen a use case that would justify pumping in billions in the tech.

seydor 3y ago
quest 2 is the most interesting gadget i got the past decade. honestly space rockets are ok at current tech , but too much work just to see the blue planet from above, everything else looks pretty much the same as a clear night sky
- maskedinvader 3y ago
  I agree (for quest 2 being the most interesting gadget in this space), quest 2 sold 10s of millions of devices and arguably came closest to making VR mainstream although they have much more ground to cover. Would be interesting to see the sales figures for their upcoming quest 3 , if it can sell as much or more units than quest 2 , I think there is a chance all this investment would be worth it. Ofcourse a cheaper consumer apple vision headset could easily come in and eat metas lunch. Edit: copies-> devices
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I think Meta is still taking a loss on Quest device sales. So even if the sell a bunch of Q3s it might not be profitable for them (though I, hoping otherwise because I like the product and want to see it keep developing). The trick for Quest is to someday make meta money via a healthy market. I’m not really helpful here: I buy the hardware but only use a couple of apps (FirXR and BestSaber), I use them a lot, but I haven’t found anything else that I really want to buy into yet (I’ve bought other apps but they just sit unused). Whatever loss they are taking on hardware for me they aren’t making back. (But At least FitXR is a subscription now)
- detourdog 3y ago
  I feel the same. Refocusing resources from space to earth seems like the magnanimous thing to be doing with extra billions. Anything off earth that needs exploring can be dome remotely.
yamazakiwi 3y ago
Thank god for that, VR is one of the only spaces people are having fun developing in. Once it goes full corporate it will be just like everything else in software.
jrm4 3y ago
I have a Quest 2 and...I'm just glad I got it from my aunt for free who didn't think much of it. The games that let you play Matrix shooting are good and...that's literally just about it. It feels like there should be better applications for it, and the reason there isn't is because the FAANGs are somehow sucking the fun out. I mean, keep it real -- the fact that the biggest public push we saw on VR was for people doing labor in a fake office is literally beyond hilarious; it's something you wouldn't write for an SNL skit because it's so on the nose and not funny enough.
- jdshaffer 3y ago
  Very similar experience here. I have a Quest 2, handed down by my mother who bought it and never used it. I initially used it to run three screens via Immersed, but after a month or two, I only turn it on to check for updates. shrug
  - jrm4 3y ago
    I even went ahead and got sidequest going. It's a weirdly stale place and I can't figure out why; I say this as somewhat of an old-timer who remembers like "freeware" and "shareware" games. There was always something interesting there, but not here?
    - jdshaffer 3y ago
      I kinda enjoy the SideQuest version of Minecraft, but I cannot remember all the controller buttons.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

rwc 3y ago

Two possibilities, both can be true: 1. It's recognition that in a match up of "Pro v. Pro" products, Apple Vision Pro trounces Quest Pro and it's not feasible to make that gap up at this point; and 2. If Apple is going to mainstream the AR/VR market, it's not bad to position as the de facto low-cost alternative (see also Android/iPhone).

seydor 3y ago
Why would FB give up to an unreleased, unproven product? Apple goes for their ecosystem anyway. It s more likely there is a shortage of cheap components and they are focusing on what's most likely to sell
- MBCook 3y ago
  Well the existing Quest Pro wasn’t exactly setting the sales charts on fire. The Quest 2 is doing great (as VR sales go). Does anyone know how well the Pro did? I imagine very poorly.
- nomel 3y ago
  The Quest Pro uses the same chipset as Quest 2, with better cooling, allowing a bit better performance, but also has higher resolution than the 2, requiring more performance. There's not a significant difference between Quest Pro and Quest 2 performance. Quest 3 has a next gen chipset that is rumored to outperform the Quest 2/Pro significantly. These are primarily standalone devices, and graphics quality is important. The graphics quality is fairly abysmal for the vast majority of games available right now. I have a Quest 2 and Quest Pro.
bagels 3y ago
Or, they have come to the realization that there is no real future market for "pro" VR
- dagmx 3y ago
  Or, that they cannot deliver the required product to make Pro VR a thing without burning billions more in capital. Apple controls the full stack. Processor, operating system, optical system and user facing software. Meta doesn’t really control much. They’re bound by Qualcomm so can’t optimize the firmware and signal handling, wasting CPU cycles on things that Apple can offload to custom silicon. They’re bound by Android which doesn’t have a progressive app system like Apple does. So apps are bespoke at the moment or run in a window with hacks. You can’t really do a hybrid app. They don’t have the ecosystem of apps that keep a user in the headset once the game session is over. So even though Apple is newer to the field, they can leapfrog metas capabilities for a pro device. The other aspect is that this market segment has fewer cost considerations. So they’re fighting an uphill battle for a segment that doesn’t care about the only thing they really win on: cost.

axg11 3y ago

This is a sensible strategy. Apple finally revealed their cards after 5+ years of rumours surrounding the Apple Vision Pro. Meta doesn't have the brand strength to launch a true high-end XR headset that can compete with the Vision Pro. Instead, they're trying to capture the lower end of the market.

NBJack 3y ago
Eh, I may eat my words later, but unless they are hiding some really big features somewhere, I don't think there's much to worry about with the Vision Pro. It is stylish and neat, but it seems to be shockingly limited both in VR and AR. If anything it seems like just an accessory for an iPhone or a Mac. Apple definitely has brand strength here, and I think Meta is even counting on it, but the utility of their device is underwhelming.

BigglesB 3y ago

I’m still pretty convinced that the only compelling use case for VR in the short-to-medium term is gaming despite both Apple & Meta apparently trying their hardest to pretend otherwise! Having said that, perhaps this move indicates that Meta are finally acknowledging that’s where they should have been focusing their efforts all along?

NBJack 3y ago
If there is one, single redeeming really cool feature of the Quest Pro (possibly the 2 as well, I haven't tried this), it's using your controller "upside down" as a virtual dry erase marker in Workrooms. I just wished that was available in other apps too.
willsmith72 3y ago
i still want use-anywhere sunglasses that plug into my laptop and give me monitors at an ergonomic height to use in libraries/cafes/parks. Like sightful without the weird computer
- pzo 3y ago
  Xreal come close but for this use case not ready yet but if they ever release v2 with 4k resolution per eye + programmatically dimmable shades + better software then that would be better then vision pro or oculus for this use case
- mellosouls 3y ago
  Those are already available from several brands (XReal the most well-known at the moment), though probably still in alpha mode as regards what people will actually buy and feel happy with.
  - cma 3y ago
    I think all so far are pentile so text is uncomfortable to read at their resolution. It is mostly ok for games and movies.
3y ago

zmmmmm 3y ago

This isn't correct as far as I understand. The only part based on actual information is they aren't ordering new parts. They are still producing new headsets, and continuing to sell those based on the existing stock of parts. We don't know what stock they have, it's quite possible that given the reduced rate of sales after Quest 3 is released they fully expect to be able to satisfy production requirements for the full lifetime of the device. Which may actually be an indication they are pulling forward a successor as much as that they are stopping further development. The "stops development of Quest Pro 2" is not new information, it is based on information from months ago that said they had decided to "skip" the Quest Pro's immediate successor in favor of focusing on the one that would come after it. To cap it all off, Andrew Bosworth directly contradicted this information today.

dang 3y ago
Ok, we've changed the title above to say that. Thanks!
- zmmmmm 3y ago
  thank you! Much less click baity but far more informative / accurate.

Multiplayer 3y ago

I have a Quest Pro, after having had many of the predecessors - Vive, etc. I think that A/R needs to succeed before VR can really take off. And I think AR is going to really succeed. By VR I mean being totally cutoff from the rest of the world into this new world. It's exhausting in a way and feels like you are at a disadvantage if other people are around. The Pro has some limited AR and it's actually really exciting. Being in both worlds at the same time feels really really interesting. Apple is so far ahead, conceptually, that it makes sense to me for Meta/quest to recalibrate here.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
I really hope not. I get AR might work for some situation p, but the Quest is really good for I’m erosive situations where you just want slice some blocks apart with light sabers according to a nice song. Beat Saber is still the Quest’s killer app. How would AR improve on that experience? I don’t see much point to the quest pro and eagerly await the quest 3.
jayd16 3y ago
> Apple is so far ahead, conceptually I'm curious what you mean by this.
- jsemrau 3y ago
  I suppose Apple's product is not a VR product but "Spatial Computing" Quote "Vision Pro, on the other hand, is primarily an AR device that just happens to have a few VR features" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/hands-on-with-apple-vision-pro-this-is-not-a-vr-headset/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/hands-on-with-apple-...
  - jayd16 3y ago
    In the same way "retina display" is not fundamentally unique, the Quest line is just as capable of "spatial computing." I'll argue that the one major difference in Apple's approach is they're going with multi-app support out of the gate. It positions the device as a low friction compute device instead of an engrossing entertainment device. ...but that's just software and I think it's within Meta's reach. It'll be interesting to see when Meta decides to make the pivot themselves and how much of Apple's custom stack will need to be replicated and how far ahead they actually are.

brutus1213 3y ago

I had an occulus rift back in the day. Collecting dust and obsolete now. I've experimented with HoloLens 2 and found the dev env to be crap. Likely going to grab a quest 3 when it comes out. Anyone hacking software for it give their opinion for how the tooling is? On the rift, it felt the tooling was unity or unreal, which sucked for me. I'd rather write python or c++ code, but something not too low level (OpenGL, Vulkan seem too low level) I don't want to work at shader level but at a level where I can position and compose meshes into objects. Does that exist yet? Or is it fundamentally too hard to be expressed without high level tools like Unity?

poisonarena 3y ago
> python or c++ code Yes. You can use Godot, I have played some great games on the Quest 2 made in Godot. GDScript is very similar to python, and there is ways to work with cpp as well.
- brutus1213 3y ago
  Thank you! I didn't realize this can do 3D objects as well. Will check it out.