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The Perfect Laptop

• TehShrike 3y ago
  How could anyone afford the engineering and manufacturing to build such a perfect laptop and sell it for <2000$?
• TheRealPomax 3y ago
  I'd add "expandable storage" (and "can be fixed") because even if it's an Apple-esque SoC (which we're clearly going to be seeing more of in the future by other brands), there is no reason to not offer one or ideally two m.2 slots that you can just stick more, "slower", storage in.
  • qwytw 3y ago
    > there is no reason There is a very good reason called "profit margin"... Good luck charging $500 for an extra 768 GB of storage if there is an m2 slot.
    • t3rabytes 3y ago
      I'd venture to guess that the take rate on custom configs from any manufacturer is quite low. Most consumers are going to go to Best Buy, Apple Store, et al and buy what config is available today, not wait to order some custom model.
      • qwytw 3y ago
        I'm pretty sure 512/1024 GB or 16 GB MBAs are generally available in stores without a ordering a custom model. And wouldn't most people order online nowadays?
    • TheRealPomax 3y ago
      Then it's a good thing no one charges that. I'm all for calling out Apple for bullshit, but their "768 GB more" model is a $200 upsell, not $500. And yes: it's a huge leap from $200 to $500.
      • goosedragons 3y ago
        Depends on the model. The MBAs and Mac Mini ship with 256GB by default and getting 1TB (768GB more) is an extra $400 USD. The MBPs and Studio/Pro start at 512GB so 1TB is "only" $200.
        • TheRealPomax 3y ago
          a mac mini is not a laptop.
          • goosedragons 3y ago
            A MBA (MacBook Air) is?
      • qwytw 3y ago
        In Europe MBA M2 upgrade to 1 TB is 460 euros which is is about $520, in US it's $400 + taxes.
• fsflover 3y ago
  I believe this laptop should also be in the list: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14 https://puri.sm/products/librem-14
  • qwytw 3y ago
    The screen seem to be low res and the aspect ratio is awful..
    • 9g3890fj2 3y ago
      Created an account just to comment - what is awful about 16:9, or "low res" about 1920x1080, for a laptop?
      • fifafu 3y ago
        you have probably never used a high res display on a laptop, it makes a huge difference ;-) Macbook Pros have had high res displays since 2012 (2880x1800 for the 15" back then) The current 14" Macbook Pro comes with 3024x1964. Some other laptops go even higher.
      • naspex 3y ago
        You inspired me to do the same. It's my first comment here: don't buy any puri.sm products. Or better say, think thrice before doing so. I used to own Librem 15 v4 which I bought in April 2020. Everything was bad. Just barely usable as a laptop. In January 2022 I spilled a water on the keyboard and some keys got stuck, so it kept on typing some letters sporadically. Tried to replace keyboard –> 150$ + delivery because it's the whole top panel to replace. No. OK, disconnected the keyboard and bought a compact Lenovo keyboard (also appeared to be a trashy thing). Half a year later the battery died. No chance to replace, out-of-stock, not even on chinese eshops. Also, I preordered Librem 5 all the way back in 2019. Decided to cancel the order a year ago – still waiting for my money to come back. Puri.sm gave me an impression of a scam copmany, unfortunately.
        • fsflover 3y ago
• bdcravens 3y ago
  I'm not sure that things have changed much, but this article is from 2022.
• rcmjr 3y ago
  If framework made a surface style device, that would be the perfect laptop for me.
  • vxNsr 3y ago
    I have a surface book (the original) that I inherited from pilot program at work. I love the idea of it, but practically, it just doesn’t work, I rarely if ever used it as a tablet, and when I did it wasn’t a very good tablet because the OS still doesn’t support that input method very well. As a laptop a lot of compromises were made to support that form factor and if just wasn’t worth it.
• scrlk 3y ago
  Unconventional choice: Panasonic Let's Note. Sadly JDM exclusive and has soldered RAM, but the latest models come with a 3:2 display, decent I/O (e.g. RJ45, full sized SD card reader, even VGA (!)), magnesium alloy chassis and a removable battery in a sub 1.1 kg package. Can't speak for the quality of the trackpad or keyboard though. https://panasonic.jp/cns/pc/ https://panasonic.jp/cns/pc/
  • jbverschoor 3y ago
    Back in the 90s and 00s, Panasonic had some really great hardware designs
    • aidenn0 3y ago
      Right around the turn of the century, the Japanese brands were all great designs. I haven't seen one for sale in the US in a long time though.
  • SamReidHughes 3y ago
    The trackpads are great (assuming new models are similar to past models), and the keyboards are IMO very good, but watch out for the squashed key dimensions on the SR and QR, and the Japanese layout.
    • scrlk 3y ago
      The 12.x" models occasionally make it in to other APAC markets with US ANSI keyboards: https://ap.connect.panasonic.com/sg/en/products/toughbook/toughbook-sv1 https://ap.connect.panasonic.com/sg/en/products/toughbook/to... Shame that they are not more widely available.
      • SamReidHughes 3y ago
        I didn't know they were still doing it! But it's disappointing that it doesn't have the optical drive. But I see you can buy the English keyboard on eBay.
  • 3y ago
• twic 3y ago
  > the body of a 12" laptop I've always owned 15" laptops, and i've never had any trouble fitting them in bags, even in a sleeve. I understand why people might want 7" or 10" netbooks, but a 12" machine just seems like a waste of space to me. I understand that most people feel very differently, though! > webcam that doesn’t make it look like your laptop (or you) are a potato during a videoconference And also doesn't look up your nose - my XPS 15 has the camera underneath the monitor, and it's terrible. > a great keyboard, look to the 2008-11 era ThinkPads for inspiration Keyboards are one of those things where tastes vary so much. I dislike every ThinkPad keyboard i've tried. Maybe we need interchangeable keyboards, with various styles available? > a useful number of ports Interested to see that ethernet doesn't make the cut. I definitely appreciate having that without having to bedongle the machine. How about adding: - Ability to charge from USB-PD Or is that a given these days?
  • joe5150 3y ago
    A high-quality wifi card and software is more valuable to me than ethernet ports, which are so bulky that I don't especially care if they come built in. The Framework approach here is ideal.
  • michaelteter 3y ago
    I downsized from a 15" MBP to a 13" M1 Air, and I haven't felt much pain from the smaller screen. My approach to IDE-driven development is about the same on both. The big difference is solo laptop vs laptop+external monitor(s). As someone who travels frequently, the M1 Air has been simply amazing. It's so small and sturdy, and fairly light compared to the bigger/bulkier/heavier 15 I had before... and I'm at far less risk of breaking the screen while it's in my bag. The bigger machines have a much greater surface area which the contents of the backpack can put pressure against. So the larger screen laptops are more susceptible to being pressed too hard near the middle of their screens and breaking. I wish there were some ultra-rigid screen backs which would eliminate that concern. I don't need something as serious as a Panasonic Toughbook, but something with some arched curved ridges to add strength would be nice.
    • zadjii 3y ago
• jbverschoor 3y ago
  So basically a MacBook with a folding or rollable screen
  • darthrupert 3y ago
    And without being (practically) forced to use MacOS.
• alchemist1e9 3y ago
  Anyone put Linux on a Lenovo Slim Pro 7 and have any opinions? https://www.pcworld.com/article/1797659/lenovo-slim-pro-7-review.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/1797659/lenovo-slim-pro-7-re...
  • alexgaribay 3y ago
    I have the older version with the 6900HS but it’s more or less the same. I’ve run pop_os as well as fedora on it. Everything works great but you’ll have to compile the wifi driver https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89 https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89.
    • alchemist1e9 3y ago
      Thank you! Was hoping to learn people are doing it. I’m mainly interested in it having the Nvidia RTX 3050 6GB as mobile GPU for hw encoding and decoding and some CUDA. Have you run into any problems with their fancy power modes or mixing onboard AMD graphics and the NVIDIA card?
      • alexgaribay 3y ago
        Surprisingly it has been smooth. Power modes work as you would expect even across OSes. I always run the graphics mode in hybrid mode to I’m using the integrated chip 90% of the time until something really needs the 3050. In Gnome, you can explicitly launch an application using the dGPU or you can set the environment variables on the application shortcut to always use the dGPU.
        • alchemist1e9 3y ago
          That’s impressive. Perhaps AMD pushed good power features into the kernel. Great news. Hopefully the new one will work likewise.
• WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
  Two aspects in which Apple's newest Macbook Airs fit at least my own "peak laptop" definition are: 1) no fans whatsoever 2) no coil whine when I plug my headphones in and stress the CPU The keyboard is exactly the right size and the right font for me, but I'll concede that muscle memory is an individual thing. I've owned Apple's laptops and keyboards made in 2005, 2007, 2010, 2015, 2019, and 2022, and they are very hell-bent on being consistent about key size and placement, I should give it to them. I'd like a Linux laptop that would beat this. XPS13 is a close contender because that 3840x2400 screen is the right kind of ratio and super crisp, but man, that fan noise and the coil whine are just killing the mood. Maybe Thinkpad X13s, but Linux support and its screen are both very meh at this point.
  • ramesh31 3y ago
    >I'd like a Linux laptop that would beat this. Por que no los dos? Asahi is running on M2 now: https://asahilinux.org/2022/07/july-2022-release/ https://asahilinux.org/2022/07/july-2022-release/
    • WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
      There is a difference between “it runs somehow” and “it uses the potential of my hardware to 100%”. Sorry, I’m not paying mad bucks for something that’s “yes, but”.
  • bombela 3y ago
    Sometimes I find the coil whine useful to detect a stray Firefox tab ;)
  • bee_rider 3y ago
    There are nice utilities for capping your CPU frequency on Linux. So, IMO it would be better to have the fan, set your cap low enough to not need to use it most of the time. Then if you do need it, you have the ability.
  • rationalist 3y ago
    I don't know if I won the lottery, but I have sensitive hearing and I've never heard a coil whine from my XPS 13 (9300). The charging brick did develop a whine which I replaced. It also had the perfect keyboard with no wiggling key caps. Later production 9300 models and recent XPS laptops do have key caps that wiggle (once you notice, it's super annoying, I think I've been spoiled).
• Yhippa 3y ago
  If the Pixelbook has the right aspect ratio, it would be my definition of the "perfect laptop".
• lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
  Am I the only one who likes 17" laptops? I miss my old lunch tray.
  • kwanbix 3y ago
    Love my ThinkPad P51 with 15.6". Which laptops have 17"?
    • lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
      There are still a few 17" laptops in production, like the razer blade, but I was referring to the 2011 17 inch macbook pro[0]. It was called the "lunch tray" by people who thought it was too big. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqfc9NBYfr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqfc9NBYfr0
    • rationalist 3y ago
      Dell XPS
    • bxparks 3y ago
      Dell Precision 77xx, 5750, 5760, 5770: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Precision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Precision (No first-hand experience with any of those.) (Updated: to add more models.)
    • algas 3y ago
      I love my P50! Although I'm still a little salty that I couldn't find any decent P51 models on eBay when I was buying, because I have a P51 mustang sticker on the back and the joke doesn't quite... land.
  • jpm_sd 3y ago
    I'm 6'3" and I have large hands. I'd love another 17" laptop. Anything less than 15" is an ergonomic torture device.
    • marginalia_nu 3y ago
• LaurensBER 3y ago
  For those who are budget or environmental conscious a second-hand Huawei Matebook can be a great choice. The older premium models have great battery life (think 13+ hours when undervolted), are passive cooled, have great 3:2 high resolution screens (with very thin bezels) and very good build quality. You can charge them with USB-C so if you have an Android phone you don't need an extra charger. SSD is upgradeable, sadly memory is not. It's not an alternative for a M2 MacBook, nor is it going to run your 200+ microservices but for 200-300 bucks they tick a lot of the boxes and work great as ultra-portable productivity machines.
• huangc10 3y ago
  Recently got a 14" mbp m2 Pro for work. So far 3 months in, I "think" it is the perfect work/personal laptop (excluding gaming).
  • jimmychoozyx 3y ago
    Check out the Anker 737 Power Bank I love the combo of my 14" M2 + Anker 737
  • uncletaco 3y ago
    Honestly my thing about buying a laptop for gaming is if you're gonna basically be plugged in to use it anyways you might as well get an itx case, throw in all the parts you need with a portable screen and keyboard and it will all fit in a backpack for you to carry around. Granted there aren't as many console style cases around as there used to be. I think I ordered the last Skyreach 4 Tiny.
• ramesh31 3y ago
  The perfect laptop (objectively) is the 15" 2015 RMBP. For those few glorious years Apple had a keyboard better than even the old Thinkpads. I'd give anything for that chassis/keyboard combo with an M2 chip in it.
  • xcv123 3y ago
    You got downvoted because M1/M2 MBP 16" has practically the same keyboard and chassis as 2015. I own both (2015 and 2021). The keyboard is much better than 2016-2020
• whispersnow 3y ago
  Always loved Thinkpad as a student, until it became Lenovo
• pengaru 3y ago
  The size of a laptop often affects the size and distribution of its keyboard keys. What's appropriate for the user has a lot to do with the size of their hands, and I think this gets overlooked by many who are instead thinking about display size. As a person with smallish hands who programs (types a lot), anything larger than an X40/X60 ThinkPad form factor has been very annoying to use. The move to widescreen aspect ratio displays has completely wrecked laptop typing efficiency in my world, since it tended to stretch out the keyboards beyond what my fingers can reach without lifting a palm. I wish laptop keyboards were treated more like specialized instruments fitted to buyers hands, like shoe sizes. If you consider how much $$ is paid to people that type all day, it's asinine that the laptop industry hasn't matured into optimizing that interface for individuals. Can't I at least get two hand size variants in the average laptop ordering page? Instead it feels like things have only regressed in this department since the classic ThinkPad days.
• LorenDB 3y ago
  This is why I own a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Yoga :) It also has quite nice system specs - 11th gen i7 and 32 GB RAM.
• lapcat 3y ago
  The closest I've ever seen to the perfect laptop (for me) was my 2006 17-inch MacBook Pro, to which I wrote an ode: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/macbookpro.html https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/macbookpro.html
• pachico 3y ago
  I'm tempted to say that it also needs IPS/anti-reflection screen. I am currently in the process of choosing a laptop and it's one of my main requirements. So far, I'm looking with tender eyes to the MSI Prestige 13 EVO. I have no idea about Linux compatibility, thought.
• bee_rider 3y ago
  I was initially annoyed at the lack of a headphone jack on my laptop, but USB-C to headphone dongles are very common and good enough for portable use. For desk use, might as well get a devoted DAC/AMP. So, I think they are a waste of space now. Webcams are a waste of bezel space, might as well get a non-junk USB one. Plus you can position it for shots other than up your nose. Give me like 8 USB-C ports and nothing else. 16:10 is OK but if we’re going for Perfect Laptop, obviously 4:3 is the correct aspect ratio. The current Apple Bluetooth magic keyboards are fine, use that (with a non wireless interface of course). These opinions are my own but they are also objectively correct.
  • shafoshaf 3y ago
    I've tried really hard to understand the outrage of not having a 3.5 mm headphone jack. I have Bose wired headphones and just use a dongle on the plane with my phone and tablet. My Laptop does have a jack, but it would be no big deal to use a dongle. I guess I'm just not an audiophile, but I doubt that many people are. +1 to 8 USB-Cs!
    • dot5xdev 3y ago
      The outrage comes from having to carry both the wired headphones AND the dongle. The dongle is small and easy to lose. It's much harder to lose your headphones.
    • bee_rider 3y ago
      I think it isn’t audiophiles because they’d have an external DAC/AMP anyway. Speaking for myself, I just had a strong attachment to my sort of middle-of-the-road headphones (Sennheiser HD380 pro). I don’t think anyone could reasonably call them audiophile. But they were expensive “to me” on a student budget, so I was worried/annoyed that somebody would mess with my (in retrospect quite limited) “investment.”
  • Night_Thastus 3y ago
    I used to feel the same way about headphone jacks on phones. Then I tried a cheap external dongle, the Ifi Go Link. It's fantastic and I'd never go back to the crap they put into the phone.
• robgibbons 3y ago
  HP EliteBooks are pretty solid. I have a few G7's in different sizes and dual boot on all of them. The 840 is probably the perfect size, 14" 16:10 screen, plenty of ports, excellent keyboard, fully upgradable SSD and RAM, and overall great build quality.
  • johnnyworker 3y ago
    I have a super old one (8470p) which I got refurbished, and I love that thing so much. Being from 2012 it's obviously not up for real work these days, but the build quality, how you can just pop open the case and expand and swap all sorts of things, that instantly spoiled me and my next laptop will be something comparable or better.
• soared 3y ago
  > an SD card reader, why not, they’re $5 … also the ability to upgrade the basics, like memory and storage > 12” body … to fit the 13" to 14" screen it would have very small bezels, this is a great size for fitting in bags and sitting on small tables Remove one and it makes the perfect laptop much more attainable. It’s near impossible to fit removable hardware and many ports in a small body. Thinkpads are pretty close, but even some of those have to have a flip open expanding port for Ethernet. An hdmi port is taller than many laptops. The small body really is a huge plus for mobility and comfort, but you can’t have ports/etc with that. Oddly enough my perfect laptop is still the google pixelbook. Enough power for what I need, flawless construction, incredible trackpad and keyboard, runs Linux and chromeos/android apps, is absolutely gorgeous, and super portable. Downside is there are like no ports so you need a usb hub, the bezel is huge, and … it hasn’t been improved in like half a decade.
• manav 3y ago
  Waiting on M3 Air.
  • crossroadsguy 3y ago
    Which will be - "The best MacBook Air ever. Starting with the gigantic and ground breaking RAM of 8GB." Yeah.
• maximamas 3y ago
  I'm no die hard apple fan, but you would think I was if you heard me talking about my 16" m1 pro. It's an absolute beast, battery for days, and I've never heard the fan spin up once. It would take a lot for me to even give another machine a chance.
  • CraigJPerry 3y ago
    Heavy though. Coming from an m1 air to a 16” pro is cartoon-eyes-out-on-stalks surprising when you first pick it up. I can’t help wonder if the m2 air 15” is the best on the market currently.
    • nwienert 3y ago
      The 15 air is actually quite a bit heavier, it goes from 'easily hold it up with one hand with lid open' to, well, barely possible. I'm so surprised more people don't want brighter screens. At night my screen looks gorgeous, though I could even go a touch brighter when doing detailed design stuff. Daytime? I'd go for literally 2-3x brighter if I could. Let alone working outside! Screen brightness is the biggest QoL improvement I'd get vs any other spec bump.
      • CraigJPerry 3y ago
        Yeah a brighter screen would be awesome. i misunderstood that the m1pro would be a huge step up in brightness from the m1air but it’s just as borderline in direct sunlight
    • walthamstow 3y ago
      15in M2 Air or 14in M1 Pro are both really great options, the optimal mix of screen size, weight, size and power
    • garciasn 3y ago
      I use a 13” M2 and it’s by far the best laptop I’ve ever used. The only things it doesn’t check off is the HDMI out and other ports issues IMO.
• hot_gril 3y ago
  MacBook Pro is near perfect. Just needs one USB-A port.
  • bamfly 3y ago
    You're not wrong. They pulled the A ports way too early. I upgrade more aggressively than a normal user (though less than a real cutting-edge enthusiast) and have only recently passed the 50/50 mark for devices in semi-regular use that use A vs C. A-terminated cords are still at least as popular on devices on store shelves, as C. This, years after Apple made a hard transition. If they'd at least brought the rest of their line-up over at the same time, that'd help sell me on that having been a good idea. But no, have to carry at least two types of charging cable when traveling, still, even with an all-Apple set of equipment.
    • hot_gril 3y ago
      Yeah and the biggest problem with that hard transition was that even as a well-behaved Mac user going all-in on USB-C, you'd quickly run out of ports, and there were literally no USB-C hubs on the market for years. Now they exist but cost a lot more than -A ones and have caveats due to varying capabilities. So -A peripherals still make sense even with -C laptops, and most things I see are still -A.
• Night_Thastus 3y ago
  >good quality DAC or audio interface (headphone jack), this is also something Apple tends to do a little better than competitors No laptop has a decent DAC. If you want a good dac, just get something external. Don't need to spend a lot either, even a relatively cheap ~$70 product will vastly outperform anything in a laptop, desktop or phone.
  • buildbot 3y ago
    People disagree with you when it comes to modern Apple hardware: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2021-macbook-pro-14s-dac-sounds-remarkably-good.966558/ https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2021-macbook-pro-14s-dac-sou... They actually put a really good audio subsystem in these things.
    • Night_Thastus 3y ago
      In my experience, Apple's offerings are only marginally better than the average, and are still vastly outperformed by something external. You don't need to spend a lot, but it really comes down to a couple things: * External, dedicated DAC * The software doing playback has exclusive control over the device (no Windows/Apple/Android audio mixers messing it up) * Set it for bit-perfect playback (this will disable any mixers available in the application) * [If possible] Play a lossless copy of the audio or use a streaming service that offers that option (space is cheap in 2023) Bam. Those steps will be night-and-day over anything integrated, it's not even close.
  • agloe_dreams 3y ago
    To be clear, unless you are in the > $2,500 headphone space, DAC quality has a hard limit of actual hearable use. Under that point, most external DACs are pure snake oil. If A user has $200 to spend on a pair of over-ear headphones. they should spend $9 on the DAC and $191 on the headphones. Hell, the $9 headphone adaptor vastly outperformed a number of $100+ DACs. The primary limitation of headphone quality onboard laptops is generally EMI, not the DAC. The Apple hardware is shockingly good on this front.
    • 3y ago
• phaedrus13 3y ago
  I've picked up the Samsung Galaxy book Pro or whatever it is, in 16" - and it pretty much checks all these boxes. Fullsize HDMI, 16:10 screen, headphone jack, sd card reader, USB C and USB A, large touchpad, keyboard is quite good (for me), screen is AMOLED (glossy but nice), battery life is quite good (I get about 6 hours of medium use), it's quite thin with small bezels,fans are a bit noisy but it's not something I care about, SSD is upgradeable (plus another slot for expansion/dual boot), RAM is soldered unfortunately, webcam is good, mics are good. Linux support is getting better, originally it was useless but after a few kernel updates it works quite well. Fingerprint reader doesn't work on Linux though.
• nicbou 3y ago
  I bought a 12" Macbook last year because my 15" is too heavy to lug around. It's so light that I forget that it's there. I spent months on the road with it. At home I would just plug it into my USB-C monitor and use a keyboard and Magic Trackpad. Unfortunately it's too slow to play YouTube Music in the background, especially if Docker is also running. I would buy an M2 version in a heartbeat if Apple made them. I recently bit the bullet and got an M2 Air. It's a lovely machine that's better in every respect, but it's 30% heavier, and I can feel that every time I take it with me. A 900 gram laptop that charges with a phone charger is just incredible to have.
  • thazework 3y ago
    Recently took my 12 inch MacBook on a multi day hiking trip (it survived!). Anything heavier would have been a nightmare.
    • vorpalhex 3y ago
      Why did you need a laptop while hiking?
• dusanh 3y ago
  Has anyone tried running Linux on any of the Huawei laptops?
• lawn 3y ago
  > a great keyboard, look to the 2008-11 era ThinkPads for inspiration For me a great keyboard includes having an ergonomic layout and being programmable via QMK or similar.
• binkHN 3y ago
  I’ll be that guy—The Perfect Laptop requires a TrackPoint. ;)
  • jehb 3y ago
    I came here to make this comment if it hadn't already been made. Seriously though, this is the one thing that has kept me a ThinkPad user ever since I got my first university-issued laptop 21 years ago. I've had other laptops since then, and I've never liked any of them. Once I've got my hands in a comfortable position for typing on a laptop, I often have to move either my entire arm or my entire laptop in order to use a trackpad. I don't even really want my laptop to have a trackpad, it's just something for my palm to accidentally hit. No, it's not comfortable for extended gaming or other things like that, but honestly if I'm not using an external mouse for that I'm going to be pretty grumpy anyway.
    • binkHN 3y ago
      Understand completely. On some of the ThinkPads I’ve owned over the years, I’ve simply disabled the TrackPad.
  • johnnyjeans 3y ago
    This and physical mouse buttons are my bottom line for any laptop. Without these, I'm simply not interested in using the laptop, they are not optional. Good keyboard is very close 3rd place. I don't care about the trackpad, I don't use it. I'd prefer if it didn't have one at all, in fact. My ideal laptop is basically an IBM Thinkpad 365x with modern screen, battery, updated peripherals and internals.
    • BanazirGalbasi 3y ago
      All three physical buttons, at that. My work laptop has a trackpoint and the right/left click buttons, but it's missing the middle button that lets you scroll with the trackpoint. The same button works as a middle-click for pasting the second text buffer in Linux, which is nice to be able to rely on when transitioning between terminal and web windows.
• samuell 3y ago
  The Asus ExpertBook B9 (12th gen Intel) I got from work, and now running Linux Mint on, is the closest thing to this spec I've experienced. I love the sub-1kg weight and paper thin feel despite being a 14". The first laptop I comfortably use in my lap. Only annoyance is the random short bursts of (low) fan usage, even on light load. Been able to fix the worst with pinning the max frequency down while doing light work, but looking to find a way to program it better. I would prefer a constant low fan use much more than these constant turning on and offs.
• causality0 3y ago
  My addition to the list would be "real mouse buttons so I can tell where the damn right-click is".
  • Nezghul 3y ago
    So you don't like when cursor is moving on click?
    • causality0 3y ago
      I find it infuriating. I have no idea how people live with those things. There's no reason you can't have buttons below a clickpad. It's like they just hate precision and users being able to right click without moving their thumb.
• zitterbewegung 3y ago
  There is one more possible drawback and it is business continuity or long term support (macOS and Windows by default and Linux for both (Apple eventually will have great Linux support)) and while Lenovo and Apple seem that they will be on the market for the considerable future we can't surmise that The Framework will be.
• user_7832 3y ago
  I had probably written a longer comment earlier on HN, but if anyone is looking at this and is waiting for the perfect laptop... don't. (Assuming you have the money & time, I unfortunately do not right now.) The catch is that you would need to have moderate levels of proficiency with mechanical and electrical skills. At the end of the day, commercial clamshell laptops... 1. Have terrible ergonomics, due to the small distance between the keyboard and the screen (unless you're a baby, in which case, hi!). The small screen size doesn't help unless you're okay carrying a 17" laptop around. 2. Have components that will fail due to hardware wear and tear. Most noticeable are the hinges but also USB/audio ports and sometimes keyboards. Be it gunk or an accidental pet dropping the laptop on the port. A few companies occasionally try to address [1] - like the Asus Easel or the Lenovo/Asus folding laptops that improve portability or screen angle/position. Framework laptops address [2], but are traditional clamshell. If you truly want a solution, a. Choose a decent single board computer (SBC) as a base, like a gigabyte brix. b. Print a 3d case for it to make it as small as possible. c. Spin your own display from panelook. d. Attach case from (2) with an expanding hinge-type contraption. e. Embellish with desired parts. I'd suggest framework expansion cards. f. ??? g. Profit! (It doesn't hurt that 4"*4" and VESA-compatible SBCs and miniPCs are often standardized at least in 2 dimensions. And if anyone's interested in anything more on this front - making one, selling it, making a business of selling it etc - feel free to reach out to me (email in profile). I'm frustrated with modern laptops and fortunately have a degree in mechanical engineering.)
  • the__alchemist 3y ago
    Hi! I'd like you to know that despite this being downloaded, I completely agree! The ergonomics and repairability concerns of laptops, as you point out, are a big down side. That said, I think what you posted as a solution is not practical and perhaps not portable (Multiple pieces? wires?); maybe something like what you're thinking as an easy-to-use/portable/commercial solution could be a design goal for future portable PCs.
• jollyllama 3y ago
  Author forgot swappable battery
  • lucb1e 3y ago
    And no soldered-on RAM while we're at it Checking that this isn't in the article, I noticed the word "RAM" isn't mentioned at all. Did someone say 24GB? I ordered 2x16 but then found that Lenovo ( >:( ) soldered on one of the sticks and I ended up with 24. Haven't run out yet. Though that may not be the most hedged against developers' speculation on user hardware progression for no reason other than to be more lazy (looking at Signal and Telegram here, among others).
• RalfWausE 3y ago
  Personally, i have found my perfect laptop: The Thinkpad R60, though ancient is - for the things I do - simply perfect. It runs really good with various BSD systems (and of course Linux), has an easily changeable battery, a - in my opinion - great keyboard, is repair- service and (modeartely) upgradeable. I have mine now for over a decade and will keep it running as long as spare parts are available. Will i ever buy a successor? Maybe... but (besides possibly the MNT Reform) i have not found anything which trigger the "must have" reflex in me.
  • JamesLeonis 3y ago
    FWIW, there's a move to transplant Framework brains into older Thinkpads [0]. The Framekenpad. I would love a Framework with a Thinkpad keyboard! [0]: https://community.frame.work/t/thinkpad-701c-with-a-framework-brain-transplant-work-in-progress/27409 https://community.frame.work/t/thinkpad-701c-with-a-framewor...
    • RalfWausE 3y ago
      Whoa, this is great! I really never thought about putting a whole new set of guts into it... Somehow i have now intrusive thoughts about a fast, energy efficient SBC and the Thinkpad...
• pico303 3y ago
  > another Apple can’t put my finger on why this is so much better than everyone else things Once you’ve used a Mac touchpad, it’s impossible to go back to a Windows/Linux laptop. I’ve tried…
  • deafpolygon 3y ago
    My current Lenovo laptop comes pretty close. I enjoy it a lot.
  • silon42 3y ago
    Personally, I don't like it as it's too large.. and I keep hitting it by mistake... for a while I ran Thinkpads with a touchpad disabled, just using the "nub".
    • stronglikedan 3y ago
      I have both turned on on my thinkpad, but instinctively use the nub 90% of the time. I use the trackpad for scrolling and zooming a lot though. ANd if I'm using it on my couch, I need to turn the trackpad off completely, because my belly keeps activating it. :-/
  • post-it 3y ago
    > can’t put my finger on why this is so much better than everyone else Because it doesn't move. When you press down on an Apple touchpad, it doesn't displace at all, it vibrates. This gives you an identical touch response across the entire trackpad, plus nifty things like Force Touch and customizable response intensity. Nobody else has done it, and it makes every other touchpad feel awful.
    • RandallBrown 3y ago
      Even before Apple did that their trackpads were dramatically better.
      • dsego 3y ago
• mrtedbear 3y ago
  I concur with the article. I recently got a ThinkPad X13 gen 2 (AMD) in one of Lenovo's heavily discounted sales. It was a pleasant surprise to discover how great a laptop it is, especially considering the price.
• charlie0 3y ago
  My perfect laptop is the M1. The thing I love the most is the screen. I've installed Lunar and can use XDR mode to take the screen to peak brightness. It really makes a big difference watching content or working in a brightly lit area.
• etchalon 3y ago
  The only laptop I've ever considered perfect was Apple's Pismo Powerbook G3 line. Hot-swap modules, a sturdy build, a great screen, keyboard and trackpad.
• mgaunard 3y ago
  I've got a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Nano Gen1. Better than Gen2 IMHO. The touchpad is the first thing I disable on any laptop. I use the keyboard and the red dot.
• benbenolson 3y ago
  I bought a first-generation Framework a couple of years ago, and it's been perfect for me. I don't especially need a thin/light laptop, but what I care about is that it's snappy and sturdy, has a nice keyboard, and can be repaired to last long-term (like the Thinkpad T430 that it replaced). The Framework fits the bill on those fronts, so it earns a long-term position on my nightstand.
  • gorjusborg 3y ago
    I also have a first gen Framework. I've used the following recently: - Framework 1st gen - Dell XPS 13 - Macbook Pro 14" (m1) - Dell Precision 5570 I wouldn't say that the framework is perfect, there are a number of minor complaints I have with it. However, it holds its own, and I really do love it, especially while running linux. I hope that Framework the company continues to support the early models with new mainboards and parts. If so, I'll be a very loyal customer. Oh, and the fact that I know I'll be able to replace the battery when the time comes is a beautiful feeling!
• Darmody 3y ago
  I want to mention Tuxedo Computers and Slimbook which are great. After trying a Slimbook I don't think I'll buy another brand unless a company like this one pops up. Of course Tuxedo is an equally good alternative but Slimbook HQ is literally 45 min away from home so that's a plus to me. They make laptops fully compatible with linux, offer great custom support, their designs are pretty nice in my opinion, good specs, quality build, good battery life (except for the "gaming" laptops), good trackpads, etc.
• pmontra 3y ago
  Starting with my ZBook 15 from 2014: 1. Make it 16:10. There is plenty of bezel for that. 1900x1200 or something like that. 1200p was pretty common on good CRT monitors in the 90s. 2. Make the number pad optional. Framework is doing that with their 16" model. I'll bury my number pad and give a party. 3. Keep the three physical buttons on the touchpad. By the way, it can probably do gestures and it definitely register clicks but I use it only to move the pointer and scroll with two fingers. I bought the physical buttons because I want to click with them. The middle one pastes the text selected with the left one (Linux.) 4. Keep it user serviceable. I replaced RAM, disks, keyboards, battery a few months ago, it aged well. 5. Maybe make it 2 kg. 6. Maybe trim some bezel on the sides and make it less wide. 7. Definitely make it work with a much slimmer power unit. 8. It's got USB 3 and 2 ports, DisplayPort, VGA, SD card. Probably add an USB C but I don't know. HDMI? I've got a converter for that. 9. Current year CPU and RAM. 10. Discrete graphic card? Don't know, probably not worth it. I have to watch videos and move my desktop, that's all.
  • silon42 3y ago
    11. Thick enough for an standard ethernet port.
    • pmontra 3y ago
      Sure, that was so obvious to me that I forgot to add it to the list. I'm using that laptop now with an Ethernet cable. Why should I want a laptop with a dongle connected to it all the time? Also internal WiFi and Bluetooth, no dongles for that please.
• bhauer 3y ago
  > 2560/1600 = 1.6 (this is a good aspect ratio, the perfect laptop has a ratio ≤ 1.6) Not just laptops, but monitors in general should be 16:10 or taller. 16:9 only became popular thanks to the computer display industry naively adopting the aspect ratio of televisions. But 16:9 comes from the film industry and has nothing to do with computer productivity. It's a shame that so many monitor manufacturers still focus almost exclusively on 16:9 (or even wider, when width is easily achieved by multiple monitors, side-by-side). I'm fine with the wide options existing, but give me some taller options, too, please.
  • qwytw 3y ago
    > or even wider, when width is easily achieved by multiple monitors, side-by-side) Why would I want that considering I can get a 21:9 or so display which is also sufficiently tall? I definitely agree on laptops and small display though.
    • bpye 3y ago
      I’ve never really been satisfied by how either Windows or macOS handle window tiling - and so having multiple monitors has been easier to make work. It also gives me the option of having one screen for one device, and one screen for another - though that’s maybe more niche.
• intrasight 3y ago
  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Especially with something that I would think is only used infrequently.
• jononomo 3y ago
  The following is my review on Amazon.com of the M1 MacBook Air: This is a landmark model, a classic, a perfect machine. I've been using the 2020 M1 MacBook Air base model (8 GB Ram, 256 GB HD) for almost 3 years now as a daily driver. I'm a software engineer and I use it to do web development, often with a single large external monitor. I have the base model and it holds up find to running multiple docker containers and my terminal and a couple dozen browser tabs and my editor and all the basic tools of software development. The design is particularly sleek and minimalist, even as MacBooks go. It has everything it needs and nothing it doesn't. And it is solidly built. I dropped my MacBook on a concrete floor at an airport from about shoulder height (I was holding it by squeezing it with my armpit while trying to pack up after going through security and it slipped) and it took a pretty good solid hit directly on the corner -- I have a small dent there in the aluminum that you would have to look pretty close to see, and other than that everything was fine. The battery lasts for so long that I often go a day or two without even thinking about where my charger is. It is very light, it has a fingerprint reader that works perfectly, and everything about it just seems functional and elegant. Also, it's super fast and snappy. I think this will go down in history as a landmark model. Apple did a particularly good job with this machine and I believe it will stand the test of time. This is a machine that a person could use for a decade. It's really nice and really well put together and well integrated as an overall package.
• smallstepforman 3y ago
  Real keyboard with full sized cursor keys, dedicated pgup/pgdn/home/end and PrintScreen keys. 2 nvme ports. 2 Usb-A connectors. QHD at 16:10. 32Gb, 8 true cores. AMD CPU + video (for Open Source geeks). Closest I ever found was HP Omen 16 Advantage Edition. Got it but it also has problems with trackpad, cheap speakers (B&O brand is meaningless), and power supply is a brick. Could use a 16:10 display (its QHD though). 8/10.
• stncls 3y ago
  > [...] > Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Nano Gen 2 > [...] While there is a lot to like about modern ThinkPad X1 series, beware that modern Intel "MIPI" webcams (like the one in this model) are unlikely to be convenient to use on Linux for the time being [1]. MIPI support is coming to Linux, both kernel and user space, but it is highly nontrivial, and a reasonable estimate is two years from now [2]. Or, you can make it work right now, but it requires some temporary hacks [3]. [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Nano_(Gen_2) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Nano_(Ge... [2] https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg4467429.html https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg4467429.html [3] https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=277462&p=3 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=277462&p=3
• blauditore 3y ago
  >excellent build quality I keep hearing this, also for phones, and people usually associate it with certain materials. Why? I'd rather have a light plastic laptop/phone that works well, is light, and survives a few hits than an overpriced piece of fashion. Bonus points for phones with cracked backs because glass "feels more valuable". Of course I understand the value of e.g. good hinges, keyboards etc., but pretty sure that's not what people are generally referring to.
  • marcellus23 3y ago
    > pretty sure that's not what people are generally referring to. What makes you think that? That's what I (and I assume others) are referring to. I.E. actual practical quality of the build.
  • _ea1k 3y ago
    I agree. TBH, I've been really happy with the build quality of the Lenovo P1. It isn't the prettiest design, but it is solid.
  • chazeon 3y ago
    One good plastic build that people praise about is Valve's Steamdeck
    • 6D794163636F756 3y ago
      But that's also a more niche audience. The people who've bought a steam deck (myself included) are more likely to care about, and know about, hardware. When selling to an audience that can't evaluate the build quality as easily you have to rely on shorthand. One common shorthand is that plastic things are bad build quality
    • mey 3y ago
      While the Steamdeck has a plastic shell (which is nice but not a luxury, expected at it's price target) it has a magnesium subframe. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4T0RZ6ustKQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4T0RZ6ustKQ
  • 3y ago
• wishfish 3y ago
  For me, the smaller the better. I'm fortunate enough to do most of my real work at a desktop setting, so I'd like the laptop to be as portable as possible. With that in mind, in terms of pure form factor, the Asus Flip Chromebook (2015) was about as close to perfect as possible. Sure, its processor was anemic even at release. I'd want a higher quality screen. But the keyboard was very good by my standards. The 10 inch screen was the perfect size and was 16:10. Weighed around 1.8 pounds (0.82 kg). If I could have that form factor with modern tech, I'd be in heaven. Second favorite is the current iteration of the iPad Mini. If I could get that with an M1 or M2, full MacOS, then I'd be happier than (insert metaphor here). Third favorite was the 2015 Macbook. I'd wish for a better keyboard and more ports, but overall the form factor & weight was extremely good. Would be stellar with a modern Mac kb and Apple Silicon. Fourth fave was a tiny Sony Vaio from 2000. Forget the model name / number. Also under 2 pounds with a 10 inch screen. Honorable mention to the Asus Eee of 2008. Screen was too small but otherwise it was a perfect size & weight. I guess I'll have to try a GPD laptop one of these days. They seem to be among the only ones providing tiny & small laptops.
  • BizarroLand 3y ago
    I'm of a different opinion. My current daily driver is a Lenovo Gaming laptop running Pop OS (I was running Fedora on it but due to the redhat drama I'm distro hopping to find a suitable replacement) I like rugged, beefy laptops with fast screens and discrete graphics. There are downsides, for instance, no linux system I've found yet seem to be able to replicate the battery life optimizations that come by default with Windows, Fedora had issues properly responding to the trackpad, pop OS seems to have stuttering issues playing back youtube videos on Firefox, annoying things like that, but I like having the raw power needed to do things like running stable diffusion or koboldAI or whatever LLM client I want or play some video games or editing images and videos, doing light programming tasks, and just being an all-around do-what-you-want platform that doesn't try to opinionate me out of an option I might want to try. I will probably give Debian 12 or SUSE a try on the next go round unless I find something better.
• amatecha 3y ago
  One missing criterion: allow purchasing without Windows pre-installed, and thus with a slightly reduced price. I resent that all new "Windows-default" PCs include the OS (presumably driving up the price) which I am going to immediately erase.
• blauditore 3y ago
  Recently I started looking for simple-as-possible, usually business laptops that have a certain level on each end (performance, weight/size, connectors etc.). However, they usually end up having some fancy feature I did not want, and it ends up making the experience worse. Examples are HP Sure View (it makes for a terrible viewing angle stability even when disabled), or some fancy huge MSI touchpad that doesn't quite work with Linux (no palm detection, which is detrimental).
• wanda 3y ago
  Get an IBM ThinkPad 380XD, swap out the screen for a Chromebook Pixel's 2560x1600 screen, then swap the board out for the Macbook M2's silicon along with as much RAM and as many ports as you can fit in the chassis. Port Windows 2000 to it, hit me up and name your price.
• willis936 3y ago
  I don't like that Lenovo is put shoulder to shoulder with Apple here. I have never personally owned a macbook, but my SO has and they are multiple classes above anything Lenovo has made in the past decade. My work gives me a P1 and I liked it for the first year (especially with that mobile xeon with every ISA extension on the block), but I am growing tired of it. Here is the short list: the touchpad drops out, blue screens, thunderbolt dock driver issues, docked displays needing to be unplugged/replugged multiple times, waking from sleep mode without my input (good reason to never use this for a laptop that is used on the road), failure to wake from sleep mode (full speed fan and black screen until the power button is held for 30 seconds), the laptop deciding to say "locking" for a split second then going to sleep while you are in the middle of working or presenting. Macbooks are not perfect, but lenovos are not good.
  • mistercheph 3y ago
    Every single issue you mention has to do with Microsoft's Windows, including the touchpad drop outs that are likely W11 palm detection.
    • inertiatic 3y ago
      I've had almost the exact same list of problems on my Dell XPS 13 running Linux.
    • filoleg 3y ago
      At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to the end user whether it is due to the OS maker or the hardware manufacturer. That distinction would only matter if the comparison was limited to Windows laptops only, because that would establish a baseline that is the same for every single option. Some people want nothing to do with any OS outside of Windows, and that't their choice, nothing wrong with that. Once Windows-only limitation is gone, that distinction becomes kinda pointless.
    • willis936 3y ago
      Probably not that since it's running W10.
• jasoneckert 3y ago
  Most of what the author describes as features of the perfect laptop can be found in the Tadpole SPARCbook (new technology excepted): https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/sparcbook3000st-the-coolest-90s-laptop/ https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/sparcbook3000st-the-coo...
  • pmontra 3y ago
    $21,000. Wow!
• uncletaco 3y ago
  For me the perfect laptop was actually the Chromebook Pixel LS from 2015. Retina 3:2 touchscreen display in a 13in aluminum shell with a really good trackpad, usb-c, and built in webcam. Could be configured with 16GB of RAM though the ssd topped out at 64GB, but it was a laptop, I wasn't going to be storing games or media on it. However that generation of the Chromebook Pixel had a defect of some sort where the adhesives in the screen breakdown after about 6-7 years and leak into the display, causing discoloration. In fact if you have one of these and have left it untouched for a good amount of time you should check it, there's probably adhesive that has leaked onto the keyboard. This single incident where my favorite laptop is basically unusable after 6-7 years with no way to raid another one for a spare display (they all have this problem, and their display isn't interchangeable with the 2013 model)is why I'm an even bigger proponent of right to repair and easily upgradeable or interchangeable parts. If I had my way of things, I'd simply open up the computer every few years and replace the motherboard with something more modern but keep the shell. If I knew how to design motherboards or replace laptop displays without completely destroying or scratching the chassis I would. Watching the screen slowly discolor and turn to a milky blue is almost like watching a beloved dog get old and develop cataracts.
• biggoodwolf 3y ago
  HP DV2000 keyboard. Unbelievably good by modern standards, better than many older thinkspads
• gwbas1c 3y ago
  Some things that I'd like: Either 100% USB-C, or include a USB-A port. I'm really sick of laptops containing ports that I'll never use, but needing to STILL carry around an adaptor. I don't see how anyone can justify getting rid of USB-A (which everyone needs,) while still keeping things like 3.5mm headphone jacks, SD Card readers, HDMI... Just go USB-C only (and make everyone carry an adaptor) or include a USB-A port with the plethora of ports that I'll never use. I really want to bring back 17" laptops. I know this is a niche market, but I really miss my old 2007 MBP's wiiiiide screen. I don't mind the weight and the size; and there's plenty of smaller laptops on the market for everyone else.
• ablyveiled 3y ago
  Personally, I've found laptops to just be a complete nonstarter for routine usage lately, owing to some postural dysfunction.
• javaunsafe2019 3y ago
  I would add the asus m16 to that list
• trashcanman 3y ago
  [flagged]
  • TranquilMarmot 3y ago
    I have an i7 Framework and an M1 Macbook that were built around the same time in 2021. I love the _idea_ of the Framework (and I prefer Windows to macOS) but you're right that comparing them isn't really fair. The Macbook has longer battery life, is faster, and is QUIETER. I do a lot of game development and doing it on the Framework, the bottom of it gets so hot that you can't touch it and it feels like it's going to burn my lap. The fan sounds like a small plane taking off and absolutely blasts out hot air. The battery only lasts ~2 hours. Exact same workload on the M1 Macbook and the fan doesn't even spin up. The battery lasts probably 6 hours. You can put it comfortably on your lap. I don't blame Framework here; I love the laptop but I don't think that a Windows/Linux machine can compete with Apple Silicon. ARM is just so much better for a laptop.
  • dtx1 3y ago
    > But, nothing compares to the new 15 inch MBA. That is hands down the best laptop made in the history of the Earth Hitchens's razor applies. It's certainly not the best laptop to play video games. Or to use outdoors in rough weather. Or...
    • willsmith72 3y ago
      Can you expand on the using it outdoors part? I work outside a lot but have never thought about that when choosing a laptop
      • dtx1 3y ago
        There are rugged notebooks you can use in the rain or under extreme conditions like this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7dpdqO1EZK0&pp=ygUUbHR0IG91dGRvb3Igbm90ZWJvb2s%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7dpdqO1EZK0&pp=ygUUbHR0IG91dGR... Try using "best laptop made in the history of the Earth" for 10 minutes in the rain and see what happens
  • 3y ago
• hamandcheese 3y ago
  System76 comes very close for me, but they use 16:9 panels :( X1 carbon would be perfect if the would simply match the battery size of the MacBook.
• oktwtf 3y ago
  Gosh, the Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Nano Gen1 and Gen2 are awful, dreadful, terrible machines. I can understand having a thermal constraint tied to the thinness of chassis, but you would think it’d maybe throttle instead of shutting off in the middle of work. After blowing through 4 separate nano configurations all with the same fundamental problem and riddled with quality issues and borderline abusive support getting bounced around “specialists”; I’m much happier with a M1 Pro MacBook Pro. Not nearly as light, but it’s worked every time I open the lid and want to use it for as long as I want. And that to me is the bare minimum. I have a desktop with a few gpus in it for “fun”, so a laptop for me often is a client to access more power if needed. I run Sunshine and get 4k60 streaming for desktop, 3d modeling, video editing, and even gaming on occasion. Now with a MacBook instead of a thermally constrained thinkpud I can even do that stuff on the m1 locally do a degree.
  • koyote 3y ago
    That's interesting, I've been running a Nano Gen1 for over a year now with no issues whatsoever (running both Linux and Windows). What I have had happen is my work Dell machine (Windows) shutting off if it overheats. I have to make sure it's on a surface that does not heat up and lets air flow freely. Resting it on the couch will kill it within 10-20 minutes. I use the Nano from the couch/bed for hours with no issues.
  • emrah 3y ago
    Perhaps it's something as simple as bad thermal paste application
  • pwpw 3y ago
    Huh I’ve been using a Thinkpad X1 Nano for nearly 2 years now primarily for personal dev work, and it’s by far my favorite laptop I have ever owned. It replaced a 2020 M1 MacBook Air, which replaced a 2016 MacBook Pro, which replaced a 2009 MacBook Pro. This laptop is so good, it will take a really good reason for me to upgrade before a decade. I pair it with a much more powerful desktop, so I wanted a lightweight laptop that’s totally capable, and I have found it absolutely delivers. I’ve been running Arch Linux on it for what it’s worth. On the other hand, I cannot stand my work M1 MacBook Pro, but that’s primarily because it weighs so much and the keyboard is pretty mediocre, so it’s not fun to travel with. It’s more of a docking laptop, which defeats the purpose of a portable machine for me.
• JamesAdir 3y ago
  As much as I'd like to find a new laptop, I can't still find anything better in terms of form factor and keyboard than the ThinkPad X200/X220. Really can't understand why they don't keep at least one model that is aimed at people looking for a laptop you can work on, and not just another model with tenth of an inch shaved of the thickness of the laptop.
• betimsl 3y ago
  It won't quench your thirst. But it exists, here you go: https://www.xyte.ch/mods/x230/ https://www.xyte.ch/mods/x230/
• PhasmaFelis 3y ago
  > a large, quality touchpad backed by great software > another Apple can’t put my finger on why this is so much better than everyone else things I was gonna say, I don't use Apple devices anymore but no one makes touchpads like Apple. I have no idea what it is or why it's apparently so hard to replicate, but MacBook touchpads seem to intuitively work exactly how I expect them to, to the point that they're pretty much as seamless to use as a mouse. No non-Mac model I'd used before or since measures up.
• PhileasNietzche 3y ago
  It's billed as a gaming laptop, but I'd say that the ROG Flow X13 fits the bill as well as any 13" laptop could in 2023.
• jbarham 3y ago
  I have a ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen 9 and I'm very happy with it. It's fast, quiet, absurdly light, has a 16:10 screen, a decent selection of ports and the famously good ThinkPad keyboard. I dual boot Windows and Ubuntu without any issues. For me it's the perfect laptop.
• ElectronBadger 3y ago
  For me it's my ThinkPad T14 with Ryzen 5 PRO 4650U and 22 GB of RAM. Before it I had Macbook Pro and Macbook Air.
• Daneel_ 3y ago
  T-series Lenovo thinkpads. They perfectly fit the bill here, and have for years.
• andersrs 3y ago
  Apple gets it. If I'm using a laptop I don't want to stick my fingers onto a touch screen blocking my view and leaving marks. Macbook does one thing extremely well. It is a laptop for serious people not a lap-tablet. The touch pad is BIG. I need it to be big because it needs to fit my body. Every other brand always seems like trying to sleep on a mattress or wear a glove that is too small. Even a slight difference in size can mean the difference between completing a gesture in one fluid motion or running out of room and having to do it in multiple motions. The scrolling resolution on Mac is much finer than windows which does one line at a time. It's frustrating trying to make adjustments like zoom in windows because the scrolling is so damn janky. I've had 3 different ThinkPads and 3 different Macbooks and I've always preferred the Macbooks for so many reasons like battery, thermals, display, non-plasticy materials.
• crossroadsguy 3y ago
  M1 or M2 MacBook Airs *with 16 GB RAM* (and this is the catch). These are notoriously costlier (and difficult on retailer sites where you get deals) to have compared to their 8GB counter part - Apple already making it difficult for users to keep the laptop around for longer, because that default 8GB RAM is going to run out sooner than you think. And you can not upgrade it once bought. Anything on Windows (or Linux considering you'd install that) I wouldn't even touch below 24-32GB or 16GB to begin with and then expandable up to at least +16GB. It is so shocking to see people declare their laptop just works at the soldiered xGB RAM. Well, a year and half later it will start feeling the pinch.
  • ActorNightly 3y ago
    This all depends on your usecase. My daily driver is an older $300 Dell laptop with 8gb of ram running bunsenlabs with i3wm. All I did is stick a 500gb ssd in it and it works absolutely fine. With standard dev workflow, I can get close to 6 hours of battery life, never run into memory issues. But my development is mostly python and C. I do agree that Macbook air from a hardware perspective is a very good configuration for a general purpose laptop, but the MacOS absolutely ruins these laptops, at least for me. Having a work issued Mac, its kind of amazing to me with how much bullshit OS things people, especially technical ones, just put up with.
  • brailsafe 3y ago
    My intel MBP 13" has only lasted as long as it had because I got the 16gb of ram, and wouldn't consider anything lower these days. The upgrade from 8 to 16 only a few years ago though was about $200 (already too high imo), but now every ram tier is a laughable $500 CAD upgrade. FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS for 16g more, and even though I know it's a great computer, it just feels sinister. Considering it's an additional $500, I'd be paying a full grand for the 32gb package. Like it's only priced for idiots who finance a new car every few years and get all the options
    • crossroadsguy 3y ago
      Yeah. Unfortunately high RAM - no strike that; reasonable RAM laptop is hard to find at reasonable prices. And by the time FrameWork or something like that reaches my corner of geography I think it’d have been too late for me to try those things. There was sale recently in my country across online retailers like Amazon. There was decent discount on 8GB one, but the 16GB one? It’s not even available. It is never available with retailers.
• v3ss0n 3y ago
  Dell precision 17 inches with 4k for me. Lighter than most gaming laptop and comes with powerful workstation gfx card to run LLMs
• teo_zero 3y ago
  I don't understand this: > at least a 16:10 ratio, if not taller Should the ratio be at least or at most 16:10?
• amne 3y ago
  the Lenovo Yoga 7 proX something something fits my perfect laptop criteria: - well built small form factor, metal, premium feeling - hi-dpi and bright 90hz screen (I think recently they upped to 120hz. very smooth) - affordable 32gb ram variant - powerful and efficient CPU for daily tasks + some dev here and there - amazing keyboard. I still think Lenovo laptop keyboards have the best feel.
• stonecharioteer 3y ago
  I use an Asus RoG X13 Flow 2022 edition, and while it has its flaws (that the 2023 edition ironed out), I run Fedora on it and it's wonderful. I use it docked most of the time, and my requirements were mostly unique. I wanted power. This has a Ryzen 9 and 32 GB RAM. I needed a 13 inch form factor because I use external monitors and don't want to lug around a large laptop. And for the keyboard, I use a Kinesis Advantage 2 most of the time, but I had a very specific form factor requirment as well, I wanted to be able to use the laptop with the keyboard folded up under it. This gave me the ability to do that and plop my Kinesis in front of it. More desk space! I like the built in keyboard though and for the life of me, I don't like trackpads. I've used a Mac before and while the trackpad is nice, and I've considered attaching a Magic Trackpad to my keyboard, I'm in love with trackballs. I use a Logitech MX Ergo Plus, and it is wonderful. I use Qtile so I don't really rely on the mouse much, but when I do, the trackball is great. But I get the appeal of a Mac. I've considered getting a 13 inch MacBook and using it to just ssh into a cloud machine for work. I'm on the fence about it, but I might do that one day and just live my life in the terminal.