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Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)
- ameister14 3y agoIn the US, the state of Maine does not allow billboards. It's a thing I didn't notice until living elsewhere, and it's really nice.
- Eumenes 3y agoVermont too!
- endisneigh 3y ago[flagged]
- ericmay 3y agoThey’re not giving up much anyway regardless of their overall level of economic activity. These billboards are not just an eyesore but violate the public space at the expense of everyone else. Should be banned nationally (globally would be great too)
- endisneigh 3y agoI'm curious - what's something that's not an eyesore? People think art is, graffiti, even buildings, etc. The difference is some of these generates money for governments to solve actual problems, and the others... do not.
- jxf 3y agoMost people don't think that nature is an eyesore, and many national parks are significant tourism generators for their local economies.
- endisneigh 3y agoI’m not sure concrete buildings are natural, and these ads were not found primarily in national parks so I don’t see the relevance. Ironically most of the arguments against ads also apply to housing which is why there’s a global housing crisis. A lack of nuanced thinking about trade offs
- jxf 3y ago> I don’t see the relevance. Your question was "What's something that isn't an eyesore?", then went on to suggest that "eyesores" are not all bad since they can provide public funding for fixing problems. I gave an example of something that isn't an eyesore and provides very large amounts of public funding.
- tchaffee 3y agoThere are huge trees everywhere in São Paulo. Billboards would block the view of some of that gorgeous green. Nature doesn't exist just in national parks.
- ericmay 3y agoOne key difference is the scale. You can think of a billboard as really bad graffiti that’s shoved in your face to manipulate you. Graffiti is ugly too (not to be confused with urban art) and should always be removed. Generating money for the government isn’t something to be concerned with in this context, and most likely a billboard doesn’t generate enough money for the government versus the drain it has on the public sphere. (I’d be shocked to find it worthwhile). I do think we need architectural standards and thankfully the federal government is looking to implement Greco-Roman architecture as mandatory for federal buildings [1]. Suburban houses for example are really awful architecture and continued research shows this [2]. Tall skyscrapers produce a fight or flight response. Beauty isn’t in the eye of the beholder. We just don’t have the tools yet to objectively define beauty. The Notre Dame Cathedral is objectively beautiful (this also answers your question about what is not an eyesore) and Boston City Hall is objectively an awful building. You can have an opinion that differs from this but it’s like having an opinion that gravity doesn’t exist. Likewise broad scale highway billboards meant to try and sell you something promote private profit at the public expense and transform otherwise beautiful landscapes into something that is jarring and disfigured. 1] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/23/2020-28605/promoting-beautiful-federal-civic-architecture https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/23/2020-28... [2] https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781003031543/cognitive-architecture-ann-sussman-justin-hollander https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/97810030315...
- Luctct 3y agoYou see, you just said that "We just don’t have the tools yet to objectively define beauty" and "Boston City Hall is objectively an awful building" (and holy shit, it really is awful) in the same paragraph! Don't you see the contradiction? In another comment here, someone said, "I'm not arguing for or against that - I'm just stating a fact (...) I find it extremely ugly." Hey, "I find it extremely ugly" IS arguing against! There is the contradiction again. But you see, people are all apologetic because they are afraid of criticizing. The truth of the matter is that tagging, graffiti, murals or whatever you want to call these abominations are made by very poor youngsters who could have access to real art if they wanted (museums, libraries, internet), but they don't because they are brought up in a ghetto culture that basically forbids them from even getting interested in traditional art. And a lot of people cower when they criticize it (or never criticize it at all) because criticizing that garbage is considered politically incorrect. So that so-called "art" is only tolerated thanks to fear of reprisal and should be labeled "fascist art" because that's what it is.
- Zambyte 3y ago> So it's not like they really are giving up much with not having advertisements. Maybe the fact that they don't allow billboards is related to the fact that they are less consumerist? Seems like ads would stimulate the economy, and that is not what they want. I'm curious how they rank for happiness.
- nerdponx 3y agoSubjectively and anecdotally, Vermonters I know are very proud of their no-billboard rule. I wouldn't expect VT to have a high happiness ranking however, given the (also anecdotal) drug problem in some places, and threat of a less-snowy winter climate damaging the ski and winter tourism industry.
- kibwen 3y agoLooks like tourism is 20% of Maine's economy, and keeping your landscape beautiful is an important part of attracting tourists. Billboards are eyesores that reduce the beauty of your surroundings, so it's natural to ban them.
- e-dt 3y agoWell, yes, but Maine and Vermont are also in the bottom ten states in terms of population. Surely there is not such a big difference in economic activity when you look at it per capita?
- ameister14 3y agoWouldn't that mean the opposite? Billboards would make an outsized impact, so they are giving up more, rather than less.
- dahart 3y agoI can’t help but notice how much assumption and spin is heaped into that comment. FWIW, neither of those states is in the bottom ten by per-capita GDP. Is your claim based on absolute GDP, and if so, why? Most of the states that actually are in the bottom ten by per-capita GDP have a lot of billboard advertising, so how do you rationalize your suggestion that outdoor advertising is linked to economic activity? Texas and California are both in the list of states least friendly to billboards, and they are the top 2 states in absolute GDP. https://billboardinsider.com/the-8-least-friendly-states-toward-out-of-home-advertising/ https://billboardinsider.com/the-8-least-friendly-states-tow... > it’s not like they really are giving up much with not having advertisements. What a strange statement. I’m sure you’re aware that ranking states by GDP says nothing about their absolute economic measures. You cannot claim that being low in the rankings leaves them with nothing to lose, that’s just poor logic. The per-capita GDP of Vertmont is about $63k per year, while Colorado (which is in the top 10) for example is $82k per year.
- marssaxman 3y agoThe city of Seattle banned billboards thirty years ago. During that time the city has experienced extraordinary economic growth. If we've given anything up with the ban, it's nothing anyone misses.
- goodcanadian 3y agoThe state of Hawai'i also bans billboards and severely limits other outside signs and advertising.
- dontlaugh 3y agoBeautiful.
- 23B1 3y agoI agree that in many cities, advertising is a blight. São Paulo is not one of those cities, and has much bigger problems than outdoor advertising.
- quirino 3y agoThe first time I visited São Paulo I was pretty horrified at the some parts of the city. So many buildings that looked like they were falling apart. I'm all for the no advertising though, wish that was the norm everywhere.
- diego_moita 3y agoAgree, São Paulo is as bad as most 3rd world big cities. But one less problem is one less problem, even if it isn't a big one. You get better when you eliminate problems.
- endisneigh 3y agoAdvertising is not definitely a problem to begin with, though. Advertising helps with a robust commercial industry and generates revenue for municipalities. Can it be done wrong? Of course. Nuance is lost on folks I suppose.
- _factor 3y agoThere is no net positive to advertising. Period. Let me convince you that my product is better than the others by spending money to keep the information abundant and flowing.
- andsoitis 3y agoLove the idea, but the execution can be better. The photos show empty billboard frames, remnants of old ads against walls, etc., making things look dilapidated but not in an Anthens-ancient-ruin kind of way.
- vc9999 3y agoThe article and photos are from 2011....
- emblaegh 3y agoSao Paulo is not a beautiful city by any means, but the law has been around for long enough that these remnants are very far in between.
- andsoitis 3y agoGood to know. I haven't been back to Sao Paulo since 2004, so wasn't sure how widespread the remnants are.
- NoboruWataya 3y agoWould be cool if these spaces (or some of them) were given to local artists to use.
- tr4vis 3y agoToday they actually are, São Paulo is famous for it's street art. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/30/world/americas/brazil-sao-paulo-murals.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/30/world/americas/brazil-sao...
- milemi 3y agoThere’s way more ugly graffiti scribbles than street art there, sadly.
- vc9999 3y agoThat's basically what happened, just google São Paulo street art.
- nelsonic 3y agoThis is awesome. Discovering this kind of post is exactly why I read HN and not other "news" sources. Agree with others that the "empty" billboard frames look off. But much better than attention-seeking adverts. Wish more cities would pass this kind of law. Billboards are such an eyesore especially the pointless political ads we are forced to see.
- kevincox 3y ago> Agree with others that the "empty" billboard frames look off This is also a temporary cost. Yes, the existing relics are unattractive but over time they will be removed and not replaced.
- nelsonic 3y agoTotally! Removed or made into art or something practical. Love it.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 3y ago> and not other "news" sources I mean I really enjoyed this piece too, but it's not really news. HN really shouldn't be relied upon as a singular news source. There's plenty of things you should know that aren't the intellect candy that HN promotes
- nelsonic 3y agoTotally Agree that there are plenty of things most people need to know about that do not surface on HN. But being a time poor parent means I personally don't spend much time reading long form articles anymore and visiting "news" sites full of ads & trackers is just lame as the signal to noise ratio is way off. Visit the BBC News https://www.bbc.com/news https://www.bbc.com/news once a day to see what's going on in the world. But beyond that only got time for HN twice a day for 5 mins and Twitter once a week also for 5 mins ... If you know of a similar text-based (or low image count) site like HN that has high quality news and no fluff/click-bait please share. Thanks.
- dlojudice 3y agoThe law really changed the way people look at the city. Since the article is from 2013, I think the percentage of approval has increased to more than 70% or, for younger people, the city is just like that, they have no reference of the city with billboard and all.
- gota 3y ago> Seven years on, the world's fourth-largest metropolis and South America’s most important city remains free of visual clutter and eye sore that plagues the majority of cities around the world. Unfortunately it suffers greatly - to a ridiculous level, in some places - from that ugliest kind of grafitti, convoluted "tags" made in single-stroke black ink I'm not sure if that is the case everywhere but in Brazil people even have a separate name for that (pichação), to separate it from grafitti (which evokes some form of art) It is truly staggering the amount of pichação you see in São Paulo. Google "pichação são paulo" to have some idea Here's an example: https://jpimg.com.br/uploads/2017/04/3914518869-pichacao-em-predios-do-centro-de-sao-paulo-239135342-1.jpg https://jpimg.com.br/uploads/2017/04/3914518869-pichacao-em-...
- g3ol4d0 3y agopixo é arte
- rbanffy 3y agoWe can’t really legislate what is art and what isn’t. The previous government wanted to make Brazilian art “heroic” and we all know how it ended.
- gota 3y agoI'm not arguing for or against that - I'm just stating a fact (there's a lot of pichação in São Paulo) and an opinion (I find it extremely ugly, even if I do like grafitti, including the more artistic and colorful tags)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- namaria 3y ago> to separate it from grafitti (which evokes some form of art) You seemed to be implying pixo is not art tho. Funny thing is, American use of the world graffiti was precisely to deride stuff that they didn't consider 'urban/street art'. Just some youth made graffiti tags...
- endisneigh 3y agoI disagree with this move. Though advertising is certainly excessive in many cities. They should've kept it, restrict what can be advertised (e.g. no alcohol, drugs, or things that the city deems 'bad') and used the revenue to beautify the city. In any case, Sao Paulo did have too many ads which restricted the view. At the very least that should've been resolved. Though I suppose given HN people will applaud this move which is ironic given that we all are basically on a marketing forum for Y Combinator.
- bigbillheck 3y ago> used the revenue While a 100% tax on advertising revenue is certainly a good start, I don't think the city was seeing any of that money.
- rbanffy 3y agoI lived there. The adverts were making the city ugly. It was a massive improvement when we got rid of them.
- endisneigh 3y agoLuckily there is something in between "ugly advertisements" and "no advertisements at all"
- rbanffy 3y agoNone at all is still better. When you allow some, you’ll have people gaming the rules and finding loopholes. A clear ban is easier to enforce. As for making the city ugly, I grew up there and I’m the first to say it’s an acquired taste. You get used to the grit, to the harshness and the layers of architectural history. Visiting the city centre is always some sort of a discovery.
- endisneigh 3y agoNone is not necessarily or inherently better because advertising generates revenue. You would need to weigh the revenue vs. the nebulous value of "no advertising". Given that there exists stores in Sao Paulo, you still see "advertisements", just not on billboards. You speak of the grit - said grit could be improved with government efforts funded by... advertisements in part. I suppose this lack of nuanced thinking is why the war on drugs is still a thing. There are many bad things that you can try to unliterally ban. There are tradeoffs.
- sparrish 3y agoMakes it look abandoned to me. Probably because my mind is used to seeing advertising everywhere that people are or transit so when I see no ads, I think no people. I'm not sure ugly gray concrete is better than a big colorful billboard though. I'd like to see it in-person.
- denisdl 3y agoThe photos in the article are from 2011, I believe, when the Clean City Law was introduced. There are no more empty billboards or advertising structures, many facades have been renovated, including works of art by Kobra and other graffiti artists.
- Cthulhu_ 3y agoNah it's not, it makes it look abandoned like you said; they should put in some color, art, character, etc. But not graffitti art, while I don't hate it, I'm sure there's good alternatives to spruce up a city.
- marliechiller 3y agoPerhaps its revealing of the true nature of way cities really are - huge concrete, brick and mortar landscapes. Maybe the revulsion is a natural reaction and humans are inclined towards a more earthly aesthetic which advertising simulates through color
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- luizlobo 3y agoInteresting from someone that leaves in SP for 2 years and just spend about 40 days in Berlin and 21 in NY last year, this doesn’t seem to resonate as such a big difference. Berlin almost doesn’t have any billboards and NY I didn’t saw it bothered me, at least in Brooklyn. Curious on how SP was in the past. Unfortunately the city has way worst problems then billboards.
- meerita 3y agoI've been in São Paulo for a week, and the city feels depressing. The architecture is horrible, boring, and not well-maintained, especially when compared to the architecture of old European cities where at least the buildings are aesthetically pleasing. The excessive advertising only worsens the situation. I've also visited Berlin, and unfortunately, it too felt quite dull.
- Towaway69 3y agoWhat city doesn't feel dull? Where do you live or rather what is city that isn't dull and depressing? Without a comparison it seems strange to compare two completely different cities, in two completely different continents.
- zgluck 3y agoBerlin sure loves their concrete. (I kind of agree. I have family in Berlin so I have visited them quite a bit during the past 20 years or so.)
- picadores 3y agoThe idea, that the public, in violent surges, could reject the most outrageous violations of the almende, it seems to be to alien to comprehend for some market liberals. The beast of burden just has to take it and thats the end of the story.
- wood_spirit 3y agoPresumably in a few years all billboards will be virtual, painted over top of reality by AR? And San Paulo will be bedecked again, at least as experienced by normal people with whatever comes after mobile phones. As will Rome and your local park?
- awestroke 3y agoAin't gonna happen
- Mordisquitos 3y agoWhat makes you think normal people, such as myself, would have any reason to willingly use advertisement-laden AR rather than enjoy good old ad-free R?
- wood_spirit 3y agoIn the same way that today everyone is dependent on phones. When I grew up, the phone hung in the kitchen with a long curly lead. Nowadays everyone (including adults) seems to have their head in their mobile phones at any and every lull in conversation. My car projects traffic info and directions straight onto the windscreen. A fancy feature now, but surely ubiquitous in just a few years. My windows computer, an Operating system which I paid for, has started injecting ads and promoted content into the start menu. And so it’s easy to imagine that everyone is going to be bombarded by injected ads in a future world whether we like it or not?
- kroltan 3y agoI lived until recently in Florianópolis, one of the state capitals of Brazil. It is a naturally beautiful island city, and it has an iconic bridge leading into it ("Ponte Hercilio Luz" if you want to search for photos). For some god forsaken reason, someone got away with building a gigantic - and I mean GIGANTIC - screen billboard right in line of sight of this historic postcard. I don't recall when it was installed, but if you look at any photos of the bridge taken from the south since maybe 2015, it is there. It is bright, it plays animated ads the entire day, and it is also perfectly aligned with the nearby major road Beira Mar Norte so that people driving south to the bridge see it just off to the side of their view where it won't be covered by transit. Frankly just due to the animations I'm surprised it is not banned as an epilepsy hazard, but alas, money speaks louder than reason, and one of the most iconic and beloved sights in this city is now tainted with the most vapid disservice to humanity. Here's a screenshot of Google Street View: https://i.imgur.com/OXeVkuq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OXeVkuq.jpg (annotated as their camera doesn't pick up on the brightness during the day due to sea haziness)
- tr4vis 3y agoI'm from Florianópolis and everyone I know hates that stupid billboard - it goes against the natural vibe of the city. In person it's an eye sore from kilometers away.
- whats_a_quasar 3y agoNot directly related, but it's so cool that three different people from Florianópolis have commented! I don't think I'd ever meet someone from that part of Brazil in my normal life. That's a little bit of internet magic
- alganet 3y agoSome additions: Stores also cannot use their full façade for advertising. Branding colors and details are OK, but logos cannot be too large (don't know the exact rule). The law is picky. Some stores cheat by having a glass façade, and using LEDs inside that glass. Like this: https://imgur.com/a/CLdUD1C https://imgur.com/a/CLdUD1C Since this law was adopted, there's been an increase in full building graffiti, which is not banned. Now 10 years later, it is more likely to see one of these nowadays than an empty outdoor frame https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=sao+paulo+full+building+graffiti https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=sao+paulo+full+buil...
- vc9999 3y agoFinally someone who is not spitting things they have no clue about
- airstrike 3y agoMany of those full building graffiti are the beautiful work of renowned street artist Eduardo Kobra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Kobra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Kobra
- tchaffee 3y agoI love SP street art but I think most of Kobra's stuff is terrible. I did see one recently that I liked. Is it art? Yeah. Is it fine art? Yeah probably. Just not my cup of tea.
- whats_a_quasar 3y agoCan you say more about what you don't like about Kobra's art vs. other street art? I'm curious, not familiar with the genre!
- tchaffee 3y agoOne of his signature motifs is to put a checkerboard in everything. Do an image search for "kobra checkerboard" and you'll see. I find it a bit cliché and it doesn't appeal to my asthetics.
- milancurcic 3y agoBoca Raton doesn't allow billboards, car dealerships, or Walmarts. We don't normally notice it, but these things jar us as soon as we go to neighboring towns. It's a subtle improvement of outdoor experience (more architecture and green spaces) that percolates into quality of life. A good analogy of this may be browsing the web with ad blockers--pages with ads are busier, noisier, and load more slowly; yes, if the page content is bland, removing the ads will make it blander.
- endisneigh 3y ago> A good analogy of this may be browsing the web with ad blockers--pages with ads are busier, noisier, and load more slowly; yes, if the page content is bland, removing the ads will make it blander. A great example. If there were no ads, the web, and this site, wouldn't exist. Moderation in general is key. This site for example has a single advert which is the top banner, as well as job postings. Subtle and allows the site to fulfill its purpose commercially and create a venue for discussion. Banning this site (which is really an ad, by the way) would benefit no one.
- Luctct 3y agoThe Web analogy is good to remind us that advertising has become some kind of war on the population. I remember when ads were relegated to the sides and corners of any Web page. Now they are inserted in between the paragraphs of what you're reading, some of them blink and there are also pop-ups. Some have an "x" to let you close them, but they come back just seconds later. More and more sites now will show you nothing at all if you disable ads or Javascript or even cookies. People use ad blockers because they don't want to see the ads, so it's reasonable to assume that they are not going to buy anything or if they do it's not abusive advertising that will determine their shopping decisions. But that doesn't seem to matter at all. You just have to look at the damn ad. Just look at the damn ad. Look at the ad or we will send an assassin over to your house! VIEW THE AD, DAMN IT! It's just insane.
- dang 3y agoRelated: São Paulo’s Outdoor Advertising Ban (2016) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20725409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20725409 - Aug 2019 (94 comments) A global movement to ban urban billboards - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10370576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10370576 - Oct 2015 (192 comments)
- gpjanik 3y agoThis should be a standard.
- iLoveOncall 3y agoThis is literally a dream for me. I think of it often, what if all form of advertisement was banned? For me it is one of the two big cancers of the 21st century and contributes to an overall massive feeling of restlessness.
- npteljes 3y agoAs an individual, I'd welcome no advertisements everywhere. I think ads were abused long enough. It's just a leech on the human life.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoThat's considered a radical stance, but I +1. Ads should just be banned anywhere in general. They concentrate power to those who already have it, because you can make more ads if you have more money. The local burger joint cannot compete against macdonals on advertising, the local soda against coca cola. It's ugly, eat attention, and interrupt. It creates business models with terrible incentives, which leads to censorship in medias, quantity over quality, attention driven content, etc. It encourages mass surveillance, and is used to influence society in the worse ways, making it dangerous to democracy. Finally, if you remove ads, suddenly you get a much better filter for things: if people don't think it's worth even a little bit of money, let it die. It was not worth it. Besides, even if you pay, you still see ads. You see submarine articles in paid newspaper, ads before your movies in the theater, ads in your bus ride... Can you imagine, all this ads money, now free to be invested in something else?
- dahart 3y ago> That’s considered a radical stance I don’t think so. I think business wants us to feel that way, while the average person would choose to not hear/watch/see ads given the choice. I’m not necessarily against advertising, and regardless it’s a fact that advertising drives our economy and as a whole we generally don’t know how to create and conduct business without advertising. But I am against the notion that not wanting ads is a radical stance. I think we do need to prevent that notion from being normalized. Business doesn’t get to expect me to watch ads or make me feel guilty or like a freak for not wanting them. They have to work for it. I say this as someone who has run a business and had to do advertising, and as someone who has never worked for a company or organization that doesn’t advertise.
- arketyp 3y agoAlternative script for Carpenter's They Live: He put the sunglasses on and went about his day.
- bkraz 3y agoI recently learned Kyoto has rules about signage and specifically color saturation. Some of the rules seem too detailed, but the end result looks very nice. https://youtu.be/KuX3nu4jdo0 https://youtu.be/KuX3nu4jdo0
- goodpoint 3y agoTHIS. High saturation colors are loud and tacky. Kyoto look wonderful.
- dredmorbius 3y agoI've applied a desaturation filter to a number of websites. The Register for example: body { /* A little less bloody red, eh? */ filter: saturate(33%); } (Via the Stylus CSS manager extension.) I also browse extensively on an e-ink (monochrome) tablet, and find that the lack of high-saturation colour is very welcome. I suspect that even colour-based e-ink displays, given their muted pastel palette, might also be an improvement in general. Edit: That's Stylus, not Stylish, as I'd initially written, Which has Gone To The Dark Side.
- goodpoint 3y agoInteresting. Stylish looks like malware tho.
- dredmorbius 3y agoGood catch. I'd meant Stylus, though I keep getting the two confused as I'd initially relied on Stylish. Corrected above.
- wizofaus 3y agoSlightly ironically given the gist of this discussion, the ad shown before that video was actually one I wanted to see and watched till the end (trailer for latest Indiana Jones movie).
- doylio 3y agoIt says that many businesses opposed the change, this could be beneficial for them too. Advertising can be a prisoners dilemma, where all parties end up paying for it and getting the same result as if they all stopped paying for it
- infinitedata 3y agoIronically, this joke of a website is full of spam…
- msla 3y agoNo outdoor advertising which is acknowledged as such, perhaps. Advertisers always find ways to ply their trade.
- BMorearty 3y agoThis unexpectedly reminded me of what East Berlin looked like in 1988. It looked gray and dull compared to West Berlin. I've told this story for years without realizing that lack of outdoor advertising made the difference.
- Towaway69 3y agoAnd the lack of investment in housing. East Berlin was simply rundown and could not afford renovating old houses. Those they built on the outskirts were also grey concrete blocks. No amount of advertising would have helped.
- gom_jabbar 3y agoIn Zurich, the ban against billboards was recently introduced as well. It reminds me of the discussion of ad blockers on websites like Youtube and Co. After all, advertising is actually a fundamental part of the economy. How are things in Sao Paolo 10 years later?
- DoingIsLearning 3y ago> After all, advertising is actually a fundamental part of the economy. Ridiculous claim. Product discovery happens regardless of street advertisement. It very much is visual pollution.
- sischoel 3y agoDo you have any sources on that? The only thing I could find was that some parties want to ban digital billboard in the city of Zurich (not the whole canton).
- gom_jabbar 3y agoSorry, I had to clarify that the final decision has not yet been made. The city still approves digital billboards [0]. In Geneva, the debate has been going on for some time. There, I think since 2021, digital billboards should be banned, but in the latest votes there is the counter-movement to keep the billboards [1]. - [0]: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/hbd/de/index/bewilligungen_und_beratung/aussenwerbung/aussenwerbekonzepte/konzept-plakatierung/digitale-werbeanlagen.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/hbd/de/index/bewilligungen_und_... [1]: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/geneva-throws-out-ban-on-commercial-adverts-in-streets/48353784 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/geneva-throws-out-ban-...
- kekeblom 3y agoI live in Zurich and there are several billboards on my residential street.
- tomalaci 3y agoI feel like this kind of strategy would work for cities with buildings that have artistic facade but would backfire immensely for those that dont.
- dredmorbius 3y agoIt might also encourage adoption of more decorative facades amongst the latter.
- wkdneidbwf 3y ago> Others predicted that the city would look like a bland concrete jungle with the ads removed. lol. only advertising folks are going to pitch ads are a that make a city beautiful.
- coding123 3y agoInteresting content for a site filled with taboola crap.
- thecaio 3y agoDude from Sao Paulo here. I found this law a blessing. The picture in the articles make it look like the city is scattered with abandoned billboards but that's not the case. You won't see any one from SP complaining from this piece of law. City looks better, with intrusive, cheap-looking street advertising (mostly) gone. Businesses survided.
- century19 3y agoOne of the noticeable things when visiting Cuba is the lack of advertising boards. There are political slogans instead, certainly gives a different feel.
- WaitWaitWha 3y agoI am all for cleaning up the advertisement everywhere. That said, I am not sure the article convinced me with the conclusions drawn. > Despite the forebodings, São Paulo’s economy didn’t run aground ... All those advertising business are now defunct. That is a significant impact to those companies and 20,000 employees. It is disingenuous to write "20,000 people would lose jobs", then flip and say the entire city "economy didn't run aground". > Unexpectedly, the removal of logos and slogans exposed previously overlooked architecture, revealing a rich urban beauty that had been long hidden. Personally I am not seeing that much "rich urban beauty". Definitely there are some buildings of architectural significance, but vast majority of the buildings are not. Again, I like the idea of advertisement reduced to a minimum, but let's be honest of the outcomes.
- kevincox 3y ago> That is a significant impact to those companies and 20,000 employees. I would rather that we don't pay people to perform harmful activities. I understand that it is awful to lose your job but I think we should target that rather than keep them working harmful jobs just so that they can live an acceptable live. If we had high quality social safety nets than it would be an inconvenience but manageable. I would rather pay these people to have a comfortable life or find a new job.
- anigbrowl 3y agoThat is a significant impact to those companies and 20,000 employees. Good, they were making money off information pollution and psychological manipulation.
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoThis might also motivate people to demand better buildings and facades. Without advertising concealing the mediocrity and distracting from the ugliness, there is greater pressure to make buildings beautiful.
- gjfxdfyu 3y agoWhat a nuclear waste of a website. What a shame.
- slantaclaus 3y agoI stopped reading pretty quickly but scrolling down those pictures aren’t exactly sellin it
- rajnathani 3y agoThe LED ad billboards on Times Square obviously look cool (obviously a bad counterexample), which is a walking only/primary area. Thus, if there’s ever a law to outlaw outdoor advertisements, that the focus could be on parts of a city/town/area which are more car/roads focused, or near tranquil places like parks, and otherwise (thus to spare squares-like exceptional places like Times Square).
- earthboundkid 3y agoThere are a number of areas in the US that ban billboards, including Hawaii and Vermont.
- irusensei 3y agoArticles about São Paulo outdoor law comes back from time to time on HN. Maybe because people here have a hard on for central city planning? I don’t know but you should look elsewhere for your fix. This law ruined the beautiful Bairro da Liberdade, a neighborhood that used to have influences of japanese culture.
- bradley13 3y agoHonestly, this is true of most creative activities. Playing an instrument? Singing? Painting? Drawing? Almost everyone has some sort of creative activity they enjoy. The enjoyment comes in part from the lack of pressure. The activity doesn't have to pay the rent - at most, it's beer money. Perhaps more negatively: expecting to make a living with something that millions do for fun? Hubris. Very few really are that good, but only very few. For the rest of us? Enjoy your hobby for what it is.
- bananamerica 3y agoThat is a minor thing, but I would love if people spelled our words right. The city is called "São Paulo", not "Sao Paulo", which makes for a completely different pronunciation. I get that they may not know how to type it, but anyone can copy and paste from Wikipedia.
- lbschenkel 3y agoRemember that they are not typing in Portuguese, and in other languages places have other names/spellings. I say this as a Brazilian myself, who is fond of the original spelling. I live in Scandinavia, and do you feel it is fair for me to criticize you for writing Gotemburgo and not Göteborg, or Copenhague and not København? The article is in English, the conversation is in English, and like it or not places like São Paulo are spelled without diacritics in English. Or should an article in Portuguese in a Brazilian newspaper write Deutschland instead of Alemanha?
- bananamerica 3y ago> Or should an article in Portuguese in a Brazilian newspaper write Deutschland instead of Alemanha? What bizarre examples, those are entirely different words, I'm talking about a minor difference in acentuation. And I don't care what the rule is, it's disrespectful, it's an article, and copy and paste exists. They even do it with proper names. You don't change proper names. The name is "Pelé", not "skin". So disrespectful.
- lbschenkel 3y agoLet is keep it to South America then. Do you think you're disrespectful when you write "Peru" (Portuguese dropped the diacritic from "Perú") or "Colômbia" (now we added a diacritic that is not in the original "Colombia")? What about "Paraguai": why is "Paraguay" so hard to type that we had to change it? And this is coming from a sister language, Spanish. I think you're not paying attention to how languages work.
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- dahwolf 3y agoNo disrespect to any citizen, but it remains the ugliest city I've ever seen. Pure random concrete chaos.
- MysteryChessBox 3y agoThis is a great policy for the city but this killed half of Liberdade's soul, because our little Tokyo had to also pull down all our their Japan-evoking signage. See a sample of the neighborhood in the 80s: https://quandoacidade.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/238.jpg https://quandoacidade.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/238.jpg
- SapporoChris 3y agoArchitecture, Art, Cuisine... whatever is part of the culture, can be utilized to evoke another country. Obviously signage will work, but it's sort of a cheap way to do it.
- OliveMate 3y agoI often find myself coming back to this piece from Sean Tejaratchi which was partly stolen by Banksy – https://web.archive.org/web/20120314093434/http://www.readingfrenzy.com/ledger/2012/03/taking_the_piss https://web.archive.org/web/20120314093434/http://www.readin... Minor anecdote: During the pandemic a lot of the billboards and bus stops around me suddenly didn't have advertisements plastered on them any more, and it made my daily commute a lot calmer. No longer were sudden blobs of highly saturated colours and popping text dragging my attention away from me, and I'd do a lot of things to have that back. At least AdBlock is a thing in the digital domain.
- gverrilla 3y agoTangential, but I highly recommend the documentary Pixo (2009). It talks about the story of "pixação", an artform typical of São Paulo, which has been called vandalism by some people in this post - and it's not that simple.
- hilbert42 3y agoGreat, I've not been to Sao Paulo but can understand what it's like without ads. I went to Prague before Communism fell and I was truly amazed at how beautiful the city looked without an ad to be seen anywhere. It was like being in a time warp back to the 18th Century. I believe I wasn't alone in having this view because I'm told the movie Amadeus (about Mozart) was made there, as Vienna, where the movie was set, had too many ads. Tragically, when I went back a few years after Communism fell ads were rampant everywhere. Damn shame really.
- milemi 3y agoI grew up in a socialist country before the fall of communism. Us kids of my generation were envious of the flashy lights and billboards that we saw in the movies from the west. The architecture of pre 20-th century was as flashy and kitschy as the people of the day could make it with the technology at their disposal. Look at the façade ornamentation and ostentatious spires of the old churches. Or the imposing architecture of 19th century government buildings, with the government often being the king or a bunch of wealthy landowners. Anyway, I prefer the architecture reflecting the hustle of today’s commerce to the one made to glorify the past authorities.
- hilbert42 3y ago"The architecture of pre 20-th century was as flashy and kitschy as the people of the day could make it with the technology at their disposal." That's somewhat of an overstatement. I understand why people like modernist architecture but that's a different matter altogether to plastering over any architecture—modern or ancient—with a mishmash of billboards and ad posters. Modern architects don't want their works defaced either. On the matter of façades and ornamentation of pre 20th Century architecture, no doubt some were ostentatious by the standards of the day, as are many buildings of the modern era, but many were not. Moreover, what passed for 'ostentatiousness' in one era would be matter-of-fact in another. For example, if you took late Victorian architecture back a hundred years say to Georgian era (ca ≈1720—1820), it'd be considered scandalous. That said, there were and still are longstanding rules about ornamentation on buildings such as friezes and moldings. These conventions have stood the test of time and go right back to Ancient Greece and Rome. For instance, curves such ovolo, ogee and cyma just to name a few haven't changed one iota since those days several millennia ago (I have woodworking tools that cut those shapes precisely right to the correct mathematical curves—that's how fussy many people still are even these days—much more so than I am). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molding_(decorative) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molding_(decorative) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frieze https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frieze They've stood the test of time because people of every age—ancient and modern—consider them beautiful and harmonious. Of course, that doesn't mean modern stuff is bad, the objection is that ads screw up both ancient and modern architecture because they don't pay credence to the existing architecture, they are there solely to distract for the purpose of selling, that is that they are purposely disruptive and break the harmony of the landscape whether it be modern or ancient.
- 6510 3y agoHow do consumers know what products to buy? How do they find alimento?
- mieubrisse 3y agoAs an American moving to SP, this was one of the most striking things when I first arrived by air. It's buildings, as far as the eye can see, and it looks different somehow: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fefz08yo2e1i11.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=aab81222e07bed03367b727daad6f4b4d329b4af469bdd34aaff828ec491ee5d&ipo=images https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F... Then you realize later that it's all architecture, free of advertising. Sadly, it's not completely clean - on the way from GRU there's still a decent amount of high-standing billboards and generic crap.
- badosu 3y agoBecause GRU is in Guarulhos, a neighbouring city
- OwenFM 3y agoNot all advertising is for capitalist GDP maximisation − as a member of a political party, our biggest challenge is informing people that we exist, and that they don't have to vote for the incumbent parties that have kicked problems along the road, for decades. If you ban advertising, be careful what you wish for.
- LightMachine 3y agoI'm in São Paulo right now and I didn't even notice that. I guess everywhere else is just flooded with billboards then?
- gibb0n 3y agoThis sounds incredibly relaxing
- eq88 3y agoBring this to Vancouver, BC
- oatmeal1 3y agoOne of the reasons advertisements are frequently so annoying is that they're designed to be noticed by motorists at speed, so they're very large.
- jaimex2 3y agoLook at street view instead of the articles pictures. It's not a big deal at all.
- candydiaz 3y agoAt first glance this may be perceived as a good thing. But as someone who lived my whole life in Sao Paulo i dare to disagree. Not only it killed part of advertising industry, and for me made the city uglier, it was a faccade to destroy small businness, shops and buildings and replace them with condos for the mayor friends. Who "surprisingly" used to be a civil engineer. Funnily enough, the only thing allowed to have huge billboards and outdoors is the Estate, public buses, subway wagons, subway stations. They are all full of advertisements. Huge ones, and guess what. Much more expensive cause they have the monopoly of it. Hypocritical to say the least. This law, together with the PSIU law which forbid loud noises, were used to close down small business, demolish them and build useless lifeless new buildings. Where there were life, shops, bars, restaurants, lights, its now full of huge buildings, more crime and the corpse of a once alive and blooming city.
- jakecopp 3y agoCanberra, Australia (the capital) also has banned outdoor advertising since the 1930s (except near the airport): https://www.abc.net.au/canberra/programs/breakfast/should-advertising-billboards-return-to-canberra-andrew-hughes/8210642 https://www.abc.net.au/canberra/programs/breakfast/should-ad...
- jen729w 3y agoCanberran here! It’s bloody lovely. You don’t appreciate it until you go somewhere else. Worth noting that ‘since the 1930s’ ≈ ‘since the city was founded’.
- Cody_C 3y agoAnytime I hear about outdoor advertising I think of a quote I saw in the book Civilized to Death. A long time ago man saw Times Square and sat in silence. A few people asked him what he thought. He said this would be beautiful if I couldn't read.
- siquick 3y agoHow was that book? Looks interesting.
- Cody_C 3y agoI really liked quite a bit of it. There are some points I wasn't too sure of however, it gives a great counterpoint to the endless conveniences that modern society provides. I would recommend it, I still run I to thi is that I end up thinking back to the book. I believe everything people enjoy goes back to something primal. It also shows how far we have come from what we use to live like, both good and bad.
- 12907835202 3y agoHa I was just thinking a similar thing. I'm much more immune to adverts in a foreign country especially if they use a different alphabet all together. I'm not quite sure I'd consider it beautiful, but it's mildly freeing nonetheless.
- resolutebat 3y agoThis is a big part of why people go gaga over the neon in Tokyo. It's less sexy when you can actually read all the MEIJI LIFE INSURANCE, ALL YOU CAN EAT BBQ, YODOBASHI CAMERA, [prostitution] INFORMATION CENTER ads it's composed of.
- anaganisk 3y agoThe Times square was the first place I visited in the US, Imagine a bright TV on four walls in a room playing unskippable YouTube ads. That was my feeling, I have no idea why people go crazy about watching ads. To each their own.
- carabiner 3y agoAdvertising is devouring the world, but in the meantime, there have been some great tech startups that have enriched Bay Area landlords.
- tdyfhfhf 3y agoI hate billboards, but I also think they're fascinating. They immediately show you what a city is about. I live in San Francisco these days and it's always funny to me driving around seeing billboards for cloud services, financial services, investment banks, SaaS, Napa wineries ... I grew up in Texas and it was always megachurch, porn store, strip club, megachurch ... I lived in Hawaii for a few years and the complete lack of billboards was so very nice.
- unkulunkulu 3y agoIronically, the article is an ad nightmare
- dirtyid 3y agoHow much energy did this reduce?
- pelasaco 3y agoI was some weeks ago and Sao Paulo and I'm pretty sure I saw a lot of outdoor advertisements.. btw I wasnt there since 2019 and was sad to see how the city went down by the corona lockdowns. Sao Paulo a real cyberpunk city, a dystopian mega city: https://www.instagram.com/spcyberpunk/?hl=en https://www.instagram.com/spcyberpunk/?hl=en
- mvindahl 3y agoIronically, I had to locate the X and close two video ad overlays in order to calm the screen enough to enjoy the article. And even then, the right part of my screen was flashing ads, and every few paragraphs an ad was shoehorned into the text. And yeah, don't have adblock on my work PC which is probably why it's so insufferable. Advertising the kind of industry that you'd really like to shove into a plywood submarine and set its bearings for the Titanic.
- hknmtt 3y agothis is how every city should be. you cna advertise your own business on your own property but that is where it ends. real life is no the internet with popup crap all over it.
- ShawnL30 3y agoNever thought I would miss ads
- fillipvt 3y agoI'm being alerted of my ad blocker on this news site, on an article related to there being almost zero ads on a city. A bit ironic.
- aquir 3y agoThe funny thing is that if the outdoor advertisements are not in your native language they're affecting you much less! I sort of noticed this when I've moved to a different country; I am sort of blind for these because my brain is not reading them automatically!
- mattymf 3y agoConstant billboards ruins scenery.
- annadiru 3y agoI've been visiting sp since 2005, i eventually moved there '09 and lived there till '23. I remember the pre-06 cityscape. You were bombarded by visual ads in the 100s every half hour. It was absurd. Most of the buildings were absolutely covered in low-effort graffiti, callef pixação or pixo (pronounced peeshu). Since then there really has been a flourishing of murals and street art. The quality and quantity are flabberghasting. It added a lot to the sense of discovery while out exploring a new corner of the city and sense of place for places one returns to. Many of the artists like veracidade became close to household names. Overall it was a wonderful change whose impacts subtly changed the atmosphere of the city, making it much more livable. The only problem was in the liberdade neighborhood, home to the japanese disapora of the early 20th century: their local business depended on kanji signs hanging off the facades of the buildings. After the law change the neighborhood's economy sorta collapsed for a while, but is now recovering.