49 ms·
Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans
- germinalphrase 3y agoWell, now - Financial Times doesn’t give away much for free, do they.
- windexh8er 3y agoThe Bypass Paywalls plugin works well with FT [0]. [0] https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome
- slowmotiony 3y agoIf you're on iOS then I find that this shortcut works pretty well - simply open the paywalled link, share and then "Unpaywall". https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/71648f5ad34f4d8f972718e5f3621ffe https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/71648f5ad34f4d8f972718e5f36...
- michaelsbradley 3y agohttps://archive.is/7uy6M https://archive.is/7uy6M
- cubefox 3y agonomen est omen
- kalium-xyz 3y agohttps://archive.is/7uy6M https://archive.is/7uy6M
- slowmovintarget 3y agoTLS gives no cypher overlap error.
- SSLy 3y agoget firefox
- dredmorbius 3y agoI've been seeing the no-cipher error intermittently on Firefox as well. The site is working for me at the moment.
- slowmovintarget 3y agoFirefox is the only browser that gives that error message. The same error yields a different message on Chrome. I switched back to Firefox Developer Edition in 2017-ish.
- ollien 3y agoThis is likely a result of Cloudflare DNS redirecting you, since archive.today does not have its DNS set up in a way that Cloudflare likes.
- rampant_ai 3y agoHoly hell this drove me crazy the other day. Firefox wouldn't work, but my backup, Chrome, did. But a fresh Firefox profile also worked. So I figured I must've left a bad user-agent string or something in my about:config. But after lots of trial and error with FF settings, curl/dig, with VPN, without VPN... turns out it was because I was using Cloudflare DNS. I forgotten I'd switched a while back when I was getting dropped packets to quad9. My best assessment is for whatever reason Cloudflare's DNS gives a different A record pointing to a non-TLS (or broken TLS) redirect, so Chrome worked because that's allowed by default. A fresh FF profile also worked because it defaults to DoH thus bypassing the problem completely. My VPN worked because it has its own DNS. But because my daily driver FF profile is set to use system DNS with forced TLS, it'd hit the broken redirect it got from Cloudflare and die. So as usual, it was DNS.
- ollien 3y ago
- mensetmanusman 3y agohttps://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-forced-cuts-vision-pro-050237529.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-forced-cuts-vision-pro-...
- Tepix 3y agoEven if they only build 100,000 units, it should be enough to build hype and get developers onboard for their more affordable mass market 2nd gen device coming in 2025. For context, Oculus sold only 56,334 of their DK1 devkits.
- LegitShady 3y agoOculus were nobodies more or less back then and didn't have apple's supply chain expertise, and even still their devkits were only like $300 USD 10 years ago. I feel like the major cuts are because of lack of hype. I don't think anybody understands if there is a market for this, so nobody is sure how much money to put into developing for it. To me this feels like the first apple product in a long time without a compelling use case and no solid idea of who the potential customer is.
- Tepix 3y agoI don't think they will have problems selling a few 100,000 units at $3500. The first testers report that the displays are indeed extraordinary and using them as desktop monitor replacements is feasible. That alone is a great use case.
- LegitShady 3y agoagain, the issue is development dollars. Its great that its high resolution displays, the question is if your company wants to dump hundreds of thousands of development dollars making something for the vision pro when its not clear there's a consumer market for them, or who the target market is. Sure apple could sell 100,000 anything. The question is are you going to be able to make any money developing for apple's $3500 VR headset or not. I don't think that these can be used for desktop replacements makes them worth it as desktop replacements. $3500 is an "out there" price with no ecosystem level market, in my opinion.
- Retric 3y agoI think 3rd party developers are largely irrelevant for it’s initial success. It’s like the original iPhone, if the hardware and built in apps are compelling then people will buy it which will eventually create an ecosystem. That’s IMO why VR has largely failed, out of the box there hasn’t been a compelling reason to get one and there isn’t enough software to keep people interested.
- RC_ITR 3y agoFrom the beginning, this product was a very classically Apple strategy of 'let's just take the Next Gen technology, integrate it well, and beat everyone else to market.' Similar to the iPhone 'winning' capacitive touch (or the iPod winning with Toshiba's mini HDD's), Apple plans to 'win' on SOTA hand tracking, camera-based full-color passthrough, face tracking, etc. These are all things that Meta (and the rest) have talked about, but have not yet executed on. It's not surprising (given this strategy) that the first runs are at low yield, the $3tn question will be can Tim Cook fix the problem fast enough (he was largely chosen as CEO because of this exact skill). My guess is that this follows a 1/2 scale iPad trajectory - People like it, the early days are choppy but no one denigrates the product's quality, the product defines the category (and potentially becomes the category like iPad did), then over time the category becomes a utility product (e.g., iPad cash registers driving a lot of sales) rather than a 'new' iPhone.
- Someone 3y ago> classically Apple strategy of 'let's just take the Next Gen technology, integrate it well, and beat everyone else to market.' If that were true, they’d long have an iPhone with a foldable screen, and would have shipped AR/VR glasses years ago. I don’t think that ever was their strategy. IMO, they figure out what a good product needs and build it as soon as technology allows. That always requires integrating technology well, and often also requires using new tech, but that’s just a consequence of wanting to build the best possible. Beating everyone else to market certainly isn’t (high) on their list (“less space then a nomad”, “my Nokia could do that years before iPhone”, etc)
- turnsout 3y agoYes, they only beat people to market in the sense that once they release a product, everyone else realizes that's what the product should be and creates variations on it—so in hindsight it looks like Apple's take is the "first."
- l33tman 3y agoWhich is weird because with the vision pro is not really any "first", they are incrementally doing a lot of things a bit better. My stupid guess is they probably worked for so long on this that they figured they have to ship something and see what sticks. It's cool that they do, of course. But the use-cases displayed in the demo video are just weird, not what I expected apple to come up with.. you don't buy a ski-mask to make 3D photos of your kids, or buy a ski-mask to watch 2D facetime windows of conference call participants even if they are floating in mid-air instead of on your phone..
- norwalkbear 3y agoI got to try one (several big companies got them in advance) absolutely brilliant. I was worried my Unity Game dev contracts were dead for good, but I'm back now baby. Apple saved my consulting biz with their Unity partnership!
- xtagon 3y agoHave you also used any Meta Quest devices and are you allowed/willing to say anything about how the experience compares between them?
- norwalkbear 3y agoApple vision pro's screen is extremely extremely high quality. It's what Vr should have been to begin with The only thing that sucks is no controllers
- pinkcan 3y agowhy would your unity gamedev consulting be dead without this? anything happening in this space?
- maskedinvader 3y agoProbably referring to the announcement of partnership with unity [1]. [1] https://www.uploadvr.com/apple-vision-pro-supports-unity/ https://www.uploadvr.com/apple-vision-pro-supports-unity/
- sbrother 3y agoAt least in my little corner of that world, Unreal has been gaining mindshare and market share pretty aggressively for the last five years. This is forcing me to start thinking about Unity again.
- norwalkbear 3y agoEconomic downturn lead to unofficial freezing of contracts
- Waterluvian 3y agoI am very pessimistic about the future of VR beyond it being super nice for niche cases. But I think there’s something fundamentally good about: 1) Apple taking a stab at it, because it’s the kind of thing where UX really matters and Apple does UX well. 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in, often because they’re not bursting at the seams with cash, talent, and runway.
- placatedmayhem 3y ago> 2) Apple not being trapped in the “if we can’t sell a billion of them then why even bother?” mindset that so many other companies get trapped in, often because they’re not bursting at the seams with cash, talent, and runway. I feel like the iPhone mini being only two years long is a strong counterpoint to this. There's a small hope for an iPhone 15 mini, but with no 14 mini, it's a long shot. It accounted for 6% of all iPhone sales in it's first quarter, after a delayed and rocky launch.[1] There is a small but somewhat vocal minority that want smaller screens, which Linus Tech Tips' sub-channel Mac Address covered recently. [2] [1] https://www.tomsguide.com/news/iphone-12-mini-sales-a-disaster-heres-the-proof https://www.tomsguide.com/news/iphone-12-mini-sales-a-disast... [2] https://youtu.be/BjhiYa0KsSM https://youtu.be/BjhiYa0KsSM
- Waterluvian 3y agoA smaller iPhone isn’t exactly an exploratory venture into a new market. And loud minorities don’t make a market.
- nukeman 3y agoLoud minorities can form a market, if they are willing to put their money where their mouth is. But too often they don’t (cf. the “brown manual diesel wagon” from the car world. Enthusiasts say they want one, but when a manufacturer puts one out, they don’t buy enough of them).
- 3y ago
- idlewords 3y agoThis makes me worry they might cancel the solid gold Vision Pro Edition next.
- wlesieutre 3y agoYou may have to go to third party accessories for that https://caviar.global/catalog/virtual-reality https://caviar.global/catalog/virtual-reality
- ckluis 3y agoWTAF! I mean I know there is a market for everything, but a gold-plated vision pro… and a Rolex-embedded in a smartphone case… To each their own.
- wlesieutre 3y agoI obviously don't know anyone who would buy this, but my impression of the product category is that it's for rich people who can't cope with owning the same Vision Pro as any chump with $3500 sitting around. How is it supposed to be a status symbol if it doesn't cost $40k like their watch? Same with a Rolex embedded phone case, having all the money in the world won't buy you a fancier iPhone than anybody else, so if you're intent on turning everything you own into an excessive status symbol you have to take your device that already has a built-in clock, and add an less accurate but handmade and more expensive watch to it. I have a hard time imagining who exactly would be impressed by that, but what do I know?
- markus_zhang 3y agoI read many positive posts written by users who went to the conference. I'd like to try it out but I also do not think I'm going to wear a headset a few hours everyday. I wonder if I can rent it for a few weeks from my company...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sys_64738 3y agoTalk about brain dead. Here is a product but it can't be mass produced.
- paxys 3y agoThe fact that not a single person wore the Vision Pro or showed off anything other than prerecorded/rendered videos during the keynote should have given everyone a clue about how far along in production it was. Everything about it gave off the vibe of marketing teams overhyping a product and engineering left to pick up the pieces afterwards, which is very unlike how Apple usually works.
- wmf 3y agoJournalists were allowed to wear the headset during closed-door sessions after the keynote. It exists and it works. By not allowing anyone to be photographed wearing the headset, Apple appears to be doing some kind of preemptive damage control about the fact that headsets look dorky no matter how expensive they are.
- enraged_camel 3y agoI don't understand why grossly misinformed comments like this always make it to the top in these threads. Yes, the headset exists and it works. People wore it after the keynote and wrote about the experience.
- hedora 3y ago“Exists and works” is not Apple’s normal bar for a product launch. They routinely ship 100M units in a sales cycle.
- detourdog 3y agoMy theory is they set a bunch of unattainable goals for the team. The deal was they would ship the product when these milestones were met. Once the goals were met they had to ship the product despite uncertainty on how exactly it would be used. They could tell it could be used but have no insight if it will be used.
- bredren 3y agoThe existence and functionality of iPhone at launch: > They had AT&T, the iPhone’s wireless carrier, bring in a portable cell tower, so they knew reception would be strong. > > Then, with Jobs’s approval, they preprogrammed the phone’s display to always show five bars of signal strength regardless of its true strength. > The chances of the radio’s crashing during the few minutes that Jobs would use it to make a call were small, but the chances of its crashing at some point during the 90-minute presentation were high. [1] This mobile data hackn was among many other problems with the product at the announcement of iPhone. iPhone sold ~1.4 million units in the first year. But arguably, the Vision Pro is easily 10x more complex of a product than iPhone was. It is also a much bigger leap in human computer interaction than a touchscreen. I think these sales projection numbers seem reasonable for what the tech is, and if anything the system’s stability at demo was way further along than iPhone. [1] https://archive.is/Bo5f5 https://archive.is/Bo5f5
- wahnfrieden 3y agoWhat kind of software, speaking as an independent developer, is going to work well with a market of only some 100k's of users globally? Yikes...
- thephyber 3y agoLOL. This comment rhymes with Steve Ballmer talking about the iPhone circus 2008. If the market likes the headset, there’s no reason it has to be limited to 100k units. Figure out how to make an average office employee 10% more effective and it pays for itself quickly.
- yieldcrv 3y ago100k rich users though
- wahnfrieden 3y agocompared with around 1 billion people with credit cards loaded into an iphone, 100 million macbook users vision pro apps need to return 1000x-10000x Leaving only longer term options for devs
- shmoogy 3y agoI don't think so - solidifying yourself as the first / best app in the new ecosystem can be absolutely worth it. Until Apple takes your app and includes it as a native functionality like those journal apps that are done come iOS 17.
- theshrike79 3y agoWhat kind of software would you sell to corporations or rich early adopters? We'll see in Q1/2024 when the Vision Pro comes out for real.
- wahnfrieden 3y agoapple enterprise is an even thinner slice of that
- MR4D 3y agoMaybe VP 2.0 already shows enough gains that this is a smart choice? Obviously this is just one of many cases.
- riffic 3y agookay - if it's a successful product then production can be scaled up. paywall and I'm not really interested beyond the headline anyway.
- cubefox 3y agoYou didn't miss anything.
- bananapub 3y agoit really is amazing to see so many people with such strong opinions about a device they've never used, entering a market that doesn't really yet exist, in a year. why does every thread about an Apple product end up just as a competition to see who can have the least informed but most negative take on whatever it is?
- jjaken 3y agoTimes like this are when people can only speculate. There’s too little information for anything else. The discussion is tautologically speculative. Some will be optimistic and others will be pessimistic and the only thing informing the disparity of those opinions is the authors’ personal perspectives and biases. You’re frustrated by something that is only natural.
- cdumler 3y agoFor all the people saying that this is dead on arrival or will never gain traction because it's too expensive, too bulky, too whatever: this is going succeed. The first watch serious sucked, but now it has all kinds of sensors and an always on display. A lot of those unique components (like the stereoscopic display) will get mass produced, which will bring down cost. Refinement will improve abilities. This particular headset? It is too expensive, too bulky, etc. But, I can tell you that in time any serious developer will have this. The only thing that will make me give up my ultra-wide monitor is this: an ultra-wide screen monitor that I can take anywhere.
- 11101010001100 3y agothe watch is a poor comparison. Is this the next iphone or not? That is the question.
- turnsout 3y agoIt doesn't need to be the next iPhone to be a great business. Famously, AirPods alone would be a Fortune 200 company (probably higher now).
- rchaud 3y agoThis assumes that an independent accessory vendor could somehow worm its way into Apple's multi-billion dollar marketing campaigns. Airpods sell primarily due to the value of being a 1st-party Apple accessory.
- dahwolf 3y agoI think the limiting factor of this device is apps/experiences. For this kind of money and discomfort you require mind blowing 3D experiences for it to be worth it. The problem with that is that those are impossibly hard/expensive to build by 3rd party developers. The risk is that you'll end up with endless 2D apps projected into 3D, or poorly made 3D apps similar to today's AR apps with shitty graphics.
- retskrad 3y agoBased on the articles I've read about this product, it might be the most advanced consumer tech we've ever seen. It would be a surprise if the production was a smooth sailing.
- kzrdude 3y agoIt's created seemingly for a high growth part of the cycle and not a recession. It might fail based on that timing?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- redtehartykle 3y agoApple was just valued at over 3T. NVIDIA spiked. Infrastructure Bill spending is coming through as I understand it. We're in a post-vid slump growth phase.
- smoldesu 3y agoGrowth, or bubble? I don't forsee a world where Apple paves their way to 5 trillion dollar valuation. Both of their highest-margin products (iPhone and App Store) are under threat and require immediate re-arranging. They're an easy bet because "big company strong", but have so many mounting issues to deal with on the global stage. It's extremely unlikely this period of growth lasts into the future. Nvidia is, as you said, a spike. One driven by AI but will probably be irrelevant in a few years. They're still great at engineering and CUDA will almost certainly continue to dominate, but the AI boom won't last forever. Once ASICs hit the scene it will be game over for GPGPU vendors, like it was with crypto in 2021. They'll still have gaming and industry markets to cater to, but their spiking days are numbered.
- redtehartykle 3y agoI thought a valuation of a company on a stock market was a reflection of its potential future profits. So with these recent influx of capital to me that's the market saying that it believes Nvidia and Apple are going to bring in profits in the future so here's money now to grow in order to capture those profits that come in later. I'm probably misunderstanding aspects here though.
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoWhile I'm sure Apple would prefer a full scale production run, limited availability for a new product often can create a demand frenzy that is overall beneficial as production is able to ramp up.
- Hamuko 3y agoI'm not sure what the demand frenzy is for an unproven $3500 VR headset with no killer app during an economic slowdown.
- Filligree 3y agoI'll be getting one to use for coding. One person does not a demand frenzy make, but having 'infinite' monitor space is a killer app to me.
- mmastrac 3y agoWhat does Apple's virtual monitor provide over the N existing virtual monitor solutions that you've waited this long? Honest question as this tech has been around for ages.
- smoldesu 3y agoIt's all about the branded polishing cloth, obviously: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MM6F3AM/A/polishing-cloth https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MM6F3AM/A/polishing-cloth
- crooked-v 3y agoHigher quality screens at a lower weight-on-your-head than anything else on the market.
- happymellon 3y ago1. There is only so big before you have to crane your neck, which existing screens can reach. 2. My existing monitor is already really light on my neck. I don't see any benefits.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ionwake 3y agoIs there a developer program that gets you early access to a head set ?
- crooked-v 3y agoThe headset is the early access product.
- jjallen 3y agoHow would anything else be the early access product?
- pavlov 3y agoIn the past Apple has sent out early access dev kits that were quite different from the final consumer product. When they switched from PowerPC to x86 in 2005, the dev kit was a Pentium 4 motherboard in a Power Mac G5 case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer_Transition_Kit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer_Transition_Kit Apple never used any Pentium CPUs in Macs except for this loaner model. The first Intel Mac desktop was an iMac, so completely different form factor.
- tomstuart 3y agoThere will be, yes: https://developer.apple.com/visionos/work-with-apple/ https://developer.apple.com/visionos/work-with-apple/
- m3kw9 3y agoBecause of supply chain issues
- solarreport 3y ago[dead]
- transmobility 3y ago[dead]
- transmobility 3y ago[dead]
- stow34 3y ago[dead]
- stow34 3y ago[dead]
- lovable4 3y ago[dead]
- lovable4 3y ago[dead]
- search43 3y ago[dead]
- search43 3y ago[dead]
- auditorjavelin 3y ago[dead]
- auditorjavelin 3y ago[dead]
- movement3 3y ago[dead]
- movement3 3y ago[dead]
- plumsfeliz 3y ago[dead]
- plumsfeliz 3y ago[dead]
- casanova1111 3y ago[dead]
- casanova1111 3y ago[dead]
- ducks13213 3y ago[dead]
- ducks13213 3y ago[dead]
- buddha345436 3y ago[dead]
- buddha345436 3y ago[dead]
- solarreport 3y ago[dead]
- woeful32 3y ago[dead]
- woeful32 3y ago[dead]
- sentenc123 3y ago[dead]
- sentenc123 3y ago[dead]
- whos564 3y ago[dead]
- whos564 3y ago[dead]
- pen98271 3y ago[dead]
- pen98271 3y ago[dead]
- hen987433 3y ago[dead]
- hen987433 3y ago[dead]
- ball823 3y ago[dead]
- ball823 3y ago[dead]
- phoneworld23 3y ago[dead]
- phoneworld23 3y ago[dead]
- hexa872 3y ago[dead]
- hexa872 3y ago[dead]
- theme8972 3y ago[dead]
- theme8972 3y ago[dead]
- provide9218 3y ago[dead]
- provide9218 3y ago[dead]
- anna022 3y ago[dead]
- anna022 3y ago[dead]
- honey212 3y ago[dead]
- honey212 3y ago[dead]
- oldmen983 3y ago[dead]
- oldmen983 3y ago[dead]
- henry871 3y ago[dead]
- henry871 3y ago[dead]
- mark09237 3y ago[dead]
- mark09237 3y ago[dead]
- stive923 3y ago[dead]
- stive923 3y ago[dead]
- bad89 3y ago[dead]
- bad89 3y ago[dead]
- boy8768 3y ago[dead]
- boy8768 3y ago[dead]
- micy87 3y ago[dead]
- micy87 3y ago[dead]
- helloguy77 3y ago[dead]
- helloguy77 3y ago[dead]
- friends34 3y ago[dead]
- friends34 3y ago[dead]
- crush0923 3y ago[dead]
- crush0923 3y ago[dead]
- world9871 3y ago[dead]
- world9871 3y ago[dead]
- Alexa871 3y ago[dead]
- Alexa871 3y ago[dead]
- crazy8923 3y ago[dead]
- crazy8923 3y ago[dead]
- earth9802 3y ago[dead]
- earth9802 3y ago[dead]
- smith9081 3y ago[dead]
- smith9081 3y ago[dead]
- clark9082 3y ago[dead]
- clark9082 3y ago[dead]
- bereb092 3y ago[dead]
- bereb092 3y ago[dead]
- kerim023 3y ago[dead]
- kerim023 3y ago[dead]
- maltem02 3y ago[dead]
- maltem02 3y ago[dead]
- computerboy891 3y ago[dead]
- computerboy891 3y ago[dead]
- appleboy9081 3y ago[dead]
- appleboy9081 3y ago[dead]
- mango912 3y ago[dead]
- mango912 3y ago[dead]
- tiger923 3y ago[dead]
- tiger923 3y ago[dead]
- annael32 3y ago[dead]
- annael32 3y ago[dead]
- data871 3y ago[dead]
- data871 3y ago[dead]
- cat81 3y ago[dead]
- cat81 3y ago[dead]
- doggy89021 3y ago[dead]
- doggy89021 3y ago[dead]
- chemist823 3y ago[dead]
- chemist823 3y ago[dead]
- tom901 3y ago[dead]
- thomas9012 3y ago[dead]
- thomas9012 3y ago[dead]
- lazyboy892 3y ago[dead]
- lazyboy892 3y ago[dead]
- van8902 3y ago[dead]
- van8902 3y ago[dead]
- robert8923 3y ago[dead]
- robert8923 3y ago[dead]
- practice8912 3y ago[dead]
- practice8912 3y ago[dead]
- jullie23 3y ago[dead]
- jullie23 3y ago[dead]
- anen2031 3y ago[dead]
- anen2031 3y ago[dead]
- tom901 3y ago[dead]
- skyzyx 3y agoFor this specific article, it’s 100% speculation. I’m not saying it isn’t true, but rather there is no evidence to support it. Ars Technica is also reporting on this topic this morning, and they are also missing evidence-backed sources. It’s all Wall Street analyst speculation. Read with several large, coarse, grains of salt.