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This is a push by the DoD to make American's believe in US military and intelligence superiority—only a supremely powerful government would be able to coverup t

This is a push by the DoD to make American's believe in US military and intelligence superiority—only a supremely powerful government would be able to coverup the existence of extraterrestrial life for 50+ years. World order is changing. China is a rising military power. People may even see foreign spy aircraft (e.g. Chinese weather balloons) over US airspace. The DoD would rather you believe it's aliens. This kind of propaganda works great on older boomers in particular because they've been conditioned to believe it all their life. The US military is not able to coverup something like a crashed alien spacecraft. They couldn't even stop a dozen men with box cutters from crashing planes into buildings. I would not be surprised in the least to find out that the 9/11 conspiracies were funded by the DoD—probably by the same people doing this nonsense now. Again, "they" would rather you believe in a supremely powerful government with space lasers than have their true incompetence unmasked.

abliefern 3y ago
This does not track for me at all. I'm sorry but why would anybody in the DOD have an incentive to "make Americans believe in US military and intelligence superiority"?
- sokoloff 3y ago
  To keep Americans happy about the over 3/4 Trillion dollars we spend on defense every year? “You spend a lot, but you get the best!” sounds a lot better than “You spend a lot, but we still suck!”
  - echelon 3y ago
    > “You spend a lot, but you get the best!” sounds a lot better than “You spend a lot, but we still suck!” This argument doesn't make any sense. The US military is better than the next top three militaries combined. The Ukraine war is showing the superiority of decades old Western tech.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      That doesn’t stop the DoD from wanting Americans to know that fact, because that’s how they’re funded.
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      It can show that the best still isn't good enough for some scenarios, including this scenario where unmanned aircraft are entering US airspace unimpeded. The US military might be better than the rest, but they were still defeated by poor people in the desert with some Casio watches and decades' old AKs. Similarly, it seems that small drones are another potential avenue of exploitation in asymmetric warfare.
    - CapricornNoble 3y ago
      > The US military is better than the next top three militaries combined. Partially due to institutional experience and economies of scale (for certain capabilities). We probably still exceed what the next top 3 powers (China, Russia, India, BTW) are spending in PPP terms, so it shouldn't be that surprising. > The Ukraine war is showing the superiority of decades old Western tech. For every video of HIMARS blowing up a Russian ammo depot, there's a video of Ka-52 helicopters popping M2 Bradleys from 5+ km away.[1] M777s were lauded for their accuracy....until they broke. [2] Ukrainian brigades have been lavishly equipped with Western armored vehicles and they've bounced off a brick wall of positively-ancient minefields and artillery, very similar to the defense-in-depth that the Soviets used to defeat the Germans at Kursk ...in 1943.[3] This conflict is so complex in terms of difficult-to-measure soft factors that are influencing the battlefield (training, maintenance, corruption, NATO ISR support, information operations/propaganda, etc.), that drawing conclusions about the merits of individual technical systems or especially the overall tech base of the two main powers (Russia vs "the West") as a whole is....unwise. [1]https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-armor-appears-to-have-a-russian-attack-helicopter-problem https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-armor-appears... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-breakdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-brea... [3]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/ukraine-counteroffensive.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/ukraine-coun...
    - themagician 3y ago
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  Because one of the purposes of flying surveillance aircraft in US airspace is psychological warfare. It sends the message that China/Russia/whoever can send whatever they want into US airspace and there's nothing that anyone, including the military, can do about it. It sows fear, uncertainty and doubt in both the public and even members of the military who can recognize the advanced capabilities of the armies they might have to fight. It sends the message that you are not safe at home, and those who are supposed to protect you can't. However, if people think they're aliens, that instead turns psychological warfare on its head and into something that inspires awe, wonder and possibility. No one is scared in the ways adversaries want them to be scared, and no one doubts the government is actually capable of handling threats from adversaries. "Aliens" as an explanation quells the potential for panic, versus adversaries successfully inducing the panic responses they desire. It also gives the opportunity for those who care too much about this to be painted as quacks.
  - nradov 3y ago
    I don't understand your comment. Russia has no real capability to fly surveillance aircraft over US territory. They can barely manage to fly to Syria without breaking down.
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      I said: > China/Russia/whoever As a placeholder for potential US adversaries who might have the motivation do something like this. If you don't like that I said Russia, ignore it and fill it in with China.
      - nradov 3y ago
        Come on, be serious. China can't even get the metallurgy right on turbine engines. Never mind flying saucers. If they are doing any airborne surveillance over the US homeland then it's either with spy balloons, or cheap little short-range drones launched by agents on the ground. https://www.airandspaceforces.com/china-air-force-may-take-a-hit-due-to-dependence-on-russian-aircraft-engines/ https://www.airandspaceforces.com/china-air-force-may-take-a...
- themagician 3y ago
  So many reasons. If you want unlimited funding, if you want people to join, if you want citizens to feel safe… you really want them to feel like the government is powerful. If people think their government is a joke they will treat it as a joke. You don't want people thinking that a dozen people with box cutters can fly planes into buildings. You don't want people thinking that "the greatest superpower in the world" can't defeat literal cave dwellers with ancient soviet era weaponry. You don't want people to know that China's military is much more advanced than the public is aware and they are routinely flying over US airspace undetected. You want people to feel safe and pay their taxes. You want your citizens to believe that the $2 trillion spend on defense every year goes to good use, creating the kind of military and intelligence apparatus that Hollywood portrays. We fund these types of propaganda campaigns for the same reasons we have military parades and air shows. We saw how well these kinds of "overwhelmingly powerful" government myths worked for both the Soviets and Axis powers in WW2 and we copied it. Every government chasing power and status wants its citizens to feel like they are the most powerful. China and Russia have similar kinds of myths. But you don't have to take my word for it. Please, continue to believe that spaceships from other planets have crashed and some elite division within the US government managed to retrieve them and keep it secret for 50+ years. Look past the failing state of our infrastructure and continue to believe that an alien species capable of interstellar travel is interested specifically in Americans, but "they" are keeping you from knowing the truth!
  - mustacheemperor 3y ago
    There's a vast gulf between "believing that spaceships from other planets have crashed and some elite division..." and subscribing to your theory which is so far only supported by you insisting to us what "you want" as a theoretical deep state government apparatus. From my perspective, it would seem like the widespread belief that terrorists could crash planes into buildings resulted in a lot of public money, enlistment, and support flowing into the US Military over the early 2000s. You're presenting a false choice between two conspiracy theories as the only ways to view this situation, which certainly doesn't make your particular conspiracy theory look any more credible.
    - 3y ago
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  > This does not track for me at all. I'm sorry but why would anybody in the DOD have an incentive to "make Americans believe in US military and intelligence superiority"? Especially when NATO hasn't fired a shot in Ukraine, but is supplying real-time intelligence to the AFU. US cold war era surplus + EW helped break an entire Russian army, and may yet break a second.
ribosometronome 3y ago
>only a supremely powerful government would be able to coverup the existence of extraterrestrial life for 50+ years. The allegations by David Grusch that set all this off included that there's been a decades long competition between various nations to collect these craft. From The Debrief Article >“His assertion concerning the existence of a terrestrial arms race occurring sub-rosa over the past eighty years focused on reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin is fundamentally correct, as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence,” said Karl Nell, the retired Army Colonel who worked with Grusch on the UAP Task Force. My take away had been that most of the allegations are effectively some level all the stuff we've always heard about UFOs has been true this whole time (e.g. Roswell). Essentially one of the worst kept secrets, ignored largely because of the implausibility rather than secrecy.
- themagician 3y ago
  It’s largely ignored because it’s not true. It’s shocking how many people believe in “Rosewell”. I mean… really? Really?! Only in America.
  - ribosometronome 3y ago
    Perhaps, but that isn't the point you or I were making. You're saying this is surfacing to fabricate American excellence and relied on the assumption that these claims are being made because 1) Only a superior nation could hide this and 2) only a superior nation could find them. What has been claimed was that it's barely hidden and a bunch of nations have been finding them. Your argument is against a straw man.
- throwaway743 3y ago
  Largely ignored due to the effectiveness of a decades long campaign to ridicule anything/one who questioned.
dekhn 3y ago
Are you really comparing China to the US in terms of military power? China just finished their first domestic aircraft carrier, and the current military hasn't really been in any major war. In the meantime, the US has continually maintained a state of readiness and nearly constant wars while modernizing its fleet. But you had to just go 9/11 Truther which means nobody here should really be paying attention to you.
- themagician 3y ago
  Is it really “9/11 truther” to believe the terrorists flew planes into buildings and the government was too incompetent to stop them? I believe that’s the most anti-truther take possible.
  - dekhn 3y ago
    I misread your comment.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  A "9/11 Truther" is somebody who disputes the 9/11 Commission's Report. themagician is doing the opposite; men with box cutters crashing planes into buildings is precisely what the 9/11 Commission Report says. Will realizing this change how you feel about the merit of his comment, or will you still feel the same way even though your original reason for feeling this way was completely backwards?
  - dekhn 3y ago
    It's likely because I misparsed the meaning of this sentence: "I would not be surprised in the least to find out that the 9/11 conspiracies were funded by the DoD" thinking that the person I was responding to was suggesting the DoD may have funded the terrorists (a "conspiracy" is a secret plan to do something unlawful). After re-reading, I see now the claim is that the DoD may have funded the truthers- which I know nothing about.
    - 3y ago
revscat 3y ago
> This is a push by the DoD to make American's believe in US military and intelligence superiority Do you have any evidence of this?

abliefern 3y ago

This does not track for me at all. I'm sorry but why would anybody in the DOD have an incentive to "make Americans believe in US military and intelligence superiority"?

sokoloff 3y ago
To keep Americans happy about the over 3/4 Trillion dollars we spend on defense every year? “You spend a lot, but you get the best!” sounds a lot better than “You spend a lot, but we still suck!”
- echelon 3y ago
  > “You spend a lot, but you get the best!” sounds a lot better than “You spend a lot, but we still suck!” This argument doesn't make any sense. The US military is better than the next top three militaries combined. The Ukraine war is showing the superiority of decades old Western tech.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    That doesn’t stop the DoD from wanting Americans to know that fact, because that’s how they’re funded.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    It can show that the best still isn't good enough for some scenarios, including this scenario where unmanned aircraft are entering US airspace unimpeded. The US military might be better than the rest, but they were still defeated by poor people in the desert with some Casio watches and decades' old AKs. Similarly, it seems that small drones are another potential avenue of exploitation in asymmetric warfare.
  - CapricornNoble 3y ago
    > The US military is better than the next top three militaries combined. Partially due to institutional experience and economies of scale (for certain capabilities). We probably still exceed what the next top 3 powers (China, Russia, India, BTW) are spending in PPP terms, so it shouldn't be that surprising. > The Ukraine war is showing the superiority of decades old Western tech. For every video of HIMARS blowing up a Russian ammo depot, there's a video of Ka-52 helicopters popping M2 Bradleys from 5+ km away.[1] M777s were lauded for their accuracy....until they broke. [2] Ukrainian brigades have been lavishly equipped with Western armored vehicles and they've bounced off a brick wall of positively-ancient minefields and artillery, very similar to the defense-in-depth that the Soviets used to defeat the Germans at Kursk ...in 1943.[3] This conflict is so complex in terms of difficult-to-measure soft factors that are influencing the battlefield (training, maintenance, corruption, NATO ISR support, information operations/propaganda, etc.), that drawing conclusions about the merits of individual technical systems or especially the overall tech base of the two main powers (Russia vs "the West") as a whole is....unwise. [1]https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-armor-appears-to-have-a-russian-attack-helicopter-problem https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-armor-appears... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-breakdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-brea... [3]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/ukraine-counteroffensive.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/ukraine-coun...
  - themagician 3y ago
heavyset_go 3y ago
Because one of the purposes of flying surveillance aircraft in US airspace is psychological warfare. It sends the message that China/Russia/whoever can send whatever they want into US airspace and there's nothing that anyone, including the military, can do about it. It sows fear, uncertainty and doubt in both the public and even members of the military who can recognize the advanced capabilities of the armies they might have to fight. It sends the message that you are not safe at home, and those who are supposed to protect you can't. However, if people think they're aliens, that instead turns psychological warfare on its head and into something that inspires awe, wonder and possibility. No one is scared in the ways adversaries want them to be scared, and no one doubts the government is actually capable of handling threats from adversaries. "Aliens" as an explanation quells the potential for panic, versus adversaries successfully inducing the panic responses they desire. It also gives the opportunity for those who care too much about this to be painted as quacks.
- nradov 3y ago
  I don't understand your comment. Russia has no real capability to fly surveillance aircraft over US territory. They can barely manage to fly to Syria without breaking down.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    I said: > China/Russia/whoever As a placeholder for potential US adversaries who might have the motivation do something like this. If you don't like that I said Russia, ignore it and fill it in with China.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Come on, be serious. China can't even get the metallurgy right on turbine engines. Never mind flying saucers. If they are doing any airborne surveillance over the US homeland then it's either with spy balloons, or cheap little short-range drones launched by agents on the ground. https://www.airandspaceforces.com/china-air-force-may-take-a-hit-due-to-dependence-on-russian-aircraft-engines/ https://www.airandspaceforces.com/china-air-force-may-take-a...
themagician 3y ago
So many reasons. If you want unlimited funding, if you want people to join, if you want citizens to feel safe… you really want them to feel like the government is powerful. If people think their government is a joke they will treat it as a joke. You don't want people thinking that a dozen people with box cutters can fly planes into buildings. You don't want people thinking that "the greatest superpower in the world" can't defeat literal cave dwellers with ancient soviet era weaponry. You don't want people to know that China's military is much more advanced than the public is aware and they are routinely flying over US airspace undetected. You want people to feel safe and pay their taxes. You want your citizens to believe that the $2 trillion spend on defense every year goes to good use, creating the kind of military and intelligence apparatus that Hollywood portrays. We fund these types of propaganda campaigns for the same reasons we have military parades and air shows. We saw how well these kinds of "overwhelmingly powerful" government myths worked for both the Soviets and Axis powers in WW2 and we copied it. Every government chasing power and status wants its citizens to feel like they are the most powerful. China and Russia have similar kinds of myths. But you don't have to take my word for it. Please, continue to believe that spaceships from other planets have crashed and some elite division within the US government managed to retrieve them and keep it secret for 50+ years. Look past the failing state of our infrastructure and continue to believe that an alien species capable of interstellar travel is interested specifically in Americans, but "they" are keeping you from knowing the truth!
- mustacheemperor 3y ago
  There's a vast gulf between "believing that spaceships from other planets have crashed and some elite division..." and subscribing to your theory which is so far only supported by you insisting to us what "you want" as a theoretical deep state government apparatus. From my perspective, it would seem like the widespread belief that terrorists could crash planes into buildings resulted in a lot of public money, enlistment, and support flowing into the US Military over the early 2000s. You're presenting a false choice between two conspiracy theories as the only ways to view this situation, which certainly doesn't make your particular conspiracy theory look any more credible.
  - 3y ago
red-iron-pine 3y ago
> This does not track for me at all. I'm sorry but why would anybody in the DOD have an incentive to "make Americans believe in US military and intelligence superiority"? Especially when NATO hasn't fired a shot in Ukraine, but is supplying real-time intelligence to the AFU. US cold war era surplus + EW helped break an entire Russian army, and may yet break a second.

ribosometronome 3y ago

>only a supremely powerful government would be able to coverup the existence of extraterrestrial life for 50+ years. The allegations by David Grusch that set all this off included that there's been a decades long competition between various nations to collect these craft. From The Debrief Article >“His assertion concerning the existence of a terrestrial arms race occurring sub-rosa over the past eighty years focused on reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin is fundamentally correct, as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence,” said Karl Nell, the retired Army Colonel who worked with Grusch on the UAP Task Force. My take away had been that most of the allegations are effectively some level all the stuff we've always heard about UFOs has been true this whole time (e.g. Roswell). Essentially one of the worst kept secrets, ignored largely because of the implausibility rather than secrecy.

themagician 3y ago
It’s largely ignored because it’s not true. It’s shocking how many people believe in “Rosewell”. I mean… really? Really?! Only in America.
- ribosometronome 3y ago
  Perhaps, but that isn't the point you or I were making. You're saying this is surfacing to fabricate American excellence and relied on the assumption that these claims are being made because 1) Only a superior nation could hide this and 2) only a superior nation could find them. What has been claimed was that it's barely hidden and a bunch of nations have been finding them. Your argument is against a straw man.
throwaway743 3y ago
Largely ignored due to the effectiveness of a decades long campaign to ridicule anything/one who questioned.

dekhn 3y ago

Are you really comparing China to the US in terms of military power? China just finished their first domestic aircraft carrier, and the current military hasn't really been in any major war. In the meantime, the US has continually maintained a state of readiness and nearly constant wars while modernizing its fleet. But you had to just go 9/11 Truther which means nobody here should really be paying attention to you.

themagician 3y ago
Is it really “9/11 truther” to believe the terrorists flew planes into buildings and the government was too incompetent to stop them? I believe that’s the most anti-truther take possible.
- dekhn 3y ago
  I misread your comment.
mcpackieh 3y ago
A "9/11 Truther" is somebody who disputes the 9/11 Commission's Report. themagician is doing the opposite; men with box cutters crashing planes into buildings is precisely what the 9/11 Commission Report says. Will realizing this change how you feel about the merit of his comment, or will you still feel the same way even though your original reason for feeling this way was completely backwards?
- dekhn 3y ago
  It's likely because I misparsed the meaning of this sentence: "I would not be surprised in the least to find out that the 9/11 conspiracies were funded by the DoD" thinking that the person I was responding to was suggesting the DoD may have funded the terrorists (a "conspiracy" is a secret plan to do something unlawful). After re-reading, I see now the claim is that the DoD may have funded the truthers- which I know nothing about.
  - 3y ago

revscat 3y ago

> This is a push by the DoD to make American's believe in US military and intelligence superiority Do you have any evidence of this?