7 ms·

What is driving the high suicide rate among farmers? (2022)

39 points by dmbche 3y ago

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
Could exposure to fertilizers be a factor? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/high-rates-of-suicide-depression-linked-to-farmers-use-of-pesticides/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/high-rates-of-sui...
- thephyber 3y ago
  Pesticide is not fertilizer. But your point is valid. I have a cousin that farmed in the mid 20th century when they used chemicals like DDT on the farm. He is alive, but his body is falling apart. He is lucky that he switched to commercial/retail rather than trying to tough out a farmer’s life in his 80s.
  - Choco31415 3y ago
    How do we know that current day pesticides are safe as well? What sort of testing, etc happens?
    - thephyber 3y ago
      it depends what you mean when you say “we”. The USA tends to assume everything is legal until there is evidence of harm. The EU tends to take a more precautionary stance and is more likely to claim harm with a lower barrier of proof. Testing does happen, but the majority of it is done by the same corporations that have a financial interest in minimizing the negative results.
- zonkerdonker 3y ago
  Fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/high-rates-of-suicide-depression-linked-to-farmers-use-of-pesticides/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/high-rates-of-sui...), leaded fuels...farmers are almost constantly exposed to some of the nastiest stuff manufactured. Round-up got caught in lawsuits mostly because they distribute to anyone, you think that amount of scrutiny is going toward every herbicide on this list? https://www.clemson.edu/cafls/research/weeds/management/herbicide-list.html https://www.clemson.edu/cafls/research/weeds/management/herb... I'm not prone to fear mongering, but I can't imagine companies like Dow chemical and Monsanto putting much cash into long term mental health effects of exposure to any of their huge library of agro chemicals. That's not even considering all of the other social and health care factors, as mentioned in the article. Honestly I'm surprised the rate is only twice as high as the average occupation.
ren_engineer 3y ago
article somewhat addressed it but I'd say demographics are the biggest factor, with an older male population and high gun ownership rate The other issue is stress, family farmers are now competing directly with foreign government and hedge fund backed corporate farms, so it's almost impossible to compete when they can just write off losses. And getting squeezed by monopolies for seed production and selling to monopolies for meat processing and grain buying. Many are working on land owned for generations and feel the pressure to not fail, I know several who became alcoholics as a result of having to sell their land after going broke, you can tell they feel a lot of shame over it due to their identity being so tied to what they do
- bamfly 3y ago
  > article somewhat addressed it but I'd say demographics are the biggest factor, with an older male population and high gun ownership rate Right, how much of this is explained simply by what we'd expect to see in a population of older men with a ~100% rate of easy access to firearms, compared with the rate of easy access in the general population of folks otherwise fitting that demographic? [EDIT] For those not familiar with these kinds of areas, this isn't because farmers are especially likely to be "gun nuts" (maybe they are? I kinda doubt it though, probably not at a rate much higher than the general population, anyway) but because hunting and recreational shooting are more popular in rural areas (citation needed, but I'd be very surprised if that's not true) and because even farmers who don't engage in those hobbies tend to have one or more firearms for varmint control, protection from dangerous animals, or simply because they inherited or were gifted some, if nothing else. I'd expect that nearly 100% of US farmers could have a loaded firearm in-hand within an hour, if they wanted to, without having to put much thought into how to get it.
  - dageshi 3y ago
    Nearly every farmer who has livestock is likely to have a gun to put animals out of their misery should it be necessary.
    - bamfly 3y ago
hendler 3y ago
I grew up in rural Maine and helped on several types of farms myself. Isolation (rural, children leave), low or fluctuating profits (price of diesel, fertilizer, feed etc), high stress and working hours, disconnection and exploitation (industrial seed and fertilizer, predatory distributors or suppliers) in some practices. Not an easy profession or way of life unless it is a hobby.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  I know a family from Oxford County that left around 1900. First lose the farm, move to the Coast, split up after that. My impression is that the fields are very low yield compared to the massive acres to the East. Once they were connected by rail, a lot of history stopped right there. I resent the word "hobby" though, since it is essentially living on the land in some way, with a time frame that allows for raising children. The urban centers are the end of the line even for modern people.
farmguy 3y ago
Isolation, financial pressure, lack of control, fear of being the generation that fails. Almost impossible to buy your way into farming as an individual business strategy (10k/acre in the midwest, need ~500 acres to support a family). So chances are if you farm your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. did to. There's immense pressure on each generation to not be the one that lets the family legacy die. Our fields are named after the previous families that owned them. Most failed because someone died unexpectedly without putting their land in a trust, or the next generation simply doesn't want to farm (for good reason). Those that do survive are very game of thrones. "That field belongs to the Dicksons, that one is the Hoechs - they have 2 sons working with them now". Land auctions/purchases go through a lot of backroom dealing where patriarchs from various families horse trade. It's a very interesting subculture of the midwest.
- immibis 3y ago
  So, basically, capitalism is killing the hand that feeds us
  - prottog 3y ago
    How does that follow?
    - mihaic 3y ago
      Race-to-the-bottom capitalism forces farmers to fight on price, since they can only sell in bulk to big enterprises, squeazing out their profits. Farming associations actually help here, since they can negociate like a union, but not sure how much the US would approve of this "communism".
      - Ekaros 3y ago
        Trust are good and even needed for the producers. Just look at OPEC... It would be lot worse for them if they did not manage supply. Same goes for farmers if they can't control the sell price.
  - 3y ago
Animats 3y ago
"This process of Creative Destruction is the essential fact about capitalism." - Joseph Schumpeter
orwin 3y ago
In my country, farmers (owners and workers) are twice as likely to kill themselves than the average citizen. That said, their is some risk factors: if you're on a conventional farmhouse as either an employee or a small owner (less than 6 employees), and under a Fnsea-owned (or affiliated) 'co-operative', tough luck. If you're working with an old co-op (family-owned) or one that work with traditional or conservative farming, you will survive the hard work. I have family on all side on this (I think my mother inherited part of a wineyard exploited by cousins), and a lot of friends on the 'hippy farmer' side (with very different experience/exploitation for each one of them), and to me, the co-op is at least 50% of the issue. They are your coworkers, sometimes they own your debt, they are your point of contact to ask around for help when you have land-specific issues, or when you have to find parts for your pumps, engines or whatever. They can also push you to indebt yourself (to them) with their 'rentability' advices. And BTW it's called co-op but it's rarely a worker's cooperative. When it is, you're in luck, but oftentimes it's a business.
- sam_lowry_ 3y ago
  France, if anyone wonders.
chrisbrandow 3y ago
Hard to say without more of a time series, but the isolation idea makes a lot of sense to me, especially because the number of farmers/workers per acre has steadily dropped for decades. So what was once a fairly communal occupation is now fairly isolated, so the financial pressures, etc are less shared.
cosmiccatnap 3y ago
This assumes that the suicide rate isn't increasing among a number of people in various different walks of life. Things are not going well people and farmers just know that all too we'll.
killjoywashere 3y ago
I grew up in Kansas and Nebraska, still have family in small towns there. In addition to the bleak outlook, high risk of failure, stress, physical labor, etc, I would submit this is ground zero for the phenomenon of cultural dispair. Americas secular ideals were Davy Crockett and Abe Lincoln: physically strong, white, male, working the land. Now's it a hipster with a MacBook repping for the right causes. That cosmopolitan knowledge economy may well be everyone's future, but it's not what they know, or something they even see a path too.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  hipsters are not reproducing, and showing high levels of anxiety disorders here in the City, honestly. Not sure what to say about culture, America is having troubles that way. Social media has done a lot of self-inflicted harm on growing minds and bodies in the last 15 years, as is well-documented. Lastly, the effect of low-cost fossil fuel transport for ordinary daily items, cannot be overstated. Farms within 100 miles fail, while common fruits and vegetables can travel more than 1000 miles and somehow still be cheaper? things are not going well.
  - dan_quixote 3y ago
    I wonder how much damage has been done in the name of upholding "rugged individualism". We willingly isolate ourselves and refuse to ask for help when we need it while the problem just sprirals.
monetus 3y ago
Mute calves from warhad are we Watching the plunder of mother's milk Drenching earth drop by drop with our sweat Yielding pearls yet our babies in hunger fret Cotton crop watered by our sweat Knotting 17 tears on our clothes We farm with our sweat On the pyre our bodies will only half burn No money to buy the wood Reins of our lives always in the hands of others While grinding flour The floors will stain with our blood --- Shri Krishna Kalamb
metal_am 3y ago
Farming is a hard life. There are a lot of sources of stress: Time - If something needs to be harvested immediately, it's not uncommon to work through the nights using the lights on the equipment. There's no such thing as set hours. You're constantly on the job. Finances - Equipment is incredible expensive and is financed via debt but margins are low. You can end up just trying to pay off the loans. That's not even mentioning the land requirements (either owned or leased). Uncertainty - You can't control the weather. You can't control the price of corn or soybeans. Equipment breaks down. These issues can easily snowball into affecting entire operations.
arrjayh 3y ago
Can't add much more than what's already been said here but I'm glad to see more presence of this on the internet. Grew up in IL, this was largely unspoken + alcohol and drug abuse.
dathinab 3y ago
despair
inasio 3y ago
My local hackspace got a call from a dating show (Farming for love), looking to see if anyone was interested. They were quite insistent, somehow figured out that there might be a lot of overlap (hacking, fixing things, etc)
m0llusk 3y ago
Instead of subsidizing agricultural production which causes weirdly imbalanced incentives we might try subsidizing the practice of keeping 1% of the land in a wild state to encourage ecological diversity. That would keep a small channel open for any big land holders which in many areas is mostly farmers. It would also help with the problems caused by large areas with monoculture agriculture and no wild places for animals to seek refuge. Considering farming critical and having some kind of census like information gathering interface could be a way to indirectly offer mental health care services without the stigma.
- ren_engineer 3y ago
  >we might try subsidizing the practice of keeping 1% of the land in a wild state to encourage ecological diversity it already exists, it's called CRP - https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/conservation-reserve-program/index https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-... I think it could be expanded with bipartisan support if they tied it to some of the climate change programs like carbon offsets. Pay people to plant trees on their land
1MachineElf 3y ago
I play the game CyberPunk 2077 and wonder how many things I see in it will become a reality in the future. There are "farms" you can go to (technologically advanced and under corporate control) where you can see a farmer's commune surrounded by gravesites. Some farmers are seen mourning at the graves while others are living in squalor and desperation. Being totally disconnected from farming in the real world, the reality this article paints was very sobering. It reminded me of other harrowing stories about our present-day food supply. Slave labor, torture, and murder in the Thai seafood industry. https://ejfoundation.org/reports/thailands-seafood-slaves https://ejfoundation.org/reports/thailands-seafood-slaves
sparrish 3y ago
I'm from rural Colorado and have known several farmers and ranchers that have died by suicide. Most were quite wealthy and very lonely. The inability to find a woman who is willing to be a farming/ranching wife has left them with no companionship and no heirs to their farms. I conjecture that is what brought on the despair. Where did all the young women of the community go? To college, to get their art degrees and hang out in coffee shops. I don't blame the young women. Farming and ranching is a hard life and their wealthy farming/ranching daddy's can pay for it. But it leaves the one son who stayed on the farm lonely. A few I know have resorted to mail-order brides from Asia, South America, or eastern Europe. Cross-cultural marriage is difficult but easier than being alone, I suppose.
richardjam73 3y ago
Sometimes I dream about becoming a farmer but then I always snap back into realisation of how incredibly stressful it is to own a farm.
RecycledEle 3y ago
Big corporations and big government are screwing small farmers, driving the suicide rate.

39 points by dmbche 3y ago

Could exposure to fertilizers be a factor? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/high-rates-of-suicide-depression-linked-to-farmers-use-of-pesticides/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/high-rates-of-sui...

thephyber 3y ago
Pesticide is not fertilizer. But your point is valid. I have a cousin that farmed in the mid 20th century when they used chemicals like DDT on the farm. He is alive, but his body is falling apart. He is lucky that he switched to commercial/retail rather than trying to tough out a farmer’s life in his 80s.
- Choco31415 3y ago
  How do we know that current day pesticides are safe as well? What sort of testing, etc happens?
  - thephyber 3y ago
    it depends what you mean when you say “we”. The USA tends to assume everything is legal until there is evidence of harm. The EU tends to take a more precautionary stance and is more likely to claim harm with a lower barrier of proof. Testing does happen, but the majority of it is done by the same corporations that have a financial interest in minimizing the negative results.
zonkerdonker 3y ago
Fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/high-rates-of-suicide-depression-linked-to-farmers-use-of-pesticides/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/high-rates-of-sui...), leaded fuels...farmers are almost constantly exposed to some of the nastiest stuff manufactured. Round-up got caught in lawsuits mostly because they distribute to anyone, you think that amount of scrutiny is going toward every herbicide on this list? https://www.clemson.edu/cafls/research/weeds/management/herbicide-list.html https://www.clemson.edu/cafls/research/weeds/management/herb... I'm not prone to fear mongering, but I can't imagine companies like Dow chemical and Monsanto putting much cash into long term mental health effects of exposure to any of their huge library of agro chemicals. That's not even considering all of the other social and health care factors, as mentioned in the article. Honestly I'm surprised the rate is only twice as high as the average occupation.

ren_engineer 3y ago

article somewhat addressed it but I'd say demographics are the biggest factor, with an older male population and high gun ownership rate The other issue is stress, family farmers are now competing directly with foreign government and hedge fund backed corporate farms, so it's almost impossible to compete when they can just write off losses. And getting squeezed by monopolies for seed production and selling to monopolies for meat processing and grain buying. Many are working on land owned for generations and feel the pressure to not fail, I know several who became alcoholics as a result of having to sell their land after going broke, you can tell they feel a lot of shame over it due to their identity being so tied to what they do

bamfly 3y ago
> article somewhat addressed it but I'd say demographics are the biggest factor, with an older male population and high gun ownership rate Right, how much of this is explained simply by what we'd expect to see in a population of older men with a ~100% rate of easy access to firearms, compared with the rate of easy access in the general population of folks otherwise fitting that demographic? [EDIT] For those not familiar with these kinds of areas, this isn't because farmers are especially likely to be "gun nuts" (maybe they are? I kinda doubt it though, probably not at a rate much higher than the general population, anyway) but because hunting and recreational shooting are more popular in rural areas (citation needed, but I'd be very surprised if that's not true) and because even farmers who don't engage in those hobbies tend to have one or more firearms for varmint control, protection from dangerous animals, or simply because they inherited or were gifted some, if nothing else. I'd expect that nearly 100% of US farmers could have a loaded firearm in-hand within an hour, if they wanted to, without having to put much thought into how to get it.
- dageshi 3y ago
  Nearly every farmer who has livestock is likely to have a gun to put animals out of their misery should it be necessary.
  - bamfly 3y ago

hendler 3y ago

I grew up in rural Maine and helped on several types of farms myself. Isolation (rural, children leave), low or fluctuating profits (price of diesel, fertilizer, feed etc), high stress and working hours, disconnection and exploitation (industrial seed and fertilizer, predatory distributors or suppliers) in some practices. Not an easy profession or way of life unless it is a hobby.

mistrial9 3y ago
I know a family from Oxford County that left around 1900. First lose the farm, move to the Coast, split up after that. My impression is that the fields are very low yield compared to the massive acres to the East. Once they were connected by rail, a lot of history stopped right there. I resent the word "hobby" though, since it is essentially living on the land in some way, with a time frame that allows for raising children. The urban centers are the end of the line even for modern people.

farmguy 3y ago

Isolation, financial pressure, lack of control, fear of being the generation that fails. Almost impossible to buy your way into farming as an individual business strategy (10k/acre in the midwest, need ~500 acres to support a family). So chances are if you farm your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. did to. There's immense pressure on each generation to not be the one that lets the family legacy die. Our fields are named after the previous families that owned them. Most failed because someone died unexpectedly without putting their land in a trust, or the next generation simply doesn't want to farm (for good reason). Those that do survive are very game of thrones. "That field belongs to the Dicksons, that one is the Hoechs - they have 2 sons working with them now". Land auctions/purchases go through a lot of backroom dealing where patriarchs from various families horse trade. It's a very interesting subculture of the midwest.

immibis 3y ago
So, basically, capitalism is killing the hand that feeds us
- prottog 3y ago
  How does that follow?
  - mihaic 3y ago
    Race-to-the-bottom capitalism forces farmers to fight on price, since they can only sell in bulk to big enterprises, squeazing out their profits. Farming associations actually help here, since they can negociate like a union, but not sure how much the US would approve of this "communism".
    - Ekaros 3y ago
      Trust are good and even needed for the producers. Just look at OPEC... It would be lot worse for them if they did not manage supply. Same goes for farmers if they can't control the sell price.
- 3y ago

Animats 3y ago

"This process of Creative Destruction is the essential fact about capitalism." - Joseph Schumpeter

orwin 3y ago

In my country, farmers (owners and workers) are twice as likely to kill themselves than the average citizen. That said, their is some risk factors: if you're on a conventional farmhouse as either an employee or a small owner (less than 6 employees), and under a Fnsea-owned (or affiliated) 'co-operative', tough luck. If you're working with an old co-op (family-owned) or one that work with traditional or conservative farming, you will survive the hard work. I have family on all side on this (I think my mother inherited part of a wineyard exploited by cousins), and a lot of friends on the 'hippy farmer' side (with very different experience/exploitation for each one of them), and to me, the co-op is at least 50% of the issue. They are your coworkers, sometimes they own your debt, they are your point of contact to ask around for help when you have land-specific issues, or when you have to find parts for your pumps, engines or whatever. They can also push you to indebt yourself (to them) with their 'rentability' advices. And BTW it's called co-op but it's rarely a worker's cooperative. When it is, you're in luck, but oftentimes it's a business.

sam_lowry_ 3y ago
France, if anyone wonders.

chrisbrandow 3y ago

Hard to say without more of a time series, but the isolation idea makes a lot of sense to me, especially because the number of farmers/workers per acre has steadily dropped for decades. So what was once a fairly communal occupation is now fairly isolated, so the financial pressures, etc are less shared.

cosmiccatnap 3y ago

This assumes that the suicide rate isn't increasing among a number of people in various different walks of life. Things are not going well people and farmers just know that all too we'll.

killjoywashere 3y ago

I grew up in Kansas and Nebraska, still have family in small towns there. In addition to the bleak outlook, high risk of failure, stress, physical labor, etc, I would submit this is ground zero for the phenomenon of cultural dispair. Americas secular ideals were Davy Crockett and Abe Lincoln: physically strong, white, male, working the land. Now's it a hipster with a MacBook repping for the right causes. That cosmopolitan knowledge economy may well be everyone's future, but it's not what they know, or something they even see a path too.

mistrial9 3y ago
hipsters are not reproducing, and showing high levels of anxiety disorders here in the City, honestly. Not sure what to say about culture, America is having troubles that way. Social media has done a lot of self-inflicted harm on growing minds and bodies in the last 15 years, as is well-documented. Lastly, the effect of low-cost fossil fuel transport for ordinary daily items, cannot be overstated. Farms within 100 miles fail, while common fruits and vegetables can travel more than 1000 miles and somehow still be cheaper? things are not going well.
- dan_quixote 3y ago
  I wonder how much damage has been done in the name of upholding "rugged individualism". We willingly isolate ourselves and refuse to ask for help when we need it while the problem just sprirals.

monetus 3y ago

Mute calves from warhad are we Watching the plunder of mother's milk Drenching earth drop by drop with our sweat Yielding pearls yet our babies in hunger fret Cotton crop watered by our sweat Knotting 17 tears on our clothes We farm with our sweat On the pyre our bodies will only half burn No money to buy the wood Reins of our lives always in the hands of others While grinding flour The floors will stain with our blood --- Shri Krishna Kalamb

metal_am 3y ago

Farming is a hard life. There are a lot of sources of stress: Time - If something needs to be harvested immediately, it's not uncommon to work through the nights using the lights on the equipment. There's no such thing as set hours. You're constantly on the job. Finances - Equipment is incredible expensive and is financed via debt but margins are low. You can end up just trying to pay off the loans. That's not even mentioning the land requirements (either owned or leased). Uncertainty - You can't control the weather. You can't control the price of corn or soybeans. Equipment breaks down. These issues can easily snowball into affecting entire operations.

arrjayh 3y ago

Can't add much more than what's already been said here but I'm glad to see more presence of this on the internet. Grew up in IL, this was largely unspoken + alcohol and drug abuse.

dathinab 3y ago

despair

inasio 3y ago

My local hackspace got a call from a dating show (Farming for love), looking to see if anyone was interested. They were quite insistent, somehow figured out that there might be a lot of overlap (hacking, fixing things, etc)

m0llusk 3y ago

Instead of subsidizing agricultural production which causes weirdly imbalanced incentives we might try subsidizing the practice of keeping 1% of the land in a wild state to encourage ecological diversity. That would keep a small channel open for any big land holders which in many areas is mostly farmers. It would also help with the problems caused by large areas with monoculture agriculture and no wild places for animals to seek refuge. Considering farming critical and having some kind of census like information gathering interface could be a way to indirectly offer mental health care services without the stigma.

ren_engineer 3y ago
>we might try subsidizing the practice of keeping 1% of the land in a wild state to encourage ecological diversity it already exists, it's called CRP - https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/conservation-reserve-program/index https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-... I think it could be expanded with bipartisan support if they tied it to some of the climate change programs like carbon offsets. Pay people to plant trees on their land

1MachineElf 3y ago

I play the game CyberPunk 2077 and wonder how many things I see in it will become a reality in the future. There are "farms" you can go to (technologically advanced and under corporate control) where you can see a farmer's commune surrounded by gravesites. Some farmers are seen mourning at the graves while others are living in squalor and desperation. Being totally disconnected from farming in the real world, the reality this article paints was very sobering. It reminded me of other harrowing stories about our present-day food supply. Slave labor, torture, and murder in the Thai seafood industry. https://ejfoundation.org/reports/thailands-seafood-slaves https://ejfoundation.org/reports/thailands-seafood-slaves

sparrish 3y ago

I'm from rural Colorado and have known several farmers and ranchers that have died by suicide. Most were quite wealthy and very lonely. The inability to find a woman who is willing to be a farming/ranching wife has left them with no companionship and no heirs to their farms. I conjecture that is what brought on the despair. Where did all the young women of the community go? To college, to get their art degrees and hang out in coffee shops. I don't blame the young women. Farming and ranching is a hard life and their wealthy farming/ranching daddy's can pay for it. But it leaves the one son who stayed on the farm lonely. A few I know have resorted to mail-order brides from Asia, South America, or eastern Europe. Cross-cultural marriage is difficult but easier than being alone, I suppose.

richardjam73 3y ago

Sometimes I dream about becoming a farmer but then I always snap back into realisation of how incredibly stressful it is to own a farm.

RecycledEle 3y ago

Big corporations and big government are screwing small farmers, driving the suicide rate.