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ESA really needs to work on how they present this kind of thing. Igniting a brand new rocket engine is a sensational event - I would have expected at least a vi
by frederikvs 3y ago
ESA really needs to work on how they present this kind of thing. Igniting a brand new rocket engine is a sensational event - I would have expected at least a video of the full 12 second burn, from a good viewpoint. Ideally from multiple camera angles.
But we just get one still image, taken from what looks like the worst position.
ESA is doing really cool stuff, but they're doing a bad job of convincing people that they're doing cool stuff.
- booi 3y agothis is definitely something SpaceX does right. Even the most mundane launches is a multi-hour professional production with high quality cameras in multiple angles.. even when the thing explodes it feels like it went well.
- palata 3y ago> this is definitely something SpaceX does right. To me (european), I don't like how SpaceX shows off. The technology is cool though, but when I see their kind of communication, to me it sounds like "US marketing". So yeah... cultural thing maybe.
- Aeolun 3y agoOn the balance, I much prefer having the stream to not having it. I can always turn the sound/commentary off.
- reaperducer 3y agoI don't think of it as showing off. I think of it as documenting for posterity. We're at an inflection point when it comes to space exploration. Ar this rate, future generations will have days of video and documentation of the accomplishments in America, and a footnote along the lines of "Europe did some things, too. Visit the sub-basement of a library in an office building in Paris for more information."
- palata 3y agoNot sure who will spend days watching the same rocket takeoff and land :-). Also at this rate, future generations will have to focus on surviving with much less fossil fuels (we're passed peak oil), in a world that basically wants to kill them due to global warming. Chances are that days of video of the accomplishments of the generation that actively destroyed their world (while being fully aware of it) won't be their main concern.
- panick21_ 3y agoRockets are one of the things where we simply have to use fossil fuels, and its a drop in the bucket. The resulting services and sats actually help in any reasonable climate change strategy. > Not sure who will spend days watching the same rocket takeoff and land :-). Here is the thing. Anytime can be the first time for somebody. If you don't make an effort to show everything you do, nobody will ever know you exists. Yes some space obsessed people will watch everything, and that's fine also. But you never get those people if they don't see something first time. I am European too and I like how transparent SpaceX is, and they don't even have to be. Arianespace literally tried to hide for 1 year that they had major issues with Ariane 5. When asked why it wasn't launching they were basically saying 'everything is ok'. But eventually journalist got wind off the fact that there were major issues in the fairings. The culture of secrecy and non-transparency has done nothing but harm to European space flight. Its not barging to show a video of a test fire or a test launch.
- palata 3y ago> Rockets are one of the things where we simply have to use fossil fuels, and its a drop in the bucket. Well it's more than you may think (don't take only the fuel for the flight, but consider the whole construction of the thing). But more importantly, they are making space a business. The first plane was a drop in a bucket, but it enabled modern aviation. If SpaceX hits their target of 10M per flight... rich people will go have lunch in space. > The resulting services and sats actually help in any reasonable climate change strategy. What? I very strongly disagree. But I won't elaborate more than you did.
- FeepingCreature 3y agoEuropean here, I don't get this at all. SpaceX is fine.
- palata 3y agoSure, and that's fine. I was just sharing my feeling :)
- ragebol 3y agoIt does seem American to me (as a European) too. But i like it and it works. We seem really bad at this kind of PR at this side of the pond
- GuB-42 3y agoESA maybe does too little, but SpaceX does too much, at least to my taste. Looking at SpaceX streams sometimes feel more like a sporting event than the coverage of a space mission. I mean, is it really necessary to cheer at every successful phase of the launch even though these are pretty much nailed down, that the mission is still underway, and that the hard part (like the landing when it wasn't a routine thing) is up ahead? For me, NASA is the best. They show the things as they are, without trying to pump up the hype. I mean, rocket launches are maybe the most awe inspiring thing humanity can do, alongside nuclear explosions (imagine nuclear rockets if we ever make them). Some of the most iconic footage from NASA is technical footage, not originally intended for the public, so really, let the thing speak for itself, no need for SpaceX cheerleaders.
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoI wonder if they use canned cheering, or get/hire a claque.
- ttepasse 3y agoAnother European here who is forced to mute the SpaceX streams because of a heavy feeling of cringe on behalf of the on-screen people. But on the pro side: SpaceX was the pioneer with on-screen graphics, including the dynamic timeline displaying, where we are in the flight. I deeply appreciate that, not just for making it easier to mute the lunatics and the clapping. It’s good information design.
- throw_pm23 3y agoIt is a US/Europe difference in attitude that can be seen across all fields.
- adventured 3y agoPerhaps, however I would expect they would understand the immense value of selling it to the European public by properly showing them what they're paying for. Getting the European public excited about space is half the battle (for funding), NASA has understood that for well over half a century. Somehow ESA is still oblivious (which helps explain their budget).
- noselasd 3y agoAnd that’s the difference
- goethes_kind 3y agoThey don't need to sell it to the public because the public has less than zero say. They need to sell it to the funding agencies and that is what they are doing. Also, the bombastic American style marketing comes off as insincere to most of us.
- Dylan16807 3y agoA video (or two) of the rocket surely isn't too bombastic?
- roarcher 3y agoThey're being paid by the public to build something. Showing them that it actually works is "bombastic American style marketing"? In the US we would call it accountability. Modesty is great and all, but this comes across more like "thanks for the taxes, now fuck off".
- xyzzyz 3y agoYou’re right in principle, this is indeed how it should work in theory. In practice, though, it’s all very much "thanks for the taxes, now fuck off", and US is not much better here.
- breput 3y agoThey do a similar thing for their launch webcasts - they barely show or talk about the rocket and focus mostly on the pan-European cooperation aspects. It might be a cultural thing but they also know who is paying their bills. Always. Show. The. Rocket.
- localplume 3y ago[dead]
- carstenhag 3y agoOn the other hand, I was at CERN once, and they were just giving us slides like no tomorrow (and of course also a tour). If I was a billionaire (or a politician) I would have given them lots of money
- n40487171 3y agoThe cern tour is really cool. They actually take you to see the instruments where possible. Got to see some huuuge copper busbars that they use to dump current from the electromagnets. And got to see some sections of the main tube that were in the repair area (maybe they were display units).
- voidfunc 3y agoI think it's a European cultural thing. They're not good at selling sizzle.
- hcks 3y agoBeing 10 years behind technologically is surely a European cultural thing. Besides, what’s there to sell? An experiment SpaceX did back in 2016?
- martin8412 3y agoYea.. What SpaceX does is straight up illegal in the EU. For the good of everyone.
- DiggyJohnson 3y agoWhat? ESA seems very interested in reusable launch vehicles as of late.
- martin8412 3y agoSpaceX keeps breaking the law left and right. They're currently being sued for contaminating a wildlife sanctuary, and they're constantly at odds with the FAA. Not to mention various state agencies.
- DiggyJohnson 3y agoThey have a pretty good relationship with the FAA. I hate to be so blunt but you do not have enough knowledge of this topic to be overstating like such.
- panick21_ 3y agoAnybdoy can sue at any time. It meaningless and does not mean a law was broken.
- FeepingCreature 3y ago
- aeroman 3y agoThe PR part also applies to Earth Observation Satellites (ESA and EUMETSAT). (Almost) any time you see a wide area picture of the Earth from Space (particularly around a weather event), it comes from NASA's MODIS instrument [e.g. 0]. The European (approximate) equivalent, AATSR, had a lot of really nice scientific qualities, but it was missing a blue channel, meaning that the 'true-colour' images it produced always had a blue tint to the clouds. There was a similar problem with the European geostationary satellite imager (SEVIRI) [1]. Scientifically, SEVIRI was incredibly useful (and far in advance of the American equivalent at the time), but the lack of a blue channel meant that it was never really used for those shots that made it onto the news (and neither was AATSR). When you have spent multiple billions on a satellite programme, you generally want the public to see it. I remember being told at one point that this was considered such an issue that the Europeans would 'never launch a satellite without a blue channel again' - although that might be overstating it a little. [0] - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11901718 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11901718 [1] - https://www.cloudsandclimate.com/blog/got_the_blues/ https://www.cloudsandclimate.com/blog/got_the_blues/
- dougmwne 3y agoIt’s funny how well that fits in with cultural stereotypes. The US had an insane culture of self promotion and salesmanship. Europe has a culture of intense elitism. ESA designed an excellent satellite that focused on the “right” goals, and promptly forgot the dirty peasants whose money they were really spending.
- 3y ago
- mytailorisrich 3y agoIn Europe we say that Americans know showmanship, which is not always meant as a compliment. This is a cultural difference.
- jansan 3y agoI was in the U.S. Space & Rocket Center in Huntsville a few weeks ago. We watched the Webb telescope presentation with a live comment in the planetary, and I could not believe how perfectly the presentation was done. Everything was absolutely flawless and I am almost sure that not a single person in Germany would be able to deliver a presentation on that level of perfection. It was not showmanship, it was just outstanding skill at doing a presentation, and I wish people in Europe would be better trained in doing this.
- throwawaylinux 3y agoMight also be a case of envy and sour gapes, and not reflect all that well on the Europeans saying that. This thread is full of people claiming Europeans are not boastful or self-promoting, which is pretty strange to me because the internet is full of Europeans boasting about how much better their countries allegedly are than the US about almost any subject you can think of. Healthcare, public transport, crime, politics, you name it. But you find one topic where US is unquestionably better than Europe (like rocketry), and all of a sudden it's a grave sin to boast about things, and the discussion turns into how much better Europe is at not being boastful.
- martin8412 3y agoBecause it doesn't in any way benefit citizens to do better in the realm of space? Not to mention that SpaceX only exists because of corruption at government level that resulted in contracts to SpaceX. Basically friend favours.
- throwawaylinux 3y agoNo, not because that.
- lamontcg 3y ago> ESA is doing really cool stuff, but they're doing a bad job of convincing people that they're doing cool stuff. Why does it matter? They don't need to convince you that they're doing "cool stuff", they need to convince the people who want to put up satellites that they're going to offer cheap cost-competitive launch vehicles.
- MrDresden 3y agoESA is a government run entity and as such definitely needs the public behind it when it comes to funding. Not realising that would be gross incompetence on their part.
- M2Ys4U 3y agoESA is an IGO, it's not beholden to any one government, not even the EU (which has their own space agency, EUSPA). ESA's member states might need to show their publics what they're doing with public money, and they do that, in part, by showing their collaboration with other ESA partners on projects.
- colordrops 3y agoThere's a halo effect. For instance all the PR that SpaceX has done has attracted a massive amount of talent.
- sebzim4500 3y agoBut realistically that isn't going to happen, so they have to convince the EU to pump money into it instead.
- martin8412 3y agoNo.. SpaceX funding comes from the members of ESA. The member countries are proportionally awarded contracts developing things for ESA in return.
- martin8412 3y ago
- nelox 3y agoNice burn.
- ChuckMcM 3y agoAgree, their live launch coverage is pretty, uh, not great. I realize that not everyone "gets" how SpaceX "sells" their product but it is super helpful when people see you as a cool, forward thinking, place to work contribute.
- shagie 3y agoLong ago on Youtube, ESA had a channel with - I want to say "Dr. Dave" but its hazy - who showed a lot of the neat imagery that was coming out of Hubble. (digging about) Dr. J. https://youtu.be/bPH8PNlNilY https://youtu.be/bPH8PNlNilY - which leads me back to https://esahubble.org/videos/hubblecast50a/ https://esahubble.org/videos/hubblecast50a/ But they've gone from a fairly charismatic/geeky presenter to white text on pictures with a music background. https://youtu.be/gbz_VRKMrh4 https://youtu.be/gbz_VRKMrh4 ... and so now I watch PBS Space Time with Dr. Matt for the long form science videos from a trusted source.
- js8 3y ago> ESA is doing really cool stuff, but they're doing a bad job of convincing people that they're doing cool stuff Yes. Another example is when JWST was launched, it should really have been compared to Herschel rather than Hubble.
- meling 3y agoFunny to see this and other comments like it today. I’m European, and just back from an enjoyable day at the Kennedy Space Center. NASA certainly knows how to promote their space program. Got to see the launch of 56 starlink satellites. And that Saturn 5 rocket is pretty big.
- bboygravity 3y agoI don't agree that ESA starting to build a reusable rocket in 2023 falls under "cool stuff". IMO it demonstrates the incredibly sad state of space transport technology and technology developmnet in general in Europe (compared to the US). Just a reminder that SpaceX was basically where ESA is in 2023 two (2) decades ago.
- ant6n 3y agoEurope has about 9000Km of High Speed Rail Lines, the US has, … umm, let me check the papers, carry the six, uh …0 km. The US has built relatively few metros or trams or even bicycle infrastructure, anything modern and sustainable is not done and not developed. I’d guess the EU has built about 10 times more of these infrastructures in the last 40 years, if not more.