7 ms·

The problem is you end up paying More for what you want because what you want doesn't align with everyone else. These cars are massed produced, so anything devi

The problem is you end up paying More for what you want because what you want doesn't align with everyone else. These cars are massed produced, so anything deviating from the popular norm ends up becoming custom and costing more, even if the custom design is less complex then the popular design. Given that everyone else wants those bells and whistles, ironically you get more by paying less which means logically more bells and whistles is the better deal. A logical person would in turn want the cars with "too much stuff". That is unless you're willing to pay more for less stuff.

lamontcg 3y ago
> Given that everyone else wants those bells and whistles I'd argue that almost nobody else wants all those bells and whistles, but most people want a couple of them. So you wind up with all of them, because people will walk away from a vehicle that doesn't have what they want more than walk away from a vehicle that has too many things they don't.
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  I like/use all of the features that the parent listed. There are _some_ dumb features, on my car, but most of them I quite like and are a large part of why I bought my car and not a cheaper model/trim.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Almost nobody wants power windows?
  - vkou 3y ago
    Or Bluetooth. Or not having to deal with a clutch. Or a window defroster. Or a rear-window wiper. Or cruise control... I could go on. :)
    - lamontcg 3y ago
      My 2000 Ranger has just about all of those. Those clearly aren't the features that are causing QC issues in 2023 models.
      - vkou 3y ago
        No, but I'm sure they were causing QC issues in earlier models, before auto manufacturers figured them out.
- aitchnyu 3y ago
  Mirrors the justification for big software: most people use 20% of the features, but that 20% is different for different people.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    Yeah, the analogy to something like Microsoft Office or whatever is pretty straightforwards.
- brewdad 3y ago
  And manufacturers have gotten really good at spreading the most popular features among multiple upgrade packages. You want heated seats and blind-spot monitoring? That's going to be two separate packages that include tons of features you don't really want. There might be an option to only add the two specific features but that means a custom order that will take months to arrive and probably won't end up saving you much money anyway.
brnaftr361 3y ago
Does everyone else want those bells and whistles or have we come into that impression through some misinterpretation? I don't know anybody that wants all that shit. For those who do, upon the misadventure whereupon they are informed of the costs of overcomplicating I suspect there is a large proportion of people who won't want it in short order. I also suspect a large contingent of people who buy into the marketing and upon facing reality, are silently disappointed. And finally people who are somehow insensitive to cost, and disappointment.
- Tagbert 3y ago
  most people want a significant portion of those features but not everyone wants the same set of features. As a result all features as wanted by a significant portion of the customers.
ktosobcy 3y ago
Nah... it's like with dumb SUVs - do you think that everyone wants them? Or the demad was created because it was better for the makers to make them (with relatively lower increase in cost they can charge more for the end product)? Tied with and thanks to Corporate Average Fuel Economy… In my circle I don't know anyone wanting "infotainmant" - just a regular car to which I can connect my mobile hassle-free without dumb TV screen smack in the middle of the car... Same goes for mobile phones - most of the people I know want to have regular sized phones (~5-5,5") but now... it's easier to smack ~7" screen to the roof-tile (that they call "phone") and sell at a premium...
- RajT88 3y ago
  > do you think that everyone wants them? SUV's are very popular among women - 43% of buyers. The industry research says that women feel safer driving them - the size makes them feel more protected, and the ride height lets them see the road much better. (Lest it go unsaid, women are on average less tall than men) These are the reasons my wife cites preferring her Honda Pilot to her previous cars.
  - asfgioandfionio 3y ago
    I'm sure nothing I have to say is news, but it bears repeating that the common excuses for driving an SUV are either selfish or irrational. The only advantage SUVs offer in safety is that they're likely to flatten the other car in a crash. Aside from size, the characteristics of an SUV make safety worse—they handle badly, tend to roll, and their design is unsafe to pedestrians and cyclists—so buying an SUV makes the roads as a whole less safe. People buy SUVs to avoid being killed by SUVs. It's a negative-sum arms race. SUVs have atrocious visibility, and this has its cost in blood. They are so high off the ground that it's impossible to see what is near to the vehicle. Thousands of children are injured every year from drivers not seeing them over the hood. Hundreds are killed. This kind of incident has a name: the frontover. SUVs are a major cause of poor visibility. The need to see over other cars mainly exists because cars are so stupidly tall. Buying an SUV to see over other SUVs is another negative-sum arms race.
enigma20 3y ago
Not completely. Adaptive cruise control is becoming more common. Some Toyota's have it in all versions for some models. Mercedes A class you have to pay additionally for the basic models.
greedo 3y ago
This is why there are so many white cars being made and delivered to dealerships in the US. With production still extremely constrained, manufacturers are just limiting what colorways they ship. They know anything new will sell since the lots are so empty, and buyers will just take whatever comes in the latest shipment. Having been new car shopping (and ended up buying used), I'm amazed at how much the car buying process has changed for new cars. You used to be able to order a color and trimline, with factory options without any issues. Now dealers laugh at you and say "Here's what the factory MIGHT send us in the next 6 months. Want to put down a deposit?" The only thing I like about this change is that there seems to be far less high pressure sales going on.

lamontcg 3y ago

> Given that everyone else wants those bells and whistles I'd argue that almost nobody else wants all those bells and whistles, but most people want a couple of them. So you wind up with all of them, because people will walk away from a vehicle that doesn't have what they want more than walk away from a vehicle that has too many things they don't.

shepherdjerred 3y ago
I like/use all of the features that the parent listed. There are _some_ dumb features, on my car, but most of them I quite like and are a large part of why I bought my car and not a cheaper model/trim.
vel0city 3y ago
Almost nobody wants power windows?
- vkou 3y ago
  Or Bluetooth. Or not having to deal with a clutch. Or a window defroster. Or a rear-window wiper. Or cruise control... I could go on. :)
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    My 2000 Ranger has just about all of those. Those clearly aren't the features that are causing QC issues in 2023 models.
    - vkou 3y ago
      No, but I'm sure they were causing QC issues in earlier models, before auto manufacturers figured them out.
aitchnyu 3y ago
Mirrors the justification for big software: most people use 20% of the features, but that 20% is different for different people.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  Yeah, the analogy to something like Microsoft Office or whatever is pretty straightforwards.
brewdad 3y ago
And manufacturers have gotten really good at spreading the most popular features among multiple upgrade packages. You want heated seats and blind-spot monitoring? That's going to be two separate packages that include tons of features you don't really want. There might be an option to only add the two specific features but that means a custom order that will take months to arrive and probably won't end up saving you much money anyway.

brnaftr361 3y ago

Does everyone else want those bells and whistles or have we come into that impression through some misinterpretation? I don't know anybody that wants all that shit. For those who do, upon the misadventure whereupon they are informed of the costs of overcomplicating I suspect there is a large proportion of people who won't want it in short order. I also suspect a large contingent of people who buy into the marketing and upon facing reality, are silently disappointed. And finally people who are somehow insensitive to cost, and disappointment.

Tagbert 3y ago
most people want a significant portion of those features but not everyone wants the same set of features. As a result all features as wanted by a significant portion of the customers.

ktosobcy 3y ago

Nah... it's like with dumb SUVs - do you think that everyone wants them? Or the demad was created because it was better for the makers to make them (with relatively lower increase in cost they can charge more for the end product)? Tied with and thanks to Corporate Average Fuel Economy… In my circle I don't know anyone wanting "infotainmant" - just a regular car to which I can connect my mobile hassle-free without dumb TV screen smack in the middle of the car... Same goes for mobile phones - most of the people I know want to have regular sized phones (~5-5,5") but now... it's easier to smack ~7" screen to the roof-tile (that they call "phone") and sell at a premium...

RajT88 3y ago
> do you think that everyone wants them? SUV's are very popular among women - 43% of buyers. The industry research says that women feel safer driving them - the size makes them feel more protected, and the ride height lets them see the road much better. (Lest it go unsaid, women are on average less tall than men) These are the reasons my wife cites preferring her Honda Pilot to her previous cars.
- asfgioandfionio 3y ago
  I'm sure nothing I have to say is news, but it bears repeating that the common excuses for driving an SUV are either selfish or irrational. The only advantage SUVs offer in safety is that they're likely to flatten the other car in a crash. Aside from size, the characteristics of an SUV make safety worse—they handle badly, tend to roll, and their design is unsafe to pedestrians and cyclists—so buying an SUV makes the roads as a whole less safe. People buy SUVs to avoid being killed by SUVs. It's a negative-sum arms race. SUVs have atrocious visibility, and this has its cost in blood. They are so high off the ground that it's impossible to see what is near to the vehicle. Thousands of children are injured every year from drivers not seeing them over the hood. Hundreds are killed. This kind of incident has a name: the frontover. SUVs are a major cause of poor visibility. The need to see over other cars mainly exists because cars are so stupidly tall. Buying an SUV to see over other SUVs is another negative-sum arms race.

enigma20 3y ago

Not completely. Adaptive cruise control is becoming more common. Some Toyota's have it in all versions for some models. Mercedes A class you have to pay additionally for the basic models.

greedo 3y ago

This is why there are so many white cars being made and delivered to dealerships in the US. With production still extremely constrained, manufacturers are just limiting what colorways they ship. They know anything new will sell since the lots are so empty, and buyers will just take whatever comes in the latest shipment. Having been new car shopping (and ended up buying used), I'm amazed at how much the car buying process has changed for new cars. You used to be able to order a color and trimline, with factory options without any issues. Now dealers laugh at you and say "Here's what the factory MIGHT send us in the next 6 months. Want to put down a deposit?" The only thing I like about this change is that there seems to be far less high pressure sales going on.