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To paraphrase The Economist, "This device is amazing, and now Apple needs developers to figure out what it's for." https://www.economist.com/business/2023/06/0
by Jeff_Brown 3y ago
To paraphrase The Economist, "This device is amazing, and now Apple needs developers to figure out what it's for."
https://www.economist.com/business/2023/06/06/apples-vision-pro-is-a-technical-marvel-will-anyone-buy-it https://www.economist.com/business/2023/06/06/apples-vision-...
- mpolichette 3y agoComputers were invented to speed up calculations, and yet the primary thing we use them for today is to read the news and send each other messages and memes… I think it’s totally reasonable, to expect developers to find the real use
- jacquesm 3y agoIt's the users that will find the real use.
- moffkalast 3y agoIs that why they call them users?
- jacquesm 3y agoNot necessarily. Developers and product designers assume that users are going to use their product in a particular way. In my - limited - experience in those roles users tend to find entirely different ways to use your product that you never ever would have thought of, and if you had thought of them would have had significant impact on the product itself. The resulting impedance mismatch tends to be overcome with ruthless applications of duct tape, post-it notes, bending and twisting of parts and - unfortunately - the overruling of safety devices and lock-outs.
- pohl 3y agoSo — pornography, then.
- jacquesm 3y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36424434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36424434
- thesuperbigfrog 3y agoA killer app might be: "Better Than Life: Las Vegas" Games, gambling, shows, and porn all in one "so immersive you won't want to leave" experience. "Disney ain't got nuthin' on this!"
- skeeter2020 3y agoSo we're supposed to get excited about our future Brave New World?
- thesuperbigfrog 3y agoThat depends on your view of VR entertainment and Las Vegas-style (adult) attractions. The Vision Pro was showcased with Disney as a content partner. While Disney has historically featured "family friendly" entertainment, there is definitely a market for adult entertainment that the Vision Pro could excel in. Is it "an exciting Las Vegas adventure in the privacy of your home" or "a lonely person in a dark room trying to escape the sadness of reality"?
- disqard 3y agoYou're the Hiro Protagonist of your own story -- Y Not Both? FWIW, my take is that this is yet another "slippery" media [0] and will mutate to whatever form brings its creators the most succe$$ [0] https://www.robinsloan.com/newsletters/visions/ https://www.robinsloan.com/newsletters/visions/
- sneak 3y agoApple won't allow porn-focused applications in their stores. Apple won't allow alternate stores on Apple-branded mobile devices, or sideloading. This is a fundamental disrespect of their customers who have purchased the device. Apple regards their brand image more than allowing their customers to display what they want on the device they own.
- furyofantares 3y agoHopefully it's as open as macOS, or at least much, much closer to it than iOS. Otherwise the options for exploration are limited by Apple.
- ohgodplsno 3y agoIt is more locked down than both.
- threeseed 3y agoNew opportunities for abuse do exist with Vision Pro. If you allowed free reign access to the sensors people could record the inside of your house/work, capture your face, fingerprints, retinal pattern etc. And again with Objective-C it's impossible to prevent private API usage unless you have some sort of App Store model which can inspect the binaries and prevent abuse. So it's ultimately going to be the same as iOS.
- Someone 3y ago> And again with Objective-C it's impossible to prevent private API usage unless you have some sort of App Store model which can inspect the binaries and prevent abuse. A alternative is to sandbox applications to prevent them from calling anything else than the official API, and to use a less restrictive sandbox for applications signed by a key owned by the vendor.
- TheBrokenRail 3y ago> If you allowed free reign access to the sensors people could record the inside of your house/work, capture your face, fingerprints, retinal pattern etc. Yes, yes they could. That's not and shouldn't be Apple's problem. That's your workplace's problem to regulate how the device is used on-site, the government's problem to regulate how it can be used in public, your household's problem on how it can be used in private, etc. The device will be inevitably jail-broken anyways, so a walled-garden isn't going to stop bad actors. Not to mention, most of the things you mentioned can already be accomplished with less expensive and much more subtle devices, like a standard digital camera. And those device definitely don't try to prevent abuse. (Imagine if your camera refused to take a picture because it thought you didn't have permission!)
- paxcoder 3y ago[dead]
- paxys 3y agoComputers had a 100% open platform from day 1. Tell me, will Apple allow a pornography app for the Vision Pro?
- basisword 3y agoIt has a web browser. You can access anything you want via that, same as the phone.
- paxys 3y agoSays who? Is Apple going to make the entire Vision SDK web compatible?
- russelg 3y agoSafari was shown in the demos.
- PeterisP 3y agoThe question isn't whether you can view the existing web content on the Vision Pro, the question is whether all of the Vision Pro SDK, sensors, and 3D functionality is exposed to the browser to enable VR-enabled webapps for the genres which Apple would disallow on their app store.
- astrange 3y agohttps://immersiveweb.dev https://immersiveweb.dev
- stemlord 3y agoNeither a web browser, nor the iPhone are remotely comparable to a general purpose computer in terms of free use
- ramesh31 3y ago
- zirgs 3y agoVideo games require A LOT of calculations.
- mentos 3y agoUnreal Engine developer here, super thrilled to see Apple spitefully choosing to only support Unity with no mention of UE. I imagine due to the bad blood between Epic and Apple over AppStore lawsuits.
- ynx 3y agoVR developer here. Politics aside, nobody should ever choose Unreal Engine for standalone VR anyways. It's clear that Epic doesn't prioritize VR, so it's more easily explained as an efficient use of resources. In concrete terms, Unreal Engine's VR support is awful; you can't get a good looking game running at high framerates on mobile hardware with it. Its forward renderer is severely lacking on mobile VR, and deferred is untenable. I don't want Unity to be as dominant as it is, but it's the only sane choice for VR. Epic is very clearly not interested in being a leader in this area.
- dylan604 3y agoHaving a disliked corporate daddy definitely has its knock on effects
- readyplayernull 3y agoWhen Unreal had those super expensive licenses in the order of +$200k most indie devs moved to Unity, so the average Unity dev doesn't have lots of resources to spend on a pricey headset and the expectation of very high quality titles. Either too few devs will ship anything or quality will be low.
- buildbot 3y agoApple _really_ holds grudges. After the Nvidia blamed them for their failing GPUs, they literally never shipped anything Nvidia ever again. There’s probably an alternate universe where metal does not exist because Apple and Nvidia became friends and just optimized cuda for macOS
- Jeff_Brown 3y agoThat's fascinating. I wonder how formalized and widespread this logic is -- did economists tell leadership, or did they just happen to organically hire spiteful leaders?
- leejoramo 3y agoIn 1981, I received a computer as a birthday gift at the young age of 13. Likely the first micro-computer in my small California town. When I took it to my Junior High science fair people were like stunned by a kid with a computer. When you turned on the computer, all you got was a flashing cursor wait for you to program in BASIC. The next year, a successful local business person asked me, if I thought in the future most people would have computers. I said yes. They replied they didn’t think that would ever happen. And they didn’t see, the need for it in their business, even after seeing VisiCalc. In less than 5 years, they had computers in thier business for Lotus123. And not long after, they had computers in their home. I have seen this pattern repeat many times. I have also seen many branches of computer tech die (amiga, os/2, palm….) But from my point of view “figure out what it’s for” is the ultimate computer hackers playground. And perhaps Vision Pro will be the first headset “worth criticizing” regardless of its success.
- adamredwoods 3y agoI feel the computer revolution was seen by many. The Vision Pro won't be nearly as explosive, if at all. It's essentially an interface for personal electronic space, and that space is being explored by hackers every where with all kinds of devices. So 'figure out what its for' is being explored by many, and doesn't have to be exclusive to Apple devices.
- tailspin2019 3y ago> When you turned on the computer, all you got was a flashing cursor wait for you to program in BASIC. > from my point of view “figure out what it’s for” is the ultimate computer hackers playground I don't have much to add to this fantastic comment.
- wil421 3y agoMy father in law was in the construction business during this time at a company building bridge spans. A supplier gave them 5 Apple IIs as a bonus for buying so much product. The owner exclaimed, throw them out computers are a fad! To calculate the bridge spans requirements it took 3 guys a 3-5 days to do the calculations, drafting the spans, and double checking everything. My father in law opened the book on basic and saw the math it could do. He wrote a very basic program to take the inputs and do the math. It took the computer less than an hour to return the results. Who knows that the future brings but I’ll be optimistic.
- thebricklayr 3y agoHonestly, I'm excited to start building AR-enhanced cooking experiences for Umami[1]. I worry though: is the passthrough reliable enough to use a sharp kitchen knife safely while wearing it? [1] https://www.umami.recipes https://www.umami.recipes
- makeitdouble 3y agoIsn't there also the issue of the device overheating ? accidental water projection ? oil projections ? Camera fogging ? The battery dying while doing something and you're suddenly blind ? I think the Apple demo of people mostly sitting on a couch is not a lack of imagination, but a pragmatic approach of how this device should be used.
- thebricklayr 3y agoYou may be right. My hope is the AVP is at least step toward something that could make potentially dangerous physical activities, like cooking, safer (e.g., by showing you the temperature of a surface before you touch it with your hands, as suggested elsewhere in this thread).
- makeitdouble 3y agoIt really makes it a pity the Hololens didn't go anywhere. I wonder how much time we'll have to wait for a device that actually aims for that space, and not a portable display like the AVP seems to be.
- basisword 3y agoI feel like even if it is good enough it’s only a matter of time until it lags and you lose a finger. Lulling us into a false sense of security is the real danger.
- Aeolun 3y agoI don’t know about you, but it’ll be obvious to me in much less than 1ms when the passthrough is lagging. You know your hand moves, so when you don’t see it move it’s incredibly jarring.
- detourdog 3y agoI’m most intrigued by the handtracking I’m hoping that ends up beig distinct…. eventually.
- Jeff_Brown 3y agoI look forward to a virtual, nothing-in-my-hands-but-I'm-still-playing-it drumset. The lack of tactile feedback will make it worse than real drums, but it'll still be fun to be able to play them anywhere.
- detourdog 3y agoI feel like the VisionPro is a demonstration of what it takes technically. All the frameworks are fleshed out. The work is done and in x-number of years it will take off or the various pieces will be absorbed into other products.
- detourdog 3y agoReplying to myself but... Imagine just the eye and hand tracking with no screens. That could be a much smaller device and one can trade the screens for an interactive environment.
- planede 3y agoMaybe Aerodrums should hire some programmers to write an app that just projects a drum set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CavlglPYVvQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CavlglPYVvQ edit: They already seem to have a beta VR application: https://aerodrums.com/3d-updates https://aerodrums.com/3d-updates
- Sipaliwini 3y agoYann here, Aerodrums co-founder / developer. Thank you for the plug. We're doing a Kickstarter right now for Aerodrums 2. It will have support for VR passthrough. We'll add support for Apple Vision Pro and Meta Quest 3 as soon as they make it possible (if anyone has connections to speed that up, I am interested). The project page is here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aerodrums/aerodrums-2-a-new-way-to-drum-from-home-to-the-stage?ref=cmbucf https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aerodrums/aerodrums-2-a...
- AmericanChopper 3y agoI’ve never seen an AR/VR usecase that interested me, but if this thing turns out to be a decent replacement for external monitors I’d probably buy one. I travel a lot for work and the laptop on the shitty hotel desk setup is a major drag.
- NovaDudely 3y agoI'm with you, it seems neat technology wise but the use cases I have seen just seem almost forced. I mean it is neat but I am not really wowed by the potential. In the realm of teaching, particularly with representation of physical things - this thing will be awesome. But beyond that, I don't know. The idea of a portable large viewing screen is brilliant but that it not the real main selling point of this. A decent VR head set could do something similar. In 10 years time, comments like this will either look like a prophet that could see the folly of the future... or be like all those people that dumped on the iPod and iPhone.
- mr_toad 3y ago> A decent VR head set could do something similar. Are there any VR sets & OSs that can project multiple app windows into the space around you?
- AmericanChopper 3y agoI’m not trying to dump on it, I’m just saying that as I see the product today, that’s the only thing I imagine myself wanting to use it for. That said, when the iPhone first came out I was only really interested in it to upgrade my mobile email experience, so we’ll see I guess…
- cwxm 3y agothis seems like it’ll be much higher resolution than even decent VR headsets. Also, I think the AR mode being very good is important. Not seeing the real world for too long would make me feel claustrophobic
- spaceman_2020 3y agoI can totally imagine walking into a WeWork in 2025 and seeing everyone in the hot desk area wearing one of these instead of their tiny laptops.
- wslh 3y agoI feel the same with the Meta devices but I think what the journalist misses is the strategy. Meta completely failed in the strategy, their store is empty of AAA offerings. This is not bad luck it is a blatant incompetent strategy from Meta. It is in the business book. I assume Apple has a strategy, it could fail? Obviously, but they are doing what is right. When the iPhone 1 launched there were many hiccups but in a short period of time. I agree that initially this product will not sell many units. A sci-fi thinking also tells me that this could improve many industries with completely new interactions with the world. I see this more a B2B product than B2C.
- chunkyguy 3y agoApple's strategy has always been to go 100% in and don't look back. Eventually people assume if Apple is investing so much into this new thing, they must have a plan. So a few adventurous devs and users get onboard. Apple marketing team uses that as the bait to bring more people onboard.
- luxuryballs 3y agoguess they’re going to have to send me one so I can get crackin
- SkyMarshal 3y agoToo many business/econ types have difficulty envisioning what new tech may be good for. Be it early computers, or the internet, or now this, they seem to be bottom-line people with little imagination or vision.
- Jeff_Brown 3y agoI feel the opposite way. The crowd will invent things an individual cannot anticipate. To believe otherwise is a failure of imagination.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoI assume the end goal is something like Cyberpunk 2077, where you have a HUD always, so if you go get a cup of coffee whilst working, you can, and still fidget with things as you do, or what have you, maybe you're about to go to lunch and miss a message that could prevent one of the worst outages of your company, or whatever, I'm just trying to see the net good that people will figure out over time if its done correctly, but there's likely to be something people will come to enjoy about it. I would also assume you would want as many RDP type of applications on this platform as you possibly can have, and if Apple is not pushing companies that make RDP apps to be on their platform or other useful app makers onto their platform, then they're really dropping the ball early.