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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
- FredPret 3y ago[flagged]
- dang 3y agoCould you please not post unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- croes 3y agoThey are already replacable
- adaml_623 3y agoCool. The manufacturers will figure out a way to make nice phones with a longer lifetime. Because the EU forces them to.
- Simulacra 3y agoI wish you were right but I have zero faith that Apple would ever willingly follow through with this. A depleted battery is an opportunity for them to sell people on a new phone who don't realize they can get the battery replaced. It also totally goes against their whole ethos of non-repair. Mandating USB C was easier because Apple already did that with the Macbooks, so it wasn't that big of a leap. Removable batteries, however, they would claim would require some expensive, impossible redesign. Regretfully I don't see this coming to fruition. Apple will find a way, by hook, crook, or lawsuit, to get out of it.
- dotnet00 3y agoAlternatively, it'll be another excuse for them to claim to revolutionize computing to cheers by bringing back the old replaceable battery with some more proprietary stuff and carefully hidden statements about the water resistance not working afterwards.
- malermeister 3y agoThe same Apple that is prepping to open up to sideloading right now?
- Simulacra 3y agoFrom your lips to God's ears...
- arlcode 3y agoNot so long ago some people claimed apple would rather leave the EU market than implement USB-C or open up the app store. They complied (or are in the process of complying) with these regulations. Afaik the proposed battery act allows either swappable batteries or a minimum "lifetime".
- seszett 3y ago> Not so long ago some people claimed apple would rather leave the EU market than implement USB-C or open up the app store It's just a case of Americans underestimating the size of the EU market. But the large corporations that already do business in the EU know very well that they can't leave a market that represents half of their revenue.
- refurb 3y agoOr they just create one phone for the EU market and don't market the rest?
- malermeister 3y agoThat just doesn't happen because you lose economy of scale. The EU actually has a ton of soft power through this, enough for it to be a term in geopolitics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
- refurb 3y agoEurope is about 20% of Apple sales internationally. It's not that much power. https://www.statista.com/statistics/382175/quarterly-revenue-of-apple-by-geograhical-region/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/382175/quarterly-revenue...
- malermeister 3y agoI don't think many companies would be able to take a 20% overnight drop in sales without it causing some major issues.
- refurb 3y agoBut the adjustment is not without cost itself. Is the cost of a complete redesign > lost sales in EU? Then don't do the redesign.
- malermeister 3y agoThe redesign is a one-time cost. Lost sales in the EU will be ongoing until it happens.
- refurb 3y agoThat's true, but a new product line has on-going update costs and warranty support costs as well.
- alex7734 3y agoEngineers have become experts in selecting components so that they fail right after the warranty period. Replaceable batteries just means they will make something else weaker instead, preferably something that fries the device once it fails (see https://youtu.be/7cNg_ifibCQ?t=238 https://youtu.be/7cNg_ifibCQ?t=238). It's too dangerous not to, as nowadays phones (or computers in general) don't really need to be upgraded that often to remain useful. No manufacturer wants a repeat of the 1080Ti.
- phyllistine 3y ago> No manufacturer wants a repeat of the 1080Ti I think I'm out of the loop. What does this mean?
- alex7734 3y agoIt's too good, as long as you don't need 4k, it still runs the newest games at full quality with more than acceptable performance. It has 11GB VRAM. And it's a 6 year old GPU.
- fnimick 3y agoNVidia made a video card good enough that people who bought it had no need to upgrade for 4-5 years afterward. It hampered sales of cards for two generations afterward.
- marcosdumay 3y agoWow, Apple engineering a computer to fail destroying all the data after the guarantee and lying to their customers why their computers failed is pretty damning. Did anything come out of this?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- martin8412 3y agoThe article is blatantly false. The legislation only applies to batteries above 2kWh
- Havoc 3y agoQuick glance at the docs suggests that it is two separate points in the legislation? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2020/0798/COM_COM(2020)0798_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_instituti...
- martin8412 3y agoCan you point to what you mean? My understanding is that the regulation only concerns batteries used for transport, e.g electric scooters. Pretty much all vehicles sold as replacements for GHG-emitting vehicles.
- Havoc 3y ago>My understanding is that the regulation only concerns batteries used for transport The regulation isn't about one thing. It talks about everything from stationary battery energy storage system to portable appliances and yes transport too.
- tallowen 3y agoI wish there were better approaches to solving the problems around replacing batteries. This solution has downsides in terms of size (extra material required to surround the battery) and waterproofness. I like the features that will have to trade off against replaceable batteries. I wish there were more opportunities for creative solutions to ewaste rather than the specific outcome being regulated.
- eppp 3y agoI would make the weight trade in an instant to get replaceable batteries back. I dont see why waterproofness has to be sacrificed to get it though.
- constantcrying 3y agoModern phones include glued in gaskets to enable water proofing. This is incompatible with any kind of easy removability.
- eppp 3y agoGlue in all the gaskets around the electronics and then epoxy the battery terminal wires into the waterproof area. Let the battery get wet if you can get a new one.
- constantcrying 3y agoThis is what phones did previously. The issues with it are an increase in complexity and size (you need to physically seperate the components, have terminals, etc.) and that you still absolutely do not want water to get trapped in the battery compartment and possibly expose the battery to water.
- candiddevmike 3y agoI blame Apple for everyone's obsession with size. Or really, thinness, as everyone seems to have pop tart phones as thin and fragile as glass--with such a large phone, what value does thinness really add? I'd rather have a less delicate, easily serviceable, thicker phone.
- danpalmer 3y agoI love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. I'm glad we're getting USB-C on the iPhone, but it wasn't a huge problem and it was probably coming anyway in the next few years. But replaceable batteries? I'm skeptical, and think it could shrink the market and lower the quality for users. I feel like a much better approach would be to say that phones must work with third party batteries, and manufacturers can't restrict battery replacements to their own repair centres. That increases competition, helps small businesses, and encourages a thriving batter recycling and replacement market, increasing device lifetime. As for USB-C, similar legislation about increasing compatibility and reducing lock-in (neutralising Apple's MFi program for example) could have had similar impact without the downsides of the industry being unable to move forward.
- smn1234 3y agoI'd much rather be able to swap a charged battery for the drained one in my phone especially in such circumstances as when I'm in a foreign country and dependent on my phone (for e.g. safety, to get around) and there's not a iPhone cable or charge point around. It seems like a no brainer, certainly from a consumer benefit perspective. Using batteries as a mechanism for hardware upgrades is ridiculous, instead of the features of the new hardware that should be the compelling, selling point and the way to a value statement that wins hearts and minds.
- eterevsky 3y agoIf a battery lasts a couple of days, I would much rather my phone were waterproof than be able to swap the battery. Having a power bank solves the problem of discharged phone for me, and anyway I almost never have to use it. Being able to drop your phone in the water and pick it up still working is far more valuable to me.
- Timon3 3y agoWaterproof phones with replacable batteries might not be waterproof after the replacement - so why don't you just keep the original battery, and have a waterproof phone? Win-win for everyone.
- unglaublich 3y agoThe problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Please, EU: bring a law that forces manufacturers to release their drivers / firmware whenever they stop updating a digital device.
- watwut 3y agoBattery in my last device became too weak long before device was useless. Device was perfectly fine, just that battery did not hold long anymore.
- sdenton4 3y agoI had a couple phones I really liked where the battery got puffy - ie, very very bad - while the device was otherwise great. Tried replacing with an ifixit kit, but the screen got borked in the process. Total waste...
- nonethewiser 3y agoYeah battery will virtually always be the first to go. Unless you crack the screen.
- MostlyStable 3y agoin my experience, it's the charge port that goes. My last two devices, each of which I had for 3 years, the charge port failed before the battery did. I just finished fixing my current one. Although I did decide to do a battery replacement anyways while I had the device open. But that was just because of how hard it is to open them at all. My battery health monitoring app said it was at ~80% health still. And while the charge port hasn't always failed on me in the past, I'm not sure the battery has ever been the reason for me personally, although I'm probably just lucky in that regard. Basically, I'm not sure that any one "thing" is the thing that always fails. There are multiple common points of failure and generally speaking, phones are hard to service in any manner these days. I personally would gladly give up water and dust protection, as well as thinness in exchange for ease of serviceability. Unfortunately, that seems to be a relatively uncommon set of preferences (although obviously it's probably much more common in places like Hacker News).
- Ekaros 3y agoNext step should be mandatory software updates. For something like 7 years from initial sale. Which would allow 2 years of normal sale cycle and then at end 5 year of support.
- enachtry 3y agoNot like that. There's a much simpler solution. Make it mandatory to have written on box just like any other tech spec, the minimum date until when security updates will be provided, the cadence of updates and their nature (e.g. for Android could be upstream updates). There is already legislative warranty framework around compliance to promised specs. This means if the date is not honored, customers can turn against stores and return the products. Stores can then return against distributors/manufacturers, etc. Also forbid sales of any network connected devices (phones, tablets, TVs, routers, etc) past that date because it's a wide security risk, particularly for people who are IT analphabets. You'll then see how spectacularly quickly everyone lines up to security update schedules and standards. They will also find a way to prolong the date for devices that sell well.
- sva_ 3y agoPretty sure I read somewhere that small devices like phones and tablets are exempted. Thanks for nothing.
- permo-w 3y agodo you have a source for this?
- sva_ 3y agoThis was my source (in German): https://www.heise.de/news/Akkus-von-Smartphones-und-Tablets-duerfen-weiterhin-fest-eingebaut-werden-7486224.html https://www.heise.de/news/Akkus-von-Smartphones-und-Tablets-... The new law seems to exempt some devices by article 11. But I now think the article might just be dated or wrong. Here's the passage translated by DeepL: > However, Article 11 explicitly leaves room for more specific rules that ensure a "higher level of environmental and health protection." For smartphones and tablets, the Commission and member states already adopted so-called ecodesign rules in November that give manufacturers a choice: Either they design their smartphones and tablets so that users can replace the battery. Or they install the battery permanently, in which case it must still have at least 83 percent of its capacity after 500 charging cycles and at least 80 percent after 1,000 charging cycles. Smartphones must then also be dustproof and waterproof. > From the EU Commission's point of view, these special ecodesign rules for smartphones and tablets guarantee a higher level of environmental protection and health protection than the Battery Ordinance. This applies "in particular due to the durability requirements," the Commission informed c't in response to an inquiry. Therefore, the ecodesign rules are applicable, it said. These come into force after a transition period of 21 months and thus earlier than the Battery Ordinance. From my limited reading, article 11 only applies to devices that are built to be used in wet environments though. The original proposal: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:52020PC0798&rid=1 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Quote Article 11: > 2. The obligations set out in paragraph 1 shall not apply where > ... > (b) the functioning of the battery is only possible when the battery is integrated into the structure of the appliance. A smart lawyer could probably argue that a phone can not properly function when exposed to the elements without being integrated into the structure. But I don't know.
- steveBK123 3y agoOn the one hand, maybe a reduction in e-waste. Then again - do you trust your average person to recycle batteries responsibly? At least the phones have some residual trade-in value so people are incentivized to turn them in somewhere. However, the other challenge is people like buying sketchy cheap batteries off the internet, as we have seen from the recent spree of e-bike fires in NYC apartments so...
- Jochim 3y ago> However, the other challenge is people like buying sketchy cheap batteries off the internet, as we have seen from the recent spree of e-bike fires in NYC apartments so... Sounds like something that should be regulated next. People replacing their own batteries provides an extra incentive to do so.
- gevz 3y agoI wonder what is the definition of easily removable and replaceable. Does popping a few screws and using a specialized tool qualifies as easy? What about re-sealing the device after to keep the waterproof rating?
- edhelas 3y agoI think you know the answer.
- epolanski 3y agoIs waterproof even a real needed feature? Like, I've been owning mobile phones for 22 years at this point and it's literally something I've never cared or benefitted from. On the other hand, having replaceable batteries is definitely something that's been useful in the past.
- martin8412 3y agoYes, it is a needed feature in humid environments.
- gsich 3y agoThat is not the same.
- chongli 3y agoAlso anywhere that drops below freezing in the winter. Coming indoors with an ice cold phone is going to cause tons of condensation. If the phone isn't sealed (or placed inside a sealed case) then water will get inside.
- epolanski 3y agoWait, are you saying that till few years ago non-waterproof phones broke more or something? Because that never happened.
- cududa 3y ago
- RadixDLT 3y agojust in time, my google pixel 6a phone is bloated and cracked open the back cover
- duringmath 3y agoStop micromanaging everything what the hell
- nonethewiser 3y agoGood at making laws. Not good at making tech.
- okanat 3y agoDo you know which continent invented and the sole seller of the most precise litography machines? How about lenses? How about the best electrical infrastructure products with even IoT?
- BurningFrog 3y agoI expect each EU hardware design mandate to be worse than the previous, now that they've got a taste of the power...
- malermeister 3y agoHow are any of them bad so far?
- jntvjnvutnuvt 3y agoHaving cookies message popup on every website you visit is a good thing?
- malermeister 3y agoHow is that hardware?
- ragebol 3y agoThe choice given by gdpr is, roughly, either: no tracking OR do track but ask for consent. Those websites doing the cookie walls should have taken the hint to simply not do tracking. Instead, they chose to be annoying.
- Nemo_bis 3y agoYes, but that's the ePrivacy directive, not the GDPR.
- martin8412 3y agoThat's only a requirement if the site you visit wants to track you. They could simply not track you, and then they wouldn't have to show anything.
- Jochim 3y agoYes, it makes it very obvious which sites are trying to track my activity and should be avoided and rewards sites that don't by making it obvious that they aren't.
- ralph84 3y agoWhat about replaceable flash memory? That’s a consumable too.
- guywithahat 3y agoThe EU is slowly going to make google's [project ara](https://www.leaflabs.com/project-ara https://www.leaflabs.com/project-ara) mandatory despite 20 years of consumers demanding thinner, more water resistant phones
- constantcrying 3y agoI still do not agree with that rule. Replacable batteries are at odds with water tightness. I would have bought more phones if mine didn't survive water to a great extent. I think instead the regulation should focus on making parts available and phones reasonably easy to repair. This will most likely include switching out seals, which are needed for the protection from water.
- birdyrooster 3y agoI think batteries can technically be submerged in water and discharged safely but it's an engineering challenge. As long as the rest of the phone is waterproof I think we are okay.
- constantcrying 3y agoIt is significantly more complicated than that. Water isn't just dangerous because it short circuits, but because it also attacks the materials. You do not want water in your phone, seperating the battery compartment also increases thickness and complexity.
- FpUser 3y agoSuper thin phones are impossible to hold without the hefty case.
- nonethewiser 3y agoBut most phones arent super thin. Imagine adding a replaceable battery and thickness to those.
- FpUser 3y agoI remember having Samsung Note 4. It had user replaceable battery and I had it cased. No problemo.
- 3y ago
- nimish 3y agoThe tradeoff for sealed batteries was significantly improved ingress protection, larger charge capacity, and lighter weight. The market spoke and nobody seems to really care that much about user replaceable batteries except a vocal minority.
- jsbg 3y agoThat and the fact that with phone trade-in programs from manufacturers, batteries are much less likely to be disposed of inappropriately.
- indrora 3y agoCAT has sold phones with replaceable batteries and good ingress protection.
- TazeTSchnitzel 3y agoThey aren't particularly light or sleek though.
- robin_reala 3y agoFeels like, as per usual, people haven’t read the source text.[1] In order to ensure that portable batteries that were incorporated into appliances are subject to separate collection, treatment and high quality recycling once those appliances become waste, provisions to ensure the removability and replaceability of batteries in such appliances are necessary. Consumer safety should be ensured, in line with Union law and in particular Union safety standards, during the removal of portable batteries from or the replacement of portable batteries in an appliance. A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Commercially available tools are considered to be tools available on the market to all end-users without the need for them to provide evidence of any proprietary rights and that can be used with no restriction, except health and safety-related restrictions. Nothing stopping manufacturers from using normal fasteners and gaskets to comply while retaining water resistance etc. [1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2023-0237_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2023-0237...
- ajaimk 3y agoPretty sure the iPhone 14 already satisfies this requirement
- randomfinn 3y ago> A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Doesn't it still require heat to undo the glue?
- Retr0id 3y agoNo, they have pull-tabs (although they do often snap, requiring heat and/or IPA to loosen the adhesive)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mytailorisrich 3y agoI believe that the average replacement rate of smartphones is less than 3 years. That's one of the reasons manufacturers have given up on (easily) replaceable batteries. It's simpler and allows for slicker design and anyway, most people will buy a new smartphone before the battery reaches its end of life. The EU is fighting the wrong fight here. It'd be more useful to improve recyclability and actual recycling than to force more complicated phones where it's not needed.
- FpUser 3y ago>"I believe that the average replacement rate of smartphones is less than 3 years." It is probably the same as with PC. Initially each generation was way more powerful and allowed "better" and more powerful applications. But at some point your generic PC has become powerful enough to run nearly everything the average person wants and there are no more reasons to upgrade. Smartphones may have reached the same point.
- arroz 3y agoUSB-C, battery: Taiwan, Ukraine:
- ulfw 3y agoSo how come they aren't making car (EV) batteries replaceable? Ah yes. Europe still has a car industry whereas there is zero phone or computer industry left.
- seszett 3y ago> So how come they aren't making car (EV) batteries replaceable? I don't think 500 kg batteries can ever be easily and quickly user-replaceable, no matter what the EU mandates. You should complain about the laws of physics (or the weakness of humans) rather than make this ridiculous comparison.
- openplatypus 3y agoThere is a manufacturer that has automatic battery replacement station. You drive up. Battery bank is swapped and in 5 minutes you drive of fully charged. It is coming. It won't happen overnight.
- rolph 3y agoGM was prototyping a two part platform concept. the chassis was drivetrain, and engine in one unit and body/cabin, a separate unit that anchored on. there was to be few chassis types, and many body types.
- ulfw 3y agoAnd yet Nio is doing it already. How "ridiculous"! https://www.nio.com/nio-power https://www.nio.com/nio-power
- seszett 3y agoThe point of the EU directive is too have easily user-replaceable batteries in phones, EV batteries will never be easily user-replaceable as long as they are heavier than what a human can lift. Swappable EV batteries are not a new thing and Renault (an EU company, thus) has done it for a long time (with mixed success though) but it's totally incomparable with this law on phone batteries.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lozenge 3y agoI followed through to the link and I don't think it actually creates a hard requirement for replaceable phone batteries. There's also a clear exception for rinseable devices, I guess they mean shavers and toothbrushes, but potentially phones could come under it as well.
- layer8 3y agoThe exception is for “appliance specifically designed to operate primarily in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion, and that are intended to be washable or rinseable”. I don’t think that phones can count as being specifically designed to operate primarily in such environments, unless it’s specifically an underwater phone or similar.
- dang 3y agoIs this rule enacted now or was this just a vote? That's the important detail for whether this counts as SNI or not (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22significant%20new%20information%22%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...).
- codetrotter 3y agoServer Name Indication
- officialchicken 3y agoNo, the rule can not be enacted since it has not been fully adopted - the final (multilingual) text has to be added to the European Council Rules via the plenary voting procedure. This rule will come into effect following that vote.
- dang 3y agoThanks - I appreciate the help. Do you know if the final vote is just a formality or if there is a real chance it won't pass? Most proposed bills / votes don't end up resulting in much so we tend to downweight those threads on HN and wait for the thing to actually happen (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20bills%20propos&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...).
- anigbrowl 3y agoThe downside of this is that discussions are more likely to end up as purely reactive toward change that has already occurred, and disgruntlement among the losers over what feels like a fait accompli can poison discourse. Discussion of legislative issues prior to passage leaves open the possibility of organizing/lobbying for or against a given proposal, should an informed consensus emerge among those discussing the issue.
- 3y ago
- Havoc 3y agoThank you EU. On apple devices specifically I've found battery life to be the showstopper. ifruits all the way back to 7 if not longer are still very usable....but that would be a 7 year old battery. Most lithiums start to fade after 2 years.
- layer8 3y agoYou can easily have an iPhone battery replaced. The regulation just guarantees that you’ll be able to do it yourself rather than having to use a professional service.
- jrm4 3y agoJust broadly, let me just echo my full throated support for regulation in this space. Forget the vast majority of the goofy "innovation" arguments I hear, the fact that 3 family cell phones, 2 laptops, Steam Deck, Nintendo Switch, and Oculus can all use the same charger makes insanely more sense that what we were doing before.
- martin8412 3y agoThe Nintendo Switch charger isn't standards compliant, and if you use another charger, it might not be able to keep up with the power draw of the Nintendo Switch.
- lagadu 3y agoSingle charger is lovely: nowadays whenever I travel I carry a single charger; it charges: my laptop, my work laptop, my phone, my noise cancelling headphones, my wireless iems, my book, my watch.
- KennyBlanken 3y agoYou can get cables and small dongles that convert USB-C or micro to lightning etc. You're talking about a few-dollar problem. I don't want a fragile USB-C port on my phone. The lightning port is a joy to use - reliable both in terms of the retention mechanism and connectivity, and easy to clean of debris.
- ianburrell 3y agoI think the big question is how "easily" replaceable are the batteries. I doubt were going back to external, swappable batteries since those add extra bulk. And that isn't needed since batteries are much better and power banks and chargers are everywhere. What is needed is a way to easily replace the battery when it gets old. Now, need to take it to repair shop or take chances with DIY. It sounds like proposal includes internal batteries, easily removing back cover, and replacing the battery with connector. I'm about to replace the swollen battery on 5 year old phone. It wasn't worth paying someone to do it. I'm worried cause I broke a previous phone doing the same repair.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago> I'm worried cause I broke a previous phone doing the same repair. Just let them ban glue in phones and they're done.
- rad_gruchalski 3y agoLet’s just ban everything. Let’s all go back to the trees and live in caves.
- cududa 3y agoiPhone 14 (non pro) has done this. Leaks indicate it's coming to the 15 Pro, too. Two screws and a plunger can pop off the screen and back battery assembly. https://www.ifixit.com/News/64865/iphone-14-teardown https://www.ifixit.com/News/64865/iphone-14-teardown
- Euphorbium 3y agoUnbelievably based. Now demand sd card slot. Phones could last for decades.
- jupp0r 3y agoThis is stupid. Battery lifetimes has come a long way (1000-2000 cycles are the norm) and will improve in the future. Devices are much denser and are waterproof. There are trade offs and customers have chosen to favor designs that do not require easily replaceable batteries. I wouldn't want to pay the price for having one.
- throwbadubadu 3y agoDifferent dates, but the relevant one 2027.. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20230609IPR96210/making-batteries-more-sustainable-more-durable-and-better-performing https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20230609IP...
- powerapple 3y agoI remember when we had replaceable batteries, many, with different shape, different spec, different charger. Then someone did invent a universal charger with movable pin. If you want to replace battery on your iPhone, you can actually do it in local repair shops. Powerbank is actually a good product. I don't miss replaceable batteries.
- jacobp100 3y agoI think the way the current non-pro models handle batteries is good. You only need to remove the back, and then you get direct access to the battery
- a_square_peg 3y agoAlso a rule to make laptops be completely off when powered off... not just in some 'sleep' state that turns on and overheats while in a bag. I can't imagine how much laptop battery life is wasted away due to this.
- activiation 3y agoThanks to EU for micro USB, USB-C and hopefully replaceable batteries
- jeffrallen 3y agoSocieties get to choose how they will live, and technology has a huge impact on how we live, so the EU is within it's rights to make these laws. If Apple doesn't like it, they can piss off back to California and give up 250 million iPhone users to Android.
- alexcombessie 3y agoGreat news! It should stop electronic waste and bad « planned obsolescence » practices from smartphone manufacturers
- TulliusCicero 3y agoNext up, headphone jacks please!
- dbg31415 3y agoI hate that the EU can bully American companies into making shit we don’t want. I don’t want a thick ugly phone. And that’s what you get with a removable battery.
- nologic01 3y agoGood. The next step should be to charge the true price of e-waste. People are entitled to their consumerist obsessions - they just need to pay for cleaning-up the pollution their create for the rest of us. A phone with replaceable/ugradeable parts and software updates would probably last decades. The disposable culture must come to an end before it disposes all of us.
- mktk1001 3y agoAt one point, tech companies should wonder if it is worth serving this market. With all these useless regulations, no wonder there’s no innovation in EU anymore.
- crabbone 3y agoIt matters little that on many devices battery is always engaged, even if device is plugged into a wall. My Dell's laptop battery died even though I probably used the laptop disconnected from external power source for less than 10 hours over its lifetime (two years). Interestingly, I had to physically remove the battery to be able to use it again when plugged into a wall, it wouldn't even turn on with a dead battery, even if connected to power source.
- fuzzfactor 3y agoSometimes it's the other way around, you have to have some battery power in excess of what the external supply can provide or the thing won't boot.
- jacknews 3y ago"Many consumers were vocal about the change but over time, most accepted it as the new norm and moved on. " I guess. The fact is you really don't have a choice anymore, so what are you going to do? I'm not sure that counts as 'acceptance', more like 'resignation'.
- villgax 3y agoBigger problem is cars with welded ones that are not user serviceable or atleast standardized modules
- fuzzfactor 3y agoThings that made original cell phones not dumb: Removable batteries with aftermarket suppliers way less costly than factory originals. Small enough to fit in the pocket easily, or flip form for versatility. Each battery lasting over 2 weeks and you could stockpile them for extended off-grid use. External battery chargers included. Tactile keypads. Physical connection for external antenna for better reception, as well as audio interface for hands-free car use, analog headgear etc. Things that made original smart phones smart: USB at least plus possibly Bluetooth connection for use as a modem or virtual com or ethernet port as an interface to PC for internet access/faxing, as well as mass storage mode so the phone's file system appears no differently than a regular external drive. Free downloads of manufacturers' PC software to interface phone to PC, for file management, text/picture/video message composition/viewing, personalized backup/restoration, etc. Removable Memory Stick (Sony) or SD card. Prices no higher than $500, which itself was too extravagant to be accepted by many, mostly those requiring it for business. Superior OS compared to either Android or IOS. Email & internet access provided by cell carrier without need for special mobile consideration on web sites. Full manufacturer support independent of cell carrier. Without these a phone can not be very smart. When the iPhone appeared with exorbitant pricing and lacking the traditional smart features, plus substituting dumb things like non-removable battery, it was too bad people settled for that.
- pixelatedindex 3y ago> it was too bad people settled for that. Power users / tech steeped people like us will care a lot about the original cell phones’ antennas, tactile keypads. But 90% of the public don’t care. And the 10% who are people like us cannot continue using our niche products with no interoperability with iOS/Android, if we expect to keep up with the rest of the society that has now been accustomed to a sealed slab. Basically, I disagree with the premise that people “settled” for it - the majority a car when they were accustomed to riding horses.
- fuzzfactor 3y agoGood to see your thoughtful and realistic response. But I will still point to the way the two surviving OS's are not so interoperable with each other, and a sealed slab is mainly not just the embodiment of planned obsolescence, but disposable electronics by intention. Apple really doubled down as an anti-reuse/anti-recycling company along the lines of Microsoft's influence. The experience from horses to cars is a good amount of accurate hindsight, and it was only the early adopters who got cars for quite some time. I would say some equivalence is like with the older technology horse the rider could go places the car never will be able to, but the car did get people where most wanted to go and that's where the roads were because people were already going there. What really did it was getting there faster and the stimulating feeling of speed like never before. With the iPhone it was bigger more flexible screen real estate and the stimulating ability to "watch TV" anytime on a device you were going to carry all the time anyway. Once the mainstream saw what the early adopters were doing there was nothing but envy until they were doing it themselves. Maybe one thing to agree about settling for is the initial neglect for the environmental effect of both transitions.