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What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I

by worik 3y ago

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) is great. Helpful, especially in city driving. I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Stopping at a parking spot, push a button, and park my car for me, less useful but still worth it. But unless I have L5, and can turn my back on the road as I drink my vodka drink, (would that be L6? The impossible dream....) I am not interested in anything that lets me take my hands off the when whilst driving on any road. It seems too dangerous. As a computer programmer I make my living building complex machines, and I have a very deep distrust of machines built by my comrades, at Tesla or Mercedes.

kccqzy 3y ago
You want Waymo then.
generalizations 3y ago
I can easily imagine that multimodal GPT-style LMs running in real-time could do all the common sense thinking that seems to be lacking in modern self driving. That future could be just a 100x optimization away. Edit: multimodal. Does no one remember the vision + language version of GPT4 that microsoft demoed?
- l33t233372 3y ago
  Why do you feel this is a language problem?
- serf 3y ago
  real-time LMs that can be reasonably allowed to take part in life-or-death situations feels a lot further away (to me) than a 100x optimization.
- weakfish 3y ago
  LM = language model I fail to see how that is relevant to computer vision
greyskull 3y ago
> I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Our Bronco Sport has this (steering wheel vibration) in addition to lane assist. I don't like the latter, so I appreciate that I can enable/disable the two modes independently.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  > Our Bronco Sport has this (steering wheel vibration) in addition to lane assist. I don't like the latter, so I appreciate that I can enable/disable the two modes independently. I know it's way more stuff for them to test, but being able to enable/disable individual features is so huge. My blind-spot warning on my Mazda is super sensitive (plus I drive mostly in traffic so any time I put my turn signal on there is a car next to me). I want to be able to turn it off, but since it uses the same sensors as my RCTA, they can only be enabled/disable together. I love the RCTA, so I just have learned to ignore the beeping that invariably happens every time I signal...
dontlaugh 3y ago
I want cheap trains everywhere.
- xyzzyz 3y ago
  You can’t have them both “cheap” and “everywhere”.
  - comte7092 3y ago
    Why not?
    - AussieWog93 3y ago
      You don't get the economies of scale needed to justify high-quality, regular rail service along the more quiet routes. Look at China's high speed rail network. Only a small minority of routes manage to break even, and the rest of them are a huge financial burden that the CCP just accepts because achieving a huge engineering feat creates a sense of national pride.
      - comte7092 3y ago
        Cheap trains everywhere doesn’t have to mean high speed rail everywhere. You can have slower cheaper rail infrastructure that serves less traveled routes.
        AussieWog93 3y ago
        Fair enough, but then nobody wants to use it because it's slow.
        comte7092 3y ago
        I like using the train in America. The main issues I have are that the trips aren’t as frequent as I’d like and often don’t leave on time.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
> I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. The Toyota CH-R my wife had did that. Above 50 km/h / 30mph the steering wheel would gently "shake" if you tried to switch lanes without using your blinker. Several brands/models offer that, sadly sometimes as an extra (FWIW I think it should be illegal to offer that as an extra: it should either come stock or not be offered at all... Safety features shouldn't be something you need to pay for). It's not at all self-driving though. I also enjoyed the side mirrors indicating (using some kind of yellow LED) when there was a vehicle in the blind spot.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Safety features cost money; it doesn’t bother me for them to be optional, especially since the alternative for novel ones is more likely “not offered” or “everyone is forced to buy them” rather than “given away for no charge”.
  - taeric 3y ago
    Safety features also save money, though? Through the safety. Makes sense that we could mandate they exist.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      You can (and we have mandated some). Most of those that are now mandated followed a pattern of being developed as an optional, premium-charge feature, which is unsurprising and probably drives much of the development of new safety features.
idlewords 3y ago
What you want is called a horse!
- tshaddox 3y ago
  But I want a faster horse.
  - worik 3y ago
    ...that eats electricity not hay!
Justsignedup 3y ago
> I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Lane departure warning systems do exactly that. My mazda does this and basically between smart cruise, lane departure warnings, and big old alarms when someone in front of me suddenly hits the break, driving is SO MUCH MENTALLY EASIER. And don't get me started about blindspot alerts and HUDs oh man so amaze. I still think Level 2 assist is worse than no assist. But level 1 assist is fucking amazing. I agree about the parking thing. Its such a novelty thing like "hey hey hey bro check it out" and press a button. "ooooh! Aaaaah" meanwhile I can do the same maneuver in say 10 seconds flat since I've been doing it so long. Honestly maybe in 10 years the feature will be so smooth people will question how to even park without it, like rear cameras.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  I rented a car with that kind of assistance yesterday and I found it annoying that the steering wheel give you some resistance when you want to go back to the main lane after overtaking a car on the opposite one!
  - villeb2 3y ago
    I don't think it does that if you use your turn signal, atleast that's how my car behaves.
  - Justsignedup 3y ago
    You need to use turn signals. Using those the algos know what line crossings to expect. My dad went through this because it forced him to start signalling. This is also probably why I'm seen more and more BMWs use turn signals... maybe it wasn't faulty turn signal wiring after all (/s)
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      Thanks for that. I definitely use turn signals when changing lane to overtake but indeed I don't necessarily do it when returning to the main lane because it is implicit. I am not supposed to drive on the opposite lane indifinetely once the overtake is complete and I am faster than the other car so no warning is needed.
AussieWog93 3y ago
Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would have a similar effect of ultimately making driving less safe and enjoyable. I've never driven a super-modern car, but I do know that I zone out a bit when cruise control is on...
- asdff 3y ago
  Lead footing is a phenomenon exclusive to automatics. Basically, you are on a 35mph road maybe, you lead foot some, the car shifts from third to the overdrive gear, now you are going like 45 or 50mph with the engine barely making any noise, you thinking this is just fine. On a manual, you'd know if you were in third and went to 50mph—the engine would be howling at another couple thousand rpm depending on the car. Going into your overdrive gear would require a conscious effort to shift into it.
  - thrashh 3y ago
    I think it’s a lot of factors because when driving an automatic ‘99 Honda Accord, it’s pretty obvious when you’re not driving 35mph anymore. That said, after driving the same vehicle for a while, at least for me, I can usually guess how fast I’m going.
  - eega 3y ago
    That‘s just silly - I drive my (manually shifted) car basically solely in the highest gear in non-city traffic and have the same effect. Nothing to do with automatic, but with powerful cars.
- baby 3y ago
  The driver test is super hard and expensive in France. Never got it for this reason even after spending 1k euro on it. Came to the US and got the driver license in a week for like 200$ including lessons lol
ericmcer 3y ago
If you live in a high traffic area having your car drive you through the stop and go is currently possible and a huge quality of life increase. Stop and go traffic is 100% the worst experience when driving, having that automated is awesome.
- genocidicbunny 3y ago
  You reminded me of the biggest annoyance I have with the systems that work in stop-and-go traffic that I've tried -- they often leave too much space before they 'go' and where I live, that's just an invitation to have someone from the next lane over jump in. So the car waits too long, takes off quickly to fill the gap, and then has to brake suddenly because someone else already took that gap. You end up being yanked around, and if the driver behind you is a bit of a leadfoot can result in you getting rear ended. I've seen it happen a few times when I still commuted.
baby 3y ago
I’ve been using self-driving cars for a while in SF. I just order one in the app, it comes, drives me to where I want to go. It’s like uber except that it’s for free (for now) and no driver.
0xr0kk3r 3y ago
> What do we want from self driving cars? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I want public transportation infrastructure and far, far, FAR fewer cars. I think the US should strive to reduce car ownership by 75% over the next 20 years, at least in cities over a certain population size. I don't want any more money invested in self-driving cars. But I'm also a grown-up of a certain age and realize the bright-eyed 20-somethings don't understand the meaning of the word "consequences".
- xigency 3y ago
  Yeah, self driving cars would be a step backward as currently imagined. We need high speed rail to connect our cities.
  - vkou 3y ago
    They wouldn't be a step backwards, they'd be a step sideways.
  - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
    What about inside those cities? Like from my apartment on this side of town to the other side.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago
      What about the inside? I live in NYC and its metro and bus system is amazing, and even then it's still worse than what I experienced in Asia, we're for example in Seoul, I did not have to walk more than five minutes to be able to get on a train or bus and when I got off, I similarly did not have to walk more than five minutes to get to my end destination.
      - valval 3y ago
        What about someone who doesn’t want to travel with other people in public transport, and also doesn’t want to walk the 10 minutes of the journey?
duxup 3y ago
I want tell it where I want to go and take a nap. Unrealistic maybe, but it colors my interest or lack of interest in the middle of the road options. Half paying attention systems strikes me as dangerous for people.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deadmutex 3y ago
  > I want tell it where I want to go and take a nap. So, Waymo/Cruise (at this point in time) basically.
Keyframe 3y ago
Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) is great. Helpful, especially in city driving. I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Stopping at a parking spot, push a button, and park my car for me, less useful but still worth it. You already have all of this in a Volvo
- worik 3y ago
  I wish I had a Volvo! Good news.
Dalewyn 3y ago
>Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. You're kind of joking, but this is more practical/safe than it sounds. Most people drive to eat and drink out. You know how they all get home? By driving back. That's driving after drinking however many bottles of beer and glasses of wine. Every night they go out to eat and drink. To put it simply, everyone breaks the law any time we feel like going out. The police everywhere know this, and the only reason they don't camp out at restaurants to arrest everyone is because they themselves are also guilty of the same.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
shepherdjerred 3y ago
> I am not interested in anything that lets me take my hands off the when whilst driving on any road. It seems too dangerous. Hyundai has a lane-keeping assist that centers your car in the lane. It is _very_ good, although of course I am nearly always ready to take over if needed. IMO, smart cruise control + lane assist gets you a great deal of convenience for both day-to-day city traffic, and long-distance trips. The automation is good enough that it is helpful and makes driving much easier, but not so good that your mind switches completely off, so that you're always ready to take over if needed.
ETH_start 3y ago
"That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it." Any computerized system is only going to advance over time, with its theoretical limits far beyond the current state of the technology. So full self-driving is clearly inevitable.
- worik 3y ago
  > Any computerized system is only going to advance over time, with its theoretical limits far beyond the current state of the technology. That is not true
  - ETH_start 3y ago
    Name one class of software, or more pertinently, one class of AI, where that is not true.
lost_tourist 3y ago
I just need a car that will let me catch up on emails or reading the morning paper while it commutes me to work through rush hour traffic
- worik 3y ago
  >I just need a car that will let me catch up on emails or reading the morning paper while it commutes me to work through rush hour traffic Bus? Train?
hguant 3y ago
> What do we want from self driving cars Frankly? I want another 10-15 years of independence for my dad. His eyesight is failing due to a mix of wonky genetics, he's fine driving in daylight, but already has started being much more cautious driving around dusk. I want an AR display that will highlight the road and objects in it. I was LiDAR sensors hitting the brakes if it detects catastrophe. I want the car to augment and extend his ability to use it. That's the big sell of self driving cars. Not "push a button and be whisked away," but having your own abilities enhanced by machine input that would otherwise be inaccessible to you.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  I was impressed with my grandma's foresight when she moved house to within walking distance of a station, so a few years later she could give up the car and maintain her independence and health (from exercise). That currently seems the safer bet than hoping for AI driving/aids, but isn't an option in much of the USA.
ck2 3y ago
The decision making technology is definitely possible, not this year or next but in a decade? Sure, plausible. However removing all the sensors, reducing redundancy, from a high speed moving car to save manufacturing costs and increase profits is in direct conflict with safe driving for the passenger and other people on the road. Many more sensors, much more redundancy, roads that give feedback, networked cars that give feedback, satellites for near realtime external updates, all will make cars eventually drive themselves better than humans. But certainly not "just cameras" that cannot even handle weather without severely compromised guessing. You don't do that in a physical world requiring safety.
firecall 3y ago
I want the technology to prevent others from driving dangerously. And myself, by extension. We all have human moments. Running red lights, mounting pavements to cut corners, brake-checking, dangerous overtaking, inadequate stopping distances, distractions, micro sleeps, accidently accelerating into shop fronts, and just generally phasing out because you are human. I personally hate anti-social driving behaviour. Brake Checking is the stupidest thing I have ever witnesses. It feels like it's becoming a trend here in Australia. Did it originate as aggressive behaviour in the US, or Russia maybe for insurance? It's certainly a recent trend here in Australia.
- cookie_monsta 3y ago
  I drive every day in Australia, thankfully not in peak hour but hundreds of km per week and I have never seen brake checking, didn't know it was a thing, had to Google the term to find out what it means. I have noticed a lot of people failing to keep a safe distance from the car in front (tailgating), though, which is far stupider to me. Maybe the two are related?
- zdbrandon 3y ago
  I don't think I've ever once been "break-checked" in 15 years of driving. Is that something that only happens to people who habitually drive too close to the car in front of them? (Tailgating as we call it here.)
npmaile 3y ago
My 2019 bmw has the automated ruble strips thing, which is pretty nice for long drives.
nonethewiser 3y ago
That’s exactly right. Partial self driving is not only useless but dangerous
voytec 3y ago
> What do we want from self driving cars? Security, by not making human mistakes. But this won't happen for a long time and probably never with people like Musk leading the way. Autonomous vehicles are a poor substitute for long-promised flying cars anyway.
- 878654Tom 3y ago
  Flying cars already exist, they are called helicopters. What you really want is the TCO of a car in a helicopter.
  - voytec 3y ago
    Helicopters are outside of reach of an everyday person. You can't drive them when you feel like it nor start your journey on your suburban driveway.
    - 878654Tom 3y ago
      And so were cars at one point. Helicopters are still "flying cars", airplanes are "flying busses".
opportune 3y ago
> That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. This already exists, provided the route is extensively mapped beforehand, in two separate products (Cruise, Waymo)
ENGNR 3y ago
I reckon a "drive 1-2kms on a designed route and park" capability alone would be pretty useful for city planning. Imagine if instead of needing to put parking spaces everywhere, planners could just plan robust routes that any car could use to go and park itself. You could could achieve it today by telling people to just walk from a car garage, but the uproar whenever there isn't enough parking right next to the exact place they want to stop is too huge for it to ever happen
scoopertrooper 3y ago
> Stopping at a parking spot, push a button, and park my car for me, less useful but still worth it. Car drops me off in front of my destination, then goes off to a parking garage 15 minutes away and parks.
jansan 3y ago
> What do we want from self driving cars? I want a car that will drive the hours of boring ride on the Autobahn. It should take over once I am on the Autobahn, then drive by itself while I am sleeping/working/playing, and then drive to a special "cool-down" parking lot, where it will take a few minutes mandatory break to make sure the driver has time to wake up. From there I will take over again.
jalapenos 3y ago
Why buy "self-drive", when you can already pay a human to drive for a tiny fraction of the price? I haven't driven a car for over ten years, and I don't miss a thing. No traffic misery. No parking misery. No government misery (tickets etc). No spending on never-ending this and that. No getting angry about roadworks or other people cutting me off and other nonsense. It's absolute bliss.
- worik 3y ago
  I live in the country I havetwo modes 1 home to beech with dog. Daily 10k total 2 town for supplies. Weekly 55k total Not really suitable for taxies or Uber.
barbariangrunge 3y ago
> Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) is great. Helpful, especially in city driving. > I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Honda already does both of these, since 2020 at least iirc
- mk67 3y ago
  My 2017/18 civic (not sure which one was the production year) already has all these systems, i.e. adaptive cruise control keeping distance, auto braking before impact, automatic lane-keeping > 70 km/h and rumble warnings.
flakeoil 3y ago
> What do we want from self driving cars? I would say, drive me long distances on the high way. The rest (last mile, city country side) I can do myself. It also aligns with the fact that it is easier to make autonomous driving work for high ways than inside cities etc. This would make taking an airplane less tempting and as my car can fit the whole family we do not need to fill up 4-5 seats in an airplane and we use much less CO2 per passenger.
EarthMephit 3y ago
I'd be happy with a self driving car that could just safely stay in a single lane on a freeway for an hour in good weather while I did something else.
vGPU 3y ago
I’ve been very impressed with some openpilot forks. In some instances I managed to drive 70 miles on the highway without having to make a single correction. It’s about what I want from self driving - keep me in my lane, and keep me from rear-ending the car in front of me. I would never trust tech to let me take a nap while driving.

by worik 3y ago

kccqzy 3y ago

You want Waymo then.

generalizations 3y ago

I can easily imagine that multimodal GPT-style LMs running in real-time could do all the common sense thinking that seems to be lacking in modern self driving. That future could be just a 100x optimization away. Edit: multimodal. Does no one remember the vision + language version of GPT4 that microsoft demoed?

l33t233372 3y ago
Why do you feel this is a language problem?
serf 3y ago
real-time LMs that can be reasonably allowed to take part in life-or-death situations feels a lot further away (to me) than a 100x optimization.
weakfish 3y ago
LM = language model I fail to see how that is relevant to computer vision

greyskull 3y ago

> I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Our Bronco Sport has this (steering wheel vibration) in addition to lane assist. I don't like the latter, so I appreciate that I can enable/disable the two modes independently.

aidenn0 3y ago
> Our Bronco Sport has this (steering wheel vibration) in addition to lane assist. I don't like the latter, so I appreciate that I can enable/disable the two modes independently. I know it's way more stuff for them to test, but being able to enable/disable individual features is so huge. My blind-spot warning on my Mazda is super sensitive (plus I drive mostly in traffic so any time I put my turn signal on there is a car next to me). I want to be able to turn it off, but since it uses the same sensors as my RCTA, they can only be enabled/disable together. I love the RCTA, so I just have learned to ignore the beeping that invariably happens every time I signal...

dontlaugh 3y ago

I want cheap trains everywhere.

xyzzyz 3y ago
You can’t have them both “cheap” and “everywhere”.
- comte7092 3y ago
  Why not?
  - AussieWog93 3y ago
    You don't get the economies of scale needed to justify high-quality, regular rail service along the more quiet routes. Look at China's high speed rail network. Only a small minority of routes manage to break even, and the rest of them are a huge financial burden that the CCP just accepts because achieving a huge engineering feat creates a sense of national pride.
    - comte7092 3y ago
      Cheap trains everywhere doesn’t have to mean high speed rail everywhere. You can have slower cheaper rail infrastructure that serves less traveled routes.
      - AussieWog93 3y ago
        Fair enough, but then nobody wants to use it because it's slow.
        comte7092 3y ago
        I like using the train in America. The main issues I have are that the trips aren’t as frequent as I’d like and often don’t leave on time.

TacticalCoder 3y ago

> I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. The Toyota CH-R my wife had did that. Above 50 km/h / 30mph the steering wheel would gently "shake" if you tried to switch lanes without using your blinker. Several brands/models offer that, sadly sometimes as an extra (FWIW I think it should be illegal to offer that as an extra: it should either come stock or not be offered at all... Safety features shouldn't be something you need to pay for). It's not at all self-driving though. I also enjoyed the side mirrors indicating (using some kind of yellow LED) when there was a vehicle in the blind spot.

sokoloff 3y ago
Safety features cost money; it doesn’t bother me for them to be optional, especially since the alternative for novel ones is more likely “not offered” or “everyone is forced to buy them” rather than “given away for no charge”.
- taeric 3y ago
  Safety features also save money, though? Through the safety. Makes sense that we could mandate they exist.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    You can (and we have mandated some). Most of those that are now mandated followed a pattern of being developed as an optional, premium-charge feature, which is unsurprising and probably drives much of the development of new safety features.

idlewords 3y ago

What you want is called a horse!

tshaddox 3y ago
But I want a faster horse.
- worik 3y ago
  ...that eats electricity not hay!

Justsignedup 3y ago

> I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Lane departure warning systems do exactly that. My mazda does this and basically between smart cruise, lane departure warnings, and big old alarms when someone in front of me suddenly hits the break, driving is SO MUCH MENTALLY EASIER. And don't get me started about blindspot alerts and HUDs oh man so amaze. I still think Level 2 assist is worse than no assist. But level 1 assist is fucking amazing. I agree about the parking thing. Its such a novelty thing like "hey hey hey bro check it out" and press a button. "ooooh! Aaaaah" meanwhile I can do the same maneuver in say 10 seconds flat since I've been doing it so long. Honestly maybe in 10 years the feature will be so smooth people will question how to even park without it, like rear cameras.

prmoustache 3y ago
I rented a car with that kind of assistance yesterday and I found it annoying that the steering wheel give you some resistance when you want to go back to the main lane after overtaking a car on the opposite one!
- villeb2 3y ago
  I don't think it does that if you use your turn signal, atleast that's how my car behaves.
- Justsignedup 3y ago
  You need to use turn signals. Using those the algos know what line crossings to expect. My dad went through this because it forced him to start signalling. This is also probably why I'm seen more and more BMWs use turn signals... maybe it wasn't faulty turn signal wiring after all (/s)
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    Thanks for that. I definitely use turn signals when changing lane to overtake but indeed I don't necessarily do it when returning to the main lane because it is implicit. I am not supposed to drive on the opposite lane indifinetely once the overtake is complete and I am faster than the other car so no warning is needed.

AussieWog93 3y ago

Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would have a similar effect of ultimately making driving less safe and enjoyable. I've never driven a super-modern car, but I do know that I zone out a bit when cruise control is on...

asdff 3y ago
Lead footing is a phenomenon exclusive to automatics. Basically, you are on a 35mph road maybe, you lead foot some, the car shifts from third to the overdrive gear, now you are going like 45 or 50mph with the engine barely making any noise, you thinking this is just fine. On a manual, you'd know if you were in third and went to 50mph—the engine would be howling at another couple thousand rpm depending on the car. Going into your overdrive gear would require a conscious effort to shift into it.
- thrashh 3y ago
  I think it’s a lot of factors because when driving an automatic ‘99 Honda Accord, it’s pretty obvious when you’re not driving 35mph anymore. That said, after driving the same vehicle for a while, at least for me, I can usually guess how fast I’m going.
- eega 3y ago
  That‘s just silly - I drive my (manually shifted) car basically solely in the highest gear in non-city traffic and have the same effect. Nothing to do with automatic, but with powerful cars.
baby 3y ago
The driver test is super hard and expensive in France. Never got it for this reason even after spending 1k euro on it. Came to the US and got the driver license in a week for like 200$ including lessons lol

ericmcer 3y ago

If you live in a high traffic area having your car drive you through the stop and go is currently possible and a huge quality of life increase. Stop and go traffic is 100% the worst experience when driving, having that automated is awesome.

genocidicbunny 3y ago
You reminded me of the biggest annoyance I have with the systems that work in stop-and-go traffic that I've tried -- they often leave too much space before they 'go' and where I live, that's just an invitation to have someone from the next lane over jump in. So the car waits too long, takes off quickly to fill the gap, and then has to brake suddenly because someone else already took that gap. You end up being yanked around, and if the driver behind you is a bit of a leadfoot can result in you getting rear ended. I've seen it happen a few times when I still commuted.

baby 3y ago

I’ve been using self-driving cars for a while in SF. I just order one in the app, it comes, drives me to where I want to go. It’s like uber except that it’s for free (for now) and no driver.

0xr0kk3r 3y ago

> What do we want from self driving cars? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I want public transportation infrastructure and far, far, FAR fewer cars. I think the US should strive to reduce car ownership by 75% over the next 20 years, at least in cities over a certain population size. I don't want any more money invested in self-driving cars. But I'm also a grown-up of a certain age and realize the bright-eyed 20-somethings don't understand the meaning of the word "consequences".

xigency 3y ago
Yeah, self driving cars would be a step backward as currently imagined. We need high speed rail to connect our cities.
- vkou 3y ago
  They wouldn't be a step backwards, they'd be a step sideways.
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  What about inside those cities? Like from my apartment on this side of town to the other side.
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    What about the inside? I live in NYC and its metro and bus system is amazing, and even then it's still worse than what I experienced in Asia, we're for example in Seoul, I did not have to walk more than five minutes to be able to get on a train or bus and when I got off, I similarly did not have to walk more than five minutes to get to my end destination.
    - valval 3y ago
      What about someone who doesn’t want to travel with other people in public transport, and also doesn’t want to walk the 10 minutes of the journey?

duxup 3y ago

I want tell it where I want to go and take a nap. Unrealistic maybe, but it colors my interest or lack of interest in the middle of the road options. Half paying attention systems strikes me as dangerous for people.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deadmutex 3y ago
> I want tell it where I want to go and take a nap. So, Waymo/Cruise (at this point in time) basically.

Keyframe 3y ago

Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) is great. Helpful, especially in city driving. I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Stopping at a parking spot, push a button, and park my car for me, less useful but still worth it. You already have all of this in a Volvo

worik 3y ago
I wish I had a Volvo! Good news.

Dalewyn 3y ago

>Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. You're kind of joking, but this is more practical/safe than it sounds. Most people drive to eat and drink out. You know how they all get home? By driving back. That's driving after drinking however many bottles of beer and glasses of wine. Every night they go out to eat and drink. To put it simply, everyone breaks the law any time we feel like going out. The police everywhere know this, and the only reason they don't camp out at restaurants to arrest everyone is because they themselves are also guilty of the same.

deleted 3y ago
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shepherdjerred 3y ago

> I am not interested in anything that lets me take my hands off the when whilst driving on any road. It seems too dangerous. Hyundai has a lane-keeping assist that centers your car in the lane. It is _very_ good, although of course I am nearly always ready to take over if needed. IMO, smart cruise control + lane assist gets you a great deal of convenience for both day-to-day city traffic, and long-distance trips. The automation is good enough that it is helpful and makes driving much easier, but not so good that your mind switches completely off, so that you're always ready to take over if needed.

ETH_start 3y ago

"That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it." Any computerized system is only going to advance over time, with its theoretical limits far beyond the current state of the technology. So full self-driving is clearly inevitable.

worik 3y ago
> Any computerized system is only going to advance over time, with its theoretical limits far beyond the current state of the technology. That is not true
- ETH_start 3y ago
  Name one class of software, or more pertinently, one class of AI, where that is not true.

lost_tourist 3y ago

I just need a car that will let me catch up on emails or reading the morning paper while it commutes me to work through rush hour traffic

worik 3y ago
>I just need a car that will let me catch up on emails or reading the morning paper while it commutes me to work through rush hour traffic Bus? Train?

hguant 3y ago

> What do we want from self driving cars Frankly? I want another 10-15 years of independence for my dad. His eyesight is failing due to a mix of wonky genetics, he's fine driving in daylight, but already has started being much more cautious driving around dusk. I want an AR display that will highlight the road and objects in it. I was LiDAR sensors hitting the brakes if it detects catastrophe. I want the car to augment and extend his ability to use it. That's the big sell of self driving cars. Not "push a button and be whisked away," but having your own abilities enhanced by machine input that would otherwise be inaccessible to you.

Symbiote 3y ago
I was impressed with my grandma's foresight when she moved house to within walking distance of a station, so a few years later she could give up the car and maintain her independence and health (from exercise). That currently seems the safer bet than hoping for AI driving/aids, but isn't an option in much of the USA.

ck2 3y ago

The decision making technology is definitely possible, not this year or next but in a decade? Sure, plausible. However removing all the sensors, reducing redundancy, from a high speed moving car to save manufacturing costs and increase profits is in direct conflict with safe driving for the passenger and other people on the road. Many more sensors, much more redundancy, roads that give feedback, networked cars that give feedback, satellites for near realtime external updates, all will make cars eventually drive themselves better than humans. But certainly not "just cameras" that cannot even handle weather without severely compromised guessing. You don't do that in a physical world requiring safety.

firecall 3y ago

I want the technology to prevent others from driving dangerously. And myself, by extension. We all have human moments. Running red lights, mounting pavements to cut corners, brake-checking, dangerous overtaking, inadequate stopping distances, distractions, micro sleeps, accidently accelerating into shop fronts, and just generally phasing out because you are human. I personally hate anti-social driving behaviour. Brake Checking is the stupidest thing I have ever witnesses. It feels like it's becoming a trend here in Australia. Did it originate as aggressive behaviour in the US, or Russia maybe for insurance? It's certainly a recent trend here in Australia.

cookie_monsta 3y ago
I drive every day in Australia, thankfully not in peak hour but hundreds of km per week and I have never seen brake checking, didn't know it was a thing, had to Google the term to find out what it means. I have noticed a lot of people failing to keep a safe distance from the car in front (tailgating), though, which is far stupider to me. Maybe the two are related?
zdbrandon 3y ago
I don't think I've ever once been "break-checked" in 15 years of driving. Is that something that only happens to people who habitually drive too close to the car in front of them? (Tailgating as we call it here.)

npmaile 3y ago

My 2019 bmw has the automated ruble strips thing, which is pretty nice for long drives.

nonethewiser 3y ago

That’s exactly right. Partial self driving is not only useless but dangerous

voytec 3y ago

> What do we want from self driving cars? Security, by not making human mistakes. But this won't happen for a long time and probably never with people like Musk leading the way. Autonomous vehicles are a poor substitute for long-promised flying cars anyway.

878654Tom 3y ago
Flying cars already exist, they are called helicopters. What you really want is the TCO of a car in a helicopter.
- voytec 3y ago
  Helicopters are outside of reach of an everyday person. You can't drive them when you feel like it nor start your journey on your suburban driveway.
  - 878654Tom 3y ago
    And so were cars at one point. Helicopters are still "flying cars", airplanes are "flying busses".

opportune 3y ago

> That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. This already exists, provided the route is extensively mapped beforehand, in two separate products (Cruise, Waymo)

ENGNR 3y ago

I reckon a "drive 1-2kms on a designed route and park" capability alone would be pretty useful for city planning. Imagine if instead of needing to put parking spaces everywhere, planners could just plan robust routes that any car could use to go and park itself. You could could achieve it today by telling people to just walk from a car garage, but the uproar whenever there isn't enough parking right next to the exact place they want to stop is too huge for it to ever happen

scoopertrooper 3y ago

> Stopping at a parking spot, push a button, and park my car for me, less useful but still worth it. Car drops me off in front of my destination, then goes off to a parking garage 15 minutes away and parks.

jansan 3y ago

> What do we want from self driving cars? I want a car that will drive the hours of boring ride on the Autobahn. It should take over once I am on the Autobahn, then drive by itself while I am sleeping/working/playing, and then drive to a special "cool-down" parking lot, where it will take a few minutes mandatory break to make sure the driver has time to wake up. From there I will take over again.

jalapenos 3y ago

Why buy "self-drive", when you can already pay a human to drive for a tiny fraction of the price? I haven't driven a car for over ten years, and I don't miss a thing. No traffic misery. No parking misery. No government misery (tickets etc). No spending on never-ending this and that. No getting angry about roadworks or other people cutting me off and other nonsense. It's absolute bliss.

worik 3y ago
I live in the country I havetwo modes 1 home to beech with dog. Daily 10k total 2 town for supplies. Weekly 55k total Not really suitable for taxies or Uber.

barbariangrunge 3y ago

> Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) is great. Helpful, especially in city driving. > I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane. Honda already does both of these, since 2020 at least iirc

mk67 3y ago
My 2017/18 civic (not sure which one was the production year) already has all these systems, i.e. adaptive cruise control keeping distance, auto braking before impact, automatic lane-keeping > 70 km/h and rumble warnings.

flakeoil 3y ago

> What do we want from self driving cars? I would say, drive me long distances on the high way. The rest (last mile, city country side) I can do myself. It also aligns with the fact that it is easier to make autonomous driving work for high ways than inside cities etc. This would make taking an airplane less tempting and as my car can fit the whole family we do not need to fill up 4-5 seats in an airplane and we use much less CO2 per passenger.

EarthMephit 3y ago

I'd be happy with a self driving car that could just safely stay in a single lane on a freeway for an hour in good weather while I did something else.

vGPU 3y ago

I’ve been very impressed with some openpilot forks. In some instances I managed to drive 70 miles on the highway without having to make a single correction. It’s about what I want from self driving - keep me in my lane, and keep me from rear-ending the car in front of me. I would never trust tech to let me take a nap while driving.