6 ms·

The ultra isn’t in laptops. The ultra in the Mac Pro starts at 7 grand, if you’re going to pay a 4 grand premium, is 200$ of extra power over its lifetime reall

The ultra isn’t in laptops. The ultra in the Mac Pro starts at 7 grand, if you’re going to pay a 4 grand premium, is 200$ of extra power over its lifetime really that important? I have a m2 Max, the battery life is awe inspiring. M2 ultra doesn’t best the competition for its use case.

ddingus 3y ago
It is not the dollars per watt that matters to many users. What matters more than people may realize is battery runtime. The Apple hardware just spanks x86 hardware, unless that hardware is fitted with a big battery, and or a secondary one. I typically run Lenovo hardware, and on my faster machine, I got a very large battery and could get 6 solid hours. And that is at a nice 3Ghz speed too. My current machine (i5) is far slower than the M1 and that hot running Lenovo. (i7) It has two batteries that can yield 5 to 7 hours. Those machines are heavier, slower, bigger, and just feel crappy compared to the M1 Air I have been using. And that thing is crazy good. Battery life is longer, sometimes by a considerable amount. It is great hardware, fast, easy to use, light, you name it.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  If we forget about servers.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    Which we should because no one is using a Mac as a server.
    - astrange 3y ago
      They should (or equivalent product). ARMv8 processors are much more secure than x86 and will continue to improve in ARMv9.
      - 1over137 3y ago
        People used to run Mac OS X servers, but Apple does not care for that market.
    - iCodeSometime 3y ago
      If we only consider web servers. Mac servers are pretty much required for any kind of CICD for Apple development. Just about any company with an iOS or Mac app will have or rent a Mac server.
  - ddingus 3y ago
    Sure. When talking about desktop, personal computing, servers are not really a discussion.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      It is when overreacting the extent of Apple achievements in the industry. Most people in 2nd and 3rd tier countries don't have the necessary means to buy those equipments, and additionally they aren't a presence on servers and embedded markets. So in those markets it doesn't matter if M2 Ultra smashes AMD and Intel, no one will ever use one.
      - ddingus 3y ago
        I has never mattered. I do not understand your point.
  - antifa 3y ago
    M1 mini will make a great home server, would be nice to see someone do a comparison with similar products like Intel NUC for a home server of that size. I'm using an old NUC as a home server and the only drawback is that it only has the capacity for 2 harddrives.
    - diffeomorphism 3y ago
      With 8gb of ram and 256gb of storage? Otherwise it is like $1000. So, yeah that buys you a decent home server, but at that price it is kinda underwhelming considering the limited OS compatibility, ports, size (much larger than a NUC), ...
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  Also, consider how much a PC laptop has to throttle performance if you unplug it from the wall.
  - ddingus 3y ago
    Yes! That is often significant. Sometimes worse than half performance, or it will suck the battery dry fast enough to seriously increase battery life decay.
    - comte7092 3y ago
      And don’t forget cooling! All that extra power draw generates heat.
      - andrekandre 3y ago
        > And don’t forget cooling! All that extra power draw generates heat. which in turn can cause more throttling in a cramped space like a laptop if its not cooled (loudly) enough
- sneak 3y ago
  TFA is about the M2 Ultra chip - it is not available in any system that is battery powered. They are in the Max Studio and Mac Pro only.
kmeisthax 3y ago
Don't waste your money on the Pro, you can get an M2 Ultra in a Mac Studio for $4000. The only reason to buy the Pro is if you have a bunch of really weird PCIe cards[0]. As for the desktop use case... sure, you aren't going to care about the $200 of saved power draw, but not having a very loud and hot machine at your desk has to count for something, right? [0] GPUs won't work, their memory access is locked out in hardware and Apple removed the MPX connectors that powered the Intel GPU modules.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  A proper cooler won't get loud or hot. And as far as heating the room, okay that's an extra $50 of air conditioning to remove the $200 of heat.
- torginus 3y ago
  GPUs won't work at all? Can't you even use them for ML/compute stuff?
  - jsheard 3y ago
    They don't work at all, there are no discrete GPU drivers for ARM macOS. The cooling solution and 1250W(!) power supply they carried over from the 2019 model are kind of hilariously overkill now, I don't think there's anything you still can install into the PCIe slots which comes even remotely close to needing them.
    - grecy 3y ago
      > The cooling solution and 1250W(!) power supply they carried over from the 2019 model are kind of hilariously overkill now I wonder if that's a small hint or giveaway of something coming in the future that will make use of it.... One can hope.
      - jsheard 3y ago
        If they were going to make a dGPU or other big accelerator in the future then I think they would have maintained support for the MPX form factor cards. The new Mac Pro doesn't support MPX, despite being based on the same chassis that MPX debuted with.
hotstickyballs 3y ago
Power isn’t just the stuff coming out of the wall, it’s also the heat you have to dissipate.

ddingus 3y ago

It is not the dollars per watt that matters to many users. What matters more than people may realize is battery runtime. The Apple hardware just spanks x86 hardware, unless that hardware is fitted with a big battery, and or a secondary one. I typically run Lenovo hardware, and on my faster machine, I got a very large battery and could get 6 solid hours. And that is at a nice 3Ghz speed too. My current machine (i5) is far slower than the M1 and that hot running Lenovo. (i7) It has two batteries that can yield 5 to 7 hours. Those machines are heavier, slower, bigger, and just feel crappy compared to the M1 Air I have been using. And that thing is crazy good. Battery life is longer, sometimes by a considerable amount. It is great hardware, fast, easy to use, light, you name it.

pjmlp 3y ago
If we forget about servers.
- threeseed 3y ago
  Which we should because no one is using a Mac as a server.
  - astrange 3y ago
    They should (or equivalent product). ARMv8 processors are much more secure than x86 and will continue to improve in ARMv9.
    - 1over137 3y ago
      People used to run Mac OS X servers, but Apple does not care for that market.
  - iCodeSometime 3y ago
    If we only consider web servers. Mac servers are pretty much required for any kind of CICD for Apple development. Just about any company with an iOS or Mac app will have or rent a Mac server.
- ddingus 3y ago
  Sure. When talking about desktop, personal computing, servers are not really a discussion.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    It is when overreacting the extent of Apple achievements in the industry. Most people in 2nd and 3rd tier countries don't have the necessary means to buy those equipments, and additionally they aren't a presence on servers and embedded markets. So in those markets it doesn't matter if M2 Ultra smashes AMD and Intel, no one will ever use one.
    - ddingus 3y ago
      I has never mattered. I do not understand your point.
- antifa 3y ago
  M1 mini will make a great home server, would be nice to see someone do a comparison with similar products like Intel NUC for a home server of that size. I'm using an old NUC as a home server and the only drawback is that it only has the capacity for 2 harddrives.
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    With 8gb of ram and 256gb of storage? Otherwise it is like $1000. So, yeah that buys you a decent home server, but at that price it is kinda underwhelming considering the limited OS compatibility, ports, size (much larger than a NUC), ...
GeekyBear 3y ago
Also, consider how much a PC laptop has to throttle performance if you unplug it from the wall.
- ddingus 3y ago
  Yes! That is often significant. Sometimes worse than half performance, or it will suck the battery dry fast enough to seriously increase battery life decay.
  - comte7092 3y ago
    And don’t forget cooling! All that extra power draw generates heat.
    - andrekandre 3y ago
      > And don’t forget cooling! All that extra power draw generates heat. which in turn can cause more throttling in a cramped space like a laptop if its not cooled (loudly) enough
sneak 3y ago
TFA is about the M2 Ultra chip - it is not available in any system that is battery powered. They are in the Max Studio and Mac Pro only.

kmeisthax 3y ago

Don't waste your money on the Pro, you can get an M2 Ultra in a Mac Studio for $4000. The only reason to buy the Pro is if you have a bunch of really weird PCIe cards[0]. As for the desktop use case... sure, you aren't going to care about the $200 of saved power draw, but not having a very loud and hot machine at your desk has to count for something, right? [0] GPUs won't work, their memory access is locked out in hardware and Apple removed the MPX connectors that powered the Intel GPU modules.

Dylan16807 3y ago
A proper cooler won't get loud or hot. And as far as heating the room, okay that's an extra $50 of air conditioning to remove the $200 of heat.
torginus 3y ago
GPUs won't work at all? Can't you even use them for ML/compute stuff?
- jsheard 3y ago
  They don't work at all, there are no discrete GPU drivers for ARM macOS. The cooling solution and 1250W(!) power supply they carried over from the 2019 model are kind of hilariously overkill now, I don't think there's anything you still can install into the PCIe slots which comes even remotely close to needing them.
  - grecy 3y ago
    > The cooling solution and 1250W(!) power supply they carried over from the 2019 model are kind of hilariously overkill now I wonder if that's a small hint or giveaway of something coming in the future that will make use of it.... One can hope.
    - jsheard 3y ago
      If they were going to make a dGPU or other big accelerator in the future then I think they would have maintained support for the MPX form factor cards. The new Mac Pro doesn't support MPX, despite being based on the same chassis that MPX debuted with.

hotstickyballs 3y ago

Power isn’t just the stuff coming out of the wall, it’s also the heat you have to dissipate.