11 ms·

Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

143 points by dcminter 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
thx-2718 3y ago
Lately I've been running Fedora. Early Ubtuntu & Mark Shuttleworth were a big part of my teens and my first real experience with a Linux Desktop and Philosophy tied to Open Source Software. It's been fun watching Ubuntu evolve over the years and see distros like Mint evolve off of them as well.
- elischleifer 3y ago
  Devil's advocate...how much do we really care about these different distros at this point. The world lives out of the browser. As long as I have chrome and VS Code I'm pretty good to go.
  - WD-42 3y ago
    When your browser is shipped via a snap and is 2 versions out of date because the update mechanism sucks and has been failing silently for over a month, it makes a difference. There's my personal anecdote.
    - tifik 3y ago
      Firefox through snap has been the last straw for me as well. Not quite enough to ragequit on the spot, but next time I have to install a new OS, it won't be Ubuntu.
    - ffjffsfr 3y ago
      why do you install it from snap? I'm using ubuntu and don't install from snap most of the time.
      - WD-42 3y ago
        It's the default now.
        netule 3y ago
        Yup, and installing Firefox via apt installs a snap as well. I manually had to add a separate apt repo for Firefox alone. I seem to have to do this more and more for things that just can't be slow on my machine.
        midoridensha 3y ago
        Yep, I did the same. But I don't want to mess around with hacks like that any more, so my next distro isn't going to be Ubuntu, even though I've used some Ubuntu variant for over a decade now. I'm looking at Tumbleweed for my next distro.
    - barbariangrunge 3y ago
      I like the security/privacy promises of options like snaps. It seems like other issues, like file sizes, aren’t the worst. And getting it to match your os options seems like a solvable problem. Could somebody explain why they hate these systems?
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        They live in the past of outdated security models.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        I dislike snaps because they introduce inefficiencies and I don't want want applications to each bundle their own copies of the shared libraries they depend on. I also don't want automatic sandboxing.
  - everdrive 3y ago
    I still use applications and my file system.
  - mdp2021 3y ago
    > The world lives out of the browser Exactly: my productive environment is «out of the browser» and I want it to be as fitting as possible, for my efficiency and comfort.
  - jonathankoren 3y ago
    Agree. OSes are practically irrelevant. The only thing I need is a web browser and a terminal with posix like commands. I can (almost) get that on Windows these days. I’ve run Mac for 20 years now, and before that Linux for almost 10. I can’t think of anything I lost when switching beyond focus follows mouse.
    - markstos 3y ago
      You also need some form of window management, and if you like tiling windows, Linux has the most options by far.
      - zdragnar 3y ago
        If you miss focus follows mouse and like tiling windows, i3 and sway both have that option. Others might too, those are the only two I have experience with though.
      - jonathankoren 3y ago
        That's one of the jobs of Finder. And no, I don't like tiling windows.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      One of the downfalls of Linux Desktop, besides the fragmentation, was Apple and Microsoft figuring out that a large majority wants a POSIX like experience, and aren't that deep onto GNU/Linux anyway. There is a certain irony when the Linux Desktop is on minority when looking around laptops at FOSDEM.
  - markstos 3y ago
    I didn't care much about one distro vs another until I found a lot of packages I wanted were packaged for Arch Linux and not Ubuntu Linux, and the Arch Wiki was better than Ubuntu's docs. And also, yes "Snaps" were annoying.
  - lofatdairy 3y ago
    Imo package managers/repos, update cycles, and installation process can still be a reasonable differentiator between distros. Admittedly these decisions are fairly minor -- most popular packages are available on the major repos and you probably aren't installing your distro every day. But even though most the time I'm just living in nvim and Firefox, if adding or changing something becomes a chore it can really expand quickly as I might avoid making a positive change to my system just because I can't overcome the initial inertia from having to bend my distro to my will. Then again, that's probably a sign that I should swallow my pride and switch from Arch to Manjaro at some point.
  - orbital-decay 3y ago
    Good for you I guess, but most features I need aren't offered by web apps. Paradoxically, Linux is the only platform where desktop apps are the default.
    - dabluecaboose 3y ago
      Linux still has its fair share of electron wrapper "applications"
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        There are some, but nothing of real importance (to me, YMMV). There are no electron-based applications that I use.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > The world lives out of the browser Your world does, and I know that it does for many. But mine absolutely doesn't -- there isn't anything critical I use that is browser-based. And many are like me. Different strokes and all that.
  - dboreham 3y ago
    Some people run servers.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- Topfi 3y ago
  Fedora Workstation and especially Silverblue made Linux work for me in a way no distribution I have used before has been able to. Being bleeding edge yet stable and reliable just made it so pleasant, coming from a mix of Slitaz, Elementary and Manjaro.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 3y ago
    Yeah, I agree (although with Kinoite because fuck GNOME). It still has plenty of issues, but at least I don't feel like I'm constantly fighting the system just to use software.
  - mrtedbear 3y ago
    Also switched to Silverblue and love it. Ubuntu wasn't especially bad, it was more that Silverblue made so much sense. It fixed the issues I was having with other distros where messiness would creep into my setup over time. I also tried NixOS, but it felt too rigid. Silverblue offered the same benefits of immutability without a loss of flexibility.
    - howinteresting 3y ago
      Do you do development on it? If so, how do you work around Silverblue's restrictions? Curious about people's experiences.
      - mrtedbear 3y ago
        I do. I use toolboxes for pretty much all my development. I've scripted the setup each type of toolbox I use, so they can be reproduced. I use a terminal editor (neovim), but I think it's possible to run vscode from a toolbox too[1]. For graphical apps (browsers etc.) the flatpaks are very handy. The above setup means I don't really need to layer much in the OS, mainly drivers and common terminal utilities. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/107lvlf/silverblue_questions_toolbox_vscode/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/107lvlf/silverblue_...
      - akvadrako 3y ago
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  Fedora isn't perfect, but it can go for weeks without updates and then update cleanly reliably, which is not something you typically get with rolling distributions. This makes it well suited for use as a dual booted secondary OS or VM OS.
  - sh34r 3y ago
    If you desire stability and you’re already used to Ubuntu derivatives, there’s always Debian.
    - kitsunesoba 3y ago
      The issue with Debian is how old application packages are, and I'm not really into Flatpak. Fedora's packages are pretty close in recency to what's shipping on other platforms.
      - sh34r 3y ago
        Stability and update frequency are inversely correlated. It’s largely an unavoidable trade-off. It makes perfect sense to me that you’d feel that Fedora struck a better balance for you. Many people prefer Debian based distros. Some people use Debian on the desktop because they prefer less frequent updates (among other reasons). I’m just stating the obvious here, really.
      - mcagl 3y ago
        Debian testing is more stable than other "so-called stable" distros, and has often newer packages than the contemporary ubuntu version.
        lmm 3y ago
        Debian testing puts you in a pretty bad place in terms of security updates; you're not getting new upstream releases as quickly as unstable/experimental, but they don't do dedicated backports of security fixes like with stable.
  - 3y ago
- bjablonski 3y ago
  I'm super happy with Fedora for ~ 4 years. It's always one/two versions behind (currently 37) and it never gave me any problems (compared to manjaro/arch/ubuntu and few other smaller distro that I've used, but names escapes me) Fedora seems faster than Ubuntu out of the box on the same hardware. It's also rock solid from my experience. That may be somehow related to docker doing heavy lifting when needed. Ofc YMMV.
- barbariangrunge 3y ago
  I found the installer was lacking something I typically wanted. Disk encryption maybe? Or maybe it’s partitioning or file system options were limited? Can’t recall. It kept me from trying it out full time at one point
  - speed_spread 3y ago
    The installer having disk encryption is one of the reasons I chose Fedora. I use Kinoite with btrfs over LUKS, FWIW.
Havoc 3y ago
They do seem pretty determined to antagonize users so yeah I can see how people move away
markstos 3y ago
I also ditched Ubuntu after using it for over a decade and went to Arch Linux, which Manjaro is based on. Seems to be a common migration story.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  I used Arch for years but switched to Ubuntu because I got tired of coping with Arch's broken networking in the default kernels, and then they shipped a totally broken avr-gcc which prevented me from doing actual proper work. This was a while ago, probably about ten years ago, and I've used Ubuntu ever since.
user6723 3y ago
Manjaro is a nice hobbyist distro but it's not a distro to be taken seriously.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  I've been using Manjaro for three years without issue. What gives?
  - slabity 3y ago
    Isn't Manjaro the distro that constantly fails to renew their SSL certificates, pushes security updates way too late, and distributed software that brought down the AUR a couple of times? I have never used it myself, but from everything I've heard about it I'm kind of surprised how popular it is.
    - smcin 3y ago
      'AUR' = Arch User Repository on Manjaro. Non-Manjaro users won't know that acronym.
- fredoliveira 3y ago
  I'll bite. Why?
dyingkneepad 3y ago
Just a reminder to everybody, Debian 12 is about to release in 2 days. A few years ago I moved back from Ubuntu to Debian and couldn't be happier.
- cabirum 3y ago
  How do you deal with grossly outdated software on Debian Desktop?
  - prottog 3y ago
    FWIW I run Debian bullseye on the desktop and don't have any issues with any of the software I use, like web browsers and IM clients. I'm not running anything fancy locally so perhaps it's an unusual case, and I will admit that I can't print from my desktop for reasons I've never bothered to look into, so the experience isn't 100%; but I prefer it to running Windows, which is becoming more and more like an OS-as-a-service-with-ads by the day.
  - muppetman 3y ago
    You deal with it by being happy that it doesn't constantly change UI/Interface/Features and break your workflow unexpectedly sometimes. Yes, you don't always have the latest and greatest and if that's a solid requirement, Debian isn't a good choice. But for a stable, not-going-to-change-out-from-under-you point of view, Debian is fantastic. Software you can rely on that's still patched for security issues.
    - caycep 3y ago
      isn't there a testing/"unstable" version that has the latest/greatest? I had heard it was roughly as stable as ubuntu...
      - pavon 3y ago
        unstable is a bit of an odd fit for most purposes. For 6 months leading up to a stable release it is frozen, so few packages are being updated, then for 6 months after a stable release there is a bunch of churn and things can get a bit unstable, and then for about a year it is like running a rolling release, albeit one that isn't as up-to-date as Arch. I feel most people who want up-to-date packages would be better off running Arch or Fedora.
jmakov 3y ago
Made the switch, never happier.
sparrish 3y ago
Snaps are awful. Even simple programs like 'calculator' take multiple seconds to start. I'm planning to bail on Ubuntu soon as well.
- dspillett 3y ago
  Sounds like they worked too hard on making things feel safe and familiar to Windows users who might want to migrate.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    Ah yes, the mythical Windows user who's finally ready to switch to Linux now after all these decades.
    - convery 3y ago
      Surely this year is the year of the Linux desktop.. surely..
    - dspillett 3y ago
      You do make a correct point, but it doesn't seem that you realise that you were responding to something that was far more snarky joke about the quality of Windows than serious idea of people switching or not based on calculator performance.
- Spivak 3y ago
  I cannot understand why they did the weird squashfs thing that murders their first start performance over sacrificing a little disk space. It's such an odd technical choice that makes snap look bad for a few megs.
  - whoknowswhat11 3y ago
    No kidding, especially for programs that aren’t that big.
sdfghswe 3y ago
I said bye to ubuntu after the snap debacle. Using debian now.
Phelinofist 3y ago
I only know Manjaro in name from the disgust-filled messages in the #archlinux IRC
olavgg 3y ago
I still use (K)Ubuntu desktop, but for servers I feel Centos Stream 9 is best choice for a homelab at the moment. Debian is also good. What these two distros have over Ubuntu, is easy and clear documentation. Ubuntu Server adds so much noise, they are changing too many things over the years. Network configuration documentation is a mess. I'm tired of googling for an example thats updated. For Centos I easily find examples that includes how to configure network services correctly with SELinux. Extra security without time wasted is good!
- justsomehnguy 3y ago
  > Centos Stream 9 Rocky Linux?
- lgp171188 3y ago
  Kubuntu is awesome! Using an LTS version which provides a solid base and then using the kubuntu-backports PPA to get the latest KDE Plasma stuff works great in my experience.
monsieurgaufre 3y ago
I see all of this complaining about snaps and the "direction" Canonical takes as a purity constest. Yes, Snaps can be annoying (it isn't in my case). Yes, Canonical is far from perfect. The Snap hate is really overblown. I'm using some to work daily and, apart from the annoying notification that appears far less than before (like once by a blue moon now on my system), they work exactly like .deb files. Every OS suck in their own specific way. Fix the problems or move on to your new and shiny evergreen OS.
- talkingtab 3y ago
  I don't think it is so much the snaps that are the problem, but that it is hard to get around them. I choose not to use snaps (or would like to choose that), but I find I am constantly fighting them. Why do I have a mount of some snap thing? Why does Firefox have to be a snap? I have enough things to know about without having to learn about snaps. sigh. So I am moving away from Ubuntu after years of being a happy user. It is not a hate thing, it is because either the choice to use snaps is not mine or because I am too stupid to know how to get rid of them.
  - monsieurgaufre 3y ago
    What are you constantly fighting with snaps about? What snaps are you using that are so broken that you have to fight with it? I mean that seriously. I've never had this experience and I've used Ubuntu for ~15 years.
    - ripe 3y ago
      Not the poster you're responding to, but I am finding it very hard to use Firefox on my Ubuntu 22.04 laptop consistently ever since it started prompting me to install the snap version. The snap wouldn't install, I couldn't figure out how to make it work, it seemed to get stuck trying to mount something from some unspecified device. I needed Firefox to keep working, but was forced to stop work to figure out what was broken. Decided to go around it. Went to some unofficial mozilla PPA with "apt" incantations to force the apt version to take precedence. This version also mysteriously stops upgrading when the snap version becomes newer, or something. I am forced to reinstall it periodically. Possibly a Firefox packaging bug, or maybe I'm not clever enough to understand the interdependencies between apt and snap. The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't want to debug this snap thing that I never asked for. I feel like I am dealing with some corporation, not open source software. As soon as I get some down time, I'll say bye-bye to Ubuntu.
pimterry 3y ago
I've been using Regolith (Ubuntu + well-integrated i3) happily for a while, but the Snap moves from Ubuntu are a massive turn-off. Looks like Regolith can in theory be installed on top of Pop!_OS which seems to target the same audience while going in a more sensible direction. Anybody tried that combo, or have any feedback on PopOS in general?
- newsch 3y ago
  I switched over to Pop OS and Regolith 2 about a month ago and I'm very happy with it, it's the same experience as using it with Ubuntu. I have had some trouble with the Pop Shop leaking memory, freezing, and crashing, but you can disable it and use Gnome Software if you want a gui.
- mrtedbear 3y ago
  I found Regolith nice to use except for the configuration. It seems to split the configuration into a bunch of files rather than just a standard i3 config file.
- ntnsndr 3y ago
  Pop is generally great. Surprised it is not being discussed here more. It is Ubuntu + Flatpak + Nice UX improvement improvements
- djcannabiz 3y ago
  Regolith looks really cool, thanks for sharing. Gonna check this out tonight
epage 3y ago
I gave up on Ubuntu after some snap frustrations. I tried Nix but couldn't figure out how to install some software I needed (dealt with plugins). I tried Manjaro but the system was unbootable after a software update soon after install and I just don't want to fight problems like that anymore. I've been using Mint but recently am giving PopOs a try but they've not fixed enough of the Gnome 3 usability problems. Been a deb used for decades at this point but maybe I'll give Fedora a try next, either going with XFCE (like I did with Mint) or KDE.
- benrutter 3y ago
  If you're coming from "Ubuntu was what I needed but sucks with recent decisions" have you thought about using popOs with a different desktop environment? (like xfce, or KDE) My experience is you get what Ubuntu used to have that way, i.e. no thrills reliability, so would definitely recommend it
- pessimizer 3y ago
  Why not Debian?
vanviegen 3y ago
I made the same switch for the same reasons about three years ago. I have no regrets! Also, as a CS teacher I've been forcing about 80 students to run Manjaro KDE full-time. The complaining is not nearly as loud as one would imagine. :-)
WD-42 3y ago
Arch Linux is a meme but also a really solid distro. I'm writing this from a 2+ year old Arch install that has had basically 0 stability issues. "Rolling release" gets an undeserved bad reputation in my opinion, and many arch packages aren't as bleeding edge as you'd expect. Compared to Ubuntu where I'd often have major issues in between releases, I don't think I could ever go back.
- krastanov 3y ago
  I moved to Arch last week because I did not have a USB drive large enough for the new Ubuntu install iso and they did not provide a net installer either (it is a new PC). The silliest reason, but now I find Arch lovely and everything works for me (including typically fragile things). Weird how such a silly thing led to switching away after 15 years as an Ubuntu user.
- cryo 3y ago
  Same here, every system is different, but my main desktop Arch installation is kicking since 6 years now with absolute minimal maintenance issues. Perhaps 1-2 times per year maximum things need to be fixed manually in super rare cases.
- MegaDeKay 3y ago
  Arch has been working great for me on both my ancient laptop and my Ryzen PC for ages now. And whenever I do run into a problem or want to learn something new, I've always got the truly excellent Arch Wiki to back me up. Even those running a different distribution will often refer to it to solve a problem. I expect even greater things from Arch in the future with Valve's use of this distro on the Steam Deck.
- the_pwner224 3y ago
  I've been running Arch for about a decade now and it's only seriously broken a few (low single digits) times. Here are the main failure modes I've experienced: The biggest one seems to be something related to the package mirrors only partially updating, or updates of common dependencies not being atomically applied to all packages - something like that. If you do a pacman -Syu in the middle of the critical time period, the system will fail to work with some core libs (libc, libicu) not being compatible. Booting into a recovery session and doing pacman -Syu again fixes it. However, it's been years since I experienced this - maybe they've taken some steps to eliminate this failure mode? The other big (but still rare) failure mode is bugs in the kernel. The fix is simple, keep linux-lts installed alongside the standard linux kernel, so you can always boot into lts from the bootloader if the regular kernel doesn't work. User software can have bugs in newer releases, but they're usually minor - you'll still be able to get work done without much disruption. And that's not really an Arch issue. Unless the bug is reported & fixed very quickly, Ubuntu/Fedora are likely to also get the buggy versions, just later. Aside from the first failure mode, the OS itself doesn't fail. I've had bad experiences with upgrading between major releases of distros like Ubuntu. They're bloated to begin with, and accumulate more cruft over time and major upgrades. Arch just works. Plus, there's lots of software in the official repos, and the AUR / package build system is also excellent - far superior to the whole PPA mess on Debian/Ubuntu, and the equivalent on Fedora.
Fwirt 3y ago
If you have the stomach for starting from nothing and installing only what you need, Alpine is wonderful. It uses musl libc so there are some things you need flatpaks for, but the vast majority of stuff I've tried just works, and it's small enough that the entire OS is comprehensible to a mere mortal.
- schemescape 3y ago
  I'm also using Alpine, but 100% of binary distributions of software I've tried have failed to run. Even AppImages don't run on Alpine, due to lack of glibc. It's honestly pretty frustrating--though I don't blame Alpine for this! As a mitigation, I use Nix to run anything that isn't packaged for Alpine (e.g. Deno), and that actually works pretty well, but having a parallel set of libraries kind of defeats my whole purpose for running Alpine, namely a having trim system without any bloat (on a netbook with 1 GB of RAM).
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    You can install glibc on Alpine but it's a shitemare from start to finish. Better to stick to Arch for a very similar user experience.
    - schemescape 3y ago
      Yeah, I've found just using Nix on Alpine for glibc-dependent stuff to be the simplest workflow. Note that, in my case, I'm not using Alpine for the "user experience", but solely because it is the most lightweight distribution (important when running on a machine with 1 GB of RAM). I was able to set up a C programming environment on a Raspberry Pi in only 300 MB... of disk space, not RAM! :)
galkk 3y ago
I'm was sticking to ubuntu because 1. NVidia seem to love debian/ubuntu more that other distros, and in general I don't want to waste much time with setting up machine learning env/CUDA on my machines 2. work has debian based distro, so using same tool/mindset is convenient but I really want to get rid of it because of snaps and overall attitute (previous controversies with their unity desktop manager, ads in it etc). I kind of didn't cared much then as I switched to Mint linux (even that had different distro names to annoy when need to set nvidia) and went back then ubuntu + i3. Right now it seems it's time to ditch ubuntu completely.
- belval 3y ago
  Anecdotal but I've had a lot less cuda/nvidia driver breaking moments with Arch than Ubuntu.
- xcdzvyn 3y ago
  Enabling proprietary nvidia drivers on NixOS: services.xserver.videoDrivers = [ "nvidia" ]; Here's how you'd create a development environment that explicitly uses CUDA: { outputs = { self, nixpkgs }: let pkgs = import nixpkgs { inherit x86_64-linux; config.allowUnfree = true; config.cudaSupport = true; }; in { # Environment }; }; } I've never had NixOS break doing just about anything, including nvidia stuff.
- KronisLV 3y ago
  > but I really want to get rid of it because of snaps If you want something on the desktop that is close enough to Ubuntu but without the snaps, you might want to have a look at Linux Mint: https://linuxmint.com/ https://linuxmint.com/ Or some might also just use Debian with a desktop environment installed, there's not too many reasons to not do that.
dabluecaboose 3y ago
I've dabbled with various flavors of Linux for a few years. Started with Ubuntu in college, then ran Linux Mint for about 6 months on my gaming rig before giving up and going back to Windows. Most recently, I had Manjaro running on my Thinkpad for about 3 years before I wiped it and put W10 on it for my fiancee. Since getting a Steam Deck I've been eyeballing Linux on the desktop again, having seen firsthand how well Proton works. Having effectively been a Linux baby 3 times, I have to say Manjaro was everything I thought Ubuntu would be when I tried it. I remember Ubuntu being intractable, hard to use, and weird to update. Manjaro seemed almost effortless to use, and honestly I'd probably recommend it to a Windows user over any other offerings at the current juncture.
ed25519FUUU 3y ago
I read through the comments here and I’m not excited at all about using something other than Ubuntu. Instead I’m solidly confident that macOS as a daily driver is the right choice for a busy developer who doesn’t want to mess with stuff.
- Topfi 3y ago
  Over a year ago, I switched to an M1 Max 14-inch as my main computer from an AMD Renoir equipped laptop running Fedora Silverblue with Pantheon. Previously used MacOS from Snow Leopard to Yosemite and very much liked it back then. Everyone of course is going to have different experiences, but I continue to be disappointed how issue ridden MacOS Ventura has been for me. My Fedora laptop could run for weeks without the need for a reboot (honestly only necessary because I used Silverblue which is immutable), whereas my Macbook constantly has issues adjusting scaling when plugging in a monitor during sleep (necessitating logging out and in), or randomly failing to connect to any WiFi connection after waking up, requiring a full reboot around three times a week. The settings app is appalling too, I genuinely am flabbergasted how sluggish (as in not loading settings pages for multiple seconds) it can be, especially considering the hardware. Very rarely, Xcode will try to open even though I set VSCode as the default for that file type, but this may be user error (though I don't see what else I can do beyond click that tick). Also, though this is more their design than a fault, I have become far to reliant on dnf via toolbox and whilst I am thankful for Homebrew, I can't stop feeling that a more integrated package manager would make MacOS more usable. Worst of all though is how MacOS handles USB peripherals. Upon plugging in, it should ask for confirmation, a good idea in theory. But for me, no matter the device (printer, usb drive, hub, display), this confirmation window only appears for a split second before disappearing. I then have to unplug and replug the cable about five times before, for some magic reason, the confirmation window stays upon permanently and I can actually interact with it. I tried a fresh install and spend a bit of time on the phone with customer support, neither helped. Simply cannot see MacOS as the choice for someone who needs to rely on their machine in this state. I'm constantly testing the Asahi Fedora Remix[0] and cannot wait for that to be at a level where I can use it day-to-day. The hardware is amazing, but the software really needs to be improved. [0] https://pagure.io/fedora-asahi/asahi-repos/tree/main https://pagure.io/fedora-asahi/asahi-repos/tree/main
SweetestRug 3y ago
I made the same move a few years ago and honestly never looked back. Manjaro might have its warts, but it works really well, has an active community, and gives almost all the advantages of Arch (the AUR is amazing!) for "cowards" like me. Manjaro "just worked" and it has been extremely easy to roll with the updates since install. I have since migrated other machines to Manjaro happily.
- adhesive_wombat 3y ago
  > the AUR is amazing Every time I end up on the Ubuntu machine: "sudo apt install somet<tab><tab>" nothing. Urgh. Off I go to Google "install <package> Ubuntu" and visit some third party website for a .deb. If I wanted to circumvent the packaging system by default, I'd use Windows.
  - michaelcampbell 3y ago
    Our realities must be very different; I have never had to side-load a .deb. I honestly didn't even consider that tab-completion on apt might be a thing; I usually search with grep for what I want, but I've never not had something be there. I guess my needs are meager.
    - Gordonjcp 3y ago
      Proper Binary Chrome (not Chromium), Minecraft, MS Edge, and I'm sure there was something else I needed to install recently where I needed to download a .deb and run "sudo dpkg -i <thing>" Okay, I don't *need* to install Minecraft, but I like it. Yes, Edge works just great on Linux, probably better than it does on Windows. I am not a typical Linux user. I have been doing weird and unsupported shit with it since kernel 0.93 and I know what I'm getting into before I unscrew the lid.
therealmarv 3y ago
I don't want snaps anywhere. Definitely not on the server (ever looked how much RAM it takes on a machine with 512MB - 1GB of RAM?) and also not on the desktop. I don't have to optimise my machine to get the calculator run within 1-2 seconds, this is just bad by design and there is no excuse. They are an abomination or workaround for problems in OS library packaging (& manager) and OS security concepts. If snaps are so cool why are there no similar concepts in other famous major desktops (even non Linux)?
- krastanov 3y ago
  There are similar concepts: I use flatpak on other distros. It is just that flatpaks are not remotely as invasive and inconsistent as snaps (and probably most importantly, not forced on you).
- rlpb 3y ago
  > If snaps are so cool why are there no similar concepts in other famous major desktops (even non Linux)? APKs are pretty much the Android equivalent. In both cases the key features are sandboxing and bundling of dependencies. The stores also work roughly equivalently - like with snaps you can install an APK without a store, and that mechanism is what alternative stores use, but for full integration there's really just one: the Google Play Store. iOS works pretty much the same way too, as far as I understand.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > there's really just one: the Google Play Store. And sideloading. I prefer to sideload when possible.
    - rlpb 3y ago
      As I said: like with snaps you can install an APK without a store
pc2g4d 3y ago
Maybe ten years ago I jumped from Ubuntu to Fedora, can't remember why - just wanted to shake things up maybe? This year I installed Mint on my main machine. Contemplating a switch to Debian 12 when it's out - but might not bother, Mint has been really nice. What drove me from Fedora was mostly the need to upgrade every 6 months, and the short support windows.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  My only problems with Mint is that I don't care about Cinnamon, and when things go wrong the only forum that will help you with that particular frankendebian is the Mint forum, which is woefully inadequate. If you want to quickly fix what's broken, Arch, Debian, and Fedora are aces, everything else is trouble imo.
  - CaptainNegative 3y ago
    Why not use the MATE edition?
  - hawk_ 3y ago
    I have used Mint with xfce4/xmonad as my daily driver for six years now. Haven't had any issues and I have continued upgrading.
deleted 3y ago
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Xeamek 3y ago
Didn't manjaro fell out of grace and right now the hot new go to is EndeavourOS?
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
> My daily driver is a middle-aged Dell laptop, it’s about five years old but because I invested in the highest spec I could at the time, with an i7 of the day and 16 gigabytes of memory it’s still a contender. I like how they need to defend themselves for using a 5 year old laptop.
- hosteur 3y ago
  What? A top spec 5 year old (2018) laptop should be plenty fast for most common desktop use. I have a 2016 Dell latitude laying around with Debian 11 on it. It is plenty fast for most things. Even running virtual machines in virtual box with gaming (mostly older Windows games I run in a WinXP VM)
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    I'm typing this on a top spec 10 year old laptop. I'm saying it's funny to see them feel that they need to defend that choice.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      How's the battery life on that 10-year-old laptop? The big improvement with modern laptops isn't compute power, it's energy efficiency and thus battery life, and also weight. Modern laptops are a lot easier to carry than 10-year-old models since they weigh a fraction as much.
      - javchz 3y ago
        Depends. I have a t430 that with the right distro last like 4 to 6 hours depending on usage. It's a chunky laptop, but gets me going when I travel to a place where security can be iffy. So looks like an old VCR, and get less attention than an apple logo.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        The battery is good enough for me.
talkingtab 3y ago
I just moved my Raspberry Pi 4 (8MB) from Ubuntu to Debian 11. I run Ubuntu in several other environments so having one common Linux has been good. But Debian 11 is significantly faster. Same hardware, just noticeably faster. There are a few anomalies, I suspect mostly from the fact that Gnome is a post install add on. The Gnome network applet doesn't work but the network works fine. The only thing that is problematic on the PI is Firefox - it lags. I intend to slowly migrate my other systems -Desktop, Digital Ocean to Debian after a bit longer.
- mijkal 3y ago
  Check out DietPi — Debian-based OS with optimized software packages for devices such as Raspberry Pi. And super easy upgrade options. https://dietpi.com https://dietpi.com
  - talkingtab 3y ago
    Thanks!!
ffjffsfr 3y ago
Never noticed any issues with snap, but truth be told I seldom use it for installing anything. If someone is unhappy with snap why use it? There is no requirement to use snap, usually you can get .deb from somewhere, you can find ppa, or install from source.
- dspillett 3y ago
  > If someone is unhappy with snap why use it? That is largely the point. Though they are not using it by moving to a distro where it isn't “native” so they don't have to do things more manually for some packages that they need/want.
- conjuredbytes 3y ago
  Honestly, don't know what distro some of these people are using. Maybe the last time they tried snaps they were slow but they have the same startup speed as anything else now.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >There is no requirement to use snap, usually you can get .deb from somewhere, you can find ppa, or install from source. Yes, because installing Firefox from source, and updating every few days when new security updates are released, is so easy... It is possible to switch to a PPA for Firefox, but installing it isn't quite trivial, since Ubuntu really doesn't want you doing it that way. With this, and so many other decisions that Ubuntu has been making in recent years, it's easier to just find another distro better aligned to my interests.
tkuraku 3y ago
Switch to Debian. Seems more stable and sane than Ubuntu.
- dspillett 3y ago
  It always was - the initial point of Ubuntu from a technical standpoint (there was some mumbo-jumbo about togetherness & whatnot as well as the technical decisions) was taking Debian but compromising a little on some of Debian's hard rules in favour of newer versions and some other tweaks for friendliness. That is why the initial versions were based on Debian:Testing with bits of Debian:Sid where there were security or stability concerns in that branch (back then Testing could lag a noticeable amount on security updates, compared to both the stable and unstable branches), rather than starting with Debian:Stable.
notorandit 3y ago
I did the same. But chose ArchlLinux.
jrm4 3y ago
Let me go ahead and give some love to MX Linux; especially if you're trying to stick with a similar package manager. Right now MX feels like the perfect balance of "light" and "everything just works, pretty nicely." (Their attitude toward Systemd is one thing that got me on board. They had healthy criticism and waited a bit, but weren't all like NEVER EVER! and eventually made room for it.)
pdimitar 3y ago
I've heard a lot of praise for Debian and Ubuntu but the former was regularly kernel-panicking after updates (granted that was 10+ years ago so I am definitely not being up-to-date -- or even fair -- here) and the latter just keeps piling more and more stuff inside itself, defeating the purpose of a Linux box (for me at least; I want something much more minimal than macOS). Not to mention Ubuntu moves more and more stuff to Snap and you get to the ridiculous situation of a basic calculator needing seconds to start. Yeah, frak that. Furthermore, I use various CLI tools regularly in my work and I can't wait for Debian to update them 6 months in the future. I need something that has the minimum amount of background processes but also without suffering any user or developer usability problems; so not like the absolutely minimal set of services but the minimally viable set of services that give you very usable machine without any bloat. Maybe Arch is the best for my criteria but I installed Manjaro and never looked back since (2.5 years now). The only one problem I ever had was I think December 2022 when they shipped an OpenSSH version that hard-deprecated (read: removed / stopped support for) certain crypto algorithms, and my key was of course using one of them. I grumbled but connected a display and keyboard to the machine (it's one of my servers at home), migrated my keys to the new algorithms, put them on a USB pen drive, put them on my workstation and all was right again. Not even once had I any of the "rolling distribution" problems that people mention regularly on Reddit. Of course I might have been lucky. Lately I am meticulously extracting a fully OS-neutral dotfiles configuration (and I am like 95% done) and then will create a OS-neutral bootstrapping set of scripts and will install Manjaro on 2 or 3 of my spare laptops and I expect no problems at all. It's a very "out of your way" distro and I love it for that. (I am aware that there are people who have a beef with Manjaro because apparently they outright "stole" code -- which sounds meaningless to me when we're talking open-source, can somebody explain? -- and just rebranded stuff for themselves but as their user I can egotistically claim this has absolutely zero effect on me, I don't care and I use the distro because it hits the right spots for me.) I love my iMac Pro but the tinkering possibilities are vastly reduced compared to any Linux box (example: I want to experiment with ZFS and BCacheFS but of course both are not supported on a Mac, and virtualization / containerization is much more inefficient -- and slow -- on a Mac compared to a Linux machine). I will very likely be buying an M2 (or M3 when they come out) laptop just for the excellent display and will do my work "on it" by actually remoting to a Linux workstation. Plus, call me an old fart but I'd like my `ps aux` output to be maximum 70 lines long. I want control over my machine. Maybe I'll come crying back to Macs in a few years, who knows. But I'll make a very serious effort to take back control of my computing in the meantime.
constantcrying 3y ago
> thus had to select a distro for which the installation is painless, the learning curve is minimal, and which doesn’t have too many neckbeard quirks. While obviously Manjaro has a nice and pleasant GUI installer, it is a pretty weird distro with many quirks and not having some familiarity with Arch is probably a bad thing. In my personal oppinion I have trusted Arch enough to rely on it for my education, it is a remarkably solid and reliable distro, regardless of the jokes about it. But I wouldn't put the same trust into Manjaro, it is definitely a weirder distro with more points of failure.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
Manjaro isn't much better. They tried to force a proprietary office suite on their users and tried their hand at the adware thing too. Stop relying on "user friendly" distros, you haven't needed them for almost a decade, most common distributions run out of the box with no problems most of the time.
- eli_gottlieb 3y ago
  Really? So if I switched back to Gentoo after 20 years away I would find that I could quickly get a nice desktop environment set up, have the NVIDIA graphics drivers properly installed and compatible, log into my office Wifi and detect the office printer, and be able to install Anaconda and get back to training PyTorch models, within a couple of days?
  - friend_and_foe 3y ago
    Did you pick gentoo for a reason? Maybe because you don't have a point otherwise?
    - eli_gottlieb 3y ago
      Because I used to run Gentoo back when I had spare time for taking care of my operating system, and very much enjoyed the customizability and the efficiency of having every binary on my system compiled for my system.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  You say that, but I can take an SSD out of its wrapper, fit it to a PC, put an Ubuntu USB stick in, and have a fully-functioning machine in five minutes without actually having to interact with it in any way. What else can you recommend that does that?
  - ragingrobot 3y ago
    Fedora. Boot stick, select the drive you want to install to, click install.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nektro 3y ago
Manjaro is worse
zeroweb 3y ago
Ubuntu runs my 12y old laptop and never had an issue. dont use snaps though Thanks Ubuntu maintainers & backers
smcin 3y ago
WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) = Ubuntu, right? Is the user experience under it better?
- JohnFen 3y ago
  You have choices. I have to use WSL at work, and my WSL is running Debian.
- galkk 3y ago
  No, it is virtualized kernel
psuresh 3y ago
Two root partions with one stable debian and another bleeding edge is an option. And a common big home partition for accomodating flatpaks which can be shared by both.
pjmlp 3y ago
Actually for me it was bye bye Desktop Linux, Hello Apple/Google/Microsoft platforms, running GNU/Linux on VMware if needed (or WSL). Or just ssh into a headless instance, keeping the UNIX tradition it was designed for.
smohare 3y ago
[dead]
fuzzfactor 3y ago
The thing about an open source OS is that it can be infiltrated by a bigger more powerful OS company . . .
ceving 3y ago
I am using Debian for more than 20 years and have never missed anything.
squarefoot 3y ago
My actual choices are: Debian for servers and tinkering hardware (including derivatives such as Armbian on non x86 embedded boards), Alpine on small servers and very small/older hardware and Manjaro on my laptops and PCs that I convert to Linux for other people, relatives etc. So far I've been very happy with these three choices, and Manjaro helped a lot to introduce Linux to non tech people.
- barbariangrunge 3y ago
  Why manjaro for those people? What desktop environment?
  - squarefoot 3y ago
    Many of them were/are old people who were used to Windows XP or 7, rarely 8 and beyond, therefore I thought that moving to a XFCE desktop would have been less traumatic for them, and in the end it worked well. XFCE to me is the right balance of features and snappiness, that's the one I use on all my non CLI machines, although I prefer Debian on my main one, but Debian's XFCE defaults on ugly+impractical settings that would need too much work to repeat at each install. I also want to give them a rolling distro, which on Debian can be risky.
bagasme 3y ago
I also made the switch to Debian because I want to get closer to Ubuntu's origin. And when Ubuntu decided to only provide security updates to core applications (and leaving "universe" package users like ImageMagick vulnerable unless they were subscribed to Ubuntu Pro), my migration was the right thing to do. I still do installing snaps (and messing with LXD), though...
- lgp171188 3y ago
  Canonical has provided security updates just for the packages in "main" and the security updates for the rest were provided by community maintainers on a best-effort basis. With Ubuntu Pro, Canonical now provides security updates for more packages than it used to, otherwise. Disclaimer: I work for Canonical but have nothing to do with the distribution or Ubuntu Pro. And I am not speaking on behalf of the company.
oldandboring 3y ago
I switched from Ubuntu to Manjaro a few years ago and I have been very happy. The only issue is that commercial software companies have limited (if any) resources to devote to developing for Linux, so often I find that commercial software is available as a DEB or an RPM and that's it. In most cases if the software is popular enough it can be found in the AUR as what's essentially a "port" if any of you are FreeBSD people. But right now we're evaluating device/endpoint management software and the few solutions that ship agents for Linux all treat Ubuntu as king. We did find one nerdy solution that ships an Arch agent, though.
throitallaway 3y ago
Arch is awesome. It's not a beginner's distro, but once it's set up it tends to keep working. I will never not think of Manjaro as a clown show after this: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/31yayt/manjaro_forgot_to_upgrade_their_ssl_certificate/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/31yayt/manjaro_forgo... https://i.imgur.com/qV7QrQB.png https://i.imgur.com/qV7QrQB.png
6510 3y ago
I don't get how one can have a single computer. The OS is hardly the only thing that can go wrong. I toss a cup of coffee in my laptop the other week. Just switch it off (the lack of a real switch or a plug is wildly annoying here) and leave it off for a good while. Playing with different OS's is also more fun if your life doesn't depend on everything working all of the time.

143 points by dcminter 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Lately I've been running Fedora. Early Ubtuntu & Mark Shuttleworth were a big part of my teens and my first real experience with a Linux Desktop and Philosophy tied to Open Source Software. It's been fun watching Ubuntu evolve over the years and see distros like Mint evolve off of them as well.

elischleifer 3y ago
Devil's advocate...how much do we really care about these different distros at this point. The world lives out of the browser. As long as I have chrome and VS Code I'm pretty good to go.
- WD-42 3y ago
  When your browser is shipped via a snap and is 2 versions out of date because the update mechanism sucks and has been failing silently for over a month, it makes a difference. There's my personal anecdote.
  - tifik 3y ago
    Firefox through snap has been the last straw for me as well. Not quite enough to ragequit on the spot, but next time I have to install a new OS, it won't be Ubuntu.
  - ffjffsfr 3y ago
    why do you install it from snap? I'm using ubuntu and don't install from snap most of the time.
    - WD-42 3y ago
      It's the default now.
      - netule 3y ago
        Yup, and installing Firefox via apt installs a snap as well. I manually had to add a separate apt repo for Firefox alone. I seem to have to do this more and more for things that just can't be slow on my machine.
        midoridensha 3y ago
        Yep, I did the same. But I don't want to mess around with hacks like that any more, so my next distro isn't going to be Ubuntu, even though I've used some Ubuntu variant for over a decade now. I'm looking at Tumbleweed for my next distro.
  - barbariangrunge 3y ago
    I like the security/privacy promises of options like snaps. It seems like other issues, like file sizes, aren’t the worst. And getting it to match your os options seems like a solvable problem. Could somebody explain why they hate these systems?
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      They live in the past of outdated security models.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I dislike snaps because they introduce inefficiencies and I don't want want applications to each bundle their own copies of the shared libraries they depend on. I also don't want automatic sandboxing.
- everdrive 3y ago
  I still use applications and my file system.
- mdp2021 3y ago
  > The world lives out of the browser Exactly: my productive environment is «out of the browser» and I want it to be as fitting as possible, for my efficiency and comfort.
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  Agree. OSes are practically irrelevant. The only thing I need is a web browser and a terminal with posix like commands. I can (almost) get that on Windows these days. I’ve run Mac for 20 years now, and before that Linux for almost 10. I can’t think of anything I lost when switching beyond focus follows mouse.
  - markstos 3y ago
    You also need some form of window management, and if you like tiling windows, Linux has the most options by far.
    - zdragnar 3y ago
      If you miss focus follows mouse and like tiling windows, i3 and sway both have that option. Others might too, those are the only two I have experience with though.
    - jonathankoren 3y ago
      That's one of the jobs of Finder. And no, I don't like tiling windows.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    One of the downfalls of Linux Desktop, besides the fragmentation, was Apple and Microsoft figuring out that a large majority wants a POSIX like experience, and aren't that deep onto GNU/Linux anyway. There is a certain irony when the Linux Desktop is on minority when looking around laptops at FOSDEM.
- markstos 3y ago
  I didn't care much about one distro vs another until I found a lot of packages I wanted were packaged for Arch Linux and not Ubuntu Linux, and the Arch Wiki was better than Ubuntu's docs. And also, yes "Snaps" were annoying.
- lofatdairy 3y ago
  Imo package managers/repos, update cycles, and installation process can still be a reasonable differentiator between distros. Admittedly these decisions are fairly minor -- most popular packages are available on the major repos and you probably aren't installing your distro every day. But even though most the time I'm just living in nvim and Firefox, if adding or changing something becomes a chore it can really expand quickly as I might avoid making a positive change to my system just because I can't overcome the initial inertia from having to bend my distro to my will. Then again, that's probably a sign that I should swallow my pride and switch from Arch to Manjaro at some point.
- orbital-decay 3y ago
  Good for you I guess, but most features I need aren't offered by web apps. Paradoxically, Linux is the only platform where desktop apps are the default.
  - dabluecaboose 3y ago
    Linux still has its fair share of electron wrapper "applications"
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      There are some, but nothing of real importance (to me, YMMV). There are no electron-based applications that I use.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > The world lives out of the browser Your world does, and I know that it does for many. But mine absolutely doesn't -- there isn't anything critical I use that is browser-based. And many are like me. Different strokes and all that.
- dboreham 3y ago
  Some people run servers.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Topfi 3y ago
Fedora Workstation and especially Silverblue made Linux work for me in a way no distribution I have used before has been able to. Being bleeding edge yet stable and reliable just made it so pleasant, coming from a mix of Slitaz, Elementary and Manjaro.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 3y ago
  Yeah, I agree (although with Kinoite because fuck GNOME). It still has plenty of issues, but at least I don't feel like I'm constantly fighting the system just to use software.
- mrtedbear 3y ago
  Also switched to Silverblue and love it. Ubuntu wasn't especially bad, it was more that Silverblue made so much sense. It fixed the issues I was having with other distros where messiness would creep into my setup over time. I also tried NixOS, but it felt too rigid. Silverblue offered the same benefits of immutability without a loss of flexibility.
  - howinteresting 3y ago
    Do you do development on it? If so, how do you work around Silverblue's restrictions? Curious about people's experiences.
    - mrtedbear 3y ago
      I do. I use toolboxes for pretty much all my development. I've scripted the setup each type of toolbox I use, so they can be reproduced. I use a terminal editor (neovim), but I think it's possible to run vscode from a toolbox too[1]. For graphical apps (browsers etc.) the flatpaks are very handy. The above setup means I don't really need to layer much in the OS, mainly drivers and common terminal utilities. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/107lvlf/silverblue_questions_toolbox_vscode/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/107lvlf/silverblue_...
    - akvadrako 3y ago
kitsunesoba 3y ago
Fedora isn't perfect, but it can go for weeks without updates and then update cleanly reliably, which is not something you typically get with rolling distributions. This makes it well suited for use as a dual booted secondary OS or VM OS.
- sh34r 3y ago
  If you desire stability and you’re already used to Ubuntu derivatives, there’s always Debian.
  - kitsunesoba 3y ago
    The issue with Debian is how old application packages are, and I'm not really into Flatpak. Fedora's packages are pretty close in recency to what's shipping on other platforms.
    - sh34r 3y ago
      Stability and update frequency are inversely correlated. It’s largely an unavoidable trade-off. It makes perfect sense to me that you’d feel that Fedora struck a better balance for you. Many people prefer Debian based distros. Some people use Debian on the desktop because they prefer less frequent updates (among other reasons). I’m just stating the obvious here, really.
    - mcagl 3y ago
      Debian testing is more stable than other "so-called stable" distros, and has often newer packages than the contemporary ubuntu version.
      - lmm 3y ago
        Debian testing puts you in a pretty bad place in terms of security updates; you're not getting new upstream releases as quickly as unstable/experimental, but they don't do dedicated backports of security fixes like with stable.
- 3y ago
bjablonski 3y ago
I'm super happy with Fedora for ~ 4 years. It's always one/two versions behind (currently 37) and it never gave me any problems (compared to manjaro/arch/ubuntu and few other smaller distro that I've used, but names escapes me) Fedora seems faster than Ubuntu out of the box on the same hardware. It's also rock solid from my experience. That may be somehow related to docker doing heavy lifting when needed. Ofc YMMV.
barbariangrunge 3y ago
I found the installer was lacking something I typically wanted. Disk encryption maybe? Or maybe it’s partitioning or file system options were limited? Can’t recall. It kept me from trying it out full time at one point
- speed_spread 3y ago
  The installer having disk encryption is one of the reasons I chose Fedora. I use Kinoite with btrfs over LUKS, FWIW.

Havoc 3y ago

They do seem pretty determined to antagonize users so yeah I can see how people move away

markstos 3y ago

I also ditched Ubuntu after using it for over a decade and went to Arch Linux, which Manjaro is based on. Seems to be a common migration story.

Gordonjcp 3y ago
I used Arch for years but switched to Ubuntu because I got tired of coping with Arch's broken networking in the default kernels, and then they shipped a totally broken avr-gcc which prevented me from doing actual proper work. This was a while ago, probably about ten years ago, and I've used Ubuntu ever since.

user6723 3y ago

Manjaro is a nice hobbyist distro but it's not a distro to be taken seriously.

zdragnar 3y ago
I've been using Manjaro for three years without issue. What gives?
- slabity 3y ago
  Isn't Manjaro the distro that constantly fails to renew their SSL certificates, pushes security updates way too late, and distributed software that brought down the AUR a couple of times? I have never used it myself, but from everything I've heard about it I'm kind of surprised how popular it is.
  - smcin 3y ago
    'AUR' = Arch User Repository on Manjaro. Non-Manjaro users won't know that acronym.
fredoliveira 3y ago
I'll bite. Why?

dyingkneepad 3y ago

Just a reminder to everybody, Debian 12 is about to release in 2 days. A few years ago I moved back from Ubuntu to Debian and couldn't be happier.

cabirum 3y ago
How do you deal with grossly outdated software on Debian Desktop?
- prottog 3y ago
  FWIW I run Debian bullseye on the desktop and don't have any issues with any of the software I use, like web browsers and IM clients. I'm not running anything fancy locally so perhaps it's an unusual case, and I will admit that I can't print from my desktop for reasons I've never bothered to look into, so the experience isn't 100%; but I prefer it to running Windows, which is becoming more and more like an OS-as-a-service-with-ads by the day.
- muppetman 3y ago
  You deal with it by being happy that it doesn't constantly change UI/Interface/Features and break your workflow unexpectedly sometimes. Yes, you don't always have the latest and greatest and if that's a solid requirement, Debian isn't a good choice. But for a stable, not-going-to-change-out-from-under-you point of view, Debian is fantastic. Software you can rely on that's still patched for security issues.
  - caycep 3y ago
    isn't there a testing/"unstable" version that has the latest/greatest? I had heard it was roughly as stable as ubuntu...
    - pavon 3y ago
      unstable is a bit of an odd fit for most purposes. For 6 months leading up to a stable release it is frozen, so few packages are being updated, then for 6 months after a stable release there is a bunch of churn and things can get a bit unstable, and then for about a year it is like running a rolling release, albeit one that isn't as up-to-date as Arch. I feel most people who want up-to-date packages would be better off running Arch or Fedora.

jmakov 3y ago

Made the switch, never happier.

sparrish 3y ago

Snaps are awful. Even simple programs like 'calculator' take multiple seconds to start. I'm planning to bail on Ubuntu soon as well.

dspillett 3y ago
Sounds like they worked too hard on making things feel safe and familiar to Windows users who might want to migrate.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  Ah yes, the mythical Windows user who's finally ready to switch to Linux now after all these decades.
  - convery 3y ago
    Surely this year is the year of the Linux desktop.. surely..
  - dspillett 3y ago
    You do make a correct point, but it doesn't seem that you realise that you were responding to something that was far more snarky joke about the quality of Windows than serious idea of people switching or not based on calculator performance.
Spivak 3y ago
I cannot understand why they did the weird squashfs thing that murders their first start performance over sacrificing a little disk space. It's such an odd technical choice that makes snap look bad for a few megs.
- whoknowswhat11 3y ago
  No kidding, especially for programs that aren’t that big.

sdfghswe 3y ago

I said bye to ubuntu after the snap debacle. Using debian now.

Phelinofist 3y ago

I only know Manjaro in name from the disgust-filled messages in the #archlinux IRC

olavgg 3y ago

I still use (K)Ubuntu desktop, but for servers I feel Centos Stream 9 is best choice for a homelab at the moment. Debian is also good. What these two distros have over Ubuntu, is easy and clear documentation. Ubuntu Server adds so much noise, they are changing too many things over the years. Network configuration documentation is a mess. I'm tired of googling for an example thats updated. For Centos I easily find examples that includes how to configure network services correctly with SELinux. Extra security without time wasted is good!

justsomehnguy 3y ago
> Centos Stream 9 Rocky Linux?
lgp171188 3y ago
Kubuntu is awesome! Using an LTS version which provides a solid base and then using the kubuntu-backports PPA to get the latest KDE Plasma stuff works great in my experience.

monsieurgaufre 3y ago

I see all of this complaining about snaps and the "direction" Canonical takes as a purity constest. Yes, Snaps can be annoying (it isn't in my case). Yes, Canonical is far from perfect. The Snap hate is really overblown. I'm using some to work daily and, apart from the annoying notification that appears far less than before (like once by a blue moon now on my system), they work exactly like .deb files. Every OS suck in their own specific way. Fix the problems or move on to your new and shiny evergreen OS.

talkingtab 3y ago
I don't think it is so much the snaps that are the problem, but that it is hard to get around them. I choose not to use snaps (or would like to choose that), but I find I am constantly fighting them. Why do I have a mount of some snap thing? Why does Firefox have to be a snap? I have enough things to know about without having to learn about snaps. sigh. So I am moving away from Ubuntu after years of being a happy user. It is not a hate thing, it is because either the choice to use snaps is not mine or because I am too stupid to know how to get rid of them.
- monsieurgaufre 3y ago
  What are you constantly fighting with snaps about? What snaps are you using that are so broken that you have to fight with it? I mean that seriously. I've never had this experience and I've used Ubuntu for ~15 years.
  - ripe 3y ago
    Not the poster you're responding to, but I am finding it very hard to use Firefox on my Ubuntu 22.04 laptop consistently ever since it started prompting me to install the snap version. The snap wouldn't install, I couldn't figure out how to make it work, it seemed to get stuck trying to mount something from some unspecified device. I needed Firefox to keep working, but was forced to stop work to figure out what was broken. Decided to go around it. Went to some unofficial mozilla PPA with "apt" incantations to force the apt version to take precedence. This version also mysteriously stops upgrading when the snap version becomes newer, or something. I am forced to reinstall it periodically. Possibly a Firefox packaging bug, or maybe I'm not clever enough to understand the interdependencies between apt and snap. The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't want to debug this snap thing that I never asked for. I feel like I am dealing with some corporation, not open source software. As soon as I get some down time, I'll say bye-bye to Ubuntu.

pimterry 3y ago

I've been using Regolith (Ubuntu + well-integrated i3) happily for a while, but the Snap moves from Ubuntu are a massive turn-off. Looks like Regolith can in theory be installed on top of Pop!_OS which seems to target the same audience while going in a more sensible direction. Anybody tried that combo, or have any feedback on PopOS in general?

newsch 3y ago
I switched over to Pop OS and Regolith 2 about a month ago and I'm very happy with it, it's the same experience as using it with Ubuntu. I have had some trouble with the Pop Shop leaking memory, freezing, and crashing, but you can disable it and use Gnome Software if you want a gui.
mrtedbear 3y ago
I found Regolith nice to use except for the configuration. It seems to split the configuration into a bunch of files rather than just a standard i3 config file.
ntnsndr 3y ago
Pop is generally great. Surprised it is not being discussed here more. It is Ubuntu + Flatpak + Nice UX improvement improvements
djcannabiz 3y ago
Regolith looks really cool, thanks for sharing. Gonna check this out tonight

epage 3y ago

I gave up on Ubuntu after some snap frustrations. I tried Nix but couldn't figure out how to install some software I needed (dealt with plugins). I tried Manjaro but the system was unbootable after a software update soon after install and I just don't want to fight problems like that anymore. I've been using Mint but recently am giving PopOs a try but they've not fixed enough of the Gnome 3 usability problems. Been a deb used for decades at this point but maybe I'll give Fedora a try next, either going with XFCE (like I did with Mint) or KDE.

benrutter 3y ago
If you're coming from "Ubuntu was what I needed but sucks with recent decisions" have you thought about using popOs with a different desktop environment? (like xfce, or KDE) My experience is you get what Ubuntu used to have that way, i.e. no thrills reliability, so would definitely recommend it
pessimizer 3y ago
Why not Debian?

vanviegen 3y ago

I made the same switch for the same reasons about three years ago. I have no regrets! Also, as a CS teacher I've been forcing about 80 students to run Manjaro KDE full-time. The complaining is not nearly as loud as one would imagine. :-)

WD-42 3y ago

Arch Linux is a meme but also a really solid distro. I'm writing this from a 2+ year old Arch install that has had basically 0 stability issues. "Rolling release" gets an undeserved bad reputation in my opinion, and many arch packages aren't as bleeding edge as you'd expect. Compared to Ubuntu where I'd often have major issues in between releases, I don't think I could ever go back.

krastanov 3y ago
I moved to Arch last week because I did not have a USB drive large enough for the new Ubuntu install iso and they did not provide a net installer either (it is a new PC). The silliest reason, but now I find Arch lovely and everything works for me (including typically fragile things). Weird how such a silly thing led to switching away after 15 years as an Ubuntu user.
cryo 3y ago
Same here, every system is different, but my main desktop Arch installation is kicking since 6 years now with absolute minimal maintenance issues. Perhaps 1-2 times per year maximum things need to be fixed manually in super rare cases.
MegaDeKay 3y ago
Arch has been working great for me on both my ancient laptop and my Ryzen PC for ages now. And whenever I do run into a problem or want to learn something new, I've always got the truly excellent Arch Wiki to back me up. Even those running a different distribution will often refer to it to solve a problem. I expect even greater things from Arch in the future with Valve's use of this distro on the Steam Deck.
the_pwner224 3y ago
I've been running Arch for about a decade now and it's only seriously broken a few (low single digits) times. Here are the main failure modes I've experienced: The biggest one seems to be something related to the package mirrors only partially updating, or updates of common dependencies not being atomically applied to all packages - something like that. If you do a pacman -Syu in the middle of the critical time period, the system will fail to work with some core libs (libc, libicu) not being compatible. Booting into a recovery session and doing pacman -Syu again fixes it. However, it's been years since I experienced this - maybe they've taken some steps to eliminate this failure mode? The other big (but still rare) failure mode is bugs in the kernel. The fix is simple, keep linux-lts installed alongside the standard linux kernel, so you can always boot into lts from the bootloader if the regular kernel doesn't work. User software can have bugs in newer releases, but they're usually minor - you'll still be able to get work done without much disruption. And that's not really an Arch issue. Unless the bug is reported & fixed very quickly, Ubuntu/Fedora are likely to also get the buggy versions, just later. Aside from the first failure mode, the OS itself doesn't fail. I've had bad experiences with upgrading between major releases of distros like Ubuntu. They're bloated to begin with, and accumulate more cruft over time and major upgrades. Arch just works. Plus, there's lots of software in the official repos, and the AUR / package build system is also excellent - far superior to the whole PPA mess on Debian/Ubuntu, and the equivalent on Fedora.

Fwirt 3y ago

If you have the stomach for starting from nothing and installing only what you need, Alpine is wonderful. It uses musl libc so there are some things you need flatpaks for, but the vast majority of stuff I've tried just works, and it's small enough that the entire OS is comprehensible to a mere mortal.

schemescape 3y ago
I'm also using Alpine, but 100% of binary distributions of software I've tried have failed to run. Even AppImages don't run on Alpine, due to lack of glibc. It's honestly pretty frustrating--though I don't blame Alpine for this! As a mitigation, I use Nix to run anything that isn't packaged for Alpine (e.g. Deno), and that actually works pretty well, but having a parallel set of libraries kind of defeats my whole purpose for running Alpine, namely a having trim system without any bloat (on a netbook with 1 GB of RAM).
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  You can install glibc on Alpine but it's a shitemare from start to finish. Better to stick to Arch for a very similar user experience.
  - schemescape 3y ago
    Yeah, I've found just using Nix on Alpine for glibc-dependent stuff to be the simplest workflow. Note that, in my case, I'm not using Alpine for the "user experience", but solely because it is the most lightweight distribution (important when running on a machine with 1 GB of RAM). I was able to set up a C programming environment on a Raspberry Pi in only 300 MB... of disk space, not RAM! :)

galkk 3y ago

I'm was sticking to ubuntu because 1. NVidia seem to love debian/ubuntu more that other distros, and in general I don't want to waste much time with setting up machine learning env/CUDA on my machines 2. work has debian based distro, so using same tool/mindset is convenient but I really want to get rid of it because of snaps and overall attitute (previous controversies with their unity desktop manager, ads in it etc). I kind of didn't cared much then as I switched to Mint linux (even that had different distro names to annoy when need to set nvidia) and went back then ubuntu + i3. Right now it seems it's time to ditch ubuntu completely.

belval 3y ago
Anecdotal but I've had a lot less cuda/nvidia driver breaking moments with Arch than Ubuntu.
xcdzvyn 3y ago
Enabling proprietary nvidia drivers on NixOS: services.xserver.videoDrivers = [ "nvidia" ]; Here's how you'd create a development environment that explicitly uses CUDA: { outputs = { self, nixpkgs }: let pkgs = import nixpkgs { inherit x86_64-linux; config.allowUnfree = true; config.cudaSupport = true; }; in { # Environment }; }; } I've never had NixOS break doing just about anything, including nvidia stuff.
KronisLV 3y ago
> but I really want to get rid of it because of snaps If you want something on the desktop that is close enough to Ubuntu but without the snaps, you might want to have a look at Linux Mint: https://linuxmint.com/ https://linuxmint.com/ Or some might also just use Debian with a desktop environment installed, there's not too many reasons to not do that.

dabluecaboose 3y ago

I've dabbled with various flavors of Linux for a few years. Started with Ubuntu in college, then ran Linux Mint for about 6 months on my gaming rig before giving up and going back to Windows. Most recently, I had Manjaro running on my Thinkpad for about 3 years before I wiped it and put W10 on it for my fiancee. Since getting a Steam Deck I've been eyeballing Linux on the desktop again, having seen firsthand how well Proton works. Having effectively been a Linux baby 3 times, I have to say Manjaro was everything I thought Ubuntu would be when I tried it. I remember Ubuntu being intractable, hard to use, and weird to update. Manjaro seemed almost effortless to use, and honestly I'd probably recommend it to a Windows user over any other offerings at the current juncture.

ed25519FUUU 3y ago

I read through the comments here and I’m not excited at all about using something other than Ubuntu. Instead I’m solidly confident that macOS as a daily driver is the right choice for a busy developer who doesn’t want to mess with stuff.

Topfi 3y ago
Over a year ago, I switched to an M1 Max 14-inch as my main computer from an AMD Renoir equipped laptop running Fedora Silverblue with Pantheon. Previously used MacOS from Snow Leopard to Yosemite and very much liked it back then. Everyone of course is going to have different experiences, but I continue to be disappointed how issue ridden MacOS Ventura has been for me. My Fedora laptop could run for weeks without the need for a reboot (honestly only necessary because I used Silverblue which is immutable), whereas my Macbook constantly has issues adjusting scaling when plugging in a monitor during sleep (necessitating logging out and in), or randomly failing to connect to any WiFi connection after waking up, requiring a full reboot around three times a week. The settings app is appalling too, I genuinely am flabbergasted how sluggish (as in not loading settings pages for multiple seconds) it can be, especially considering the hardware. Very rarely, Xcode will try to open even though I set VSCode as the default for that file type, but this may be user error (though I don't see what else I can do beyond click that tick). Also, though this is more their design than a fault, I have become far to reliant on dnf via toolbox and whilst I am thankful for Homebrew, I can't stop feeling that a more integrated package manager would make MacOS more usable. Worst of all though is how MacOS handles USB peripherals. Upon plugging in, it should ask for confirmation, a good idea in theory. But for me, no matter the device (printer, usb drive, hub, display), this confirmation window only appears for a split second before disappearing. I then have to unplug and replug the cable about five times before, for some magic reason, the confirmation window stays upon permanently and I can actually interact with it. I tried a fresh install and spend a bit of time on the phone with customer support, neither helped. Simply cannot see MacOS as the choice for someone who needs to rely on their machine in this state. I'm constantly testing the Asahi Fedora Remix[0] and cannot wait for that to be at a level where I can use it day-to-day. The hardware is amazing, but the software really needs to be improved. [0] https://pagure.io/fedora-asahi/asahi-repos/tree/main https://pagure.io/fedora-asahi/asahi-repos/tree/main

SweetestRug 3y ago

I made the same move a few years ago and honestly never looked back. Manjaro might have its warts, but it works really well, has an active community, and gives almost all the advantages of Arch (the AUR is amazing!) for "cowards" like me. Manjaro "just worked" and it has been extremely easy to roll with the updates since install. I have since migrated other machines to Manjaro happily.

adhesive_wombat 3y ago
> the AUR is amazing Every time I end up on the Ubuntu machine: "sudo apt install somet<tab><tab>" nothing. Urgh. Off I go to Google "install <package> Ubuntu" and visit some third party website for a .deb. If I wanted to circumvent the packaging system by default, I'd use Windows.
- michaelcampbell 3y ago
  Our realities must be very different; I have never had to side-load a .deb. I honestly didn't even consider that tab-completion on apt might be a thing; I usually search with grep for what I want, but I've never not had something be there. I guess my needs are meager.
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    Proper Binary Chrome (not Chromium), Minecraft, MS Edge, and I'm sure there was something else I needed to install recently where I needed to download a .deb and run "sudo dpkg -i <thing>" Okay, I don't *need* to install Minecraft, but I like it. Yes, Edge works just great on Linux, probably better than it does on Windows. I am not a typical Linux user. I have been doing weird and unsupported shit with it since kernel 0.93 and I know what I'm getting into before I unscrew the lid.

therealmarv 3y ago

I don't want snaps anywhere. Definitely not on the server (ever looked how much RAM it takes on a machine with 512MB - 1GB of RAM?) and also not on the desktop. I don't have to optimise my machine to get the calculator run within 1-2 seconds, this is just bad by design and there is no excuse. They are an abomination or workaround for problems in OS library packaging (& manager) and OS security concepts. If snaps are so cool why are there no similar concepts in other famous major desktops (even non Linux)?

krastanov 3y ago
There are similar concepts: I use flatpak on other distros. It is just that flatpaks are not remotely as invasive and inconsistent as snaps (and probably most importantly, not forced on you).
rlpb 3y ago
> If snaps are so cool why are there no similar concepts in other famous major desktops (even non Linux)? APKs are pretty much the Android equivalent. In both cases the key features are sandboxing and bundling of dependencies. The stores also work roughly equivalently - like with snaps you can install an APK without a store, and that mechanism is what alternative stores use, but for full integration there's really just one: the Google Play Store. iOS works pretty much the same way too, as far as I understand.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > there's really just one: the Google Play Store. And sideloading. I prefer to sideload when possible.
  - rlpb 3y ago
    As I said: like with snaps you can install an APK without a store

pc2g4d 3y ago

Maybe ten years ago I jumped from Ubuntu to Fedora, can't remember why - just wanted to shake things up maybe? This year I installed Mint on my main machine. Contemplating a switch to Debian 12 when it's out - but might not bother, Mint has been really nice. What drove me from Fedora was mostly the need to upgrade every 6 months, and the short support windows.

pessimizer 3y ago
My only problems with Mint is that I don't care about Cinnamon, and when things go wrong the only forum that will help you with that particular frankendebian is the Mint forum, which is woefully inadequate. If you want to quickly fix what's broken, Arch, Debian, and Fedora are aces, everything else is trouble imo.
- CaptainNegative 3y ago
  Why not use the MATE edition?
- hawk_ 3y ago
  I have used Mint with xfce4/xmonad as my daily driver for six years now. Haven't had any issues and I have continued upgrading.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Xeamek 3y ago

Didn't manjaro fell out of grace and right now the hot new go to is EndeavourOS?

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

> My daily driver is a middle-aged Dell laptop, it’s about five years old but because I invested in the highest spec I could at the time, with an i7 of the day and 16 gigabytes of memory it’s still a contender. I like how they need to defend themselves for using a 5 year old laptop.

hosteur 3y ago
What? A top spec 5 year old (2018) laptop should be plenty fast for most common desktop use. I have a 2016 Dell latitude laying around with Debian 11 on it. It is plenty fast for most things. Even running virtual machines in virtual box with gaming (mostly older Windows games I run in a WinXP VM)
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  I'm typing this on a top spec 10 year old laptop. I'm saying it's funny to see them feel that they need to defend that choice.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    How's the battery life on that 10-year-old laptop? The big improvement with modern laptops isn't compute power, it's energy efficiency and thus battery life, and also weight. Modern laptops are a lot easier to carry than 10-year-old models since they weigh a fraction as much.
    - javchz 3y ago
      Depends. I have a t430 that with the right distro last like 4 to 6 hours depending on usage. It's a chunky laptop, but gets me going when I travel to a place where security can be iffy. So looks like an old VCR, and get less attention than an apple logo.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      The battery is good enough for me.

talkingtab 3y ago

I just moved my Raspberry Pi 4 (8MB) from Ubuntu to Debian 11. I run Ubuntu in several other environments so having one common Linux has been good. But Debian 11 is significantly faster. Same hardware, just noticeably faster. There are a few anomalies, I suspect mostly from the fact that Gnome is a post install add on. The Gnome network applet doesn't work but the network works fine. The only thing that is problematic on the PI is Firefox - it lags. I intend to slowly migrate my other systems -Desktop, Digital Ocean to Debian after a bit longer.

mijkal 3y ago
Check out DietPi — Debian-based OS with optimized software packages for devices such as Raspberry Pi. And super easy upgrade options. https://dietpi.com https://dietpi.com
- talkingtab 3y ago
  Thanks!!

ffjffsfr 3y ago

Never noticed any issues with snap, but truth be told I seldom use it for installing anything. If someone is unhappy with snap why use it? There is no requirement to use snap, usually you can get .deb from somewhere, you can find ppa, or install from source.

dspillett 3y ago
> If someone is unhappy with snap why use it? That is largely the point. Though they are not using it by moving to a distro where it isn't “native” so they don't have to do things more manually for some packages that they need/want.
conjuredbytes 3y ago
Honestly, don't know what distro some of these people are using. Maybe the last time they tried snaps they were slow but they have the same startup speed as anything else now.
midoridensha 3y ago
>There is no requirement to use snap, usually you can get .deb from somewhere, you can find ppa, or install from source. Yes, because installing Firefox from source, and updating every few days when new security updates are released, is so easy... It is possible to switch to a PPA for Firefox, but installing it isn't quite trivial, since Ubuntu really doesn't want you doing it that way. With this, and so many other decisions that Ubuntu has been making in recent years, it's easier to just find another distro better aligned to my interests.

tkuraku 3y ago

Switch to Debian. Seems more stable and sane than Ubuntu.

dspillett 3y ago
It always was - the initial point of Ubuntu from a technical standpoint (there was some mumbo-jumbo about togetherness & whatnot as well as the technical decisions) was taking Debian but compromising a little on some of Debian's hard rules in favour of newer versions and some other tweaks for friendliness. That is why the initial versions were based on Debian:Testing with bits of Debian:Sid where there were security or stability concerns in that branch (back then Testing could lag a noticeable amount on security updates, compared to both the stable and unstable branches), rather than starting with Debian:Stable.

notorandit 3y ago

I did the same. But chose ArchlLinux.

jrm4 3y ago

Let me go ahead and give some love to MX Linux; especially if you're trying to stick with a similar package manager. Right now MX feels like the perfect balance of "light" and "everything just works, pretty nicely." (Their attitude toward Systemd is one thing that got me on board. They had healthy criticism and waited a bit, but weren't all like NEVER EVER! and eventually made room for it.)

pdimitar 3y ago

I've heard a lot of praise for Debian and Ubuntu but the former was regularly kernel-panicking after updates (granted that was 10+ years ago so I am definitely not being up-to-date -- or even fair -- here) and the latter just keeps piling more and more stuff inside itself, defeating the purpose of a Linux box (for me at least; I want something much more minimal than macOS). Not to mention Ubuntu moves more and more stuff to Snap and you get to the ridiculous situation of a basic calculator needing seconds to start. Yeah, frak that. Furthermore, I use various CLI tools regularly in my work and I can't wait for Debian to update them 6 months in the future. I need something that has the minimum amount of background processes but also without suffering any user or developer usability problems; so not like the absolutely minimal set of services but the minimally viable set of services that give you very usable machine without any bloat. Maybe Arch is the best for my criteria but I installed Manjaro and never looked back since (2.5 years now). The only one problem I ever had was I think December 2022 when they shipped an OpenSSH version that hard-deprecated (read: removed / stopped support for) certain crypto algorithms, and my key was of course using one of them. I grumbled but connected a display and keyboard to the machine (it's one of my servers at home), migrated my keys to the new algorithms, put them on a USB pen drive, put them on my workstation and all was right again. Not even once had I any of the "rolling distribution" problems that people mention regularly on Reddit. Of course I might have been lucky. Lately I am meticulously extracting a fully OS-neutral dotfiles configuration (and I am like 95% done) and then will create a OS-neutral bootstrapping set of scripts and will install Manjaro on 2 or 3 of my spare laptops and I expect no problems at all. It's a very "out of your way" distro and I love it for that. (I am aware that there are people who have a beef with Manjaro because apparently they outright "stole" code -- which sounds meaningless to me when we're talking open-source, can somebody explain? -- and just rebranded stuff for themselves but as their user I can egotistically claim this has absolutely zero effect on me, I don't care and I use the distro because it hits the right spots for me.) I love my iMac Pro but the tinkering possibilities are vastly reduced compared to any Linux box (example: I want to experiment with ZFS and BCacheFS but of course both are not supported on a Mac, and virtualization / containerization is much more inefficient -- and slow -- on a Mac compared to a Linux machine). I will very likely be buying an M2 (or M3 when they come out) laptop just for the excellent display and will do my work "on it" by actually remoting to a Linux workstation. Plus, call me an old fart but I'd like my `ps aux` output to be maximum 70 lines long. I want control over my machine. Maybe I'll come crying back to Macs in a few years, who knows. But I'll make a very serious effort to take back control of my computing in the meantime.

constantcrying 3y ago

> thus had to select a distro for which the installation is painless, the learning curve is minimal, and which doesn’t have too many neckbeard quirks. While obviously Manjaro has a nice and pleasant GUI installer, it is a pretty weird distro with many quirks and not having some familiarity with Arch is probably a bad thing. In my personal oppinion I have trusted Arch enough to rely on it for my education, it is a remarkably solid and reliable distro, regardless of the jokes about it. But I wouldn't put the same trust into Manjaro, it is definitely a weirder distro with more points of failure.

friend_and_foe 3y ago

Manjaro isn't much better. They tried to force a proprietary office suite on their users and tried their hand at the adware thing too. Stop relying on "user friendly" distros, you haven't needed them for almost a decade, most common distributions run out of the box with no problems most of the time.

eli_gottlieb 3y ago
Really? So if I switched back to Gentoo after 20 years away I would find that I could quickly get a nice desktop environment set up, have the NVIDIA graphics drivers properly installed and compatible, log into my office Wifi and detect the office printer, and be able to install Anaconda and get back to training PyTorch models, within a couple of days?
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  Did you pick gentoo for a reason? Maybe because you don't have a point otherwise?
  - eli_gottlieb 3y ago
    Because I used to run Gentoo back when I had spare time for taking care of my operating system, and very much enjoyed the customizability and the efficiency of having every binary on my system compiled for my system.
Gordonjcp 3y ago
You say that, but I can take an SSD out of its wrapper, fit it to a PC, put an Ubuntu USB stick in, and have a fully-functioning machine in five minutes without actually having to interact with it in any way. What else can you recommend that does that?
- ragingrobot 3y ago
  Fedora. Boot stick, select the drive you want to install to, click install.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nektro 3y ago

Manjaro is worse

zeroweb 3y ago

Ubuntu runs my 12y old laptop and never had an issue. dont use snaps though Thanks Ubuntu maintainers & backers

smcin 3y ago

WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) = Ubuntu, right? Is the user experience under it better?

JohnFen 3y ago
You have choices. I have to use WSL at work, and my WSL is running Debian.
galkk 3y ago
No, it is virtualized kernel

psuresh 3y ago

Two root partions with one stable debian and another bleeding edge is an option. And a common big home partition for accomodating flatpaks which can be shared by both.

pjmlp 3y ago

Actually for me it was bye bye Desktop Linux, Hello Apple/Google/Microsoft platforms, running GNU/Linux on VMware if needed (or WSL). Or just ssh into a headless instance, keeping the UNIX tradition it was designed for.

smohare 3y ago

[dead]

fuzzfactor 3y ago

The thing about an open source OS is that it can be infiltrated by a bigger more powerful OS company . . .

ceving 3y ago

I am using Debian for more than 20 years and have never missed anything.

squarefoot 3y ago

My actual choices are: Debian for servers and tinkering hardware (including derivatives such as Armbian on non x86 embedded boards), Alpine on small servers and very small/older hardware and Manjaro on my laptops and PCs that I convert to Linux for other people, relatives etc. So far I've been very happy with these three choices, and Manjaro helped a lot to introduce Linux to non tech people.

barbariangrunge 3y ago
Why manjaro for those people? What desktop environment?
- squarefoot 3y ago
  Many of them were/are old people who were used to Windows XP or 7, rarely 8 and beyond, therefore I thought that moving to a XFCE desktop would have been less traumatic for them, and in the end it worked well. XFCE to me is the right balance of features and snappiness, that's the one I use on all my non CLI machines, although I prefer Debian on my main one, but Debian's XFCE defaults on ugly+impractical settings that would need too much work to repeat at each install. I also want to give them a rolling distro, which on Debian can be risky.

bagasme 3y ago

I also made the switch to Debian because I want to get closer to Ubuntu's origin. And when Ubuntu decided to only provide security updates to core applications (and leaving "universe" package users like ImageMagick vulnerable unless they were subscribed to Ubuntu Pro), my migration was the right thing to do. I still do installing snaps (and messing with LXD), though...

lgp171188 3y ago
Canonical has provided security updates just for the packages in "main" and the security updates for the rest were provided by community maintainers on a best-effort basis. With Ubuntu Pro, Canonical now provides security updates for more packages than it used to, otherwise. Disclaimer: I work for Canonical but have nothing to do with the distribution or Ubuntu Pro. And I am not speaking on behalf of the company.

oldandboring 3y ago

I switched from Ubuntu to Manjaro a few years ago and I have been very happy. The only issue is that commercial software companies have limited (if any) resources to devote to developing for Linux, so often I find that commercial software is available as a DEB or an RPM and that's it. In most cases if the software is popular enough it can be found in the AUR as what's essentially a "port" if any of you are FreeBSD people. But right now we're evaluating device/endpoint management software and the few solutions that ship agents for Linux all treat Ubuntu as king. We did find one nerdy solution that ships an Arch agent, though.

throitallaway 3y ago

Arch is awesome. It's not a beginner's distro, but once it's set up it tends to keep working. I will never not think of Manjaro as a clown show after this: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/31yayt/manjaro_forgot_to_upgrade_their_ssl_certificate/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/31yayt/manjaro_forgo... https://i.imgur.com/qV7QrQB.png https://i.imgur.com/qV7QrQB.png

6510 3y ago

I don't get how one can have a single computer. The OS is hardly the only thing that can go wrong. I toss a cup of coffee in my laptop the other week. Just switch it off (the lack of a real switch or a plug is wildly annoying here) and leave it off for a good while. Playing with different OS's is also more fun if your life doesn't depend on everything working all of the time.