8 ms·

Ten $50,000 grants for startups who move to St. Louis

65 points by vnchr 15y ago

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
sachingulaya 15y ago
"Your business model, including 3- or 5-year financial projections that include sales, profits, cash flows, and returns on investment." How can anyone reasonably predict where their N-month old company is going to be in 3-5 years?
- brandnewlow 15y ago
  And how is it worth $50k to make it harder to raise the $500k+ you'll probably need to build your company?
  - firefoxman1 15y ago
    Could you elaborate on how it would make it harder to raise more in the future?
    - wtvanhest 15y ago
      No VCs in St Louis.
      - sachinag 15y ago
        Not true. I worked at one! However, it's fair to say there are no VCs in St. Louis that focus on consumer-facing technology companies. That said, St. Louis isn't impossible. Strangeloop STL is one of the hands-down, bar none, best conferences in the country each year; Slicehost did quite well for themselves from there; Jack Dorsey goes back home all the time (a co-founder of Square is from the Lou, and the swipe-powered dongle technology comes out of Wash U); and it's not like Chicago's all that far away.
        wtvanhest 15y ago
        Yes, there are VCs in almost every major city, and I was definitely exaggerating, but the number of VCs in cities like St Louis is laughable compared with the valley. By the time you move a team you may exceed $50,000 in expenses. Anyone who is really serious will not take $50,000 to move to St. Louis. And of course there are exceptions, like someone who has family in St. Louis, or someone who does know investors there etc.
  - bpodgursky 15y ago
    1) you don't need $500k+ in funding to build a successful software company. 2) this is especially true living in a part of the country with a reasonable cost of living. Somewhere like Missouri, $50k is two reasonable years of runway for a single 20-something (even in a metro area like St Louis, you'll be able to rent for ~$400 .) 3) it's pretty ridiculous (and arrogant) to assume that nowhere else in the country can you get investors.
    - philwelch 15y ago
      If you're a one-man shop, there's little point taking any funding, and it's doubtful even these guys would fund you.
      - ArchGrants 15y ago
        Actually, if you're a sole entrepreneur with a great idea or disruptive venture, we want to read your submissions!
    - brandnewlow 15y ago
      If you're raising $50k, you'll probably want to raise $500k if things go well. Doing that in STL is unquestionably harder in STL than SV.
- xarien 15y ago
  Same way you work any business model projections, pull it out of your.... It's really not a bad idea to set up a business model with a set of variables defined from which you base your projections. When I do this, I make it very easy to drop in actuals and have the projections auto updated based on the collected metrics over the original projected ones.
- firefoxman1 15y ago
  Well, if you've ever had to write a business plan, you'll agree the projections for a startup end up being complete BS, but they make investors feel safe looking at a 20+ page document with lots of charts and numbers. That said, business plans can be useful and help the founders solidify their business model, predict costs, etc. If anything, it helps you get a vague idea of what to expect a few years down the road instead of just the next 60 days.
  - mhartl 15y ago
    business plans can be useful and help the founders solidify their business model, predict costs, etc. I would guess the vast majority of tech entrepreneurs would disagree with the implication that business plans are generally useful.
    - firefoxman1 15y ago
      Haha is that a stab at the "worry about the business model later" attitude in tech, or am I interpreting it wrong?
      - mhartl 15y ago
        No, I'm being serious. Thinking about your business model is useful, and planning is useful, but the formal practice of writing an official "business plan" (with revenue projections, etc.) is from a bygone era. More than anything, business plans give people (in this case, Arch Grants) a false sense of security.
        firefoxman1 15y ago
        Oh yes I completely agree. New industries move too fast to predict their profitability. I think the resume will go the way of the business model in our lifetime, if not 10 years.
        mhartl 15y ago
- ry0ohki 15y ago
  I don't think anyone sees 3-5 year plans as promises, more as the fact that you've thought about what your company will be doing in 3-5 years. Yes technology is impossible to predict but they want to see that you've given it more thought then, we don't need revenue Google buys us in year 2!!!1!
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
palish 15y ago
EDIT: Post removed. I truly apologize for offending you. I don't like the idea of making people unhappy, so I've removed my post.
- pinko 15y ago
  I'm not going to defend the merits of moving a startup to STL, but I think this post says more about you than the city.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- c_t_montgomery 15y ago
  (disclaimer: I go to Saint Louis University, but spent last semester in SF) I don't know what you're talking about - it's really not that bad. For example: the STLJS meetup just started less than a year ago and had over 50 people at our last meetup. Granted - it's not SF or SValley, but it's not the hell hole you make it out to be. There are some of the most genuine and kind people I've ever met that are here in STL. We're not a bunch of dumbfucks. Hell - WashU is ranked the 14th best university in the country. I'm not one that thinks a great school is equivalent to intelligence, but c'mon - there are people here that think. A lot of them. Just not the same way a bunch of HNers do. It's just a different culture here. People are much more corporate and family-focused, which isn't a bad thing to a lot of people. With that being said, StartupWeekendSTL was here a few weeks ago, and there were too many people to fit in the place we had. It was awesome! Think what you want, but if you really think St. Louis is that bad, then you're just not reaching out for the culture you're looking for, sorry.
  - PooperPhilo 15y ago
    Sup fellow Billiken.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- 15y ago
tazzy531 15y ago
St. Louis has the wrong understanding of the problem. Money isn't the solution to building a tech community. Funding isn't usually the issue in getting a startup off the ground. The development of the tech community is how you entice entrepreneurs and technologists to your area. Entrepreneurs and developers flock to where there is a community of like minded individuals. Build the community and the people will come. Once the people come, the capital will come. Look at what NYC is doing. They are building a tech community that rivals Silicon Valley out of the ashes of former investment banking software engineers. The city government is actively supporting groups like New York Tech Meetup and General Assembly. They are nurturing the tech community and encouraging them to grow roots in the city. St. Louis needs to work on this rather than just throw money at the problem.
- WadeF 15y ago
  I agree. I see this in a lot of the places that don't have a strong entrepreneurial community. I see people bemoan about not enough investors or not enough resources. Their solution is then another website or another LinkedIn group or more mingling with suites like it will magically solve the problem. The places outside the Valley that have succeeded have all done so because they have nurtured and embraced the entrepreneurial and tech community. St. Louis and elsewhere should do the same.
- andrewcooke 15y ago
  I was trying to work out where people stood on SOPA to get some idea of how much they understand internet startups. But I don't understand enough about Americna politics to get very far - all I have is that the Senator for Missouri, Claire McCaskill, was a SOPA co-sponsor. How do congress-people fit into this? There seem to be lots more of them...
  - philwelch 15y ago
    There's two "houses", the House of Representatives and the Senate. The Senate contains two Senators per state, the House of Representatives contains over 400 representatives, each of whom individually represents a "district" that can range in size from part of a large city to an entire state--the goal is to have at least one district per state, but for each district to have roughly equal population. So Missouri actually has two senators, McCaskill and Roy Blunt. "Congressmen" are usually members of the House of Representatives, and a state might have anywhere between 1 and about 50 or so. For legislation to pass, it has to be passed by both houses and signed by the President, who's elected separately. If the President vetoes it, both houses can pass it over his head with a 2/3 majority. Constitutional amendments require a 2/3 majority and then some. And it's not like a parliamentary system where the whole party always votes the same way. The House in particular has often attracted idiosyncratic candidates who can only get elected in their particular district, and almost never vote with their party--guys like Ron Paul, James Traficant, and Zell Miller. Though of the three, only Ron Paul is still in office, and he's retiring soon. The House and the Senate have different rules and regulations and traditions, and each can do things the other can't, but that's basically how it works.
jws 15y ago
Things to know about St. Louis: The City of St. Louis is a separate entity from St. Louis county. When I last checked the employee map for a 150 engineer software company, there were two employees living in the City of St. Louis, (a receptionist, and a newly divorced man in an apartment) the remainder where in St. Louis County, St. Charles County, and living on the "east side" in Illinois (but far enough to clear East St. Louis). The City of St. Louis has a 1% payroll tax for people that work in the city, plus another 1% for people that live in the city. That may not be important for a startup, but if you are looking to long term employ a lot of highly paid people you have to ask yourself if you want an extra 2% margin or not. There has been a fair amount of redevelopment in the city itself in recent years, and probably a large amount to come, so you can find a nice place. Make sure to check for a grocery store nearby. Public transit is next to useless. Prepare to drive. The radial highways in and out of the city are in pretty good shape these days. Check the actually commute times, but 20 miles in 30 minutes wouldn't be outrageous.
- tptacek 15y ago
  St Louis has a city income tax?!
  - marklabedz 15y ago
    Technically, an "earnings" tax and applies to net profits too: http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/cco/code/data/t0522.htm http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/cco/code/data/t0522.htm
  - chrisamiller 15y ago
    1% earnings tax if you either live in the city or work in the city. (If you both live and work in the city, it's still 1%) Frankly, I don't mind paying it. The city is entering a tricky time where it's got some momentum going with a lot of young people, a up-and-coming arts scene, more and more local businesses. If it puts the money to good use, there's hope for revitalizing the city core.
    - jacques_chester 15y ago
untog 15y ago
A slight aside, but I'm seeing a lot of comments about how the cash isn't really enough to tempt people. They're probably correct. You know what I'd love to see? States being able to set their own special immigration policies. I live in New York and am very happy here, but it's very difficult to create my own startup because I'm on a restrictive work visa. However, if St. Louis had the ability to request a special exclusion for foreign nationals to create a startup in their city, you'd better believe I would be looking at it very closely. From talking to other people in similar situations, I doubt I'd be alone. (Of course, if St. Louis had the power to do this then I suspect NYC would as well- and Bloomberg is a very vocal supporter of immigration reform. But still...)
philwelch 15y ago
The overwhelming tone I'm getting from the comments defending STL here are along the lines of "come on, St. Louis isn't that bad, and at least it's cheap". Which is quite different from the sales pitch you get for Silicon Valley, which is "everything you could possibly need is right here". The choice between "not that bad" and "actively helpful" is obvious.
anrope 15y ago
It is a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg type problem. Best case, 10 startups pop up all at once as a result of these grants, and more follow. I think this is actually a reasonably good try at jump-starting a startup culture. The nice thing about a web startup is that, aside from "culture" and government regulations, there aren't really any reasons you couldn't run your startup out of a cabin in remote Alaska with a satellite internet connection. Of course, it does go deeper than just an initial seed. There also needs to be a government with policies that won't restrict the growth of startups. For all the complaining in Maine about college graduates leaving the state, I would love to see them try something like this.
rkalla 15y ago
A lot of good information in this thread; the only bit I would add is that this is a grant and not standard equity-trade funding like you would find the valley. So $50k in cash as opposed to $50k of investment for 33% of your company can be two very different things. FWIW, half my family is from STL and there is definitely a difference in culture between the west coast and mid-west.
tptacek 15y ago
I wonder whether groups like this hadn't ought to stop doing grant/investment programs like this. You can't just buy a startup community, at least not for any amount we've seen spent to date. It has to grow organically. What seems likely to happen here is that adverse selection will allocate these grants to companies with poorer prospects than the total pool of startups, thus creating a track record of failure for the area. Maybe a better approach would be to offer the grants to any startup nationwide, with the proviso that they employ N people in STL.
- Alex3917 15y ago
  "You can't just buy a startup community, at least not for any amount we've seen spent to date. It has to grow organically." I wouldn't be surprised if NYC does it. I think if you funded 40 companies at 250k each in grants then you could easily get a class as good as YC with the right people as judges, and considering they are already pumping 2 billion dollars into this Cornell Technion thing it seems likely that something like this will eventually happen.
  - untog 15y ago
    NYC is doing a wide array of interesting things- they've run a few hackathons and have an app creation competition running right now (http://www.nycbigapps.com http://www.nycbigapps.com) with cash prizes and the possibility of becoming a TechStars finalist. They haven't gone as far as offering up huge grants, but I wouldn't surprised if something like that happened for Cornell Tech grads. Disclaimer: I entered an app into the BigApps competition, so I'm partly biased in publicising it.
- jpdoctor 15y ago
  > You can't just buy a startup community I don't know that I've seen it attempted before. More generally, I think this is a very interesting development. As developers move into the cloud, staying in places like silicon valley requires a burn that might not be necessary. Verrry interesting.
  - Harkins 15y ago
alexholehouse 15y ago
Bizarrely, I got back from St. Louis last on Saturday after going for PhD interviews. Regarding St. Louis as a whole, I think this article has some interesting points; http://www.forbes.com/sites/marketshare/2011/12/06/st-louis-doesnt-suck/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/marketshare/2011/12/06/st-louis-... As for St. Louis as a tech start up location, I know there's a growing biotech scene bubbling up. St. Louis actually has the highest concentration of plant scientists in the world, and both Monsanto and WashU really pioneering some pretty incredible crop research. Similarly, WashU is doing some truly extraordinary biomedical research, such as the newly opened Genomic and Pathology Services, where physicians from around the US can send cancer tissue samples to have genomic data read for prognostic and diagnostic purposes (http://www.gps.wustl.edu/ http://www.gps.wustl.edu/). To help catalyze the biotech spirit, the university offers a biotech Entrepreneurship pathway integrated with its biomedical/biological sciences PhD program which runs joint with the business school.(http://dbbs.wustl.edu/curstudents/SpecialEmphasisPathways/Pages/KauffmanPathway.aspx http://dbbs.wustl.edu/curstudents/SpecialEmphasisPathways/Pa...). All that said and done, I can't imagine moving a tech start-up to STL. It seems like a company might organically grow out of existing work...
- vnchr 15y ago
  I think they'll provide some grants to companies in town, but it is primarily (as I understand) meant to attract from outside.
2mur 15y ago
I hate writing this comment because I actually have a lot of warm feelings about St. Louis. I grew up there and went to college + medical school there (until I was about 25). Then I left. I always say that St. Louis is a nice place to be from. It's a nice place to raise a family. But I'm never going to move back. Or under extreme protest if my wife decides she wants to move back to be by family. There's just nothing interesting about St. Louis. White flight ruined the city in the sixties and highway 70 divides the majority black population (north) from the majority white population (south). So it's basically a segregated suburbia wrapped around a lifeless inner core. No one lives in the city. They drive there to work, drink and watch sports. Period. I certainly wouldn't want to start a tech company there.
- TechNewb 15y ago
  Sounds like Atlanta, or any southern city. If Southern cities want to innovate they should at least try and create basic city public infastructure.
- natesm 15y ago
  > They drive there to ... drink Well, that's a little terrifying.
  - ktsmith 15y ago
    Downtown has Laclede's landing, Busch Stadium, the James Edwards Dome, Scott Trade Center etc. There's other places that I'm forgetting, but that's a draw to down town for nights and weekends if you are into sports, drinking, and live music. I lived downtown while I was there and everyone I knew and worked with lived outside of the city and would drive in for work/events. I was only there for a couple of years over a decade ago so some of it has probably changed but I doubt it. It is probably one of the last places I would consider for a company and it's one of the few places I have no real desire to go back to.
  - almost_usual 15y ago
    Welcome to the Midwest
- 15y ago
ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
Honestly... I've lived in St. Louis my whole life (other than collage) and recently went to Startup Weekend St. Louis as well as php and code till dawn meetups. I know only a few people, angel investors from Startup Weekend, community organizers and others who are really trying very hard to get something started here. But it's a very VERY tiny tech community. However, there are angel investors, mentors, startup weekends, and The Founders Institute just came to town so you'll probably get lots of attention. I call these passionate people "Queen Bees" because they are very generous and dedicated to turning St. Louis into a tech center. However, the problem I see over and over again in St. louis is are the lack of "Worker bees". These are the people that actually build companies and startups and do the work. There are very very few of them. And that is where the flaw of the St. Louis startup scene becomes very apparent. The Queen Bees here like the Arch Angels, Jay Delong, Brian Blanchard, Israel Vickers, & dozens of other community organizers are the warmest people you'll meet. They are amazing. They really want to lead this kingdom towards glory but for this whole "Tech Scene" to work there have to be worker bees and that's exactly what St. Louis is missing. It's like trying to build a Craigslist for Antarctica, or trying to build a Farmers Market in Death Valley Arizona. So in the event that your startup does grow, good luck finding talent. The mentality here is different. I went to PHP meetups a few times a while ago and the developers there literally didn't give a single "fuck" about any startup ideas, from anyone. They'd gather up every month, talk about stupid shit that "happened this one time..." then at the end ask each other what they should do the next meetup because chit chatting is boring. The idea that they could work on a startup that could change the world is completely over their head. They are oblivious to their own possible greatness. $50,000 grant for startups is a great deal for people who already live in St. Louis but a terrible deal for people who have a chance to move to the Bay Area. Getting a startup off the ground is hard enough, why make it harder by moving to a place where you have less oportunity and less people to make it happen? In the end you need to do what's best for YOUR startup and YOUR idea, not what's best for St. Louis. A startup is like a child you are raising, and if you want the best for your child, you pack your bags and move to an area with better schools, less crime, and better collages. Depending on the situation, the best place for your child and most startups is Silicon Valley. People who try to convince themselves otherwise are the type of people who either don't have the balls to move (like me), or are emotionally attached to their city (New Yorkers, Seattleans), or don't have the funds to move. There's lots of stories of people outside the valley making it but I bet you if they moved to the bay area they would have made it farther and faster than in their home town. Silicon valley is not a "place" but a certain type of "people". They are very intelligent, not always educated, bat shit crazy and hell bent on building something great. And Silicon Valley is FULL of them. They will fuel your startup's success faster and better than anyone else can. So if you're young and able to move, go to the Bay Area, if you're stuck in New York or St. Louis or Seattle because of family or emotional reasons. By all means take advantage of these deals and try to give back to the community so you can help others who are stuck in their home town too. BTW, check out the St. louis "code till dawn" meetup group for really chilled authentic developers. I myself desperately want to move to San Jose. I need to do it, but I'm an overly emotional Atheist and also cannot have kids. Basically, I will never raise a family of my own so the one I have now is the last biological family I'll ever have and I don't want to let them go. If my parents were to pass away while I was gone out west, I'd never forgive myself. To me there's no afterlife so you have to love those around you as much as you can while they are alive because there's no second chances after that. Emotionally, I think I'm stuck in St. Louis for a while... ;_;
allard 15y ago
If you're interested in moving to Saint Louis (or already there), and if you need a house, and if you are one or two, I have quite a place for sale in its best neighborhood. Comes with a great workspace. Contact via profile here.
medusa666 15y ago
I'm not sure that STL is a very desirable or interesting location for immigrants, particularly non-white immigrants, who are a backbone of Silicon Valley.
- ArchGrants 15y ago
  Hmm, I moved here in October from the Northeast. I was (pleasantly) surprised by the diversity in STL and that doesn't just mean great ethnic restaurants, though large immigrant and refugee communities have resulted in some great eateries. This is a city focused on embracing diversity. There are countless individuals solely focused on multicultural initiatives within the government and within civic organizations. Arch Grants is one of those groups that seeks to embrace a multicultural pool of applicants and award recipients because we want the startups we fund to reflect the diversity of St. Louis that is thriving especially within the startup community.
vnchr 15y ago
Hi guys, I posted this just to see if there'd be a reaction--and wow, there has been. I do some community organizing in the startup scene (see StartLouis.com) in addition to some work with startup legal, funding and incubating. I'll get the Executive Director Sarah Spear to more directly comment to the HN community about this. Also, I'm pretty well informed now on what's going on with this initiative and related ones. Hit me up for questions. Finally, please know that St. Louis, like any other place, contains diverse people with diverse goals. I have my own combination of concerns and confidence regarding Arch Grants. But bottom-line, it's a good thing and not a bad one. I'd love to chat about the concerns too. There's plenty of legit ones out there :)
athst 15y ago
They've basically structured it as a business plan competition, not a startup competition. Not sure what kind of businesses they were looking to attract with this, but it doesn't seem very well suited to what we tend to think of as a "startup."
- vnchr 15y ago
  Agreed... It is based on the format of a BPC. The guys writing the checks are old school, old money ;) I've talked to them about next year incorporating Lean Methodology. Executive Director is open to it, but for now, they're off and running with plenty to do.
mvkel 15y ago
To me, this is like paying students to attend class.
- ArchGrants 15y ago
  This is the last comment I noticed on this post so I'm going to address it. Full disclosure: I'm the aforementioned Exec Director of Arch Grants so I'm a tad bit biased. In an effort to enhance St. Louis' entrepreneurial ecosystem, Arch Grants is awarding $50k + immense support services (free legal and accounting services, reduced commercial and residential rent, business mentoring, access to university support, etc.) to startups. Like Israel pointed out, there are challenges with the model that we're addressing but perhaps more importantly, we're asking ourselves, "can we attract tomorrow's entrepreneurs to St. Louis by providing unencumbered grant funding?" Your comment hints at the fact that entrepreneurs will be doing what they do best, whether we fund them or not, similar to how students have to attend class anyway. As we see it, why not throw our support behind those entrepreneurs and fund their efforts in hopes that the funding leads to successful companies?

65 points by vnchr 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

"Your business model, including 3- or 5-year financial projections that include sales, profits, cash flows, and returns on investment." How can anyone reasonably predict where their N-month old company is going to be in 3-5 years?

brandnewlow 15y ago
And how is it worth $50k to make it harder to raise the $500k+ you'll probably need to build your company?
- firefoxman1 15y ago
  Could you elaborate on how it would make it harder to raise more in the future?
  - wtvanhest 15y ago
    No VCs in St Louis.
    - sachinag 15y ago
      Not true. I worked at one! However, it's fair to say there are no VCs in St. Louis that focus on consumer-facing technology companies. That said, St. Louis isn't impossible. Strangeloop STL is one of the hands-down, bar none, best conferences in the country each year; Slicehost did quite well for themselves from there; Jack Dorsey goes back home all the time (a co-founder of Square is from the Lou, and the swipe-powered dongle technology comes out of Wash U); and it's not like Chicago's all that far away.
      - wtvanhest 15y ago
        Yes, there are VCs in almost every major city, and I was definitely exaggerating, but the number of VCs in cities like St Louis is laughable compared with the valley. By the time you move a team you may exceed $50,000 in expenses. Anyone who is really serious will not take $50,000 to move to St. Louis. And of course there are exceptions, like someone who has family in St. Louis, or someone who does know investors there etc.
- bpodgursky 15y ago
  1) you don't need $500k+ in funding to build a successful software company. 2) this is especially true living in a part of the country with a reasonable cost of living. Somewhere like Missouri, $50k is two reasonable years of runway for a single 20-something (even in a metro area like St Louis, you'll be able to rent for ~$400 .) 3) it's pretty ridiculous (and arrogant) to assume that nowhere else in the country can you get investors.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    If you're a one-man shop, there's little point taking any funding, and it's doubtful even these guys would fund you.
    - ArchGrants 15y ago
      Actually, if you're a sole entrepreneur with a great idea or disruptive venture, we want to read your submissions!
  - brandnewlow 15y ago
    If you're raising $50k, you'll probably want to raise $500k if things go well. Doing that in STL is unquestionably harder in STL than SV.
xarien 15y ago
Same way you work any business model projections, pull it out of your.... It's really not a bad idea to set up a business model with a set of variables defined from which you base your projections. When I do this, I make it very easy to drop in actuals and have the projections auto updated based on the collected metrics over the original projected ones.
firefoxman1 15y ago
Well, if you've ever had to write a business plan, you'll agree the projections for a startup end up being complete BS, but they make investors feel safe looking at a 20+ page document with lots of charts and numbers. That said, business plans can be useful and help the founders solidify their business model, predict costs, etc. If anything, it helps you get a vague idea of what to expect a few years down the road instead of just the next 60 days.
- mhartl 15y ago
  business plans can be useful and help the founders solidify their business model, predict costs, etc. I would guess the vast majority of tech entrepreneurs would disagree with the implication that business plans are generally useful.
  - firefoxman1 15y ago
    Haha is that a stab at the "worry about the business model later" attitude in tech, or am I interpreting it wrong?
    - mhartl 15y ago
      No, I'm being serious. Thinking about your business model is useful, and planning is useful, but the formal practice of writing an official "business plan" (with revenue projections, etc.) is from a bygone era. More than anything, business plans give people (in this case, Arch Grants) a false sense of security.
      - firefoxman1 15y ago
        Oh yes I completely agree. New industries move too fast to predict their profitability. I think the resume will go the way of the business model in our lifetime, if not 10 years.
        mhartl 15y ago
ry0ohki 15y ago
I don't think anyone sees 3-5 year plans as promises, more as the fact that you've thought about what your company will be doing in 3-5 years. Yes technology is impossible to predict but they want to see that you've given it more thought then, we don't need revenue Google buys us in year 2!!!1!
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

palish 15y ago

EDIT: Post removed. I truly apologize for offending you. I don't like the idea of making people unhappy, so I've removed my post.

pinko 15y ago
I'm not going to defend the merits of moving a startup to STL, but I think this post says more about you than the city.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
c_t_montgomery 15y ago
(disclaimer: I go to Saint Louis University, but spent last semester in SF) I don't know what you're talking about - it's really not that bad. For example: the STLJS meetup just started less than a year ago and had over 50 people at our last meetup. Granted - it's not SF or SValley, but it's not the hell hole you make it out to be. There are some of the most genuine and kind people I've ever met that are here in STL. We're not a bunch of dumbfucks. Hell - WashU is ranked the 14th best university in the country. I'm not one that thinks a great school is equivalent to intelligence, but c'mon - there are people here that think. A lot of them. Just not the same way a bunch of HNers do. It's just a different culture here. People are much more corporate and family-focused, which isn't a bad thing to a lot of people. With that being said, StartupWeekendSTL was here a few weeks ago, and there were too many people to fit in the place we had. It was awesome! Think what you want, but if you really think St. Louis is that bad, then you're just not reaching out for the culture you're looking for, sorry.
- PooperPhilo 15y ago
  Sup fellow Billiken.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
15y ago

tazzy531 15y ago

St. Louis has the wrong understanding of the problem. Money isn't the solution to building a tech community. Funding isn't usually the issue in getting a startup off the ground. The development of the tech community is how you entice entrepreneurs and technologists to your area. Entrepreneurs and developers flock to where there is a community of like minded individuals. Build the community and the people will come. Once the people come, the capital will come. Look at what NYC is doing. They are building a tech community that rivals Silicon Valley out of the ashes of former investment banking software engineers. The city government is actively supporting groups like New York Tech Meetup and General Assembly. They are nurturing the tech community and encouraging them to grow roots in the city. St. Louis needs to work on this rather than just throw money at the problem.

WadeF 15y ago
I agree. I see this in a lot of the places that don't have a strong entrepreneurial community. I see people bemoan about not enough investors or not enough resources. Their solution is then another website or another LinkedIn group or more mingling with suites like it will magically solve the problem. The places outside the Valley that have succeeded have all done so because they have nurtured and embraced the entrepreneurial and tech community. St. Louis and elsewhere should do the same.
andrewcooke 15y ago
I was trying to work out where people stood on SOPA to get some idea of how much they understand internet startups. But I don't understand enough about Americna politics to get very far - all I have is that the Senator for Missouri, Claire McCaskill, was a SOPA co-sponsor. How do congress-people fit into this? There seem to be lots more of them...
- philwelch 15y ago
  There's two "houses", the House of Representatives and the Senate. The Senate contains two Senators per state, the House of Representatives contains over 400 representatives, each of whom individually represents a "district" that can range in size from part of a large city to an entire state--the goal is to have at least one district per state, but for each district to have roughly equal population. So Missouri actually has two senators, McCaskill and Roy Blunt. "Congressmen" are usually members of the House of Representatives, and a state might have anywhere between 1 and about 50 or so. For legislation to pass, it has to be passed by both houses and signed by the President, who's elected separately. If the President vetoes it, both houses can pass it over his head with a 2/3 majority. Constitutional amendments require a 2/3 majority and then some. And it's not like a parliamentary system where the whole party always votes the same way. The House in particular has often attracted idiosyncratic candidates who can only get elected in their particular district, and almost never vote with their party--guys like Ron Paul, James Traficant, and Zell Miller. Though of the three, only Ron Paul is still in office, and he's retiring soon. The House and the Senate have different rules and regulations and traditions, and each can do things the other can't, but that's basically how it works.

jws 15y ago

Things to know about St. Louis: The City of St. Louis is a separate entity from St. Louis county. When I last checked the employee map for a 150 engineer software company, there were two employees living in the City of St. Louis, (a receptionist, and a newly divorced man in an apartment) the remainder where in St. Louis County, St. Charles County, and living on the "east side" in Illinois (but far enough to clear East St. Louis). The City of St. Louis has a 1% payroll tax for people that work in the city, plus another 1% for people that live in the city. That may not be important for a startup, but if you are looking to long term employ a lot of highly paid people you have to ask yourself if you want an extra 2% margin or not. There has been a fair amount of redevelopment in the city itself in recent years, and probably a large amount to come, so you can find a nice place. Make sure to check for a grocery store nearby. Public transit is next to useless. Prepare to drive. The radial highways in and out of the city are in pretty good shape these days. Check the actually commute times, but 20 miles in 30 minutes wouldn't be outrageous.

tptacek 15y ago
St Louis has a city income tax?!
- marklabedz 15y ago
  Technically, an "earnings" tax and applies to net profits too: http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/cco/code/data/t0522.htm http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/cco/code/data/t0522.htm
- chrisamiller 15y ago
  1% earnings tax if you either live in the city or work in the city. (If you both live and work in the city, it's still 1%) Frankly, I don't mind paying it. The city is entering a tricky time where it's got some momentum going with a lot of young people, a up-and-coming arts scene, more and more local businesses. If it puts the money to good use, there's hope for revitalizing the city core.
  - jacques_chester 15y ago

untog 15y ago

A slight aside, but I'm seeing a lot of comments about how the cash isn't really enough to tempt people. They're probably correct. You know what I'd love to see? States being able to set their own special immigration policies. I live in New York and am very happy here, but it's very difficult to create my own startup because I'm on a restrictive work visa. However, if St. Louis had the ability to request a special exclusion for foreign nationals to create a startup in their city, you'd better believe I would be looking at it very closely. From talking to other people in similar situations, I doubt I'd be alone. (Of course, if St. Louis had the power to do this then I suspect NYC would as well- and Bloomberg is a very vocal supporter of immigration reform. But still...)

philwelch 15y ago

The overwhelming tone I'm getting from the comments defending STL here are along the lines of "come on, St. Louis isn't that bad, and at least it's cheap". Which is quite different from the sales pitch you get for Silicon Valley, which is "everything you could possibly need is right here". The choice between "not that bad" and "actively helpful" is obvious.

anrope 15y ago

It is a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg type problem. Best case, 10 startups pop up all at once as a result of these grants, and more follow. I think this is actually a reasonably good try at jump-starting a startup culture. The nice thing about a web startup is that, aside from "culture" and government regulations, there aren't really any reasons you couldn't run your startup out of a cabin in remote Alaska with a satellite internet connection. Of course, it does go deeper than just an initial seed. There also needs to be a government with policies that won't restrict the growth of startups. For all the complaining in Maine about college graduates leaving the state, I would love to see them try something like this.

rkalla 15y ago

A lot of good information in this thread; the only bit I would add is that this is a grant and not standard equity-trade funding like you would find the valley. So $50k in cash as opposed to $50k of investment for 33% of your company can be two very different things. FWIW, half my family is from STL and there is definitely a difference in culture between the west coast and mid-west.

tptacek 15y ago

I wonder whether groups like this hadn't ought to stop doing grant/investment programs like this. You can't just buy a startup community, at least not for any amount we've seen spent to date. It has to grow organically. What seems likely to happen here is that adverse selection will allocate these grants to companies with poorer prospects than the total pool of startups, thus creating a track record of failure for the area. Maybe a better approach would be to offer the grants to any startup nationwide, with the proviso that they employ N people in STL.

Alex3917 15y ago
"You can't just buy a startup community, at least not for any amount we've seen spent to date. It has to grow organically." I wouldn't be surprised if NYC does it. I think if you funded 40 companies at 250k each in grants then you could easily get a class as good as YC with the right people as judges, and considering they are already pumping 2 billion dollars into this Cornell Technion thing it seems likely that something like this will eventually happen.
- untog 15y ago
  NYC is doing a wide array of interesting things- they've run a few hackathons and have an app creation competition running right now (http://www.nycbigapps.com http://www.nycbigapps.com) with cash prizes and the possibility of becoming a TechStars finalist. They haven't gone as far as offering up huge grants, but I wouldn't surprised if something like that happened for Cornell Tech grads. Disclaimer: I entered an app into the BigApps competition, so I'm partly biased in publicising it.
jpdoctor 15y ago
> You can't just buy a startup community I don't know that I've seen it attempted before. More generally, I think this is a very interesting development. As developers move into the cloud, staying in places like silicon valley requires a burn that might not be necessary. Verrry interesting.
- Harkins 15y ago

alexholehouse 15y ago

Bizarrely, I got back from St. Louis last on Saturday after going for PhD interviews. Regarding St. Louis as a whole, I think this article has some interesting points; http://www.forbes.com/sites/marketshare/2011/12/06/st-louis-doesnt-suck/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/marketshare/2011/12/06/st-louis-... As for St. Louis as a tech start up location, I know there's a growing biotech scene bubbling up. St. Louis actually has the highest concentration of plant scientists in the world, and both Monsanto and WashU really pioneering some pretty incredible crop research. Similarly, WashU is doing some truly extraordinary biomedical research, such as the newly opened Genomic and Pathology Services, where physicians from around the US can send cancer tissue samples to have genomic data read for prognostic and diagnostic purposes (http://www.gps.wustl.edu/ http://www.gps.wustl.edu/). To help catalyze the biotech spirit, the university offers a biotech Entrepreneurship pathway integrated with its biomedical/biological sciences PhD program which runs joint with the business school.(http://dbbs.wustl.edu/curstudents/SpecialEmphasisPathways/Pages/KauffmanPathway.aspx http://dbbs.wustl.edu/curstudents/SpecialEmphasisPathways/Pa...). All that said and done, I can't imagine moving a tech start-up to STL. It seems like a company might organically grow out of existing work...

vnchr 15y ago
I think they'll provide some grants to companies in town, but it is primarily (as I understand) meant to attract from outside.

2mur 15y ago

I hate writing this comment because I actually have a lot of warm feelings about St. Louis. I grew up there and went to college + medical school there (until I was about 25). Then I left. I always say that St. Louis is a nice place to be from. It's a nice place to raise a family. But I'm never going to move back. Or under extreme protest if my wife decides she wants to move back to be by family. There's just nothing interesting about St. Louis. White flight ruined the city in the sixties and highway 70 divides the majority black population (north) from the majority white population (south). So it's basically a segregated suburbia wrapped around a lifeless inner core. No one lives in the city. They drive there to work, drink and watch sports. Period. I certainly wouldn't want to start a tech company there.

TechNewb 15y ago
Sounds like Atlanta, or any southern city. If Southern cities want to innovate they should at least try and create basic city public infastructure.
natesm 15y ago
> They drive there to ... drink Well, that's a little terrifying.
- ktsmith 15y ago
  Downtown has Laclede's landing, Busch Stadium, the James Edwards Dome, Scott Trade Center etc. There's other places that I'm forgetting, but that's a draw to down town for nights and weekends if you are into sports, drinking, and live music. I lived downtown while I was there and everyone I knew and worked with lived outside of the city and would drive in for work/events. I was only there for a couple of years over a decade ago so some of it has probably changed but I doubt it. It is probably one of the last places I would consider for a company and it's one of the few places I have no real desire to go back to.
- almost_usual 15y ago
  Welcome to the Midwest
15y ago

ChrisNorstrom 15y ago

Honestly... I've lived in St. Louis my whole life (other than collage) and recently went to Startup Weekend St. Louis as well as php and code till dawn meetups. I know only a few people, angel investors from Startup Weekend, community organizers and others who are really trying very hard to get something started here. But it's a very VERY tiny tech community. However, there are angel investors, mentors, startup weekends, and The Founders Institute just came to town so you'll probably get lots of attention. I call these passionate people "Queen Bees" because they are very generous and dedicated to turning St. Louis into a tech center. However, the problem I see over and over again in St. louis is are the lack of "Worker bees". These are the people that actually build companies and startups and do the work. There are very very few of them. And that is where the flaw of the St. Louis startup scene becomes very apparent. The Queen Bees here like the Arch Angels, Jay Delong, Brian Blanchard, Israel Vickers, & dozens of other community organizers are the warmest people you'll meet. They are amazing. They really want to lead this kingdom towards glory but for this whole "Tech Scene" to work there have to be worker bees and that's exactly what St. Louis is missing. It's like trying to build a Craigslist for Antarctica, or trying to build a Farmers Market in Death Valley Arizona. So in the event that your startup does grow, good luck finding talent. The mentality here is different. I went to PHP meetups a few times a while ago and the developers there literally didn't give a single "fuck" about any startup ideas, from anyone. They'd gather up every month, talk about stupid shit that "happened this one time..." then at the end ask each other what they should do the next meetup because chit chatting is boring. The idea that they could work on a startup that could change the world is completely over their head. They are oblivious to their own possible greatness. $50,000 grant for startups is a great deal for people who already live in St. Louis but a terrible deal for people who have a chance to move to the Bay Area. Getting a startup off the ground is hard enough, why make it harder by moving to a place where you have less oportunity and less people to make it happen? In the end you need to do what's best for YOUR startup and YOUR idea, not what's best for St. Louis. A startup is like a child you are raising, and if you want the best for your child, you pack your bags and move to an area with better schools, less crime, and better collages. Depending on the situation, the best place for your child and most startups is Silicon Valley. People who try to convince themselves otherwise are the type of people who either don't have the balls to move (like me), or are emotionally attached to their city (New Yorkers, Seattleans), or don't have the funds to move. There's lots of stories of people outside the valley making it but I bet you if they moved to the bay area they would have made it farther and faster than in their home town. Silicon valley is not a "place" but a certain type of "people". They are very intelligent, not always educated, bat shit crazy and hell bent on building something great. And Silicon Valley is FULL of them. They will fuel your startup's success faster and better than anyone else can. So if you're young and able to move, go to the Bay Area, if you're stuck in New York or St. Louis or Seattle because of family or emotional reasons. By all means take advantage of these deals and try to give back to the community so you can help others who are stuck in their home town too. BTW, check out the St. louis "code till dawn" meetup group for really chilled authentic developers. I myself desperately want to move to San Jose. I need to do it, but I'm an overly emotional Atheist and also cannot have kids. Basically, I will never raise a family of my own so the one I have now is the last biological family I'll ever have and I don't want to let them go. If my parents were to pass away while I was gone out west, I'd never forgive myself. To me there's no afterlife so you have to love those around you as much as you can while they are alive because there's no second chances after that. Emotionally, I think I'm stuck in St. Louis for a while... ;_;

allard 15y ago

If you're interested in moving to Saint Louis (or already there), and if you need a house, and if you are one or two, I have quite a place for sale in its best neighborhood. Comes with a great workspace. Contact via profile here.

medusa666 15y ago

I'm not sure that STL is a very desirable or interesting location for immigrants, particularly non-white immigrants, who are a backbone of Silicon Valley.

ArchGrants 15y ago
Hmm, I moved here in October from the Northeast. I was (pleasantly) surprised by the diversity in STL and that doesn't just mean great ethnic restaurants, though large immigrant and refugee communities have resulted in some great eateries. This is a city focused on embracing diversity. There are countless individuals solely focused on multicultural initiatives within the government and within civic organizations. Arch Grants is one of those groups that seeks to embrace a multicultural pool of applicants and award recipients because we want the startups we fund to reflect the diversity of St. Louis that is thriving especially within the startup community.

vnchr 15y ago

Hi guys, I posted this just to see if there'd be a reaction--and wow, there has been. I do some community organizing in the startup scene (see StartLouis.com) in addition to some work with startup legal, funding and incubating. I'll get the Executive Director Sarah Spear to more directly comment to the HN community about this. Also, I'm pretty well informed now on what's going on with this initiative and related ones. Hit me up for questions. Finally, please know that St. Louis, like any other place, contains diverse people with diverse goals. I have my own combination of concerns and confidence regarding Arch Grants. But bottom-line, it's a good thing and not a bad one. I'd love to chat about the concerns too. There's plenty of legit ones out there :)

athst 15y ago

They've basically structured it as a business plan competition, not a startup competition. Not sure what kind of businesses they were looking to attract with this, but it doesn't seem very well suited to what we tend to think of as a "startup."

vnchr 15y ago
Agreed... It is based on the format of a BPC. The guys writing the checks are old school, old money ;) I've talked to them about next year incorporating Lean Methodology. Executive Director is open to it, but for now, they're off and running with plenty to do.

mvkel 15y ago

To me, this is like paying students to attend class.

ArchGrants 15y ago
This is the last comment I noticed on this post so I'm going to address it. Full disclosure: I'm the aforementioned Exec Director of Arch Grants so I'm a tad bit biased. In an effort to enhance St. Louis' entrepreneurial ecosystem, Arch Grants is awarding $50k + immense support services (free legal and accounting services, reduced commercial and residential rent, business mentoring, access to university support, etc.) to startups. Like Israel pointed out, there are challenges with the model that we're addressing but perhaps more importantly, we're asking ourselves, "can we attract tomorrow's entrepreneurs to St. Louis by providing unencumbered grant funding?" Your comment hints at the fact that entrepreneurs will be doing what they do best, whether we fund them or not, similar to how students have to attend class anyway. As we see it, why not throw our support behind those entrepreneurs and fund their efforts in hopes that the funding leads to successful companies?